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-   -   Garchomp Tier Discussion / Debate (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=149853)

Red Rain August 16th, 2008 9:39 AM

I can say from personal experience that I am fed up with Garchomp. It cannot be taken down easily and it's a total pain. The OU metagame will be much more competitive without it, due to it being a closer contest. I strongly put forward that it should become Uber. The fact that people construct teasm around defeating it shows its power and how people are very wary of it's power. Uber please.

The Hero Without a Name August 16th, 2008 11:42 AM

I used to be "Garchomp for OU," but after a recent beating by one on Shoddy...

"Infernape used Hidden Power [Ice]!"
"Infernape's attack missed!"
----
"Mamoswine used Ice Shard!"
"Mamoswine's attack missed!"
----
"Starmie used Ice Beam!"
"Starmie's attack missed!"

And getting thumped on my ass, I agree with the general consensus that Chomp needs to go.

Spazzy August 16th, 2008 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gofre (Post 3860963)
That's pretty much the gist of it. A poke is not tier'd by how bad he is in one, but how good it is in the other. Garchomp may get bullied in ubers, but that doesnt really matter because he's been bullying OU for the past year. Its like regular deoxys- Absolutely terrible in ubers, literally never used. But if you made him OU he would destroy pretty much everything.

I can't remember when I typed that, but I think it was pretty late, so I don't know what my thoughts are. Knowing myself, I probably put that "he's too good for OU" saying that he should be Uber, but whether or not I was of that thought process, you're right.

Oh an Ooka, Gofre said the same exact thing as you, except he managed to do it without insulting someone for no reason. Amazing how that works isn't it?

Divine~Deoxys August 16th, 2008 1:47 PM

The problem with Garchomp is,that it is EXACTLY liek Deoxys.It does wup ass in OU,because even i can wup ass with it,but it wil get bullied iwth ubers.I never was Garchomp for OU.I only use it because it's strong.If it was put into ubers poepel would have to figure out new tactics with it,whihc means it woudl liven up uber instead of biring out OU.So,it ouwld also do two good ithngs.Overall,i inthk it shodu definitely be in ubers

shedinjask August 16th, 2008 1:48 PM

He didn't insult you, he told you not to post about things you don't understand so you wouldn't look stupid. Great advice, really.

So we're all for ubering Garchomp? Why was it unbanned last time?

Magmortified August 16th, 2008 2:06 PM

Wait a second, why would people have to figure out new tactics for Garchomp in Ubers and thus liven it up?

Can't you use Garchomp in Ubers right now? ._.

Divine~Deoxys August 16th, 2008 2:07 PM

Because osmoene said it had counters.Yeah,and because i took out a Wobby with my Mamoswine,does that mean Wobby's UU?

Dark Azelf August 16th, 2008 2:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiddo999 (Post 3862556)
The problem with Garchomp is,that it is EXACTLY liek Deoxys.

Nope, its nothing like deoxys tbh..

Quote:

It does wup ass in OU,because even i can wup ass with it,but it wil get bullied iwth ubers.
Just because Garchomp may get "bullied" in ubers, it doesnt mean it cant be placed there.

If a pokemon is deemed too broken for the OU tier or any tier, it will be moved up a tier or tiers. No matter how much the pokemon sucks in said higher tier.

See regular deoxys, it completely blows compared with its other forms in ubers, however its still too broken for OU, so in ubers it stays.

Quote:

I never was Garchomp for OU.I only use it because it's strong.If it was put into ubers poepel would have to figure out new tactics with it,whihc means it woudl liven up uber instead of biring out OU.So,it ouwld also do two good ithngs.Overall,i inthk it shodu definitely be in ubers
I honestly didnt understand any part of this post...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiddo999 (Post 3862605)
Because osmoene said it had counters.Yeah,and because i took out a Wobby with my Mamoswine,does that mean Wobby's UU?


Wait wut ?

Whoopty do, "I R BEETING KYOGRE WITH DUNSPARCEZ".


Just because you beat an uber with a lower tier pokemon it still doesnt determine which tier its in.


Hell, ive used Poliwrath in OU, and its beaten things from Gyarados, through weavile and tyranitar even Salamence.

Ive even beat a Blissey with a NP Houndoom =/.


Still IS NOT going to affect the tier of those threats i beat with lower tier pokes.

shedinjask August 16th, 2008 3:08 PM

You're misunderstanding here. He didn't say because it can be countered by lower tiers that it's a lower tier. He said the exact opposite.

Who said it had counters and how did they manage to convince anyone after that thread we had?

Archer August 16th, 2008 8:30 PM

Ok, I'm going to break this down too, but there are some points this can emphasise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiddo999 (Post 3862556)
The problem with Garchomp is,that it is EXACTLY liek Deoxys.

No. No. Garchomp is bulkier and doesn't need Life Orb and coverage to sweep. Deoxys is also shut down by Thunder Wave. Keep in mind that Deoxys even has counters - Bronzong, Metgross, Jirachi, Forretress (it works ☺). Nor does deoxys have that kind of typing - It has 3 weaknesses and no immunities to switch in on. Think about it more.

Quote:

It does wup ass in OU,because even i can wup ass with it,but it wil get bullied iwth ubers.
Ok, what you can do with it is not worth considering in the slightest. Jumpluff is awesome if played by someone with good prediction, but it's still UU.
As for it "Getting Bullied" in Ubers, lol. It has 102 Spd. Enough to outspeed most Uber threats. There are other reasons, but whether or not it can cope in Ubers is not a concern. (ERG - Equal Rights for Garchomps....) Uber is an OU ban, as BL is a UU ban. Many BLs suck in OU, but they are too good for UU, thus, they are banned.

Quote:

I never was Garchomp for OU.I only use it because it's strong.If it was put into ubers poepel would have to figure out new tactics with it,whihc means it woudl liven up uber instead of biring out OU.So,it ouwld also do two good ithngs.Overall,i inthk it shodu definitely be in ubers
Ok, I think that acually has some merit. It would give more pokemon play in OU, but that is not the main concern. Blissey was SO overused, yet there was no attempt to ever ban it. (Except for the "NO SKARMBLISS" user comments in the old Netbattle.)

My Vote - Uber.

Divine~Deoxys August 17th, 2008 2:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 3862686)








Wait wut ?

Whoopty do, "I R BEETING KYOGRE WITH DUNSPARCEZ".


Just because you beat an uber with a lower tier pokemon it still doesnt determine which tier its in.


Hell, ive used Poliwrath in OU, and its beaten things from Gyarados, through weavile and tyranitar even Salamence.

Ive even beat a Blissey with a NP Houndoom =/.


Still IS NOT going to affect the tier of those threats i beat with lower tier pokes.

I was being sarcastic D_A.Wobby is the msot definite uber ever to me,as its not oing to stay in agaisnt osmeihng that can 1HKO it,therefore yo uahve to keep the counter alive and keep pursuiting it.Shedinjask understood waht i said at least.
Archer,waht i was saying was that jsut lke Deoxys,it is oing to get bullied in ubers.JHowever,i believe in NRG (No Rights for Garchomps).What i can do proves that it is too easy to use and kill stuff,as although i understand everytihng,i'm still fair rubbish at battling.

Archer August 17th, 2008 3:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiddo999 (Post 3864374)
I was being sarcastic D_A.Wobby is the msot definite uber ever to me,as its not oing to stay in agaisnt osmeihng that can 1HKO it,therefore yo uahve to keep the counter alive and keep pursuiting it.Shedinjask understood waht i said at least.
Archer,waht i was saying was that jsut lke Deoxys,it is oing to get bullied in ubers.JHowever,i believe in NRG (No Rights for Garchomps).What i can do proves that it is too easy to use and kill stuff,as although i understand everytihng,i'm still fair rubbish at battling.

Look, as modest as you were, you need to understand that Uber is an OU ban. NOT where the pokemon is most competent.

Divine~Deoxys August 17th, 2008 3:27 AM

I understand that part.And at least someoen doesn't jsut have a go at me for posting stuff.

Walrein August 23rd, 2008 7:44 AM

I think Iv'e already said that, but Skill Link Icicle Spear Cloyster can ruin Yache Berry.
Lopunny can also Swicherro it's Yache for Choice Specs on physical sets, and if possible, on SD (Loppuny is faster BTW) and use Ice Punch.

Divine~Deoxys August 23rd, 2008 8:04 AM

I'll take your word for it.The thing is,you want to have a poke that can do stuff other thna be a Garchomp Counter,adn,to be honest,you don't see many Lopunnys and i'm not about to add one jsut to counter chomp.Can i jsut make a point though?Latios with maxx speed and Ice Beam coudl give Garchomp a run around.If it were OU,they'd be quite well mstched,Latias more so,but,like Garchomp,Latias is more uber,whereas Latios has counters vewry common.

sims796 August 23rd, 2008 8:05 AM

Ok, that's it. First off, Aquilae already explanied why Cloyster won't work. Second, random UU pokemon won't cut it. Even if they happen to beat chomp (any faster UU can, like Lopunny, um...), stop using UU pokes that won't make it anywhere else in the metagame.

GeneralGuy August 23rd, 2008 8:10 AM

Garchomp isn't as huge of a threat that people claim him to be. There are several counters who can easily OHKO sets without a Yache Berry.

Azonic August 23rd, 2008 8:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralGuy (Post 3871520)
Garchomp isn't as huge of a threat that people claim him to be. There are several counters who can easily OHKO sets without a Yache Berry.

Uh, no. Counters are Pokemon that can switch into another without any harm done. No Pokemon can switch into Garchomp's SD'd Outrage, except for steel Pokemon, who die to Fire Fang and Earthquake. SDChomp 2HKOs most things in the game.

Oh, and if you think you have a counter for Garchomp, then name them instead of just saying that it has counters.

I guess Weavile can counter YacheChomp on the Swords Dance, since Ice Punch OHKOs even through Yache Berry without a Swords Dance. At least that's what happened to me. >:<

Garchomp's counters: Focus Band Weavile with Focus Band working 2 times in a row without Sandstorm. That and ubers.

GeneralGuy August 23rd, 2008 8:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raikazu (Post 3871545)
Uh, no. Counters are Pokemon that can switch into another without any harm done. No Pokemon can switch into Garchomp's SD'd Outrage, except for steel Pokemon, who die to Fire Fang and Earthquake. SDChomp 2HKOs most things in the game.

Oh, and if you think you have a counter for Garchomp, then name them instead of just saying that it has counters.

I guess Weavile can counter YacheChomp on the Swords Dance, since Ice Punch OHKOs even through Yache Berry without a Swords Dance. At least that's what happened to me. >:<

Garchomp's counters: Focus Band Weavile with Focus Band working 2 times in a row without Sandstorm. That and ubers.

My Bold Slowbro can counter Garchomp, Gyarados and Infernape.

Dark Azelf August 23rd, 2008 8:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralGuy (Post 3871552)
My Bold Slowbro can counter Garchomp, Gyarados and Infernape.

How ?


Bold Slowbro is OHKO'd by Infernape's Grass Knot (Assuming your talking about the omnipresent Mixape or just infernape in general)


Bite LO Gyarados 2HKO's Slowbro


CB Chomp also 2hko's Slowbro with Outrage iirc.

Walrein August 23rd, 2008 8:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3871504)
Ok, that's it. First off, Aquilae already explanied why Cloyster won't work. Second, random UU pokemon won't cut it. Even if they happen to beat chomp (any faster UU can, like Lopunny, um...), stop using UU pokes that won't make it anywhere else in the metagame.

I said Iclce Spear, not Ice Shard! Skill link ensures it will hit 5 times, while the first will eliminate Yache, and four more hits for easy damage. Then Ice Shard can be used as well. And I really have a hard time beliving a pokemon with 180 base defense will fall so easily to a physical move it is not weak to.

Ársa August 23rd, 2008 8:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralGuy (Post 3871552)
My Bold Slowbro can counter Garchomp, Gyarados and Infernape.

Your Bold Slowbro can bite me. +2 Adamant Outrage does 74.11% - 87.06%. (Easy 2HKO) Slowbro can't OHKO through Yache Berry, and even without Yache Berry, it only has approx 60% chance.

El Gofre August 23rd, 2008 8:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Froslass (Post 3871583)
I said Iclce Spear, not Ice Shard! Skill link ensures it will hit 5 times, while the first will eliminate Yache, and four more hits for easy damage. Then Ice Shard can be used as well. And I really have a hard time beliving a pokemon with 180 base defense will fall so easily to a physical move it is not weak to.

That's not the point- This is a discussion about garchomp and the OU metagame, and the UUs that are consistently mentioned do not appear frequently enough to be deemed fully-fledged counters.

And another thing, here's some calcs. It's [email protected]/252HP against a standard Garchomp with one SD:

Outrage: 62-72%
Earthquake: 51-60%
Fire Fang: 24-27%
DC used: Metalkid

To quote D_A, A "counter" is a pokemon that takes little risk when switching into an enemy pokemon and provides an immediate threat. Cloyster can only switch in on one of garchomp's attacks, which is only there for skarmory and Bronzong anyway- The former of which does the exact-same job. Hence you'd need to be running two physical walls in a single team just to be able to viably have a chance of switching cloyster in, and once it's in it just get's 2HKO'd as you break it's yache berry and hope for a run of 5 spears.

sims796 August 23rd, 2008 8:55 AM

Meaning, as he switches in, Cloyster loses half his HP. The next hit when Chomp goes first will KO.

Walrein August 23rd, 2008 8:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Gofre (Post 3871616)
That's not the point- This is a discussion about garchomp and the OU metagame, and the UUs that are consistently mentioned do not appear frequently enough to be deemed fully-fledged counters.

And another thing, here's some calcs. It's [email protected]/252HP against a standard Garchomp with one SD:

Outrage: 62-72%
Earthquake: 51-60%
Fire Fang: 24-27%
DC used: Metalkid

To quote D_A, A "counter" is a pokemon that takes little risk when switching into an enemy pokemon and provides an immediate threat. Cloyster can only switch in on one of garchomp's attacks, which is only there for skarmory and Bronzong anyway- The former of which does the exact-same job. Hence you'd need to be running two physical walls in a single team just to be able to viably have a chance of switching cloyster in, and once it's in it just get's 2HKO'd as you break it's yache berry and hope for a run of 5 spears.

What was mentioned before is that Cloyster will be OHKO, but 2HKO is bad as well.
Isn't there any pokemon that can prevent it from SDing?


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