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-   -   Writing about Sues/Stus in a serious way (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=162328)

Gummy December 7th, 2008 6:26 PM

Writing about Sues/Stus in a serious way
 
Okay, so I've finally come to terms with myself that DI will not be getting a chapter for some time, and that it'd be wrong to try to force one out. So instead I've been planning a new fic that's been juggling around in my mind for months. It takes place in one of the canon regions (haven't decided which yet) and will probably follow the usual storyline as none of my whacked out stories never seem to work. Anyways, the story is about two boys, one being your average, normal teen, and the other being a stu (but not to the point where he's an obvious stu like in parodies). It is told from the POV of the normal kid, who always seems to be second best because his traveling partner (who also happens to be his closest friend) is a stu and of course, must be exceedingly awesome at everything.

Now here's the problem: I'm not sure if I can write this without a few people calling it a parody. It's really just a kid trying to get out of the shadow of his friend as they travel the world. I won't even make the other character's stuness humorous. So my question to you guys is does this still seem too much like a parody? Would you take it seriously?

And and all suggestions and comments are welcome.

long live the ffl orgy

Negrek December 7th, 2008 6:48 PM

I wrote a serious story that was based on this premise, so I'd like to think that it can be done. I'm sure everybody has their own real-life Mary-sues/Gary-stus: people who just seem like they'll always be better than you, who, even if not perfect, always seem to succeed in the end, to get what they want, etc. Basically, people you're really jealous of. This is a feeling that everyone can relate to, so if you were to handle it well, I'm sure it would be a good fiction.

ANARCHit3cht December 7th, 2008 9:44 PM

To be honest, the two traveling people, it sounds to much like the rivalry between Ash and Gary Stu, er.. I mean Oak. Gary was all perfect and on top of his game had cheerleaders in his face all the time, always got his way, he had lots of money, a nice car etc etc.. and Ash always tried to beat Gary.it sounds to much like that, and to me that is a major turnoff. I would be able to take it seriously, because Parody's just aren't funny to me, the people are good writers, but lack the ability to write a parody, so yes I would be able to take it seriously. The Parody's aren't funny to me, because all the Parody's I have seen, a hack and a couple of stories involved a Stu/Sue or a Gothic Stu/Sue, or even a person with a messed up life who thought they were perfect, and then beside that it was all about drugs, drugs, and more drugs.. and in the hack, a word that I will not say, that the creator of hack thinks is funny, but is wrong on so many levels. Ah, there I went rambling on again..

Post Office Buddy December 7th, 2008 9:57 PM

Quote:

To be honest, the two traveling people, it sounds to much like the rivalry between Ash and Gary Stu, er.. I mean Oak. Gary was all perfect and on top of his game had cheerleaders in his face all the time, always got his way, he had lots of money, a nice car etc etc.. and Ash always tried to beat Gary.it sounds to much like that, and to me that is a major turnoff. I would be able to take it seriously, because Parody's just aren't funny to me, the people are good writers, but lack the ability to write a parody, so yes I would be able to take it seriously. The Parody's aren't funny to me, because all the Parody's I have seen, a hack and a couple of stories involved a Stu/Sue or a Gothic Stu/Sue, or even a person with a messed up life who thought they were perfect, and then beside that it was all about drugs, drugs, and more drugs.. and in the hack, a word that I will not say, that the creator of hack thinks is funny, but is wrong on so many levels. Ah, there I went rambling on again..
That seemed like a lot of half-formed thoughts. All I really got from it was that no one on this forum can write a good parody, despite the recent emergence of quite a few good ones, and something about hacks involving drugs. I'm a little confused o.O

Anyway, on topic, I think that if you can execute it correctly, then you should be able to pull it off. As ong as you don't throw humor into every paragraph, then I don't think anyone will mistake it for a parody. Either way, you should write it just to get it out of your system.

If it's told from the PoV of the normal kid and you repeatedly emphasize the idea that the Stu is better than him in all ways, then it should work out pretty well.

Ninja Caterpie December 8th, 2008 2:51 AM

Make the POV person better at all the useless things so...yeah. Like he's the faster jumbo-bacon-and-egg-muffin-eater.

Other than that, if there isn't too much humour, it's alright.

JX Valentine December 8th, 2008 8:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Caterpie (Post 4179136)
Make the POV person better at all the useless things so...yeah. Like he's the faster jumbo-bacon-and-egg-muffin-eater.

Even this isn't actually necessary. By definition, a Gary Stu would be better than the ordinary character at everything, which covers also the useless things.

Really, I just agree with Negrek in that if you look at it as a relationship based on one character being jealous of the other (for justifiable reasons in this case), it'd be surprisingly easy to take it seriously because anyone can relate to it. Where you go from there (as in, how you execute the jealousy) should be up to you, Gummy.

The only other advice I can offer is don't be explicit and over-the-top about your character being a Gary Stu. If you hit all of the cliches right off the bat, you'll get that parody feel. If you make things subtle (like only the character mentioning the Gary Stu's incredible beauty or the Gary Stu arriving at an answer before the ordinary character -- generally, keep at least part of the Gary Stu's traits and abilities relative to the ordinary character), your reader might:

A. Be put off by it and call you out on it but have to dig for evidence.
B. Never notice (if it's subtle enough) because they simply can't see it.
C. Never notice it because they pass it off as the ordinary character's opinion.

In other words, yes, it's perfectly possible to take such a fic seriously. It just depends on how you do it.

ANARCHit3cht December 8th, 2008 2:57 PM

Yeah, like Xanthine said, and it could also depend on the reader, some people think different things are funny, and think that what you write is funny, whether you mean it to be or not.

Gummy December 8th, 2008 4:52 PM

Quote:

I wrote a serious story that was based on this premise, so I'd like to think that it can be done. I'm sure everybody has their own real-life Mary-sues/Gary-stus: people who just seem like they'll always be better than you, who, even if not perfect, always seem to succeed in the end, to get what they want, etc. Basically, people you're really jealous of. This is a feeling that everyone can relate to, so if you were to handle it well, I'm sure it would be a good fiction.
It's always nice to get pointers from people who are experienced with similar writing. And yeah, I was going for something that people can easily relate to. In fact, I can relate to in more ways than one, which makes all the more fun and easier to write. Let's just hope it turns out good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lostt
To be honest, the two traveling people, it sounds to much like the rivalry between Ash and Gary Stu, er.. I mean Oak. Gary was all perfect and on top of his game had cheerleaders in his face all the time, always got his way, he had lots of money, a nice car etc etc.. and Ash always tried to beat Gary.it sounds to much like that, and to me that is a major turnoff.

I think there's something you misunderstood in my plot. Ash and Gary were really never friends, while my two characters are really close. Ash could put Gary to the back of his mind and continue on with his own journey (which he usually did), where as my narrating character is constantly trying to decide whether losing his friends is worth gaining his own identity. And finally, the stu in my story isn't out to hurt my character at every chance he gets, he is just naturally better. After all, if you're good at something, it's not your job to tone down your skills so your friend can be happy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Post Office Buddy
Anyway, on topic, I think that if you can execute it correctly, then you should be able to pull it off. As ong as you don't throw humor into every paragraph, then I don't think anyone will mistake it for a parody. Either way, you should write it just to get it out of your system.

If it's told from the PoV of the normal kid and you repeatedly emphasize the idea that the Stu is better than him in all ways, then it should work out pretty well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthine
Really, I just agree with Negrek in that if you look at it as a relationship based on one character being jealous of the other (for justifiable reasons in this case), it'd be surprisingly easy to take it seriously because anyone can relate to it. Where you go from there (as in, how you execute the jealousy) should be up to you, Gummy.

The only other advice I can offer is don't be explicit and over-the-top about your character being a Gary Stu. If you hit all of the cliches right off the bat, you'll get that parody feel. If you make things subtle (like only the character mentioning the Gary Stu's incredible beauty or the Gary Stu arriving at an answer before the ordinary character -- generally, keep at least part of the Gary Stu's traits and abilities relative to the ordinary character), your reader might:

A. Be put off by it and call you out on it but have to dig for evidence.
B. Never notice (if it's subtle enough) because they simply can't see it.
C. Never notice it because they pass it off as the ordinary character's opinion.

In other words, yes, it's perfectly possible to take such a fic seriously. It just depends on how you do it.

The only thing that has stopped me from writing it already is that I think the parodiness of it will come involuntarily. But, with Xanthine's advise, I guess I can get around that by not making everything so blatant. I think I'll change things around a bit where the stu is better at pretty much everything except the Pokemon-related things, in which he and the narrator are at the same level. The guy has to have something going for him, after all, if he wants to get over this jealousy thing.

Thanks for all your help guys.

Bay December 16th, 2008 6:19 PM

Everyone pretty much said what I was about to say, but I like to offer one example where there's a Stu/Sue and is taken seriously. Farla's fic, "Lucki" is also of a Sue, but none of the reviewers noticed the Sue qualtiies of that character. True, in the end the writer has it be a parody (in a not laugh out loud manner, though), but I'm giving this example to show how there is a way to have a character a Sue but not in an obivious manner.


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