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Chibaymega12 May 29th, 2008 7:44 AM

Team Help?
 
Hey, I've been reworking my team, and i've been wandering how to make it better(i.e. what to battle it against to get it's ev's up, new moves, items, etc). Here's my team.

Empoleon Lv. 74
Quirky Nature
HP: 238
Attack: 167
Def: 161
Sp. Atk: 195
Sp. Def: 166
Speed: 139
Moves:
Hydro Cannon, Flash Cannon, Surf, Drill Peck

Electivire Lv. 72
Calm Nature
HP: 202
Atk: 187
Def: 166
Sp. Atk: 172
Sp. Def: 163
Speed: 172
Moves: Thunder, Giga Impact, Iron Tail, Thunderbolt

Charizard Lv. 88
Quirky Nature
HP: 268
Def: 174
Sp. Atk: 217
Sp. Def: 171
Speed: 234
Moves: Fly, Flamethrower, Earthquake, Blast Burn

Garchomp Lv. 76
Hasty Nature
HP 266
Atk: 238
Def: 171
Sp. Atk: 150
Sp. Def: 149
Speed: 222
Moves: Fire Blast, Dragon Pulse, Earthquake, Crunch

Espeon Lv. 56
Hasty Nature
Atk: 96
Def: 87
Sp. Atk: 167
Sp. Def: 137
Speed: 168
Moves: Swift, Psychic, Bite, Psybeam.

And i'm working on a Larvitar, it just hatched, i need to know what to battle it against, what moves I should work towards, etc.

Please help me utilize my Pokemon's stats to pick the best moves for it. You may recreate the move list in your favor, and tell me what i need to train my pokemon specifically against to get the best out of my pokemon. Thanx
~CBM12

LethalTexture May 29th, 2008 7:51 AM

This should really go in Strategies and Movesets.

*moves*

Chibaymega12 May 29th, 2008 7:55 AM

Deano!? You're a moderator now? lol

Dark Azelf May 29th, 2008 7:56 AM

We need evs and not stats before we can do anything =/. Levels also do not matter.

The natures are horrible and so are the move sets.

Ill leave this open for the time being so you can at least get help on those movesets and natures etc, however I think reading the stickies would be in your best interests. They tell you what to battle against for evs.



Edit: Also is this for in game or actual competitive battling ?, If its for ingame there is not much point in this thread as said before "A team of magikarps can win ingame"

Chibaymega12 May 29th, 2008 8:14 AM

its for actual competetive battling. So are you saying make a new team from scratch?
And I've beat tons of people here at PC with the first four pokemon on the list, and variations of the last two. How would you say i should change the movesets? And i can give the Ev's if you want them.

Dark Azelf May 29th, 2008 8:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibaymega12 (Post 3623042)
its for actual competetive battling. So are you saying make a new team from scratch?
And I've beat tons of people here at PC with the first four pokemon on the list, and variations of the last two. How would you say i should change the movesets? And i can give the Ev's if you want them.

Yeah, give evs. Stats are moot, its evs we need.


Also, it would be in your best interests to rebreed for beneficial natures and Ivs and possibly egg moves aswell. All these give you the edge in battle.

Chibaymega12 May 29th, 2008 8:28 AM

Oky doky
I lied, i can't give you the Ev's
so rebreed, get the right iv's, right natures, then begin training? If so, then close this thread.

LethalTexture May 29th, 2008 8:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibaymega12 (Post 3623072)
so rebreed, get the right iv's, right natures, then begin training? If so, then close this thread.

Would it not be more benefitial to get a rate, outlining what moves and EVs you need for your Pokemon first, rather that diving in at the deepend and not know whether what you're going is right or wrong?

Dark Azelf May 29th, 2008 8:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibaymega12 (Post 3623072)
Oky doky
I lied, i can't give you the Ev's
so rebreed, get the right iv's, right natures, then begin training? If so, then close this thread.

Edit the first post with your changes, evs mainly, im all for helping people, so no need to close it =). Then you will have something to go on so you know what natures etc to breed for.


EDIT : DD beat me =p

Chibaymega12 May 29th, 2008 8:32 AM

i've made an outline already of the EV's i want for my pokemon, and i'd like to know what sucks so bad about my moveset.

El Gofre May 29th, 2008 9:13 AM

It would help if you put your proposed EV spreads in, but until then i'll rate the movesets:
Empoleon: You've broken the first two rules of movesets- Only one move of each type and no two turn moves. Post if you want an offensive or defensive poke and I'll post an appropriate set.
Electrivire: Again, never use two-turn moves and two moves of the same types also sucks. Iron tail is just a super-sucky move. Electrivire should run Thunderbolt/Ice Punch/Cross Chop/Earthquake iirc
Charizard: As above. Charizard should run Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower/Air Slash/Focus Blast
Garchomp: Garchomp is possibly the best physical sweeper out there, special attacks are a waste of its potential. It needs Swords Dance/Dragon Claw/Earthquake/Fire Fang
Espeon: Its Attack stat sucks, no bite. Only one psyhic move too. Espeon wants Substitute/Calm Mind/Baton Pass/ Psychic.

Those are the standard movesets, but at the moment there's no point you trying to get them. Rebreed for natures ect as already said, then start reating movesets. You also lack walls at the moment, so you'll need a drastic rethink of you team's composition.

Sora_8920 May 29th, 2008 9:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gofre (Post 3623134)
It would help if you put your proposed EV spreads in, but until then i'll rate the movesets:
Empoleon: You've broken the first two rules of movesets- Only one move of each type and no two turn moves. Post if you want an offensive or defensive poke and I'll post an appropriate set.
Electrivire: Again, never use two-turn moves and two moves of the same types also sucks. Iron tail is just a super-sucky move. Electrivire should run Thunderbolt/Ice Punch/Cross Chop/Earthquake iirc
Charizard: As above. Charizard should run Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower/Air Slash/Focus Blast
Garchomp: Garchomp is possibly the best physical sweeper out there, special attacks are a waste of its potential. It needs Swords Dance/Dragon Claw/Earthquake/Fire Fang
Espeon: Its Attack stat sucks, no bite. Only one psyhic move too. Espeon wants Substitute/Calm Mind/Baton Pass/ Psychic.

Those are the standard movesets, but at the moment there's no point you trying to get them. Rebreed for natures ect as already said, then start reating movesets. You also lack walls at the moment, so you'll need a drastic rethink of you team's composition.


Well, except for stuff like standard Specsmence, anyway.

Anyway, standard format is this:

Pokemon Gender (Optional) @ Item ** nickname (Optional)
Trait:
EVs:
Nature (+, -)
- Move #1
- Move #2
- Move #3
- Move #4. You can also replace the hyphens with these if you wish: ~

Anyway, there's two sets for Empoleon: The Special Wall; and the Agility Set. I'm not too much of an expert on either sets, so somebody else can give you them. The Agility Set should run Modest/Timid @ Surf / Ice Beam / Grass Knot / Agility.

El Gofre May 29th, 2008 9:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2008 (Post 3623188)

Well, except for stuff like standard Specsmence, anyway.

Anyway, standard format is this:

Pokemon Gender (Optional) @ Item ** nickname (Optional)
Trait:
EVs:
Nature (+, -)
- Move #1
- Move #2
- Move #3
- Move #4. You can also replace the hyphens with these if you wish: ~

Anyway, there's two sets for Empoleon: The Special Wall; and the Agility Set. I'm not too much of an expert on either sets, so somebody else can give you them. The Agility Set should run Modest/Timid @ Surf / Ice Beam / Grass Knot / Agility.

There's always going to be exceptions, and I know how to lay out teams. Since he will be recreating almost the entire thread I did not deem it important to recite a fully blown team, and the movesets are arguably the most precedent problem. EVs and things can be sorted later.

Sora_8920 May 29th, 2008 9:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gofre (Post 3623200)
There's always going to be exceptions, and I know how to lay out teams. Since he will be recreating almost the entire thread I did not deem it important to recite a fully blown team, and the movesets are arguably the most precedent problem. EVs and things can be sorted later.


Actually, by that I was talking to the thread starter.
:P

Dark Azelf May 29th, 2008 9:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibaymega12 (Post 3623078)
i've made an outline already of the EV's i want for my pokemon, and i'd like to know what sucks so bad about my moveset.


I still dont see any evs, just stats =/


Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibaymega12 (Post 3622997)

[email protected]
252 HP / 252 SP.DEF / 6 SP.ATT
Calm nature
- Surf
- Ice beam
- Stealth Rock
- Roar


Hyper Beam moves are bad, they just allow you to get owned by revenge kills when you kill something they can just send something in whilst you recharge =/. This can act as your sp.wall.

[email protected] Orb
Mild Nature
80 ATT / 252 SP.ATT / 176 SPEED
- Cross Chop
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Hidden power Ice / Hidden power Grass / Ice Punch



Mix sweeping Electivire, probably the most useful out of its sets.


Again, Hyper Beam moves suck. Not only do you get revenge killed easily, you do more with t-bolt over two turns.


[email protected] Orb
252 ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 HP
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang

SD Chomp.



[/B]


You have multiple moves here of the same type on each pokemon, which offer little coverage. Vary your movesets.


Comments in bold.

Charizard is hampered by Stealth Rock, so there will be better options. It strips 50% from his HP each time he comes in


i think this would go better >> it, to help with your weavile and Tyranitar problem.


[email protected]
252 HP / 252 ATT / 6 DEF
Adamant Nature
Trait : guts
- Cross Chop
- Ice Punch / Stone Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Also helps your team absorb status.

Espeon :There are better options for this team and i do think a solid fighting resist will go a long way here and so would a Gyarados and Heracross counter.


Try this instead


[email protected]
252 HP / 252 DEF / 6 SP.ATT
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Will-o-wisp / Taunt
- Pain Split

Now, when i use this, Breloom is problematic with Substitute and Leech Seed, Taunt stops that AND other physical attacker from setting up. But yeah it deals with you HUGE heracross and Gyarados weakness and is your physical wall. TO stop most physical sweepers cold.


As for empoleon, without any Wish Support i dont see it functioning to well as a sole sp.wall.Try snorlax or Blissey, instead of it, preferably blissey as you dont need status absorb with Machamp on the team.

[email protected]
40 HP / 252 DEF / 216 SP.DEF
Calm nature
Trait : natural Cure
- Seismic Toss
- Thunderwave
- Softboiled.
- Aromatheraphy / Ice Beam

Supports your team as well as walling special attackers.


As for Electivire, i dont see as its particularly good this metagame and Mixape hurts you, try this

[email protected]
160 HP / 132 SP.ATT / 216 SPEED
Timid Nature
Trait : Natural Cure
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

>>E-Vire

This helps your team deal with residual damage, such as Stealth Rock, Spikes and Toxic spikes via removing them with Rapid Spin, this also beats up Garchomp for you.

So your team will now be.

Weezing/Machamp/Blissey/Garchomp/Starmie/<Special sweeper of your choice really>

Ive sorted your team out, so its less metagame weak.

Sorry to remove loads here, but there are so many better options aswell. Just some things to consider.



EDIT: Gofre covered the majority of it though.

Sora_8920 May 29th, 2008 9:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 3623216)
I still dont see any evs, just stats =/




Comments in bold.

Charizard is hampered by Stealth Rock, so are will be better options. It strips 50% from his HP each time he comes in


i think this would go better >> it, to help with your weavile and Tyranitar problem.


[email protected]
252 HP / 252 ATT / 6 DEF
Adamant Nature
Trait : guts
- Cross Chop
- Ice Punch / Stone Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Also helps your team absorb status.

Espeon :There are better options for this team and i do think a solid fighting resist will go a long way here and so would a Gyarados and Heracross counter.


Try this instead


[email protected]
252 HP / 252 DEF / 6 SP.ATT
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Will-o-wisp / Taunt
- Pain Split

Now, when i use this, Breloom is problematic with Substitute and Leech Seed, Taunt stops that AND other physical attacker from setting up. But yeah it deals with you HUGE heracross and Gyarados weakness and is your physical wall. TO stop most physical sweepers cold.


As for empoleon, without any Wish Support i dont see it functioning to well as a sole sp.wall.Try snorlax or Blissey, instead of it, preferably blissey as you dont need status absorb with Machamp on the team.

[email protected]
40 HP / 252 DEF / 216 SP.DEF
Calm nature
Trait : natural Cure
- Seismic Toss
- Thunderwave
- Softboiled.
- Aromatheraphy / Ice Beam

Supports your team as well as walling special attackers.


As for Electivire, i dont see as its particularly good this metagame and Mixape hurts you, try this

[email protected]
160 HP / 132 SP.ATT / 216 SPEED
Timid Nature
Trait : Natural Cure
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

>>E-Vire

This helps your team deal with residual damage, such as Stealth Rock, Spikes and Toxic spikes via removing them with Rapid Spin, this also beats up Garchomp for you.

So your team will now be.

Weezing/Machamp/Blissey/Garchomp/Starmie/<Special sweeper of your choice really>

Ive sorted your team out, so its less metagame weak.

Sorry to remove loads here, but there are so many better options aswell.


Yes, status is irrelevant, as aforementioned. No EVs = not a competitive team. Not to mention, if you don't EV Train, you won't do well against people who actually do EV Train. =/

El Gofre May 29th, 2008 9:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itachi 2008 (Post 3623209)

Actually, by that I was talking to the thread starter.
:P

Yeah, I knew that..... ;)

Chibaymega12 May 29th, 2008 10:06 AM

I'm not willing to change my team that much, but i appreciate the thought.
Why would i want my Empoleon's Sp. Attack Ev to only be 6?
I agree with the Ev's on E-Vire and Chompy, and the movesets are great. I don't really like the idea of getting rid of Charizard, but if it's best for my team, i could pick another pokemon to fit the balance better. I want a normal typed pokemon, but i've never really considered one in my team before now. Also, do i really need a fire pokemon if i have other pokemon that have moves to take down pokemon that are weak against fire? I like to have a Psychic pokemon in there for good measure, a good Sp. Attacker. And then I'd want a bug or dark type in there.

So my team would now look something like this: Empoleon/Garchomp/Electivire/Normal type/Espeon/Dark or Bug type
Hows that? Better?

Sora_8920 May 29th, 2008 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibaymega12 (Post 3623293)
I'm not willing to change my team that much, but i appreciate the thought.
Why would i want my Empoleon's Sp. Attack Ev to only be 6?
I agree with the Ev's on E-Vire and Chompy, and the movesets are great. I don't really like the idea of getting rid of Charizard, but if it's best for my team, i could pick another pokemon to fit the balance better. I want a normal typed pokemon, but i've never really considered one in my team before now. Also, do i really need a fire pokemon if i have other pokemon that have moves to take down pokemon that are weak against fire? I like to have a Psychic pokemon in there for good measure, a good Sp. Attacker. And then I'd want a bug or dark type in there.

So my team would now look something like this: Empoleon/Garchomp/Electivire/Normal type/Espeon/Dark or Bug type
Hows that? Better?


He posted the special walling set, which focuses on Empoleon's defensive status, rather than it's offensive.


Chibaymega12 May 29th, 2008 10:22 AM

oh, alright. Would it be better for Empoleon to be defensive then? Depending on my new team? also, instead of that last bug or dark type pokemon, what would you suggest to meet my teams needs? I'm leaning toward Porygon-Z or Blissey for my Normal type. Suggestions?

Sora_8920 May 29th, 2008 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibaymega12 (Post 3623327)
oh, alright. Would it be better for Empoleon to be defensive then? Depending on my new team? also, instead of that last bug or dark type pokemon, what would you suggest to meet my teams needs? I'm leaning toward Porygon-Z or Blissey for my Normal type. Suggestions?

If you use Blissey, then it would better not to use Special Wall Empoleon. :P

Mm, if you're keeping Charizard, you might want to get a rapid spinner. The set Dark Azelf posted is fine.

Chibaymega12 May 29th, 2008 12:18 PM

naw, i'm not keeping charizard unless you think it'd be a good idea.

Sora_8920 May 29th, 2008 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibaymega12 (Post 3623632)
naw, i'm not keeping charizard unless you think it'd be a good idea.

Nope, having to have a Rapid Spinner isn't so cool. =)

airconditioning May 29th, 2008 1:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibaymega12 (Post 3623327)
oh, alright. Would it be better for Empoleon to be defensive then? Depending on my new team? also, instead of that last bug or dark type pokemon, what would you suggest to meet my teams needs? I'm leaning toward Porygon-Z or Blissey for my Normal type. Suggestions?

... Porygon-Z and Blissey are COMPLETELY different Pokemon. Why would you compare the two?

When making a team, the most important part of a Pokemon is the role it plays on a team. Typing, movesets, and all that junk is really important too, but a Pokemon's role is what really defines it. There are a number of roles that Pokemon can play:

*Sweeper (Physical, Special, or Mixed) - Pokemon that hit hard and fast, and often have frail defenses. The main for of offense for a normal team.
*Wall (Physical, Special, or Mixed) - Pokemon that are made to absorb hits. Made to stop sweepers in their tracks. Often have moves to support the team. The main form of defense for a team.
*Tank (Physical or Special) - Bulky Pokemon. They can take a few hits, while hitting hard right back. Mostly offensive move-wise, but may have a move or two to support the team. Offer a decent balance between offense and defense.

From there, roles begin to break down further:

*Choice Sweeper - Any sweeper that uses a Choice item.
*Setup Sweeper - Any sweeper that uses setup moves (Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, Dragon Dance) along with attacks.
*Cleric - Any Pokemon with Heal Bell or Aromatherapy that can heal the team.
*Statuser - Any Pokemon that can inflict status.
*Baton Passer - Any Pokemon that uses Baton Pass to pass stat boosts to a teammate.
*Hazer/ Pseudo Hazer - Any Pokemon that can remove an opponent's stat boosts, via Haze (Hazing) or Roar/ Whirlwind (Pseudo Hazing).
*Stealth Rocker - Any Pokemon that can set up an entry hazard, such as Stealth Rock or Spikes.
*Rapid Spinner - Any Pokemon with Rapid Spin that can remove entry hazards such as Spikes and Stealth Rock.

Just a few. As I said, a role define what a Pokemon does, how they do it, and how it affects your team. Now that we've finished with the lesson, let's look at your team, and what roles your Pokemon play.

*Empoleon - Special Wall, can also serve as a PHazer/ Stealth Rocker
*Electivire - Physical Sweeper
*Garchomp - Physical Setup Sweeper (assuming you go with D_A's Swords Dance set)
*Espeon - Baton Passer/ Special Setup Sweeper

Now, when making a team, it's best to focus on balance (for a team like this, anyway- there are stall teams, all-out offense teams, Baton Pass teams, but for now, let's make a regular team). Now, we have two Physical sweepers and one Special sweeper (of sorts). However, there's only one wall on the team. Since Empoleon has your Special side covered, you should focus on getting physical walls. This is where typing comes into play, as you need Pokemon that can come in on types that Empoleon is weak against. Someone that can come in on Fighting/ Earthquake would work well, as well as a Poke that can take a Thunderbolt.

But I don't feel like giving suggestions, so do the rest yourself.

sims796 May 29th, 2008 4:28 PM

Everything that airconditoning said & more can be found in none other than the stickies! I suggest you go thier for even more team building help!


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