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-   -   Most intimidating physical sweeper? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=148335)

. July 30th, 2008 11:56 PM

Most intimidating physical sweeper?
 
Who do you think is the most intimidating physical sweeper now in D/P (includes Pokes from other generations)

I ask this because the physical/special side leaves a lot of hard-hitters in the dust, and a lot of unused sweepers at their highest point.

Me? I say Garchomp (and I know a lot of you are going to say so as well) It has Sand Veil, meaning it's a risk to hit it with it's fragile counters. It also gets SD Outrage which can annoy the heck out of anyone.

World King July 31st, 2008 12:12 AM

You're right: Garchomp...

That Shark's simply too conventionally strong. Setting up a Swords Dance, getting a Evasion Boost with Sand Veil and Holding a Yache Berry to increase its surviveability... I surrender whenever I see a Garchomp like that...

. July 31st, 2008 12:15 AM

Also considering it has no true "counter" since Fire/Dragon/Ground hit everything in the game for neutral. The best I found was Deoxys-e while being bulky.

Jesus oƒ Suburbia July 31st, 2008 12:24 AM

Garchomp is perfect for the job

btw Tyranitar + Garchomp + abilities= good combo

at least thats what i think

Gymnotide July 31st, 2008 12:27 AM

My Mamoswine beats Garchomps :K
Ch-Choice Scarf, anyone?

. July 31st, 2008 12:46 AM

Mamoswine is my personal D/P favorite =3 Ice Shard hammers Garchomp with no Yache Berry.

El Gofre July 31st, 2008 3:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gymnotide (Post 3812777)
My Mamoswine beats Garchomps :K
Ch-Choice Scarf, anyone?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vance (Post 3812827)
Mamoswine is my personal D/P favorite =3 Ice Shard hammers Garchomp with no Yache Berry.

Only an idiot would keep garchomp in against mamoswine, so it isnt a valid argument. Plus it's almost impossible for Swine to switch in- After a single SD any of garchomp's attacks will OHKO Mamoswine.

But yeah, Garchomp gets my vote too.

_Prince_ July 31st, 2008 3:45 AM

Gyarados! god the thing is a beast once it gets a couple DD's in. Yeah I suppose Garchomp is, however I don't fear it much. So I'll go with Gyarados ;)
Did I forget Lucario, that's another threatening sweeper, heck Dos I'll stick with.

Zetta-Chan July 31st, 2008 5:14 AM

Garchomp...
They annoy with SD then earthquake.

Johnnyboi July 31st, 2008 5:25 AM

Garchomp is so annoying, it's a bit too much for OU if you ask me. It owns most things, and also: It's ugly. Salamence is ugly aswell, Dragonite and Tyranitar are much, MUCH better done IMO.

GeneralGuy July 31st, 2008 5:27 AM

Gyarados. STAB 80 base power Waterfall, along with Earthquake and Ice Fang/Stone Edge makes him one of the most threatening forces in the game. He's one of the top three leading pokes used in battle too. Once he gets two or three DDs in, he's nearly unstoppable.

AJ™ July 31st, 2008 5:28 AM

Most intimidating physical sweeper would probably be a Choice Banded Deoxys-A

D:

GeneralGuy July 31st, 2008 5:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ™ (Post 3813220)
Most intimidating physical sweeper would probably be a Choice Banded Deoxys-A

D:

Not exactly. He gets OHKOd by Ice Shard/Sucker Punch/Extremespeed, etc.

AJ™ July 31st, 2008 5:40 AM

If you don't have a priority move, he's scary.

supersmashbro93 July 31st, 2008 10:53 AM

i say dd gyrados one dance and it can sweep

Matt-O July 31st, 2008 11:04 AM

Bulky Dos is what I fear. They're hard to kill and a pain to try walling.

. July 31st, 2008 7:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gofre (Post 3813104)
Only an idiot would keep garchomp in against mamoswine, so it isnt a valid argument. Plus it's almost impossible for Swine to switch in- After a single SD any of garchomp's attacks will OHKO Mamoswine.

But yeah, Garchomp gets my vote too.

That's your daily opponent on official server Gofre.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralGuy (Post 3813225)
Not exactly. He gets OHKOd by Ice Shard/Sucker Punch/Extremespeed, etc.

Quick Attack from Swellow too. STAB ftw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt-O (Post 3813862)
Bulky Dos is what I fear. They're hard to kill and a pain to try walling.

LO Dos >>>> BulkyDos.

pokemaniacjason July 31st, 2008 8:45 PM

honestly, garchomp. very little can conter it. very unpredictable as well.

~*Champion Shirona*~ July 31st, 2008 9:12 PM

Are you kidding? ONE ICE BEAM FROM MILOTIC, the stupid Garchomp is GONE.

:16:

pokemaniacjason July 31st, 2008 9:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~*Champion Shirona*~ (Post 3814703)
Are you kidding? ONE ICE BEAM FROM MILOTIC, the stupid Garchomp is GONE.

:16:

do you know even know how abundant yache-chomps are in the field of competitive battling?
garchomps are also faster than milotics and besides, a good player will not leave in his or her garchomp with a full hp milotic :)

Angelic Diablo July 31st, 2008 10:28 PM

Despite how poor its speed is, I find Super Luck Absol to be a pain to take out, Crit Hax galore

As far as OU pokemon, I say Heracross, yes every team carries a counter, but that's just proof of concept

~*Champion Shirona*~ July 31st, 2008 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelic Diablo (Post 3814953)
Despite how poor its speed is, I find Super Luck Absol to be a pain to take out, Crit Hax galore

As far as OU pokemon, I say Heracross, yes every team carries a counter, but that's just proof of concept

Speaking of counter. I also hate Wobbufett. They have Destiny Bond and lot of H.P.

:16:

pokemaniacjason July 31st, 2008 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~*Champion Shirona*~ (Post 3814999)
Speaking of counter. I also hate Wobbufett. They have Destiny Bond and lot of H.P.

:16:

destiny bond usually works very well with something very fast but frail like froslass or gengar. this is because they can get the first move and get the bond out, then the obvious super effective (or non) attack will some and kill it. wobbuffet lacks speed and is very bulky, so when your oppenent sees the destiny bond on the second turn, they will switch out :)

Sora_8920 July 31st, 2008 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vance (Post 3814494)
That's your daily opponent on official server Gofre.



Quick Attack from Swellow too. STAB ftw.



LO Dos >>>> BulkyDos.

Lol. Most people use Smogon Server nowadays, though. ._.

Ito_Igami August 2nd, 2008 8:32 PM

In a sandstorm I would say Garchomp is the most intimidating non sandstorm my vote goes to Gyarados.

GeneralGuy August 3rd, 2008 8:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~*Champion Shirona*~ (Post 3814999)
Speaking of counter. I also hate Wobbufett. They have Destiny Bond and lot of H.P.

:16:

Wobbufett is completely useless if Taunt is used. Any he's not that difficult to take down.
  • Megahorn from an Adamant CB Heracross.
  • Crunch from an Adamant CB Tyranitar.
  • Hyper Beam from a Modest Specs Porygon-Z with Adaptability.

Azonic August 3rd, 2008 11:27 AM

Garchomp, most indefinitely. Yache Berry + Sand Veil is a headache. Counters really can't take a hit, from Outrage. They can only hope to outspeed Garchomp and hit it with a supereffective move. Sand Veil ruins a lot of hope for connecting a hit, and that turn you take may be your only chance before you faint.

Heracross, another threatening sweeper. I hate it. :x
Quote:

Originally Posted by ~*Champion Shirona*~ (Post 3814703)
Are you kidding? ONE ICE BEAM FROM MILOTIC, the stupid Garchomp is GONE.

:16:

Here are calculations, assuming both Pokemon have flawless IVs on all stats.

Icebeam from Neutral 0 Sp.Atk EV'd Milotic has less than a 50% chance of OHKOing Neutral 0 Sp.Def Garchomp. Not to mention Garchomp frequently uses Yache Berry.

Neutral 252 Attack Garchomp w/ Life Orb + 1 Swords Dance OHKOs Positive 252 Defense Milotic w/o Marvel Scale Boost.

Milotic therefore = failure as a Garchomp counter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~*Champion Shirona*~ (Post 3814999)
Speaking of counter. I also hate Wobbufett. They have Destiny Bond and lot of H.P.

:16:

Yeah, because Destiny Bond from a 33 Speed Pokemon sure is threatening. =/ Destiny Bond only works if the user is faster than the opponent. Wobbuffet is also not a physical sweeper.

Points overruled.

Wuchuhurd August 3rd, 2008 3:30 PM

I think Electivire deserves a mention. 123 base attack +Expert Belt+ ThunderPunch/IcePunch/Cross Chop/EQ hits 13 of the 17 types for a super effective hit. get that motor drive started and you've got something.....

Azonic August 3rd, 2008 3:46 PM

Not really. As of now, Electivire is actually on topic of going Borderline BL instead of Overused OU Tiers. It's not much of a threat anymore and has a TON of Pokemon that counter and wall it effectively. :x

It's coverage may seem attractive at first, but when you really test it out in competetive... it's terrible.

Edit: This got moved to S&M? 0.0;

. August 3rd, 2008 5:13 PM

Blegh, Evire is such an overrated, walled-by-everything-with-defense-EVs kind of Pokemon. Heracross does it's job 10x better.

Magmortified August 3rd, 2008 6:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralGuy (Post 3822101)
Wobbufett is completely useless if Taunt is used. Any he's not that difficult to take down.
  • Megahorn from an Adamant CB Heracross.
  • Crunch from an Adamant CB Tyranitar.
  • Hyper Beam from a Modest Specs Porygon-Z with Adaptability.

Okay, let's assuming that you are playing well with Wobbuffet. Why the heck would you send him on on something that uses freaking Taunt? Why would you keep him in on Heracross (and, you'd need for something to be dead from Counter/Mirror Coat or something to even be able to bring Hera in on Wobbuffet), Tyranitar, or any of the things you've said?

The idea behind Wobbuffet is picking your battles. The idea behind Wobbuffet is not to send him up against things that are going to kill him dead.

Quote:

Icebeam from Neutral 0 Sp.Atk EV'd Milotic has less than a 50% chance of OHKOing Neutral 0 Sp.Def Garchomp. Not to mention Garchomp frequently uses Yache Berry.

Neutral 252 Attack Garchomp w/ Life Orb + 1 Swords Dance OHKOs Positive 252 Defense Milotic w/o Marvel Scale Boost.

Milotic therefore = failure as a Garchomp counter.
Smogon usage statistics say that Yache Berry's definitely the most common (and, therefore, isn't usually in danger of an OHKO from Chomp's SD Outrage). If anything, Milotic can serve to waste Chomp's Yache Berry, then switch to a Steel type or something and Recover off later... or something. I agree that Milo's no full counter to Chomp, though.

CBChomp eats Milotic. =X

I nominate Gyarados and Salamence for most Intimidating physical sweepers.

I do kinda watch out for LODos and SDLuke a lot, though. =S

revelp8 August 3rd, 2008 6:30 PM

Machamp does the job with Guts, along with technician quick attack Scizor

Anti August 3rd, 2008 6:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gofre (Post 3813104)
Only an idiot would keep garchomp in against mamoswine, so it isnt a valid argument.

Really? Mamoswine can't be mentioned as a great Garchomp revenge killer because "only an idiot would keep Garchomp in"? Alright guys, I guess bringing up Azumarill as a great revenge killer for Rock Polish Rhyperior isn't valid because "Rhyperior wouldn't stay in." Your logic is quite flawed there =/ Mamoswine most certainly deserves a mention. If it forces Garchomp to switch, guess what? It has dfone its job anyways (forcing the "best" OU pokemon out).

For me, it has got to be Heracross. Toxic Spikes are VERY common, and given Guts and Facade Gliscor and Weezing (oh and Bulky Mence lol) aren't the "counters" people think they are. Also, his STAB moves totally destroy everything except flyers and ghosts, and Stone Edge takes care of that. If you get Gut Facade CBcross to get its boost, nothing gets in its way. Nothing.

It can also run a SD set very effectively and has a very impressive special defense score. Toxic also beats all of its counters except Weezing, which isn't common at all.

As for Garchomp, it's so insanely common and abused the people are ALWAYS prepared for it (usually over prepared). It's a powerful sweeper, and despite having good base speed it's easy to revenge kill. I really like CBchomp though, who imo is one of the best CBers around.

As much as I think Evire sucks, people aren't talking about moving it down a tier, especially when its usage easily puts it into OUs. Should it be used? Well no but it is.

Just to point this out, but NOBODY uses Life Orb on Garchomp Azonic, and only Outrage will OHKO, effectively getting it revenge killed by Mamoswine or Scarf Chomp.

As for CBchomp killing it, Garchomp's different sets have different counters, just like how SpecsMence and CBmence has totally different counters. This is true for all pokemon, not just Garchomp. I don't know, I've always felt Garchomp was hyped a little too much. Yeah it's really powerful, but its speed really does hinder its ability to sweep with SD and people overlook that. Yeah 102 base is really good, but a lot can revenge kill it and I don't like my set-up sweepers getting revenge killed with ease. I guess that's why they usually have substitute lol.

Also agreeing with the Gyarados hype here. It's just a fantastic DDer and CBer.

Sorry, I just generally disagree with a lot of pretty standard thoughts and listing all of my disagreements would take too long so I'll cut this post off now :P

EDIT: Not to deny Garchomp's overwhelming power but I never really saw it as something that could sweep a team. It usually gets a kill and sometimes more but eh its speed really hurts it, despite it being pretty good.

charizard_maa August 3rd, 2008 6:55 PM

I have to agree with Anti Pop here to say that Garchomp is a bit hyped up too much. I also personally agree that it is crazy to even consider moving Garchomp to Ubers. Of course it is powerful depending on the set but really it is nothing to be fearing of. I have face a few Garchomps that are powerful but never have they tore my team up. Then goes it Sand Veil ability, useful but anybody that is hoping for luck in their battle may need to wake up since luck is just as random as Metronome. Clearly it is powerful and is an intimidating sweeper but not one to do a witch hunt on.

I would have to say Tyrantar since those can be a bit random. Their movesets are random enough and then his ability stays in the battle for a long time to lick off HP turn by turn.

Heracross is another one I go here too. Makes me think twice about throwing out a ThunderWave or something incase one comes out.

Beginnings August 3rd, 2008 7:20 PM

Definitely going to have to say [email protected] Scarf,
I have one of these monsters on my team and it cleans up nicely,
I don't even bother with a Swords Dance, because a STABed Earthquake/Outrage takes pretty much anything out, then I go ohlol as weavile/mamoswine switch in and switch out into mixape

airconditioning August 3rd, 2008 7:28 PM

Gyarados, Salamence, Masquerain, Granbull, and Mightyena. It's their ability. :|

I'd imagine the answer to this question would vary from person to person based on their team- someone with Weavile and Cresselia on their team likely wouldn't be fazed by Garchomp, but find Gyarados or Heracross extremely threatening.

Likewise, Gyarados really pisses me off.

ABYAY August 3rd, 2008 7:32 PM

Garchomp counter: Reflect Cresselia...there you go. If it Swords Dances, set up a Reflect. They've probably Swords Danced again at this point, so Ice Beam makes quick work in 2 shots, and this especially works if they're locked into Outrage. For CBChomp...Cressy stands again to force it out if it uses Quake or Fire move, but Outrage can almost 2HKO unless you beef it up severely. Prediction is your best friend.

As for terms of sweepers, Garchomp would top it for me, but I've managed to drop Garchomp each time I've faced it with revenges and such. I've had more trouble with the likes of Breloom, Salamence, or heck, even Unsaring. My current team has little protection against it.

When it comes down to it...most likely Gyarados and Heracross.

c_dog August 3rd, 2008 8:55 PM

Garchomp isn't THAT scary. I haven't been battling in a long time but garchomp never struck much fear in me. Gyarados can be annoying though.. it is a headache to counter, but I happen to think that the advance gen gyarados was much better at sweeping. D/P gyarados is less powerful as a sweeper, but it does have waterfall which can flinch hax.

Personally I hated slaking. It could only attack every other turn, but since you're suppose to switch against counters anyway, the hitting every other turn ability isn't a bad trade-off condering slaking is pretty damn powerful. I wouldn't say slaking is the best, but one of the pokemon I hated playing against.

props to those who mentioned machamp. machamp isn't as OU as some of the pokemon mentioned but is just as deadly. one of the best bulky sweepers. I always enjoyed abusing its 100% accurate ability.

Archer August 3rd, 2008 9:36 PM

It has to depend on the team.
Most teams have a counter(sort of) to Garchomp, Gyara and Hera. Most have TTar counters, although I ran into a Scarf Rampardos late-game a while ago. Scary when my Forry is gone. I took it down, but it wasn't expected.

ABYAY August 3rd, 2008 10:02 PM

Just to conclude my earlier post, the most fearsome sweeper is strongly dependent on what affects a person the most. I could say Electivire is the most fearsome sweeper if my team can't deal with it whatsoever, but yet I can counter nearly every other sweeper. I could even degrade to as I said earlier, Unsaring. You'd need strong statistical proof from a large group before you can prove anything on what is most threatening, and even then, it's situational.

Ársa August 3rd, 2008 11:23 PM

Well, currently I would say I'm most scared of Life Orb, Dragon Dance Gyarados. It annihiliates teams that aren't running a fast enough pokemon to counter after a DD, meaning usually Deoxys-E is the only option. With a single DD, any Celebi under 75% kicks the bucket, and Celebi is widely considered one of the better Gyarados counters in the game, so if it can beat arguably it's best counter, how can you stop that? It's becoming more popular, and for good reason.

Another would be Salamence, as it has so many different sets people utilize, it's almost impossible to know what your opponent is going to dish out. Someone leads with a Salamence, and you think 'OMG, SpecsMence! Quick, switch to Blissey!' Then it DD's in your face and good game.

~T_S

Anti August 3rd, 2008 11:25 PM

My newest team is Vire weak by definition and the only one I ran into today didn't hurt anything of mine. Bad example (because it's Electivire) :P

Agreeing with c_dog about Machamp. I used it on the presidents and wow, it is one of the best CBers around. It's slow so offensive teams can be troublesome, but when it lands a hit...wow. Payback is also really awesome on it, beating down psychics like it does. Medicham needed that.

EDIT: Agreeing with T_S, even though I'm surprised people haven't been using Thunder Wave Celebi which totally destroys LO Gyarados's ability to sweep. It also supports the team but eh maybe I'm just crazy...lol

Ársa August 3rd, 2008 11:31 PM

I was running T-Wave, but I found reflect helped my cause better vs other physical sweepers, and Celebi over 75% beats LO DD Gyara anywho. (drawing on my conversation with Aquilae as to my LO DD Gyara weakness)

~T_S

. August 4th, 2008 3:54 AM

Just a note: For people who say it "depends on the team" We all know that, but you must also know some sweepers can be much more troublesome for a wider variety of teams that others. For example, Gyarados is threatening to teams made of fragile sweepers, but it can also hurt wall dependent teams due to it's ability to DD up in their face.

Some sweepers, however, like Electivire, gets walled to hell by a lot of teams with things like Gliscor, Bronzong, Metagross, etc...But it can be *sort* threatening to teams of fragile sweepers god help you if it god a speed boost.

Aquilae August 4th, 2008 4:33 AM

LO Gyarados. It beats out Garchomp due to almost every team having to carry a counter / Steel type, and whatmore there are no electric priority moves. Your basic set, Dragon Dance / Aqua Tail / Stone Edge / Ice Fang has very few counters. BulkyGyara can't tank and can't sweep, so its a no go.

Gyarados' counters:
  • Celebi - 2HKOed by LO Ice Fang after a DD, and Grass Knot fails to KO Gyarados before it wipes out Celebi. Reflect variants also are at risk if they are 77% health or below on the switchin (SR + 11% prior damage), or if Gyarados gets lucky and rolls more than minimum damage the two turns
  • Tangrowth - LO Gyarados does min 44% to Tangrowth meaning it would wipe Tangrowth out before it can KO it. Unless Tangrowth is running Morning Sun it doesn't have a chance.
  • Cresselia - LO Aqua Tail does 48% min to 252 HP/108 Def Bold so it is a 2-3HKO. Cress can't KO back with Charge Beam in return. Unless it has Moonlight / Reflect, it doesn't stand a chance.
  • Uxie - No reliable recovery besides RestTalk meaning that it is prone to being worn down, DD Aqua Tail does min 51% and max 61%.
  • Mesprit - Doesn't carry recovery at all in most cases meaning that it can be worn down, LO DD Aqua Tail does min 58%
  • Starmie - Gyarados outspeeds and does 86% min with Stone Edge/EQ, OHKOs with Bite on the standard spread. Max defense variants take 67% min from Bite and 55% min from Stone Edge / EQ
  • Slowbro - 2HKOed by LO DD Bite after SR damage, can't OHKO back, otherwise it can counter Gyarados
  • Milotic - 2HKOed by LO DD Stone Edge / EQ while failing to OHKO in return
  • Vaporeon - Counter
  • Suicune - Counter
  • Porygon2 - 100% counter
Not to mention with the speed boost Gyarados would be able to outspeed a lot of common pokemon and Gyarados can setup on a whole host of pokemon.

Garchomp is prepared for on every team, whereas Gyarados can't really be prepared for unless said team has a bulky counter. In the case of all-out offense teams they get brutally decimated by LO DD Gyarados and mostly the only thing stopping it is Deoxys-S.

P.S. No Guard Machamp gets my vote due to irritating confusionhax that always seems to plague me

Espy Psyche August 4th, 2008 4:59 AM

Personally I've both had more success with and more problems with Swords Dance Infernape than any other physical sweeper, including Garchomp and Gyarados. That's because I counter MixApe with Psychetres, the Moltres set I advertise as being a counter for standard Milotic and Vaporeon (and I'm not joking, I can bring it in on an SE STAB Surf and actually beat them). SDApe rips me up because of the SE Thunderpunch and 4x SE Stone Edge.

Dark Azelf August 4th, 2008 5:31 AM

Obligatory Garchomp comment, CB Chomp is just a monster. It really is, there is no other way to put it.

LO DD Gyarados. This thing just tears teams apart (FINALLY people are using it over that mess "Bulky Dos")

Both Tyranitar and Salamence are nasty aswell.

Also im going to Dragonite, again another VERY powerful pokemon thats often underrated.

And last and but by no meant least, the Fighting pokemon AKA Heracross, Machamp, Gallade and Lucario etc.



I also think most of the intimidation on these actually comes from them being unpredictable.

Espy Psyche August 4th, 2008 5:45 AM

I'm so with you on that offensive Gyara vs bulky Gyara thing, I never put LO on my offensive Gyara but I did stuff like EV'd it to hit 398 after a dance, which tears up all other DDers that aim for 396 to beat Aero. Though I liked when everyone used bulky Gyara, my offensive Gyara would tear up teams because everyone thought their Aeros and Jolteons and such outspeed me after a dance.

Vyro August 4th, 2008 6:16 AM

1 word: Salamence.
with max stats he has 405 attack

Divine~Deoxys August 4th, 2008 12:12 PM

And? Loads of pokes have good attacks.My most feared sweepres woudl be..hmmm....i'm scared of most but........Blissey.King-T's swept through mine a while back.

Postman August 4th, 2008 12:48 PM

You were swept by Choice band Blissey?!?!

The Graceful Assassin August 4th, 2008 1:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Postman (Post 3826062)
You were swept by Choice band Blissey?!?!

i didnt even think an offensive blissey could sweep a team.

My vote has got to be gyrados, as much as i like the deadly garchomp, Gyrados is a force to be reckoned with. Plus Intimidate can really come in handy.

Postman August 4th, 2008 1:37 PM

It cant... Unless your fighting a team of Weedles

Sora_8920 August 4th, 2008 1:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiddo999 (Post 3825961)
Blissey. King-T's swept through mine a while back.

1.) Blissey is not a Sweeper. Period.
2.) Crappy attack status (10 Atk and 75 SpA).
3.) It has 135 Base SpD making it a special wall (10 Def gets pwned).

. August 4th, 2008 6:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiddo999 (Post 3825961)
And? Loads of pokes have good attacks.My most feared sweepres woudl be..hmmm....i'm scared of most but........Blissey.King-T's swept through mine a while back.

That just proves your team was bad =/ Not that Blissey is a good (or even a) sweeper

Magmortified August 4th, 2008 8:52 PM

CMBlissey is rockin', but that's not really something that should be in a thread that specifically says, "physical sweeper." =P

Guillermo August 5th, 2008 2:03 AM

Garchomp hands down. They are the most annoying of all pokemon ( apart from maybe Blissey xD, darn that defense ) and they are usually in most teams on Shoddy. Sand Veil is the most annoying ability except maybe Sand Stream ( I love TTar though )

Also Blissey shouldn't even have any attack stats anyway so your Blissey must just have sucked xD

BeachBoy August 5th, 2008 2:26 AM

Hey, look it's S&M. 8D
 
Garchomp takes the cake for me, but I'd rather throw out other options for intimidating sweeper. (Let's just pretend it doesn't exist for a moment.) |D

Lucario - Swords Dance simply destroys unprepared teams. If's powerful, can finish a ballgame and really slaughters teams.

Gyarados - Seriously? Do I really have to say anything else? Game breaking ability, taunt, versatility from WacanDD to LO-DD to Restalk to Bulky, Gyarados is top five mosst intimidating sweeper, no doubt.

I would mention Salamence, but this is "physical sweeper" not mix or the other side of the spectrum. ): Choice Band does surprise people though, don't underestimate that. Salamence is perfectly viable for physical or special, so I'd rather mention it in an "overall" thread. XD

Divine~Deoxys August 5th, 2008 10:48 AM

OK,everyody's angry with me now,so i'll puit my most feared physical sweepres:

Gyarados:Isn't everyone afraid of it?
Tyranitar:I can deal with quite easily,but god,is it good at hurting stuff.
SDLuke:Never batteled one,sounds scary though

Valarauca August 5th, 2008 10:52 AM

charzard a.k.a bellyzar what are you gonna do

Anti August 5th, 2008 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowman080 (Post 3829008)
charzard a.k.a bellyzar what are you gonna do

Wall it.

BellyZard is honestly major fail unless you have a really poorly-designed team. Bulky waters still wall it and Stealth Rocks and priority moves destroy it.

YOOM-TAH August 5th, 2008 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokemaniacjason (Post 3815093)
destiny bond usually works very well with something very fast but frail like froslass or gengar. this is because they can get the first move and get the bond out, then the obvious super effective (or non) attack will some and kill it. wobbuffet lacks speed and is very bulky, so when your oppenent sees the destiny bond on the second turn, they will switch out :)

Except you can't switch out against Wobbuffet. Shadow Tag? Unless you Baton Pass, that is.

Valarauca August 5th, 2008 12:51 PM

I don't like how this discussion is progressing, it looks like intimidation is defined as how hard it is to counter something, which is more like power or move set, so under our this pretenses a mixed uber will win out...

Inimidation should be defined as how scarry something is when it hits the field, or how fast you think, "What the heck is my counter!"

Sora_8920 August 5th, 2008 1:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOOM-TAH (Post 3829216)
Except you can't switch out against Wobbuffet. Shadow Tag? Unless you Baton Pass, that is.

Or use Shed Shell...

Anyway, for me, it's Bite Gyara; my old team was weak to it. Not sure of the counters to it, though, so I can't fix that. I can't fix it anyway since it was somehow deleted. o.O

Anti August 5th, 2008 1:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowman080 (Post 3829374)
I don't like how this discussion is progressing, it looks like intimidation is defined as how hard it is to counter something, which is more like power or move set, so under our this pretenses a mixed uber will win out...

Inimidation should be defined as how scarry something is when it hits the field, or how fast you think, "What the heck is my counter!"

First of all, this is the most intimidating physical sweeper thread, not sweeper in general, so mixed are out of the picture. Being a mixed sweeper doesn't automatically mean you have less counters anyways. DD Gyarados has fewer counters than MixApe.

Honestly I don't get what you're saying though. It's basically "what physical sweeper do you fear the most." It's a pretty straightforward thing >_>

Adding Salamence to the conversation. Without SR everywhere Salamence would probably see even more usage. Its physical sets can be walled, but many of those pokemon won't want to switch in fearing a Specs or Life Orb Draco Meteor. This can but Salamence an ever-important extra turn of set-up. Salamence is easily one of the most diverse pokemon in the game (something that Garchomp and Gyarados cannot boast) and its defensive typing isn't exactly shabby.

YOOM-TAH August 5th, 2008 2:00 PM

Since I thought of this sooner, might as well bring it up. I'm a sort of noob to all this (I hate competitive battling when it actually comes to doing it, but I love reading/discussing it), so someone can probably refute this easily.

Counter to Garchomp when it first comes out. Since it's going to use a turn to use SD, switch to Wobbuffet. Then immediately switch out to Milotic. Shadow Tag carries over to trap Garchomp, then survive whatever hit comes, and Ice Beam him to death. Pretty sure no one packs a Garchomp with Baton Pass...that is if it can even learn it in the first place.

Does that work?

. August 5th, 2008 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOOM-TAH (Post 3829541)
Since I thought of this sooner, might as well bring it up. I'm a sort of noob to all this (I hate competitive battling when it actually comes to doing it, but I love reading/discussing it), so someone can probably refute this easily.

Counter to Garchomp when it first comes out. Since it's going to use a turn to use SD, switch to Wobbuffet. Then immediately switch out to Milotic. Shadow Tag carries over to trap Garchomp, then survive whatever hit comes, and Ice Beam him to death. Pretty sure no one packs a Garchomp with Baton Pass...that is if it can even learn it in the first place.

Does that work?

Um...SD Garchomp OHKO's or 2HKO's any Milotic.

Dark Azelf August 5th, 2008 2:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOOM-TAH (Post 3829541)
Since I thought of this sooner, might as well bring it up. I'm a sort of noob to all this (I hate competitive battling when it actually comes to doing it, but I love reading/discussing it), so someone can probably refute this easily.

Counter to Garchomp when it first comes out. Since it's going to use a turn to use SD, switch to Wobbuffet. Then immediately switch out to Milotic. Shadow Tag carries over to trap Garchomp, then survive whatever hit comes, and Ice Beam him to death. Pretty sure no one packs a Garchomp with Baton Pass...that is if it can even learn it in the first place.

Does that work?

No.

It will switch out the proceeding turn you switch wobby out, as Shadow Tag is no longer in effect...



Also what has this got to do with the current topic ? Nothing. Simple Q+A thread next time please.

airconditioning August 5th, 2008 4:10 PM

There's also the possibility of it being CBChomp, or SubSD-Yache Chomp, which kinda screws over that strategy. Of course, the thing that screws it over the most is the whole 'Wobbuffet being Uber' thing.

flamehaze94 August 5th, 2008 7:13 PM

There's no specified tier so I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say you implied OU tier. That being said, you simply can't argue against Garchomp whatsoever, sure Gyarados and Lucario are potent threats, but don't even come close to the sheer game changing power Garchomp has right now.

. August 5th, 2008 7:24 PM

Agreed, Garchomp not only has the second most powerful EQ in the OU metagame (tied with Mamo and below Rhyperior) he also has an incredible stat distribution, coupled with a movepool that any dragon would envy. Sand Veil is just a slap to the face to his "counters" due to the possibility of their moves missing becomes more likely in the Sandstorm. Yache Berry lowers his most common weakness, anything that is not steel will not like taking SD or CB Outrage, making a 2HKO very likely on things like Vaporeon, Starmie, Deoxys-e, etc...

YOOM-TAH August 6th, 2008 12:11 PM

It has plenty to do with the topic, because it's about a counter to Garchomp.

Also, according to Serebii, if Wobbuffet switches out, Shadow Tag is still in effect. That's the whole reason I brought it up.

Sora_8920 August 6th, 2008 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOOM-TAH (Post 3833383)
It has plenty to do with the topic, because it's about a counter to Garchomp.

Also, according to Serebii, if Wobbuffet switches out, Shadow Tag is still in effect. That's the whole reason I brought it up.

Nope; the effect is removed after if it switches.

Anyway, since I didn't get to mention it before, the second most intimidating is probably Garchomp obviously. Sand Veil coupled with two powerful STAB moves and little counters = kthxbai. SD + LO = gg OU metagame.

Anti August 6th, 2008 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by . t R U T H (Post 3833429)
SD + LO = gg OU metagame.

Um no. Cresselia can stand up to the ever-powerful SD LO Outrage and OHKO it with Ice Beam. There are walls that can stand up to its power in OUs for sure. The problematic Garchomp is the Yachechomp with Outrage. Every other set has counters.

Sora_8920 August 6th, 2008 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti Pop Culture Warrior (Post 3833447)
Um no. Cresselia can stand up to the ever-powerful SD LO Outrage and OHKO it with Ice Beam. There are walls that can stand up to its power in OUs for sure. The problematic Garchomp is the Yachechomp with Outrage. Every other set has counters.

Right. I retract my previous statement, then. ;) Regardless, Garchomp is still something to fear if you're not prepared for it, especially the one you mentioned in particular; Yache Berry Garchomp.

sims796 August 6th, 2008 12:39 PM

F U airconditioning. You stole my "Intimidate" line. I wanted to use that so badly. F U 2, Dark Azelf, you suggested Bulky Gya on my team. *sabatoge!* *sabatoge!*.

Still, BulkyGya isn't meant to be on offense, he's meant for defense.

I would have to give it up to Tyranitar as the most intimidating sweeper award, Garchomp comes in a close second. It shows up at the most inapropriate times, causes damage, starts up a damn sandstorm, ruins my merchandise that took me 5 HOURS to organize, then leaves. Garchomp is nearly the same. I have the resources to take it out, but it always comes at the worst possible moments.

airconditioning August 6th, 2008 2:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOOM-TAH (Post 3833383)
It has plenty to do with the topic, because it's about a counter to Garchomp.

Also, according to Serebii, if Wobbuffet switches out, Shadow Tag is still in effect. That's the whole reason I brought it up.

You know what else is a counter to Garchomp? Lugia. But we're not talking about Lugia. I wonder why?

Also, Shadow Tag is only in effect for the turn that Wobbuffet switches (I think).

Sora_8920 August 6th, 2008 3:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4th Gen Matt (Post 3833917)
Garchomp is so easy to beat. Release my Speed EV trained Dragonite on him and use Ice Beam and hes done for in one hit.


Dragonite in my opinion.

Yache Berry much? Plus, Dragonite won't live through a STAB Outrage. ._.

. August 6th, 2008 3:10 PM

What the hell? Dragonite has Base 80 speed, even at max it can't outspeed standard Chomp. Sorry POKEMON MASTAH, Garchomp molests your Dragonite with Outrage, Dragon Claw, etc...

Sora_8920 August 6th, 2008 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vance (Post 3833928)
What the hell? Dragonite has Base 80 speed, even at max it can't outspeed standard Chomp. Sorry POKEMON MASTAH, Garchomp molests your Dragonite with Outrage, Dragon Claw, etc...

One question; does Choice Scarf set outspeed? Only set that has Ice Beam. Not that you'll be using Ice Beam when you have Outrage for the Yache Berry set if it does outspeed. =P

. August 6th, 2008 3:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by . t R U T H (Post 3833944)
One question; does Choice Scarf set outspeed? Only set that has Ice Beam. Not that you'll be using Ice Beam when you have Outrage for the Yache Berry set if it does outspeed. =P

Umm...Isn't that obvious? Choice Scarf sets outspeed Base 125's, even Base 130's I believe.

Sora_8920 August 6th, 2008 3:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vance (Post 3833946)
Umm...Isn't that obvious? Choice Scarf sets outspeed Base 125's, even Base 130's I believe.

Not to me. =P There must be something wrong with me. =X It's either that, or the fact that I'm too lazy to figure it out. But whatev. :<

Torterra August 6th, 2008 4:09 PM

in Standard.. its either Tyranitar or Chomp

in UU.. its mostly Lee

devilicious August 6th, 2008 4:54 PM

I sleep afraid of Swellow and Hitmonlee every night. Stupid things that force you carry a Steel-type and and a Fighting-resist-that-isn't0weak-to-SE.

As for OU, eh... Really, it's hard to decide because everything there hits meanly hard. So I'd have to go with Lucario, Garchomp and Salamence.

Romo_Owens August 6th, 2008 10:04 PM

It's interesting to me how everybody is saying Garchomp. Heck I love Garchomp. It's the heart and soul of my team but really, there's bigger fish. Attack mode Deoxys, Rayquaza, and SD Groudon are probably the most threatening sweepers in the game. Everybody seems to be talking about Standard enviornment and there yes Garchomp is hands down the best. Gyarados I'd say is second because although it's a monster with a few dragon dances in it, it has to well... get them in first. Although they both suffer from popular 400% weaknesses, Grachomp is just fine to take out a counter without any boosts and then get the Swords Dance in itself. Gyarados will have a very tough time against counters without a speed boost from DD. Especially water types packing lightning bolt such as Starmie.

revelp8 August 6th, 2008 10:12 PM

thats because the whole discussion is about the standard metagame, not the uber. ^.^

the bugs do it for me. Heracross and Scizor are personal faves. floatzel for the lulz at DDancers when i want to taunt and bulk up. ^.^ it can potentially take a few hits after a few rounds of BU and release with waterfall. i love it.

Romo_Owens August 6th, 2008 10:17 PM

Also, and I apologize in advance if someone did mention him, but Heracross deserves to be discussed a bit. Lookin at this thread makes me believe that he is unbelievably underated. Give me another pokemon that can boast 2 different stab 120 power attacks, and a scary 125 base attack stat (matching that of what looks liek the runner up Gyarados). Choice Scarf Heracross is a scary sight and will tear teams apart that aren't ready to deal with it. Just being able to tear apart Blissey and Cresselia arguably better than any pokemon in the is enough reason to fear it. And let's not forget Guts.

Archer August 6th, 2008 10:22 PM

Guts and those STAB moves are what make Hera Scary. The Attack stat and coverage aren't that good.

Romo_Owens August 6th, 2008 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vance (Post 3833946)
Umm...Isn't that obvious? Choice Scarf sets outspeed Base 125's, even Base 130's I believe.

With A max speed Dragonite, the beats can reach a speed stat of 388 with a scarf/dd boost. That can easily outspeed a Jolteon/Crobat (base 130) who only reach 159. However, a timid Jolteon will reach 194.

ABYAY August 6th, 2008 10:27 PM

Hmm...I propose a change of pace here. Everyone is saying the similar things, and they're all OU.

How about some UU threats? We know there are many of these, and they can wreak some havoc.

For me, I'd have to say CB Hitmonlee. That thing just rips things up when used correctly, not to mention Mixed Nidoking, although I literally have yet to face one...which is strange.

Romo_Owens August 6th, 2008 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 3834761)
Guts and those STAB moves are what make Hera Scary. The Attack stat and coverage aren't that good.

Yes I agree the type coverage isn't that good, but by saying the attack stat isn't that good what exactly are you comparing it to? Gyarados has base 125 just like Hera. Garchomp has 130. Dragonite, Tyranitar and Salamence have 134 and 135. And if you mean that it's not that great once you compare it to a Gyarados Dragon Dance or a Garchomp Swords Dance, don't forget that Heracross also has Swords Dance.

revelp8 August 6th, 2008 10:33 PM

I love UU sweepers. from the first gen. Nidoking is a beast and able to take a hit well. covers his weaknesses well too. even able to go special sweeper if thats your alley and cleans well. but trying to breed for a moveset is a right pain in the *&^

i like haxxxing with absol and super luck. ^.^

might as well add in digging flygon he-he

. August 6th, 2008 10:37 PM

In UU, SD Toxicroak is a monster. I personally use Sub + SD + Sucker Punch + Cross Chop. The thing can rip things to shreds with little to no problem whatsoever.

Hitmontlee gets an honorable mention; 2HKOing Steelix with CB Close Combat.

Aquilae August 6th, 2008 10:44 PM

Garchomp is on equal ground with Attack Deoxys, Rayquaza and Groudon. In Attack Deoxys case, it cannot be comparable to Garchomp simply because it has paper-thin defenses whilst Garchomp is comparatively more bulkier, I would feel that Garchomp is better simply because it has more opportunities to switch in.

As for Groudon, Garchomp counters roughly the same stuff as it does and boasts higher speed but comparatively less attack, and a boosted Outrage. As in Rayquaza's case Garchomp outspeeds it initially, while Rayquaza does get Extremespeed on a whole Garchomp does not need a priority move due to its unique speed base. Garchomp functions well in Ubers simply because of its base 102 Speed which would allow it to outspeed a lot of threats in which Ubers are specifically designed to outspeed - this gives it a greater edge, and its speed base allows it to outspeed threats like Palkia and Rayquaza.

Heracross is really slow. It has a great counter in Gliscor as well as Megahorn and Close Combat being an easy switchin for the ubiquitous Gengar and Salamence.

EDIT : KT, Weezing =/

Aerodactyl is a monster in UU having a great speed and the attacking stats and coverage to pull off a sweep - if its counters are below 70% they basically get demolished.

. August 6th, 2008 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquilae (Post 3834795)
Garchomp is on equal ground with Attack Deoxys, Rayquaza and Groudon. In Attack Deoxys case, it cannot be comparable to Garchomp simply because it has paper-thin defenses whilst Garchomp is comparatively more bulkier, I would feel that Garchomp is better simply because it has more opportunities to switch in.

As for Groudon, Garchomp counters roughly the same stuff as it does and boasts higher speed but comparatively less attack, and a boosted Outrage. As in Rayquaza's case Garchomp outspeeds it initially, while Rayquaza does get Extremespeed on a whole Garchomp does not need a priority move due to its unique speed base. Garchomp functions well in Ubers simply because of its base 102 Speed which would allow it to outspeed a lot of threats in which Ubers are specifically designed to outspeed - this gives it a greater edge, and its speed base allows it to outspeed threats like Palkia and Rayquaza.

Heracross is really slow. It has a great counter in Gliscor as well as Megahorn and Close Combat being an easy switchin for the ubiquitous Gengar and Salamence.

EDIT : KT, Weezing =/

Aerodactyl is a monster in UU having a great speed and the attacking stats and coverage to pull off a sweep - if its counters are below 70% they basically get demolished.

The prescence of Gliscor doesn't make Lucario sucky, does it? Neither does the prescence of Weezing make Toxicroak suck.

Oh yeah...Aero...Poor UU =/

c_dog August 6th, 2008 11:01 PM

for UU i like primeape. the CB elemental punch primeape with max speed just tears everything up with such great coverage.

garchomp isn't that good though i have to say. he's good but not hands down good like it seems on this site. at least he was never intimidating to me, not as much as gyarados, who i'm also quite used to countering with relative ease. i think i've been caught offguard by gallade(CB, CS, t-wave) more often than by either garchomp or gyarados.

Xebelleon August 6th, 2008 11:15 PM

Was kinda rushed by a riend to battle him in a three on three.

His Swellow ended up killing me. It had a Flame Orb, used Protect & Roost in between Facade and Aerial Ace. I used

I used

Hippowdon @ Sassy w/ Stockpile, Slack Off, Stone Edge, Ice Fang (No item)
Cacturne @ Adamant w/ Leech Seed, Substitute, Faint Attack, HP Rock (No item...)
Girafarig @ Jolly w/ Magic Coat, Baton Pass, Charge Beam, Double Kick (Life Orb)

He also KO'd my Hippowdon with his Bronzong's Rain Dance and 3 Grass Knot's.

Romo_Owens August 6th, 2008 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquilae (Post 3834795)
Garchomp is on equal ground with Attack Deoxys, Rayquaza and Groudon. In Attack Deoxys case, it cannot be comparable to Garchomp simply because it has paper-thin defenses whilst Garchomp is comparatively more bulkier, I would feel that Garchomp is better simply because it has more opportunities to switch in.

As for Groudon, Garchomp counters roughly the same stuff as it does and boasts higher speed but comparatively less attack, and a boosted Outrage. As in Rayquaza's case Garchomp outspeeds it initially, while Rayquaza does get Extremespeed on a whole Garchomp does not need a priority move due to its unique speed base. Garchomp functions well in Ubers simply because of its base 102 Speed which would allow it to outspeed a lot of threats in which Ubers are specifically designed to outspeed - this gives it a greater edge, and its speed base allows it to outspeed threats like Palkia and Rayquaza.

Heracross is really slow. It has a great counter in Gliscor as well as Megahorn and Close Combat being an easy switchin for the ubiquitous Gengar and Salamence.

EDIT : KT, Weezing =/

Aerodactyl is a monster in UU having a great speed and the attacking stats and coverage to pull off a sweep - if its counters are below 70% they basically get demolished.

Last I checked Aerodactyl is OU. And also, it's far from a viable Sweeper. It's a revenge killer and one outclassed by Weavile.

On your Heracross Counters list though, Yes Gengar, Weezing and Salamence will switch in freely on Megahorn or Close Combat, but to very little effect. Salamence will hate to be hit by Stone Edge, Gengar won't like to be hit by Pursuit Stone Edge or Night Slash/Shadow Claw. And Weezing... Well you switch it in and then what? I don't know who would purposely send a Heracross a Will-O-Wisp, sludge bomb won't hit heracross too hard because it has decent sp. def, and Heracross can 2ko weezing with Stone Edge.

. August 6th, 2008 11:25 PM

Maybe you should check again, because Aerodactyl is UU. Don't make a statement without knowing your facts.

Aquilae August 6th, 2008 11:28 PM

Aerodactyl is UU.

Weezing packs Fire Blast. Salamence outspeeds. Gengar outspeeds. If you're going by that "this counter can be beaten by XXX move" mindset there would be no counters for many of the top OU threats, Lucario, Gengar, Infernape and such.


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