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Cherrim September 22nd, 2008 9:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere
1. It's absolutely not ok, and I'm for reforming the healthcare system so that people aren't left behind. I'm not totally blind to the healthcare problems we have in this country, and I think they can be addressed without the use of socialized medicine. Sorry, I just don't agree with this. You might call those who don't want to pay more taxes to support universal healthcare greedy and selfish, but 1.Is it fair to some one who worked hard, went to college, got a degree and made money have it taken away from them and given to someone who say...didn't go to college, didn't work hard, and now needs the government to support them? (Yeah, yeah, this doesn't apply to everyone. Some people aren't at fault for being in poverty, but then again, some are.) And: 2. Where's that liberal fairness we all love? Like they say "Equality and Fairness, unless you're rich in which case we're taking your money." It works in other countries because other countries accept these socialistic policies, but I do not, and others will agree with me. (Note: Republicans. and that's a fair amount of people)

...so a few extra taxes to ensure that EVERYONE gets health care when they need it are that bad? I can't even imagine living without free health care. I know someone who was hospitalized recently and their hospital bill for one night was over $1000. Sure, if your family has good insurance, it probably won't matter, but I know some people in the US who simply will not go to the doctor because they can't afford it. This isn't even a matter of not affording the treatment suggested--like pills or something--they can't afford the visit. That just boggles my mind because I've always grown up with free health care. I'm not feeling well? No worries. I can just head to a health clinic and see someone about it, even if it's nothing. The idea that anyone would hesitate about going to the doctor not because they don't have time but because they can't afford even a check-up is just... just... @[email protected]; Universal health care is not a bad thing. I don't know ANYONE under a universal health care system who doesn't appreciate it. Sure, I may not appreciate some of the waits we have, but I would seriously consider moving if I didn't have access to free health care. The taxes are a small price to pay, imo. (To be honest, I've probably racked up thousands of dollars in health care fees over the last few years. To not have to worry about huge bills and everything? It's a big relief.) Before you go dismissing socialized medicine, actually look into it. Maybe you've never had any health problems in your family, but I sure as hell hope you don't since it'll probably cost you way more than anticipated if you do. D:
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2. She's a mother. Her judgement here was obviously affected by strong emotions. You're telling me that if you were pro-life and your daughter got pregnant, you wouldn't care about how this would affect your daughters life? On the one hand, you could stick to your guns and say "No abortion", or you could actually give a darn about the welfare of your daughter. Having a child at that age is never good, and what kind of mother would she be if she didn't take that into account? I'm Pro-choice, and if my daughter was pregnant, I'd be conflicted as well. I can over-look this and give her some slack, but obviously will follow this to no end to see her suffer because of this.
Precisely because she's a mother, it worries me that she hasn't changed her viewpoint at all. If she respects her daughter's decision, then she must have known it was a hard decision. If she's so unempathetic that she can't think outside the box about all the women who don't want to keep the child, that bothers me. Fine, if you aren't pro-choice when someone just went and got themselves knocked up, fair enough. But also in the case of rape and incest!? That's ridiculous. You say she'd be a terrible mother if she didn't care about her child's welfare--but what about the welfare of every woman in the US? So if someone else's daughter is raped, it's okay to FORCE her to carry and birth the child? :| Ahaha, yeah, I don't agree in the slightest with her ideals there.
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3. Oh blah, blah, blah...separation of church and state. How can you truly separate church and state when so many of our laws are linked so closely to religion? How about things like Gay marriage and Abortion? You would truly ask people to put their core beliefs aside and make a decision on this issue without first remembering how they grew up and how they live their life? You might as well ask everyone to not have morals and be atheists. Would that be the fairness that liberals are so fond of?
I would expect people to put aside their beliefs when making laws and decisions regarding anything, especially those. While the US is largely Christian, there are ALL KINDS out there. Laws shouldn't be made with one group in mind. Just because a lot of them probably are now doesn't mean it's right.
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6. What kind of question is that? I'll point out again, Palin IS NOT running for president. If the American people didn't think that Bush was qualified, they wouldn't have voted for him...twice. I was 10 years old when the 2000 election took place, and 2004 I wasn't quite as educated as I am now, so surprise, I'm not well versed on Bush's qualifications before he was elected, but I can tell you that one term of presidency sure as heck qualifies you for another, no matter how much you might disagree with his policies.
McCain is old. If he should croak before his term is over, she has full rein of all the power in the US. :(
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Let me clearly state her morals for you "If you are pregnant, you MUST have the baby, unless you are a member of my family, in which case I might show a little more concern for someone I care about. I don't want to see their life ruined by having a child at such an early age, but because I am pro-life, they should and will have the baby. I may have simply used the wrong word when I said "choice", but I'm a mother and I love my children. I'm not cold and heartless, so naturally I might say some things I don't mean. I wish liberals would stop taking everything I say out of context."
I should really group this up above but oh well.

I really think that, if she really respected and cared about her daughter's choice, she'd rethink her stance on the issue altogether. WHY is it okay for her daughter to have a choice when she advocates that no one should have a choice. I find it disgusting that she can have this viewpoint when "to abort or not to abort" was obviously a heated issue in her own household. Her daughter had a choice. She may have chosen to keep the baby, yes, but her daughter had the CHOICE. To take that choice from millions, especially in circumstances that they cannot control? That's disgusting. I don't care if she's not the personal mother of all those women--as a mother to someone who had to have struggled with the choice (and her daughter had consentual sex, which to me makes a big difference), she should realize how important it is that everyone should have the right to choose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allstories
By the way, did you know McCain and Palin believe that the victims should be the ones to foot the bill on a rape kit? What do you have to say about that?

THIS. THIS THIS THIS. This is disgusting! If someone breaks into your house and robs you, the government pays for the investigation, they pay for the fingerprinting, they pay for all of that. But if someone breaks into your house and rapes you--oh, we're sorry but you've gotta pay for the rape kit. What? You can't afford it? Well, sorry, but we aren't going to catch the culprit for you. Try again when you're richer! (And keep in mind that rape kits aren't cheap. They include hospital stay, an anti-contraceptive, etc. It adds up. D:)

lol my lunch break ended like 10 minutes ago. I should get back to work. 8/

Ivysaur September 22nd, 2008 10:06 AM

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Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3962641)
Yes....? What did any of that have to do with what I said about liberals? You might for drastic change to restore the U.S. to it's "former" glory. See? There you go again with the "America is broken" stuff. You think just because the U.S. has problems we're suddenly a horrible country to live in? Now you know why I call you hypocrites. You say you are patriots and love your country, but cannot bear to call it great anymore. You just said it above me, you don't think the U.S. is glorious. This isn't the first time we've had problems, and won't be the last. You want to scrap everything and start over again? We've dealt with problems before without a massive overhaul of old policies, why can't we do it now?

Hey, hey, hey, I never called myself "patriot" for the simple reason that I live in Spain, not in the US. But yeah, the US has problems, you said it, and that's why you have to solve them. But what have caused these problems? The policies you have been following, maybe? Solution? Change them! *hinthint*

Plus, I highly believe that a patriot is somebody that cares about his country and try to get the best for it, not one who sings the anthem louder than anybody and waves the flag each 30 seconds *points at the Republican convention*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3962641)
I don't believe everything I see on the news, because I know they are liberally biased and trying to get me to think differently than I do now. Oh wait! Solution! FOX NEWS!

Allstories already dealt with this: I seriously prefer liberal biased news to conservative biased news. But do you know what's the best option? WATCHING THEM BOTH, and taking your own oppinions after comparing them.

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Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3962641)
That's your opinion.

That's my experience after living in a country with Universal Health care for the last 17 years, as well as having my father working in a public hospital.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3962641)
Let me clearly state her morals for you "If you are pregnant, you MUST have the baby, unless you are a member of my family, in which case I might show a little more concern for someone I care about. I don't want to see their life ruined by having a child at such an early age, but because I am pro-life, they should and will have the baby. I may have simply used the wrong word when I said "choice", but I'm a mother and I love my children. I'm not cold and heartless, so naturally I might say some things I don't mean. I wish liberals would stop taking everything I say out of context."

Yeah, who cares for the children of people I don't know[/sarcasm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3962641)
Excuse me, but did you just call the U.S. less civilized than other countries because we don't allow abortion and gay marriage in our country? Mmm....Nice one. Honestly, I'm pretty apathetic about the gay marriage thing. It's going to happen at some point, just a matter of time. But abortion is just flat out wrong and I happen to believe we would be MORE civilized if we didn't allow it. Or is it civil to kill infants before they are even born? My mistake, murder is completely fair.

...okay, who was talking about "Taking things out of context"? I just said that more and more countries are allowing that, not that the US is not civilized for not doing so @[email protected]

And, about "murder being fair", just look at the people who are waiting for the electric chair. My bad, killing a bunch of cells that aren't even a being by themselves is a crime, killing a full living person isn't in some cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3962641)
Wow, you really do believe everything you read, don't you? I saw your article, and if that particular news outlet happened to be fair and show both sides of the argument, I might have paid some real attention to it. And that certainly isn't going to make me turn around and vote for someone with barely any foreign policy experience.

Okay, link to the news, including the original conversation: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lIcEa1CLhc8

Sorry, it's CNN news, sorry if I didn't find FOX, I took the first result that came up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3962641)
And yes it's a big problem. But this is not because of our economic policies. Where did you get that?

I got that because the problem started in the US bank system. If the US banks gave mortgages to people earning $800 a month just to get easy, fast money by making them last 60 years, I think it may be the fault of the country who allowed them, not Russia's fault (to say some random country).

Aurafire September 22nd, 2008 11:47 AM

I'm on my iPod right now, but I'll be sure to get back to all of you. 3 vs. 1 Is totally fair btw =p

Netto Azure September 22nd, 2008 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3963098)
I'm on my iPod right now, but I'll be sure to get back to all of you. 3 vs. 1 Is totally fair btw =p

4 vs. 1 now....=P

I have to agree with them...you've seen how vehemently I was for Universal Healthcare. Also if we can make things better for our fellow citizens, why shouldn't we. I mean we have more than $800 Billion for Wall St. in corporate welfare why can't we give some of that to the poor...(Yeah I know you'll say "throwing money") =D but eh I don't have time to elaborate yet...Also I'm probably going to rant and babble later on about my Mom voting Republican due to single-issue topics (Abortion & Gay-marrage) >:-(

Xairmo September 22nd, 2008 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3963098)
3 vs. 1 Is totally fair btw =p

Who ever said politics was "fair"? >.>
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3962092)
1. It's absolutely not ok, and I'm for reforming the healthcare system so that people aren't left behind. I'm not totally blind to the healthcare problems we have in this country, and I think they can be addressed without the use of socialized medicine. Sorry, I just don't agree with this. You might call those who don't want to pay more taxes to support universal healthcare greedy and selfish, but 1.Is it fair to some one who worked hard, went to college, got a degree and made money have it taken away from them and given to someone who say...didn't go to college, didn't work hard, and now needs the government to support them? (Yeah, yeah, this doesn't apply to everyone. Some people aren't at fault for being in poverty, but then again, some are.) And: 2. Where's that liberal fairness we all love? Like they say "Equality and Fairness, unless you're rich in which case we're taking your money." It works in other countries because other countries accept these socialistic policies, but I do not, and others will agree with me. (Note: Republicans. and that's a fair amount of people)

@TheBold: Is it fair to take hard earned money from people to bail out AIG? If I had to choose between my hard earned money going towards something like universal healthcare and bailing out heartless profit-machines, I'd pick universal healthcare. There are so many social and economical factors that hold people back. You could be the brightest person in the world and not be able to go to college to prove how bright you are on a resume because you couldn't afford it. People can't choose what families they're born into. We need to help those who can't help themselves. It might even bring a better sense of unity to this country.
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2. She's a mother. Her judgement here was obviously affected by strong emotions. You're telling me that if you were pro-life and your daughter got pregnant, you wouldn't care about how this would affect your daughters life? On the one hand, you could stick to your guns and say "No abortion", or you could actually give a darn about the welfare of your daughter. Having a child at that age is never good, and what kind of mother would she be if she didn't take that into account? I'm Pro-choice, and if my daughter was pregnant, I'd be conflicted as well. I can over-look this and give her some slack, but obviously will follow this to no end to see her suffer because of this.
How can you say you're Pro-choice? Just a second ago I read a post by you explaining how abortion is just flat out wrong!
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3. Oh blah, blah, blah...separation of church and state. How can you truly separate church and state when so many of our laws are linked so closely to religion? How about things like Gay marriage and Abortion? You would truly ask people to put their core beliefs aside and make a decision on this issue without first remembering how they grew up and how they live their life? You might as well ask everyone to not have morals and be atheists. Would that be the fairness that liberals are so fond of?
You have the right of Freedom of religion and I have the right to be gay.
@TheBold: OMFG! Christians are allowed their beliefs and think that me marrying another man is wrong, but how the hell does me getting married affect them? It's not like I'm forcing them to be gay! You're trying to set up a government based around Christian beliefs! You deserve to live your life however you want and follow whatever religion you want, just as I deserve all those same liberties! I'm tired of feeling like a second class citizen! I can't marry, I can't adopt (cuz you know all we queer-o-sexuals do is molest children right?), and I can't even join the army. It is still socially and politically accepted to discriminate against gay people.
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4. It's not, I don't agree that she has a lot of foreign policy experience. But that really isn't the biggest issue for me. Plus, Newsflash, she's running for vice president, not president. You would have me believe that Obama has legitimate foreign policy experience? Sorry, a few trips to Iraq and one senate term doesn't cut it for me.
She maybe running for VP, but there's a damn good chance McCain is going to die within his first term (if elected). I mean he's 72 and has had like every major skin cancer known to man.
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5. I'm currently not very educated about the circumstances of what exactly happened when she said that, so you win for now.
We just win period >.>
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6. What kind of question is that? I'll point out again, Palin IS NOT running for president. If the American people didn't think that Bush was qualified, they wouldn't have voted for him...twice. I was 10 years old when the 2000 election took place, and 2004 I wasn't quite as educated as I am now, so surprise, I'm not well versed on Bush's qualifications before he was elected, but I can tell you that one term of presidency sure as heck qualifies you for another, no matter how much you might disagree with his policies.
Bush is just an idiot. I haven't the time nor the patience to point out everything he's done wrong. Gore technically won, btw. *shot'd*
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If you loved America, you wouldn't be ashamed of it and what issues might be of importance. When your solution to our problems is to radically change what has made us so great, I don't buy that as patriotism. I'm not against change. The world is evolving, and so should we. But I think the media blows our problems out of proportion and creates an intense nervousness in people that causes them to panic and demand radical change that is not needed. The foundations of our country are strong. I believe in the policies that made America the great country that it is today, and I'm not going to scrap everything just because we have a few issues. Issues come and go, just as they always have. Did people in the past panic like they did today? No they did not.
People of the past DID panic quite a lot actually, ever hear of a lil' something called The Great Depression? And no one is trying to "radically" change America. Sure we believe there are things that need revisions, which is why we have these nifty little things called amendments. There's a difference in being ashamed of America, and being ashamed of what it's becoming. I love America, it's great here but there are aspects of America that piss me off. America isn't perfect, but according to you we must think it is to be patriotic, yes?

Cherrim September 22nd, 2008 1:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xairmo (Post 3963321)
How can you say you're Pro-choice? Just a second ago I read a post by you explaining how abortion is just flat out wrong!

That's actually quite possible. Someone can think something is wrong, but still agree to give the option to others. (Case in point, people who disagree with gay marriage but still wish EVERYONE to have the same, fair rights.) D: In fact, a lot of people who agree that abortion is just full-out murder also agree that it may be the best choice in some cases. That's just separating personal beliefs/religion from the law. :x

Aurafire September 22nd, 2008 1:28 PM

Allstories: I'll have to apologize for my "obtuseness" that you think I exhibit. There's you go with the name calling again. Paranoid cretin....haven't heard that one before. Forgive me if I'm coming off in a displeasing way. I'm just trying to express my opinions, not about you personally, but liberals in general. And while you continue to argue your points in a way that is characteristic of a liberal, I am forced to call you call you out on it. I'm so tired of arguing this, So you know what? STATEMENT RETRACTED. Liberals are unbiased, patriotic and don't think that the U.S. is a horrible place! HAPPY???

You've made me to goddamn angry about liberals and how they think, I really just could not help myself. The way you think, the way you argue your points....It just bothers me, ok? Feel free to bite right back with how you hate conservatives and such, at least I won't call you anything. I respect your opinion, but you obviously don't respect mine.

Fox News is not conservatively biased, and I invite you to prove me wrong. Don't mistake bias for giving both sides of the argument.

I am not religious, I'm agnostic. However, I believe that life is sacred and should be protected. That cluster of cells is a human life, sorry you don't see it that way, but I do. And thusly believe that the destruction of those cells is murder. And before you go jumping down my throat, in extreme cases of rape and when there is a danger to the mother's life, I think abortion is acceptable.

Lightning: I'm not as conservative as you might think on this issue. Sorry for not pointing this out before, but I am in favor of optional universal healthcare, and those who want/are in need of it should definitely have this option open to them, as long as it doesn't cost any more taxpayer money. I don't know how in the world we would fund it, but if it works, wonderful. The top 1% of the populations pays something like 35% of the U.S. tax burden, and I think that's high enough.

I already explained my position about abortion above: In extreme cases, yes abortion is acceptable, but I still don't like it, and that's my personal opinion on the issue.

I agree with you on the rape thing as well, it's ridiculous. I am totally against that law.

And thank you for being civil, Lightning. You expressed your views in a very calm way (Unlike some people I know...)

Went: Sorry about that, I forgot that you live in spain. And yes, some of our current policies have been causing problems and need changing, I agree. We just disagree on which issues and how to correctly deal with them. I also agree with your definition of a patriot, I just happen to disagree on the way people choose to express themselves as such for reasons that should already be clear.

I CERTAINLY agree with you on getting both sides of the argument and making your own decisions, but the point is most people in our county do not in fact get both sides of the argument, thus altering theit own decision-making abilities. And again, I invite you to prove to me that Fox News in conservatively biased.

Our death penalty system is an absolute joke. You might be convicted of a crime and sentenced to death and wait upwards of 15-20 years before you've exhausted all your appeals. That's not a death penalty. The system is broken, but yes, I'm a supporter of the death penalty. I just think the way we go about enforcing it is horrible.

Thanks for the link. Yup, McCain came off as a blubbering idiot. The man isn't perfect, and I never said he was. The U.S. doesn't have anything against Spain, and I'm pretty sure we maintain a policy of friendship with them...McCain could have just came out and said that. -_-

Ugh...please let's not get into the banking crisis. (Yes it's a crisis)...I'm not fully versed on this issue as well.

Also Went, thank you also for being civil and expressing your points clearly. (Unlike some people I know)

Tommy: 4 vs. 1? No problem =P

Hopefully I've made my views on healthcare clear.

Honestly, when it's 4 minds against one, you all make me sound like an idiot. I guess that's just what I get for being an 18 year old conservative....I'm already vastly out numbered. The vast majority of young people are liberal, and sometimes I find myself thinking that the words that come out of my mouth don't even make sense because of everything I hear from my peers. Just know that there are plenty of other people out there that think like me and will back me up. Unfortunately, PC seems to be out of those people -_-

EDIT: 5 VS 1! Thanks Xairmo....the nail in the coffin. Because this thread has debate in the title, I'm forced to comment on it. BUT I DON'T NEED 5 PEOPLE QUOTING EVERY ONE OF MY POSTS SAYING HOW I'M FLAT OUT WRONG. 1 or 2 is fine. But you guys just do not let up, do you???

I don't even know anymore. I'm not going to take the time and effort to try to explain the Republicans argument if I don't even get any enjoyment out of it. I'm honestly quite tired of this. Please rename this thread "Election 2008: Why Democrats are right and Republicans aren't"

Just to clarify: I AM PRO LIFE. You have seriously got to be kidding me. I never, EVER, said I was pro choice. My beliefs on abortion should be clear. Yes, now I see the typo. But seriously dude, couldn't you have just realized that, or we're you just too eager to prove me wrong?

Allstories September 22nd, 2008 1:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3963397)
Allstories: Fox News is not conservatively biased, and I invite you to prove me wrong. Don't mistake bias for giving both sides of the argument.

Do you consider Hannity & Colmes to be a balanced debate show?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3963397)
I don't know how in the world we would fund it, but if it works, wonderful.

If you have health insurance in America chances are you are paying out the wazoo for it to some blood-sucking insurance company. Why not just pay for health care through taxes and allow everyone to at least be able to see a doctor if they need to, instead of weigh the economic risks of their right to live?

Cherrim September 22nd, 2008 2:23 PM

We aren't ganging up on you, though most of us did joke about it. You just happen to be the only one here defending that viewpoint right now unless someone wants to play devil's advocate. Like you said, the younger generation is just very liberal (especially the forum-goers, as I've noticed) so it's not really a fair debate in that sense. :(

Anyway, Allstories just summed up my reply to the health care thing. But I'll also toss in that universal health care can't be an opt-in, opt-out thing. It wouldn't work that way, because the funds just wouldn't be significant enough.

Aurafire September 22nd, 2008 3:18 PM

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Originally Posted by Lightning (Post 3963616)
[font=tahoma]We aren't ganging up on you, though most of us did joke about it. You just happen to be the only one here defending that viewpoint right now unless someone wants to play devil's advocate. Like you said, the younger generation is just very liberal (especially the forum-goers, as I've noticed) so it's not really a fair debate in that sense. :(

Which is why there's no point for me to argue on my behalf, I'll just end up being proved wrong and looking foolish. What's the point? No one is going to change each others core views, that's why everyone argues so ferociously and we resort to name-calling and hostility towards each other. It really can't be helped. I try my best to argue my points in a calm manner, but even I let my emotions get carried away. One little paragraph of unreasonable anger totally ruined this for me.

And really....if no one agrees with me, I get nothing out of this. So yeah, I'm done for now.

Chibi-chan September 22nd, 2008 4:13 PM



Just to lighten up this conversation. :D
....Continue.

Aurafire September 22nd, 2008 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi-chan (Post 3964069)

Just to lighten up this conversation. :D

I will say this...he's not the best dancer in the world. XD

Red1530 September 22nd, 2008 4:55 PM

I read the CNN article about Wasilla charging for rape kits. Wasilla was not the only town to charge for them as some posters conveniently forget to mention. Also according to local records the issue was not brought up at city meetings.

To the posters that say governors are not qualified to be President, I have a list of twentieth century presidents that were governors.
  • William McKinley, Governor of Ohio, 1892-96
  • Theodore Roosevelt, Governor of New York, 1898-1900
  • William Howard Taft, Governor of the Philippines, 1901-04
  • Woodrow Wilson, Governor of New Jersey, 1911-13
  • Calvin Coolidge, Governor of Massachusetts, 1919-20
  • Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Governor of New York, 1929-33
  • James Earl Carter, Jr., Governor of Georgia, 1971-75
  • Ronald Wilson Reagan, Governor of California, 1967-75
  • William Jefferson Clinton, Governor of Arkansas, 1978-80, 1982-92
  • George Walker Bush, Governor of Texas, 1995-2000

Volkner's Apprentice September 22nd, 2008 5:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Red1530 (Post 3960581)
I would like to address the concerns about Governor Palin. When she was nominated for Vice-President, she already had more experience then Senator Obama. She ran a small town and a small business. She is currently running a state and while running that state took on corruption in her own party. While she lacks foreign policy experience, she is not going to be conducting foreign policy. It is highly unlikely that if Senator McCain was elected President, he is going to die in the first thirty days office. So if McCain dies in office, Palin will be ready as she has some time for training, unlike to top spot.

Okay so, everyone does realize the giant fiasco that just happened his ^--his fault right?

Getting back on topic, the current issue of debate was education and not "Let's splurge right back into Democrats vs. Republicans part twelve-hundred and sixty two." O_O

Seriously dude, read the current discussion before hurtling the masses into an uproar. I'm even voting for McCain and I'm disliking that guy for not thinking before turning a handful of PC greats against Aurasphere in this respect. Not to insult you Red, but if you want to state your beliefs about the election in general, perhaps that can be done during somewhat of an intermission to topics? From what I can see those statements were present at the beginning and only the beginning of this thread, afterwards it's just side-track on issues which debate threads try to avoid. There is a difference between debating something and arguing with someone, just to clear that up. If you want to enrage someone, do it on your own time, that goes for everyone to responded too. There is such a thing as level-headed behavior. You have to analysis a collection of posted information before you deem "wow this person is insulting me" when one should be thinking "Oh he's misunderstanding what I'm presenting, let me try to clear things up from my point of view."

Just remember we're all here because of our love of Pokemon :mudkip^_^:, don't let political issues come completely between you and another user. Respecting other's viewpoints is key to success, you don't get there by ganging up or name calling. Politics might seem like the only fun to it is completely ripping each other apart, but hey, c'mon, focus on the real things at stake here. What are you going to do by doing that? That is the worst way of trying to get someone to see your point of view. It's also the worst way, which if you didn't notice is what politicians usually try to do, to persuade the public to think like they do. How else will they get your vote?

Being honest, I'm sure once in awhile everyone likes to blow off steam and this kind of thing seems the best way to do it, but when you take into consideration that these issues kind of reflect our countries and...well, our futures? That's kind of an important thing to be taken calmly. Swiftly, sure, but calm would be nice. So again, not pointing fingers, Red, but it's probably better not to taunt the masses.

So ANYWAY, what does everyone think about education? Hopefully everyone chimes in for the particular issues and not just ZOMG ARGUMENT, ME JOIN. -_-

Netto Azure September 22nd, 2008 5:27 PM

True!!! Bravo!!! *clap-clap*
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Volkner's Apprentice (Post 3964277)
Okay so, everyone does realize the giant fiasco that just happened his ^--his fault right?

Getting back on topic, the current issue of debate was education and not "Let's splurge right back into Democrats vs. Republicans part twelve-hundred and sixty two." O_O

Seriously dude, read the current discussion before hurtling the masses into an uproar. I'm even voting for McCain and I'm disliking that guy for not thinking before turning a handful of PC greats against Aurasphere in this respect. Not to insult you Red, but if you want to state your beliefs about the election in general, perhaps that can be done during somewhat of an intermission to topics? From what I can see those statements were present at the beginning and only the beginning of this thread, afterwards it's just side-track on issues which debate threads try to avoid. There is a difference between debating something and arguing with someone, just to clear that up. If you want to enrage someone, do it on your own time, that goes for everyone to responded too. There is such a thing as level-headed behavior. You have to analysis a collection of posted information before you deem "wow this person is insulting me" when one should be thinking "Oh he's misunderstanding what I'm presenting, let me try to clear things up from my point of view."

Just remember we're all here because of our love of Pokemon :mudkip^_^:, don't let political issues come completely between you and another user. Respecting other's viewpoints is key to success, you don't get there by ganging up or name calling. Politics might seem like the only fun to it is completely ripping each other apart, but hey, c'mon, focus on the real things at stake here. What are you going to do by doing that? That is the worst way of trying to get someone to see your point of view. It's also the worst way, which if you didn't notice is what politicians usually try to do, to persuade the public to think like they do. How else will they get your vote?

Being honest, I'm sure once in awhile everyone likes to blow off steam and this kind of thing seems the best way to do it, but when you take into consideration that these issues kind of reflect our countries and...well, our futures? That's kind of an important thing to be taken calmly. Swiftly, sure, but calm would be nice. So again, not pointing fingers, Red, but it's probably better not to taunt the masses.

So ANYWAY, what does everyone think about education? Hopefully everyone chimes in for the particular issues and not just ZOMG ARGUMENT, ME JOIN. -_-


Wow...I totally forgot about the education part...=P But yes, our passion for our views on politics can cloud ourselves and hurt other people's feelings (Sorry...Aura (;_; ) Yes our love for Pocket Monsters (Yay for PokeSpe!) is what brought us here to this forum. Let's not devolve this debate thread into "my political party is better than yours" arguments. Let's start by not devolving to name calling (Seriously has anybody read that breach of etiquette exchange between me and Aura, Then how I resented it later) You guys are some of the MOST friendliest people I have ever seen. Let's not have our Political views create schisms and grudges, remember the person your replying to IS A PERSON!)

SO LETS KEEP DISCUSSIONS ON TOPIC AND ON THE ISSUES! PLEASE :D

Also I'm watching PBS and they're right Wall St. is changing right in front of our eyes...Very historic times...=D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi-chan (Post 3964069)

Just to lighten up this conversation. :D
....Continue.

ROTFL!!!!This is the kind of humour that we need to calm everybody...XPPPPP

=D

And yeah let us try not to be a bunch of hypocritical politicians. Seriously if politicians just follow what they say in their 4th of July speeches things might actually become better, Instead of taking lobbyist money and become a bunch of corporate sellouts. Help...Don't bash me...XD

Red1530 September 25th, 2008 6:00 AM

President Bush has summoned top lawmakers including Senators John McCain and Barack Obama to a meting in the White House to discuss the Bailout plan.

Netto Azure September 25th, 2008 6:42 AM

Yup....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Red1530 (Post 3970802)
President Bush has summoned top lawmakers including Senators John McCain and Barack Obama to a meting in the White House to discuss the Bailout plan.

I was going to post that....But yeah...Photo-op for Bush? Yet I just hope all of them WOULD ACTUALLY DISCUSS THE PATH TO TAKE DURING THIS CRISIS. Politics would of course get into this since Either senator will become President.

Anyways the first Presidential Debate was scheduled for Friday (Wow...Moderated by Jim Lehrer? I might actually watch this one since I always try to tune into "The News Hour w/ Jim Lehrer" on PBS which I trust...?cautiously?) but the economic crisis will probably postpone it while McCain, Obama, Congress, and Congress debate on which course to take.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=at0jj_i8qxN4&refer=us

Anyways in anticipation for the Presidential/VP Debates:
If you could ask the Presidential/VP candidates one question what would it be?


Me...I'm not sure since it's an opportunity of the lifetime...

Also if you want to talk about the Economy and Education, go ahead...

Now for some Campaign ads: I know they're outdated since it was made before/around the Primaries. Sorry Republicans if it's offending but I just had to post it since this is a Pocket Monsters forum. Seriously if Campaign ads were made like this, maybe we'll actually listen to them for once.

If you guys have found a Republican version post it....=D

Red1530 September 25th, 2008 6:20 PM

Great video finds vtommy1.

Netto Azure September 26th, 2008 6:30 AM

Heh...^_^
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Red1530 (Post 3972423)
Great video finds vtommy1.


I actually found these a couple of months ago during the primaries....I actually wanted to post them up but was too lazy to do so...But yeah they're funny...If politics were like this things would be A LOT EASIER...=P J/K

So anybody watching the Presidential Debates tonight?

I'll try since the economy is tanking as it is...But isn't it supposed to be about foreign policy?

wolf September 26th, 2008 6:35 AM

This might be off topic for a moment. But do you think McCain is going to the debate tonight?

Volkner's Apprentice September 26th, 2008 7:24 AM

Haha, I saw the first video earlier in the summer but the Ron Paul one I like better, it has better graphics :P

Netto Azure September 26th, 2008 9:59 AM

Of course...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowmightyena (Post 3973361)
This might be off topic for a moment. But do you think McCain is going to the debate tonight?

He has to go...Every single politically aware/undecided voter is waiting for what they're going to say about the economy...even though the topic is about Foreign Policy, I think they'll be able to squeeze in a question or two about the economy

Red1530 September 26th, 2008 5:56 PM

Senator McCain has decided to go to the debate. The first forty-five minutes of the debate was focused on the economy. Now it has moved onto the original topic of foreign policy. Also I am posting the JibJab satire of this campaign.

Aurafire September 26th, 2008 6:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red1530 (Post 3974997)
Senator McCain has decided to go to the debate. The first forty-five minutes of the debate was focused on the economy. Now it has moved onto the original topic of foreign policy. Also I am posting the JibJab satire of this campaign.

I'm watching right now...It's pretty good so far. This could just me be being a McCain supporter, but he's doing a great job. He already totally discredited Obama's point that he'd be 4 more years of Bush, and he sounds way more sure about himself and his policies than Obama (big surprise there....)

Working Class Hero September 26th, 2008 6:25 PM

What I just love about McCain is that:

About 90% of his commercials just bash Obama and say what Obama wont do. But still wont say what McCain will do.
McCain says he is against lobbyists. While, all of his advisers are lobbyists. :\
McCain voted with Bush on economic issues. Also with things like privatizing social secrurity. Which would cause basically anyone over 75 years old to become poor. :\

McCain will be a Bush. Although I will say McCain > Bush....Everyone > Bush. :] (Also to all those idiots, being imprisoned during war is NOT a qualification to be president. His senate terms are. So stop saying "WELL HE WAS IMPRISONED IN VIETNAM" or you will get a "WELL MY FOOT IS IN YOUR EYE")

At least Obama isn't a hypocrite and says what he will do.

Obama all the way. Why?

He actually says what he WILL do.
He doesn't spend 99% of his life just bashing the other candidates.
He isn't Bush.
He wont spend 12 billion dollars a month on a quite possibly endless war.

Oh, and he has common sense. That is always fun.

Aurafire September 26th, 2008 7:00 PM

Anywho.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helios Neri (Post 3975078)
What I just love about McCain is that:

About 90% of his commercials just bash Obama and say what Obama wont do. But still wont say what McCain will do.

Don't be naive, both candidates are doing equal amounts of bashing...That's all that this campaign has been so far. You're telling me that Obama is not bashing McCain in his ads? Have you even seen any of these adds?

McCain says he is against lobbyists. While, all of his advisers are lobbyists. :\

Haha, nice point. Proof is always good instead of just spewing random facts out.

McCain voted with Bush on economic issues. Also with things like privatizing social secrurity. Which would cause basically anyone over 75 years old to become poor.

Do you even understand the social security situation? How would privatizing social security cause the elderly to become poor? Social Security funds are being used on other spending, NO ONE is getting their SS money, so if the elderly aren't getting the money in the first place, it's not really an issue....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helios Neri (Post 3975078)
McCain will be a Bush. Although I will say McCain > Bush....Everyone > Bush. :] (Also to all those idiots, being imprisoned during war is NOT a qualification to be president. His senate terms are. So stop saying "WELL HE WAS IMPRISONED IN VIETNAM" or you will get a "WELL MY FOOT IS IN YOUR EYE")

McCain will be a Bush? Just like that? Please.....Iraq? The environment? Immigration? Do you even look at the issues, or are you just echoing the liberal media?

His time in Vietnam was a defining moment in his life and shaped him as a politician. No one is saying that being a POW qualifies you to be president. However, the character and resolve that he gained during this time is DEFINITELY a qualification.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helios Neri (Post 3975078)
At least Obama isn't a hypocrite and says what he will do.

Ahahaha, I could have so much fun with this. But there's so many ways that Barack Obama is a hypocrite, I'd get tired of listing all of them...

You really need to stop saying random stuff and expect people to believe them. Unfortunately, just by reading what you say, people will automatically assume it's the truth. No politician is entirely truthful about their policies, making them all hypocrites. Obama is no different.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Helios Neri (Post 3975078)
Obama all the way. Why?

He actually says what he WILL do.

That's such a horrible point. Both of them are doing the exact same thing in their campaigns, how the heck are you drawing any differences between the truth in their words? Are you really that naive about this election?

He doesn't spend 99% of his life just bashing the other candidates.

Again, BOTH candidates are bashing, not just one.

He isn't Bush.

Not really a point at all. Of course he's not Bush, he's a Democrat, and that's up for scrutiny as well.

He wont spend 12 billion dollars a month on a quite possibly endless war.

But he'll spend billions in Afghanistan, is that really a better alternative in your view?

Oh, and he has common sense. That is always fun.

That's not an intelligent comment at all

The only thing I can draw from all of your comments is that you are incredibly caught up in the liberal media's message. Every single one of your points was an echo of everything that the media is saying about McCain. Don't believe everything you hear dude. Get educated on the issues, and stop spewing out those random facts, and we could actually debate some of your points if you backed them up....

supertails September 26th, 2008 7:17 PM

The Election is rigged anyway but I'm voting for Obama.

True Justice September 26th, 2008 7:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supertails (Post 3975191)
The Election is rigged anyway but I'm voting for Obama.

Haha, so true. I can't vote yet (lame) but me and my family are all proud supporters of Obama. Personally, I love his view on getting off our dependence on foreign oil and start investing on alternative sources of energy. And tomorrow, there's a meeting in a school near my house where Obama supporters are supposed to go canvassing. And I'm going.

EDIT: @ Aurasphere: My definition of rigged is when a candidate wins the popular vote but not the electoral vote, which is what really matters. Or when something occurs to interfere with the votes of the election. Ex: Election 2000, Gore won the popular vote but not the electoral vote. And the hanging chads on ballots were never counted, possibly stealing the election from Gore. Now tell me some things aren't rigged.

Aurafire September 26th, 2008 7:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supertails (Post 3975191)
The Election is rigged anyway but I'm voting for Obama.

How would you call the election "rigged"? Specify....don't just say it's rigged and be done with it....

Working Class Hero September 26th, 2008 7:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3975151)
Anywho.....





McCain will be a Bush? Just like that? Please.....Iraq? The environment? Immigration? Do you even look at the issues, or are you just echoing the liberal media?

The only thing McCain is different from Bush is that he actually has good environmental plans...to an extent..

His time in Vietnam was a defining moment in his life and shaped him as a politician. No one is saying that being a POW qualifies you to be president. However, the character and resolve that he gained during this time is DEFINITELY a qualification.

Because PTSD and the nuclear button go so well together. :3 Why don't we just throw in mobility issues, cancer and age in with it!

Ahahaha, I could have so much fun with this. But there's so many ways that Barack Obama is a hypocrite, I'd get tired of listing all of them...

Get tired.

You really need to stop saying random stuff and expect people to believe them. Unfortunately, just by reading what you say, people will automatically assume it's the truth. No politician is entirely truthful about their policies, making them all hypocrites. Obama is no different.


Hm, it isn't random judging how they are facts. Maybe YOU should pay more attention.


The only thing I can draw from all of your comments is that you are incredibly caught up in the liberal media's message. Every single one of your points was an echo of everything that the media is saying about McCain. Don't believe everything you hear dude. Get educated on the issues, and stop spewing out those random facts, and we could actually debate some of your points if you backed them up....

Please tell me where I said Obama doesn't bash. I just implied that McCain does it MORE.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/03/31/2008-03-31_key_mccain_advisors_were_lobbyists_for_s.html

Proof is fun! ^^

About me not knowing the issues, maybe you should look at them. Everything about the enviroment, economics, immigration all that fun stuff McCain voted FOR Bush's proposals on those issues.

Also, if SS is privatized, the person themselves will have to pay for it. Not the government. And most people can't pay for it. :\ Not everyone is rich.

Also, about half of your additions would be considered flaming. Have fun! :D

And, the common sense thing was supposed to be a joke. In case you didn't notice. :3

He will spend LESS THAN 12 BILLION in Afghanistan so yes, it is better.

And if you watch any of the speeches, you will see that all McCain does is say what Obama wont do. Actually, this debate is the first time I have actually heard him say a lot of things on what he is going to do.

Tamaki September 26th, 2008 7:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3975229)
How would you call the election "rigged"? Specify....don't just say it's rigged and be done with it....

I think I know what he's talking about... I saw a program about this a few months ago.

I'm not entirely sure, because I only saw the program once, but there was a lot of evidence suggesting that the Republicans rigged some of the voting machines to count votes differently.

...You could look it up, if you're interested, because I don't know too much about it.
---
On topic, I'm not old enough to vote but I'm 100% for Obama. McCain winning the election would be almost exactly like four more years of Bush...

I did watch the debate tonight, and tbh, I don't think anyone "won" it. I do, however, think that Obama sounded better, like he had all the facts more together than McCain. McCain was just too vague, and not sticking to the point.

...Yes. I'm done.

Gunn September 27th, 2008 1:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3975229)
How would you call the election "rigged"?

I believe he means the electoral college.

I watched the debate. The entire thing was just, Obama, "Something something something ..," McCain, "My opponent doesn't understand."

Red1530 September 27th, 2008 6:31 AM

The Electoral Collage does a fairly good job at representing the will of the people. It has only gone against the will of the people only four times in the history of the United Sates. Also I am posting the entire debate. The YouTube video is broken up into eleven parts. This video in this post is part one and the rest of the parts are accessible after part one is done.

Netto Azure September 27th, 2008 8:51 AM

Quick Thoughts
 
The debate was pure substance, no lipstick on whatever. It was of course expected that McCain is better on FP. Both candidates knew the facts ....But the economy is what on the voters minds right now and I think it was a draw.

Both candidates sidestepped the issue of which programs to cut due to the Wall. St. Bailout. Maybe on the next debate we'll find out more.

Loved it when Obama said: "this orgy of spending" Yes, I'm immature =P

Allstories September 27th, 2008 9:46 AM

I thought the debate was disappointingly even. Obama looked presidential and had all the right ideas and stuff, but McCain kept sneering and interuppting him every two seconds to distort and oversimplify all of Obama's ideas, and so Obama naturally had to contest them all for being untrue and they both just ended up wasting lots of time. Obama's gotta be more forceful, which is an unfortunate requirement.

Here's hoping Biden rips Palin a new one next week.

Netto Azure September 27th, 2008 2:59 PM

Hmm...Debate Thoughts...continued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Allstories (Post 3976958)
I thought the debate was disappointingly even. Obama looked presidential and had all the right ideas and stuff, but McCain kept sneering and interuppting him every two seconds to distort and oversimplify all of Obama's ideas, and so Obama naturally had to contest them all for being untrue and they both just ended up wasting lots of time. Obama's gotta be more forceful, which is an unfortunate requirement.

Here's hoping Biden rips Palin a new one next week.

Thoughts...

The interrupting looked real...Democrats in general should develop a backbone and retaliate to such smear campaigns. But the candidates have to look to the public as being above such partisanship due to the economic crisis....

Has anybody noticed that McCain didn't even look towards Obama throughout the debate...and kept on saying Sen. Obama (third-person)...just a thought on body language....

Can't wait to next weeks VP debates...Gwen Iffil's moderating, another PBS newscaster...I can trust that. Let's see how the "shapeshifting" VP's positions will be (Don't worry they'll be coached by the "best" political analysts of the campaigns.)

Also can't wait for the next Presidential Debate on the economy (Lucky they were able to squeeze in the economy last night. Many voters were looking forward on that.)

Unlike some other Presidential Debates there wasn't anything quotable from this one for History books nor the "funnies" both sticked to pure facts and their campaign points nothing on the change that the $700 Billion bailout of Wall.St on their proposed programs....

Except McCain's proposed Full spending freeze (that's new) except on defence, veterans benefits, forgot the last one...this was the only thing surprising....But there are other things that need work, not just foreign policy and defence since this is a Global Economy....

supertails September 27th, 2008 5:10 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF5Kdm4Eu6w

Netto Azure September 28th, 2008 10:20 AM

Hehhh...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by supertails (Post 3978436)

I remember that....it was during the primaries....I first found out about "The Onion" in USC during the "Youth Health Career Conference 2008." It was very funny...I actually took it seriously 'till the middle of the Parody Newspaper...=P I'm so gullible....LOL

Also anybody heard about DHS "hiring" the Muppets to warn us about the "evil doers" out there...No offence but that's just humourous...

Rudy23 September 28th, 2008 11:09 AM

A little off-topic but:
Does any1 here actually find McCain to be a war hero? I dnt find anything heroic about bombing innocent civilian villages in 'nam.

Aurafire September 28th, 2008 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy23 (Post 3981373)
A little off-topic but:
Does any1 here actually find McCain to be a war hero? I dnt find anything heroic about bombing innocent civilian villages in 'nam.

That's a pretty ignorant statement, seeing as almost every single major war in world history has had civilian casualties. They are unavoidable. It's called war for a reason, and it's never fair for everyone. That being said, John McCain served in the Navy for many years and was a POW for six of them. He never gave up information that would compromise the U.S. war effort even after being tortured mercilessly. He sacrificed his own safety and well-being for the good of his fellow soldiers and his country, putting his life at risk, and doing so without hesitation. He exemplified what it truly means to be a soldier in the U.S. armed forces. Yes, John McCain is a war hero. What, may I ask, is your definition?

Rudy23 September 28th, 2008 3:08 PM

I know he suffered alot in that POW hell for 6 years, and never tlked but the mission in 'nam was anything but heroic (look up the massacres of innocent viatnemese by american troops). Atleast in WW2 we were fighting a REAL threat (Nazis, Japan, etc.), but in 'nam to many ppl lost their lives in a conflict that had no real positive outcome (much like our "war on terror")

Red1530 September 28th, 2008 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy23 (Post 3982510)
I know he suffered alot in that POW hell for 6 years, and never tlked but the mission in 'nam was anything but heroic (look up the massacres of innocent viatnemese by american troops). Atleast in WW2 we were fighting a REAL threat (Nazis, Japan, etc.), but in 'nam to many ppl lost their lives in a conflict that had no real positive outcome (much like our "war on terror")

So let me get this straight, you are saying that terrorists are not a threat like the Germans and Japanese were during World War II. Did you forget about the September 11 attacks, the worse attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor.

supertails September 28th, 2008 4:53 PM

Theirs no just thing as a war hero. The first casualty of war is the truth. We don't go to war unless were tricked and you know what Nam wasn't met to be won it was met to go the distance. Wars are corporate lies and 911 was the biggest. No one benefited from it but the leaders in our country. It's ashame the Land of the Free became the Land of the Enslaved. I'd watch our flag burn for an hour before I saloot it again and guess what I was born and bread here. The American Dream is over, The American Nightmare as only just begun.

Aurafire September 28th, 2008 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supertails (Post 3983012)
Theirs no just thing as a war hero. The first casualty of war is the truth. We don't go to war unless were tricked and you know what Nam wasn't met to be won it was met to go the distance. Wars are corporate lies and 911 was the biggest. No one benefited from it but the leaders in our country. It's ashame the Land of the Free became the Land of the Enslaved. I'd watch our flag burn for an hour before I saloot it again and guess what I was born and bread here. The American Dream is over, The American Nightmare as only just begun.

That is absolutely sickening. SICKENING! It's you kind of people that should be ashamed to call yourself an American.

No such thing as a war hero? Have you no respect for the brave men and women who fight for our safety EVERY SINGLE DAY? Every single one of our soldiers who is fighting or has fought in any war that the US has been involved in is a hero in my opinion. It takes a special kind of person to lay their life on the line, putting the greater good of their country above themselves. I can't even fathom the INCREDIBLE amount of ignorance that must be inside that mind of yours for you to disrespect millions and millions of veterans that have fought and died to protect the very freedoms that you enjoy EVERY SINGLE DAY? HAVE YOU NO RESPECT? HAVE YOU NO THANKFULNESS? Are you not aware that if not for the US military, we would not even be alive right now? You think that wars are waged for corporate and government gain? You are so wrong, I can't even believe that I am typing this right now. You think that 9/11 and the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention every other war in modern US history, are/were fought so that Bush and the "evil" big business corporations can benefit? You and your twisted mind think that America is broken and twisted and a former shadow of the greatness that it once was?

I have one message for you and people that share your views: Leave. Get out of here. I for one am ashamed that we live in a country where our very own citizens think that our own government and military are scum. Move to Canada. Move to Europe. Move to freakin Antarctica for all I care. If America has become "The land of the Enslaved" how can you bear to live, benefit, and enjoy the freedom that you and your kind take for granted? You make me sick.

And at least use proper grammar when sharing your disgusting and vile opinions. I'm fairly sure "saloot" isn't a word, and "born and bread" is also pretty confusing.

supertails September 28th, 2008 9:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3983158)
That is absolutely sickening. SICKENING! It's you kind of people that should be ashamed to call yourself an American.

No such thing as a war hero? Have you no respect for the brave men and women who fight for our safety EVERY SINGLE DAY? Every single one of our soldiers who is fighting or has fought in any war that the US has been involved in is a hero in my opinion. It takes a special kind of person to lay their life on the line, putting the greater good of their country above themselves. I can't even fathom the INCREDIBLE amount of ignorance that must be inside that mind of yours for you to disrespect millions and millions of veterans that have fought and died to protect the very freedoms that you enjoy EVERY SINGLE DAY? HAVE YOU NO RESPECT? HAVE YOU NO THANKFULNESS? Are you not aware that if not for the US military, we would not even be alive right now? You think that wars are waged for corporate and government gain? You are so wrong, I can't even believe that I am typing this right now. You think that 9/11 and the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention every other war in modern US history, are/were fought so that Bush and the "evil" big business corporations can benefit? You and your twisted mind think that America is broken and twisted and a former shadow of the greatness that it once was?

I have one message for you and people that share your views: Leave. Get out of here. I for one am ashamed that we live in a country where our very own citizens think that our own government and military are scum. Move to Canada. Move to Europe. Move to freakin Antarctica for all I care. If America has become "The land of the Enslaved" how can you bear to live, benefit, and enjoy the freedom that you and your kind take for granted? You make me sick.

And at least use proper grammar when sharing your disgusting and vile opinions. I'm fairly sure "saloot" isn't a word, and "born and bread" is also pretty confusing.

I'm a part of the Solution not the problem. It's people like me they fear. Bush and all of his little men are the only ones to benefit and I'll be moving to Canada but when everyone else sees what I see, I'll come down and fight with ya. I will love to instill a new government, free from the evil businesses. I'm guessing you never heard of War Corporatism. Let me tell you, 911 and all the wars we've been in has War Corporatism written all over them and I feel for those men too. They died to fight fictional enemies. 911 was a lie that killed over 3000 people, only leading to the deaths of millions of other people just because The Bush Family and all the other businesses didn't feel they had enough money. I hate this country and I'd love to see it as our forefathers made it but because of what happened in 1913 it'll never be the same. In 1913 was the year The USA became owned by the Banks and all the Wars since was to put millions of dollars into their wallets. We are no longer the country of free people but the country of the rich and the powerful. I am not proud to be an American because how can one be proud to kill for money. I know Bush and his men are. Bush is Hitler and his men and the businesses that caused this fake war are EVIL, EVIL men. Bush and his men are EVIL because they caused 911 and killed millions just for money. FDR was the same and all the other businesses kill every single day just to make money.

Aurafire September 28th, 2008 9:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supertails (Post 3983729)
I'm a part of the Solution not the problem. It's people like me they fear. Bush and all of his little men are the only ones to benefit and I'll be moving to Canada but when everyone else sees what I see, I'll come down and fight with ya. I will love to instill a new government, free from the evil businesses. I'm guessing you never heard of War Corporatism. Let me tell you, 911 and all the wars we've been in has War Corporatism written all over them and I feel for those men too. They died to fight fictional enemies. 911 was a lie that killed over 3000 people, only leading to the deaths of millions of other people just because The Bush Family and all the other businesses didn't feel they had enough money. I hate this country and I'd love to see it as our forefathers made it but because of what happened in 1913 it'll never be the same. In 1913 was the year The USA became owned by the Banks and all the Wars since was to put millions of dollars into their wallets. We are no longer the country of free people but the country of the rich and the powerful. I am not proud to be an American because how can one be proud to kill for money. I know Bush and his men are. Bush is Hitler and his men and the businesses that caused this fake war are EVIL, EVIL men. Bush and his men are EVIL because they caused 911 and killed millions just for money. FDR was the same and all the other businesses kill every single day just to make money.

Yeah have fun with that buddy. I'll just be chilling with the other 99.9% of the entire US population who aren't complete lunatics.

supertails September 28th, 2008 9:43 PM

Actually it's the other way away around.

Aurafire September 28th, 2008 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supertails (Post 3983764)
Actually it's the other way away around.

Oh, I'm sorry. I almost forgot that the majority of the United States believes that 9/11 was an inside job. Of course, how could I be so silly! Conspiracy theorists obviously represent the overwhelming majority of the population.

If this is the case, if 99.9% of Americans believe that 9/11 was an inside job, I'd tend to think that we'd probably here more about how Bush and his evil henchmen killed 3,000 innocent people instead of islamic terrorists. But oh well, you're probably right. What was I thinking?

I'm not going to argue with you any more dude. There's is absolutely no point.

supertails September 28th, 2008 9:57 PM

Actually I meant to say that 99.9% are lunatics and the other .1% like me are smart. I was meaning to reverse the insult from me to you. You called me a lunatic and I reserved it back to you.

Cherrim September 29th, 2008 3:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supertails (Post 3983729)
Bush is Hitler and his men and the businesses that caused this fake war are EVIL, EVIL men. Bush and his men are EVIL because they caused 911 and killed millions just for money.

...you're comparing Bush to Hitler!? I can't be the only one who finds that horribly insulting. :| Listen, we don't CARE that you're a conspiracy theorist. Your reasoning is terrible and thoroughly unconvincing. You wanna bring that stuff up, do it in a separate thread so you can be argued with there or something (though you may have help considering some of the posts in the 9/11 thread this year <_<). Your spam is unneeded in this thread; it's both unneeded and irrelevant. And seriously--no comparing people to Hitler whether you know them or not. That's a very, very hefty accusation and I don't think you have enough of a claim to back that up anyway so watch what you say. (Strange, I have this odd feeling I've told you this before.)

Anyway, get on topic or get out of this thread. Go make a conspiracy thread in OC to keep yourself occupied if you have to. :|

supertails September 29th, 2008 4:28 AM

I'll do that. Not only do I have enough of a claim, I have proof. We only punish the poor and weak now. Sure there were some celebes but the businesses and puallitions are above the law. I'm going to leave this alone now and going to the OC.

Netto Azure September 29th, 2008 6:40 AM

Ok...I missed a lot during the night....
 
The Federal Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008
(aka "The $700 Billion Golden Parachute for Wall.St)

http://www.financialstandard.com.au/news/view/24130/

Expected to pass today in Congress...the key points are:

  • Phased introduction of funding, with US$250 billion made available immediately to the US Treasury for purchase of problem assets. This amount could be increased to US$350 billion at the President's request.
  • A limit of US$700 billion is set for all purchases and allows Congress to veto purchases above the limit.
  • US taxpayers are given ownership interest in companies that take advantage of the bailout package.
  • Profits from the sale of Government-owned assets, if any, will be used to retire the US federal debt and a portion set aside for a federal housing authority.
  • The US Treasury secretary will coordinate with foreign financial authorities and central banks about establishing similar rescue programs.
  • Limits excessive compensation and bonuses for executives at companies that sell mortgage assets to the Treasury. Companies that participate in the plan will be prohibited from offering ‘golden parachutes' to their executives.
  • A Board composed of the Federal Reserve Chairman, the Treasury Secretary and the Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Director of the Federal Home Finance Agency and the Housing and Urban Development Secretary, will oversee and monitor the implementation and progress of the bailout plan.
Thoughts???

Quote:

Originally Posted by supertails (Post 3983012)
Theirs no just thing as a war hero. The first casualty of war is the truth. We don't go to war unless were tricked and you know what Nam wasn't met to be won it was met to go the distance. Wars are corporate lies and 911 was the biggest. No one benefited from it but the leaders in our country. It's ashame the Land of the Free became the Land of the Enslaved. I'd watch our flag burn for an hour before I saloot it again and guess what I was born and bread here. The American Dream is over, The American Nightmare as only just begun.

I can see your pessimistic sentiments but that is why you try to improve it through reform NOT revolution...

Quote:

Originally Posted by supertails (Post 3983729)
I'm a part of the Solution not the problem. It's people like me they fear. Bush and all of his little men are the only ones to benefit and I'll be moving to Canada but when everyone else sees what I see, I'll come down and fight with ya. I will love to instill a new government, free from the evil businesses. I'm guessing you never heard of War Corporatism. Let me tell you, 911 and all the wars we've been in has War Corporatism written all over them and I feel for those men too. They died to fight fictional enemies. 911 was a lie that killed over 3000 people, only leading to the deaths of millions of other people just because The Bush Family and all the other businesses didn't feel they had enough money. I hate this country and I'd love to see it as our forefathers made it but because of what happened in 1913 it'll never be the same. In 1913 was the year The USA became owned by the Banks and all the Wars since was to put millions of dollars into their wallets. We are no longer the country of free people but the country of the rich and the powerful. I am not proud to be an American because how can one be proud to kill for money. I know Bush and his men are. Bush is Hitler and his men and the businesses that caused this fake war are EVIL, EVIL men. Bush and his men are EVIL because they caused 911 and killed millions just for money. FDR was the same and all the other businesses kill every single day just to make money.

Yes to some extent I agree to war as being a profiteering racket. But when FDR is dragged into this I'll have to disagree

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3983158)
That is absolutely sickening. SICKENING! It's you kind of people that should be ashamed to call yourself an American.

No such thing as a war hero? Have you no respect for the brave men and women who fight for our safety EVERY SINGLE DAY? Every single one of our soldiers who is fighting or has fought in any war that the US has been involved in is a hero in my opinion. It takes a special kind of person to lay their life on the line, putting the greater good of their country above themselves. I can't even fathom the INCREDIBLE amount of ignorance that must be inside that mind of yours for you to disrespect millions and millions of veterans that have fought and died to protect the very freedoms that you enjoy EVERY SINGLE DAY? HAVE YOU NO RESPECT? HAVE YOU NO THANKFULNESS? Are you not aware that if not for the US military, we would not even be alive right now? You think that wars are waged for corporate and government gain? You are so wrong, I can't even believe that I am typing this right now. You think that 9/11 and the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention every other war in modern US history, are/were fought so that Bush and the "evil" big business corporations can benefit? You and your twisted mind think that America is broken and twisted and a former shadow of the greatness that it once was?

I have one message for you and people that share your views: Leave. Get out of here. I for one am ashamed that we live in a country where our very own citizens think that our own government and military are scum. Move to Canada. Move to Europe. Move to freakin Antarctica for all I care. If America has become "The land of the Enslaved" how can you bear to live, benefit, and enjoy the freedom that you and your kind take for granted? You make me sick.

And at least use proper grammar when sharing your disgusting and vile opinions. I'm fairly sure "saloot" isn't a word, and "born and bread" is also pretty confusing.

I'll think about moving to Canada...;)

Gunn September 29th, 2008 10:34 AM

Um, anyways, the bailout failed. Anyone else not surprised?

Aurafire September 29th, 2008 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtommy1 (Post 3984341)
I'll think about moving to Canada...;)

But not because you hate America and think 9/11 was a hoax (I hope =P)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disintegration (Post 3984894)
Um, anyways, the bailout failed. Anyone else not surprised?

Not really, the bill was rushed and had too many flaws. I'm no economist, so I really don't know what's the best way to deal with a problem like this.

Gunn September 29th, 2008 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3984951)
I'm no economist, so I really don't know what's the best way to deal with a problem like this.

One way to not handle it is by holding American tax payers liable for large corporation mistakes. What they should really do with that money is give it away in checks to people whose homes are heading towards foreclosure, those who really need the money, not to bail out those who are putting the economy down. I was against it the entire time. If it were done, I would have concluded the biggest robbery in history by the US government.

Netto Azure September 29th, 2008 12:26 PM

Eh....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Disintegration (Post 3984894)
Um, anyways, the bailout failed. Anyone else not surprised?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122270285663785991.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_mostpop

I'm surprised...I totally expected the lobbyists to get this to pass...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3984951)
Not really, the bill was rushed and had too many flaws. I'm no economist, so I really don't know what's the best way to deal with a problem like this.

I agree with you Aura..."Coincidentally" just like the 90+ Liberal Democrats and 100+ Conservative Republicans did this Morning...=P Rarely can you see such "Bi-Partisanship" in the opposite ends of the political spectrum in Congress...Hehhh =D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disintegration (Post 3985000)
One way to not handle it is by holding American tax payers liable for large corporation mistakes. What they should really do with that money is give it away in checks to people whose homes are heading towards foreclosure, those who really need the money, not to bail out those who are putting the economy down. I was against it the entire time. If it were done, I would have concluded the biggest robbery in history by the US government.

You've seen what I've called it: "The $700 Billion Golden Parachute for Wall.St" and as I've said in the other thread Congress CAN create a much better Bill than this Corporate welfare/handout to Wall St. "Let the markets fix themselves" and "free-enterprise" and what-not...:P

Melody September 29th, 2008 4:58 PM

It would seem that a fair number of people oppose the bill which has been proposed to save our economy. I've even heard people go as far as calling the bill "Unconstitutional and a step toward Socialism". It is not too drastic of a measure in my opinion, however I do wish that the government had given the bill more though than they have. I can only hope that if the bill does indeed pass that it does not put the nation in a bigger bind later...We do not want nor need another Great Depression.

Gunn September 29th, 2008 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pachy (Post 3986247)
We do not want nor need another Great Depression.

That's only an exaggeration; the economy is more likely to go into a recession. I believe that Congress can formulate a better solution, but like Aurasphere mentioned, it was rushed, seeing that time is a factor here. I bet it would help Congress even more if politics weren't evolved.

Red1530 September 29th, 2008 6:01 PM

I came accross a YouTube video that explains how the Community Reinvestment Act help cause this mess. However it fails to mentions about the repeal of the Glass-Stegall Act which could of helped, in my opinion, prevent the current crises. This article, dated September 24, 2007, explans why we are in big trouble.

Netto Azure September 29th, 2008 6:06 PM

Heh...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Disintegration (Post 3986394)
That's only an exaggeration; the economy is more likely to go into a recession. I believe that Congress can formulate a better solution, but like Aurasphere mentioned, it was rushed, seeing that time is a factor here. I bet it would help Congress even more if politics weren't evolved.

Hey its Gunn....Your username misled me. But yes Politics (Especially presidential) was certainly injected into this along with constituent discontent on the bill...The act was essentially Political suicide if voted for....So they'll try again...something will have to pass...yet it's going to be a severe recession but not a "Great Depression" (seriously I don't expect soup kitchens to pop up everywhere) since the Global Economy would never allow it....Many banks around the world were "Nationalized"...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7643340.stm

Also a thought...Since mainstream media is shunned by conservatives by calling it "Liberal Media" and Progressives calling it "Corporate Media", does that mean that Mainstream media is Centrist? =P I'm not being serious, just a thought...

Gunn September 30th, 2008 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtommy1 (Post 3986553)
Hey its Gunn....Your username misled me.

Mmmm, yes. Name change, ftw.

Quote:

But yes Politics (Especially presidential) was certainly injected into this along with constituent discontent on the bill...The act was essentially Political suicide if voted for....So they'll try again...something will have to pass...yet it's going to be a severe recession but not a "Great Depression" (seriously I don't expect soup kitchens to pop up everywhere) since the Global Economy would never allow it....Many banks around the world were "Nationalized"...
Exactly, but it's really not going to help if everyone keeps pointing fingers at each other (or continue to blame Rep. Nancy Pelosi for bailout failure).

Mooshykris September 30th, 2008 10:34 AM

*sigh* Can't we all just stop bashing eachother on everything?

I a quite offended on the way both candidates are being treated here.

I am a supporter of McCain, but I'm not disrespecting Obama either, and finding every thing I can to insult him.


Now, I would like to ask for a GOOD description on what you feel on some of their policies and beliefs, not just a biased flamewar.

My first issue I'd like to give my opinion on in depth:

Healthcare:

Alright, I'm mentioning this because after catching up on 5-6 more pages, this issue is bothering me now.

Many people are saying that it will be good, some say it will be bad. Well, why is it one of those two?


My opinion is that it is not a good thing. Overall, the taxing is the worst part. Alright, some people say higher taxes are the cost of this system. Okay, but one thing few answer,is what about the Middle Class like us?

My family only makes $50,000 a year, we have enough trouble holding together already. Higher taxes could make things even worse for us!

Also, the only question I have on this is: What about the people who are sitting on welfare, or such? Will we be taxing them too? Or is my family and the rest of the country stuck paying for them?


Mooshykris

Netto Azure September 30th, 2008 10:40 AM

Economy....
 
Is it just me or does anybody else feel their just dreaming this historic event and election cycle...

Just as the economy took over the US Presidential/Congressional campaigns, it has taken over this thread...

I was thinking that since most average Americans have been comparing the past month to the Great Depression, does that mean that the Democrats will be swept into power again?

A timeline on what the heck happened according to BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7521250.stm

Why did the Bail-out fail (BBC):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7643199.stm

-Simple answer: The American People thought it was A Wall.St giveaway (Both the Left and the Right hated it...rare...)

BBC's Answer:
They (Wall.St) are perceived as greedy, incompetent fat cats who have created this crisis themselves and who are now being allowed to pick the pockets of American voters to fix it.
My AP Biology teacher actually used that word "fat cats" to describe why we got into this mess...


American voters simply have not seen this as a crisis that affects their real lives on Main Street - it is seen as a welfare scheme for the humbled plutocrats of Wall Street.
If the problems deepen and people suddenly see unemployment rising because businesses cannot get money from the banks to pay their bills and honour their payrolls, then that sentiment might change.
Maybe so if things go worse, people might accept anything just like how we accepted the "Alphabet Soup" of Government agencies during the Great Depression (SS FTW!)

How would financial "Armageddon" look like?:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7631281.stm

Not exactly the "Great Depression" everyone is saying...

OH Healthcare...eh touchy subject for me so I'll answer that when I get around to it...sorry....

Lusankya October 1st, 2008 12:48 PM

Call me ignorant, maybe, but I don't see why people don't support the bail-out. If the financial "crisis", as it's being called, continues to advance, then it is very much going to affect the middle-class.

Netto Azure October 1st, 2008 12:50 PM

Also...
 
Also Health-care: During the debate McCain mentioned something about a bout a $5000 tax-credit...Wonder how that would work since it's still the taxpayer and employers who will burden the cost....




Bill Clinton: Economic Crisis Means Veep Choice Is More Important

By Greg Sargent - October 1, 2008, 2:08PM
Bill Clinton -- doing some powerful campaigning in Florida for the first time on Obama's behalf today -- laid out an interesting argument against McCain-Palin, claiming that the economy will consume so much of the new president's attention that the Veep will be forced to play a bigger role on the world stage...

From Bill's comments...

"Senator Obama has spoken a lot about how we oughta relate to the world, and yes, he'll get out and travel some in the first year, we should want him to do it. But he is going to have to be really focused on fixing this economy. That means that role of the Vice President in repairing quickly our relations with the rest of the world will be relatively more important in the first two years of the next presidency. "And I am just telling you, you can talk to me or anybody else at any time in Washington, and they will tell you there is nobody, nobody in the entire United States senate that understands the political, the economic, and the security challenges and opportunities of the world better than Joe Biden does. He is a superb choice."

Impeccably timed by the Master, raising the stakes for the Veep choice right on the eve of the Veep debate.

Wow...way to go Bill...(By posting this I'm incurring the Republican's wrath =P)

Aurafire October 1st, 2008 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netto Azure (Post 3992162)
Also Health-care: During the debate McCain mentioned something about a bout a $5000 tax-credit...Wonder how that would work since it's still the taxpayer and employers who will burden the cost....




Bill Clinton: Economic Crisis Means Veep Choice Is More Important

By Greg Sargent - October 1, 2008, 2:08PM
Bill Clinton -- doing some powerful campaigning in Florida for the first time on Obama's behalf today -- laid out an interesting argument against McCain-Palin, claiming that the economy will consume so much of the new president's attention that the Veep will be forced to play a bigger role on the world stage...

From Bill's comments...

"Senator Obama has spoken a lot about how we oughta relate to the world, and yes, he'll get out and travel some in the first year, we should want him to do it. But he is going to have to be really focused on fixing this economy. That means that role of the Vice President in repairing quickly our relations with the rest of the world will be relatively more important in the first two years of the next presidency. "And I am just telling you, you can talk to me or anybody else at any time in Washington, and they will tell you there is nobody, nobody in the entire United States senate that understands the political, the economic, and the security challenges and opportunities of the world better than Joe Biden does. He is a superb choice."

Impeccably timed by the Master, raising the stakes for the Veep choice right on the eve of the Veep debate.

Wow...way to go Bill...(By posting this I'm incurring the Republican's wrath =P)

How very clever, Bill. What a perfect thing to say right before the VP debate tomorrow! =P

He's a sneaky one....

Red1530 October 1st, 2008 2:04 PM

Today the Senate is going to take up the bailout proposal. They ticked it to include raising FDIC coverage to $250,000 and passing a temporary fix for the AMT.

suicidesal October 1st, 2008 2:07 PM

I'm in Canada so I cannot vote in the US election but I would totally vote Obama.
As for the upcoming Canadian election, I am voting NDP all the way.

Red1530 October 1st, 2008 6:24 PM

The Senate in a 74-25 vote, passes the bailout bill. The Senate hopes with their changes that the House will pass their version on Friday.

wolf October 1st, 2008 6:27 PM

McCain all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!

Macabre October 2nd, 2008 6:47 AM

Something about the bailout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMFt7tRq-Ps

... and there is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntEE9Zy-qQQ

I wouldn't be surprised if America voted a republican to lead the country again. They did the same when they voted Bush twice for presidency. History repeats itself as always; people just don't learn.

I'm not American but I would definetly vote for Obama.

Mooshykris October 2nd, 2008 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macabre (Post 3994069)
I wouldn't be surprised if America voted a republican to lead the country again. They did the same when they voted Bush twice for presidency. History repeats itself as always; people just don't learn.

I'm not American but I would definetly vote for Obama.

Actually, I have to say one thing, it was 2 terms for a Republican, after 2 terms for a Democrat.

There's not anything about "people not learning" here, it's just how the cycle goes. We're always bound to get one or the other eventually.


One major cycle point: At some point people will get tired of Republicans, and vote Democrat. Then, after enough time, they will be sick of Democrats, and vote Republican. That's what keeps a balance in the system :P


Mooshykris

Lusankya October 2nd, 2008 12:58 PM

Actually, in the past 50 years, there have only been 2 Democrat presidents.

Although, chances are Obama's going to win this time, bringing that number up to 3. Because basically, whenever there's an economic crisis, people turn to the Democrats. Free markets is one the foundation of Republicans, meaning that they don't want to take steps to do anything about a sinking economy.

Allstories October 2nd, 2008 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooshykris (Post 3988141)
Many people are saying that it will be good, some say it will be bad. Well, why is it one of those two?

You're referring to Universal Health Care, right? Basically, in the US, we pay for a health care system that:
  • Costs way, way more than health care in any other country, even considering taxes,
  • Is practically the same in terms of service as any other developed country,
  • A staggering percentage of people can't even afford,
  • Still leaves us with an average life expectancy lower than that of many third-world countries,
  • People could still pay for if they wanted to even if a universal alternative were implemented.

Mooshykris October 2nd, 2008 2:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusankya (Post 3994757)
Actually, in the past 50 years, there have only been 2 Democrat presidents.

In the past 50 years, we've had 4 Democrats, and 5 Republicans.

Kennedy - Democrat
Johnson - Democrat
Nixon - Republican
Ford - Republican
Carter - Democrat
Regan - Republican
Bush - Republican
Clinton - Democrat
Bush - Republican


Mooshykris

Netto Azure October 2nd, 2008 4:31 PM

Yup...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooshykris (Post 3994565)
Actually, I have to say one thing, it was 2 terms for a Republican, after 2 terms for a Democrat.

There's not anything about "people not learning" here, it's just how the cycle goes. We're always bound to get one or the other eventually.


One major cycle point: At some point people will get tired of Republicans, and vote Democrat. Then, after enough time, they will be sick of Democrats, and vote Republican. That's what keeps a balance in the system :P


Mooshykris

Your totally correct...That's what my Algebra 2 teacher said...Americans don't want the government to "intrude" their private lives (But eh...with the PATRIOT Act that pretty much assured...) So Americans Vote for opposite parties in Congress and the White House (Usually) (White House: Republican - Congress: Democrat)...

So I'll go watch the VP debates and comment tomorrow...Thanks!

-Netto

Red1530 October 3rd, 2008 6:31 AM

I watched the Vice-Presidential debate last night and was glad the Gov. Palin was able to hold her own against Sen. Biden.

Netto Azure October 3rd, 2008 6:38 AM

Yes...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Red1530 (Post 3997160)
I watched the Vice-Presidential debate last night and was glad the Gov. Palin was able to hold her own against Sen. Biden.

It went great...NOBODY made gaffs. Both stucked to their campaign points and Palin held her own...As I said to Aurasphere: (Yes a Progressive and Conservative talking. Weird eh?) I have to admit, I'm impressed. Both really appealed to me...But Palin's too conservative in her position for my tastes.

I'll comment more later...School's about to start... =D

Aurafire October 3rd, 2008 7:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netto Azure (Post 3997185)
It went great...NOBODY made gaffs. Both stucked to their campaign points and Palin held her own...As I said to Aurasphere: (Yes a Progressive and Conservative talking. Weird eh?) I have to admit, I'm impressed. Both really appealed to me...But Palin's too conservative in her position for my tastes.

I'll comment more later...School's about to start... =D

I thought Sarah Palin was very well spoken and knowledgeable on the issues. She definitely held her own. Hopefully this will make the conservative base more confident in their choice.

I still need to watch the whole thing...I missed the first half >.<

Volkner's Apprentice October 3rd, 2008 7:35 AM

The only things in particular I can pick out is that Biden referenced a lot of mainstream politicians that the good majority of Americans aren't going to know, really (I'll find some examples later) and that Sarah was perhaps a little soft in her representation. She did, however, pick up the pace a bit and brought the swing back on Biden by telling the audience how he was referencing himself as opposed to Obama's viewpoints, just as the commentator said afterward "as if he was the one running for office." I actually have more respect for Biden based on what he answered to when asked "If this was you running for office, how do you differ from Obama". He seemed kind of over the edge when he was nominated and he frightened me a little bit (and I suppose he is normally colorful and loud when it comes to his views, and that's definitely a good thing, seems like that small room setting with just him, Sarah and the camera kind of quelled him.) I hope that made sense XD.

Anyway, Sarah definitely held her own there without prodding Joe too much, only giving back what he gave her and yeah, it definitely proved she can debate with the rest of them. She could probably lay off the "dog-gone-it, Joe"'s and other Alaskaness (I did just make that word up :P) but that's just how she is and I think it's funny.

Gunn October 3rd, 2008 9:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macabre (Post 3994069)
They did the same when they voted Bush twice for presidency.

They didn't.

Anyway, about the debate, was it me, or did Gov. Palin wink a couple times?

Volkner's Apprentice October 3rd, 2008 9:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disintegration (Post 3997438)
They didn't.

Anyway, about the debate, was it me, or did Gov. Palin wink a couple times?

Hahaha, she totally did, I think on some occasions to members of the audience like her family, but some were obviously addressed to the camera. And why not? She's a woman and she's close to the White House, I think that's something to be proud of. That may or may not be related at all to winking but...lol

Lusankya October 3rd, 2008 10:19 AM

The debate was a good show, I only watched part of it, but both candidates did fairly well, no major blunders or anything. While I don't think it'll convince many swing voters for one side or another, it probably helps cement the faith of the already faithful.

Netto Azure October 3rd, 2008 12:48 PM

Um...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusankya (Post 3997559)
The debate was a good show, I only watched part of it, but both candidates did fairly well, no major blunders or anything. While I don't think it'll convince many swing voters for one side or another, it probably helps cement the faith of the already faithful.

That is true... I'm cemented to Obama now... But those just tuning in will be swayed either way...

Lusankya October 3rd, 2008 1:04 PM

I don't know, I'm still undecided either way, but neither canditate seemed better than the other to me. Maybe experience really doesn't mean all that much.

Anyways, I think it's interesting how so many more people who voted in this thread are pro-Obama.

Comic Tragedy October 3rd, 2008 1:19 PM

I could go either way right now (despite the fact I can't vote). I have both extremist democrats, and republicans within my family. It really gets to me sometimes :<

I still can't get over the fact Governor Palin winked at the camera during the debate though xD

Volkner's Apprentice October 3rd, 2008 1:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusankya (Post 3997995)
I don't know, I'm still undecided either way, but neither canditate seemed better than the other to me. Maybe experience really doesn't mean all that much.

Anyways, I think it's interesting how so many more people who voted in this thread are pro-Obama.

I think that kind of reflects the personalities you get in people that actually go on forums related to things they like to do. I don't really understand the direct correlation between them, but maybe I just can't explain it all that well. =/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comic Tragedy (Post 3998068)
I could go either way right now (despite the fact I can't vote). I have both extremist democrats, and republicans within my family. It really gets to me sometimes :<

I still can't get over the fact Governor Palin winked at the camera during the debate though xD

Not trying to persuade you at all, but I've also been around extremists of both sides (not in my family, but friends/teachers, etc.). Don't be persuaded by the extremists. Take the issues one at a time and scroll through reports on them (preferably unbiased) to decide where you definitely stand on the political spectrum. Go with your beliefs, and if your family has something to say about them, you can take their thoughts into consideration. It can be alright to swing one way, but still have family values.

Akio123 October 3rd, 2008 5:45 PM

Maybe it's just me, but doesn't this make McCain a bit of a hypocrite (maybe not the right word) for choosing someone who is a newcomer in politics? Granted as Palin said last night, she has some experience, but a VP is president of the senate. Though all they do is cast a tie breaking vote, she never served on the senate. I mean it isn't really a simple job. Honestly a pre-requisite should be that the VP you choose should have served on the senate. I mean McCain has been going on an on about expreince but he is choosing someone who could potentially be president (in the extreme case of his death) who doesn't really know the workings of the senate.

Rant Aside...

As for last night, Palin seemed like she was just dancing aroudn the questions. I mean yeah she answered, but unlike Bidden, she didn't really give a straightforward answer. I guess it's clear I'm a democrat XD

Lusankya October 3rd, 2008 6:19 PM

Don't think so, Palin did fairly well answering the questions, especially for someone as inexperienced as she is. Sure, she did a little bit of dodging, but it's not really more than what one expects in politics.

Oh, also, VPs don't do anything that's really that important, anyways. The main thing about selecting VPs is in case if the President dies. Which, considering McCain's age, is quite high. If McCain weren't as old as he was, I think people would be a lot less touchy about Palin.

Akio123 October 4th, 2008 12:38 PM

I can agree with that. It's just she seemed (at least to me) to dodge the questions and went just talked about the energy plan.

Well that makes sense though, someone that inexperienced (meaning again never even served on the senate) shouldn't really have that high of a chance.

Aurafire October 4th, 2008 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akio123 (Post 4002266)
I can agree with that. It's just she seemed (at least to me) to dodge the questions and went just talked about the energy plan.

Well that makes sense though, someone that inexperienced (meaning again never even served on the senate) shouldn't really have that high of a chance.

I can respect your opinion on that, but how can you turn that around and say that Obama is more qualified than Palin? In some respects, being a governor is just as much work as being in the Senate. And everyone seems to forget that it's McCain, not Palin, who's running for president. This is why I don't argue the experience factor between Palin and Obama, becaise no one can win. But McCain and Obama is a whole other story...I happen to think that the experience argument has cancelled itself out, and we should just focus on the issues.

Lusankya October 4th, 2008 2:33 PM

Obama's actually been a politician much longer than Palin, especially if you don't count her time as the mayor of a town with 5,000 people. Actually, I think Governors are more suited to being Presidents/Vice Presidents, because Governors actually do governing, while Senators just sit around reading and voting on bills.

Netto Azure October 4th, 2008 3:21 PM

FEESA of 2008 Passes....
 
"The American People fought the lobbyists and the Lobbyists won..."

As I said on Monday I was surprised that the bill didn't pass...But eh...as it turns out we were just prolonging the inevitable...The Lobbyists called in everyone and with the bussiness community was able to threatened Congress into passing the $700 Billion Bail-out (Now $850 Billion 'cuz of all the "Sweeteners" added in to entice the Republicans and Democrats into passing it....)

The biggest heist of Wall.St towards the American People....

So Me, Aura, Red and every single American taxpayer are now the "Proud" owners of $700 Billion worth of crap... Yeah you heard me the "Proud" owners of $700 Billion worth of BS...

What the bail-out boils down to:
http://images.salon.com/comics/tomo/2008/09/23/tomo/story.jpg
With a gun pointed at it's head by Wall St. and Lobbyists, Congress was forced to pass a Bill as a $700 Billion "Band-aid" to the Stinking corpse of the financial markets.

I understand that if Congress didn't do anything it would be a "catastrophy/apocalypse now" But Congress could have done way better than giving Sec. of Tresury Henry Paulson $700 Billion to throw around.

But hey that subtle language giving Paulson authority to use the money to get "stocks" from the Banks (Sombody was smart for doing this) instead of giving them $700 Billion and taking the "Toxic Assets" makes me think we could work with this act...

Lusankya October 4th, 2008 3:46 PM

I heard on the radio that we would get most of the money back eventually. =/ I sure hope so, or the national debt just jumped again.

Akio123 October 4th, 2008 4:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 4002479)
I can respect your opinion on that, but how can you turn that around and say that Obama is more qualified than Palin? In some respects, being a governor is just as much work as being in the Senate. And everyone seems to forget that it's McCain, not Palin, who's running for president. This is why I don't argue the experience factor between Palin and Obama, becaise no one can win. But McCain and Obama is a whole other story...I happen to think that the experience argument has cancelled itself out, and we should just focus on the issues.

Oh I understand I completely agree with you in that respect that Obama is THAT much more quailified. As for McCain people forget because it seemed like his campaign became a bigger thing when she was on the ticket as VP. And it's the fact that McCain went on an on about expereince and then chose someone at the experience level, if not less, then that of Obama. Considering also that again she isn't my favorite person...yeah.

To be honest I just want a president that will do something about the bailout. I mean I am happy about it succeeding in the end (or did it officially fail). With us about to hit a recession, I just want to know what's going to happen with the economy.

pong08 October 4th, 2008 5:12 PM

I just love how at the debate how Sarah Palin was using the words such as "Doggone" and "Straight Up" in the debate. I got the feeling that she was trying to appeal to young voters. Also, I just love how what she said in the Katie Couric interview that she was for Women's rights, but doesn't support abortion? LMAO

Akio123 October 4th, 2008 5:26 PM

I could make a joke about her not supporting abortion, not only is it fairly obvious, I may get banned. XD

And yeah she is trying to appeal to younger voters, I don't think many American Youth really could relate to McCain. Granted there are the informed voters, but there are many people who judge candidates solely on appearance. I mean the man doesn't even really know how to use a computer apparently.

Lusankya October 4th, 2008 6:00 PM

That's pretty much normal for a 70-year old. My grandparents can barely even use a cell phone.

Akio123 October 4th, 2008 7:47 PM

Exactly, that's I think another reason that he picked Palin. Rather than use his daughter, I guess he wants a parents who can relate to the kids.
Edit: He's 72 XD.

Professor Pine October 5th, 2008 11:48 AM

Obama has the best policies by far...

Mccain is Bush II


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