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txteclipse April 3rd, 2010 3:03 PM

Note: I will be working on this post for a while, so expect some changes in the next few hours.

I'm kind of a scatterbrain, and I can't really keep track of all the things that are being suggested here, so I'm actually going to start acting as a bit of an organizer/bookkeeper right now if nobody minds. I guess you could call this post an absolute minimalist approach to this very complicated business of renewing the fanfiction section.

Here's my philosophy: I will create some key goals for the renovation, placing them in order from most important to least important (according to me). I will then file suggested solutions or changes under the major goal(s) they address. Hopefully this will save some brains from exploding, including mine. Any suggestions or comments are welcome.

1. Increase interest in the fanfiction section in general.

A) Bring back the prompt challenge.

B) Hand out emblems like drugs candy. (Get the art section in on emblem creation?)

C) Do one-shot challenges.

D) What if we picked one fic a year to be advertised site-wide? Sort of a fanfiction blockbuster?

2. Increase/improve reader input (including reviewing).

A) Provide incentives for reviewing.

B) Have some sort of reading/reviewing competition with prizes (anyone remember Book It?).

C) Create a thread in which people critique other people's review styles.

2. Increase productive writer interaction.

A) Revamp the plot bunny thread to allow any person to post any idea and receive feedback on it.

B) Make the Lounge more writing-focused/offload the craziness somewhere else.

3. Improve ease of access to all sections for new writers.

A) Revise the purpose/structure of the Lounge to make it less cliquey.

4. Increase interaction between experienced writers and inexperienced writers.

A) I propose that we have a reader adoption system, in which experienced writers take one or two new writers under their wing and basically act as a mentor to them, regularly beta'ing and/or critiquing their work.

5. Streamline both the rules and various guides/increase new writer exposure to these sections.

A) Create a guide in which a badfic is reviewed, pointing out common mistakes of new writers.

B) Create a resources thread with links to helpful websites.

C) Have writers post a link to every new fic in the Rules thread! :D

Astinus April 3rd, 2010 7:58 PM

Quote:

D) What if we picked one fic a year to be advertised site-wide? Sort of a fanfiction blockbuster?
That would unfortunately require the rest of the forum to care what happens in this section. It would be nice, but we're really our own separate entity unto ourselves here.

There was more I could say, but I'm half asleep and wanting to go play old Nintendo games. So it's going to have to wait one more day for me to be useful.

bobandbill April 3rd, 2010 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txteclipse (Post 5678995)
Note: I will be working on this post for a while, so expect some changes in the next few hours.

I'm kind of a scatterbrain, and I can't really keep track of all the things that are being suggested here, so I'm actually going to start acting as a bit of an organizer/bookkeeper right now if nobody minds. I guess you could call this post an absolute minimalist approach to this very complicated business of renewing the fanfiction section.

Here's my philosophy: I will create some key goals for the renovation, placing them in order from most important to least important (according to me). I will then file suggested solutions or changes under the major goal(s) they address. Hopefully this will save some brains from exploding, including mine. Any suggestions or comments are welcome.

1. Increase interest in the fanfiction section in general.

A) Bring back the prompt challenge. I say yes to this

B) Hand out emblems like drugs candy. (Get the art section in on emblem creation?) Mabye not like candy, but it's an idea.

C) Do one-shot challenges. Yeah

D) What if we picked one fic a year to be advertised site-wide? Sort of a fanfiction blockbuster? I'm think this wouldn't be very successful. Personally maybe we could have a subsection for completed fics? Yes sppf has it first but I don't see why not

2. Increase/improve reader input (including reviewing).

A) Provide incentives for reviewing. Maybe combine with an emblem - if Astinus seeing mods give out emblems sees someone who reviews well, they get a shiny emblem? Maybe we already have this in fact but if so, bring it about into force.

B) Have some sort of reading/reviewing competition with prizes (anyone remember Book It?). Book it? Explain please. =P But maybe a review thingy would be good...once there's enough interest.

C) Create a thread in which people critique other people's review styles. IDK how successful this'd be - there's no real one best way to critique I feel, and I'm a bit doubtful on how well it'd work. =/ The review guide thingy does a better job IMO.

2. Increase productive writer interaction.

A) Revamp the plot bunny thread to allow any person to post any idea and receive feedback on it. Yes

B) Make the Lounge more writing-focused/offload the craziness somewhere else. Yes

3. Improve ease of access to all sections for new writers.

A) Revise the purpose/structure of the Lounge to make it less cliquey. YES

4. Increase interaction between experienced writers and inexperienced writers. YES

A) I propose that we have a reader adoption system, in which experienced writers take one or two new writers under their wing and basically act as a mentor to them, regularly beta'ing and/or critiquing their work. TBH this sounds kinda like the Beta Thread, just more of an extension of it and personally betas kinda should be doing that in cases anyways...constantly giving feedback on work, etc if time allows/the writer needs it

5. Streamline both the rules and various guides/increase new writer exposure to these sections.

A) Create a guide in which a badfic is reviewed, pointing out common mistakes of new writers. Could be part of a new Fanfic guide thread?

B) Create a resources thread with links to helpful websites. Yeah... maybe combine with the above though? I suppose we all could have a discussion thread on making such a thread actually, and compine stuff like the Grammer thread with it (and separate parts into different posts for easier-reading sake).

C) Have writers post a link to every new fic in the Rules thread! :D Interesting, although the rule-breakers tend to not read the rules anyways so idk...

Random thoughts in bold here. Bacause I'm lazy. =P

Astinus April 3rd, 2010 8:45 PM

Oh, bobandbill, you're an Aussie, so of course you don't know what Book It! is.

Of course, I'm American, and I had no idea. Then again, I don't eat pizza.

Book It!, a program created by Pizza Hut (Their pizzas make me terribly terribly ill) to get children to read. Basically, a goal is set per month for a child, and if the child reads that much each month, a manager of their local Hut gives them a free kid-sized pizza (this is making me sick), a Book It! card, and a backpack kit.

That can't happen here, but there are similarities. If someone reads and reviews a certain amount of fics per month, then they get a shiny emblem. Because we just love our extrinsic rewards here.

bobandbill April 3rd, 2010 9:01 PM

Oh, I see. Cheers for the explanation then. =)

I suppose that could work...although a check on the reviews themselves (because if anything weak one-liners reviews hinder rather than help the community as a whole at times) would probably be needed if done.

Astinus April 3rd, 2010 9:22 PM

That's one reason why I would like quality to be put ahead of competitions. Because it's not too helpful to have a lot of one-liner reviews that can be quickly c/p'd to various thread in the section. But if there's a certain standard of quality, then things can look better.

Right now, I'm really bugged about reviews seen on another forum, but that's gonna be something I'll have to discuss at another time. We're still in the planning stages.

Hopefully soon we'll be getting somewhere with this.

Edit: I'm sure if I'm a PITA enough about it, I can fix up the subforums of this section. Getting a Completed Fics forum and whatever else y'all desire.

Giratina ♀ April 4th, 2010 5:20 AM

I think that completed fics should be placed in a "Completed" subforum and stickied, but not locked like Serebii does; after all, what if you realize they were moved before you could get in a comment on the climax or the end of the story? Sorry, I know the comment is terribly short, but I don't have anything else to say on the matter except that I have an unpleasantly vague idea on what you could put on an achievement for reviewing stuff... a keyboard and pen?

Miz en Scène April 4th, 2010 8:47 AM

I'mma use bobandbill's format and then go back to lurking DeviantArt...

Quote:

Originally Posted by txteclipse (Post 5678995)
1. Increase interest in the fanfiction section in general.

A) Bring back the prompt challenge. Yes, but make it monthly rather than weekly or yearly.

B) Hand out emblems like drugs candy. (Get the art section in on emblem creation?) The way I see it, there are lots of artists in the fanfiction section so let's see if we can handle this as an interior issue before seeking help from outsiders. I sound like the government...

C) Do one-shot challenges. Yes, but integrate with 'A'.

D) What if we picked one fic a year to be advertised site-wide? Sort of a fanfiction blockbuster? No for reason stated in 'B'. Unless of course, all the vets or frequent FFL-ers would agree to advertise said fic in their sig for a month...

2. Increase/improve reader input (including reviewing).

A) Provide incentives for reviewing. Yes, and working on it with that 3 stage emblem plan of mine. I'm trying to make it seem like less work...

B) Have some sort of reading/reviewing competition with prizes (anyone remember Book It?). Don't know it, but Asty explained. Thanks. XD

C) Create a thread in which people critique other people's review styles. Uhhh... not sure...

2. Increase productive writer interaction.

A) Revamp the plot bunny thread to allow any person to post any idea and receive feedback on it. Yes

B) Make the Lounge more writing-focused/offload the craziness somewhere else. MaybeYes, but not too strict. Only allow for minimal deviation from topic and not all out DCC styled conversation on Anime and random other things unless relevant to fanfiction.

3. Improve ease of access to all sections for new writers.

A) Revise the purpose/structure of the Lounge to make it less cliquey. Yes

4. Increase interaction between experienced writers and inexperienced writers.

A) I propose that we have a reader adoption system, in which experienced writers take one or two new writers under their wing and basically act as a mentor to them, regularly beta'ing and/or critiquing their work. Like bobandbill said, it's like an extension to the beta thread...

5. Streamline both the rules and various guides/increase new writer exposure to these sections.

A) Create a guide in which a badfic is reviewed, pointing out common mistakes of new writers. Can be integrated with the uploading tutorials or review worksheet thing.

B) Create a resources thread with links to helpful websites. Problem is that no one reads stickies.

C) Have writers post a link to every new fic in the Rules thread! :D Same problem as 5B.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astinus (Post 5680196)
Edit: I'm sure if I'm a PITA enough about it, I can fix up the subforums of this section. Getting a Completed Fics forum and whatever else y'all desire.

While we're at it, is it possible to remove the revision bin since we don't use it? Or maybe rename it to become the completed fics section, but don't lock completed fics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giratina ♀ (Post 5681177)
I think that completed fics should be placed in a "Completed" subforum and stickied, but not locked like Serebii does; after all, what if you realize they were moved before you could get in a comment on the climax or the end of the story? Sorry, I know the comment is terribly short, but I don't have anything else to say on the matter except that I have an unpleasantly vague idea on what you could put on an achievement for reviewing stuff... a keyboard and pen?

Agreed.

Bay April 5th, 2010 4:23 PM

This way is much easier. XD; And sorry for late reply, had to take care of some things. >.>

Quote:

Originally Posted by txteclipse (Post 5678995)
Note: I will be working on this post for a while, so expect some changes in the next few hours.

I'm kind of a scatterbrain, and I can't really keep track of all the things that are being suggested here, so I'm actually going to start acting as a bit of an organizer/bookkeeper right now if nobody minds. I guess you could call this post an absolute minimalist approach to this very complicated business of renewing the fanfiction section.

Here's my philosophy: I will create some key goals for the renovation, placing them in order from most important to least important (according to me). I will then file suggested solutions or changes under the major goal(s) they address. Hopefully this will save some brains from exploding, including mine. Any suggestions or comments are welcome.

1. Increase interest in the fanfiction section in general.

A) Bring back the prompt challenge. -Yes!

B) Hand out emblems like drugs candy. (Get the art section in on emblem creation?) Sounds like a good idea too. Hm, did we establish what kind of emblems we'll be giving out? I think we're still talking about a reviewing emblem...O.o

C) Do one-shot challenges. -We should do this too.

D) What if we picked one fic a year to be advertised site-wide? Sort of a fanfiction blockbuster? -Not so sure. Most likely that fic will overshadow the other fics. Remember, we're trying to have people read more of the fics here, not just a few.

2. Increase/improve reader input (including reviewing).

A) Provide incentives for reviewing. -Yes, and yeah also agreement on emblems maybe one of the incentives.

B) Have some sort of reading/reviewing competition with prizes (anyone remember Book It?). - Hm, I think we explained before how a couple "challenges" for reviewing didn't worked out or won't work out? Otherwise, to me it seems more people are excited to write than review, so one shot challenges/contests bring in more people than review ones. So long story short, not so sure.

C) Create a thread in which people critique other people's review styles. -I like this idea, but perhaps have a disclaimer in that there is no right way of reviewing but that this thread is for if you feel you want to fintune it or something.

2. Increase productive writer interaction.

A) Revamp the plot bunny thread to allow any person to post any idea and receive feedback on it. -Yes.

B) Make the Lounge more writing-focused/offload the craziness somewhere else. -Of course! :P

3. Improve ease of access to all sections for new writers.

A) Revise the purpose/structure of the Lounge to make it less cliquey. - *nods* Of course. :3

4. Increase interaction between experienced writers and inexperienced writers.

A) I propose that we have a reader adoption system, in which experienced writers take one or two new writers under their wing and basically act as a mentor to them, regularly beta'ing and/or critiquing their work. -Like the others said, pretty much an extension of the beta thread.

5. Streamline both the rules and various guides/increase new writer exposure to these sections.

A) Create a guide in which a badfic is reviewed, pointing out common mistakes of new writers. -Not so sure on that. Pretty much everyone's perspective on badfic is different, IMO.

B) Create a resources thread with links to helpful websites. -I'm going with bobandbill's idea in that we have a discussion thread that we can talk more about this.

C) Have writers post a link to every new fic in the Rules thread! :D -Not so sure about that. You would have to keep track of every new fic posted. Then again, I suck at tracking stuff and I'm a finance person D: .


Astinus April 5th, 2010 5:42 PM

I'm so busted if I get caught on here during work.

Quote:

Hm, I think we explained before how a couple "challenges" for reviewing didn't worked out or won't work out? Otherwise, to me it seems more people are excited to write than review, so one shot challenges/contests bring in more people than review ones. So long story short, not so sure.
There was an official "you review me, I'll review you" thread, where the person who posts asking for a review has to review the people who posted before them. One reason I think that failed was because a writer might not be willing to review other people, or the pile of people wanting reviews gets to be so long that it's kind of tedious.

Then there was the recent "Hey, let's just review with no stipulations!" thread from last month. That failed for some reason that I can't fathom, or just completely refuse to fathom.

I dunno. Maybe we should focus more on getting stories to review, and then working on getting the quality of reviews up before we decide we need more reviews? Because I bag people more on lesser quality reviews than the quality of a story posted.

Kind of a short response because lol work.

Buoysel April 5th, 2010 5:49 PM

I volunteered to make an emblem, and have no problem making several, I just need ideas on what they should look like.

[OFF TOPIC]
Spoiler:
I GOT ACCEPTED TO A PRIVATE COLLEGE AND START MAY 3RD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHOOOO HOOOOO !!!1111!!111!!!11
*cough* Sorry[/OFF TOPIC]

JX Valentine April 5th, 2010 9:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astinus (Post 5686805)
I dunno. Maybe we should focus more on getting stories to review, and then working on getting the quality of reviews up before we decide we need more reviews? Because I bag people more on lesser quality reviews than the quality of a story posted.

The thing is we have plenty of stories to review. However, there wasn't (until I complained on my personal LJ) that much in terms of reviewing going on.

And even then, one of the benefits of having an active reviewerbase with plenty of people to offer quality reviews is that the more people see that they're likely to get feedback on a certain place, the more likely they'll be to post. This is why you get kids who say, "OMG, I thought this place would give me awesome reviews because the other place did" and why kids post more on places where there's a lot of reviewers: because they're focused on getting as many reviews as possible. There's exceptions, of course, but these are usually loaded with other incentives -- like how Pokemon Tower has its own awards system set up -- or have just been around for awhile.

Hence why my original question about activity was "how do we get more people to review" and not so much "how do we get more people to post stories." I mean, if all of the threads on the first page were updated within the last couple of days, that means you at least have fifteen new stories to check out. Activity in the writing department's not that bad if that's the case. It's just that people aren't getting that many reviews. So, you're not only stopping short of setting a standard, but the kids out there are also getting impatient when they go for a couple of chapters without getting so much as a note. (Case in point.)

tl;dr, from what I can tell, you're fine in terms of fic activity. It's the feedback end where there's a disconnection. And anyway, it's the reviews that really help feed the activity in a writing community, so it's a win-win situation if you can kick people into posting more reviews.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buoysel (Post 5686826)
[OFF TOPIC]
Spoiler:
I GOT ACCEPTED TO A PRIVATE COLLEGE AND START MAY 3RD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHOOOO HOOOOO !!!1111!!111!!!11
*cough* Sorry[/OFF TOPIC]

I'd hate to sound like a mini-mod, but if you have to say it's "off-topic," why are you bringing it up here instead of in VMs -- or better yet, your PC blog?

Caliban April 5th, 2010 10:24 PM

Hi. Yes, I'm not lurking (as much) today.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Txty
D) What if we picked one fic a year to be advertised site-wide? Sort of a fanfiction blockbuster?

As other people have mentioned before me, this could get one fic in particular read, drawing attention away from the others. Maybe it would work better if this hypothetical rotated through every fic in the current fic pool...? As in, changed every time you refresh the page to a different fic each time. You'd probably want certain restraints on which fics got displayed, like maybe putting one that's been posted in recently above one that hasn't been posted in for six years, I don't really know. But, theoretically, it could work.
If anyone's interested, I have the code for it sitting on my external drive somewhere.
- Liam

Astinus April 5th, 2010 11:13 PM

Maybe we can use reviews as a stipulation to get writing contests. The contests seem to be what gets resounding positive answers, so maybe saying "hey people, go out and review the fics that are out there before we get more here with contests" could work. Same with emblems. Because, y'know, extrinsic rewards seem to work better than intrinsic ones. So give people some reason to review more other than "out of the goodness of their little hearts".

So swing your focus on getting reviews, people. Upping the amount of reviews and the quality of them. (Don't look at me for suggestions/motivation because I have a host of issues getting in my way, unfortunately.)

Besides, if we follow science, then reviewing more --> getting more people wanting to post their fics

There's more to that, I'm sure, but I can't think of it.

Also, CALIBAAAAAAN (iluvu,indy), I'm not sure how willing the upper staff is to put a random rotating code on the forums for this section. But that does bring to mind the return of Fanfiction of the Month, which might not work out for reasons that will be brought up. But that's probably getting ahead of where we need to be looking.

Misheard Whisper April 5th, 2010 11:41 PM

Well, I've resolved to start reviewing more (both here and elsewhere) so I'm all up for this. I'm also writing at a a hundred and fifty knots, so that might help generate some more reviewage, yes/yes?

I say we get this party started. *cracks knuckles* Who's with us?

Caliban April 6th, 2010 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astinus (Post 5687561)
Also, CALIBAAAAAAN (iluvu,indy), I'm not sure how willing the upper staff is to put a random rotating code on the forums for this section. But that does bring to mind the return of Fanfiction of the Month, which might not work out for reasons that will be brought up. But that's probably getting ahead of where we need to be looking.

Yes, I know it's probably a bit far ahead, but I only feel comfortable offering help with tech things because my other ideas tend to be unworkable or just plain inane (ignore rhyme please). XD;
Does the box where it says "Fan Fiction and Writing Submit your stories and poems" support links? If so, you'd probably be able to put your rotating link there.
(image in spoiler shows the box that I'm referring to)

*Liam wanders off irrelevantly to somewhere else again*

Misheard Whisper April 6th, 2010 12:50 AM

I'm pretty sure that supports links, as I think I've seen other forums use it to link to their respective rulesets.

*me picks a random fic off the first page and reviews it*

icomeanon6 April 6th, 2010 3:59 AM

I haven't done anything around here in a good while, so I guess reviewing sounds like a good way to get back in the groove. I'll do some of that once the school day's over.

And while I'm here, how about a bold topic?

When you're thinking up an idea for a story, which do you think of first, characters or events?

I've heard some people say that you're supposed to think of some good characters first and let the story grow around them, but I find that I usually think of a kind of scene that I'd like to do and let the characters grow around that. What about the rest of you?

Silawen April 6th, 2010 5:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icomeanon6 (Post 5687950)
When you're thinking up an idea for a story, which do you think of first, characters or events?

I usually think of a plot first. Once I have all important events written down I'll worry about what characters to put in. I mould characters to what their place in the plot is, not the other way around. While I've sometimes thought up characters that I'd love to use, I don't change the story to suit the character. Characters should serve the story, not the other way around.

Once I know what's going on I can start thinking about what kind of characters I need to tell my story.

Buoysel April 6th, 2010 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JX Valentine (Post 5687384)
I'd hate to sound like a mini-mod, but if you have to say it's "off-topic," why are you bringing it up here instead of in VMs -- or better yet, your PC blog?

The reason I posted that here apparently didn't get posted (in other words my last post was missing something). 0.o Sorry.

I took the entrance exam yesterday and was quite tired from that, whether that is the reason why what I am about to say didn't get on my last post I honestly don't remember.

"While taking the writing section of the exam, I found it to be rather easy, I spotted lot of errors that I see getting pointed out all the time in reviews. I was wanting to thank every one in the FanFiction lounge. Reading some of your reviews helped me out a lot yesterday."

That would be the reason I posted it here in the lounge, There are too many people to go to each and everyone and post a VM, and a blog would not reach everybody.

Bay April 6th, 2010 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astinus (Post 5687561)
Maybe we can use reviews as a stipulation to get writing contests. The contests seem to be what gets resounding positive answers, so maybe saying "hey people, go out and review the fics that are out there before we get more here with contests" could work. Same with emblems. Because, y'know, extrinsic rewards seem to work better than intrinsic ones. So give people some reason to review more other than "out of the goodness of their little hearts".

So swing your focus on getting reviews, people. Upping the amount of reviews and the quality of them. (Don't look at me for suggestions/motivation because I have a host of issues getting in my way, unfortunately.)

Besides, if we follow science, then reviewing more --> getting more people wanting to post their fics

There's more to that, I'm sure, but I can't think of it.

Hm, I think this might work. Besides, for contests the judges will have to at least be quite decent in the reviews (that is if we're going to do one shot contests and such like Serebii and the Short Writing Contest from the 2009 Get Together).

Also, emblems good idea too. Speaking of which, how is that going?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misheard Whisper (Post 5687594)
Well, I've resolved to start reviewing more (both here and elsewhere) so I'm all up for this. I'm also writing at a a hundred and fifty knots, so that might help generate some more reviewage, yes/yes?

I say we get this party started. *cracks knuckles* Who's with us?

I'm with you. :3 Despite me going to be busy with uni work and such, I'll try to leave some time to review a few fics here and there.

And AH, BOLD TOPIC! D: *checks solovino's Bold Topic Index* As far as I can tell, don't see a bold topic of this. I might've missed that though, so someone kick me if indeed there's a bold topic about this. >.>


When you're thinking up an idea for a story, which do you think of first, characters or events?

I tend to think up events I want to do and then what kind of characters I want to put. Like Silawen said, ifI do the other way round it makes it as if I'm trying to have the plot revolve around the character, which is a big no-no. :P

Dagzar April 6th, 2010 3:47 PM

When you're thinking up an idea for a story, which do you think of first, characters or events?
Characters, definitely. I have so many of them I’m always struggling to give each and every one of them a story. I never think of the story first, probably because I care more about the characters than the plot. A story / plot / setting is just a sandbox I play in with my characters, nothing more.

Astinus April 6th, 2010 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bay Alexison (Post 5689530)
Also, emblems good idea too. Speaking of which, how is that going?

We need to decide what the pictures are going to look like for the emblems. Buoysel asked us if there were any images that we could use so he could work on an emblem, but his post got lost in the shuffle. So if anyone has any image ideas, send them to Buoysel.

txteclipse April 6th, 2010 5:22 PM

I can help with emblems as well, once I have access to my netbook (might take a few days).

As for the list I posted a bit ago, I'm not sure what to do with it now. I could either a) make a new thread for it, b) continue adding stuff to it here and strike out things that people don't want to do, or c) add stuff to it here and include links to posts that express concerns about certain items.

I'm leaning toward the last one, because basic brainstorming philosophy dictates that you don't throw out ideas. It would make things more complicated, though, which I was ultimately trying to avoid. Creating a new thread is also inviting, but would people actually go to it? I probably wouldn't if I were me. Which I am.

Mika April 7th, 2010 12:13 AM

When you're thinking up an idea for a story, which do you think of first, characters or events?

Events. Then Characters and then sometimes sometimes a first page. For me, the most difficult part of fanfiction is getting the ball rolling. I can write points B - Z but I can't write A - Z to save my life. I have everything planned out almost always before hand except that part. XD I dunno, its probably not answering the question 100% but when I do a one shot or w/e, it's what's always at the bottom of the list of 'things to think up'


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