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Dagzar June 20th, 2009 9:41 AM

Is there any genre/mood/literary device that you just can't bear to read?
Yeah, quite a few, though the biggest would have to be pregnancy / babies. It’s the most giant turn-off for me and whenever I see it, especially if it involves the main character, I drop the story instantly and try to erase it from my mind. Another giant turn-off for me is angst. I can read angst in small doses, but when it gets dumped on me over and over again, my mood drops and I ditch the story entirely. I don’t want to read a story where the main character is put through such bad situations and can hardly recover before being dropped into it again.

CyanideEspeon June 20th, 2009 11:41 AM

I am going to write a fanfic with me in it, and my Pokémon will match the ones I own in my games. But here's the problem, most of their names are unoriginal, like my Blaziken's name is Fire, and he was sent to Pearl from Emerald, and now his name is stuck like that! Many Pokémon I sent from Pal Park have unoriginal names. Another problem is my Umbreon named Shadow, who I don't want to lose happiness just because I have to trade him back to Pearl to change his name. I also have a Vaporeon named Aqua, a Jolteon named Thunder, a Flareon named Flame, a an Espeon named Cute Power (maybe that's OK), a Leafeon named Leafy, and a Glaceon named Icy. If I have to use such names and Pokémon in my fanfic, will you please forgive me? I only want to match the Pokémon that are from my games. I'll make up for the species and names of the Pokémon used by giving them a lot of personality. Another problem, I don't know what it should be rated. Death is mentioned, and a character will come close to dying, but it won't be all that bad, just emotional. I'll probably rate it PG with some warnings, would that work? And a character that isn't me will most likely have Pokémon with original nicknames.

I think I'll trade my Eeveeloutions to rename them anyway, so they'd fit in my fanfic. I used an English/Japanese online dictionary and entered the Pokémon's types to get these.

Basic-Seijou
Aqua-Gogyou
Flame-Kasi
Thunder-Dendou
Cute Power-San
Shadow-Sumizome
Leafy-Bokuso
Icy-Koori

How are these?

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 12:16 PM

We can fogive you for using those names, yes. Except perhaps Shadow. Hey, I'm doing a similar thing with the Pokemon on my Platinum. However, what immediately sets alarm bells ringing, for me at least, is this-

Quote:

Originally Posted by VelvetEspeon (Post 4767152)
I am going to write a fanfic with me in it,

This is called a self-insert, and is to be avoided at all costs. It's generally frowned upon in fanfiction to base a character off yourself. I mentioned earlier that I was writing a fanfic similar to this one. In that, I am not using myself as the Trainer, but Cassie, my in-game character. As such, I'm loosely basing her character off Hikari's, in anime canon. I can't write your fic for you, but I highly recommend you use an original or canon character.

CyanideEspeon June 20th, 2009 12:38 PM

Sadly, I really would like a character based off of myself. But I'll tell people if they don't like it, they should not read it. Or maybe, I shouldn't write anything...:( OK, that's settled. I am never writing fanfiction. Ever. Ok, maybe only for my family. They'd love it.

Dagzar June 20th, 2009 12:54 PM

Quote:

Sadly, I really would like a character based off of myself. But I'll tell people if they don't like it, they should not read it. Or maybe, I shouldn't write anything... Ok, that's settled. I am never writing fanfiction. Ever.
Don’t be like that. Having a self-insert main character doesn’t make the story automatically bad, it’s just that they tend to turn into Mary Sues, where everything goes their way. As long as you keep your character realistic with flaws and such, you should be fine. ;)

CyanideEspeon June 20th, 2009 1:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagzar (Post 4767379)
Don’t be like that. Having a self-insert main character doesn’t make the story automatically bad, it’s just that they tend to turn into Mary Sues, where everything goes their way. As long as you keep your character realistic with flaws and such, you should be fine. ;)

Ok, maybe I'll do it, then. But by everything going their way, do you mean things like winning every battle, getting whatever Pokémon they want, everyone likes them and hates the characters they don't like? Well, I doubt anything I write would be like that, seeing as I want to make the Cycle Shop Manager hate me, other Trainers having legendary Pokémon as well, and restricting the Pokémon I have in the fanfic to the ones I have in my games. Like, I can't have a Mew.

An example of some parts would be something like this:

"Velvet could not stand it. A member of Team Galactic is her friend, but no one excepts it besides her family and Pokémon."
"Cute Power was easily defeated by the attack."

Dagzar June 20th, 2009 1:24 PM

Quote:

Ok, maybe I'll do it, then. But by everything going their way, do you mean things like winning every battle, getting whatever Pokémon they want, everyone likes them and hates the characters they don't like?
Yeah, that’s basically what I meant.

Quote:

Well, I doubt anything I write would be like that, seeing as I want to make the Cycle Shop Manager hate me, other Trainers having legendary Pokémon as well, and ristricting the Pokémon I have in the fanfic to the ones I have in my games. Like, I can't have a Mew.
That’s good, but about the legendary Pokemon, you should think about why your character and other trainers would have them. Legendaries are one of a kind (usually) and considered gods among Pokemon, so make sure you have an explanation on why your characters would have them.

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 1:34 PM

Velvet, I'm not trying to discourage you from writing fanfiction, far from it. I'm just suggesting things that might make it easier. Oh, and this,
Quote:

But I'll tell people if they don't like it, they should not read it
is also something you should avoid. This is the most common excuse used by writers to avoid getting negative reviews. If you think people aren't going to like it, change it so that they will. The only time where this is used is when a fic has content in it that may be offensive to some people, such as graphic violence, shonen-ai, lemon, racism etc. You post fanfiction on the internet because you want people to read it and give you feedback. As a matter of fact, I recommend you read this thread and this thread before you even think about writing fanfiction. The second one is about reviewing, but there is some excellent advice for writers in there as well, including the reworded tips I have given you here.

Giratina ♀ June 20th, 2009 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkling Dragon (Post 4767271)
This is called a self-insert, and is to be avoided at all costs.

I can't exactly relate to this, seeing as a running gag in my stories is my self-insert minor character (a rather blatant insert, even going so far as to switch the perspective to first-person when she arrives). I think a better use would be: "This is called a self-insert, and should not be used as the main protagonist just to be safe." Sometimes they're livable when not especially blatant, don't feature as the main focus of the story, or even when they do reflect precisely the moods and actions of the person they're modeled after. It's perfectly fine to have a character based after yourself, as long as they're a good character with human characteristics. After all, relating with your character helps you get a better feel for them when you're writing about them, doesn't it?

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 3:49 PM

Well, you're right, Giratinasaur. As a main character was what I meant. For a joke, it's fine.

Giratina ♀ June 20th, 2009 3:53 PM

As long as you reflect all of your character as a person into the fic character - bad as well as good - and treat your Author Avatar as just another character with the same luck/skills/what have ye as any other character, it should be just fine.

CyanideEspeon June 20th, 2009 4:00 PM

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I only renamed my Umbreon, since I like the name Sumizome, anyway. Eeveeloutions and legendary Pokémon may be overused in fanfics, but I'll try very hard to give them interesting personalities. As an example, Sumizome will hate all wild Pokémon, and wants them all to be captured or destroyed. And Sumizome will go a little crazy and attack wild Pokémon once and a while, but would be stopped before he hurts them badly. And flaws about my character? Well, I will be easily annoyed, and I'll hate the Cycle Shop Manager with my entire heart. Isn't his name Ricksaw? I think I'll check Bulbapedia. And there will be another main human hero, incase you get sick of me. I'll also explain the legendaries as they appear. And there will be more than one of each Legendary involved, too. But that will be explained, seeing as the concept of alternate timelines will be involved, and in the fic, the Pokémon world will be disorted in some places, although not visible. But it would be difficult to know what people/Pokémon came from which timeline. Also, the real world will be mentioned, but I doubt it'd play much of a role in my fanfic.

Giratina ♀ June 20th, 2009 4:17 PM

That all sounds extremely interesting and fun to read, with the whole alternate continuities business. Maybe your fic should take place in a dimension that's sort of a crossroads for all of the other ones, so that it doesn't seem too strange that all of these characters not even from that dimension just suddenly start popping up. Also, you might want to put a disclaimer at the beginning of the fic stating that you do not believe there are only one of each species of Legendary. It might stop some people from complaining about it.

Good luck to you!

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 4:35 PM

Yes, because some reviewers are annoyingly narrow-minded. Yeah, try the Reviewing and You thread I linked you to before for advice on how to deal with reviewers.

CyanideEspeon June 20th, 2009 5:26 PM

Well, I'm starting my fanfic, but there are quite a few breif explanations on where the legendary Pokémon I own came from, and they are boring. I guess I'll introduce most of my legendaries later, so you won't have to read all of those tiresome explanations all at a time.

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 5:28 PM

Do you have a beta reader?

CyanideEspeon June 20th, 2009 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkling Dragon (Post 4768233)
Do you have a beta reader?

Not really. I wonder if I need one or not.

Giratina ♀ June 20th, 2009 5:36 PM

No story 'needs' a beta reader, but in all honesty they're almost guaranteed to make your story better.

CyanideEspeon June 20th, 2009 6:29 PM

The disclaimer thing would be important, because in this fic, my Palkia is female.

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 6:36 PM

Yes, beta readers are incredibly useful, and a good one is an invaluable tool for any writer. Although I must admit that I don't have one, but that's only because I'm eternally, incurably, destructively egotistical, so you shouldn't really listen to me. In other words, do as I say, not as I do. ^_^ There's a thread somewhere where you can request a beta.

Giratina ♀ June 20th, 2009 6:38 PM

Bah, genders.

My in-fic Giratina is female.

CyanideEspeon June 20th, 2009 6:46 PM

From my fic:

Quote:

The Lost Tower is a gloomy and miserable place on the inside.
Any good?

Giratina ♀ June 20th, 2009 6:51 PM

Hmm.

Well, I think you could have shown it, rather than told it. Something more like...

Quote:

Zero walked into the Lost Tower, shivering.

Nearly tripping over a fallen tombstone as he entered, Zero [did and observed stuff that shows exactly how gloomy and miserable the TOWER is].

"This place is... miserable," he muttered.
i don't know. I pulled it out of nowhere. The point is, don't just hand us the facts up straight like that; when possible, like for describing a certain mood of a building, try to add some action in and let the character come to a conclusion about whether it was gloomy and miserable or not. Heck, the character could be a super-pessimist who's convinced the world is going to end on his eighteenth birthday and views the place as a shrine to the future or something!

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 6:51 PM

For description? Hmm . . . I'd say put a lot more in there. Like, you could spend half a page describing the Lost Tower, and at the end of it, your reader would be left with this really creepy, ominous feeling, if you'd done it right. Then you can proceed to pull out the Ghost Pokemon and scare the pants offen them. But you're just asking if it's any good. Any good at what? That sentence makes a lovely chocolate brownie, but I doubt that's what you mean.

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 7:25 PM

That . . . sort of came out of nowhere. Firstly, though, this is the wrong forum. This is Pokemon Fan Fiction. Try Other Writing for non-Pokemon-related challenges.

CyanideEspeon June 20th, 2009 7:39 PM

Here's another part.

Quote:

Sumizome seized his horrid growling and politely nodded in reply to his trainer’s question.
So, are these good words to use?

JX Valentine June 20th, 2009 7:50 PM

Backpedaling like whoa~! ♫

Actual Mini Topic
Is there any genre/mood/literary device that you just can't bear to read?

Gonna agree on the note about moderation. In small doses, every genre is fine to me. It's when some of them (like fluffy romance) go to ridiculous degrees that bothers me. Even mindless humor is fine if I'm drunk and the writer actually knows how to write mindless humor. However, Dude, Where's My Car? (and two hours of basically Ashton Kutcher) will make me want to smash my head against something hard.

Oh. Wait. That's a lie. There's one genre I usually like to avoid. High school fics. I don't know why you kids like taking one of the most miserable and awkward periods of your lives and force it on the entire cast of Pokémon, but it's never been my cup of tea, sorry to say. It's not because it was the most miserable and awkward period of my existence. It's because I can only guess if you guys actually realize how boring high school actually is. I don't know about you, but all romances I've seen happen in high school lasted about a month tops. And the classes? Yeah, seriously, guys? It's even more boring than you're actually portraying it. I mean, even if you are a geek, aren't most of you watching the clock every period?

On the other hand, I have a sneaking suspicion that some of you aren't actually high school students and that your best exposure to high school life was High School Musical. At which point, I'd just like to say that Disney movies nowadays kinda suck (but this is just my opinion).


Anyway...

The Other Topics

On Names: Actually, believe it or not, naming a Blaziken Fire is probably more creative than abusing a Japanese-to-English dictionary (which often doesn't tell you the connotations of each word, meaning whatever you use probably doesn't mean exactly fire or just fire), especially if it's true to the character (i.e., you, if you grew up in the Pokémon world) to do so. To be honest, we get a lot of either sparkly names (like Pyros) or Japanese names (like Mizu for a Water-type) in this fandom, so actually going back and calling something extremely simple is not only amusing but also something different.

As in, if you were worried about this, then you really shouldn't be embarrassed. It gives your character... well, more character. However, do whatever you think you'd personally feel comfortable with, considering this is you.


On Ratings: Depends on how gory the death is. Blood and violence usually garner you a PG-13 rating; descriptive gore is either M or R. For saying something along the lines of, "Oops, someone died" infrequently is fine for PG so long as you put up warnings in the first post, yes.


On Self-Inserts: Pretty much what Dagzar said. Not all self-inserts are bad, and really, for more experienced reviewers, we can look past it.

However, it should be noted that it's not necessarily true that everyone loves a Mary Sue. (If you need a better definition, Wikipedia actually has it.) A Mary Sue could be hated by people for no apparent reason or, sometimes, because the author wants to portray those people as bad. Really, a Mary Sue is all about dodging logic and making the canon around them warp to their liking. It's a vague definition, but it's one of those things that you know when you see it.

To avoid it, the good/bad traits Dagzar mentioned is one part of it, as is just generally remembering that you're human too. I wouldn't mention a flaw or an ability unless they come into play somehow. For example, if you're afraid of spiders, that's great and all, but it doesn't keep your character from becoming a Sue unless you use it somehow. If you had your character lose an extremely important battle because he was facing an Ariados, then that's a step in the right direction. And then, if you have your character react the way you would if your friends told you off for letting your fears get to you, you'd have a non-Sue/developed character. So, yeah, it's not just in the traits. It's also in how you use them.

(That easily annoyed bit should be interesting to see in play, at least.)


On Beta Readers: Yes, it's highly recommended you get a beta-reader. They can not only help work out problems, but they can go over bits with you and tell you how you're doing in the production process if you get a notably patient one. In other words, basically, you've got someone who will take time to personally work with you, so you don't actually have to reveal parts of your story to the general public in order to get opinions as to whether or not a part works. (Not that we mind, but it depends on whether or not you're the kind of person who likes to keep your work secret until the moment you post it to avoid overemphasizing the hype. Also, it's really not recommended to have us go over every line in your fanfic. Really, occasional "hey, does this sound good" or "hey, I have a specific question about this" is kosher, but personally, I'm not sure if asking us to go over lines like this is a good idea, considering it's really what a beta or your reviewers should be doing. You're basically putting your fic line by line into the FFL, and there's no specific question we can answer here to help give you an idea of what to do in the future.)

The thread Sparkling Dragon's talking about, by the way, is over yonder.


On Description: Don't spend half a page describing a place. *facepalm* Seriously, don't. A paragraph or two should be sufficient but not one line if you're establishing a setting. In other words, find a place between one extreme (one line) and the other (half a page or more) for a balance. Giratinasaur's example (providing you fill in the details of what Zero is doing) is a good jumping off point.


In the meantime...

Quote:

Sumizome seized his horrid growling and politely nodded in reply to his trainer’s question.
Protip: Homophones are little bastards. Always know what the words you're using mean.

That said, he seized his horrid growling? You know that "to seize" means "to grab" and that growling is an intangible sound, right? Not to be biting or anything. You may mean "ceased" ("to end") here, however, which would make this sentence okay. (Personally, I think it might sound better if you said "nodded politely" to place the verb against the conjunction and make it consistent, but it's grammatically sound either way.)

Basically, that sort of thing is why you'll probably want a beta-reader. Spell check just doesn't catch things like that because you're technically using real words. A beta, however, usually can.

Good luck, either way.


Also...

Quote:

Your challenge is to write crossover fanfiction combining Murphy Brown and 4chan. The story should use good characters becoming evil as a plot device
This is the next 7Day7K prompt.

Shrike Flamestar June 20th, 2009 7:54 PM

VelvetEspeon, as has been alluded to by the previous posters what you have done with that sentence is to essentially "tell" the reader the setting, rather than "show" it to them. While the sentence would be fine if you added further description of the tower following it, as it is we get the idea that it's gloomy and miserable yet we don't know why. What about the tower makes it so gloomy and miserable? Is it just really dark inside or is there something else, such as the presence of deceased spirits?

Additionally, just saying that it's gloomy and miserable doesn't really convey that atmosphere well to the person reading. Even if you manage to tell us exactly why it's gloomy and miserable, without actually making the reader feel as if it's gloomy and miserable the writing simply isn't as effective. This ability to impart a certain feeling to the reader is called tone, and while it can be hard to perfect it's certainly one of a writer's most valuable assets when describing a particular setting. Without it you'll find your writing is bland and monotonous, and it can be hard to "show" the reader the scene if the reader constantly feels like they're reading legal papers and not an actual story.

I wrote this up in a few minutes as an example of what I mean. It's perhaps a bit, um...excessive but it should show you what I mean. Pay attention to how much detail I put into the scene, and how through those details it can actually make you, the reader, feel as if they're in the scene through the tone that I convey.

Quote:

The boy named Shrike slowly walked up the steps leading to the ancient structure. Only the slightest of breezes blew past him, but even that was enough to send the various bells and chimes that hung from the tower's eaves into motion. Nervously, the boy stopped before the large doors that led into the tower, looking back over his shoulder at the setting sun. It would be dark soon, but he had made a commitment to take the journey to the top of the tower.

Calming himself, Shrike placed his hands on the tower's doors. A chill suddenly ran down his spine as, in just one single moment, he felt his mind reach out and touch the spirits of the countless deceased Pokemon who were honored within the tower's halls. Brushing the feeling away, he slowly pushed open the doors and stepped past them into the building's shadowed interior. As Shrike walked down a dimly-lit hallway, stopping every now and then to examine barely-legible plaques that lined the walls, he progressively felt a feeling of dread and discomfort settle over him. Adding to the gloom mood within the tower, it was lit not by electrical power but by flickering candles. To the mind of the boy, the shadows of the flames seemed to hold a hundred ghosts in silent waiting, ready to submit the intruder to their schemes at any moment.
Don't feel bad if you're having a hard time getting used to this stuff. It personally took me at least six years to develop my writing to a decent point, and no one expects you to learn everything in a day. Take your time and, if you find it helps, look around these forums for well-written fics that you can learn from. Sorry if this didn't help much, I'm not the best teacher or anything...

And as for your second excerpt which popped up while I was writing this, you have some word usage problems. The word "seized" can't really be used in relation to a non-physical thing such as growling, as seizing something implies that someone grabbed someone, probably more violently than if they were to merely grab it normally. Something can also seize up, in which case they've stopped whatever they were doing, again in a rather violent and abrupt manner. It's this other definition which I am assuming you got mixed up on. While it is true that something's growling could seize up, implying that they suddenly stopped growling, you can't actually seize the growling. You could stop the growling, or the growling could seize up, or as a sort of compromise the growling could cease.

Don't shy away from using "common" words such as stop, or halt. While you could use more "fancy" words such as seize, if you use them too much it will simply make it sound as if you're using those words only because they're fancy and not because of any meaning or tone they convey.

And goddamit, Valentine, when did you start writing that? I swear, I am posting this now before I can be ninja'D again!

Dagzar June 20th, 2009 7:55 PM

Quote:

Sumizome seized his horrid growling and politely nodded in reply to his trainer’s question.
Well, it's hard to tell since it's only one sentence, but here's what I think. The only problem with it that I can tell was that it took me a few minutes to decipher what you were trying to say in the first part. Maybe you should re-word it? Other than that, it's a fine sentence, but as said, there's not much to go on.

EDIT: I knew I should have refreshed before posting! <_<

JX Valentine June 20th, 2009 8:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrike Flamestar (Post 4768598)
And goddamit, Valentine, when did you start writing that? I swear, I am posting this now before I can be ninja'D again!

Half an hour ago. :D The only reason why I knew about those newer posts was because I stopped in the middle of it to go check on something and found that three people (including Velvet) ninja'd me. *fistshake*

But now I'm done editing.

Also, I'm lazy, so I'm just going to say "word" to that entire post, including the bit about common words and showing instead of telling (which would also be a word to Dagzar for an earlier post).

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 8:11 PM

Sorry, Jax, I was exaggerating when I said half a page. And the description necessary/preferred varies. I mean, has anybody here read Christopher Paolini. There's so much description, internal dialogue, narrator voice and background it's just not funny. As a result, he ends up with this intricate, fantastic world with deep, explained tendrils, but a character asking a question on page one might get an answer halfway down page three. Which is why I never finished Brisingr.

If you're describing a person, they will need a few lines of description. A building may need a few lines more. A city may need even more than that, a couple of paragraphs even. And intersperse description with action, so it's not so boring. Instead of talking about sharp cobblestones in the road, have your character step on one and get pissed off. Evolution taught us a lot of things. One of them is that we need to adapt to our environment. This extends to writing. Different genres need different things. I write across many genres, so I have to adapt. When I write horror, (yes, I write horror. Don't look at me like that) I use graphic, descriptive violence.

Spoiler:

When the PokéBall was destroyed, Charmeleon had been halfway through the process of being converted to energy. When the process was interrupted, Charmeleon had essentially been half within the PokéBall, and half without.

That scream was the last sound Charmeleon ever made, for immediately afterwards, his body realised he was dead and shut down all systems. Well, all systems that were left. In horror, Mac saw that Charmeleon’s left leg, and a good chunk of his torso, were missing, presumably having been sucked inside the PokéBall. Blood was flowing freely from the gaping wound.


Ick. I felt sick while writing that. It's not as graphic as it could be, but just picture it in your mind. *shudders*

Likewise, other genres require other writing techniques etc.

JX Valentine June 20th, 2009 8:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkling Dragon (Post 4768628)
Sorry, Jax, I was exaggerating when I said half a page.

It's cool. I probably should have realized you were exaggerating, but at the moment, I'm actually really tired. And yet, I'm not going to bed yet. Go figure.

Quote:

I mean, has anybody here read Christopher Paolini.
I keep telling myself I'll someday get past the prologue of Eragon. I mean, sorry to the fans, but... yeah. Not my cup of tea. It reminded me of Harry Potter, only... longer.

I suppose there could be worse. Anne Rice once described a set of curtains for a paragraph (if I recall correctly). On the other hand, I was sort of skimming Blood & Gold because I was trying to get past the angsty bits and get to the dirty bits. Tip to anyone else out there, but don't try skimming the angsty bits of Blood & Gold. Even the dirty bits are angsty.

And that is probably not that bad compared to Twilight, if only because at least the vampires in Rice novels roast. In Twilight, not only is it angsty vampire smut, but it's also high school fic, so...

So, in other words, maybe I should stop ranting about books before I go any further and make half the internet want to tear me apart. And then throw me into a fire. Because that's what the Cullens do at the end of Twilight, so.

What were we talking about again?

Shrike Flamestar June 20th, 2009 8:38 PM

And here is some more words for you all. Just call it a supplemental to my last post or something.

Is there any genre/mood/literary device that you just can't bear to read?
Not really. Despite everything I've alluded to in the past I can't stand hardcore sex (aka, lemons) but that's about it. Romance in general can get on my nerves but if it's done well and not thrown in your face with the force of a cannonball, it's okay. Extended periods of elated happiness can also get on my nerves somewhat but that's just because I'm really an angsty emo at heart.

Seriously.

Names! My main character is named Shrike Flamestar. Flamestar! Dear god it's the worst thing I've ever thought up. It was even worse before, though. Blade Flamestar. Yeah, I should just shove Shrike under the carpet and pretend like he never existed and change names to Tashima Navara (main character of my second fic, TRINITY). But TFC has always been my main fic and always will no matter how awesome I think TRINITY is. ;_;

*Coughs*

Yeah, I also have a Typhlosion simply named Havoc in TRINITY, as well as one named Inferno in a private piece of writing. I'm not exactly one for creative Pokemon names and so can't fault others. TFC can be somewhat deceptive with names such as Matariel and Jehiel, but then you also have Fury and everything goes down the drain again. The only truly original Pokemon name I have is Zethro. All those other fancy names that all end in -el are just angel names that I got off the internet and which do, actually, play a part in the plot.

Ratings! For my ratings, I generally go by two things foremost: the tone and setting of the story, and the gore level. And yes, that's two and not three because I said so. Deal with it. The plot also plays a part of course, as well as minor details such as swearing and references to alcohol/drugs. TFC has a largely normal setting, but can get dark in places. Due largely to one of the evil organizations being an anti-Pokemon cult that violently kills Pokemon whenever they can, I don't want to rate it any lower than PG-14 so that I can ensure that none of the young kids who come here are tempted to read it. Additionally, it has some swearing and some rather gruesome depictions of blood and gore, so I bump that up to PG-15 to be on the safe side. Taking it even further I explicitly mention this stuff when I give the rating, so that readers will know ahead of time what they can expect.

On the extreme end of the spectrum is my new oneshot, Haunting at the Old Chateau, which I really need to write the second part for as well as add a link to my sig. Its setting is very dark and very creepy due to its intended horror genre. The largest aspect, however, is the incredibly gruesome depictions of death through some rather sadistic means. As I intentionally wrote those scenes to be as gruesome as possible and due to the fact that they are central to the fic, I bumped that one all the way up to R on violence alone.

Mere mentions of death and close calls, however, would likely merit no more than PG-13 without special circumstances. If nothing else in the story is really that bad, than simply PG could work just fine. It you do have blood and stuff (such as through more realistic battles) though, than PG-13 might be worth considering.

And don't you get me started on gore, Sparkling Dragon. You've read my HatOC fic (I'm never using that abbreviation again. It's aweful), and might I tell you that what I wrote there didn't even faze me as much despite what others have said about it. Being cut in half due to the destabilization of what was reforming them? Please, I see that on TV.

Now, when was the last time you saw something being run over by a friggen' lawn mower on TV?

Oh god I so need to get back to that story. I, unfortunately, have bigger priorities right now though. And they don't involve gore, so sorry. Well they do involve robot guts (ie, circuitry), but I don't think that counts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valentine
This is the next 7Day7K prompt.

Awesome. Maybe that'll be enough to drag me out of my slump and get me to write! Or maybe I could stop replying to this thread and just get to working on TRINITY like I had meant to when I first sat down at the computer and started playing Ghost in the Shell music. God this music is good, and pretty much the best thing I can listen to when trying to write a story inspired by GitS.

But nooooooo, instead you people, and I use that term very lightly with some of you, make me go and write droves of stuff in this thread instead. I swear, haven't we been through this before? I'm pretty sure that I'm supposed to hate everyone here and so aren't supposed to reply to this or, for that matter, any thread.

And I was ninja'd again but said ninja post HAS NO RELEVANCE TO THIS ONE, SO HAH!

Astinus June 20th, 2009 8:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranana_atroro (Post 4768506)
Your challenge is to write crossover fanfiction combining Murphy Brown and 4chan. The story should use good characters becoming evil as a plot device

Your challenge, if you choose to accept it, is to not be a troll in my section. Go bother another staff member.

...

I would respond to things that are actually on-topic, but I'm ignorant when it comes to writing.

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 9:32 PM

For Arceus' sake, Astinus. [/shuts up]

Jax, curtains?

Anyway, going on from what I was saying before . . .

Jokefics require light banter and quick wit, both of which I fail at.
Spoiler:

“Hey, Maxie?”

“What is it now?”

“Want to play I Spy?” Maxie turned to stare at the other man with an expression of disgust on his face.

“No, scum, I do not want to play I Spy!” The other man was quiet for a minute. Then,

“Maxie?”

“WHAT?” Maxie whirled and glared at him. The man cringed slightly, but continued.

“How about...Noughts and Crosses?” Maxie had to resist the urge to throttle the other man.

“No, damn it!”

Out of all the cellmates in the world, they just had to give him Archie of Team Aqua, didn’t they?


Deep, philosophical fics on the meaning of life or what it means to be a Pokemon Trainer require deep, thoughtful prose, complex language (err...) and . . . deep stuff that makes you sound like you know what you're on about when in reality you have no effing clue.

Spoiler:

“I challenge you to a battle!” There they were, those six magic words. A simple string of syllables, spoken in the right sequence, was all they really were. I knew that. But to me – and, I’m sure, to every other Pokémon Trainer in the world – those words were the most important ones on the planet. They defined me. As a Pokémon Trainer, that’s what I do; I battle.

As a Pokémon Trainer does battle, he is carrying on an ageless tradition. Nobody really knows the origin of Pokémon battling. Some say it has been happening since the dawn of time. More practical souls suggest it started when Pokémon and humans first met. I say it doesn’t matter. The battle is an endless cycle. Trainer and Pokémon, Pokémon and Trainer, melding into each other, becoming indistinguishable from one another. Not physically, but mentally. When a Trainer and his Pokémon are in perfect sync, it is as if their minds become one.

Spoiler:

Hesitantly, Cynthia reached out a finger to touch the first letter. The cool stone sent a shiver down her spine as she traced her fingertip around the groove. Then the next, and the next, until she had finished the first word. Friend. Dropping her hand from the stone, Cynthia wondered. That one word, that solitary word, held so much meaning, so many lessons, combined in just six letters. It was a warning to everyone, telling the whole world to keep their loved ones close. It was a lesson, emphasising the frailty of life. It was a reassuring reminder that no matter how empty the world seemed, you were never alone. It was an island of warmth and familiarity in a cold, strange world.


And that's just the start of it. Those examples were all written by me, yet each is different and unique in its style.

Would this fit in the Reviewing and You thread?

*Takies shameless opportunity to advertise* Would anyone actually be interested in reading the above horror fic?

JX Valentine June 20th, 2009 9:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkling Dragon (Post 4768757)
Jax, curtains?

Yes, my dear. Curtains. They were purple, if I recall correctly.

...Which, now that I think about it, is astoundingly hilarious and brilliant if I wasn't mistaken.

But it's been several years since I've read the book (which I no longer have, and I can't remember what I did with it), so it's likely that this passage doesn't exist. However, if one read Rice's work, one wouldn't be surprised if it does.

Quote:

Would this fit in the Reviewing and You thread?
Hmm. I thought this was what part of your earlier guide was saying, but if it's something else and I'm just overly tired (Why am I not in bed yet, kids?), then go for it.

Astinus June 20th, 2009 9:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkling Dragon (Post 4768757)
For Arceus' sake, Astinus. [/shuts up]

:(

Sorry. But I don't think the excuse of "I'm eating meat off the bone like a caveman so I can't type right now" would have flown.

But the honest truth is that I can't explain anything that I do. I learn how to do something, and what works for me, and when it comes time to explain how I do something, it just doesn't work. I get stuck.

So it's just easier to say that I don't know how to do something than to run through the "I don't know how to explain a thing" story. Because the first just makes it seem like I just don't know how to do it, so I get left alone. The latter makes me seem really selfish.

But that's just how I am. I know what to do myself, but sharing tips is something I literally can't do. (This is why I can't work on a team either, because I'm stubborn enough to just not bend my ways to work with another person.) It doesn't matter what the task is either. I have my way that works for me, and that's it. It's unexplainable.

That's me, with my faults and issues, and I know how to handle 'em. I say I don't know what I'm doing right up front instead of getting trapped trying to explain something and waste everyone's time.

Like, with how much description is too much. I know the answer, but explaining how I know that, and how much description is necessary is something I can't do.

-

If you were talking about the deleted post, I really don't have a high tolerance for trolls, especially when my sections always get hit by trolls. :(

-

Also, let me just slap a disclaimer on this post saying that I'm so tired, I don't know how to keep my thoughts straight anymore. (I almost called my dog my Internet name, and they're not even close.) Plus, I've been sick.

So that's another reason why I appear to be rather ignorant about things, because I sound like I don't know anything while talking, and I can't keep a thing straight.

On the plus side, one more week and VACATION!

JX Valentine June 20th, 2009 9:58 PM

If anyone's curious, I just checked (via Google Books, thank you), and the passage does not exist. However, I was thinking of this one, which involves a half a page rant about hair that begins with curtains.

So, the lesson is, don't talk about the flipping curtains, guys. It makes you go off on weird tangents.

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 10:02 PM

I can see purple curtains becoming the next FFL meme . . .

Oh, and I call dibs on the 9,999th post in this thread! =P

Astinus June 20th, 2009 10:08 PM

Then let me announce...

LET THE SPAMMING COMMENCE!

And the person who takes Sparkling Dragon's 9999th post will be smacked by my mod stick. =P

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 10:09 PM

You have a mod stick?

Cool. Me want one. Oh, and . . .

PURPLE CURTAINS!!!!!

bobandbill June 20th, 2009 10:12 PM

Astinus... I think you need that vacation. =P (So do I, and I'm not getting it anytime soon, but that's besides the point - you need a break from sanity!) Get better soon though - that is, if you haven't already.

Mod sticks are the shizz, yo. But no, you can't have one. =P

I'd say something useful...but I'm too busy with this darn Cathode Ray Oscilloscope sassignment. D=

Astinus June 20th, 2009 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobandbill (Post 4768868)
Cathode Ray Oscilloscope sassignment. D=

I really need a vacation.

This was the funniest thing I have read today. XD I don't know why. But it's just Oscilloscope!

OSCILLOSCOPE!

...

OSCILLOSCOPE! :D

My mod stick is rusty though. :( I need to clean it someday.

JX Valentine June 20th, 2009 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astinus (Post 4768856)
And the person who takes Sparkling Dragon's 9999th post will be smacked by my mod stick. =P

...Is this a promise, dear?

Astinus June 20th, 2009 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valentine (Post 4768903)
...Is this a promise, dear?

Yes.

And then I realize who I'm responding to.

ANARCHit3cht June 20th, 2009 10:25 PM

GR, I am gonna jack it. I hereby yoink the spot form Sparkling Dragon.

...
Screw it, I'd much rather sleep than steal the post.

Astinus June 20th, 2009 10:41 PM

x3

If I didn't think I would get in serious amounts of trouble, I would post constantly until the 9999th post. Only because I'm not going to "bed" for another three hours.

But I have to be in work early tomorrow. So...I can't.

Misheard Whisper June 20th, 2009 10:43 PM

Let's go!

I dunno why I said that. Anyway, I just posted my first ever fic! Go have a look, then come back and shoot me. I can't believe it. According to the old thread on BMGf, I have been writing fanfiction for six months as of the Tuesday just gone. OMG.

Lash June 21st, 2009 12:22 AM

@Sparking Dragon: I shall post a review of how much I liked it on your profile once I'm done reading it. And I shall read it once I'm done writing the first chapter to the fanfic I'm writing, haha.

Anyways, new question time.

Do you prefer to write at night or during the day?
I like to write during the night. I just don't know why, but I don't like writing during the day, unless I have something good to continue writing on that was written at night.

Misheard Whisper June 21st, 2009 12:26 AM

Do you prefer to write at night or during the day?
Chaptered fics at night, oneshots any time. I cannot sit down and write chapters during daytime. I also like to write at 6am.

Lash June 21st, 2009 12:29 AM

Oh hell, Sparking Dragon, I just did a count, and if you and I are the only ones posting, I will be the one ending up with the 9999th post! D:
lol yes, I read.

Eh, I'll just delete the post with the question when the 9999th post time comes/near the time or something, unless someone else posts.

What do you like to do with your surroundings when you write?
I like to just sit down on my bed with the radio on, maybe the fan on high. And, the door closed.

DassenSupes June 21st, 2009 12:31 AM

Feelin good about my story right now. About to go begin Chapter 3.

(for the love of god someone read the new chapter)

Giratina ♀ June 21st, 2009 5:45 AM

Do you prefer to write at night or during the day?

The majority of Metal Coat was written at night, and for my skill level at the time it was pretty good. However, I have currently started dragging around a notebook in which I write first drafts of new chapters for other stories (as opposed to actually paying attention in class)which are usually heavily revised when I get home and type them up.

So I'd say my ideal writing time is from four PM to ten PM for chaptered fanfictionry, and very late at night for oneshots or really stupid-sounding sings with mounds of inside jokes...

JX Valentine June 21st, 2009 6:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkling Dragon (Post 4768979)
Anyway, I just posted my first ever fic! Go have a look, then come back and shoot me. I can't believe it. According to the old thread on BMGf, I have been writing fanfiction for six months as of the Tuesday just gone. OMG.

You know, this is sad. Your first fic wasn't even a year ago. My first fic was in 1998.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to drink myself into a stupor for feeling old. Even if it is eleven in the morning.

(Is there anyone else on this thread who started writing before we even got word on this side of the globe that there was going to be a second generation? XD)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lash (Post 4769154)
Do you prefer to write at night or during the day?

Night. I'm usually doing stuff during the day, while at night, I'm usually half-awake and coming up with WTFery in terms of fic ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lash (Post 4769169)
What do you like to do with your surroundings when you write?

If I'm not in my dorm room (i.e., back home), I'm at my desk. There's no (reliable) outlet on my bed's side of the room, and anyway, it's just more comfortable. If I am in my dorm room, I'm always sitting on the bed with my legs stretched out under my laptop and my back sandwiching a pillow against a wall. It's really all about comfort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DassenSupes (Post 4769172)
(for the love of god someone read the new chapter)

I only review if the author reviews my own work due to the principles brought up here. (In fact, even if it's underused, you could always try using that thread.) *thumbs up*

This may also explain why I haven't actually touched the review requests I've gotten just before heading down to Florida a couple weeks ago. Well, that and one of you decided to ask me to review a 50+-page work. ._.

(At which point, yeah, if you're reading this, I'm sorry. If I don't get to it before the last post turns a month old, you're free to smack me.)

Dagzar June 21st, 2009 7:59 AM

Do you prefer to write at night or during the day?
I write at 9:00 every night, though I sometimes write during the day too, but that’s rare.

What do you like to do with your surroundings when you write?
Not much that’s different from my usual surroundings; headphones on (music not), door ajar and window opened depending if I’m too warm. Though, I do close all my extra web browsers so they can’t continue distracting me.

Bay June 21st, 2009 10:01 AM

Do you prefer to write at night or during the day?
I'm a little weird, actually. During the weekdays, I would write at night. During weekends, however, I would write in morning, afternoon. Don't know why. :O I guess it's because during the weekedays I would have a lot of stuff to do relating to school, work, and life, but weekends I would decide to write first then study later. XD

What do you like to do with your surroundings when you write?
Usually listening to music and a drink of water or cream soda for me. XD

Venia Silente June 21st, 2009 10:26 AM

And then I come back for a while.

Do you prefer to write at night or during the day?
I prefer to write during the night, only because I have more time for me and me only. During the day I have to be available for other people and that is too much of a distraction to me when it comes to writing.

What do you like to do with your surroundings when you write?
I just sit somewhere in my room (yes, somewhere in my room) and let myself loose to think about the things I want to write. When it comes to actually writing, I put in a news channel or a series channel where they're featuring repeats so I don't get distracted, and limit myself to listen to the TV (without watching) while I write. It somehow helps me focus.

Everything goes up to eleven if Mota, my lovely cat, comes to my room and demands some petting. She does so by jumping to my lap and stretching there, purring and looking at the keyboard tentatively. Once she flats her ears and loses her eyes, she won't get down, so I'm locked at the PC and forced to write anyways... :D


LET THE SPAMMING COMMENCE!
O'key! :D

Because we ALL LOVE s-p-a-m, right? I mean, this is the Lounge...

DassenSupes June 21st, 2009 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valentine (Post 4769859)
I only review if the author reviews my own work due to the principles brought up here. (In fact, even if it's underused, you could always try using that thread.) *thumbs up*

This may also explain why I haven't actually touched the review requests I've gotten just before heading down to Florida a couple weeks ago. Well, that and one of you decided to ask me to review a 50+-page work. ._.

(At which point, yeah, if you're reading this, I'm sorry. If I don't get to it before the last post turns a month old, you're free to smack me.)

In a month, I expect it to also be 50+ pages.

Misheard Whisper June 21st, 2009 12:21 PM

LET THE SPAMMING COMMENCE!

Spamspamspam.
Not. When I write, the door must be closed, only one light source, no noise. Having nobody else in the house helps, too.

Astinus June 21st, 2009 12:45 PM

Do you prefer to write at night or during the day?
There's such a thing as daytime?

Day is when I sleep, so I write everything at night.

What do you like to do with your surroundings when you write?
I write anywhere, at any time. I write while sitting on the floor, in restaurants, in the grocery store, in bed, at my desk, in my bed, outside on my swing, in the car. So I never really have a set "surrounding" to write. I just stop where I am, write, and keep going.

The disclaimer about the "writing in the car" part is the fact I haven't gotten my car yet.

Shrike Flamestar June 21st, 2009 12:57 PM

Hey guys, what's up?

Oh hey look at that, 9999.

Oh, and when I write I do nothing special. I put on music, sit at my desk and...write. Yeah. This post is so not spam and you know it.

DassenSupes June 21st, 2009 1:37 PM

I'm the best number though.

Writing a short story tie-in for a PokeBeach contest, anyone mind beta reading it for me?

Venia Silente June 21st, 2009 1:39 PM

...And NINJAED!!!!

Knowing how things turn out to be, like this, you know, 10000th reply instead of 1000th post. I hope it is as equally as important, right?

Nothing that we do is spam, people. Chainsaw chanseys, S-P-A-M, the count to 10000, Writer's Lounge The Musical (what ever happened to that?) and things like that, it seems to be the everyday life of Writer's Lounge posters.

And taking to more serious grounds I do have two questions.

How much time do you people spend on the Writer's Lounge? Is it an important (time-wise) part of your PC XP?

The other is more writing related. I am going to release a piece of work, something small that I wanted to write originally for the 7K7D but I fail at that so... whatever. The point is, I'm going to describe a human from the perspective of a Pokémon that has never seen one and shouldn't have to begin with (...part of the story). I thought about relating the description to that of some anthropomorphic Pokémon like Mr. Mime, but what I'm suddenly having trouble to describe is the aspect of clothing. I mean, it would be like talking about a strange mostly bald creature that somehow can retrieve, attach and detach variable "hide" or something like that at will. And that is capable of neatly organizaing such hide... the problem is, the Pokémon shouldn0t know what a human is and henceforth (I think) doesn't know abouth clothing. The best this Pokémon can do is to compare the situation to something he knows and use terms that are familiar to itself (such as refering to the arms as "branches" and to shoes or gloves as "scales"). I just can't make it say that the hide is "leather-like", can I?

So... do I try to pick up words that make the description sound like it would be trying to describe some armoured Pokémon (like Armaldo or Golem for the comparison), retorting to the most basic terms I can to show that in fact the Pokémon does not know how to describe this creature? Can I resort to something like describing plainly, stating surprise (and distrust) and simply leave the matter alone after that?

Giratina ♀ June 21st, 2009 1:53 PM

What do you like to do with your surroundings when you write?

Whenever I'm writing, I'm in one of two places: at my desk in the kitchen of our house, ignoring the rest of the world with my super-comfy $35 heaphones and talking to my Ho-oh plushie for inspiration (occasionally), or at school scribbling in a notebook in the hallway/while waiting for the rest of the class to catch up.

How much time do you people spend on the Writer's Lounge?

I refresh and lurk a lot, but I haven't started posting until very recently. So not very much.

Is it an important (time-wise) part of your PC XP?


Time-wise, yes. Discussing-writing-stuff-wise, yes.

JX Valentine June 21st, 2009 2:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DassenSupes (Post 4770620)
In a month, I expect it to also be 50+ pages.

That's nice.

Seriously, though, okay, but to be honest, I usually don't read longer work unless it's mindblowingly good. (Hi, Giratinasaur. Incidentally, I'll review Metal Coat; soon. There's a few things I'd like to say there, and don't worry, not all of them will make you want to crawl away and cry that's not a bad thing.) It's not that I'm saying I don't read longer work. It's just that with all kinds of things that's keeping me busy right about now (including my own projects), I just don't have time. If I catch it early, then I might keep up with it, but as it stands... *motions to her highly egotistical reviewing policy*

Edit: Of course, it should be noted that, it's quality over quantity either way. Saying that your fic is over 12k words with only two chapters actually intimidates some people. In fact, the stated reason why some people haven't kept up with AEM is because its first chapters are fairly long. (Not quite obscenely long, but still of considerable length.) Some people find that to be a turn-off, or they simply feel the need to stop and go do something else for awhile but can't because they're looking at long piece of text.

Also, I'd hate to say it bluntly, but the fact that you're advertising your length (in your sig and in here) makes one think that you're overcompensating for a lack of decent content. Granted, I have yet to do much more than skim your work, but I'm just saying you could use better advertisement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrike Flamestar (Post 4770985)
Hey guys, what's up?

Oh hey look at that, 9999.

ILU, Shrike. Let's go make...

...Cupcakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by solovino (Post 4771112)
How much time do you people spend on the Writer's Lounge? Is it an important (time-wise) part of your PC XP?

I live here. GTFO of my house!

Seriously, Writer's Lounge is one of four forums that I visit on PC daily, with the other two being PFF&P itself and the Pokémon RPG forum + subforum. I don't really know how much time I spend here. It's a lot, though. I like the refresh button. It and I are homies.

Quote:

I just can't make it say that the hide is "leather-like", can I?
Actually, if it's like leather, you might be able to. Otherwise, you're on the right track. Because the Pokémon doesn't know what human items are, it would probably see the colorful things coating a human's body as an extra skin with odd textures and colors. You might be able to say shell, coat, pelt, or other animal-esque words, depending on what the Pokémon in question is. (Some Pokémon, like a Steelix, might see it as flimsy armor.)

But to better answer your question, unless it's actually leather, I'd say just go with "hide" and then describing textures, colors, lengths, and placement. For example, a pair of jeans might be a rough, blue hide covering the human's legs that's flexible enough to allow for the human's movements.

Describing it in this manner might be confusing to the reader, but on the other hand, it'll force the reader to look at the human from the Pokémon's perspective (which you seem to want), which in turn would make the fact that it's a human a bit more surprising when the human reveals that fact themselves.

Not sure if that helps or otherwise answers your question. Still, I'd like to say I'm interested in what you're doing with this description. Good luck, solvino.

Giratina ♀ June 21st, 2009 2:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valentine (Post 4771255)
If I catch it early, then I might keep up with it, but as it stands...

Um.

When you reviewed last time, there was only one chapter and the epilogue before it was over. Which means that it's actually complete by now. Metal Coat is a pretty short fic.

And, just to keep on-topic, yeah. I remember using 'pelt' about six times in the second chapter, just to make the description drag on as long as I could without it sounding ridiculous. xD Like Valentine said, you probably wouldn't use 'leather' or 'leathery' because it's a term used to describe something that in its current state was man-made, which a Pokemon with no knowledge of humanity should know nothing about. Perhaps 'rough' or 'sturdy' would be better?

Misheard Whisper June 21st, 2009 3:00 PM

Damn, I missed 9999, 10000, and 10001.

Bugger. That's what you get when you go to the doctor's.

DassenSupes June 21st, 2009 3:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valentine (Post 4771255)
That's nice.

Seriously, though, okay, but to be honest, I usually don't read longer work unless it's mindblowingly good. (Hi, Giratinasaur. Incidentally, I'll review Metal Coat; soon. There's a few things I'd like to say there, and don't worry, not all of them will make you want to crawl away and cry that's not a bad thing.) It's not that I'm saying I don't read longer work. It's just that with all kinds of things that's keeping me busy right about now (including my own projects), I just don't have time. If I catch it early, then I might keep up with it, but as it stands... *motions to her highly egotistical reviewing policy*

Edit: Of course, it should be noted that, it's quality over quantity either way. Saying that your fic is over 12k words with only two chapters actually intimidates some people. In fact, the stated reason why some people haven't kept up with AEM is because its first chapters are fairly long. (Not quite obscenely long, but still of considerable length.) Some people find that to be a turn-off, or they simply feel the need to stop and go do something else for awhile but can't because they're looking at long piece of text.

Also, I'd hate to say it bluntly, but the fact that you're advertising your length (in your sig and in here) makes one think that you're overcompensating for a lack of decent content. Granted, I have yet to do much more than skim your work, but I'm just saying you could use better advertisement.

I understand. I advertise length for a show of my dedication. I don't fluff out these chapters. These are things that I write freely and the length simply ends up as a necessity.

All I ask is that you read what I have right now and then, you can decide if its worth keeping up with. All I'm saying about length is that I poured a lot of effort into it, and I'm, at the very least, no shallow writer.

Venia Silente June 21st, 2009 6:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valentine (Post 4771255)

Actually, if it's like leather, you might be able to. Otherwise, you're on the right track. Because the Pokémon doesn't know what human items are, it would probably see the colorful things coating a human's body as an extra skin with odd textures and colors. You might be able to say shell, coat, pelt, or other animal-esque words, depending on what the Pokémon in question is. (Some Pokémon, like a Steelix, might see it as flimsy armor.)

But to better answer your question, unless it's actually leather, I'd say just go with "hide" and then describing textures, colors, lengths, and placement. For example, a pair of jeans might be a rough, blue hide covering the human's legs that's flexible enough to allow for the human's movements.

Describing it in this manner might be confusing to the reader, but on the other hand, it'll force the reader to look at the human from the Pokémon's perspective (which you seem to want), which in turn would make the fact that it's a human a bit more surprising when the human reveals that fact themselves.

Not sure if that helps or otherwise answers your question. Still, I'd like to say I'm interested in what you're doing with this description. Good luck, solvino.

Very special thanks, Valentine. Also thanks to Giratinasaur.

Well, I think to better check that what I'm doing is at least a bit right, the best option is to post some fragments and ask for review, right? I'd hate to create a new topic only for this (because it would be short-lived, I don't think that's the idea), and because offtopicness is our motto and I am in need of some... err... bashing :D, I'm going to just "hijack" the Lounge for a while...

The basic idea that I wanted to explore comes from the Sinnoh myth. The specific one that states that Pokémon made a truce (or something to that effect) to help humans, and hat's why they appear in the wild. So, what does that mean for a Pokémon that does not know what a human is, most specifically, fossil Pokémon?

If one of these is revived cloned, I guess the first problem would be that such a Pokémon existed in a different environment, maybe the current environment is not adequate for them. I'm not going to explore that right now, instead I'm focusing on a corollary problem: if the Pokémon retains knowledge (be it instinctive or otherwise) about the fact that their kind ceased to exist, or that they existed before humans, and they are informed that they belong to a human and are expected to serve him, do they hear the call to duty? Are they bound to this duty to begin with? How do they interpret the fact that human is a creature so different?

So I wrote a story about a ????????? (a Fossil Pokémon) who has found itself under care of a human and ponders about his own purpose and usefulness, as well as why has he came to existence way beyond others of his kind.

For the description of the "humans", I focus on this caring human not only from the perspective of the Fossil Pokémon, who tries to describe in terms that he feels natural to what he knows about his kind's environment, but also support myself in opinions from other Pokémon under the care of the human. Any actually human perspective is absent.

So, for example, I have this first fragment where Mr. Fossil tries to describe the general appearance of the human specimen (I guess from the wording of the description, some of you will be easily able to identify the cloned fossil):

Spoiler:

I was once taught that this is no Pokémon, is a creature called human. This particular specimen that now takes care of me is what the others call Trainer. I was surprised to see this kind of creature: a two-legged land-dweller, less hateful and distasteful than the others, covered in a flexible, pale brown-ish skin pierced at places by some short pointy scales, with a prominent tubular-like trunk supported by its two thin and long legs that give it an extremely eerie and fragile appearance, and a round had, almost unattached from the body, to top it all.

The creature has this little trick, they can armour itself by covering parts of its body with several kinds of hide, of different make, colouration and textures as well, in a form that I've come to understand offers both protection and a means of identification. Depending on the hides, a human can look more outrageous, playful, courting, woeful, or even look more "nothing" at all, as some kinds of hides renders them difficult to distinguish in the environment.

I've seen Trainer's unarmoured frame a couple of times, however, and it is the most impressive. From the top of the trunk, two long branches flow to the sides extending below the point where the legs and the trunk join. These branches are as thin and long as the legs are, and are ended in five small appendages that I once thought were tentacles, but better resemble simple, bendable and unclawed fingers just like most land-dwellers have; one of them in each end seems to be misplaced or twisted around, bending counterwise with respect to the others, as well as being thicker and shorter. One of the other Pokémon explained to me that this twisted finger has quite flexible and unrestricted movement and human are very proud of it, sticking it out and showing it to others of their species when they are proud of their accomplishments.

On top of the trunk lays what I guess is the head, a round-shape bulk separated from the trunk by a very short tube that I guess is the neck; unlike the rest of the apparently bald body the head is covered by lots of the pointy scales at the top, countless dark blue ones some of them as long as the head is tall. Other specimens present a different scale colouration, as well as several arrangements and amounts of it, and I even met once a human with no head scales at all.

The head of the human seems to focus their sensory systems, as it not only harbours two eyes of liquid-like blue colouration with prominent dark marks in their center (protected by two large and thick sections of pointy scales), but probably the respiratory and digestive systems as it features a clearly identifiable mouth, quite small in proportion to their overall body size and protected by a thick, pinkish layer of skin. I haven't taken the time to pick it up well, but it seems human have no fangs, instead just two large rows of identical white-yellowish teeth inside their elongated mouth. What does that mean about human predatory habits I haven't managed to understand, since I've never seen any of them hunting or doing anything that resembles such activity to begin with.


Opinions?

As for the clothing, before describing the actual clothes I've decided to take a new approach and try to have the Pokémon describe the storage tool and the procedure the human uses to switch hides. Watch this and give me your opinions.
Spoiler:

This particular human I've witnessed to perform the hide-switch. Most of the times when it happens is inside his chambers. He does dislodge and remove his outer hide piece by piece using his unclawed fingers, then sticking it to a sort of tree and exchanging it by other hides of different colour, and probably of different materials too according to the circumstances, that he proceeds to cover his body with, encasing parts of his body inside them and locking them to each other by different means.

I haven't been able to identify what kind of tree is this that grows the hides or why does it grow these hides, as I can smell and feel with my appendages they're definitively not made of wood or fruit; but I am sure that as weird as humans are, the tree also is, yes: as it has a rectangular trunk instead of a tubular one, and is completely hollow on the inside, allowing the hide to literally grow and hang inside the tree, plus it has no visible leaves and the roots do not even penetrate the ground, instead they kinda curl in, forming large wooden lumps.

The sight of the human essentially ripping the bark open, switching the hides, hanging the removed ones indide the tree, and ensembling the trunk again, is one of the most horrendous things I've ever experienced, outside of my dreams that is, in particular because of the screech the bark seems to emmit some of the times it is ripped apart, and because the tree does not seem to bleed or suffer otherwise. Which would mean (and it scares me to think about it every single time) that the tree can cry despite being already dead...



I would be glad to count on your opinions people. Just because trying to write this has proved to be quite funny and liberating to me.

JX Valentine June 21st, 2009 8:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giratinasaur
Um.

When you reviewed last time, there was only one chapter and the epilogue before it was over. Which means that it's actually complete by now. Metal Coat is a pretty short fic.

Yes, but you're a different case because your fic was actually interesting, and anyway, you started off as a beta client. I admit I wouldn't have normally gotten into it. I don't mean to be high and mighty about it, really. It's just that it takes a lot to get me to sit down and actually read through over sixty pages of material on the computer in almost one sitting, particularly if it's not for class anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DassenSupes
I understand. I advertise length for a show of my dedication. I don't fluff out these chapters. These are things that I write freely and the length simply ends up as a necessity.

All I ask is that you read what I have right now and then, you can decide if its worth keeping up with. All I'm saying about length is that I poured a lot of effort into it, and I'm, at the very least, no shallow writer.

The amount of work you put into any sort of fiction has no relationship to the length of the piece itself. I've read forty pages of utter crap that the author slapped together because he thought he'd impress me with its length through filler and flowery prose, and I've read the most intense and riveting two-page ficlet that paid so much attention to the detail of the characterization and action in such a short space that by the time I got done reading it, I felt like I just made out with Angelina Jolie. The point is length doesn't prove a damn thing to me. Yes, it proves that you're dedicated enough to sit at the computer for hours on end, constructing your prose and selecting the best words to tell your story. However, if that's all you have to go on instead of a summary even in your sig (or in the conversation you and I have been having right about now), I'd hate to tell you this, but that's not good.

Point is, instead of telling us how long your work is (which is a very obvious statement that anyone could see themselves by scrolling down), my suggestion is to tell us about the story itself. Yes, I know you just said you don't fluff out your chapters, but let's face it. You're telling us you've got a story you've poured your heart and soul into, and you're sitting here, telling me how many pages you're about to reach through posts and how many words you've got done through your signature? You're selling yourself short, regardless of how much you try to tell me you're not.

And I don't mean to be at all insulting towards you. You seem very eager, and you apparently have people who like your work as it is. However, I'm just saying if you want to get more people to read your work (namely, the die-hard reviewers and critics) in this world or the professional one, you've got to learn how to advertise yourself properly. Either that or perhaps start thinking differently about your work because your advertising in your sig and the sales pitch you've given me seems to encompass nothing that should be relevant to how good the story actually is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by solvino
The basic idea that I wanted to explore comes from the Sinnoh myth. The specific one that states that Pokémon made a truce (or something to that effect) to help humans, and hat's why they appear in the wild. So, what does that mean for a Pokémon that does not know what a human is, most specifically, fossil Pokémon?

If one of these is revived cloned, I guess the first problem would be that such a Pokémon existed in a different environment, maybe the current environment is not adequate for them. I'm not going to explore that right now, instead I'm focusing on a corollary problem: if the Pokémon retains knowledge (be it instinctive or otherwise) about the fact that their kind ceased to exist, or that they existed before humans, and they are informed that they belong to a human and are expected to serve him, do they hear the call to duty? Are they bound to this duty to begin with? How do they interpret the fact that human is a creature so different?

So I wrote a story about a ????????? (a Fossil Pokémon) who has found itself under care of a human and ponders about his own purpose and usefulness, as well as why has he came to existence way beyond others of his kind.

For the description of the "humans", I focus on this caring human not only from the perspective of the Fossil Pokémon, who tries to describe in terms that he feels natural to what he knows about his kind's environment, but also support myself in opinions from other Pokémon under the care of the human. Any actually human perspective is absent.

I definitely like the idea, but I can't help but wonder what the canon perspective of the revival of fossil Pokémon actually is. If the revival process is through the extraction of DNA from the fossil and the creation of a new Pokémon from it, then the Pokémon would probably retain no memory of ancient times, which means this all would be a moot point because the only memories it'd have would be of humans. If the revival is through a miraculous reverse-fossilization, then that's a different story. Which one are you going with, out of curiosity?

The description's not bad for the first draft. (You're probably going to clean it up a bit later to get rid of the smaller things, like "and a round had.") You might want to separate the description in the first paragraph into separate sentences, though. You've got so many commas all over the place (separating items from a list, separating parts of a parenthetical, et cetera) that it might be easier for the reader to get a clear image of what they're seeing.

Quote:

with several kinds of hide, of different make, colouration and textures as well, in
Only one of these commas is necessary: the one after "make."

The weird thing about the description of the fingers, by the way, is that you also mention that they resemble unclawed fingers, so it's like you're saying that they resemble exactly what they are.

The note about the first paragraph of the first excerpt also applies to the first one of the second excerpt. I had to read it a couple of times to get what you were trying to say because you lost me partway through. It might help if you separated it into one or several sentences -- perhaps separating the part where he undresses from the one where he dresses (or at the word "and," in other words). I'd also suggest finding a way to get rid of the word "then" in both parts because it's rather awkward. Superficial reason, yeah.

Quote:

as I can smell and feel with my appendages they're definitively not made of wood or fruit; but I am sure that as weird as humans are,
Semicolons serve as a replacement for a common-conjunction combination, so having a conjunction here ends up being redundant.

Also, replace the colon with a period here. It turns into a run-on if you leave it in.

But other than the nitpicks, it looks like a good start. Just work on the flow of the narration by splitting some of these into separate sentences, and it should work all right.

¡Chucho! June 21st, 2009 9:33 PM

Quote:

I felt like I just made out with Angelina Jolie.
I don't understand this simile, but I bet it means something absurd.

Now that I've glanced at the story Blak, not through the reply box this time, the paragraphing is rather thick. I guess I'm saying it'd be more tolerable if it was just long instead.

Misheard Whisper June 21st, 2009 9:40 PM

Quote:

I've read the most intense and riveting two-page ficlet that paid so much attention to the detail of the characterization and action in such a short space that by the time I got done reading it, I felt like I just made out with Angelina Jolie
Can you point me to this? It sounds like the author is one talented person. Then again, the idea of making out with Angelina Jolie . . . *shudders* Really, Valentine, I'm not sure if you were complimenting this fic or dissing it (for want of a better word, my brainsaurus isn't working right now).

EDIT: I left this too long, and got double ninja'd.

DassenSupes June 21st, 2009 9:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valentine (Post 4772526)
The amount of work you put into any sort of fiction has no relationship to the length of the piece itself. I've read forty pages of utter crap that the author slapped together because he thought he'd impress me with its length through filler and flowery prose, and I've read the most intense and riveting two-page ficlet that paid so much attention to the detail of the characterization and action in such a short space that by the time I got done reading it, I felt like I just made out with Angelina Jolie. The point is length doesn't prove a damn thing to me. Yes, it proves that you're dedicated enough to sit at the computer for hours on end, constructing your prose and selecting the best words to tell your story. However, if that's all you have to go on instead of a summary even in your sig (or in the conversation you and I have been having right about now), I'd hate to tell you this, but that's not good.

Point is, instead of telling us how long your work is (which is a very obvious statement that anyone could see themselves by scrolling down), my suggestion is to tell us about the story itself. Yes, I know you just said you don't fluff out your chapters, but let's face it. You're telling us you've got a story you've poured your heart and soul into, and you're sitting here, telling me how many pages you're about to reach through posts and how many words you've got done through your signature? You're selling yourself short, regardless of how much you try to tell me you're not.

And I don't mean to be at all insulting towards you. You seem very eager, and you apparently have people who like your work as it is. However, I'm just saying if you want to get more people to read your work (namely, the die-hard reviewers and critics) in this world or the professional one, you've got to learn how to advertise yourself properly. Either that or perhaps start thinking differently about your work because your advertising in your sig and the sales pitch you've given me seems to encompass nothing that should be relevant to how good the story actually is.

Okay then.

It's a more realistic re-interpretation of the original Red and Blue story, without becoming GRIMDARK DARK GRIMGRIMGRIM DARK. It's full of surprises and sometime almost utter derailings of the original plot to make it feasible, so anyone who even knows the original story by heart can enjoy it. It also focuses on increasing Team Rocket's presence as a constantly working force to everything that happens in the plot. It has moments for every kind of mood, from darker, moodier moments to lighthearted fun. I'm trying to deal with every important character on their own journey where no one starts or ends perfect, but at least 'improved'. I try to make all the small moments as epic or large in scale as I can. The first route, leaving home for the first time, etc.

That's all that comes off the top of my head. I'm not a regular pic writer. I am an English major, writing a Pokemon story for practice for my real book, choosing this because I have a fondness for Pokemon. It's a good place to start!

Venia Silente June 21st, 2009 9:59 PM

Angelina Jolie???????? Hey, I don't know if it's you or me or heck everyone here who has issues... :cool:

Back to subject...

Quote:

Originally Posted by valentine
Quote:

Originally Posted by solovino
some problem

some solution

Excellent, excellent! That's why I love slave labour collaborative creation!


Buoysel who is my Beta Reader has advises me to practice my commas so of course that is one of the parts I'm checking next, I just wanted to post the unedited version (two compiled excerpts from my failure at a 7K7D) to check that the characterization was going the right way.

For the whole "description of human" part, I'm planning to split it into three parts: the first is the corrected version of the first spoiler, the other two handle behaviour and I'm going to mix'em with the reaction from the other Pokémon The whole "dress/undress" thing feels awkward to describe, but I could not think of a more mundane (to the reader) yet at the same time unexpected (for a Pokémon) line of action that I could tap into. I can't do outdoors action, because being a fossil Pokémon in its first days it'd rather be kept in a controlled environment.

With regards to your question on the fossil canon, it's one of the points where the myth comes to affect. At least, that's how it is planned to be.

I'm sticking with reconstruction based on a well-preserved DNA sample because it allows me to exact the sense of "fossil" that I want. No "Lazarus Command", no Max Revive, no Insert Coin. Just a clone/adapt kind of process. Of course, up to eleven.

I'm taking on the concept that, if the DNA sample was so complete as to retain information about the biology of the subject, it should also have stored basic instinctive information, as well as a sort of genetic memory, maybe a natural sense of "relative correctness" of the things the Pokémon can feel, for example: given its natural environment, things such as metals, glass or flying may feel oddly placed, or even "incorrect" to it.
This will lead the fossil Pokémon to acquire the sensation that something is "wrong" with its existence after a short time. From instinctive information to "flashes" of the mind is just a step which is brought via the myth: clone or not, it still has a soul, and the soul comes with a list of Things To Be Done, to put it somehow.

I guess that whole bit of information above is better implied than explained, so I'm looking for a way to have the "unnaturalness sense" described, as I can't have the human scientistss explaining the mumbo-jumbo. So I've thought to put it in more natural words by having someone else explain directly to him.

I'll have a "higher force" attempt to make the reconstructed Pokémon aware of the pact between Pokémon and humans, thus putting the Myth into motion. The higher force essentially pays a visit and lands a crash course on why the fossils are fossils and why humans came next (I'd say there's no one more appropiate to teach, as a fossil-reconstructed Pokémon has no parents or relatives, and the species being extinct the individual can not have a sense of their history unless it is described to him by someone who knows).

Now, I personally dislike havung Legendaries in my work, except for reference, because of the "they are busy taking care of the Universe" approach, but this time I'm making an exception as I feel it is one of these cases it is justified a Legendary may want to interfere in human affairs. Humans have managed to go something funny after playing with Godlike powers after all. I'm taking note that I haven't even begun writing that part and I feel like I'm going to regret it and feel dirty. So maybe I'll post that next time and you people can help me.

Oh, yeah, if I go this way that means I must describe the crash course. I'd rather take a "lecture" approach if that concept really works with what I'm trying to demonstrate - the reverence of the fossil Pokémon towards the visiting "deity". Then some contemplation, maybe some action, and the final claim, moral of the story, aesop or whatever that better finishes the story.

With regards to the writing itself, the major work is, as you pointed out, to recheck my weaknesses and do more progress on the work. Some details went and slipped past me somehow, such as the "unclawed fingers" thing which I guess is the result of the same misfocused attention that caused my "person as a body" impasse the first time I published here. It happens some times and is one of the main issues I need to work upon to evolve to a simpler, more obvious writing structure.

I have had some trouble looking for the most natural terms to use by the fossil Pokémon, so I'm waiting to check the fingers thing until I have written the whole description of the human, faulty as it will be - that way maybe completing a new part gives me the inspiration or the extra information to use better terms and will be better able to decide what goes in and what does not. I see now that I missed the nose, yet it doesn't seem like I'll need it, for example.

Hey, look at that, a Wall-o-Text... Aurincha is gonna kill me.

I'm always looking for people who can recheck my work and give me pointers.
And I'm not afraid to Wall-o-Text excerpts and opinions and to poke veterans and mods if I can help (I try and refrain BTW :D ) -- Viva la mè!

Yeah, I like this place because posting my ideas here somehow adds to me +3 Mood EVs. There, I said it, so what?
Oh and thanks again for taking the time.

JX Valentine June 21st, 2009 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ¡Chucho! (Post 4772621)
I don't understand this simile, but I bet it means something absurd.

Actually, she's the hottest woman I could think of that people knew about. I could've said Gina Torres, but I don't know if anyone actually knows who she is.

But yeah. I'd tap Gina Torres. Doubly so if it actually happened on board Serenity, and she was in-costume. (Tell me I'm not the only one.) So, I guess the fic was like making out with Gina Torres.

Maybe Nathan Fillion, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkling Dragon (Post 4772638)
Can you point me to this? It sounds like the author is one talented person.

Unfortunately, it's a locked LJ entry.

I can, however, offer you something equally hot, but it's smut. Astinus puts up with a lot of crap from me, but handing out "refreshments" to minors is probably not something she'd appreciate.

Quote:

Then again, the idea of making out with Angelina Jolie . . . *shudders* Really, Valentine, I'm not sure if you were complimenting this fic or dissing it (for want of a better word, my brainsaurus isn't working right now).
For the most part, yeah, bad analogy, although I kinda thought she was hot in Mr. and Mrs. Smith and Wanted. Basically, anything where she's shooting something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DassenSupes (Post 4772643)
It's a more realistic re-interpretation of the original Red and Blue story, without becoming GRIMDARK DARK GRIMGRIMGRIM DARK. It's full of surprises and sometime almost utter derailings of the original plot to make it feasible, so anyone who even knows the original story by heart can enjoy it. It also focuses on increasing Team Rocket's presence as a constantly working force to everything that happens in the plot. It has moments for every kind of mood, from darker, moodier moments to lighthearted fun. I'm trying to deal with every important character on their own journey where no one starts or ends perfect, but at least 'improved'. I try to make all the small moments as epic or large in scale as I can. The first route, leaving home for the first time, etc.

Sum that up in a few lines and replace every instance of the use of word count or page count with it, and you've got a less pretentious ad for a fanfiction.

As it stands, I'm looking over your fic now. There's a lot of things I have to say about the style, but it's best if I hold my tongue about it until I finally finish the review.

Quote:

I am an English major, writing a Pokemon story for practice for my real book, choosing this because I have a fondness for Pokemon.
You're in good company. That's why I'm being as harsh as possible. It's unfortunate, but in order to sell a book to a publisher (or, even before then, to an agent), you need to know how to, well, sell the book. What you end up doing is the equivalent of applying for a job. It involves a bit of kissing up and a lot of knowing what you're trying to pitch. Editors are extremely busy people, so in order to stand out and make a publishing house (that isn't just a self-publishing means like Lulu or a vanity press... like Lulu) actually want to take your work, you need to know what parts of your story would interest them the most.

Then, of course, in advertising decently, you're also learning how to sell your book to the audience as well. But this is a given.

As for the content itself, fanfiction is a good way of practicing writing, regardless of what the elitists want you to believe. It's just that there's some problems that need to be polished up a bit, but you'll see what I mean once I finish.

DassenSupes June 21st, 2009 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valentine (Post 4772673)
Sum that up in a few lines and replace every instance of the use of word count or page count with it, and you've got a less pretentious ad for a fanfiction.

As it stands, I'm looking over your fic now. There's a lot of things I have to say about the style, but it's best if I hold my tongue about it until I finally finish the review.



You're in good company. That's why I'm being as harsh as possible. It's unfortunate, but in order to sell a book to a publisher (or, even before then, to an agent), you need to know how to, well, sell the book. What you end up doing is the equivalent of applying for a job. It involves a bit of kissing up and a lot of knowing what you're trying to pitch. Editors are extremely busy people, so in order to stand out and make a publishing house (that isn't just a self-publishing means like Lulu or a vanity press... like Lulu) actually want to take your work, you need to know what parts of your story would interest them the most.

Then, of course, in advertising decently, you're also learning how to sell your book to the audience as well. But this is a given.

As for the content itself, fanfiction is a good way of practicing writing, regardless of what the elitists want you to believe. It's just that there's some problems that need to be polished up a bit, but you'll see what I mean once I finish.

Oh lawdy. Good or bad things?

JX Valentine June 21st, 2009 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DassenSupes (Post 4772699)
Oh lawdy. Good or bad things?

A mix. It's coherent work (although you've got a few comma errors in the beginning), but the word choice and placement tends to be off. I suppose I could offer a sample of the review thus far. It's not the furthest I've gotten, but it should give you an idea of what kinds of problems I'm encountering already. (Note: The red part is not the original text, yes. It's actually a correction. This is how I usually handle betas. And even then, it's not the best suggestion, but I explain it further afterward.)


Quote:

Reflected in the full sinks, her eyes created a mirror image of depth.
First of all, by placing "reflected in the full sinks" after the subject, you imply that it's the predicate, rather than an adjectival phrase. Rearranging it like so makes it clear that you want the predicate to be "created a mirror image of depth."

Even then, I feel as if that's another awkward and convoluted description. The problem lies in the fact that you're implying she's seeing into her own eyes, when in reality, she's looking at the sink (which is also the object that's creating the mirror image of depth, not her eyes). Ergo, it's probably better to phrase this:

The full sinks reflected her eyes, creating a mirror image of depth.

That way, you get the correct meaning.

Again, be very conscious of the placement of your words. Yeah, it really matters where words are placed. As I've said above, the meaning of the sentence actually changed because you were using the right words at the wrong time. You seem to be leaning towards giving your description a poetic feel, but at the end of the day, if you don't use the right words at the right time, you end up with a mess of meaning instead of poetry.


Also, short nod to solvino with a no problem added in. I'll probably get back to you again when I'm more awake. I really should be heading off to bed as it is, but I'm too busy looking at images of Gina Torres.

Feign June 21st, 2009 10:27 PM

Funnily enough I am also planning on majoring in English (haven't declared it yet). But while becoming an author is a very interesting career, I don't want to be limited by just that.

I've noticed, in the way that I write, I tend to write in 3rd Person Omniscient and don't give much in terms of detail (especially in setting, unless if it is important and relevant).

Okay I'll ask a question this time around:

In terms of cliche ridden stories, or stories that are otherwise unoriginal, what is the greatest detractor for you, when reading those types of stories?

I know we can all put up with these stories to some extent, but sometimes there is that breaking point.

I'll give an example, I've read some Harry Potter stories, and the intro is okay, and otherwise the set up. Then suddenly Harry somehow goes back in time, and saves his parents from being murdered, and some how or rather it is happily ever after...

Okay, besides the wishful cheesiness that comes into full force in any genre... I'd still have to stop reading those stories, on a canonical basis... That is to say that changing the past like that, cannot happen... It's been shown in the third book... Of course I have to refrain from telling them from doing their research, because that would probably not end up being what I say (hiya Freud).

Talking about Freud, on a completely different matter, reminded me of a philosophy joke:

A patient went to go see his psychiatrist.

Psy: So how was the visit with your mother?

Pat: Oh, it was completely horrible, I had a Freudian slip.

Psy: Oh dear, what did you say?

Pat: Well, instead of saying "Please pass the salt." I said "You ruined my life you <explitive remark>.

---

Yes... I know that is not a Freudian slip, but that is only part of the joke...

In other news, apparently, my family (on invitation), has been invited to preview some television programs, that have not been aired anywhere in the world, and would like our opinion on it. The people who will be attending, will give their opinion on half hour segments, which may help to determine whether a broadcaster will air a show or not; so I think it shall be fun, and definitely interesting. (*Marks a big red X on the reality TV segment, as well as any police or hospital drama*)

DassenSupes June 21st, 2009 10:29 PM

Hoo boy. You are rather thorough.

But I suppose the most important question for me will be if you find it enjoyable. To me, this is all that matters. I am 'careering' to be a teacher. I have no aspirations of being a solo writer. I'll write this, and I'll write my book eventually. As long as I cna find people to read it, and they can enjoy it, I will be happy with it.

Feign June 21st, 2009 10:37 PM

Perhaps to coincide with your question, and perhaps of greater importance, is that if the story actually makes sense, from beginning to finish. I tend to see it that, a good story actually has a descent plot. I think as authors, the hardest thing to do at times, is convey our thoughts through writing, in attempt to make it as coherent as possible. It could be that it makes sense in our head, but does not, to someone else reading it. Is it just me or does essay writing pay off in the end? Oo >.>

JX Valentine June 21st, 2009 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DassenSupes (Post 4772730)
Hoo boy. You are rather thorough.

Edgar Allan Poe once said that in order to write a short story (or any kind of story, really), no word can be wasted. It's really, I feel, one of the most important lessons of writing you could possibly learn. The English language is beautiful, but it's a very petty mistress. Every mark of punctuation has its purpose; every word, not only a meaning but also an implied meaning. Because a writer relies on language to convey what's in their heads and therefore can't be reached or experienced fully by another person, nothing can be wasted in a piece. Wasting them might be overstating something, or it could be as simple as making a tiny mistake. Everything goes into the overall flow and mood of a story because the story is like a net, where every thread interconnects to form an overall meaning.

In other words, yeah, I know. A lot of people tell me I'm thorough. Some even say I'm overly thorough, which you've thankfully not done. It's just that some people just don't realize that it's the nuts and bolts of a story that make it what it is and that the tiniest error in the use of them can screw up an entire sentence, and that just starts a domino effect if it's a particularly important sentence.

Well, that, and copyeditors in real publishing houses love their red pens. I hope to be one of these people one day, if only because I really love the English language that much.

Misheard Whisper June 21st, 2009 10:54 PM

Please, Jax, do NOT get me started on Poe. We had to study The Pit and the Pendulum in class recently, and it was the slowest and thickest piece of prose I have ever encountered. It's even become kind of a 1011 (my class) meme. "Hey (blank), how many pages do you think it would take Edgar Allan Poe to write about (insert trivial everyday action here)?" "How many novels could he write about waking up in the morning and brushing his teeth?"

Not to mention his hilarious use of the phrase "I unclosed my eyes." I mean, what the heck, dude? What's wrong with 'opened'?

DassenSupes June 21st, 2009 11:01 PM

Well here you have difference in taste. Whatever criticism I receive, it will not be an absolute truth. It's a matter of opinion. Vanlen may love Poe, and you might hate him.

too short didnt read DIFFREN STROKES FOR DIFFREN FOKES

Feign June 21st, 2009 11:04 PM

Ooooooh, but wordy jargon is both my specialty and my hindrance:

The diminutive convalescence of proverbial causalities, culminate clandestine traumas into eviscerating nuances.

Misheard Whisper June 21st, 2009 11:19 PM

Oh, I assure thee, Feign. Advanced levels of communication are my forte. And yes, Dassen, I accept that everyone has different views, Valentine included, and I respect those views. I'm merely stating my views.

Feign June 21st, 2009 11:26 PM

Lol... reminds me of a time on another forum, where I got bored enough to start a thread where people could only strictly speak olde english.

But like the above, it is fun to mess with people's minds... As when I'd usually post like that, it was never in a writing forum XD

Misheard Whisper June 21st, 2009 11:35 PM

Well, I'm a Shakespeare fan, and it never ceases to amaze me how difficult some members of my class seem to find it to decipher the prose. I just love it. I was in Hamlet last year, and I've seen A Midsummer Night's Dream, Pericles, Prince of Tyre, and Taming of the Shrew performed. I got to represent my school in the Sheila Winn Shakespeare Festival as well, which was just great. We did Act IV, Scene V, I think, and we totally extracted the michael. =D Awesome.

DassenSupes June 21st, 2009 11:48 PM

Writing Chapter 3 right now...listenign to this--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PNQg8V2-74

No idea whats being sung, but I love the voice.

Misheard Whisper June 22nd, 2009 12:17 AM

Don't overwork yourself, Dassen. I churned out a chapter a day on my first fic, and it was a load of crap. I'm not saying yours is, but take your time.

And SQUEEEEEE 200 POSTS!!!!

DassenSupes June 22nd, 2009 12:19 AM

I don't write if it starts to feel forced. Don't worry.

Misheard Whisper June 22nd, 2009 12:24 AM

That's good. Some people . . . just don't know when to stop, that's all. =D

¡Chucho! June 22nd, 2009 3:15 AM

I don't think I make any sense at all right now, but let me ramble:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DassenSupes (Post 4772643)
It's full of surprises and sometime almost utter derailings of the original plot to make it feasible

Oh, it's no good for you to bother with non-vanity publishing. Publishers buy stories that are the most profitable. Sure, you may or may not have a plot twist that everyone would want to copy if you do get published, but that's a gamble, and it's not one worth taking.

But I don't really care about spoilers, since I'm just reading to waste time, and what matters are the details. You could have a plot about putting on a shoe but the story itself could be the most compelling thing ever, as long as he doesn't get run over by a bus because that's just dumb.

Point is, the small details are just important as the big ones asdfjioelkf i should sleep

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StrictlyFormula
http://news.ansible.co.uk/plotdev.html
I had a third link, but I can't find it.

JX Valentine June 22nd, 2009 5:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkling Dragon (Post 4772776)
Please, Jax, do NOT get me started on Poe. We had to study The Pit and the Pendulum in class recently, and it was the slowest and thickest piece of prose I have ever encountered.

Yeah, just because the man couldn't write prose (and he really couldn't -- do read the Fall of the House of Usher as well) doesn't mean he didn't know what he was talking about. His rules of writing short stories apply to pretty much every story written after his. It's just hilariously ironic that they don't entirely apply to his work when compared with material from today's writers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iChucho!
Oh, it's no good for you to bother with non-vanity publishing.

...What?

You'll want to know that people don't take vanity publishing seriously and that not too many people actually pay attention to what's being sold through it.

Also, the idea that non-vanity publishers like Random House will only take what's profitable isn't necessarily true. Just because you slap together a rip-off of Twilight that will definitely tickle the fancy of a mass of people because it's fashionable doesn't mean you're going to get a contract if it's a pile of crap. It's very rare that crappy books (like Twilight... or, if I may say so myself without offending certain people on this thread, Eragon) get published because those stories are typically the ones that get ripped apart. Sure, if you're a big-name writer (like Stephen King), you pretty much get published automatically, regardless of how skilled you actually are. However, it's possible that no-name writers with good books get something.

It really all depends on how good your agent is. Yes, your agent. The reason why not too many people get published is also because not too many people realize that most publishing houses nowadays don't accept work from anyone who isn't represented. Fact of life, really, but no one seriously sends a manuscript to a publisher without one nowadays. They used to, but now, those manuscripts actually get rejected. If you find a good agent, the agent will choose the best publishers for your book and pitch your story to them for you.

Ergo, to clarify, there are cases where good books get ignored for mediocre books simply because they'd sell. However, it's very rare that crappy books actually get through because editors usually rip those things apart and send them back with a post-it saying you suck. Likewise, there is such a thing as a good book that actually gets through to be published, and it's not entirely a rare occurrence. (The first Harry Potter book, for example. Subsequent ones -- particularly the last three -- were pretty much because J.K. Rowling's a big-name author.) It all depends on the people supporting you, and yeah, sometimes, that depends on luck.

But it's a hell of a lot better than settling for a vanity press, where you'll most likely be laughed at, given the fact that vanities are more or less a joke in the writing business.

So, please. Tell me you weren't actually advising someone who wants to become a writer that it's best to go with a vanity press.

To add, if you meant you thought it wasn't worth it to gamble with new plot devices because no non-vanity publisher would buy them without a mass of people who would already love it... seriously? And who do you think starts those trends? Magical, godly people who are always awesome writers? I'd like for you to go back and reread Twilight because let me tell you, Stephenie Meyer wasn't appealing to the kids who watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer or who read Anne Rice. Yes, it's a risk, but if you're a decent writer, you might as well go ahead and give it a shot. After all, Rowling wasn't an author when she started, and the fantasy genre was just one for kids and geeks. It sort of exploded after that.

tl;dr, WTF @ first paragraph, sorry to say. And, well, actually has nothing to do with the post you're quoting. A number of people would jump at the phrase "new and shiny," so he's advertising to the audience. Granted, it's no way to advertise to a publisher (because the editors will be the judge of that), but he's looking for readers.

Also, it should be noted that the TV Tropes article you're offering up amusingly only applies within a series or genre. As in, if you state your story is a genre, it probably will follow a certain formula, whether or not you're conscious or unconscious about it. (OTs usually do.) Likewise, in certain cases where the writers tend to be less-than-creative, episodes of certain shows will follow the same formula over and over again. However, if you're outside of a genre or if you're a decent writer (and I don't see any of the novels I mentioned above in this article), then it doesn't necessarily have to apply for you to be successful.

The second article, meanwhile, seems to be heavily sarcastic anyway. While it says that a lot of notable books rely on same plot, different names, it's not actually saying that all of them do it or that it's particularly recommended that you should do it, either. Unless you'd like to be the talentless hack he explicitly mentions in the last paragraph.

If this isn't at all what you meant, I apologize, and do feel free to clarify.

Doctortux June 22nd, 2009 8:04 AM

I made a new series of fanfics called the Aggron Saga. I am done the first one so check it out and comment on it. I will be making more in the future.

txteclipse June 22nd, 2009 11:01 AM

For the love of Arceus, people, stop being so fickle. It takes you guys a week to generate a page of responses, and then I leave for a day and you write a short novel's worth.

[Writing environment question]

I sit at my computer desk and type, pretty much. Sometimes I lay or sit on my bed with my netbook, but the keyboard and screen are tiny so it gets annoying after a while. I also use my writing journal once every so often, when I don't have access to my PC.

I also try to have Gatorade at hand, which seems to nourish my muse.

In terms of cliche ridden stories, or stories that are otherwise unoriginal, what is the greatest detractor for you, when reading those types of stories?

Usually the fact that there aren't any interesting plot devices/twists or that I can predict everything. I know it's bad when I start calling events before they happen. This is especially horrendous during movies, when people hate you for it.

In other news, what the heck should I call the limbs of Latias and Latios? I've spammed "fore-claw" and "hind-claw" to beyond death, and I need some new descriptions.

¡Chucho! June 22nd, 2009 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valentine (Post 4773354)
(The first Harry Potter book, for example. Subsequent ones -- particularly the last three -- were pretty much because J.K. Rowling's a big-name author.)

I didn't like Harry Potter that much. Then again; I was six.

Quote:

It really all depends on how good your agent is. Yes, your agent. The reason why not too many people get published is also because not too many people realize that most publishing houses nowadays don't accept work from anyone who isn't represented. Fact of life, really, but no one seriously sends a manuscript to a publisher without one nowadays. They used to, but now, those manuscripts actually get rejected. If you find a good agent, the agent will choose the best publishers for your book and pitch your story to them for you.
I have been enlightened.

Quote:

So, please. Tell me you weren't actually advising someone who wants to become a writer that it's best to go with a vanity press.
He said his main job would be a teacher, so I don't think money is the most important thing.

Quote:

The second article, meanwhile, seems to be heavily sarcastic anyway. While it says that a lot of notable books rely on same plot, different names, it's not actually saying that all of them do it or that it's particularly recommended that you should do it, either. Unless you'd like to be the talentless hack he explicitly mentions in the last paragraph.
Did most authors have agents in 1986? No, seriously, this is new to me. I already know I'm talentless, but I'm not a hack, as I don't make money.

Quote:

If this isn't at all what you meant, I apologize, and do feel free to clarify.
I didn't mean anything.

{Swan} June 22nd, 2009 11:42 AM

In terms of cliche ridden stories, or stories that are otherwise unoriginal, what is the greatest detractor for you, when reading those types of stories?

the characters. I often stamp a story as bad or unoriginal when the characters seem either too perfect or don't speak to me at all. An example the over-exampled Twilight. Bella didn't catch my attention at all. She's the average clumsy but gorgeous little girl that gets the love of the hot supernatural. Boring.
Another is Zoey from the House of Night series. Seriously, she controls all of the elements, is especially chose by the goddess Nyxc and has four, yes four boyfriends. That reeks of Sueism. And the writing is bad too. It's written by two different people, PC Cast and her daughter. Well I assume it's the former one where the writing gets good, and the latter where it gets dull and especially childish.

On the Poe front: In school we had to read a short story of his called the Tell-Tale Heart and I found it one of the most interesting things I've ever read, and I read a lot. It's just a very interesting perspective and idea. I love it =]

Lash June 23rd, 2009 2:22 AM

Are there any kind of real life situations that can actually help you write more/better?
here I go again with a random on topic question, lol.
and, haha, I actually have an answer to that, but i feel a little embarrassed to say it, but what the hell screw it.


lol, long strike through.

But, yeah, the situation that helped me write a bit better happened recently. Short story shorter, a chick I really like is in Cali for a little bit, and I was planning to ask her out once she got back. I was sort of stumped at what to do next with my fic, so I was just taking a writing break and scrolling around on the internet.
Next thing I read in this writers block, the girl has a boyfriend who she recently met. I was all ":(" for a couple minutes, open up my writing document, and I was all "MORE IDEAS NAO WRITE WRITE WRITE", and it's overall made my first almost finished chapter wayy better. I don't think I would have gotten that little burst of inspiration if I hadn't read the '6/21/09<33' on her profile.

So yes, for me IRL situation of heartbreak = WRITEOMGWTFICECREAMTRUCKWRITEWRITE! XD

JX Valentine June 23rd, 2009 4:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ¡Chucho! (Post 4774621)
I didn't like Harry Potter that much. Then again; I was six.

It was an example, but even then, when the critics and Stephen King (writer of the most comprehensive guide to writing in this modern age) agree Rowling had something... yeah.

Quote:

He said his main job would be a teacher, so I don't think money is the most important thing.
I never said it was. Where in "Tell me you weren't actually advising someone who wants to become a writer that it's best to go with a vanity press." was an indication that I thought he was writing for money?

Seriously, though, vanity press is an easy way to get published, and you'll probably get paid for it if some really bored person actually finds your book. You probably won't get your book bought as much as you would a book from a bigger, non-vanity publisher (because that's what you usually find in the bookstores), but you'll get something if you're published either way.

Additionally, the Dassen said he wanted to be a teacher and (eventually) write, so your statement that he shouldn't bother with a non-vanity press was still advice to someone who wanted to be a writer, even if it was part-time.

Quote:

Did most authors have agents in 1986? No, seriously, this is new to me. I already know I'm talentless, but I'm not a hack, as I don't make money.
As far as I know, the concept of lit agents have been around for awhile, including as far back as the 1980's. (A lot of noteworthy writers I can think of off the top of my head had agents back then, including, if I recall correctly -- and Asty can correct me if I'm not -- Orson Scott Card.) Really, I don't know when the last time people could have published without one was.

But either way, yeah, a lot of big publishers don't take you seriously if you don't have an agent. Random House for a noteworthy example (considering it's pretty much the largest in the world). Magazines usually don't require a lit agent, and smaller publishers will do it either way. But the ones that put the most books on the shelves? Not so much.

DassenSupes June 23rd, 2009 8:45 AM

About halfway into this chapter

Spoiler:
Starting to work at the rift between Red and Blue. Thye've gotten lost in the forest and there's been a battle against a band of Beedrill. That's mostly it so far, but my fingers are starting to hurt so I better stop @[email protected]


Incidentally, how does everyone feel about Brave New World?


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