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-   -   Shoddy Team- Revised and Remade (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=138838)

Anti June 7th, 2008 6:59 PM

Sweeping Missy without Sub is not a good sweeping Missy anyways ;)

As for the current lineup, it looks okay after skimming it over. Watch out for opposi8ng CBtars and stuff though.

Lalapizzame June 8th, 2008 6:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3653381)
Metagross @ Life Orb
"Wish I were uber..."
Adamant
Clear Body
252 HP, 244 Att, 14 Def

Those EVs were for surviving CB Dugtrio's Earthquake and after Life Orb damage you still die even though you have those EVs unless it does minimum damage and you can't escape. >=[ You're better off making those EVs pumping Speed or something like outspeeding Impish O Speed EV Gliscor so you won't get damaged by Earthquake before you smash Gliscor with Ice Punch. And, if I'm correct and did the right calculating Bullet Punch does this much to Dugtrio with Life Orb:
Damage: 154 - 182
Damage: 72.99% - 86.26% to Adamant Dugtrio with 0 Defense and HP EVs.
Correct me if I'm wrong in calculating but you won't OHKO while it OHKOs you most likely with CB Earthquake because of the 10% Life Orb recoil.

. June 8th, 2008 9:30 AM

Advice on new EV's? And should I use Ice Punch > Explosion?

Lalapizzame June 8th, 2008 4:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3655070)
Advice on new EV's? And should I use Ice Punch > Explosion?

Probably 204 EVs in Speed taking those from HP or just take all 12 useful Defense EVs, which should outrun Impish 0 Speed Gliscor. Explosion is to commit suicide right before you die (If you can survive the hit or if you're faster) and do a big hit to your opponent, most likely KOing them. Ice Punch can do huge damage to Gliscor without dying while Explosion does almost 2x the damage Ice Punch does at the price of killing yourself. I'd run Explosion, because 2 Meteor Mashes= 1 Ice Punch so you don't need Ice Punch just for Gliscor because it can Roost before you with that set of EVs if you don't change them, making an Ice Punch as strong as a Meteor Mash on the turn it uses Roost.

. June 8th, 2008 4:37 PM

So, 12 Spe EVs > Gliscor w/ 0 Spe? I don't wanna take away any Att EV's, Bullet Punch absolutely murders most stat uppers/switch ins/Weaviles who think "Lol outsped"

Lalapizzame June 8th, 2008 4:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3656255)
So, 12 Spe EVs > Gliscor w/ 0 Spe? I don't wanna take away any Att EV's, Bullet Punch absolutely murders most stat uppers/switch ins/Weaviles who think "Lol outsped"

204 EVs in Speed should outspeed that kind of Gliscor. You know, we have HP EVs in the world, have you heard of it? :D Take away from that to not touch Attack and weaken Metagross.

. June 8th, 2008 4:54 PM

How fragile would Gross be then?

Lalapizzame June 8th, 2008 5:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3656304)
How fragile would Gross be then?

If 204 EVs are taken from those EVs... should be
316 HP and 296 Defense. I wouldn't call that fragile. :D

. June 14th, 2008 7:59 AM

I'm really starting to consider Heatran over Metagross. It covers my fire support, and it can use Lucario to it's advantage on taking those fire attacks and Will O Wisps.

If I choose Heatran, which set would be most effective on this team?

Lalapizzame June 14th, 2008 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3672308)
I'm really starting to consider Heatran over Metagross. It covers my fire support, and it can use Lucario to it's advantage on taking those fire attacks and Will O Wisps.

If I choose Heatran, which set would be most effective on this team?

Your team lacks any kind of Special attacking so I would choose Specs:

[email protected] Specs
Modest
40 HP/252 Special Attack/216 Speed
Fire Blast/Flamethrower/Overheat
Dragon Pulse
Earth Power
Explosion

No need for HP Ice since now you OHKO the Dragons with Dragon Pulse. =D I prefer Flamethrower over the other 2 moves since it has more PP and accuracy than the other two and doesn't really care about the loss of power because Choice Specs gives it plenty of power. =D Earth Power for coverage and strength and also gives you something to hit other Specs Heatran with. =D Explosion to hurt Blissey or something if you're about to die.

. June 14th, 2008 11:28 AM

So, do you think Metagross is the weakest link on my team? And thanks for the set. I'll use it ;D

Lalapizzame June 14th, 2008 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tyranitar (Post 3672754)
So, do you think Metagross is the weakest link on my team? And thanks for the set. I'll use it ;D

It seems like it was the weakest Physical sweeper when you already have 2 other ones, you could use the space for a Special Sweeper by kicking Metagross out. =/ The 5 other pokemon were fine though. =D

. June 21st, 2008 4:57 PM

Well, I replaced Vaporeon with Tentacruel so I get Toxic Spikes support as well as much needed Rapid Spin support. It also counters Mixape nicely.

Now for another problem; DDTar or CBTar?

Ársa June 21st, 2008 5:07 PM

Your team isn't liking Mixape. :( Stealth Rock damage and Grass Knot/Thunderpunch is a problem. Unfortunately, removing something else to more bolster the problem will open up weaknesses in other places. Vappy is a good choice, just make sure that the opponent doesn't have a Mixape before you allow it to be damaged too severly. (As I'm sure you already know. :P)

~T_S

. June 21st, 2008 5:10 PM

I switched Vappy for Tentacruel since it counters Mixape better and can Spin away spikes and set up some of it's own.

Ársa June 21st, 2008 5:15 PM

I would also like to see Ice Beam over Crunch on your T-Tar. Hippowdon leads hate it, as do Specsmence. Gliscor is also nullified to an extent, assuming you can survive an Earthquake. (Not sure on that, but I think you would rather it switches in)

Pursuit should be more than enough, it still OHKO's Gengar and Azelf etc, even if they don't switch.

~T_S

. June 21st, 2008 5:29 PM

I don't really fear Hippowdon or Specsmence. Specsmence will outspeed me anyway, and Stone Edge does a beefy amount of damage even with Intimidation in account.

And Crunch does a nice amount of damage to things like Bronzong (2HKO, OHKO if a critical hit) I prefer it over Ice Beam.

Anti June 21st, 2008 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortured_Soul (Post 3693095)
I would also like to see Ice Beam over Crunch on your T-Tar. Hippowdon leads hate it, as do Specsmence. Gliscor is also nullified to an extent, assuming you can survive an Earthquake. (Not sure on that, but I think you would rather it switches in)

Pursuit should be more than enough, it still OHKO's Gengar and Azelf etc, even if they don't switch.

~T_S

CBtar without Crunch is nothing short of a joke (come on, Cresselia walls you - now that's sad for something with 134 base attack holding a Choice Band with a Dark STAB).

Honestly I don't find Pursuit useful. Nobody even switches their pokemon out since Pursuit is so common, so you can easily Crunch that Celebi or Cresselia to bits. Hippowdon is going to wall you anyways, and being stuck on Ice Beam coming off a weak special attack stat (for a sweeper's standards) and giving a lot of pretty terrifying stuff a free switch-in (think SDluke and even Heracross).

I must also ask what MixApe EVER uses Thunderpunch (or any Infernape for that matter)?

I must ALSO ask you KT...since when is CBtar a surprise? It has mostly the same counters as the DDer anyways so stuff expecting DDtar probably isn't going to care a whole lot about CBtar being your set, if they are surprised at all.

This team also suffers from weakness to Luvdisc leads, who Rain Dance up on Tyranitar and poison it with Toxic!

EDIT: Wait, people actually switch SpecsMence into Tyranitar? Seriously, even Bulky Salamence gets demolished by CB Stone Edge >_<

. June 21st, 2008 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti Pop Culture Warrior (Post 3693146)
CBtar without Crunch is nothing short of a joke (come on, Cresselia walls you - now that's sad for something with 134 base attack holding a Choice Band with a Dark STAB).

Honestly I don't find Pursuit useful. Nobody even switches their pokemon out since Pursuit is so common, so you can easily Crunch that Celebi or Cresselia to bits. Hippowdon is going to wall you anyways, and being stuck on Ice Beam coming off a weak special attack stat (for a sweeper's standards) and giving a lot of pretty terrifying stuff a free switch-in (think SDluke and even Heracross).

I must also ask what MixApe EVER uses Thunderpunch (or any Infernape for that matter)?

I must ALSO ask you KT...since when is CBtar a surprise? It has mostly the same counters as the DDer anyways so stuff expecting DDtar probably isn't going to care a whole lot about CBtar being your set, if they are surprised at all.

This team also suffers from weakness to Luvdisc leads, who Rain Dance up on Tyranitar and poison it with Toxic!

EDIT: Wait, people actually switch SpecsMence into Tyranitar?

Not many expect CBTar. They expect DDer, and with DDer, there is usually Taunt involved. But I can see your point.

I dislike Pursuit. I hardly ever use it. Is there a better choice that goes over Pursuit? Aerial Ace? Focus Punch? Need opinions plesh.

Aquilae June 21st, 2008 6:26 PM

AERIAL ACE 2HKOS MACHAMP!

Just use Pursuit, it allows you to beat up Azelfs and other stuff as well. Pursuit can change the whole momentum of the match being able to KO weak pokemon. With Blissey now losing Wish and dropping Protect on a whole CBtar can easily smack it with Pursuit doing ~40% if it stays in and ~80% if it switches out.

EDIT: Who the heck switches Specsmence into Tyranitar?

Anti June 22nd, 2008 9:57 AM

Why would they expect DDtar when it can't even sweep in the early game? That makes no sense.

You have a Dugtrio weakness of the century there. A whopping 5 pokemon are taken out by it, four more realistically (seeing as an unboosted Extremespeed from Lucario would shave about half its health off and Blissey's Ice Beam would do the rest, so one of them would survive).

Tentacruel, Tyranitar, and Heatran are all hopeless against it, easily being OHKOed. Blissey loses too, but can weaken it enough that Lucario can take it out with Extremespeed. Still, losing 4 pokemon obviously is going to destroy you. I'd try Scarf Tran to help with that, and maybe go back to Vaporeon >>> Tentacruel.

. July 2nd, 2008 2:01 AM

Team is updated. Made a lot of changes and I hope they're for the best.

Aquilae July 3rd, 2008 12:12 AM

Taunt is near useless on DDtar as you are sacrificing a great STAB move, Stone Edge, just to deal with these pokemon. Skarm cannot threaten you and would be forced to Whirlwind giving you an opportunity to damage Skarm further.

I don't like the Garchomp weakness. Garchomp completely obliterates your team. Even with Ice Fang on Gliscor (which you currently do not have), and Ice Beam on Swampert those two would fail to OHKO it. Heatran can revenge-kill it but mostly this threat isn't covered well.

EDIT: In my battle with you I noticed that you have a really gaping Mamoswine weakness. Simply put, EQ hits and 1-2HKOs everything in your team - Blissey provides free switchins all the time and sending in Heatran on Mamo makes it quite obvious that it is Scarfed (or that it has Shuca Berry), which would discourage Mamo from staying in.

. July 3rd, 2008 12:35 AM

Is there anything that can counter both Mamo and Chomp that makes a pretty good lead? Or will one of my guys have to go?

And Taunt kind of protects Tar from status moves and phazing.

Anti July 3rd, 2008 12:36 AM

It's not a good lead, but Cresselia (and also Mesprit) counter Garchomp and Mamoswine. I wouldn't really stress yourself out over getting a good lead...it isn't that big of a deal.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure Aquilae is aware of Taunt's function you know ;/ DDtar is for late-game stuff anyways...you never even need to Taunt if you play it right.


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