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-   -   The new formes of Platinum- A competetive discussion (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=153114)

DarkTyphlosion157 September 12th, 2008 8:47 AM

I think those who are making Platinum are trying to f off us competitive battlers on purpose.

Ah, sorry about the language.

sims796 September 12th, 2008 8:55 AM

Wait, Flareon & Dragonite both get Super Power!!!!

That really helps them out alot! I mean, Flareon may still be in uu, & Flare Blitz would help moar, but Super Power helps out a bunch!!

T-Pawnch helps Flygon beat Gyarados, so that boosts him up.

Out of all the Sinnoh starters, Empoleon benifitted most. Nape got Gunk Shot, I mean, WTF, & Terra got Earth Power, despite having EarthQUAKE.

I'm pretty pleased with the list so far, it definately changes the metagame,but maybe not for the worst. I would love to see more variety in these pokes, & this may give it to them.

DarkTyphlosion157 September 12th, 2008 8:59 AM

Thing is, Lava Plume Vaporeon, Outrage Venusaur, Magnet Rise Luxray, Seed Bomb Donphan...they all make no sense...

What I find odd is, Typhlosion got T-PAUNCH in Emerald, but not Platinum.

sims796 September 12th, 2008 9:06 AM

Re-read the list. He said that

1)He manually tested it, so there may be pokes that he missed, &

2)He OMITTED pokes that learned the move in Emerald. Snorlax gets Ice Punch, but they left him out, too.

Sure, they may have pokes on there that makes no sense, but they hit many moves that we would KILL for. I mean, Flareon got Super Power! That just boosts him up to actually being useful! Same with Nite, being the only dragon to get it. He can now be fully Banded, without needing Fire Blast. Super Power is a great way for SpecsNite (who still has more moves) to beat Blissey.

Besides, the game is for kids. That means there will be some things that makes no sense (srsly, Lava Plume?). But we should count our blessings.

Super Power Tysplosion FTW!!!

DarkTyphlosion157 September 12th, 2008 9:16 AM

If only...then Blissey wouldn't be having such a good time...

Ah yeah, forgot about omissions...explains Weavile not being on the Ice Punch tutor list...

Permission to laugh @ Entei's Eruption.

Magmortified September 12th, 2008 9:25 AM

According to a little reading on Smogon, Hypnosis is back down to 60 accuracy. Not sure, but that's what I read. =P Plus Bullet Punch Scizor. Platinum just hates on Gengar.

Outrage Mence, Ice Punch Lucario... is nothing sacred? D: To be honest, I'm really hoping that somewhere there'll be an environment untouched by Platinum's evil. Sure, the Rotom formes look cool, but after that it's just more blurring of the metagame that I'm not sure I want.

DarkTyphlosion157 September 12th, 2008 9:28 AM

Just be damn lucky Lucario didn't get the lot. Seriously, the overpopular dog thing got too much stuff. I think Platinum broke OU.

sims796 September 12th, 2008 9:38 AM

Permission granted.

Still, I am pleased at who got what. Vilplume getting Seed Bomb...srsly. Bellosom may have Leaf Blade (which is superior, what with higher base power & crtical chance), but Seed Bomb isn't a poor Substitute. Regardless, the BOTH suck with Physical moves, so it matters not. I'm just glad they got something,though I wish it were special moves.

Super Power on Pinsir isn't enough to make it OU. It DOES have Close Combat, but it gives the player some options. Which would you prefer, a drop in offence,or a drop in defence? Either way, it isn't a killer.

As I said, Flareon & Dragonite GREATLY appreciates Super Power. Now, Flareon has some sort of coverage. Instead of relying on Double Edge, he can use that killer physical stat much better. Yeah, he'd kill for Flare Blitz, but this should quell his appetite for a while, anyway. And Dragonite doesn't need to use that iffy Focus Punch amymoar, what with Super Power. He still has the great special movepool, and can use special attacks much more effeciently. And he can raep with Outrage.

These pokes getting the many Punches helps, too. Flygon is much better at beating Gyarados with T-Punch over Stone Edge. Lucario doesn't fear Gya, or other dragons at that.


I don't think that Platinum broke OU, just changed it. I can really see a major overhaul, but not one as negative.

DarkTyphlosion157 September 12th, 2008 9:48 AM

Becuase Lucario can't really be countered anymore and Salamence is the new Garchomp with its Outrage, yeah, OU isn't broke eh?

Just be lucky we didn't get Recover Bronzong and Dusknoir.

Oh yeah...lol

sims796 September 12th, 2008 9:57 AM

What? Lucario is still slow as dirt, & X Speed doesn't always save him. Without Crunch, SD Lucario is still walled by Cressila, & if it forsakes X-Speed, any faster sweeper stops it. Ice Punch means Gliscor isn't safe, but now others are. He only has four move spaces, and if he loses Crunch, Cressy, Gengar, etc, could stop him. And let's not forget, Weezing beats it no mattter what it uses.

And Salamence isn't as bulky as Garchomp, he lacks Sand Veil, and is still suspect to a good Revenge killer like Weavile. Not to mention the fact that he is still walled by steels. He's only a faster D-Nite. In fact, Lucario helps keep Mence in check.

They got great updates, but nothing game breaking. As I said, it is far too early to start calling OU broken. Other pokes had great improvements as well.

AluminumKnight September 12th, 2008 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkTyphlosion157 (Post 3932823)
Becuase Lucario can't really be countered anymore and Salamence is the new Garchomp with its Outrage, yeah, OU isn't broke eh?

Just be lucky we didn't get Recover Bronzong and Dusknoir.

Oh yeah...lol

You know, you're really starting to get annoying about this... You have to look past the moves that a couple of pokemon get and look at the big picture, like the rest of us have been talking about, instead of dwelling on OMG SALAMANCE WIT OUTRAGE!!!1111

sims796 September 12th, 2008 10:05 AM

No he's not, he has a good point. Mence is definately scarier with Outrage, as unlike Chomp, he can actually increase SPEED as well as Attack. That is very scary, as even Choice Scarf Attackers may not be able to beat it.

Dark Azelf September 12th, 2008 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AluminumKnight (Post 3932847)
You know, you're really starting to get annoying about this... You have to look past the moves that a couple of pokemon get and look at the big picture, like the rest of us have been talking about, instead of dwelling on OMG SALAMANCE WIT OUTRAGE!!!1111

The heck ?

That was uncalled for =/.


Seriously if this is going to be the start of another "sour discussion thread" then i wont hesitate to infract people, so stop before it even begins to bud into that.

Now, can we get back on topic please.

DarkTyphlosion157 September 12th, 2008 10:12 AM

I think Salamence's counters are going to reduce to Bronzong and Hippowdon and thats it. My team is gonna have a DDMence weak when Platinum rolls around. And TPunchLuke.

BoltBeam Punch Lucario is gonna cause a lot of counter problems. Unless you know its moveset, tossing Gliscor/Gyara/Bulkymence is gonna lead in disaster.

Looks like Typhlosion will be staying in BL for a long time.
Steelix I think is going to make the jump to OU. CurseLix laughs at any physical attacks, and with Careful 252/252, plus Steel type, not many special attacks will wreck it either. OK, Water, Fire and Fighting.

Dark Azelf September 12th, 2008 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkTyphlosion157 (Post 3932865)
Steelix I think is going to make the jump to OU. CurseLix laughs at any physical attacks, and with Careful 252/252, plus Steel type, not many special attacks will wreck it either. OK, Water, Fire and Fighting.

I was thinking this when i saw steelix got curse.

G/S/C set or what ? haha. Shame the slower PHazer always goes last now, in G/S/C the slower PHazer went FIRST which means Curse and Roar were pretty nasty.

Anyways, Nasty Plot Darkrai, im really not looking forward to facing that....at all.

And heaven forbid if Heracross gets Ice Punch or Zen Headbutt.

sims796 September 12th, 2008 10:22 AM

Not at all!

Lucario cannot do much damage to Cressila without Crunch. He only has room for FOUR MOVES. Let's look at them...

Close Combat is his main STAB. That stays.

Swords Dance is needed as well.

Without Extremespeed, Lucario gets revenge killed easily.

That leaves one more move availible.

Crunch is almost necessary.Without it, he gets walled by pokes like Cressila, Dusknoir, and other bulky Psychics. But he is stopped by Bulky dargons & Gya.

Stone Edge helps take on Gyarados, or even Mence. But it STILL leaves him walled by Cressy, etc.


No matter what you use, Gliscor stops them all. But...

Ice Punch beats Gliscor. You are now walled by Gya, Cressy, Noir, etc.

Thunder Punch helps to REALLY beat Gya. Great for teams that is really weak to Gya, but useless elswhere.

No matter what, ygou are still stopped by Weezing & Spiritomb.



So how is it so dangerous? The only problem is that Lucario is a dangerous switch in, as you don't know what it has, but it is in no way uncounterable.

DarkTyphlosion157 September 12th, 2008 10:33 AM

Oh yeah, I forgot Weezing laughs at whatever Lucario does.

Nice to see Blaziken got a 120 Fighting attack now. but...INFERIOR TO CLOSE COMBAT

Luxray is damn loving Platinum.

Luxray w. Choice Scarf
Ability: Rivalry
EVs: 252 Atk, what else?
Naughty Nature
Thunderbolt
HP (Ice)
Superpower
Crunch

I can see this performing well in OU. You should be female though.

shedinjask September 12th, 2008 10:33 AM

Female? Then you get walled by males. Blissey isn't switching into any kind of Superpower and Cresselia is easily taken care of elsewhere (SCIZOR RAPE) so male is superior.

Quote:

Thing is, Lava Plume Vaporeon, Outrage Venusaur, Magnet Rise Luxray...
Magnet Rise's Japanese name is Electrolevitate. It uses electricity to mess with the gravity. Vaporeon didn't get Lava Plume, Flareon did. And Venusaur looks like it could go on a rampage.

Quote:

The same way Pachurisu got Seed Bomb.
Pachi gets Seed Bomb because it's a squirrel, which carry acorns. Do elephants carry seeds around?

You guys are all like OMG OUTRAGE MENCE but seriously, it's not Garchomp. It has a SR weak, is frailer, is vulnerable to Sandstorm, and most importantly has Dragon Dance instead of Swords Dance. Sure it can raise its speed, but faster doesn't mean much when you don't have the power to kill things like Garchomp did. Cresselia and Slowbro take hits from Mence much better than they did from Garchomp.

Now, let me show you what it's really all about. Outrage Kingdra.

OU Kingdra @ Life Orb
252 Attk/252 Spd/4 HP -- Lonely/Naughty
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Aqua Tail/Waterfall
Substitute/Draco Meteor

Ubers Kingdra @ Life Orb
252 Attk/252 SAttk/4 Spd -- Lonely/Naughty/Mild/Rash
Waterfall/Aqua Tail
Outrage
Draco Meteor
Ice Beam/Signal Beam

Things are going to get ass-raped.

Also of note are Curse Steelix and Bibarel, Eruption Entei, Aqua Tail Tyranitar (lol Hippowdon is 2HKO'd with Rocks by CBTar), probable Vacuum Wave Alakazam, Trick on Pory-Z and Drifblim and possibly Mew, Gastrodon getting special STAB, Knock Off is on Empoleon and now legal with Rapid Spin on Armaldo and Tentacruel, oh and yes:

Scizor @ Life Orb
252 Spd (or HP)/252 Attk/4 HP (or Spd) -- Adamant
X-Scissor
Bullet Punch
Swords Dance
Roost

Scizor is a pimp.

EDIT: SPRITES HERE.

Hahaha Chingling and Tangrowth.

Samson September 12th, 2008 10:40 AM

i'm so happy for flareon =)

lucario has reached WTF status. i was so sure they weren't going to give it any of the elemental punches but they did it anyway. it just didn't make sense when lucario can't learn tbolt. pulse this, pulse that... THUNDERPUNCH SON!

seedbomb on donphan makes CB set less novelty.

nasty plot crobat has a chance!! o_o

floatzel got ice punch yay

cb flygon is back in town (woot woot)

yay mamo is no longer a punk biotch rofl

sims796 September 12th, 2008 10:55 AM

So where the hell does he carry those Seed Bombs? Second, no one sayng OMG MENCE!!! Only Tysplosion, but he changed his mind.

I am very glad to see to see Curse on Steelix. Very glad indeed.

DarkTyphlosion157 September 12th, 2008 11:44 AM

Looks like Typhlosion got nothing. Shame. I would have liked to use Superpower over Focus Punch on the CSPHlo set.

Liking Signal Beam on Manectric. That means my Pokeradar Shiny Manectric has a 4th special attack. T-Bolt/Flamethrower/Overheat/Signal Beam. No good HP sadly.

The Hero Without a Name September 12th, 2008 11:44 AM

Toggy got no real upgrades ='(

Elemental Punching Luke? Outraging Salamence/every other dragon? Dang... the metagame's REALLY gonna get shaken up now.

. September 12th, 2008 11:48 AM

I'm assuming Salamence gets Outrage this gen. Just saying that it's completely unfair to Nite =-[

DarkTyphlosion157 September 12th, 2008 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabian the Fastman (Post 3932964)
Toggy got no real upgrades ='(

Elemental Punching Luke? Outraging Salamence/every other dragon? Dang... the metagame's REALLY gonna get shaken up now.

The metagame'll live. It did before. ElementalPunchLuke isn't going to make as big of a mess as people anticipate it will, it just is initially harder to counter.

Outrage Salamence can ACTUALLY be stopped. It only get +1 attack at a time, therefore Bronzong and Hippowdon, and even Donphan and bulky waters beat it sometimes. Bronzong is the 99% counter.

sims796 September 12th, 2008 11:54 AM

Boy, wil ya read the other posts? I'm not gonna repeat myself, so I'll just quote:

Quote:

Still, I am pleased at who got what. Vilplume getting Seed Bomb...srsly. Bellosom may have Leaf Blade (which is superior, what with higher base power & crtical chance), but Seed Bomb isn't a poor Substitute. Regardless, the BOTH suck with Physical moves, so it matters not. I'm just glad they got something,though I wish it were special moves.

Super Power on Pinsir isn't enough to make it OU. It DOES have Close Combat, but it gives the player some options. Which would you prefer, a drop in offence,or a drop in defence? Either way, it isn't a killer.

As I said, Flareon & Dragonite GREATLY appreciates Super Power. Now, Flareon has some sort of coverage. Instead of relying on Double Edge, he can use that killer physical stat much better. Yeah, he'd kill for Flare Blitz, but this should quell his appetite for a while, anyway. And Dragonite doesn't need to use that iffy Focus Punch amymoar, what with Super Power. He still has the great special movepool, and can use special attacks much more effeciently. And he can raep with Outrage.

These pokes getting the many Punches helps, too. Flygon is much better at beating Gyarados with T-Punch over Stone Edge. Lucario doesn't fear Gya, or other dragons at that.


I don't think that Platinum broke OU, just changed it. I can really see a major overhaul, but not one as negative.
As for Lucario using the Punches:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sims796 (Post 3932882)
Not at all!

Lucario cannot do much damage to Cressila without Crunch. He only has room for FOUR MOVES. Let's look at them...

Close Combat is his main STAB. That stays.

Swords Dance is needed as well.

Without Extremespeed, Lucario gets revenge killed easily.

That leaves one more move availible.

Crunch is almost necessary.Without it, he gets walled by pokes like Cressila, Dusknoir, and other bulky Psychics. But he is stopped by Bulky dargons & Gya.

Stone Edge helps take on Gyarados, or even Mence. But it STILL leaves him walled by Cressy, etc.


No matter what you use, Gliscor stops them all. But...

Ice Punch beats Gliscor. You are now walled by Gya, Cressy, Noir, etc.

Thunder Punch helps to REALLY beat Gya. Great for teams that is really weak to Gya, but useless elswhere.

No matter what, ygou are still stopped by Weezing & Spiritomb.



So how is it so dangerous? The only problem is that Lucario is a dangerous switch in, as you don't know what it has, but it is in no way uncounterable.

Just cause Mence has Outrage, I don't think it'll be enough to ruin Nite. Now, his other skills can shine.He has more special moves than Mence could only dream about, and he gets Freakin' Super Power!

EDIT:AHA, TYHSPLOSION BEAT MEH


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