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You'll be Encore'd on the setting up -_-...
Also, here's the distinct differences between Latis Latios - More sweeper orientated with superior sp.atk and atk over Latias, but defenses hurt it to an extent. However, it's known to easily run Scarf and Specs effectively with over-Salamence Draco Meteors. Latias - Latias lacks sweeping potential, but you see...superior sp.def and defenses mean she's tankish, passing the all-known Wish to partners in dread need of it. Also, she can set up Calm Minds MUCH easier and more effectively. The more bulky Latias can Recover off the damage she takes easier too. Oh yeah, Samson, here's why I said that if the Latis had fire moves, it'd be why they'd be highly restricted to Ubers. It's not the fact that fire helps in ubers, but the fact that fire helps in OU against the many Steels lurking the area. That's the main reason. |
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I seriously hate that move. So yeah, keep it in ubers. The lack of Fire moves is the main reason it is viable in OU. It can get walled, if you know what you're doing. The question is not whether it is strong enough for Uber, but whether it is weak enough for OU. Nice to see someone remembering that. |
Yeah.
The Metagame rule is not how a pocket monster performs in uber at all (that's just a ban field, nothing more really), but how it performs in OU. Seriously, we're pretty much all on the same page. Wobby = uber. I will be hosting the Lati twin Tournament so all of us can see some of the affects for ourself. I will be posting the tournament in about a week, as we have to sort out the whole Garchomp, wobby, D-E, controversals mess first. Yeah basically, if it had fireblast, Latios would be uber, so thanks for just having HPfire. I look forward to the tournament, and hope everyone participates. |
Well if you're going to ask it they're weak enough for OU, most people will be looking at the various movesets and viable counters for them.
As mentioned before, Tyranitar, Metagross or any other pokemon with a powerful Pursuit can stop them. Plus without HP fire, most steel pokemon can stand up to them. Then you've got your Scarfed pokemon like Heracross, ghosts like Spiritomb and other pokemon who can wall them. Is that enough though? |
It's easy to beat a Latias n00bs, go learn to play o_o Any posts like that yet Dark? As always, I do have a 60% on the side of Latias being OU, it's got it's own counters. If at least about 3-5 OU Pokemon counters an "Uber" Pokemon, I'm pretty much convinced that the "Uber" Pokemon is actually misplaced and is actually OU. Latias's 110 Speed is actually less deadly than it looks, Gengar ties with this speed and usually, sweepers below 100 speed (Except Electivire..) are usually Scarfed for quick striking. Now, if this were to be Scarfed, that would be a completely different story. Scarfing this bad girl is hindering her advantage of an excellent Special attacking movepool. If this were to be released as OU, some Special Sweepers like Porygon-Z might definitely get less popular than usual. As for Dragon Dancing Latias... why use that if it's special attacks are completely better (and higher!) than it's physical side? So far, 60/40, 60 in favor of the OU Latias (WITHOUT SOUL DEW) |
*Sighs* Am I the only one here who believes Wobb and Garchomp are OU?
Well, in the instance that [email protected] is introduced sweepers below the 110 speed range are not going to drop in popularity as [email protected] can't come in on them anyway. [email protected] is not hard to counter, the top tier OUs can do it decently well. I won't waste my time theorymonning about how "broken" or "not broken" they are, but I feel they would not have any significant impact on the metagame or overcentralise it in some way. Just because we are Pokecommunity and not Smogon or Shoddy and shouldn't use their tier lists doesn't make sense. Shoddy and Smogon have established semi-solid tier lists out of important statistics on usage and centralisation. It would be stupid not to utilise good data that is right in front of you. Shoddy is still testing Wobb, so maybe Wobb could be put into Ubers until the situation is resolved, but I see no need to make new tiers or any stuff like that just because of a few members. Please don't respond to my post with a Wobb debate, go start it in a another thread e_E |
no i definitely agree on both of them being OU. i've been waiting for wobbu to make its way into OU for a long time, and tho i'm anxious to use it myself, it's clear a lot of people don't like it.
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On the were PC thing, well yeah the good data of course is great and we should of course take, absorb and learn from it. Though, we are ourown community, and that's not stupid to be create and design our own tiers. Of course we look into smogon's ideals and information, we have to, heck its smogon for crying out loud. But that doesn't mean we have to mirror them... What's the fun in mirroring people anyways. I like that we have people rejecting what we do here, the more debate the better. |
If you don't want a Wobb debate, don't bring it up at all.
This is a thread concerning the entire battling community of PC as is. If you feel Garchomp & Wobby aren't Uber, and have some reasonable explaination as of why, go to the tier list. It isn't as simple as what you are saying. If any other members feel otherwise, they should post up. As such, these "few members" are giving good reason as to why they are put where they are. And as such, decisions are made based on that. If we feel that what shoddy says is incorrect, we will act accordingly. We aren't ignoring their information, we are simply disagreeing. We don't have to wait to see how it performs, we can test it ourselves. |
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=118170&page=10
^ there, now all of you go put your opinion on the controversals. Anyway on topic about the Lati's. I think Latios would make a bigger impact on the metagame, Latias would be a cool tankish pocket monster to tinker around with. Whom do you all think would become more centralizing? Os or As? I'm still on the fence with the Lati's. Even though tournaments can't honestly give accurate information, I think it would still be nice to see the results on the upcoming Lati tournament here. |
I find it frivolous to depend on a few members of the community, while they may be experienced in pokemon, the opinion of a few members would not be accurate in the long run.
While this may seem elitist, I strongly feel that the community is strongly biased toward a certain opinion. A good example is Wobbuffet. The whole community is strongly biased against Wobbuffet, even if they do not have good statements to back it up. The best way is to analyse statistics that would prove the overcentralisation of a pokemon in the metagame. Wobb should be banned? Tough luck, the statistics don't say so. |
This is a Latios / Latias discussion. Please take all discussion of other Pokemon to their respective threads. Thank you.
(This is aimed at no one in particular. Just an FYI for future posts.) |
Nice, but why does peoples keep bringing up Wobby & Garchomps? Wobby is debatable, and Garchomp is clearly uber as it is superior to OU and UU. The more important thing is the [email protected], whom i think are clearly fit for OU, and would just be at the stronger end of the ability scale, with all other dragons & T-tar etc. The prblem is people who don't want to face strong pokes, but as far as i can see, if you're one of those, go UU, as they are usually weaker (although some are quite good if you play them right). And everyone who says they would bring more variety to the game has an outstanding point, as there aren't really any specific Dragon Walls, although Dragonite with the right nature could be one, and most Dragons are mainly physical, unlike Latios, who is a special attacker, and more like the psychic side of his family. So, realy they would make the game more exciting, and are cool as.
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Latios' sets are inferior to the common dragons and is generally outclassed by Salamence due to the lack of a fire move. I don't see Latios having a negative impact on the metagame except people would run more Bronzongs/Metagrosses or something. Latias hasn't been extensively tested but it would be a Cresselia with more SpA (and Draco Meteor =D) if it were to run a special walling set, and would be inferior if it ran Latios' offensive sets. UU is meant to create a balanced metagame for the lower tier pokemon to function in. It is not a tier for "weak pokemon" or "I don't want to face strong pokemons". People play UU for added fun of playing with pokemon that would otherwise be unviable in OU. I strongly feel that the reason why people would unban [email protected] is because of the advent of a new metagame, and therefore they cannot go by the rules of the old standard as Advance is very different from D/P. It is not to add variety in the choices of pokemon as almost all the sets are inferior to current OU pokemon one way or another. Physical Pursuit and stuff like that nerf [email protected] in D/P, so they are being considered for unbanning. No Dragon Walls? Noone remembers BulkyMence =( Dragons are not suited to be walls due to their stats being catered to the offensive rather than defensive and common Ice Beam weakness hurts a lot. Unbanning [email protected] would not add more variety to the game, neither will it see the advent of a new fearsome Special Attacker Dragon (which is vastly inferior to Salamence =*) It is just to show that Advance rules do not neccessarily apply in D/P, and to correct any wrongs in the tier list. So far, Smogon has suggested ditching the BL list altogether and starting from scratch, because of the massive changes that D/P brought. (BTW, the Psychic type got seriously nerfed in D/P) |
How can you see if [email protected] holds the Dew in battle ? It's awful that we can't at first sight.
I think [email protected] should be OU. Weavile's STAB moves are super-effective on their average defense, and they can't run, they'll be Pursuited. TTar is immune to Psychic and can switch on a Specs Psychic, DD up and proceed to sweep [email protected]~. If they run, one more DD up. If they don't run, it'll be 6 dd's up. Big dilemma. Blissey with Calm Mind or Psych Up enjoys Ice Beaming that Calm Mind [email protected] Scizor can Pursuit or XScissor them with impunity, and doesn't take much from Psychic and Dragon Pulse; he has only to be afraid of the occasional HP Fire. Even CB Honchkrow is immune to Psychic and can Sucker Punch their face. Spiritomb is immue to Psychic and to the occasional HP Fighting, and murders seriously [email protected] with Pursuit + Sucker Punch, but you have to be careful with Dragon Pulse. Heck, that's only some counters.[email protected]are 2HKO'd by almost any good sweeper. |
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there are 3 ways to determine if [email protected] has Soul Dew.
1. Damage Calculations. You get blasted away from something that normally doesn't OHKO. Then if your opponent uses a different move, does insane damage, then it's Soul Dew'd. If it switches out, then it's holding Specs most likely. Also, your OHKO-ing Ice Beam does about 75% to even the most bulky of [email protected] That's a sign of Soul Dew. 2. I know there are extremely trustful members here. Those who use the Soul Dew in an OU tournament will just prove they're noobs anyway, trying to cheat to win, and those people will break the trust of mine (and all of us most likely.) 3. Bring someone with Knock Off. lol that'll determine pretty quickly. |
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Good luck switching that in on Draco meteors =/. Also Choice Specs grants the same sp.att boost as Soul Dew and DOES NOT 2hko Blissey. I think it still just out damages specs mence, but not by much. |
Yeah, Rhyperior can't come in on a Draco Meteor, but it can come in on a Thunderbolt or physical sets. Everything else...nah, not likely.
Latios may run 1 of these 3 items about 95% of the time: Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, and Life Orb. I'd expect the Life Orb sets to run Recover. Latias would run more defensive things like Leftovers, but Life Orb may be an option. |
Well It isn't easy know when the [email protected] have the Soul Dew, the easist way is Damage calculations. If you know that he have Soul Dew, you may D/C. It's like D/C when someone breaks the Sleep clause, maybe this is the [email protected] Clause...
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I know it may seem stupid to say this, but using a pokemon with Frisk is another way to check [email protected] for its item. The only two pokemon with Frisk are Stantler and Banette, both that are basically unusable in OU.
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Interesting...
I actually think Litias is going to do better than Latios. Latios has to compete with Salamence and other dragons for slots and it is generally pretty obvious as to what's coming. It's kind of like a special Garchomp (kind of...I'll explain later). I've recently become less adamant on my opinions with both Garchomp and Wobbuffet....so yeah, I'm going to REALLY withhold my judgment on this. As for Latias, the only pokemon really similar to it at all is Cresselia, who is used for countering different things and typing differences set them apart quite a bit (not to mention Latias' superior recovery options). Latias can pass Wish and do a lot of things that no other pokemon can do. At this point, I actually think Latias might have more of an impact because we haven't seen other things like it before. BTW, I saw somebody mentioning that Toxic Blissey beats Latios, and I object to that. Substitute says hi. EDIT: Quote:
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Latias has little or no competition. The usual wishpassers, Umbreon, Vaporeon, and Blissey, are outclassed by Latias because she has varied coverage that doesn't require Hidden powers to do, and she hits amazingly hard. Her 80 base HP hurts her a little (if it was 90, then that'd be pretty cool.) She also comes with some good resistances, but bad weaknesses at the same time.
Latios, on the other hand, has competition everywhere, as you can see. And with Knock Off, you can hit with it on the eon's switch-in. |
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