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-   -   A 1/15 in originality (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=163958)

Skip Shot December 23rd, 2008 11:06 AM

A 1/15 in originality
 
The Platifail metagame lacks a lot of originality. The pokemon you see always have the same sets: Double Dance Kingdra, ScarfTran, DDTar, DD Gyara, the list goes on. If you can come up with at least 1 pokemon who isn't one of those boring old standards, you might be able to pull out a few victories- and leaving ur opponent standing there, confused.

In this team, I implemented two original pokemon sets that few others have thought of into the team. These pokemon are the ones that usually net me victories.

One thing I don't enjoy is the fact that noone rates my teams. Although its probably because they're so screwed up, ppl don't know where to start, I would appreciate itif you would at least try to give some advice. Thanks!


THE LEAD
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/aerodactyl.png

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 6 HP

Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Taunt
Stone Edge

This is the classic Stealth Rock suicide lead. Aerodactyl's main job is to put up rocks and die honorably. There are a lot of leads that are designed to just kill off Aerodactyl these days, however. Because of this, I never use Taunt, and am thinking about dropping it.

THE REVENGE KILLER
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/heatran.png

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Naive Nature
252 Spa/ 252 Spe/ 6 Atk

Fire Blast
HP Ice
Explosion
Earth Power

Scarftran is here to keep the naughty Lukes and Zors away. FIre Blast deals with Scizor, while Luke doesn't like Earth Power. Explosion just hurts.

The Gyarados Counter
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/porygon2.png

[email protected]
Bold Nature
252 HP/ 216 Def/ 40 Spa

Thunder Wave
Recover
Ice Beam
Discharge

I had a bad Gyarados weak, so I brought in this guy. Discharge brings in parahax, T-Wave messes up a lot of things, and Ice Beam stops the dragons.



THE SPECIAL SWEEPER
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/kingdra.png

Kingdra @ CHoice Specs
Timid Nature- Swift Swim
252 Spa/ 252 Spe/ 6 HP

Hydro Pump
Draco Meteor
Ice Beam
HP Electric

Another shocker to most teams, Specsdra can OHKO to 2HKO most common threats. Draco Meteor hits 2HKO's on Luke, Heatran, and Vappy, and OHKOes GYara with SR up. Hydro Pump demolishes practically everything that DM doesn't besides Grass users, which succumb to Ice Beam. HP Electric is a filler, put does provide a secondary check to Gyara.

THE GUTS ABUSER
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/machamp.png

Machamp @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature- No Guard
252 HP/ 110 Atk/ 144 Def

DynamicPunch
Ice Punch/Stone Edge
Rest
Sleep Talk

Tyranitar Counter, as well as status absorber. Machamp can dish out some pretty hard damage as well with D-Punch. Im not sure whether to go with Ice Punch for the dragons, Stone Edge for Gyara, or Payback for Ghosts. Although SE hits most dragons, I'm concerned about Flygon, whose usage is up.

THE PHYSICAL SWEEPER
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/scizor.png
Scizor @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature-Technician
252 Atk/ 252 HP/ 6 Spe

Bullet Punch
Roost
Superpower
Swords Dance

SD Scizor is a terror to most teams. SD up, then destroy with a base 90 priority in BP and Superpower, which is horrific to most teams. Roost keeps me alive longer.


My Biggest Problems

-The lack of a Phazer-
This allows Baton Pass teams to come in and set up in my face.
-Hail Teams- Abomasnow leads take out huge chunks of my team, then Walrein stalls everybody else off. Again, Phazing could be a big help.
-Curselax- If it gets a curse up, I can't do much to it, especially if Machamp is down.


Changes Implemented
-Changed Signal Beam to U-Turn on Zapdos
-Changed CB Machamp to RestTalk Machamp
-Changed Celebi to Pory2
-Changed ScarfZappy to ScarfTran
-Changed Toxic to T-Wave on Pory2


Dark Azelf December 23rd, 2008 11:52 AM

What is Signal Beam for ? U-Turn is much better for scouting and what not.

Ill come back later if i spot anything else.

Skip Shot December 23rd, 2008 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 4218607)
What is Signal Beam for ? U-Turn is much better for scouting and what not.

Ill come back later if i spot anything else.

K. Signal Beam was mainly a filler. I'll change to U-Turn.

Anti December 23rd, 2008 12:41 PM

uhhhhhhhh Celebi is a horrible status absorber. It has problems with Gengar and Yanmega, and Celebi has to switch out for the status to go away, so it's kind of a lose-lose situation. Also, you should LO that since it hits more things for neutral than for supereffective. Don't lie to yourself: status rapes this team.

I'd make Machamp Resttalk, which allows you to take status a little better (though not much, but at least you actually TAKE it lol). It also decimates Curselax and of course Tyranitar. Also, Draco Meteor doesn't 2HKO Heatran lol. It doesn't even 3HKO...

You're also Gyarados weak. Machamp is OHKOed 41% of the time by Waterfall after a DD (assuming it's all-out offense) with SR down. It can always Waterfall you switching in, and you're toast. Kingdra is OHKOed by EQ/Stone Edge 53% of the time with SR down. Celebi is OHKOed 67% of the time with SR down when it Ice Fangs you.

In other words, get a Gyarados counter. Hoping to get a good roll on damage and assuming everything is at full health switching in is a BAD idea. Unless you're fine relying on your (SR weak) revenge killer to beat it. What I'm saying is that leaving the the way they are doesn't mean Gyara sweeps you every time, but you're very vulnerable.

Skip Shot December 23rd, 2008 1:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti Pop Culture Warrior (Post 4218739)
uhhhhhhhh Celebi is a horrible status absorber. It has problems with Gengar and Yanmega, and Celebi has to switch out for the status to go away, so it's kind of a lose-lose situation. Also, you should LO that since it hits more things for neutral than for supereffective. Don't lie to yourself: status rapes this team.
Status does cause me problems, I'll change Champy to RestTalk.

I'd make Machamp Resttalk, which allows you to take status a little better (though not much, but at least you actually TAKE it lol). It also decimates Curselax and of course Tyranitar. Also, Draco Meteor doesn't 2HKO Heatran lol. It doesn't even 3HKO...

You're also Gyarados weak. Machamp is OHKOed 41% of the time by Waterfall after a DD (assuming it's all-out offense) with SR down. It can always Waterfall you switching in, and you're toast. Kingdra is OHKOed by EQ/Stone Edge 53% of the time with SR down. Celebi is OHKOed 67% of the time with SR down when it Ice Fangs you.

In other words, get a Gyarados counter. Hoping to get a good roll on damage and assuming everything is at full health switching in is a BAD idea. Unless you're fine relying on your (SR weak) revenge killer to beat it. What I'm saying is that leaving the the way they are doesn't mean Gyara sweeps you every time, but you're very vulnerable.

Gyara hasn't been giving me too much problems, since Kingdra usually comes in with DM or HP and destroys it, or they die by prediction. I'll look into a Gyara counter though. What's a good Gyara counter that can inflict status?

moments. December 23rd, 2008 1:44 PM

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Bold || Trace
252 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpA / 96 SpD

Ice Beam
Discharge / Thunderbolt
Recover
Magic Coat / Thunder Wave

This thing kills Gyara. Switch in and it will lower his attack using Trace (Intimidate) then proceed to bulk of some hits while Thunderbolting or Discharge. If you choose Thunder Wave, pick Thunderbolt for added damage but if you want Magic Coat, go with Discharge. Recover to heal off any damage received and Ice Beam for coverage.

He is rather successful as a lead, but you could use him anywhere I guess, he takes on Gyarados' quite well and spreadsstatus like you asked for, so he is my recommendation.

Samson December 23rd, 2008 1:51 PM

max speed timid zapdos w/ scarf? overkill anyone?

if you're going to run roost on scizor, at least give it a whole lot more bulk. assuming that it'll manage with its base defenses is silly to assume. otherwise, you should put some serious consideration into running a CB set.

Skip Shot December 23rd, 2008 2:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noxious. (Post 4218932)
Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Bold || Trace
252 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpA / 96 SpD

Ice Beam
Discharge / Thunderbolt
Recover
Magic Coat / Thunder Wave

This thing kills Gyara. Switch in and it will lower his attack using Trace (Intimidate) then proceed to bulk of some hits while Thunderbolting or Discharge. If you choose Thunder Wave, pick Thunderbolt for added damage but if you want Magic Coat, go with Discharge. Recover to heal off any damage received and Ice Beam for coverage.

He is rather successful as a lead, but you could use him anywhere I guess, he takes on Gyarados' quite well and spreadsstatus like you asked for, so he is my recommendation.

Yeah, I'll go with that. hOwever, since Discharge provides parahax, ima stick with toxic>>T-wave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samson (Post 4218956)
max speed timid zapdos w/ scarf? overkill anyone? lolno

if you're going to run roost on scizor, at least give it a whole lot more bulk. assuming that it'll manage with its base defenses is silly to assume. otherwise, you should put some serious consideration into running a CB set.

I just realized that I put the wrong EVs on Scizor. and wrong nature lol. Making those changes as well.

Also, I was talking to D_A and Anti, and they convinced me to change my revenge killer to ScarfTran.

Anti December 23rd, 2008 2:28 PM

Move the SDef EVs on P2 to defense.

Use Thunder Wave >>> Toxic. Conflicting status probably isn't a good idea, especially since Discharge is really unreliable. Thunder Wave is generally better anyways.

Skip Shot December 23rd, 2008 2:45 PM

Shouldn't Toxic be there to stop walls or stuff that resists T-Wave, like Gliscor?

Dark Azelf December 23rd, 2008 2:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sc4rfCh0mp (Post 4219174)
Shouldn't Toxic be there to stop walls or stuff that resists T-Wave, like Gliscor?

But....porygon2 has Ice Beam, why are you worrying about Gliscor lol ?

Anti December 23rd, 2008 3:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sc4rfCh0mp (Post 4219174)
Shouldn't Toxic be there to stop walls or stuff that resists T-Wave, like Gliscor?

I don't know about you, but I'd much rather give a wall a free switch-in instead of a sweeper...

...And as D_A said, Porygon2 handles most walls anyways, and stuff like Blissey laughs at Toxic anyways.

Skip Shot December 23rd, 2008 6:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti Pop Culture Warrior (Post 4219244)
I don't know about you, but I'd much rather give a wall a free switch-in instead of a sweeper...

...And as D_A said, Porygon2 handles most walls anyways, and stuff like Blissey laughs at Toxic anyways.

Ok, that makes sense. I'll change Toxic to T-Wave. Any more changes?

EDIT: I just tested the team with its changes. Although it does annoy a lot of ppl, one things that's been hindering me is the lack of a fighting resist.

Samson December 24th, 2008 12:59 AM

specs celebi is an option over specs kingdra. requires more prediction for causing damage but does good damage nonetheless. not sure how much standard LOGyara does w/ Ice Fang to Celebi, but something worth checking over.

Dark Azelf December 24th, 2008 4:30 AM

I told you on shoddy that scarf Heat rotom would do better >> tran and it also gives you a fighting immunity.

Skip Shot December 24th, 2008 7:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 4220850)
I told you on shoddy that scarf Heat rotom would do better >> tran and it also gives you a fighting immunity.

Ok. I don't know the set completely, is it T-Bolt or Discharge/Overheat/Shadow Ball/HP Fighting?

. December 24th, 2008 9:00 AM

The fact that you're using Close Combat on a ResTalk Machamp leads me to believe you're either incredibly stupid, or just a troll. I'm leaning towards the latter, I'm keeping my eye on you ;(

Use Dynamipunch/Low Kick >>> It

Skip Shot December 24th, 2008 9:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vance (Post 4221355)
The fact that you're using Close Combat on a ResTalk Machamp leads me to believe you're either incredibly stupid, or just a troll. I'm leaning towards the latter, I'm keeping my eye on you ;(

Use Dynamipunch/Low Kick >>> It

The reason I'm using CC is to not give away the fact that Champy is RestTalk, which allows setups to occur. Should I change it?

Anti December 24th, 2008 9:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vance (Post 4221355)
The fact that you're using Close Combat on a ResTalk Machamp leads me to believe you're either incredibly stupid, or just a troll. I'm leaning towards the latter, I'm keeping my eye on you ;(

Use Dynamipunch/Low Kick >>> It

lol I love you Vance

But what he's saying isn't far from the truth. Close Combat is unbelievably silly. Use No Guard Dynamicpunch, which prevents it from being a set-up fodder (Flygon surely won't like that). Again wow o_O

I don't mean to bug you but what does this team actually DO? What is the strategy? 6 Pokemon that are weak to very little doesn't magically make your team good...so what exactly do you DO? I mean from the looks of it, it looks like this team travels around aimlessly until Kingdra comes in :x

Skip Shot December 24th, 2008 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti Pop Culture Warrior (Post 4221399)
lol I love you Vance

But what he's saying isn't far from the truth. Close Combat is unbelievably silly. Use No Guard Dynamicpunch, which prevents it from being a set-up fodder (Flygon surely won't like that). Again wow o_O

I don't mean to bug you but what does this team actually DO? What is the strategy? 6 Pokemon that are weak to very little doesn't magically make your team good...so what exactly do you DO? I mean from the looks of it, it looks like this team travels around aimlessly until Kingdra comes in :x

I was making this team to try and revolve around Scizor and Kingdra, who are the two sweepers. I usually have Pory2, Champy, and Tran kill off all of the threats. Scizor makes a nice late-game cleanup, while Kingdra usually is there to hit hard on the incoming counters. Celebi also was there as a sweeper to clean up some messes and inflict status before Pory2 came around.

Anti December 24th, 2008 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sc4rfCh0mp (Post 4221531)
I was making this team to try and revolve around Scizor and Kingdra, who are the two sweepers. I usually have Pory2, Champy, and Tran kill off all of the threats. Scizor makes a nice late-game cleanup, while Kingdra usually is there to hit hard on the incoming counters. Celebi also was there as a sweeper to clean up some messes and inflict status before Pory2 came around.

But your team doesn't support either of them at all lol. Strategy isn't "well I hurt stuff with pokemon x and defend with pokemon y and pokemon z." It doesn't work that way.

I mean, I don't see how this team is even remotely competitive against stall unless you can blow up Blissey, but don't count on it. You do better against offensive teams, but let's be fair here, Kingdra is the only one that can hit them back for anything until the late game maybe (but you still don't have anything to lure and kill Scizor's counters, so even then it might not matter). I doubt you'll be able to hold up long enough against a well-constructed offensive team to win.

In other words, I don't think your "strategy" is really going to...work ._. It has too many problems with common pokemon and team types, especially the latter.

. December 24th, 2008 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sc4rfCh0mp (Post 4221379)
The reason I'm using CC is to not give away the fact that Champy is RestTalk, which allows setups to occur. Should I change it?

The second they see Leftovers = ResTalker. And you're gonna have to Rest once in a while. Things that counter CBMachamp EASILY counter ResTalker, at least Dyanmicpunch makes it harder to switch in.

Skip Shot December 24th, 2008 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti Pop Culture Warrior (Post 4221587)
But your team doesn't support either of them at all lol. Strategy isn't "well I hurt stuff with pokemon x and defend with pokemon y and pokemon z." It doesn't work that way.

I mean, I don't see how this team is even remotely competitive against stall unless you can blow up Blissey, but don't count on it. You do better against offensive teams, but let's be fair here, Kingdra is the only one that can hit them back for anything until the late game maybe (but you still don't have anything to lure and kill Scizor's counters, so even then it might not matter). I doubt you'll be able to hold up long enough against a well-constructed offensive team to win.

In other words, I don't think your "strategy" is really going to...work ._. It has too many problems with common pokemon and team types, especially the latter.

What do you suggest then? The team's been doing pretty well so far.

Anti December 24th, 2008 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sc4rfCh0mp (Post 4221706)
What do you suggest then? The team's been doing pretty well so far.

...Getting a strategy lol

As in, make a plan that you want to start executing from the first turn, and be sure you are prepared for when your plan doesn't go like you want it to as that happens a lot.

For example, how does Aero contribute to your plan? Is SR that important? Stuff like that...in fact, I actually do wonder why exactly you have it >_>

EDIT: why the HELL are you using Timid on something who needs its power as much as Kingdra ?_?

Skip Shot December 24th, 2008 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti Pop Culture Warrior (Post 4221712)
...Getting a strategy lol

As in, make a plan that you want to start executing from the first turn, and be sure you are prepared for when your plan doesn't go like you want it to as that happens a lot.

For example, how does Aero contribute to your plan? Is SR that important? Stuff like that...in fact, I actually do wonder why exactly you have it >_>

EDIT: why the HELL are you using Timid on something who needs its power as much as Kingdra ?_?

Ok... SR is pretty important to me because it helps me net quite a few KO's. Aero's job will be to get Rocks up the first turn, unless I can see Status or Rocks coming. If Rocks are coming, I Taunt, If Status is coming, I can switch to Machamp. After that, its hard to make an effective startegy, because there's a lot of variables- hax, what they have, and so on.

I'll try strategizing by giving each Pokemon roles on the team.

Aero- Put up Rocks.
Machamp- Take Status, and counter Tyranitar. Status can screw over everyone on my team.
Porygon2- Counter Gyarados, inflict status, and stop physical sweepers, mainly DD sweepers. Pory2 needs to counter GYara, because Gyara can wall Scizor and 2HKO with Waterfall. The Dragons also give Scizor no mercy.
Heatran- Revenge kill anything that kills one of my pokemon off. PLay safe on switches. Since ScarfTran is common on other teams, I can Earth Power and hope to net a kill from that. Revenge killing makes it easier to finish opponents off late game.
Kingdra- Hit things hard, maybe KO early game, make them easy to pick off.
Scizor- Clean up late-game.

Is that viable, or sucky?

Oh, Kingdra has Timid so it can outspeed DD Kingdra and kill off with DM. That's also why Swift Swim is there, helps against the double Dancers.

Anti December 24th, 2008 12:22 PM

You're listing each pokemon's individual strategy and what they do for the team, not the team's strategy itself...

EDIT: Strategy is how you plan to win games. "Revenge kills stuff" does not explain that very well.

You don't have to put an explanation of your startegy in every RMT or anything, but you have to have a strategy or your team won't be very good.

Skip Shot December 24th, 2008 4:20 PM

I never really thought of a team strategy. I guess the current one is having the team revolve around Scizor, and keep it from dying/entering until late game, where it can sweep efficiently.

Anti December 24th, 2008 7:32 PM

But in order for that to be successful you need to get Scizor some support like a lure and things that do well against its counters. Otherwise it won't work consistently.

Skip Shot December 25th, 2008 8:22 AM

From what I've seen, the best counters to Scizor are Gyarados, Tangrowth, Infernape, the Rotom forms, and Skarmory. Gyarados gets taken care of by Porygon2, Tangrowth doesn't like Heatran or Kingdra, Infernape also falls to Kingdra, Skarm gets taken care of by Pory2, Kingdra, or Heatran. The only trouble I'm going to get with Scizor is from the Rotom forms. I can counter those with Kingdra, who can 2HKO iirc with DM/Hydro Pump, and Pory2 can dispatch non Rest-Talkers with T-Wave. Heatran can also take the predicted Overheat from Oventom.

Anything I missed?

Dark Azelf December 25th, 2008 8:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sc4rfCh0mp (Post 4223861)
From what I've seen, the best counters to Scizor are Tangrowth

Ew, no its an awful counter since it gets owned by X-Scissor.

A strategy can be as simple as using CB Tar to Pursuit Blissey or using Dugtrio to remove Blissey and then sweeping with <insert special sweeper here>, another one is lure tran, setting up SR and Exploding/Toxicing bulky water thus alowing Gyarados to sweep. More recently it seems to be using Scarf Magnezone to remove scizor / <insert steel> and then sweeping with Latias (These are just examples and wouldnt be fitting in with this team). Its really not hard to come up with a way to ensure the game opens up for x pokemon when y pokemon is out of the picture ;).

I still feel Thunderwave is so redundant on Porygon2 especially when it gets stuff like Discharge, Toxic at least lets this team do something to zapdos/ rotom formes and make it much easier for scizor to sweep late game and with all the Toxic/SR damage it aint walling scizor for much longer.


As to your previous question, yes that is the set for scarf rotom, again so you can at least have something that doesnt get owned by Close Combat. However Trick on said set would be decent too to lure in blissey <insert special wall >and thus making Kingdra's job one heck of alot easier, but you would then you would be more at risk from CB [email protected] and what not without HP Fight which is the only logical move to put Trick over, so meh.

Skip Shot December 25th, 2008 9:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 4223903)
Ew, no its an awful counter since it gets owned by X-Scissor.
Since I don't have X-Scissor on here...

A strategy can be as simple as using CB Tar to Pursuit Blissey or using Dugtrio to remove Blissey and then sweeping with <insert special sweeper here>, another one is lure tran, setting up SR and Exploding/Toxicing bulky water thus alowing Gyarados to sweep. More recently it seems to be using Scarf Magnezone to remove scizor / <insert steel> and then sweeping with Latias (These are just examples and wouldnt be fitting in with this team). Its really not hard to come up with a way to ensure the game opens up for x pokemon when y pokemon is out of the picture ;).

I still feel Thunderwave is so redundant on Porygon2 especially when it gets stuff like Discharge, Toxic at least lets this team do something to zapdos/ rotom formes and make it much easier for scizor to sweep late game and with all the Toxic/SR damage it aint walling scizor for much longer.
Gah, One tells me that T-Wave is better, another says Toxic. Although T-Wave has helped me set up several Scizor sweeps (cripples Heatran), I'll give Toxic a trial run.


As to your previous question, yes that is the set for scarf rotom, again so you can at least have something that doesnt get owned by Close Combat. However Trick on said set would be decent too to lure in blissey <insert special wall >and thus making Kingdra's job one heck of alot easier, but you would then you would be more at risk from CB [email protected] and what not without HP Fight which is the only logical move to put Trick over, so meh.

Question on Scarftom: If I dropped Shadow Ball, which would probably be rarely used, could I run HP Fighting/Overheat/T-Bolt/Trick?


So, I guess my strategy is to hit things early with Kingdra, cripple Scizor's counters with P2, then clean up with Scizor.

Anti December 25th, 2008 9:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sc4rfCh0mp (Post 4223976)
So, I guess my strategy is to hit things early with Kingdra, cripple Scizor's counters with P2, then clean up with Scizor.

No...you still don't get strategy. D_A explained it well, but p2 is not going to open up a Scizor sweeper, EVER. It actually counters many of Scizor's counters and checks (Gyarados, Heatran, physical Salamence) so it's not like p2 will have the chance to "cripple" them seeing as they'll switch out. Your team isn't revolved around a Scizor sweep and it's honestly not even close to that so thinking a sweep is going to be magically open late-game is going to be a big mistake, bucko.

The "I guess my strategy is..." gives it away - you're lying to yourself. You don't have a strategy. It would probably be more productive coming up with a strategy and making necessary replacements than trying to come up with the "strategy" you have now when it clearly doesn't exist. That will save us all time and your team losses.

mtr12 December 27th, 2008 10:19 AM

Props on the interesting Kingdra set...I use a DD+Sub Kingdra, but I'm thinking of using Dragonite instead.

Try Swords Dance/Bullet Punch/Quick Attack/Roost on Life Orb Scizor (I stole this from someone and have been using it to great effect). The more defense EV's the better. Come in on a physical attack and shrug it off w/ your great defense. SD as the opponent switches to their Plotape or whatever. And Quick Attack will land a OHKO on the Infernape after an SD. I've swept teams before w/ this and they never say it coming.

Of course, watch out for Mixmence and it's buddies that pack Fire Blast/Heat Wave/Overheat. But the idea is to SD while they switch in and blast them. Immunity to Toxic helps, but Will-o-Wisp can screw this up.


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