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Platifail : Stall
Well ive been really offensive with the teams i have built lately, so i thought id try something different. Team Overview. http://archives.bulbagarden.net/w/upload/5/57/184.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/w/upload/0/0d/297.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/w/upload/8/81/251.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/w/upload/f/f7/205.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/w/upload/e/e5/Spr_4p_479O.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/w/upload/a/a0/242.png Team in depth. http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/azumarill.png//http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/shawnjon5000/Pokemon%20Items/rsitem164.png Azumarill (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Huge Power EVs: 240 HP / 16 Attack / 100 Defense / 152 Special Defense Careful nature (+Special Defense, -Special Attack)
Annoying as hell Azumarril, paraflinch and providing support with Encore is win. ---Water + Ice + Normal have awesome coverage too, so all in all this set is a BIG irritating pain lol. Its also leading because nothing else has merit as a lead on my team unfortunately. The evs always survive a LO Nasty Plotted Grass Knot from Mixape even with SR up and CC will fail to 2hko aswell. That gives you a taster of just HOW bulky this is and how well this can take hits. This came about with me seeing how useful this thing is after a convo on msn with BeachBoy and Lalapizzame. http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/hariyama.png//http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/shawnjon5000/Pokemon%20Items/rsitem164.png Hariyama (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Thick Fat EVs: 76 HP / 252 Defense / 180 Special Defense Impish nature (+Defense, -Special Attack)
--- http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/celebi.png//http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/shawnjon5000/Pokemon%20Items/rsitem164.png Celebi @ Leftovers Ability: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 252 Defense / 6 Special Attack Bold nature (+Defense, -Attack)
Even WITH Scizor rampant Celebi is still awesome as heck. Not only does it again have some very useful support options but is key in this team http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/Forretress.png//http://www.serebii.net/diamondpearl/items/beautiful-skin.png Forretress (M) @ Shed Shell Ability: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 58 Attack / 200 Defense (0 ivs in speed) Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
LOL Forry. But oh well, its assorted spikes and Rapid Spin made this thing appeal to me even if it IS glorified set up fodder =x. However, the utility options it gets, aswell as the resistances bring alot to this team. Shed Shell is because i fear Magnezone. http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/rotomheat.png//http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/shawnjon5000/Pokemon%20Items/rsitem164.png Rotom-h @ Leftovers Ability: Levitate EVs: 252 HP / 70 Defense / 188 Speed Timid nature (+Speed, -Attack)
I have no idea on what im doing with this thing (as you can probably tell). But yeah, it counters Scizor, Lucario and to some extent Heracross, Gallade and Gyarados. It is also one of the best spin blockers one will hope to find. Again having some key immunities and resistances to boot. The ev spread gives me 280 speed =]. http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/blissey.png//http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v302/shawnjon5000/Pokemon%20Items/rsitem164.png Blissey (F) @ Leftovers Ability: Natural Cure EVs: 252 Defense / 80 Special Attack /176 Special Defense Calm nature (+Special Defense, -Attack)
Still the best sp.wall in the game no questions asked. The support she brings to the team with Wish and the way she walls special attackers is un-rivaled. NOTES : - At first i did have Toxic spikes and toxic as the status moves on this team, but i really found that with the advent of platinum, everything was immune or didnt care about it. T-Spikes was on forry >> SR and SR was on celebi >> Perish song and Perish song was on Azu >> Encore, so yeah, if you care. Paralysis based stall is MUCH more efficient imo, because some sweepers can cause pain and not be stopped by said Toxic and just stat up and own me whilst paralysis cripples them. Paralysis also allows easier switch ins for walls and tanks. Basically Toxic made me set up fodder more than t-wave did/does xp. But so far this team has done really well and ive had comments on how hard/annoying to get rid of it is =p. The key to sucess is easy with this team. Paralyze as much stuff as you can, screw things up any way you can, set spikes and sr up, gogogog causing switches =p. |
D_A, I don't understand the meaning of this team and why you ask us to rate it when I see nothing that is extremely threatening. You have a response to stat-uppers, great synergy, and all that fun stuff. However, you are lacking power on the special side. I WOULD suggest a late-game mixed sweeper to clean up the mess that you can't outstall, but removing any of the team would result in a weakness somewhere.
Okay, I guess I can say this: You have nothing to absorb status easily. I'm either missing a cleric move here somewhere or I don't see one at all. Then again, my team-building and team-rating skills have both dropped drastically to almost-fail levels. |
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Also Hariyama has Rest-Talk for status and both Celebi and Bliss have Natural Cure =3. |
I'd tend to agree with ABYAY. A stall team like this doesn't leave many weaknesses open, and you have all the major threats covered. Like....all of them. It's a very solid team. I can't see any major problems.
I'd say go with Ice Beam > Flamethrower on Bliss since you have the steels covered with Rotom. And that's all I can say right now, because there's not much else to rate XD |
K im a noob, Encore and Aqua Jet is illegal. X]. But, not to worry since it doesnt make much of a difference.
SOOOOOOO. - Put Waterfall >> A-Jet. - Bulked up Azumarill's ev spread and ran some calcs vs mixape, mence, etc and that spread is optimal for taking hits and OHKOing both in return. |
Curse you, D_A, and your genius.
This is an amazing team. It really is too bad that Encore + Aqua Jet is illegal...:# I do notice a small problem with Suicune and other Pressure users do give you problems and drain the PP of your offensive moves quite fast. I suggest going with Force Palm on Hariyama, as if you run out of the paltry 8 PP Cross Chop has, you'll be SOL to deal with things like Suicune and Aerodactyl (especially if the latter Taunts you x.X) This is just a small nitpick. If you don't consider this much of a problem, just ignore the critique, then. :P You have to teach me how to build teams of such utter win like this. /jealousy |
Okay, so you don't have Toxic Spikes...Which is just plain gay if you don't mind me saying =[
Anyway, the CB Machamp + CB Hera argument still stands, as each of them are still very menacing to your team: CB Close Combat vs Forretress 53.67%-63.56% A 2HKO every single time. Not exactly safe :p CB Ice Punch vs. Celebi: 48.02%-56.93% Okay, so this thing has a better chance, woop dee-do. CB Payback vs. Rotom-O: 51.97%-61.84% Without Toxic Spikes, Heracross becomes a huge problem still, being able to 2HKO your ENTIRE team. CB Close Combat vs. Forretress: 51.97%-61.84% Always a 2HKO =[. CB Night Slash vs. Rotom-O: 71.05%-84.21% CB Megahorn vs. Celebi: Do I really need to? Okay, so fighters give you immense trouble, since a large majority of them posses something to get by Rotom-O. Weezing is your "best" bet against these guys, but over whom? |
Skarmory, Spikes or Whirlwind/Rest/Talk/Drill Peck
...? I don't know, the best thing I can think to counter those is something that flies, has good Defense, and doesn't get owned by Stealth Rock. Gliscor WOULD work but it gets owned by CB Champ's Ice Punch. But then you become TTar weak :# Vance, you and your calculations need to shove it and shut up. :# |
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because I'm a noob and didn't think it through.
sorry for trying to help, geezus cheezus. :# you do it, then. since I apparently can't ._. |
Heracross NEVER carries Night Slash (though it should given the Rotom forms and the relative uselessness of Pursuit but whatever lol). In most cases, I don't see it being a threat. with Night Slash it could be a problem, but it has to predict right and Toxic/SR damage is going to eat away at it in no time. Hera isn't a threat imo
I mean Guts users are always going to be a hindrance to Toxic Spikes reliant stall teams. Even then, I think this team takes them effectively given the disadvantages a stall team is at against them. One criticism I have is the Hariyama set...it's WAY too easy to set up on. You handle threats well, but your pokemon aren't going to be 100% all the time and the more opportunities you opponent is given to sweep you, the more likely it is that it'll happen. You have Wish support anyways and Hariyama is no sleep absorber. Thunderpunch is great for Gyarados backup, and standard options like Toxic are always useful for a stall team like this. As with about every stall team, Blissey over reliance is present, so be careful of random Explosion teams and stuff. That'll screw you up if you aren't prepared. The one actual weakness of this team is the original stall breaker of the generation that seems to be obsolete now, Infernape. Mixape really screws your team over with the exception of Azumarill, and it actually does take a fair amount from Grass Knot. Its EVs help in that regard, but your defense against it is rather slim, so don't let it mess your team up. Overall a good team. No major weaknesses (though there are a few minor holes, but most DP teams have them anyways and I'm sure it's true with awful Platinum is awful). STALL STALL STALL (Team Orb weak imo) EDIT: About Hera, I think Vance bringing up the point is valid, but I just don't see it doing much to this team given what it has to deal with. |
Two things:
- Azu shouldn't be leading without Aqua Jet, it defeats the purpose. Encore is better on faster pokemon. - No Toxpikes absorbtion worries me, as you are pretty much downed by them. |
He doesnt' really need a Toxic Spikes absorber, 4/6ths of his team is immune or can shrug it off via ability/rest
and He has his RS'er named forretress to back that up. |
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Celebi actually eats machamp alive more often than not and is more than bulky enough to mispredict a couple of times, and with forry's resists to ice and payback im more than capable of walling it. Rotom can also come in on anything bar payback. Im also more than capable of predicting myself btw xp and since they have to be choice to even do that damage, resistances and immunities and careful prediction keeps them at bay. The same can be said about any stall team in reference to the Machamp weak, since weezing and Spiritomb are its only 100% sure fire counters. One just sucks and the other is outclassed pretty much by rotom. Heck i even have a revenge killer in rotom (who can actually come in anything bar Night Slash, so its more than a good enough counter) so i kinda dont get the Hera one lol Quote:
I get what your saying but i cant see them being problems, nor have either one took out one of my pokes as of yet or swept me. Quote:
Yeah i was annoyed that encore and a-jet was illegal, i was like "nowai =/" Quote:
Well im thinking about switching leads to conserve Azumarril for Mixape. Since NP LO Grass Knot does 74% MAX to Azu which is less than what vappy takes iirc , so i live even with SR up and an unboosted LO Grass Knot (those all out mixape with hp ice) doesnt even 2hko XP. Oh and fun fact; Hariyama isnt OHKO'd by a LO NP Grass Knot, so i have that too =]. But yeah i see what you mean. Anyways, as of yet the only ape set that has caused me problems was an Endevour + Vaccum wave sash one @[email protected], well not problems per say, since i knew what it was going to do so i just Encored it first turn rather than attacking it lol. As for the Hariyama thing, again i see what you mean, but he does his job well, so meh. Also things cant set up him that easilly if they get blown away or paralysed. Quote:
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And the only really usable T-Spikes absorber's are like Tentacruel (who dies to duggy making me mixape weak) and Roserade ? But why would i want that on a stall team as it has limited resistances and is really only good for t-spikes then is kinda useless. As for the t-spike weak claim, 5/6 of my team dont care in the slightest about them and i have Rapid Spin =p. Again i get where your coming from, so yeah. ------------------------------------------ I guess i could try Toxic Spikes again myself, but i kinda want T-Wave on Celebi which conflicts with them. I mean they really wont be hard to fit in but since in Platinum T-Spikes are more than useless im unsure, since they hit like 2 things =/ Well thanks for the comments guys, its given me a few things to think about X] |
Well, if CB Machamp is outpredictable, then CB Gallade is in the same boat, although much less. It's less common, so that's a plus for you, seeing as it can 2HKO everything (with hax against Celebi and maybe Rotom, if it gets paralyzed.)
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Anyways after laddering some more on both smogon AND official i feel some changes need to be made which will be put on the first post shortly or when i feel like it. - Leading with Trick scarf rotom where trick is >> reflect and Toxic as an option on next to s-ball because Zapdos annoys me and it takes alot for me to get rid of >: and Rotom is an awesome counter, so yeah.(BeachBoy told me of this problem when he was using the team for laddering purposes, thief !!). Switched to scarf set for mainly for dealing with sub seed skymin and to revenge threats should they break through. Same spread and same bulk. - Put Knock Off >> Body Slam on Azumarril and Perish Song >> Encore. Due to legality issues. And so i could put SR on Celebi and still have P-Song. - Put Stealth Rock >> Perish Song on Celebi and Reflect >> T-Wave. - Put Toxic Spikes (eww) >> SR on forry. Thoughts ?. |
Hariyama gets crushed by common sleepers (so Milotic doesn't count, and Surf can do a fair amount of damage). resttalk on machamp is really only useful for recovery, unless you want to pin it against Breloom, Gengar, Yanmega...yea lol. not to imply that a good sleep absorber has to beat them all but the most common ones crush machamp so yea lol
And when asleep, Hariyama has around a 50% chance (lower actually) of actually paralyzing with Force Palm or WWing something setting up on it away. If it is PHazing that happens, that pokemon will keep getting around a 50% chance of sweeping each time Hariyama needs to recover off damage, something that is way too risky to deal with. The last thing a stall team wants to be is a set-up fodder (I would know as a former resttalk cress user lol) as it will lose its ability to stall, which is essential obviously. Resttalkers are pretty risky, and Hariyama could be doing things like badly poisoning fun little Gyarados or Zapdos trying to come in on a fighting attack. I just don't see the value or Resttalk even if it has been working. Everything can get better after all, especially a resttalker. I would at least try out some other utility options. Hariyama can do a lot. |
ResTalkers are still one of the only forms of sleep absorbtion. Unless you run a faster Lum Berry Taunter, or something with Insomnia (Which is limited to 4 UUs and 1 BL), then there is no reliable way to take it.
You're also rather slow, with no priority, meaning you'll have a bad time with anything that manages to set up. Oh and Heracross concerns me a bit. Sorry my last post was poorly thought out, I was in a rush. |
No longer need this
~Closed~ EDIT : Hi Smogon, its me, Dark_123 <3 !!! |
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