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-   -   US Elections 2008: Debate the Issues (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=152191)

supertails September 29th, 2008 4:28 AM

I'll do that. Not only do I have enough of a claim, I have proof. We only punish the poor and weak now. Sure there were some celebes but the businesses and puallitions are above the law. I'm going to leave this alone now and going to the OC.

Netto Azure September 29th, 2008 6:40 AM

Ok...I missed a lot during the night....
 
The Federal Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008
(aka "The $700 Billion Golden Parachute for Wall.St)

http://www.financialstandard.com.au/news/view/24130/

Expected to pass today in Congress...the key points are:

  • Phased introduction of funding, with US$250 billion made available immediately to the US Treasury for purchase of problem assets. This amount could be increased to US$350 billion at the President's request.
  • A limit of US$700 billion is set for all purchases and allows Congress to veto purchases above the limit.
  • US taxpayers are given ownership interest in companies that take advantage of the bailout package.
  • Profits from the sale of Government-owned assets, if any, will be used to retire the US federal debt and a portion set aside for a federal housing authority.
  • The US Treasury secretary will coordinate with foreign financial authorities and central banks about establishing similar rescue programs.
  • Limits excessive compensation and bonuses for executives at companies that sell mortgage assets to the Treasury. Companies that participate in the plan will be prohibited from offering ‘golden parachutes' to their executives.
  • A Board composed of the Federal Reserve Chairman, the Treasury Secretary and the Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Director of the Federal Home Finance Agency and the Housing and Urban Development Secretary, will oversee and monitor the implementation and progress of the bailout plan.
Thoughts???

Quote:

Originally Posted by supertails (Post 3983012)
Theirs no just thing as a war hero. The first casualty of war is the truth. We don't go to war unless were tricked and you know what Nam wasn't met to be won it was met to go the distance. Wars are corporate lies and 911 was the biggest. No one benefited from it but the leaders in our country. It's ashame the Land of the Free became the Land of the Enslaved. I'd watch our flag burn for an hour before I saloot it again and guess what I was born and bread here. The American Dream is over, The American Nightmare as only just begun.

I can see your pessimistic sentiments but that is why you try to improve it through reform NOT revolution...

Quote:

Originally Posted by supertails (Post 3983729)
I'm a part of the Solution not the problem. It's people like me they fear. Bush and all of his little men are the only ones to benefit and I'll be moving to Canada but when everyone else sees what I see, I'll come down and fight with ya. I will love to instill a new government, free from the evil businesses. I'm guessing you never heard of War Corporatism. Let me tell you, 911 and all the wars we've been in has War Corporatism written all over them and I feel for those men too. They died to fight fictional enemies. 911 was a lie that killed over 3000 people, only leading to the deaths of millions of other people just because The Bush Family and all the other businesses didn't feel they had enough money. I hate this country and I'd love to see it as our forefathers made it but because of what happened in 1913 it'll never be the same. In 1913 was the year The USA became owned by the Banks and all the Wars since was to put millions of dollars into their wallets. We are no longer the country of free people but the country of the rich and the powerful. I am not proud to be an American because how can one be proud to kill for money. I know Bush and his men are. Bush is Hitler and his men and the businesses that caused this fake war are EVIL, EVIL men. Bush and his men are EVIL because they caused 911 and killed millions just for money. FDR was the same and all the other businesses kill every single day just to make money.

Yes to some extent I agree to war as being a profiteering racket. But when FDR is dragged into this I'll have to disagree

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3983158)
That is absolutely sickening. SICKENING! It's you kind of people that should be ashamed to call yourself an American.

No such thing as a war hero? Have you no respect for the brave men and women who fight for our safety EVERY SINGLE DAY? Every single one of our soldiers who is fighting or has fought in any war that the US has been involved in is a hero in my opinion. It takes a special kind of person to lay their life on the line, putting the greater good of their country above themselves. I can't even fathom the INCREDIBLE amount of ignorance that must be inside that mind of yours for you to disrespect millions and millions of veterans that have fought and died to protect the very freedoms that you enjoy EVERY SINGLE DAY? HAVE YOU NO RESPECT? HAVE YOU NO THANKFULNESS? Are you not aware that if not for the US military, we would not even be alive right now? You think that wars are waged for corporate and government gain? You are so wrong, I can't even believe that I am typing this right now. You think that 9/11 and the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention every other war in modern US history, are/were fought so that Bush and the "evil" big business corporations can benefit? You and your twisted mind think that America is broken and twisted and a former shadow of the greatness that it once was?

I have one message for you and people that share your views: Leave. Get out of here. I for one am ashamed that we live in a country where our very own citizens think that our own government and military are scum. Move to Canada. Move to Europe. Move to freakin Antarctica for all I care. If America has become "The land of the Enslaved" how can you bear to live, benefit, and enjoy the freedom that you and your kind take for granted? You make me sick.

And at least use proper grammar when sharing your disgusting and vile opinions. I'm fairly sure "saloot" isn't a word, and "born and bread" is also pretty confusing.

I'll think about moving to Canada...;)

Gunn September 29th, 2008 10:34 AM

Um, anyways, the bailout failed. Anyone else not surprised?

Aurafire September 29th, 2008 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtommy1 (Post 3984341)
I'll think about moving to Canada...;)

But not because you hate America and think 9/11 was a hoax (I hope =P)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disintegration (Post 3984894)
Um, anyways, the bailout failed. Anyone else not surprised?

Not really, the bill was rushed and had too many flaws. I'm no economist, so I really don't know what's the best way to deal with a problem like this.

Gunn September 29th, 2008 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3984951)
I'm no economist, so I really don't know what's the best way to deal with a problem like this.

One way to not handle it is by holding American tax payers liable for large corporation mistakes. What they should really do with that money is give it away in checks to people whose homes are heading towards foreclosure, those who really need the money, not to bail out those who are putting the economy down. I was against it the entire time. If it were done, I would have concluded the biggest robbery in history by the US government.

Netto Azure September 29th, 2008 12:26 PM

Eh....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Disintegration (Post 3984894)
Um, anyways, the bailout failed. Anyone else not surprised?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122270285663785991.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_mostpop

I'm surprised...I totally expected the lobbyists to get this to pass...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurasphere (Post 3984951)
Not really, the bill was rushed and had too many flaws. I'm no economist, so I really don't know what's the best way to deal with a problem like this.

I agree with you Aura..."Coincidentally" just like the 90+ Liberal Democrats and 100+ Conservative Republicans did this Morning...=P Rarely can you see such "Bi-Partisanship" in the opposite ends of the political spectrum in Congress...Hehhh =D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disintegration (Post 3985000)
One way to not handle it is by holding American tax payers liable for large corporation mistakes. What they should really do with that money is give it away in checks to people whose homes are heading towards foreclosure, those who really need the money, not to bail out those who are putting the economy down. I was against it the entire time. If it were done, I would have concluded the biggest robbery in history by the US government.

You've seen what I've called it: "The $700 Billion Golden Parachute for Wall.St" and as I've said in the other thread Congress CAN create a much better Bill than this Corporate welfare/handout to Wall St. "Let the markets fix themselves" and "free-enterprise" and what-not...:P

Melody September 29th, 2008 4:58 PM

It would seem that a fair number of people oppose the bill which has been proposed to save our economy. I've even heard people go as far as calling the bill "Unconstitutional and a step toward Socialism". It is not too drastic of a measure in my opinion, however I do wish that the government had given the bill more though than they have. I can only hope that if the bill does indeed pass that it does not put the nation in a bigger bind later...We do not want nor need another Great Depression.

Gunn September 29th, 2008 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pachy (Post 3986247)
We do not want nor need another Great Depression.

That's only an exaggeration; the economy is more likely to go into a recession. I believe that Congress can formulate a better solution, but like Aurasphere mentioned, it was rushed, seeing that time is a factor here. I bet it would help Congress even more if politics weren't evolved.

Red1530 September 29th, 2008 6:01 PM

I came accross a YouTube video that explains how the Community Reinvestment Act help cause this mess. However it fails to mentions about the repeal of the Glass-Stegall Act which could of helped, in my opinion, prevent the current crises. This article, dated September 24, 2007, explans why we are in big trouble.

Netto Azure September 29th, 2008 6:06 PM

Heh...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Disintegration (Post 3986394)
That's only an exaggeration; the economy is more likely to go into a recession. I believe that Congress can formulate a better solution, but like Aurasphere mentioned, it was rushed, seeing that time is a factor here. I bet it would help Congress even more if politics weren't evolved.

Hey its Gunn....Your username misled me. But yes Politics (Especially presidential) was certainly injected into this along with constituent discontent on the bill...The act was essentially Political suicide if voted for....So they'll try again...something will have to pass...yet it's going to be a severe recession but not a "Great Depression" (seriously I don't expect soup kitchens to pop up everywhere) since the Global Economy would never allow it....Many banks around the world were "Nationalized"...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7643340.stm

Also a thought...Since mainstream media is shunned by conservatives by calling it "Liberal Media" and Progressives calling it "Corporate Media", does that mean that Mainstream media is Centrist? =P I'm not being serious, just a thought...

Gunn September 30th, 2008 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtommy1 (Post 3986553)
Hey its Gunn....Your username misled me.

Mmmm, yes. Name change, ftw.

Quote:

But yes Politics (Especially presidential) was certainly injected into this along with constituent discontent on the bill...The act was essentially Political suicide if voted for....So they'll try again...something will have to pass...yet it's going to be a severe recession but not a "Great Depression" (seriously I don't expect soup kitchens to pop up everywhere) since the Global Economy would never allow it....Many banks around the world were "Nationalized"...
Exactly, but it's really not going to help if everyone keeps pointing fingers at each other (or continue to blame Rep. Nancy Pelosi for bailout failure).

Mooshykris September 30th, 2008 10:34 AM

*sigh* Can't we all just stop bashing eachother on everything?

I a quite offended on the way both candidates are being treated here.

I am a supporter of McCain, but I'm not disrespecting Obama either, and finding every thing I can to insult him.


Now, I would like to ask for a GOOD description on what you feel on some of their policies and beliefs, not just a biased flamewar.

My first issue I'd like to give my opinion on in depth:

Healthcare:

Alright, I'm mentioning this because after catching up on 5-6 more pages, this issue is bothering me now.

Many people are saying that it will be good, some say it will be bad. Well, why is it one of those two?


My opinion is that it is not a good thing. Overall, the taxing is the worst part. Alright, some people say higher taxes are the cost of this system. Okay, but one thing few answer,is what about the Middle Class like us?

My family only makes $50,000 a year, we have enough trouble holding together already. Higher taxes could make things even worse for us!

Also, the only question I have on this is: What about the people who are sitting on welfare, or such? Will we be taxing them too? Or is my family and the rest of the country stuck paying for them?


Mooshykris

Netto Azure September 30th, 2008 10:40 AM

Economy....
 
Is it just me or does anybody else feel their just dreaming this historic event and election cycle...

Just as the economy took over the US Presidential/Congressional campaigns, it has taken over this thread...

I was thinking that since most average Americans have been comparing the past month to the Great Depression, does that mean that the Democrats will be swept into power again?

A timeline on what the heck happened according to BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7521250.stm

Why did the Bail-out fail (BBC):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7643199.stm

-Simple answer: The American People thought it was A Wall.St giveaway (Both the Left and the Right hated it...rare...)

BBC's Answer:
They (Wall.St) are perceived as greedy, incompetent fat cats who have created this crisis themselves and who are now being allowed to pick the pockets of American voters to fix it.
My AP Biology teacher actually used that word "fat cats" to describe why we got into this mess...


American voters simply have not seen this as a crisis that affects their real lives on Main Street - it is seen as a welfare scheme for the humbled plutocrats of Wall Street.
If the problems deepen and people suddenly see unemployment rising because businesses cannot get money from the banks to pay their bills and honour their payrolls, then that sentiment might change.
Maybe so if things go worse, people might accept anything just like how we accepted the "Alphabet Soup" of Government agencies during the Great Depression (SS FTW!)

How would financial "Armageddon" look like?:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7631281.stm

Not exactly the "Great Depression" everyone is saying...

OH Healthcare...eh touchy subject for me so I'll answer that when I get around to it...sorry....

Lusankya October 1st, 2008 12:48 PM

Call me ignorant, maybe, but I don't see why people don't support the bail-out. If the financial "crisis", as it's being called, continues to advance, then it is very much going to affect the middle-class.

Netto Azure October 1st, 2008 12:50 PM

Also...
 
Also Health-care: During the debate McCain mentioned something about a bout a $5000 tax-credit...Wonder how that would work since it's still the taxpayer and employers who will burden the cost....




Bill Clinton: Economic Crisis Means Veep Choice Is More Important

By Greg Sargent - October 1, 2008, 2:08PM
Bill Clinton -- doing some powerful campaigning in Florida for the first time on Obama's behalf today -- laid out an interesting argument against McCain-Palin, claiming that the economy will consume so much of the new president's attention that the Veep will be forced to play a bigger role on the world stage...

From Bill's comments...

"Senator Obama has spoken a lot about how we oughta relate to the world, and yes, he'll get out and travel some in the first year, we should want him to do it. But he is going to have to be really focused on fixing this economy. That means that role of the Vice President in repairing quickly our relations with the rest of the world will be relatively more important in the first two years of the next presidency. "And I am just telling you, you can talk to me or anybody else at any time in Washington, and they will tell you there is nobody, nobody in the entire United States senate that understands the political, the economic, and the security challenges and opportunities of the world better than Joe Biden does. He is a superb choice."

Impeccably timed by the Master, raising the stakes for the Veep choice right on the eve of the Veep debate.

Wow...way to go Bill...(By posting this I'm incurring the Republican's wrath =P)

Aurafire October 1st, 2008 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Netto Azure (Post 3992162)
Also Health-care: During the debate McCain mentioned something about a bout a $5000 tax-credit...Wonder how that would work since it's still the taxpayer and employers who will burden the cost....




Bill Clinton: Economic Crisis Means Veep Choice Is More Important

By Greg Sargent - October 1, 2008, 2:08PM
Bill Clinton -- doing some powerful campaigning in Florida for the first time on Obama's behalf today -- laid out an interesting argument against McCain-Palin, claiming that the economy will consume so much of the new president's attention that the Veep will be forced to play a bigger role on the world stage...

From Bill's comments...

"Senator Obama has spoken a lot about how we oughta relate to the world, and yes, he'll get out and travel some in the first year, we should want him to do it. But he is going to have to be really focused on fixing this economy. That means that role of the Vice President in repairing quickly our relations with the rest of the world will be relatively more important in the first two years of the next presidency. "And I am just telling you, you can talk to me or anybody else at any time in Washington, and they will tell you there is nobody, nobody in the entire United States senate that understands the political, the economic, and the security challenges and opportunities of the world better than Joe Biden does. He is a superb choice."

Impeccably timed by the Master, raising the stakes for the Veep choice right on the eve of the Veep debate.

Wow...way to go Bill...(By posting this I'm incurring the Republican's wrath =P)

How very clever, Bill. What a perfect thing to say right before the VP debate tomorrow! =P

He's a sneaky one....

Red1530 October 1st, 2008 2:04 PM

Today the Senate is going to take up the bailout proposal. They ticked it to include raising FDIC coverage to $250,000 and passing a temporary fix for the AMT.

suicidesal October 1st, 2008 2:07 PM

I'm in Canada so I cannot vote in the US election but I would totally vote Obama.
As for the upcoming Canadian election, I am voting NDP all the way.

Red1530 October 1st, 2008 6:24 PM

The Senate in a 74-25 vote, passes the bailout bill. The Senate hopes with their changes that the House will pass their version on Friday.

wolf October 1st, 2008 6:27 PM

McCain all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!

Macabre October 2nd, 2008 6:47 AM

Something about the bailout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMFt7tRq-Ps

... and there is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntEE9Zy-qQQ

I wouldn't be surprised if America voted a republican to lead the country again. They did the same when they voted Bush twice for presidency. History repeats itself as always; people just don't learn.

I'm not American but I would definetly vote for Obama.

Mooshykris October 2nd, 2008 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macabre (Post 3994069)
I wouldn't be surprised if America voted a republican to lead the country again. They did the same when they voted Bush twice for presidency. History repeats itself as always; people just don't learn.

I'm not American but I would definetly vote for Obama.

Actually, I have to say one thing, it was 2 terms for a Republican, after 2 terms for a Democrat.

There's not anything about "people not learning" here, it's just how the cycle goes. We're always bound to get one or the other eventually.


One major cycle point: At some point people will get tired of Republicans, and vote Democrat. Then, after enough time, they will be sick of Democrats, and vote Republican. That's what keeps a balance in the system :P


Mooshykris

Lusankya October 2nd, 2008 12:58 PM

Actually, in the past 50 years, there have only been 2 Democrat presidents.

Although, chances are Obama's going to win this time, bringing that number up to 3. Because basically, whenever there's an economic crisis, people turn to the Democrats. Free markets is one the foundation of Republicans, meaning that they don't want to take steps to do anything about a sinking economy.

Allstories October 2nd, 2008 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mooshykris (Post 3988141)
Many people are saying that it will be good, some say it will be bad. Well, why is it one of those two?

You're referring to Universal Health Care, right? Basically, in the US, we pay for a health care system that:
  • Costs way, way more than health care in any other country, even considering taxes,
  • Is practically the same in terms of service as any other developed country,
  • A staggering percentage of people can't even afford,
  • Still leaves us with an average life expectancy lower than that of many third-world countries,
  • People could still pay for if they wanted to even if a universal alternative were implemented.

Mooshykris October 2nd, 2008 2:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lusankya (Post 3994757)
Actually, in the past 50 years, there have only been 2 Democrat presidents.

In the past 50 years, we've had 4 Democrats, and 5 Republicans.

Kennedy - Democrat
Johnson - Democrat
Nixon - Republican
Ford - Republican
Carter - Democrat
Regan - Republican
Bush - Republican
Clinton - Democrat
Bush - Republican


Mooshykris


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