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rate...my...team
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You Cannot Grasp The True Form of DarkTyphlosion157's RMT! Team at a Glance: Typhlosion, Vaporeon, Cresselia, Registeel, Kingdra, Gliscor. http://www.serebiiforums.com/images/avatars/anime/typhlosion.png Typhlosion @ Salac Berry **Mr. Movepool Ability: Blaze EVs: 132 Atk/210 SpAtk/176 Spd Naive Nature (-SpDef + Spd) Fire Blast Hidden Power (Ice) Focus Punch Substitute No one ever sees this coming. Pretty much every Typhlosion lead is Scarfed, so people reaching for their ScarfTran/Blissey are in for a shock. http://th01.deviantart.com/fs4/150/i/2004/251/7/a/Vaporeon_in_the_Coral_Reef_by_Yayster.png Vaporeon @ Leftovers **Platinum? HA! Ability: Water Absorb EVs: 124 HP/252 Def/132 SpDef Bold Nature (-Atk +Def) Surf Wish Protect Hidden Power (Electric) Standard Gyarados, Mixape and Heatran counter. http://www.pokegraph.com/galeries/albums/purple_kecleon/thumb_Cresselia.jpg Cresselia @ Leftovers **DuckRoll = RickRoll < GiygasRoll Ability: Levitate EVs: 252 HP/148 Def/108 SpDef Bold Nature (-Atk + SpDef) Ice Beam Charge Beam Rest Sleep Talk Basic RestTalk Cresselia. Counters offensive Deoxys-E and occasionally Mixmence. http://www.marriland.com/phpbb/images/avatars/gallery/100x100%20Avatars%20(Vol%201)/registeel.jpg Registeel @ Shuca Berry **Hyper Spinning Robo (my favorite EB eneny) Ability: Clear Body 252 HP/80 Atk/176 SpDef Careful Nature (-Spd +SpDef) Hammer Arm Thunder Wave Ice Punch Toxic Shaymin-S counter, also capable of taking on DDMence in a pinch plus Toxic for messing up walls. Thunder Wave should any sweeper be stupid enough to stay in, and Hammer Arm as CBTar doesn't carry EQ much nowadays. http://www.serebii.net/anime/pictures/johto/256/0082.JPG Kingdra @ Leftovers *9arch0m:-P Ability: Sniper EVs: 252 Atk/228 Spd/28 HP Adamant Nature (-SpAtk + Atk) Waterfall Substitute Dragon Dance wait for it...Outrage! Probably standard. Broken as hell though. http://www.serebii.net/anime/characters/pics/gliscor.jpg Gliscor @ Leftovers **Look @ my sig Ability: Sand Veil EVs: 244 HP/48 Def/216 Spd Impish Nature (-SpAtk +Def) Earthquake Roost Stealth Rock Fire Fang This is standard IIRC. The EVs generate enough speed to outrun Lucario before it Ice Punches, Max Leftovers and rest in HP. Fire Fang counters Scizor. Sometimes. |
- Outside of absorbing status, Rotom offers absolutely nothing to the team, it is arguably the best Rotom form as you put it, however it is not when it comes to ResTalking, as having it's S.Atk dropped randomly isnt doing it any good.
Vaporeon can counter Gyarados and Gliscor can counter Scizor, it would be best to lose it for something that can handle Mence and Deoxys-E for you as well as absorb status. In other words Cresselia. - Despite Kingdra being far too powerful for the current metagame, people still do not opt to choose to use Dragon Moves to "counter" it, so Haban Berry on it is quite a waste, consider Life Orb. And since you are very confident you'll always be able to get 2 DD under your belt then use this spread: 120 HP/ 252 Atk/ 136 Spd ^ Which outspeeds Scarf Gengar after 2 DD and gives it more bulk, it also gives it 321 HP which allows you to use Life Orb 11 times, however with Sub on the set it defeats it's purpose, so you could consider Yawn > Sub for that. - Gliscor's EVs should be: 244 HP, 48 Def, 216 Spd As it needs the HP more than Defense and reaches a leftovers recovery point at the same time. Taunt > Stealth Rock deserves mention as an option to consider as it will let you outstall Skarm, Bronzong and Forretress with your current moveset. Also, from what I've seen so far Luke tend to run Crunch more than Ice Punch still, so if you are willing to risk it then you could use 244 HP, 188 Def, 76 Spd instead. |
First off, I applaud the usage of Typhlosion. 2nd gen starters were always my favorite, although they all seem outclassed by (ironically) the other starters or other standards.
When using SubDra, I've found that Leftovers is much more efficient for sweeping. Things that use Dragon moves are one of the following: 1) Dragons or 2) Retarded movesets or 3) Groudon. If you're facing 3, disconnect, if you're facing 2, well, then don't worry. All the OU dragons will not stand to an Outrage (which is why hiding behind a sub is key in early game) I haven't seen the use of Fire Fang, it just allows an easier switch in for Gyara. Consider fitting Taunt there, or Ice Fang. Either works, although Taunt is awesome from stopping that Gyara from setting up. |
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With Taunt, Fire Fang becomes even more useful as Gliscor can now easily combat those pesky steel types who think they can come in, wall it, and force it out, hoping to set up in the process, in addition to preventing Gyara switch ins from setting up on it. |
Ah, Scizor, good point. Oh, and Taunt would stop SD Hera regardless.
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So Cresselia then? Righty-ho, what moveset then?
Maybe... Cresselia @ Leftovers Ability: Levitate EVs: 252 HP/56 SpDef/4 Spd/200 Def Calm Nature Ice Beam Charge Beam Rest Sleep Talk Eh, no real idea. Max Leftovers, providing my mental arithmetic is right, jump point in SpDef, Spd becuase somethings EV to outrun Cress and rest in Defence. Well, I was only confident becuase of Haban being there, but if sadly the 2 (out of 7 >_>) matches when they used a Dragon attack was just dumb players, then fine, Leftovers it shall be. Keeping moveset and EV Spread however. Letting Gyara get in on Gliscor does not bother me, as I have Vaporeon to counter it. Not risking Ice Punch Lucario outspeed me, and also keeping SR as I need some indirect damage to help against things like Gyara, Mence and Skymin. (I can deal with them but SR is awesome) Will make a few edits. |
I'm a little iffy on sub leads with all the scarftrick gars running around bit it looks fine.
Your registeel is.... original, but supported by good reasoning. Fire fang on gliscor is ..meh. My point here is everything looks good on paper, but when it come to the test it may not be that effective. What I'm really wondering is how does this team do against DD Kingdra itself? Either than that congrats, it looks solid. |
Fire Fang allows me to have an answer against Scizor, who is a very potent threat now.
Scarf Gengar does not risk Tricking into Typhlosion leads, Eruption OHKOs and Fire Blast does a sackload. Remember, SubPhlo is a novelty set ; ) I don't even know if there is a counter for DD/Sub/Waterfall/Outrage Kingdra. Its revenge KOable but counterable, by my current knowledge I have no idea. Wanting opinions on my Cresselia's custom EV spread. EDIT: Kingdra's EV spread changed to 28 HP/252 Atk/228 Spd. |
Maybe I'm the only who never sees scarf typhlosians anymore and would suspect something else, but it's all your choice. The only "counter" is a phazer... I guess, but considering you're going against the sub set it may take more than one poke to revenge. It'd suck to be taken down by one of your own strategies so keep that in mind.
What role does cresselia play in your team? |
Do not use Rest-Talk Cresselia. It is complete set up fodder. Use this set:
Cresselia @ Leftovers Bold 252 HP/108 Def/150 SpD (EV's could be switched if you like) Charge Beam Ice Beam Moonlight/Reflect Thunder Wave/Reflect Moonlight is completely useless with Sandstorm up, but it's your only "reliable" recovery. |
He needs a status absorber Vance, and as you said Sandstorm ruins that set.
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Cresselia counters a few specific threats like Deoxys-E and some variations of Salamence.
Hmmm, which Pokemon set up on it that can risk keeping in, and which of those would I stay in against? Keeping the RestTalker as I can't think of any. Might change EVs mind. Bold 252 HP/148 Def/108 SpDef I'll use. Eh? ScarfPhlos have gone out of use? |
Doesn't change the fact that the set you're using allows almost any physical attacker not hurt by those moves (think DD Tyranitar, who, might I add, hurts this team A LOT after a Dragon Dance) come in and get basically a free set up.
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I have counters for most physical sweepers. IIRC.
What is the current DDTar set, may I ask? Is it Crunch/DD/Ice Beam/Earthquake? |
Some are like that, but the majority run Stone Edge > Ice Beam.
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Then between Registeel and Gliscor, I'll probably manage.
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Fine, let's place Cress against DD Kingdra. Who on your team handles that once it gets a Sub up?
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Thats not really a valid argument against RestTalk Cresselia. It can get in a Sub against Vaporeon, Registeel if it carries a Lum Berry and even Typhlosion (some of the time) and most teams that don't run HP Dragon Empoleon or Shedinja can't counter it very well at all anyway.
Bottom line: I'm keeping RestTalk Cresselia. |
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If you want to actually counter Kingdra and not be set up fodder i suggest standard Reflect / T-Wave/ Moonlight/ Ice Beam. Who would also help with Jolly Ice Punch Lucario too (yes people use it lol) and said Tyranitar aswell as Agility Heat Wave Zapdos. Possibly with enough sp.att to break Kingdra's sub however much that it =p. Although when laddering with Kingdra i actually found it to not hit hard at all and was generally disappointing when compared to the hype. Meh, I dont know. EDIT //: Moonlight + Sand Storm wont screw you up since you have Wish support. |
Rest-Talk Cresselia is complete set up fodder. Boah can get a free sub up against it, whereas against the other members of your team, it'd have to flee. Substitute / Focus Punch / Ice Beam / Crunch Boah has the potential to O-2HKO your team. The only possible surviver I can see it Vaporeon, which isn't a reliable Boah counter at all.
Jolly Lucario also happily sets up on Cress, and, since it outruns your Gliscor, it'll happily OHKO it with Ice Punch after a Swords Dance. I've been seeing a lot of Extreme-Speed-less versions, meaning it can and will beat up Cresselia with Crunch. Swords Dance / Crunch / Close Combat / Ice Punch hammers your team, Typhlosion is your only answer to it, but with Stealth Rock, and things like Dugtrio running around, and it being a lead, the chances of it surviving in late game (where Lucario is supposed to be used) are very low. Neither of the above threats could easily set up on Vaporeon or Registeel, but Cresselia is simply asking them to. |
*scratches head for a second*
I might replace Charge Beam for T-Wave, seeing as that stops Lucario from SDing. Cresselia is set up fodder to Boah no matter what set, seeing as Reflect is basically support which most of the time I won't get chance to do, and I can't keep relying on Vaporeon to keep one of my other walls alive. Maybe it is due to the randomness of Sleep Talk, I need to think this over... |
You could opt to go with ResTalk on Registeel I suppose, as the team really needs a status absorber, which is clearly being overlooked at the moment, it also needs better Recovery as the team is relying far too much on Vaporeon's Wish support as is and with the lack of Leftovers.
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I'm going to be testing whoever is better with RestTalk. Maybe putting a bit extra investment in the special department to compensate for Leftovers > Shuca, as Specsmin beat me at 50% once due to Seed Flare doing 25% twice.
Thunder Wave over Charge Beam on Cress has been working good, mind. So far I've lost to Shaymin-S, CM Mismagius and one give-up due to a fatal misclick. |
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Weavile I probably won't have a space for here. Its hard enough fitting in all the counters to the metagame, Typhlosion and a good bulky physical sweeper. Plus Weavile is SR weak.
EDIT: Changed Registeel some. |
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