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-   -   Most intimidating physical sweeper? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=148335)

Ársa August 10th, 2008 12:46 AM

Taunt isn't nearly as devistating as you're trying to make out. If you've actually used Bulkydos with Taunt, you would realize it actually isn't used all that much. The point of LO DD Gyarados is the hit hard and fast, and overwhelm teams. It runs far more speed than the Taunt sets, meaning after a Dragon Dance it outspeeds many common threats, and with the increased attack is also able to dispose of them easier. Life Orb only adds to this. Taunt is only really useful for stopping phazers and status users from halting Gyarados, but with an attack stat topping at 545 after a Dragon Dance, and including the Life Orb increase, it seriously hurts stuff. It also defeats its original counters, for a Celebi without Reflect or Thunder Wave is immediately buried, and one with Reflect only defeats Gyarados with above 80% health.

~T_S

Lil MuDkiP849 August 10th, 2008 2:03 AM

I'd have to say my pick is LO Gyara for reasons already stated...tbh i havent had alot of trouble getting around Yache chomp...it's so standard...

In some ways i fear Infernape...because i've just seen the craziest sets ranging from Scarf with U-turn to the standard mixape...i've seen a guy use a specs all-out attack mixape 0.0...just my experiences with Infernape make me afraid of him seeing as how without my counter i actually would be mixape weak...

Ársa August 10th, 2008 2:33 AM

But that is the point...without a Garchomp counter, you are Garchomp weak. Without a Heracross counter, your are Heracross weak. Without an Infernape counter, you are Infernape weak.

OF COURSE YOU'LL BE WEAK IF YOU DON'T HAVE A COUNTER, THAT'S WHY WE CALL IT A COUNTER...>_>

But yes, thankyou for agreeing, and not posting the standard 'OMFG!!!one11!oneone garchomp is ezy 2 beet, ice ataks beet it ezy!!!11!!1oneoneoneoneoneoneoneoneoneoneoneon'

~T_S

. August 10th, 2008 5:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiddo999 (Post 3842777)
Heracross?I've met about 10,i didnt even consider them,and i took thme out easily!

Wild Heracross don't count >.>

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_dog (Post 3843596)
please, LO gyarados as i've stated before is only benefitting from its older brother bulky taunt-a-dros. LO gyarados doesn't have taunt which makes it a lot easier for players to stop it/force a switch. with the use of stealth rock it's probably a one hit KO on it the next time it comes in. i still think gyarados is one of the best sweepers in the game, but all these people saying as if it's some beast that people need to be afraid are wrong.

and agreed that heracross shouldn't be top 5. maybe a push for top 10 but not top 5. its attacks are easily stopped as so many pokemon are resistant to its moves(the common gliscor in fact is resistant all its moves except none stabbed stone edge, which don't even do that much). people carrying cresselia as their physical wall though, definitely need to be afraid of this guy. stabbed megahorn is definitely no fun.

Taunt is overrated. BulkyGyara can't pull off a sweep, nevermind the fact that LO Gyara can 2HKO most of it's counters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABYAY (Post 3843742)
The only thing that could even think about walling that with ease is Dusknoir or a Rock/Ghost type, which doesn't exist.., and Dusknoir usage is becoming crap. Honestly...Flame Orb Heracross is potentially one of the most threatening Pokemon to anything in the game, only beaten by things quicker, meaning it terrorizes everything slow.

...We should've made a poll on this.

I didn't think it was going to get this much of an intelligent discussion. I expected "GARCHOMP BECAUSE IT'S REALLY STRONG"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macaveli (Post 3844518)
For me, it's Empoleon,whenever I'm in the Wi-fi Battle Tower and I run into one, I think AW NO!!!
No matter what i do they always beat me.

How the heck can you be Empoleon weak?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortured_Soul (Post 3844821)
I've always thought of it this way.

OU and UU are seperated by usage on a scale. OU and BL are seperated by how well the BL pokemon perform in OU. A prime example is Blaziken, who is BL because there is something in OU that does the job better in almost every facet. (and for the people who've been under a rock, it's Infernape)

~T_S

I believe OU and BL are seperated by usage. I mean, BL Pokes are pretty much equal with OU Pokes. Only thing is, they aren't used as much because, like you said, there is either something better or there is something flawed with them (Slaking having Truant for example) However, BL's function very nicely in OU (Houndoom beats Blissey)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortured_Soul (Post 3845355)
Taunt isn't nearly as devistating as you're trying to make out. If you've actually used Bulkydos with Taunt, you would realize it actually isn't used all that much. The point of LO DD Gyarados is the hit hard and fast, and overwhelm teams. It runs far more speed than the Taunt sets, meaning after a Dragon Dance it outspeeds many common threats, and with the increased attack is also able to dispose of them easier. Life Orb only adds to this. Taunt is only really useful for stopping phazers and status users from halting Gyarados, but with an attack stat topping at 545 after a Dragon Dance, and including the Life Orb increase, it seriously hurts stuff. It also defeats its original counters, for a Celebi without Reflect or Thunder Wave is immediately buried, and one with Reflect only defeats Gyarados with above 80% health.

~T_S

Agreed

SmashBrony August 10th, 2008 6:15 PM

most intimidating?
Gyarados.
(yes, this is a bad pun on it's ability.)

oh yes, & salamence.
(it too have the ability intimidate!)

sims796 August 10th, 2008 8:19 PM

Remember, don't downplay Bulkydos. It's meant to play the more defensive role. I use it in conjuntion with my Bulky grass, and use SD Luke (my current favorite sweeper) to decimate teams.

I also say SD luke as a intimidating sweeper.

OF THE LATE GAEMZ

c_dog August 10th, 2008 9:07 PM

well, my teams just happen to have more trouble with taunt-a-dros than LO gyarados.

a t-waved gyarados is good as gone, and sleep also stops it effectively. i'd say taunt is pretty useful, even if not to prevent set ups, to prevent status.

sims796 August 11th, 2008 4:40 AM

And promoting free switch-ins.

Bill Cosby has gone missing, presumed dead.

Anti August 11th, 2008 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_dog (Post 3847880)
well, my teams just happen to have more trouble with taunt-a-dros than LO gyarados.

a t-waved gyarados is good as gone, and sleep also stops it effectively. i'd say taunt is pretty useful, even if not to prevent set ups, to prevent status.

Most status inducers are killed by Gyarados before they can touch him though. Gengar, for example, won't be putting anything to sleep. Bulky Gyarados with Taunt is a tankish thing while DD LO Gyarados is a far better sweeper, but the other one is much safer from the opposition.

Still, in today's powerful and fast metagame (and SR-infested), bulky gyarados has lost some effectiveness. Bulky Gyarados used to be a lot better than it is now. Kind of like how stall was popular after obi's stall team and then the crazy train went off the rails, so to speak.

Considering this is a thread about "the most intimidating physical sweeper," regardless of how effective Tauntrados might seem to you DD LO Gyarados is clearly a better sweeper, with better coverage and much more raw power.

c_dog August 11th, 2008 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti Pop Culture Warrior (Post 3849683)
Most status inducers are killed by Gyarados before they can touch him though. Gengar, for example, won't be putting anything to sleep. Bulky Gyarados with Taunt is a tankish thing while DD LO Gyarados is a far better sweeper, but the other one is much safer from the opposition.

Still, in today's powerful and fast metagame (and SR-infested), bulky gyarados has lost some effectiveness. Bulky Gyarados used to be a lot better than it is now. Kind of like how stall was popular after obi's stall team and then the crazy train went off the rails, so to speak.

Considering this is a thread about "the most intimidating physical sweeper," regardless of how effective Tauntrados might seem to you DD LO Gyarados is clearly a better sweeper, with better coverage and much more raw power.

it only takes one turn to status gyarados buddy. not being able to touch him would mean your pokemon are OHKO'ed without it even having to dragon dance... i still go for the beefy stall teams rather than the sweeper teams that are roaming around these days so about 4 of my pokemon can take several hits from dos w/o dragon dance, two of which can inflict status one of which can pseuohaze. taunt ruins their effectiveness but DD dos won't be doing any sweeping any time soon.

but you're right. LO gyarados would be the better sweeper if we're talking about raw power because it has the stats. raw power is just that though, and i would find a taunt-a-dros more intimidating. whenever i run into an unsuspecting taunt-a-dros who used taunt on me, i just bang my head because i might have just given him a few extra turns to set up DD for the sweep.

. August 11th, 2008 1:18 PM

Quote:

it only takes one turn to status gyarados buddy. not being able to touch him would mean your pokemon are OHKO'ed without it even having to dragon dance... i still go for the beefy stall teams rather than the sweeper teams that are roaming around these days so about 4 of my pokemon can take several hits from dos w/o dragon dance, two of which can inflict status one of which can pseuohaze. taunt ruins their effectiveness but DD dos won't be doing any sweeping any time soon.

It only takes one turn for Gyarados to OHKO you with a STAB Waterfall =/ Gyarados can also have team support such as Aromatherapy.

Quote:

but you're right. LO gyarados would be the better sweeper if we're talking about raw power
Which we are, thus you're off topic.

sims796 August 11th, 2008 6:07 PM

Hey, ease off C-Dog, he did admit his mistake. Everyone else posted along with him.

Anywho, are we only allowed Physical sweepers? Because to me, I say Heatran, Azelf, & Raichu as special of my choice. I don't want a long rant about why Raichu is a bad sweeper, ya nutsack, I like it. Swept a team with a few times :/.

EDIT:Oh, that nutsack shtick wasn't on you, Vance, just anyone bugging me with a 5 paragragh essay on why Raichu sux.

. August 11th, 2008 6:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3850750)
Hey, ease off C-Dog, he did admit his mistake. Everyone else posted along with him.

Anywho, are we only allowed Physical sweepers? Because to me, I say Heatran, Azelf, & Raichu as special of my choice. I don't want a long rant about why Raichu is a bad sweeper, ya nutsack, I like it. Swept a team with a few times :/.

EDIT:Oh, that nutsack shtick wasn't on you, Vance, just anyone bugging me with a 5 paragragh essay on why Raichu sux.

"Most intimidating Special Sweeper" LOLZ

Raichu is actually pretty damn scary with Reversal D= Reversal/Sub/Agility/Tbold

airconditioning August 11th, 2008 7:00 PM

Special sweepers, by nature, are just less intimidating. Not only do most lack that ability, but Special sweepers are just OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL'd by Blissey. :/

Anti August 11th, 2008 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c_dog (Post 3849859)
it only takes one turn to status gyarados buddy. not being able to touch him would mean your pokemon are OHKO'ed without it even having to dragon dance... i still go for the beefy stall teams rather than the sweeper teams that are roaming around these days so about 4 of my pokemon can take several hits from dos w/o dragon dance, two of which can inflict status one of which can pseuohaze. taunt ruins their effectiveness but DD dos won't be doing any sweeping any time soon.

but you're right. LO gyarados would be the better sweeper if we're talking about raw power because it has the stats. raw power is just that though, and i would find a taunt-a-dros more intimidating. whenever i run into an unsuspecting taunt-a-dros who used taunt on me, i just bang my head because i might have just given him a few extra turns to set up DD for the sweep.

I don't mean to sound too derogatory here, but have you even played in the current metagame? If Gyarados wants to Taunt status inducers (who are pretty rare as it is), it can do so, but Tauntrados can't sweep. Gyarados needs all three moveslots to effectively beat what it has to. Everything hits fast and hard now. Walls are becoming more and more rare. The only thing Taunt will beat that DD LO Gyarados can't is Bronzong. Other sleep inducers like Gengar and Yanmega are just CRUSHED. Milotic beats Gyarados either way (though it's very rare to see nowadays anyways). As for PHazers, they too are kind of...uncommon. Skarmory maybe, but I haven't seen one in awhile to be honest, probably because Gliscor seems to wall physical attackers better.

With the extra slot and extra power, Gyarados can afford to get statused or PHazed by a few uncommon things. If it runs the bulky tauntrados deal, then it's going to lose to a lot of what you see in today's metagame - sweepers. Not many pokemon can sweep with only two moveslots for attacks, and Gyarados isn't really one of them.

Haza August 11th, 2008 8:00 PM

Im also pretty scared of metagross, the only fire types I have Evd are a shiny Charizard, shiny Arcanine, a Shiny Ninetales that I dont want anymore and a Camerupt.

Romo_Owens August 11th, 2008 10:00 PM

Meh I've already stated that min my opinion it is SD Garchomp but I'm going to go ahead and give out an honorable mention to Metagross. A total base stat of 600 is nothing to smirk at, also backed by a 135 base atack stat. All of it's stats except its speed are above average and it comes with Agility. It also has bulky defense stats and good typing giving it a chance to set up an agility. Something a lot of sweepers can't say. It only has 2 weaknesses, and fire isn't that widespread, and Garchomp and cursepert are among the only pokemon that can brag the ability to OHKO it with an Earthquake. Sure it's STAB type coverage isn't all that great but only a handful of pokemon can stand up to both Meteor Mash and Earthquake (and they get hit for at least neutral damage from thunderpunch).

c_dog August 12th, 2008 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vance (Post 3849940)
It only takes one turn for Gyarados to OHKO you with a STAB Waterfall =/ Gyarados can also have team support such as Aromatherapy.

what makes you think gyarados can OHKO with stab waterfall? i haven't had my pokemon OHKO by gyara in a long long time. i always carry several tanks/walls with me.

and yes, aromatherapy is exactly what i want from you because it gives me time to set up. the turns that you're using aromatherapy and maybe try to throw in a twave to be cute, i would be setting up for the kill. and gyara does not like switching into stealth rocks especially if it's losing 10% of its health on every hit already. that's why status works really well on gyarados w/o taunt.

@anti: yes i have played some of the current metagame on smogon, and i noticed it's gotten a lot weaker. i haven't played in over a year and i was still destroying opponents with my Brock team. Brock only has like.. 7 useable pokemon so I didn't have a whole lot to choose from. Still went 5-1 on the first day I came back though only losing the first game.

Anti August 12th, 2008 11:25 AM

Status works well on Gyarados without Taunt, but even if you try to set up on Aromatherapy the metagame is swarming with revenge killers.

Basically, Gyarados can't even sweep the sweepers in today's metagame (which is kind of sad) with two moveslots for attacking and a bulky EV spread. It needs Life Orb and 3 attacks to beat what it has to.

I ask you, what is more common? Sweepers or status inducers? Gyarados needs to worry about the former a lot more.

Also the extra power and coverage helps against walls that aren't trying to status you, such as Celebi.

sims796 August 12th, 2008 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airconditioning (Post 3850910)
Special sweepers, by nature, are just less intimidating. Not only do most lack that ability, but Special sweepers are just OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL'd by Blissey. :/

Tell that to Azelf, or the vast majority of players hell bent on removing Blissey first. CM sweepers just decimate, and Fake Tera gets an honorary mention for Blissey killing.

. August 12th, 2008 12:04 PM

Quote:

what makes you think gyarados can OHKO with stab waterfall? i haven't had my pokemon OHKO by gyara in a long long time. i always carry several tanks/walls with me.
Because you've been fighting that weak as hell, pathetic BulkyGyara. LO Gyara can probably sweep your entire team.

sims796 August 12th, 2008 12:07 PM

And how do you come to that bold asumption? Personally, I thought this was all in perspective to the poster. I suppose we must all unanimouly agree on one sweeper as best? Buliky is no sweeper, but he certainly isn't weak. He is the more defensive Gya, and hits hard enough for an defensive poke.

. August 12th, 2008 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3852881)
And how do you come to that bold asumption? Personally, I thought this was all in perspective to the poster. I suppose we must all unanimouly agree on one sweeper as best? Buliky is no sweeper, but he certainly isn't weak. He is the more defensive Gya, and hits hard enough for an defensive poke.

We are talking about physical sweepers. As a sweeper, BulkyGyarados fails. That is what I am referring too. LO Gyarados is a great sweeper, whereas BulkyGyara is too worried about status and stuff, and it cannot outrun many enemies, thus why LO Gyara >>> BulkyGyara for sweeping purposes.

sims796 August 12th, 2008 12:27 PM

We were talking about what we felt as the more intimidating sweeper. Not what Anti-I mean, what is the universal best sweeper ever. Do you feel LO Gya as the best sweeper over Chomp, as quoted earier? Then you have a discussion.

. August 12th, 2008 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3852922)
We were talking about what we felt as the more intimidating sweeper. Not what Anti-I mean, what is the universal best sweeper ever. Do you feel LO Gya as the best sweeper over Chomp, as quoted earier? Then you have a discussion.

I was saying that LO Gyara >> BulkyGyara as a sweeper, why are you bringing Chomp into this very simple discussion?


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