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Keyaki December 24th, 2008 1:13 PM

Team Platinum!!!
 
After asking related- questions and with help from Platinum i think i finally got my team fro Wifi Platinum metagame!

Advice and concerns are welcome,kthx

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/scizor.png
[email protected] Band
Adamant Nature
6HP/252Atk/252Spd

U-Turn
Pursuit
Bullet Punch
Brick Break

Lead of the team, should be able to get rid of Aeros and their Stealth Rock leads

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/infernape.png

[email protected] Life Orb
Naiive Nature
24Att/252SpAtt/232Spd

Flamethrower
Grass Knot
Nasty Plot
Close Combat

Pretty much the Mixed Sweeper of the whole team. Able to take on those Bulky Water types, the heavier the are,the harder they fall, lol espically with Life Orb and Nasty Plot. Close Combat is pretty much for everything in between, and Flamethrower, you know where thats going.

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/staraptor.png

[email protected] Band
Adamant Nature
252Att/252Spd/6HP

Brave Bird
Close Combat
U-Turn
Return

Choice-Bander,Physical Sweeper

They do say that Staraptor is a great Choice Bander, especially with 2 powerful STABs along with Choice Band. Same as with Infernape, Close Combat is for everything else and U-Turn is mainly a "utility", letting Staraptor get a attack in before pulling out.

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/lucario.png
[email protected] Specs
Modest Nature
252SpAtt/252Spd/6HP

Aura Sphere
Dark Pulse
Dragon Pulse
Vaccum Wave

The Special Sweeper of the team, able to take on a whole bunch of different threats, tried this set-up in Shoddy and it really worked against both a Gengar and Dusknoir.



http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/starmie.png

Starmie @Flame Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 136 HP/ 156 Def/ 216 Spe
Nature: Timid
~ Thunderbolt
~ Surf
~Trick
~ Rapid Spin

I needed a good Water Pokemon, i wanted to use Floatzel but its not that strong yet so 'ill have to go with Starmie, since SR is a popular move in the OU and since i do have a Flying type, I'm gonna need something with Staraptor. And Trick with Flame Orb after another of Pokemon faints, sounds devilish /gg

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/gengar.png
[email protected] Specs
Timid Nature
4 HP/252SpAtt/252Spd

Trick
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Thunderbolt

I replaced Hypnosis with Trick to help cripple, hopefully help counter against Gyara

The Hero Without a Name December 25th, 2008 1:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4221990)
After asking related- questions and with help from Platinum i think i finally got my team fro Wifi Platinum metagame!

Advice and concerns are welcome,kthx

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/infernape.png

[email protected] Life Orb
Naiive Nature
24Att/252SpAtt/232Spd

Flamethrower
Grass Knot
Nasty Plot
Close Combat

Pretty much the Mixed Sweeper Lead of the whole team. Able to take on those Bulky Water types, the heavier the are,the harder they fall, lol espically with Life Orb and Nasty Plot. Close Combat is pretty much for everything in between, and Flamethrower, you know where thats going.

Why would you lead with NPMixape? A lot of the common leads like Aero and Azelf still set SR up on it, and then can proceed to OHKO you with something like Earthquake or Psychic. If you want a leading Infernape, use Leadape:

Infernape @ Focus Sash
64 ATK/252 SPATK/192 SPD
Stealth Rock
Fake Out
Fire Blast
Close Combat/Encore
Quote:


http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/staraptor.png

[email protected] Band
Adamant Nature
252Att/252Spd/6HP

Brave Bird
Close Combat
U-Turn
Double-Edge

Choice-Bander,Physical Sweeper and maybe 2nd Lead

They do say that Staraptor is a great Choice Bander, especially with 2 powerful STABs along with Choice Band. Same as with Infernape, Close Combat is for everything else and U-Turn is mainly a "utility", letting Staraptor get a attack in before pulling out.
Okay.

Quote:

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/lucario.png
[email protected] Lens
Modest Nature
252SpAtt/252Spd/6HP

Aura Sphere
Dark Pulse
Dragon Pulse
Vaccum Wave

The Special Sweeper of the team, able to take on a whole bunch of different threats, tried this set-up in Shoddy and it really worked against both a Gengar and Dusknoir.
Why are you using Scope Lens? They're banned. I think you meant to use "Choice Specs," given your Lucario's moveset.

Quote:

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/carnivine.png
[email protected] Life Orb
Jolly Nature
252 ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 HP

Power Whip
Crunch
Swords Dance
Sleep Powder

I always did like Carnivine, despite its Stats and limited move pool. It always has come out on top in the Diamond metagame and in Shoddy when i least expected.
Carnivine's still slow and frail, thus fairly easy to KO. Yes, Sleep Powder does give him a free SD (provided your opponent only has one answer to Carnivine), but when your opponent sends in a real counter, with his pathetic speed and no priority attack, Carnivine won't be around for much longer.

Quote:

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/floatzel.png


[email protected]
Jolly Nature
232HP/ 7Att/ 8Def/ 16 Spd/ 252SPAtt

Ice Beam
Aqua Tail
Crunch
Rain Dance

Rain Dancer of the line-up. Makes use of Swift Swim, along with its 16 Spd EVs able to out speed Gengar with Crunch, it also helps against the Dragons and Breloom ( if Staraptor or Infernape can't)
Eh... why Floatzel? Assuming your Infernape lives, then Rain Dance is only going to hinder him.
Quote:

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/dusknoir.png

[email protected]
Careful Nature
252 HP/ 76Def/ 180 SPdef

Shadow Sneak
Thunderpunch
Pain Split
Will-o-Wisp

Immune to Spikes, a counter to Floatzels with Crunch, and able to cripple Physical Sweepers, Will-o-Wisp was always fun for me.
meh

wolf December 25th, 2008 2:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4221990)
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/staraptor.png

[email protected] Band
Adamant Nature
252Att/252Spd/6HP

Brave Bird
Close Combat
U-Turn
Double-Edge

Choice-Bander,Physical Sweeper and maybe 2nd Lead

They do say that Staraptor is a great Choice Bander, especially with 2 powerful STABs along with Choice Band. Same as with Infernape, Close Combat is for everything else and U-Turn is mainly a "utility", letting Staraptor get a attack in before pulling out.

Okay, problem here is that, how can you get a attack in before pulling out when you already used a move. I thought you can only use one move with CB. O.o I might come back for other things, I just spotted that and thought I should say something about that...

luke December 25th, 2008 3:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4221990)
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/carnivine.png
[email protected] Life Orb
Jolly Nature
252 ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 HP

Power Whip
Crunch
Swords Dance
Sleep Powder

I always did like Carnivine, despite its Stats and limited move pool. It always has come out on top in the Diamond metagame and in Shoddy when i least expected.

As much as I love Carnivine, the other venus flytrap Pokemon does this better with a higher attack stat and priority move in sucker punch.

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 176 Speed / 82 HP
Ability: Chlorophyll

Leaf Blade
Sucker Punch
Sleep Powder / Encore
Swords Dance

Keyaki December 26th, 2008 3:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabian the Fastman (Post 4224405)
Why would you lead with NPMixape? A lot of the common leads like Aero and Azelf still set SR up on it, and then can proceed to OHKO you with something like Earthquake or Psychic. If you want a leading Infernape, use Leadape:

Infernape @ Focus Sash
64 ATK/252 SPATK/192 SPD
Stealth Rock
Fake Out
Fire Blast
Close Combat/Encore



Okay.


Why are you using Scope Lens? They're banned. I think you meant to use "Choice Specs," given your Lucario's moveset.


Carnivine's still slow and frail, thus fairly easy to KO. Yes, Sleep Powder does give him a free SD (provided your opponent only has one answer to Carnivine), but when your opponent sends in a real counter, with his pathetic speed and no priority attack, Carnivine won't be around for much longer.


Eh... why Floatzel? Assuming your Infernape lives, then Rain Dance is only going to hinder him.

meh

[quote]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabian the Fastman (Post 4224405)
Why would you lead with NPMixape? A lot of the common leads like Aero and Azelf still set SR up on it, and then can proceed to OHKO you with something like Earthquake or Psychic. If you want a leading Infernape, use Leadape:

Infernape @ Focus Sash
64 ATK/252 SPATK/192 SPD
Stealth Rock
Fake Out
Fire Blast
Close Combat/Encore


uh, no only one STAB and that barely hits, if i every get into a fight with Aero or Azelf, or if SR appears, I'll just wing it

Quote:

Why are you using Scope Lens? They're banned. I think you meant to use "Choice Specs," given your Lucario's moveset.
I'll fix that

Quote:

Carnivine's still slow and frail, thus fairly easy to KO. Yes, Sleep Powder does give him a free SD (provided your opponent only has one answer to Carnivine), but when your opponent sends in a real counter, with his pathetic speed and no priority attack, Carnivine won't be around for much longer.
we'll see, not like i have much choice anyway, Carnivine has always worked for me in the past and in Shoddy and the only other Grass Pokemon out there is Celebi and Breloom, and i don't either of them

Quote:

Okay, problem here is that, how can you get a attack in before pulling out when you already used a move. I thought you can only use one move with CB. O.o I might come back for other things, I just spotted that and thought I should say something about that...
eh, im thinking of changing it to maybe Pursuit, but im not sure though

The Hero Without a Name December 26th, 2008 3:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4226882)
uh, no only one STAB and that barely hits, if i every get into a fight with Aero or Azelf, or if SR appears, I'll just wing it

It's still a LOT better than leading with NPMixape. What does he accomplish as a lead? Pretty much nothing. What can Leadape accomplish? He can get SR up, get rid of sashes on enemy leads, and even force them to run through Encore (if you opt for it).

Quote:

we'll see, not like i have much choice anyway, Carnivine has always worked for me in the past and in Shoddy and the only other Grass Pokemon out there is Celebi and Breloom, and i don't either of them
Point still stands: Why use Carnivine when there are things that can do what he does so much better?

Keyaki December 28th, 2008 5:48 PM

Quote:

Point still stands: Why use Carnivine when there are things that can do what he does so much better?
Okay then, smarty pants, what do you prefer?

The Hero Without a Name December 28th, 2008 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4232637)
Okay then, smarty pants, what do you prefer?

Hmm... I don't know... How about... Victreebel, who actually does your whole "sleep and sweep" thing much better due to a higher speed stat (not to mention priority move in Sucker Punch)? How about Scizor, the premier physical sweeper in today's metagame?

Keyaki December 29th, 2008 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabian the Fastman (Post 4233283)
Hmm... I don't know... How about... Victreebel, who actually does your whole "sleep and sweep" thing much better due to a higher speed stat (not to mention priority move in Sucker Punch)? How about Scizor, the premier physical sweeper in today's metagame?

sigh, well the only way for me to get Scizor is if I get it in a trade, and I don't really like using Victreebel

But i guess I have no choice:

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/scizor.png
[email protected] Orb
Adamant Nature
32 HP/252Atk/224Spd

X-Scissor
Swords Dance
Super Power
Bullet Punch

Keyaki December 30th, 2008 4:53 PM

Quote:

Eh... why Floatzel? Assuming your Infernape lives, then Rain Dance is only going to hinder him.
You got a better water type?

Rinnosuke December 30th, 2008 5:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4238173)
You got a better water type?

I strickly do Gyarados , Swampert , Suicune , Empoleon, the list goes on.....

The Hero Without a Name December 30th, 2008 6:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4238173)
You got a better water type?

I meant to say, why use the Rain Dancing Floatzel?

Keyaki December 30th, 2008 7:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fabian the Fastman (Post 4238452)
I meant to say, why use the Rain Dancing Floatzel?

Yea i see what meant by, though thats i have Close Combat

Quote:

Close Combat is pretty much for everything in between
Quote:

I strictly do Gyarados , Swampert , Suicune , Empoleon, the list goes on.....
Gyarados's Stealth Rock weakness scares me, I don't want to use any legendary Pokemon and i don't want to use more than one starter, you got another?

sorry if I'm being alittle difficult......

wolf December 31st, 2008 8:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4238500)
sorry if I'm being alittle difficult......

Hmmm... :\ Maybe Tentacruel, Starmie, Milotic (except she has bad coverage), Kingdra, Vaporeon, there is some more... You could use some Wish Support from Vaporeon. Starmie is a great sweeper, you could use bulky Starmie:

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 136 HP/ 156 Def/ 216 Spe
Nature: Timid
~ Thunderbolt
~ Surf
~ Recover
~ Ice Beam/ Rapid Spin

Does very well if used correctly, it is also a great Gyara counter! =]

Keyaki January 2nd, 2009 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowmightyena (Post 4239854)
Hmmm... :\ Maybe Tentacruel, Starmie, Milotic (except she has bad coverage), Kingdra, Vaporeon, there is some more... You could use some Wish Support from Vaporeon. Starmie is a great sweeper, you could use bulky Starmie:

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 136 HP/ 156 Def/ 216 Spe
Nature: Timid
~ Thunderbolt
~ Surf
~ Recover
~ Ice Beam/ Rapid Spin

Does very well if used correctly, it is also a great Gyara counter! =]

heh heh that'll work, i never really used Starmie before

Anti January 2nd, 2009 3:47 PM

Watch out though, Starmie is an unreliable counter at best, so being reckless switching into Gyarados probably is a bad plan.

I would just throw a Lirf Orb on it and go Ice Beam >>> Rapid Spin. you lose Rapid Spin but it kinda sucks anyways. LO Starmie is incredible with your opponent's special walls out of the way (and if they don't have one, you're damn tough to stop)

Noir Lancer January 2nd, 2009 4:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4221990)
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/infernape.png

[email protected] Life Orb
Naiive Nature
24Att/252SpAtt/232Spd

Flamethrower
Grass Knot
Nasty Plot
Close Combat

Pretty much the Mixed Sweeper Lead of the whole team. Able to take on those Bulky Water types, the heavier the are,the harder they fall, lol espically with Life Orb and Nasty Plot. Close Combat is pretty much for everything in between, and Flamethrower, you know where thats going.

As said before this really isn't all that good of a lead really.

Also the current EV spread is the standard I suppose, though you could opt for:

64 Atk/ 252 SpA/ 192 Spe


Which outspeeds Adamant Max speed neutral Base 100's, since 232 puts you ahead of Adamant Dugtrio, and no intelligent player using Adamant would dare to bring it on on Infernape.

You'd be better off using the anti lead Infernape here, same nature and suggested EVs except the moveset is:

- Fake Out
- Stealth Rock
- Close Combat
- Overheat


Quote:

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/lucario.png
[email protected] Lens
Modest Nature
252SpAtt/252Spd/6HP

Aura Sphere
Dark Pulse
Dragon Pulse
Vaccum Wave

The Special Sweeper of the team, able to take on a whole bunch of different threats, tried this set-up in Shoddy and it really worked against both a Gengar and Dusknoir.
Not sure what Scope Lens is supposed to do here, did you mean Choice Specs?

Personally I don't really like Specs Lucario, it lost most of it's hype when it lost it's ability to 2HKO Blissey.

Instead you could opt for MixedLuke:

Lucario @ Life Orb
Naive Nature (+Spe -SpD)
68 Atk/ 212 SpA/ 228 Spe
- HP Ice
- Shadow Ball
- Close Combat
- Aura Sphere/ Vacuum Wave/ Bullet Punch

HP Ice is for Hippowdon and Gliscor, Shadow Ball for Cresselia, Dusknoir and Rotom, and Close Combat OHKOs Blissey instead of 3HKOing with Aura Sphere.

Unfortuantely even MixedLuke is outclassed by some extent by the standard SDLuke, though Mixed luke does have better coverage and is faster than the average SD Lucario. Mixed Luke would allow the freedom to use the aforementioned Lead Ape set instead since it's basically the same in essence.

Quote:

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/scizor.png
[email protected] Orb
Adamant Nature
32 HP/252Atk/224Spd

X-Scissor
Swords Dance
Super Power
Bullet Punch
40 HP/ 244 Atk/ 224 Spd

Grants minimum Life Orb recoil for what it's worth.

Otherwise this is an ordinary offensive team where you are metagame weak if you cannot stay on the offensive.

Keyaki January 2nd, 2009 4:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti (Post 4246980)
Watch out though, Starmie is an unreliable counter at best, so being reckless switching into Gyarados probably is a bad plan.

I would just throw a Lirf Orb on it and go Ice Beam >>> Rapid Spin. you lose Rapid Spin but it kinda sucks anyways. LO Starmie is incredible with your opponent's special walls out of the way (and if they don't have one, you're damn tough to stop)

I know, I thought the exact same thing, Im thinking of switching with Vaporeon instead

Quote:

Not sure what Scope Lens is supposed to do here, did you mean Choice Specs?
yes, yes i keep meaning to change it


Quote:

As said before this really isn't all that good of a lead really.
Its not really lead anymore, i changed that

Anti January 2nd, 2009 6:00 PM

You know that Starmie is begging for Life Orb and probably max speed too. Bulky Starmie hasn't been good since the rise of offensive DD Gyarados and Yache/CB Garchomp. You might as well run the Life Orb EVs and item since the set works best with that really. Bulky Starmie can't counter Gyarados anyways so you might as well put the opponent on their heals and whatnot.

Keyaki January 3rd, 2009 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti (Post 4247338)
You know that Starmie is begging for Life Orb and probably max speed too. Bulky Starmie hasn't been good since the rise of offensive DD Gyarados and Yache/CB Garchomp. You might as well run the Life Orb EVs and item since the set works best with that really. Bulky Starmie can't counter Gyarados anyways so you might as well put the opponent on their heals and whatnot.

I know, i know

I looked on Smogon and even though the moveset is good it doesn't seem to have anything else

I might just switch to Vaporean, and have to rely on Gengar LO to take care of Gyarados at least with Will-o-Wisp it should be able to cripple it.........somehow

Sebastien Loeb January 3rd, 2009 1:13 PM

Once done eliminate Stramie you don't think that your team becomes too much weak to ScarfTran?

Keyaki January 3rd, 2009 1:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastien Loeb (Post 4249582)
Once done eliminate Stramie you don't think that your team becomes too much weak to ScarfTran?

what do you mean? scarfHeatran?

xcthulhux January 3rd, 2009 2:34 PM

one thing i noticed is your lack of walls.
adding blissey would be a very good asset to this team, because you could switch it in on some of the more common threats to this team like other gengars, alakazams, and lucario's, and it could also be a good stealth rock support.
not to mention that it can learn aromatherapy to get rid of status affects.

this team doesn't have a HUGE problem with dealing with stealth rock, but because you have staraptor, you might want something with rapid spin to back it up.
my favorite spinners are donphan, forretress, and tentacruel.
the addition of tentacruel in place of starmie, would give you a spinner, and something to stand up to stand up to scarftran, (duh, starmie can learn rapid spin) and set up toxic spikes.

your current scizor set somewhat worries me in the fact that it would get ripped apart by almost any trap passer.
replacing x-scissor with u-turn could help a lot with that
superpower really isn't the best move for a life orb scizor, because it makes it more fragile.
the best set for scizor IMO is a CB priority abusing scizor.
CB scizor w/ bullet punch is one of the biggest threats in the OU metagame due to technician.

hope i helped out a bit.

Keyaki January 3rd, 2009 3:48 PM

Quote:

one thing i noticed is your lack of walls.
I know, that worries me too

Quote:

(duh, starmie can learn rapid spin) and set up toxic spikes.
I answer with this:

Quote:

You know that Starmie is begging for Life Orb and probably max speed too. Bulky Starmie hasn't been good since the rise of offensive DD Gyarados and Yache/CB Garchomp. You might as well run the Life Orb EVs and item since the set works best with that really. Bulky Starmie can't counter Gyarados anyways so you might as well put the opponent on their heals and whatnot.
Quote:

your current scizor set somewhat worries me in the fact that it would get ripped apart by almost any trap passer.
replacing x-scissor with u-turn could help a lot with that
superpower really isn't the best move for a life orb scizor, because it makes it more fragile.
the best set for scizor IMO is a CB priority abusing scizor.
CB scizor w/ bullet punch is one of the biggest threats in the OU metagame due to technician.
i'll change that, looks good to me too, though U-Turn doesn't seem that strong of a STAB though, same with Bullet Punch :/

randomspot555 January 3rd, 2009 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4221990)
After asking related- questions and with help from Platinum i think i finally got my team fro Wifi Platinum metagame!

Advice and concerns are welcome,kthx

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/infernape.png

[email protected] Life Orb
Naiive Nature
24Att/252SpAtt/232Spd

Flamethrower
Grass Knot
Nasty Plot
Close Combat

Pretty much the Mixed Sweeper of the whole team. Able to take on those Bulky Water types, the heavier the are,the harder they fall, lol espically with Life Orb and Nasty Plot. Close Combat is pretty much for everything in between, and Flamethrower, you know where thats going.

Poor lead. Bulky leads won't care about the damage, except T-Tar who'll switch out, and glass cannon/suicide leads will set up then KO on their first attack.

Use the Anti-lead sets for Ambipom, Weavile, or Infernape instead.

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/staraptor.png

[email protected] Band
Adamant Nature
252Att/252Spd/6HP

Brave Bird
Close Combat
U-Turn
Double-Edge

Choice-Bander,Physical Sweeper and maybe

They do say that Staraptor is a great Choice Bander, especially with 2 powerful STABs along with Choice Band. Same as with Infernape, Close Combat is for everything else and U-Turn is mainly a "utility", letting Staraptor get a attack in before pulling out.

Three moves that affect the bad bird negatively (HP loss from Double Edge and BB, lower defense from close combat) isn't very wise for a SR weak Poke. Return over Double Edge, and Jolly nature for the additional speed.

Pursuit is available, but I don't see Staraptor forcing many switches, so it won't be nearly as useful as it should be.

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/lucario.png
[email protected] Specs
Modest Nature
252SpAtt/252Spd/6HP

Aura Sphere
Dark Pulse
Dragon Pulse
Vaccum Wave

The Special Sweeper of the team, able to take on a whole bunch of different threats, tried this set-up in Shoddy and it really worked against both a Gengar and Dusknoir.

This is fine, though I'd recommend Timid for a boost in speed. Also, don't switch with Staraptor if it U-Turns out.

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/scizor.png
[email protected] Band
Adamant Nature
6HP/252Atk/252Spd

U-Turn
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
U-Turn

You can't have the same move on a Pokemon twice, and set up on a Choice user is useless outside of Trick. Re-think this.


http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/vaporeon.png
[email protected]
Bold Nature
188 HP / 252 Def / 68 SpA

Surf
Wish
Toxic
Protect

Toxic won't be nearly as useful as you want it to be, and this set is shut down by Taunt. Unlikely later in the game, but possible.

Ditch Toxic or Protect for a HP. HP Electric seems to be the cool thing to use for Gyarados, but HP Grass can be used for Swampert, or HP Dragon for Kingdra. Ice Beam is also an option if you want to lose both Toxic AND Protect.

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/gengar.png
[email protected] Orb
Timid Nature
4 HP/252SpAtt/252Spd

Will-o-Wisp
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Thunderbolt

This Gengar is trying to be everywhere at once. If you want an attacking set, let it attack. If you want it to status, let it status.

Want it to attack? Ditch WOW for an appropriate HP, or Explosion. Status calls for Wide Lens, Hypnosis, and Subsitute. The strategy is to come in on an immunity, force a switch, set up Subsitute, and fire away at a status. Without a chance to sub-up, Gengar doesn't stand a chance at setting up WOW and surviving.

I replaced Hypnosis with Will-o-Wisp to help cripple

Your team only has ONE Pokemon with any type of defense investment. Therefore, Stealth Rock hurts a lot, even if the glass cannon in question resists it. And because FOUR of your Pokemon are relatively fragile, it'll be very hard to counter correctly.

To specific problems: An abundunce of (sometimes poorly used) Choice Items limits this teams viability. And if you U-Turn out to a Chocie user, it ALSO has to use U-Turn or it'll be forced to Struggle.

There isn't a reliable status absorber. Sure, your Steels can absorb Toxic, and Ape WOW...but if you mispredict and Ape comes in on an attack, it's screwed.

Blissey will help this team greatly. She can force switches on special attackers, absorb status, and take lighter physical hits. The standard Cleric Bliss will work just fine, and I recommend Flamethrower over the other elemental attacks because of Scizor.

Any number of defensive oriented Starmie sets can also work wonders. Team support with ability and Reflect/Light Screen and Rapid Spin, base 100 special attack means it can hit hard without maxing it out, and a good move pool. I don't think it's a WALL like Blissey or Skarmory due to it's many weaknesses, but it can force switches and provide team support, something that yours greatly needs.

As to your answer about Starmie from earlier:
Quote:

You know that Starmie is begging for Life Orb and probably max speed too. Bulky Starmie hasn't been good since the rise of offensive DD Gyarados and Yache/CB Garchomp. You might as well run the Life Orb EVs and item since the set works best with that really. Bulky Starmie can't counter Gyarados anyways so you might as well put the opponent on their heals and whatnot.
Chomp shouldn't be considered in the OU metagame since it's uber, and Starmie has no business being a dragon counter anyway..

And Starmie can come in on three of Gyarados moves with little/no damage (DD, Ice Fang, Waterfall) and survive the fourth (Earthquake/Stone Edge).

Will it always force a switch or KO? It's situational. Some might say "Starmie will get destroyed if it has a DD or two up", but the same can be said about almost ANY Pokemon who sets up a DD/SD/NP/Calm Mind twice. Really, defensive Starmie isn't about how many Pokemon it can take down, but how it can help your team, and with something as fragile as yours is, it'll help a great deal.

EDIT: I apologize to the OP, since I realized that the quote about Starmie isn't coming from him.

Anti January 3rd, 2009 5:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomspot555 (Post 4250235)
As to your answer about Starmie from earlier:
Chomp shouldn't be considered in the OU metagame since it's uber, and Starmie has no business being a dragon counter anyway..

I know, I was saying that one Garchomp started carrying Yacvhe Berry, Starmie could no longer switch into it successfully, and that realluy began to mark the decline of the set.

And Starmie can come in on three of Gyarados moves with little/no damage (DD, Ice Fang, Waterfall) and survive the fourth (Earthquake/Stone Edge).

A +1 DD LO Stone Edge or Earthquake rips through Starmie like tissue paper, especially with SR down. At full health, Starmie beats it, even taking SR, but Starmie isn't always going to be at full health and hoping that it will be is a terrible way to stop the second best Dragon Dancer in standard play.

Will it always force a switch or KO? It's situational. Some might say "Starmie will get destroyed if it has a DD or two up", but the same can be said about almost ANY Pokemon who sets up a DD/SD/NP/Calm Mind twice. Really, defensive Starmie isn't about how many Pokemon it can take down, but how it can help your team, and with something as fragile as yours is, it'll help a great deal.

It really is though. The whole point of a defensive pokemon is to stop sweepers from ripping your team apart. If it can't do that, what is it good for? Everything Starmie used to counter easily runs it over now, or in Garchomp's case, could run it over and then was banned.

EDIT: I apologize to the OP, since I realized that the quote about Starmie isn't coming from him.

Defensive Starmie doesn't work anymore. It's basically only useful to Rapid Spin and counter MixApe, the latter being accomplished by LO Starmie as well. Honestly, the set with Reflect is much better than the standard Spinner though. It's not Obistall anymore - things hit HARD. Defensive Starmie can't actually stop much at all.

Also, Return >>> Double-Edge on Staraptor because the recoil sucks and Brave Bird handles most of what Double-Edge would anyways, bar electrics which Return still hammers.

Keyaki January 3rd, 2009 6:39 PM

Quote:

Poor lead. Bulky leads won't care about the damage, except T-Tar who'll switch out, and glass cannon/suicide leads will set up then KO on their first attack.

Use the Anti-lead sets for Ambipom, Weavile, or Infernape instead.

*sigh* Yea i know that, its already been stated a number of times already

Quote:

You can't have the same move on a Pokemon twice
i'll fix that

Quote:

HP. HP Electric seems to be the cool thing to use for Gyarados, but HP Grass can be used for Swampert, or HP Dragon for Kingdra.
HP never worked for me

randomspot555 January 3rd, 2009 6:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4250492)
*sigh* Yea i know that, its already been stated a number of times already

Understood. However, I didn't see an edit for it, and I tend to only rate what's in the first post, not what may or may not be edited into it based on responses. Nothing wrong with some re-enforcement though, right?

i'll fix that

If you decide to keep it Banded, U-Turn is good to switch on. It can also absorb an Ice Beam aimed for sTaraptor.

HP never worked for me

As a Wi-Fi exclusive player, I completely understand. It is a PAIN to breed for specific IVs to get a halfway decent HP typing AND with good power AND with a good nature. Unfortunately, Vaporeon's moves are otherwise kind of limited. Outside of HP, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam/Blizzard, and Icy Wind are your only other options for Vaporeon, as far as offense goes.

Replies in bolded quote.

Saw your edit to Scizor. If you're going to keep the Band on, ditch Swords Dance for Pursuit.

xcthulhux January 4th, 2009 1:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4250038)
i'll change that, looks good to me too, though U-Turn doesn't seem that strong of a STAB though, same with Bullet Punch :/

think about them this way.
u-turn is basically a way to trick people.
bring the scizor out on a slow wall (like blissey) use u-turn, and then bring out something like a swampert or in your case starmie, to let it use flamethrower on.
people never see it coming.
bullet punch is an amazing stab for CB scizor because it for 1 is priority, and for 2, scizor has technician.
with bp's base (40)+stab(20)=60+technician(30), that would equal a 90 base power attack with priority.
now think about that, and add scizor's massive attack PLUS the choice band, and you have got a move that does up to 297 damage to standard tyranitar, WITH PRIORITY.
i think that is an amazing move right there.

i still say to teach the starmie rapid spin. you need a good spinner to back up your starpator, because most teams DO use SR support nowadays.

you don't have to listen to me lol
just trying to help!

NINJA EDIT: I agree with the others that NPmixape will not lead well.
because you are using the standard priority abusing scizor set (please change SD to pursuit) you might want to lead with that instead, and for godsakes, shove a focus sash on that infernape LOL
CB scizor leads very well, especially with all the aerodactyl leads, it OHKO's leftovers aero with B-Punch, and 2hko's with focus sash, and then if you have a chance, you can bring in your starmie and rapid spin.
just a thought.

Keyaki January 5th, 2009 1:57 PM

Quote:

Unfortunately, Vaporeon's moves are otherwise kind of limited. Outside of HP, Shadow Ball, Ice Beam/Blizzard, and Icy Wind are your only other options for Vaporeon, as far as offense goes.
lol, i know i know alright i'll switch back to Starmie

Quote:

with bp's base (40)+stab(20)=60+technician(30), that would equal a 90 base power attack with priority.
now think about that, and add scizor's massive attack PLUS the choice band, and you have got a move that does up to 297 damage to standard tyranitar, WITH PRIORITY.
i think that is an amazing move right there.
Damn! thats strong
Quote:

I agree with the others that NPmixape will not lead well.
because you are using the standard priority abusing scizor set (please change SD to pursuit) you might want to lead with that instead, and for godsakes, shove a focus sash on that infernape LOL
I know i know, the set on Infernape won't work well, i don't intend on using him as lead,

uh..........no Life Orb is fine on Infernape

Quote:

CB scizor leads very well, especially with all the aerodactyl leads, it OHKO's leftovers aero with B-Punch, and 2hko's with focus sash, and then if you have a chance, you can bring in your starmie and rapid spin.
just a thought.
Okay, then i'll try CB Scizor

Alright randomspot, since you recommended Starmie, you gotta set for me?


Quote:

EDIT:

Saw your edit to Scizor. If you're going to keep the Band on, ditch Swords Dance for Pursuit.
I answer with this:
Quote:

think about them this way.
u-turn is basically a way to trick people.
bring the scizor out on a slow wall (like blissey) use u-turn, and then bring out something like a swampert or in your case starmie, to let it use flamethrower on.
people never see it coming.
bullet punch is an amazing stab for CB scizor because it for 1 is priority, and for 2, scizor has technician.
with bp's base (40)+stab(20)=60+technician(30), that would equal a 90 base power attack with priority.
now think about that, and add scizor's massive attack PLUS the choice band, and you have got a move that does up to 297 damage to standard tyranitar, WITH PRIORITY.
i think that is an amazing move right there.

T-tar January 7th, 2009 5:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4221990)
After asking related- questions and with help from Platinum i think i finally got my team fro Wifi Platinum metagame!

Advice and concerns are welcome,kthx



[email protected] Life Orb
Naiive Nature
24Att/252SpAtt/232Spd

Flamethrower
Grass Knot
Nasty Plot
Close Combat

Pretty much the Mixed Sweeper of the whole team. Able to take on those Bulky Water types, the heavier the are,the harder they fall, lol espically with Life Orb and Nasty Plot. Close Combat is pretty much for everything in between, and Flamethrower, you know where thats going.

Why a Mixape lead? Most other leads outspeed you and OHKO and even if you do survive and get a hit in, they'll be packing a Focus Sash. It'll just be a waste. Go with Standard leadape.

[email protected] Band
Adamant Nature
252Att/252Spd/6HP

Brave Bird
Close Combat
U-Turn
Return

Choice-Bander,Physical Sweeper and maybe

They do say that Staraptor is a great Choice Bander, especially with 2 powerful STABs along with Choice Band. Same as with Infernape, Close Combat is for everything else and U-Turn is mainly a "utility", letting Staraptor get a attack in before pulling out.

OK, nothing wrong I guess.

[email protected] Specs
Modest Nature
252SpAtt/252Spd/6HP

Aura Sphere
Dark Pulse
Dragon Pulse
Vaccum Wave

The Special Sweeper of the team, able to take on a whole bunch of different threats, tried this set-up in Shoddy and it really worked against both a Gengar and Dusknoir.

Go with Timid, then you can use a lure strategy and try to bring out Scizor's counters and take them out. HP Rock > Dragon Pulse though. Dragon Pulse nets you coverage against OU Dragons but....which one's are you going to be able to outrun? HP Rock lets you hit Zapdos and Gyarados harder.

[email protected] Band
Adamant Nature
6HP/252Atk/252Spd

U-Turn
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
Brick Break

Why Swords dance on a Bander? You'll just be locked into it. A Swords Dancer set does make a better late game sweeper too and it's not walled by Hippowdon and other Bulky Grounds like CBer is.


[email protected] undecided
Nature: undecided
EV: undecided

Rapid Spin
Reflect
undecided
undecided


Bulky Starmie is hardly useful anymore with Rotom-A around. Offensive Starmie can be a good revenge killer.

[email protected] Orb
Timid Nature
4 HP/252SpAtt/252Spd

Will-o-Wisp
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Thunderbolt

I replaced Hypnosis with Will-o-Wisp to help cripple

Why not make this your lead and change Will-o-wisp to Trick and run a Scarf? Trick also gives you a way to combat Blissey. Outside of Explosion of course.


Suggestions are in bold.

Keyaki January 8th, 2009 2:55 PM

Quote:

Why a Mixape lead? Most other leads outspeed you and OHKO and even if you do survive and get a hit in, they'll be packing a Focus Sash. It'll just be a waste. Go with Standard leadape.
ugh, i already said that wasn't gonna be the lead!, Scizor is

Infernape is my Mixed Sweeper!

Quote:

HP Rock lets you hit Zapdos and Gyarados harder.
HP never works for me,

Quote:

Why Swords dance on a Bander?
You got something better? i got a few resources that tells that set is a powerful set

Quote:

Bulky Starmie is hardly useful anymore with Rotom-A around. Offensive Starmie can be a good revenge killer.
Well i need something to get rid of SR

Quote:

Why not make this your lead and change Will-o-wisp to Trick and run a Scarf? Trick also gives you a way to combat Blissey.
I'll change that

Dark Azelf January 8th, 2009 3:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyaki (Post 4262968)



You got something better? i got a few resources that tells that set is a powerful set


You do realize that once you use swords dance on what is a choice set you cannot attack right ? You are stuck in SD, hence the name "choice" you choose your attack. Who ever told you/is your resource for saying Swords Dance as good on a choice user set, to put it nicely is quite frankly a retard =/.

Use Pursuit or Night Slash.

Keyaki January 12th, 2009 3:19 PM

Yea alright, I'll use Pursuit

Keyaki January 17th, 2009 2:22 PM

Sorry to bump but i just wanna finalize this team, i wanna make sure if there is anything else

This my team so far:


http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/scizor.png
[email protected] Band
Adamant Nature
6HP/252Atk/252Spd

U-Turn
Pursuit
Bullet Punch
Brick Break

Lead of the team, should be able to get rid of Aeros and their Stealth Rock leads

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/infernape.png

[email protected] Life Orb
Naiive Nature
24Att/252SpAtt/232Spd

Flamethrower
Grass Knot
Nasty Plot
Close Combat

Pretty much the Mixed Sweeper of the whole team. Able to take on those Bulky Water types, the heavier the are,the harder they fall, lol espically with Life Orb and Nasty Plot. Close Combat is pretty much for everything in between, and Flamethrower, you know where thats going.

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/staraptor.png

[email protected] Band
Adamant Nature
252Att/252Spd/6HP

Brave Bird
Close Combat
U-Turn
Return

Choice-Bander,Physical Sweeper

They do say that Staraptor is a great Choice Bander, especially with 2 powerful STABs along with Choice Band. Same as with Infernape, Close Combat is for everything else and U-Turn is mainly a "utility", letting Staraptor get a attack in before pulling out.

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/lucario.png
[email protected] Specs
Modest Nature
252SpAtt/252Spd/6HP

Aura Sphere
Dark Pulse
Dragon Pulse
Vaccum Wave

The Special Sweeper of the team, able to take on a whole bunch of different threats, tried this set-up in Shoddy and it really worked against both a Gengar and Dusknoir.



http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/starmie.png

Starmie @Flame Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 136 HP/ 156 Def/ 216 Spe
Nature: Timid
~ Thunderbolt
~ Surf
~Trick
~ Rapid Spin

I needed a good Water Pokemon, i wanted to use Floatzel but its not that strong yet so 'ill have to go with Starmie, since SR is a popular move in the OU and since i do have a Flying type, I'm gonna need something with Staraptor. And Trick with Flame Orb after another of Pokemon faints, sounds devilish /gg

http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/gengar.png
[email protected] Specs
Timid Nature
4 HP/252SpAtt/252Spd

Trick
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Thunderbolt

I replaced Hypnosis with Trick to help cripple, hopefully help counter against Gyara


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