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Alter Ego March 30th, 2007 7:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostweaver (Post 2427101)
Kinetic Soldier's 2000 is not "a little bit of attack increase" =x

If you're playing steamroid, then i'll rather play exiled force except that it can be in defense mode... you "may" run over the dragon, but only if traps don't stop you. Exiled Force is pretty hard to stop, and it can even blow up monarch. Steamroid can technically do it more than once, but how do you live with 1300 attack power except against Spy and Sangan...

As for the amazons, it's the *amazon archer* that's doing the work (amazing card), and that thing is a trap card =x The panda got pierce, so its effect is not solely attack boost then.

You only said 'Any cards whose only effect is to boost attack by a bit', you never specified what 'a bit' is (Or even if it's a small or large bit). Anyhow, while it's true that Amazon Archers is doing the heavy lifting, Amazoness Paladin is a usable card, a rare find among amazons (After all, Paladin is the only one of them besides Unfriendly who isn't run over by Hydrogeddon) and it's always at least 1800 Atk since the Paladin counts herself for the effect, which, considering the metagame, isn't too shabby. Point taken about Steamroid. I usually bypassed that by either sapping good old roid for a bit of damage with Limiter Removal or using Kurogane to exchange it for a Rat or some other utility monster from my graveyard (Sometimes both). But do remember, you can always use the Roid as bait to play Supercharge (Preferably in multiple copies) or cover it with stuff like Sakuretsu or Rush. It's not like this would be the first case of covering a defensively weak monster's arse. :3

Also, on the subject of Atk-increase only: Gren Maju and Golden Homonculus, anyone? It's technically just a 'bit' of Atk increase done a lot of times.

Frostweaver March 30th, 2007 7:31 AM

Paladin = not-vanilla vanilla >>; can't even use Justibreak with it. It's unsearchable by rat cause its attack power is actually "too high."

If we have to use amazons, rather go for the chainmaster and the swordie. Nothing can go wrong with stealing monarchs from the hand, and the swordie is just mini burn damage yet has the highest power possible with rat.

If we're talking about roid deck, then you have to play 2 steamroid not cause it's good, but really cause you got no choice (3 sub, 3 drill and 3 gyroid are given, but 9 is probably a bit too little...)

Golden Homunculus and Gren Maju Gazett are both sadly useless... if we want something big out of the removed pile, why don't we just fuse them for super swar >>; YGO got serious lack of foresight, really.

Alter Ego March 30th, 2007 8:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostweaver (Post 2427118)
Paladin = not-vanilla vanilla >>; can't even use Justibreak with it. It's unsearchable by rat cause its attack power is actually "too high."

If we have to use amazons, rather go for the chainmaster and the swordie. Nothing can go wrong with stealing monarchs from the hand, and the swordie is just mini burn damage yet has the highest power possible with rat.

If we're talking about roid deck, then you have to play 2 steamroid not cause it's good, but really cause you got no choice (3 sub, 3 drill and 3 gyroid are given, but 9 is probably a bit too little...)

Golden Homunculus and Gren Maju Gazett are both sadly useless... if we want something big out of the removed pile, why don't we just fuse them for super swar >>; YGO got serious lack of foresight, really.

Ho-hum, the argument of logistics on Paladin seems kind of iffy. So it doesn't come out with rat, does it really matter that much when it's a Warrior type and can easily be fetched by Reinforcement anyway? Rat will have plenty to do with Swordie, Chain, and the plethora of Earth-based utility monsters that will undoubtedly be haunting the deck anyway. On the vanilla but not vanilla argument, Justi-Break is a very, VERY picky card so labeling a card trash for not being compatible with it is kind of meh. Amazoness Paladin works because it is compatible with Amazon Archers, something which can't be said for most of the better warriors out there, but is strong enough to deal with stuff like Hydro without having to burn away at support cards that would be better off saved for pulling of a slaughter with Amazon Archers later on.

On the roids...yeah, until the nifty ones (like Stealth and Express) get released they're pretty much stuck. Nyu, if only Ambulanceroid and Rescueroid didn't have such sissy stats they could actually be useful. Still, Steamroid can be pretty beatsticky as long as it gets a clear shot. Not the best, but hey, it's a vehicroid. What did you expect? xP

Also...Homunculus weak? With three of your cards removed from play it's strong enough to beat the snot out of Jinzo, Phoenix (doubly screwed if it gets removed out of PB's and CoH's range) and the Monarchs, which - basically - means that it can grapple all but a few select monsters around. Also, because Homunculus (unlike Fusion) runs no risk of being abused by your opponent it allows for some more reckless removal methods like Macro-Cosmos or Banisher-backed Card Destruction or Morhping Jar. Plus, it's a bit of muscle to add beside the already formidable D.D.Survivor. Gren Maju sort of accomplishes the same at a slower pace and at any rate they're certainly no Elemental Hero Avian. Besides, large-scale removal is getting pretty easy with Card Trooper and the like skulking about (Trooper + Cosmos = 2000 Atk and Def to Gren Maju), and you could always clear the field with Chaos End and then swing for high damage with Gren Maju. Tricky to use properly? Yes, but not really useless since the potential damage is humungous. It could also be used as a sort of in-between card while loading up the removed from play pile for a fusion or return.

Frostweaver March 30th, 2007 1:56 PM

If we look at other monsters with the 1800 label, Paladin have to compete against powerhouses like D. D. Survivor, D. D. Assailant, Slate Warrior, Kycoo and the likes... Compare to these effect monsters, Paladin is pretty identical to a vanilla that can't use vanilla support =( Attack power in this game is now easily remedied by Shrink. Gadgets will keep running into monarchs, cause there's always shrink to backup. Enemy Controller flip everything ot the weak defensive side so even a rat level of attack can destroy plenty of stuff. With these two quickplay spell easily accessed, attack power isn't as problematic as before.

As we see from SJC, the more special summon the better. YGO sort of took a backtrack and only allow 2 main type of decks: those who score OTK (be it Demise, or just a sudden dimension fusion swarm to get the damage) or totally defensive (tribute monarchs over and over again to pick off CA until it's like a +4, or gadgets). If amazon decks want to even survive at all, they need some sort of answer to keep up the field presence against your standard "2 monster per round" due to Six Samurai, Malicious or cyber dragon. Being searched by rat is vitally important then to keep up the field presence. Give it a shot. Try "double toolbox." Warriors? Great. Also compatible with another special summon? Better.

If Homunculus isn't a darn tribute (with lower attack power to balance it), then I'm totally with you. Problem is that he's stuck as a tribute. Then the standards raised to be 2400 atk power, which Homunculus can only suicide against with 3 monsters. Before you get the 3 monsters, Homunculus is as bad as tributing for Dark World. it's situational because you need to wait, and all situational cards that can't get *big* reward (like, enough to turn the tables, or just win) really aren't so friendly with the metagame right now. If we want big tribute monsters, then Great Maju Gazette is a better choice. Even if you tribute a 1500 monster, you got 3000 atk already which golden homunculus cannot get until 5 monsters.

Using Dimensional Fissure or Macro Cosmos actually turn out to be destructive for this pile of gold... the best way to reduce its situational status is to pull it out from the deck with Shining Angel so you don't pay for the tribute. Sadly, Angel pulls by being sent to the graveyard >>; Either you tribute for the bucket of gold which you wonder why aren't you just playing Zaborg to get it over with instead of attacking a mysterious facedown who may blow up your monster, or you'll have to backtrack to only Skull Lair as your removal engine. Speaking of Skull Lair which removes like 4+ monsters on every go, why don't we just Dimension Fusion right now instead of waiting for gold boy to build up >>;

Gren Maju was far more usable with Gravity Bind and Level Limit Area B... its effect sucks, but its very low level status totally makes up for it. Even if your attack isn't high enough yet (which may and usually happen to homunculus), you got the stall to sit around until you got the attack power. It's also darn friendly with Chaos Necromancer who's also super low level. Sadly, lack of these two cards ruin its day.


YGO swarm really really fast, and demands consistency really, really badly because there's no cost and you just throw everything out there. With that in mind, a card needs to be useful *now,* or it got some awesome reward that's enough to end the game in one or two blows.

Forci Stikane March 31st, 2007 6:44 AM

Dark Magician Girl a "novelty"? ...I have to disagree with that. With the release of Magician's Circle a while back it suddenly becomes a lot better. Then toss out a Sage's Stone to follow up with a big enough beatstick to run over unassisted Jinzo/Monarch. Of course, that's about all it can do until DM's Tomb of Black Magic comes out...

Amazoness is just a more specific form of Warrior, really...removes some of the more "useful" Warrior monsters to fit with the Amazoness theme...as for Paladin herself, the idea of a 1800-2200 ATK monster searchable by Reinforcement and without any really negative effects is rather appealing...but with so many other cards that can do better faster, it's just overshadowed.

Frostweaver, it's true that Homunculus is weak on its own, but you can always use it with RftDD. As long as you don't have a Decree to worry about, bring it out with Angel, THEN use Macro Cosmos/Dimensional Fissure. Dump a bunch of cards, then swing with Homunculus for damage. The only real threat to it backfield-wise is Mirror Force right now...so just follow up with RftDD during your Battle Phase, bring him right back with some friends, and GG.

Frostweaver April 4th, 2007 8:42 PM

Sage Stone is a dead draw until then... I think that direct summon with Magical Dimension, or Skilled Dark Magician for Dark Magician will be far better >>; if we want situational spell cards for Dark Magician, why not just ancient rule >>;

Icha speaks my mind about attack boosting cards... When Card Trooper can self-pump to 1900 (which Paladin needs another amazon monster to do) and replace itself upon death... just no. Paladin just needed more effects than a small attack boost that relies on swarming yet the deck can't swarm well.

That's exactly my point... then why don't we just use RftDD and only to begin with >>; Not like the pile of gold got its own removal engine like Ninja boy, or some sort of protection like Duo Magiste. (really, they should've combined those 2 cards together... use Duo's effect, and Homunculus's base stats, then we're talking)


Either way, an old new card (oxymoron ftw)


SD09-JP001
Super Conductor Tyranno
Light/Dino/8/3300/1400
Sacrifice a monster from your field to do 1000 damage to opponent. This effect can only be activated once
per turn. Also, when you activate this effect, this monster cannot declare attack that turn.
Ultra Rare

(hm, no good pictures that's bigger than 100x100 for this card o.O)

Alter Ego April 15th, 2007 2:50 AM

Well, theoretically Homunculus could swing hard and fast with Reasoning/Monster Gate + Cosmos. But yeah, not as fast or reliable as some of the other ones about. Still, I wouldn't go as far as to call it worthless. I mean, just look at the 'worst card ever' thread. xD

Agreeing about DMG, though. Skilled is a top-notch non-tribute beatstick who can bring the Dark Magician out with the aid of any three spell cards whereas Dark Magician Girl is a horribly underpowered one-tribute who needs a completely situational spell card to do the same. That 2000 Atk isn't really that glorious, especially since spellcasters have many convenient special summons up their sleeves with stuff like Magician's Circle and Magic Dimension.

Anyway, Superconductor Tyranno is cool, not so much for its ability (Although I guess it could have some situational use) as for its stats. A perfect target for Fossil Excavation, I'd say. Besides, with Ultra Evolution Pill and what have you it shouldn't be too hard to get out. :3

Baker's Bulbasaur May 16th, 2007 4:39 PM

Didn't really read any of the posts before this lol, but out of curiousity, have any of you heard of the deck named DDT?

Frostweaver May 16th, 2007 9:28 PM

One has to live in a YGO Closet to not know DDT... O_o; But I've been busy lately and haven't really kept up with the OCG. The OCG usually succeeds in giving one of its decktype to America. DDT is a direct copy from the OCG except that the TCG does not have Golden Chest of Sealing (It was one of the major contributing factor to magician of faith's ban in Japan, but it got merits to why it's banned in TCG as well.)

So yes... going to the OCG decktypes usually reveal some insights about the TCG Future.

Baker's Bulbasaur May 17th, 2007 2:02 AM

You never know lol.

I was just interested to know so I could tell if any yugi players on here are anywhere near a professional level or if it was just newbies.

Forci Stikane May 17th, 2007 5:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baker's Bulbasaur (Post 2483854)
You never know lol.

I was just interested to know so I could tell if any yugi players on here are anywhere near a professional level or if it was just newbies.

Underhanded little...

There's an easier way to tell: intelligence of posts. If you had actually looked at some of the other posts in this thread you could tell who's more on a professional level and who's a newbie. Especially since the last few posts were coming from just three users...

ANYWAY...enough of the off-topicness. I demand a new card! (*has no pics*)

Frostweaver May 17th, 2007 7:01 AM

http://www.yugioh-cards.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/sd8/huge/SD8-EN027.jpg

And you got your new card.

Baker's Bulbasaur May 17th, 2007 9:19 AM

[QUOTE=Ichaste Pekoni;2483998]There's an easier way to tell: intelligence of posts. If you had actually looked at some of the other posts in this thread you could tell who's more on a professional level and who's a newbie. QUOTE]

Intelligence of posts means nothing, some could just be quoting things they've read from other pros, and anyone can talk a big game if they know the rules, but that doesn't show real intelligence of the game mmmmk?


Anyway Ive just built 3 different ideas for Destiny hero themed decks and was wondering if anyone else had one they'd like to post so I can see if anyone here has any ideas similar to mine.

Frostweaver May 17th, 2007 9:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baker's Bulbasaur (Post 2484184)

Intelligence of posts means nothing, some could just be quoting things they've read from other pros, and anyone can talk a big game if they know the rules, but that doesn't show real intelligence of the game mmmmk?

Anyway Ive just built 3 different ideas for Destiny hero themed decks and was wondering if anyone else had one they'd like to post so I can see if anyone here has any ideas similar to mine.

I doubt that pros hide in caves to isolate themselves from all other players... "pros" often interact with one another and chat about their own ideas and views on how good cards are, and their opinions on other things in the game. Perhaps the only things that they do not share is their decklist and their chosen tech cards for a tourney (but will certainly talk about it afterwards, especially in those interviews ^^)

Pretty hard not to quote if I do agree with somethings... and I'll not quote only if I do disagree on something...

As for 2nd thing, no I don't have any destiny hero deck, or know of any other than DDT actually. Usually it's more like some typical cookie cutter, but integrated some DHero card into it, but never destiny hero as the backbone...

Forci Stikane May 17th, 2007 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baker's Bulbasaur (Post 2484184)
Intelligence of posts means nothing, some could just be quoting things they've read from other pros, and anyone can talk a big game if they know the rules, but that doesn't show real intelligence of the game mmmmk?


Anyway Ive just built 3 different ideas for Destiny hero themed decks and was wondering if anyone else had one they'd like to post so I can see if anyone here has any ideas similar to mine.

...Pretty hard to just be quoting "pros" when you're discussing the use of a particular card that came up. And how would knowledge of the rules, how the cards work, and different strategies not show intelligence? I dunno, looks to me more like you're trying to get information off of us under the guise of being a "pro", but then again that's no business of mine. This thread isn't the place to do it, though, as this is more for discussion of individual cards. Speaking of which...

......Uh...that one, Frostweaver, really? Alright...

Another card specifically for Harpies. Can be useful for quick swarming revival, but only for a few monsters. Probably best used for quick tribute fodder or a monster wall, but won't hold for long. Even without the discarding cost CotH would be better. On the other hand, if you happen to discard a Harpie...that's the equivalent of a quick Special Summon from your hand plus one or two (or three if one happens to be Harpie Queen) from your Graveyard for free. Still situational, and you're better off using something like Flying Kamakiri to get out your Harpies.

Frostweaver May 17th, 2007 10:56 AM

Actually, heard that Harpie got an OTK because of Hysteric Party, thus why I'm posting.

Harpy Queen is still Harpie Lady in the graveyard. Technically, it can swarm up to all 5 slots, or more realistically then 3 like what you've said. Harpie Lady 1's effect all stacks, so a sudden burst of Harpies are formidable. To finish the combo off, Harpie Hunting Ground will totally wipe out the opponent's backfield with Hysteric Party (also, Harpie Hunting Ground will be a fast way to send Harpy Queen to the graveyard immediately.)

Yes... even Harpie got an OTK now. What's this world coming to o_o

Forci Stikane May 17th, 2007 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostweaver (Post 2484256)
Actually, heard that Harpie got an OTK because of Hysteric Party, thus why I'm posting.

Harpy Queen is still Harpie Lady in the graveyard. Technically, it can swarm up to all 5 slots, or more realistically then 3 like what you've said. Harpie Lady 1's effect all stacks, so a sudden burst of Harpies are formidable. To finish the combo off, Harpie Hunting Ground will totally wipe out the opponent's backfield with Hysteric Party (also, Harpie Hunting Ground will be a fast way to send Harpy Queen to the graveyard immediately.)

Yes... even Harpie got an OTK now. What's this world coming to o_o

O.O...

THE APOCALYPSE IS UPON US!!!!!!

Seriously, though, it would work for an OTK, but it would almost require having all three Harpie Queens (keeping in mind here that, apparently, all of the Harpie clones count as "Harpie Lady" even when deckbuilding...unless that ruling has changed and I just don't know it)...You could help a bit by using their effect to get out the Hunting Ground, but not much.

All they need now is their own version of Reinforcement of the Army...

Frostweaver May 17th, 2007 12:16 PM

You can use 3 Harpie Lady 1 and 3 Harpy Queen. Harpy Queen is Harpie Lady only in field *and graveyard.* Harpie Queen can self-ditch to the graveyard, and it's nothing new on how to get Harpie Lady 1 out asap... Card Trooper is your standard self-mill ftw~

The hunting ground is just there so even Harpie Queen can go to the graveyard faster... nuking the backrow is icing on the cake. Of course if the OTK fails, tribute something for Raiza. Oh, I did mention how everything here except maybe Flying Kaminari is Icarus Attack-friendly right o.o;

Baker's Bulbasaur May 17th, 2007 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichaste Pekoni (Post 2484247)
...Pretty hard to just be quoting "pros" when you're discussing the use of a particular card that came up. And how would knowledge of the rules, how the cards work, and different strategies not show intelligence? I dunno, looks to me more like you're trying to get information off of us under the guise of being a "pro", but then again that's no business of mine.

Ok uuum all I did was make a simple post saying that I was curious into the forum's Yugimon players and it would appear that people are attempting to bite my head off...

AS for your idea of me posing as a pro to get information, i speak quite unarrogantly when I say theres nothing anyone could tell related to yugioh that's worth knowing that I don't already know, I merely showed interest in what sort of yugi players there are on the board and I have been recieved with instant attacks, but nevermind eh...

Forci Stikane May 17th, 2007 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baker's Bulbasaur (Post 2484415)
Ok uuum all I did was make a simple post saying that I was curious into the forum's Yugimon players and it would appear that people are attempting to bite my head off...

AS for your idea of me posing as a pro to get information, i speak quite unarrogantly when I say theres nothing anyone could tell related to yugioh that's worth knowing that I don't already know, I merely showed interest in what sort of yugi players there are on the board and I have been recieved with instant attacks, but nevermind eh...

I'm not trying to bite your head off. It just seemed...suspicious, that's all, since the only posts you've made in this area were 1. to ask if anyone knew what DDT was and 2. to ask if anyone had a decklist for a Destiny Hero deck, neither of which actually would belong in this thread. I apologize if you took it the wrong way, but you really should contribute to the topic...like so:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostweaver
You can use 3 Harpie Lady 1 and 3 Harpy Queen. Harpy Queen is Harpie Lady only in field *and graveyard.* Harpie Queen can self-ditch to the graveyard, and it's nothing new on how to get Harpie Lady 1 out asap... Card Trooper is your standard self-mill ftw~

The hunting ground is just there so even Harpie Queen can go to the graveyard faster... nuking the backrow is icing on the cake. Of course if the OTK fails, tribute something for Raiza. Oh, I did mention how everything here except maybe Flying Kaminari is Icarus Attack-friendly right o.o;

I know Harpie Queen's an exception, but I meant that you couldn't do, say, 3 Harpie Lady #1 and two Cyber Harpies. Of course, not sure why you would want to (maybe if you didn't have any Harpie Queens). And Card Trooper's mill power goes without saying, no?

Harpie's Hunting Ground is also there for not only the extra power boost (1000 total...not much, but can be enough) but also Twister bait if your opponent is either inexperienced or paranoid. And if I were to try this OTK I would certainly want a Decree backup in case my opponent decides to destroy Hysteric Party just as I try to attack them.



(curse YGO Abridged for associating the word Harpie with that disease!)

Baker's Bulbasaur May 17th, 2007 4:04 PM

Yeah it's cool dude, I guess I can see where you were coming from.

And yeah I will do soon enough ^_^

Frostweaver May 17th, 2007 9:08 PM

Actually, I want to move on to another card just because it answers one of Baker's question, probably. I think that I can guess out his "Destiny Hero deck idea."


http://i2.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/9d/89/04fe_1_b.JPG

Meet Disc Commander, the heart and center card of the "hand advandage through the roof enough to make even DDT raise an eyebrow": Perfect Circle Monarch!

(somehow I still think of it as more monarch than d-hero though...)

Forci Stikane May 18th, 2007 6:19 AM

Yeah, I can easily see why...the probleim is that you need a way to consistently Special Summon it to REALLY get the abuse. And, correct me if I'm wrong (I'll admit to not quite being up-to-par on all the STON & FOTB cards), but methods to trigger its effect are limited to Premature Burial, Call of the Haunted, Destiny Hero-Dreadmaster and Destiny Hero-Captain Tenacious, which are either one-shot or too situational to be reliable. It's an excellent choice for instant tribute, I'll grant that, but otherwise it's lacking quite a bit.

EDIT Oh, wait, I forgot about The Shallow Grave...yeah, definite evil combining that with Granmarg.

Frostweaver May 18th, 2007 6:36 AM

Actually, it's currently near invincible among tier 1.5-1 O_O

Because within your list of special summon, you forgot Destiny Hero Fear Monger. Every time fear monger gets rammed or suicide rams into something, it's a Pot of Greed next turn... Premature Burial, The Warrior Returning Alive and Call of the Haunted keeps Fear Monger and Disc Commander going. If you feel up to it, there's always Elemental Hero Ocean who also revives Disc Commander for more pot of greed to go.

Destiny Hero Malicious and Destiny Draw adds to the drawing power of the entire combo, making it the Perfect Circle Monarch deck for its total synergy of destiny draw and disc commander, both of which basically makes a lot of cards into pot of greed.

Forci Stikane May 18th, 2007 7:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostweaver (Post 2485597)
Because within your list of special summon, you forgot Destiny Hero Fear Monger.

...D'OH! I knew there was probably something missing, but I thought that I had missed a Spell Card or something >.> ...yeah, it goes without saying that something like that would be hard to beat.

All of these decks coming out with high draw power now (DDT, Perfect Circle Monarch) makes me think that Protector of the Sanctuary might see more action in the future...

Shadow-of-the-apocalypse July 8th, 2007 4:50 PM

right very nice good work :D

Ullion July 17th, 2007 4:06 PM

Hey guys, I still play YGO cards once and a while with my one friend. I want to know (in your opinion's) if these three cards are good to have in my deck (which mainly consists of magic/trap cards).

-Secret Barrel

-Roulette Barrel

-Needle Wall

Frostweaver July 17th, 2007 9:04 PM

Secret Barrel and Roulette Barrel are really pointless... Secret Barrel is good but needs dedicated burn or chain strike to very well. You can tech secret barrel I guess since everyone is going on card frenzy with perfect circle and "T-Hero" and other drawing variants... roulette barrel is just no unless character joey wheeler deck.

Needle wall is far better as tech against 6 samurai... only they swarm that fast and that bad (Crystal Beast just bounce to the backrow, which is where the problem is anyway. Best to try to beat Rainbow Ruins and the backrow cards against Crystal Beast instead of the beasts themselves.) I don't recommand maindecking needle wall...

Marauding Master September 7th, 2007 3:25 PM

Both three cards suck. The best tech agaisnt Samurai is Needle Ceiling. However Samurai shouldn't be too much of a problem once you live through the first swarm. A good Samurai player will launch at least 2 more though so control is of the essence. Don't label Samurais bad though, they are exceptionally strong this format.

Crystal Beasts just fails though. I never had a problem beating it.

Frostweaver September 8th, 2007 5:54 PM

I don't think samurai will really exceed 3 out at the same time unless they are going for the last attack. Needle Ceiling is nice, and probably lightning vortex works too. Samurai usually buffs up against these "no brainer" defense though.

Crystal Beasts have their strong points and that's the massive swarm suddenly. The only thing they are really lacking is probably brute force attack power, and how none of them can take down Cyber Dragon. In this format though, their backrow is (purposely) clogged and spells are no longer a reliable way for monster destruction, the deck is severely weakened...

Marauding Master September 8th, 2007 5:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostweaver (Post 2864863)
I don't think samurai will really exceed 3 out at the same time unless they are going for the last attack. Needle Ceiling is nice, and probably lightning vortex works too. Samurai usually buffs up against these "no brainer" defense though.

Crystal Beasts have their strong points and that's the massive swarm suddenly. The only thing they are really lacking is probably brute force attack power, and how none of them can take down Cyber Dragon. In this format though, their backrow is (purposely) clogged and spells are no longer a reliable way for monster destruction, the deck is severely weakened...

You have no Samurai tournament experience. It's usually at 4, sometimes 5 to finish. One being in defense usually.

Frostweaver September 8th, 2007 6:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marauding Master (Post 2864877)
You have no Samurai tournament experience. It's usually at 4, sometimes 5 to finish. One being in defense usually.

Yeahhh i think that was a keyword in the sentence /swt
I did say unless they cleared backrow (or, mirror force got used already) or going to end it right...?

True that I got no tourney experience, because I'm far too cheap to buy cards for a children's card game ^^ (gogo DS)

Marauding Master September 8th, 2007 6:47 PM

Most people attack despite the chance of Mirror Force. Which usually works out because 1 in 40 is a hard draw.

Dogar The Brave October 29th, 2007 6:18 AM

my turn|!!!||||
 
Well.. I shall pick my a certain card that I can't remember the name of.. it let boosts your life points by 1000 each turn

Frostweaver October 29th, 2007 8:12 AM

Whatever card it is, if recovering 1000 LP is its only effect, I'm pretty sure that it gets a 1/5 already >>; It sounds like a continuous spell, which is bad. It doesn't seem to do anything but recover 1000 LP, which is also bad too.

Alter Ego October 29th, 2007 10:21 AM

Actually, there's no Continuous Spell that gives you 1000 LP a turn. The only one with an effect that does that per turn is (eww) Spirit of the Breeze, which is, I'm sure we can all agree, the epitome of suck. Anyways, to get back to the topic of this thread...how about this one?

Dark Bribe
Counter Trap

Negate the activation and effect of an opponent’s Spell or Trap Card and destroy it. Your opponent draws 1 card.


Trust me, if I had an image of this it would be here. But as it is, you'll just have to settle for the effect, that one should be correct though. x3 Anyway, thoughts on this semi-new addition to S/T negation? ^.^

Forci Stikane October 29th, 2007 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alter Ego (Post 3029623)
Actually, there's no Continuous Spell that gives you 1000 LP a turn. The only one with an effect that does that per turn is (eww) Spirit of the Breeze, which is, I'm sure we can all agree, the epitome of suck.

Considering the person who posted that is pretty much new...yeah.

Anyways, to get back to the topic of this thread...how about this one?

Dark Bribe
Counter Trap

Negate the activation and effect of an opponent’s Spell or Trap Card and destroy it. Your opponent draws 1 card.


Trust me, if I had an image of this it would be here. But as it is, you'll just have to settle for the effect, that one should be correct though. x3 Anyway, thoughts on this semi-new addition to S/T negation? ^.^

(eBay works wonders for images, if anyone wants to see it.)

My first reaction is either "APPROPRIATE!!" or "RAIZA!!!!", but I suppose those are pretty obvious. Well, those rogue mill/burn decks that hang around would definitely love this card, and Protector of the Sanctuary seems to suddenly have another protection made just for it. It would definitely work in a pinch, but if your CA is low and your opponent's deck is built/shuffled well enough, then it might end up giving your opponent something even worse to smack you with (LOL DMoC/Monarch).

Overall, however, a pretty good card for a no-cost negation and just a draw that could very likely be worth less than the negated card. 4/5

Frostweaver October 29th, 2007 11:31 AM

Burn Paradise. If you got skill drain out, then your backrow is immune to everything but spells and traps. On wait, this card is made to negate spells and traps. With 3 Solemn Judgment and 3 of this, best of luck breaking through skill drain+stall. Decks that use this will not ever, ever care about CA.

This makes things a lot worse... You really got no chance to stop skill drain stall burn anymore with 6 counter trap to protect it once it's out. The only way to defeat it is to be faster than it. Dark Bribe's only "drawback" is that it has its moments of being a dead-draw, cause it's not very good until the setup is all complete.


Dark Bribe is not measured in CA, but tempo. Dark Bribe is to Magic Drain like Jinzo is to Mobius. Jinzo has no CA advantage while Mobius does, but Jinzo gives you the tempo to push as long as it's out. Magic Drain balances CA out much better than Dark Bribe can, but Dark Bribe slows down the opponent's tempo to stop pushes. Magic Drain can only slow tempo if the opponent is willing to sacrifice another spell card to lose CA in order to regain tempo.

This entire format is about tempo... we have mass swarming, double summons, and everything that's less and less about CA and more about if you have the momentum. Dark Bribe is the new momentum card for stall related decks.

Forci Stikane October 29th, 2007 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostweaver (Post 3029785)
Dark Bribe is not measured in CA, but tempo. Dark Bribe is to Magic Drain like Jinzo is to Mobius. Jinzo has no CA advantage while Mobius does, but Jinzo gives you the tempo to push as long as it's out. Magic Drain balances CA out much better than Dark Bribe can, but Dark Bribe slows down the opponent's tempo to stop pushes. Magic Drain can only slow tempo if the opponent is willing to sacrifice another spell card to lose CA in order to regain tempo.

This entire format is about tempo... we have mass swarming, double summons, and everything that's less and less about CA and more about if you have the momentum. Dark Bribe is the new momentum card for stall related decks.

Right. However, that's where Dark Bribe has its problems. Here's an example:

-You set out Mirror Force & Dark Bribe, then summon a random monster.
-Your opponent goes, plays Fissure, summons Gene-Warped Warwolf, then plays Heavy Storm to try to get rid of your backfield.
-You activate Dark Bribe, knowing that you're going to need MF in a minute.
-Dark Bribe goes through and negates Heavy Storm, and your opponent draws their card.
-Unfortunately, that drawn card turns out to be Double Summon, which your opponent uses to toss out Breaker, promptly destroying your set card anyway. Now you have TWO monsters getting ready to smack you.

See? The momentum was actually assisted a bit. Granted, that situation is somewhat situational, but you get my point, right?

Frostweaver October 29th, 2007 1:53 PM

I don't see why Mirror Force needs protection in that example though... A player invests the minimal amount needed if Heavy Storm isn't played yet for the back field. Mirror Force alone, should destroy all the monsters attacking, so I personally won't set another back row with Mirror Force unless the other back row can be chained for other purposes, like scapegoat or something.

That example is more about the power of double summon rather than the lack of power for Dark Bribe too~ That situation can occur with or without dark bribe, and the keycard there is actually the double summon (which is another -1 CA but increase tempo card.)

Marauding Master November 5th, 2007 12:19 PM

No one plays Double Summon. No one plays Gene-Warped Warwolf.

Scarlet Weather November 5th, 2007 2:21 PM

And who are you, to know all this? Just because you haven't played anyone who uses Double Summon doesn't mean it ain't usable. Anyway, support your replies with more then a generality and maybe I'll listen.

As for use of Double Summon, I don't know why the heck a swarm deck would pass it up. Samurai doesn't have to have Grandmaster in the opening hand now in order to plunk down a two-man team, and its chances of doing so increase on the first move. As for Gene-Warped Warwolf, the point wasn't the monster played but the situation: Dark Bribe negates heavy storm but opponent pulls a card to blow it away anyways, which happened to be the double summon that called Breaker to the field. Silly Marauding Master. XD

Alright, now to talk about a certain favorite semi-nomi of mine: the Yubel line. Any possible uses seen?

Yubel
Monster/Dark/Fiend/Effect/10*
Atk 0000/Def 0000
This card is not destroyed by battle. If this face-up Attack Position card is attacked by your opponent's monster, inflict damage equal to the ATK of the attacking monster to your opponent. All Battle Damage to this card's controller that they take from a battle involving this card becomes 0. During your End Phase, this card is destroyed, unless you Tribute 1 monster you control. If this card is destroyed by an effect other than its own, you can Special Summon 1 "Yubel - Das Abscheuliche Ritter" from your hand, Deck or Graveyard.

Hmm... might have made an error with the card text there. So anyway, can you see this monster line being used? Yubel itself is a bit lackluster though it has wonderful synergy with Staunch Defender, or whatever that card is that forces all of your opponent's monsters to attack your card, and the added bonus of being able to call out Ritter, who basically nukes everything else at the end of the turn, and Das Extremer Trauren after that, who kills the opponent's monster no matter what it is and Flame Wingmans them in the bargain. Can anyone see a deck being built using this monster, or is it to be relegated to the depths of nomi?

Edit: Wow, you still need three monsters to get Yubel out if you want to attack more then once with it, but I'm impressed. Apparently, you only need two tributes as opposed to three, and it's got no restrictions on special summoning. Oopsies. 0_o

Forci Stikane November 5th, 2007 2:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostweaver (Post 3030233)
I don't see why Mirror Force needs protection in that example though... A player invests the minimal amount needed if Heavy Storm isn't played yet for the back field. Mirror Force alone, should destroy all the monsters attacking, so I personally won't set another back row with Mirror Force unless the other back row can be chained for other purposes, like scapegoat or something.

That example is more about the power of double summon rather than the lack of power for Dark Bribe too~ That situation can occur with or without dark bribe, and the keycard there is actually the double summon (which is another -1 CA but increase tempo card.)

*headdesk*

That was just meant as an example of how Dark Bribe can come back to hurt you. If somebody like me can think of a situation like that so fast, just imagine what could happen in a real-life tournament.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marauding Master (Post 3051823)
No one plays Double Summon. No one plays Gene-Warped Warwolf.

No one cares about your clearly-faulty opinion. *points at above & at ACC-M's post*

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACC-M (Post 3052196)
Alright, now to talk about a certain favorite semi-nomi of mine: the Yubel line. Any possible uses seen?

Yubel
Atk 0000/Def 0000
This monster cannot be normal summoned except by offering three monsters as tributes. This monster cannot be special summoned. This monster is not destroyed by battle. Any battle damage from a battle involving this monster is inflicted to your opponent. Once per turn, tribute one monster on your side of the field. If you do not, this monster is destroyed. If this monster is destroyed by an effect other then its own, special summon one "Yubel Das Absheuliche Ritter" from your hand or deck.

Hmm... might have made an error with the card text there. So anyway, can you see this monster line being used? Yubel itself is a bit lackluster (though it has wonderful synergy with Staunch Defender, or whatever that card is that forces all of your opponent's monsters to attack your card) and the added bonus of being able to call out Ritter, who basically nukes everything else at the end of the turn, and Das Extremer Trauren after that, who kills the opponent's monster no matter what it is and Flame Wingmans them in the bargain. Can anyone see a deck being built using this monster, or is it to be relegated to the depths of nomi?

...It might not matter much in this case, but can we get the top-line stats (Level, Type, Attribute), please?

Anyway, yes I can see it getting played in its own deck. Granted, it's severe Skill Drain and/or Fissure bait, but there are also charms in tossing an opponent's Cyber Dragon back at them. The only trick might be the three monsters, but as you kind of pointed out, decks like Six Samurai can swarm more than well enough.

Frostweaver November 5th, 2007 3:38 PM

True that nobody plays double summon right now though, because recursion can usually swarm just as well but it doesn't cost so much in terms of CA. I'm still firmly gripped to the belief that double summon has untapped potential, just like how it took Skill Drain that many years to finally be part of a metagame-defining deck.

Normal monster is also (imho) untapped potential, with more and more powerful normal monster support every set. It's true that currently nobody plays it because it's not an insect and that Demise is not as fast as zombies, not to mention lack of metamorphosis for Cyber Twin, but still... Normal monster beatdown will probably consider Gene Warped Warwolf, when one is finally made.

(I actually wanted a normal monster beatdown, but I headdesked myself when I realize Gogiga Gagagigo is not in WC07 x_X)

Scarlet Weather November 5th, 2007 4:30 PM

Normal monster Beatstick needs a bit more help then what it's got. Closest you can get would be Neos Revival or something like that, I suppose. Ah well, back to Yubel.

Anyway, I went back and checked the card text. Turns out Yubel is a lot more usable then I originally thought- there's no three-tribute requirement, and no restriction on special summons. As far as that goes, it means we now have a Tomato-searchable monster that thrives off of Scapegoat and swarming, as well as having the added bonus of summoning something even nastier when it gets nuked by card effect. Yessir, this monster is fun to play with. *evil laugh*

Frostweaver November 5th, 2007 6:08 PM

Of course soul exchange/enemy controller tributing, or just swapping it with a turtle are totally legit ways to kill it too XD; But either way, it depends on what he pulls and what other cards come out with that set... afterall, the OCG may produce new cards that turn out to make fun of Yubel horribly in the same set (or whatever promos we don't know of) XD;

Marauding Master November 5th, 2007 6:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACC-M (Post 3052196)
And who are you, to know all this? Just because you haven't played anyone who uses Double Summon doesn't mean it ain't usable. Anyway, support your replies with more then a generality and maybe I'll listen.

As for use of Double Summon, I don't know why the heck a swarm deck would pass it up. Samurai doesn't have to have Grandmaster in the opening hand now in order to plunk down a two-man team, and its chances of doing so increase on the first move. As for Gene-Warped Warwolf, the point wasn't the monster played but the situation: Dark Bribe negates heavy storm but opponent pulls a card to blow it away anyways, which happened to be the double summon that called Breaker to the field. Silly Marauding Master. XD

Alright, now to talk about a certain favorite semi-nomi of mine: the Yubel line. Any possible uses seen?

Yubel
Monster/Dark/Fiend/Effect/10*
Atk 0000/Def 0000
This card is not destroyed by battle. If this face-up Attack Position card is attacked by your opponent's monster, inflict damage equal to the ATK of the attacking monster to your opponent. All Battle Damage to this card's controller that they take from a battle involving this card becomes 0. During your End Phase, this card is destroyed, unless you Tribute 1 monster you control. If this card is destroyed by an effect other than its own, you can Special Summon 1 "Yubel - Das Abscheuliche Ritter" from your hand, Deck or Graveyard.

Hmm... might have made an error with the card text there. So anyway, can you see this monster line being used? Yubel itself is a bit lackluster though it has wonderful synergy with Staunch Defender, or whatever that card is that forces all of your opponent's monsters to attack your card, and the added bonus of being able to call out Ritter, who basically nukes everything else at the end of the turn, and Das Extremer Trauren after that, who kills the opponent's monster no matter what it is and Flame Wingmans them in the bargain. Can anyone see a deck being built using this monster, or is it to be relegated to the depths of nomi?

Edit: Wow, you still need three monsters to get Yubel out if you want to attack more then once with it, but I'm impressed. Apparently, you only need two tributes as opposed to three, and it's got no restrictions on special summoning. Oopsies. 0_o

No one (Who's good anyway) will play Double Summon because it gives you a -1 for an extra summon who'll usually end up being more for the opponent to work with. Not to mention it's a bad topdeck. I wouldn't recommend it in any tier 1 deck.

Dark Bribe is very good. Because the decks it will usually be played in are Skillburn decks and the chance of drawing another backrowkiller with Bribe is relatively low. In which case you'll have Solemns. I've tested a skillburn deck with 2 Bribes and they come in real handy most of the time. Think of as much situations as you want to but I still went like 60-8 with that deck.

On to Yubel. I think it's a good control card and a good stall card but I don't think the set will bring to a tier 1 deck. Personally I'm holding out for Dark Nephthys.

Which leads to:

Dark Nephthys
Monster/Dark/Winged-Beast/Effect/8*
ATK: 2400/DEF: 1600

When there are 3 or more DARK monsters in your Graveyard, by removing 2 of them from play, send this card from your hand to the Graveyard. When sent to the Graveyard by this effect, during your next Standby Phase, Special Summon this card from your Graveyard. When this card is successfully Special Summoned, destroy 1 Spell or Trap Card on the field.

The OCG is already steamrolling over this card. It's definitely the best 'corrupted' monster of the Phantom Darkness set.

Scarlet Weather November 5th, 2007 6:21 PM

Heh. I'm personally holding out like Frosty. It'll take time for Double Summon to come into its own, but I'm sure that once it does it'll make waves like Skill Drain. Eventually.

As for tier one, Yubel is basically hate for recursion, IMO, because playing Yubel doesn't revolve around CA. In fact, the more your opponent has, the better, since Yubel will likely be playing cards that force attacks from other monsters. Your opponent can control all the zombies in the world, and Yubel will still be able to nuke them all. Six Samurai will be a bit of a problem with Enishi, but presuming you can keep him off the field Yubel will be able to make fun of Zanji, at the very least, since the minute your opponent destroys it they not only give you a monster without a pesky upkeep requirement, they also basically place in your hands a continuous black hole. I think Yubel's real value lies in its ability to deal massive damage when comboed with Staunch Defender and its ability to replace itself. As for whether it makes tier one, like Frosty said, we don't know what else comes out in regards to support. (Though I'm slightly less pessimistic, since there'll probably be at least a few Yubel supports in there, as it is the star of the set.)

Marauding Master November 5th, 2007 6:30 PM

Maybe, but I can see a lot of inconsistency as well. The TCG is currently in full Aggro where, if they can't kill your monster, they'll spin your monster. As well as Decrees against Stauch, Smashing, Fissure, Exiled, DDWL, etc.

I think there will be a few decks that use this card(But not the higher-ups), especially dark ones who will become tier 1 in some form, can use this effectively with Tomato.

Forci Stikane November 5th, 2007 6:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marauding Master (Post 3053173)
No one (Who's good anyway) will play Double Summon because it gives you a -1 for an extra summon who'll usually end up being more for the opponent to work with. Not to mention it's a bad topdeck. I wouldn't recommend it in any tier 1 deck.

Mobius, Zaborg, Raiza, Thestalos, Breaker, Marshmallon, Jinzo, Samurai, and pretty much every Tribute out there. As far as I recall, most of *those* are also bad topdecks.

Frostweaver brought up the idea of tempo earlier, and that's exactly what's going on here. Skill Drain doesn't actually give any CA, either, but it's still used, isn't it?


Dark Bribe is very good. Because the decks it will usually be played in are Skillburn decks and the chance of drawing another backrowkiller with Bribe is relatively low. In which case you'll have Solemns. I've tested a skillburn deck with 2 Bribes and they come in real handy most of the time. Think of as much situations as you want to but I still went like 60-8 with that deck.

If you have Solemn Judgement down, then, uh...why not just use it to negate the card in the first place!!!?????? DUH. In that case, you don't even have to worry about what your opponent drew because they won't draw anything. >_>; Oh, and that record (as if it's for real) can't exactly be credited to two cards...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marauding Master (Post 3053230)
Maybe, but I can see a lot of inconsistency as well. The TCG is currently in full Aggro where, if they can't kill your monster, they'll spin your monster. As well as Decrees against Stauch, Smashing, Fissure, Exiled, DDWL, etc.

*points at Yubel's effect in its entirety* Smashing, Fissure, & Exiled only help you and DDWL will still be met with damage before removing.

Marauding Master November 5th, 2007 7:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichaste Pekoni (Post 3053276)
If you have Solemn Judgement down, then, uh...why not just use it to negate the card in the first place!!!?????? DUH. In that case, you don't even have to worry about what your opponent drew because they won't draw anything. >_>; Oh, and that record (as if it's for real) can't exactly be credited to two cards...



*points at Yubel's effect in its entirety* Smashing, Fissure, & Exiled only help you and DDWL will still be met with damage before removing.

If you run the other dead topdecksmonsters, yes then Smashing would only help you, yes.

And good players go Double Dutch with two counters. Of course you'll use Bribe first. What if exiled hits, allowing his 3stars to slip under my Gbind, for example. Or even worse, imagine LaDD or Des Wombat. You need the Solemn much more than Bribe.

Forci Stikane November 5th, 2007 8:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marauding Master (Post 3053316)
If you run the other dead topdecksmonsters, yes then Smashing would only help you, yes.

ANY Tribute monster is a dead topdeck without anything to tribute for it, so stop using that as an excuse. ...Besides, the chances of Smashing hitting Yubel are actually pretty low, it having 0 DEF and all...

And good players go Double Dutch with two counters. Of course you'll use Bribe first. What if exiled hits, allowing his 3stars to slip under my Gbind, for example. Or even worse, imagine LaDD or Des Wombat. You need the Solemn much more than Bribe.

If that's the card they draw due to Bribe, then you're still paying the Life Points one way or another. At least activating Solemn on the original card gives you a turn to draw into & set another one...or something even worse for your opponent. Oh, and LaDD is about as difficult to get out in the first place as Yubel's other forms (and certainly just as bad of a topdeck), and just one negation puts it at weaker than Monarch/Jinzo, at which point it gets killed and you have to get rid of ALL your played cards for what will probably be a useless monster.

.......By the way, Exiled is 4 stars, not 3. I think that any good player would know that...

Frostweaver November 5th, 2007 8:53 PM

What is LaDD? ^_^;;;

Actually Yubel being hit by Smashing Ground is reasonably high because of its own effect of eating monsters on its own side of the field to maintain itself. More often than not, unless there is tokens of some kind or CotH/Premature, it is alone and thus, fissure and smashing ground will both target the same thing.

Indeed you want to use Dark Bribe first if you have the option to choose which to activate. In a usual deck, there are more monsters than there are spells that can destroy the back row. Solemn the Jinzo/Mobius/Mei kei (more than 2/40) (whatever that name is... I actually got a question about it. If Skill Drain is out already, you can't activate his ability right?), and leave the Bribe to handle the heavy storm/MST (2/40). Dark Bribe is simply not as flexible as solemn, you want to conserve the most flexible card for the worse situation to come.

Possible that Dark Bribe stops the heavy storm but draws the breaker, yes, but chance of that is sooo slim.

Forci Stikane November 5th, 2007 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostweaver (Post 3053568)
What is LaDD? ^_^;;;

Actually Yubel being hit by Smashing Ground is reasonably high because of its own effect of eating monsters on its own side of the field to maintain itself. More often than not, unless there is tokens of some kind or CotH/Premature, it is alone and thus, fissure and smashing ground will both target the same thing.

Indeed you want to use Dark Bribe first if you have the option to choose which to activate. In a usual deck, there are more monsters than there are spells that can destroy the back row. Solemn the Jinzo/Mobius/Mei kei (more than 2/40) (whatever that name is... I actually got a question about it. If Skill Drain is out already, you can't activate his ability right?), and leave the Bribe to handle the heavy storm/MST (2/40). Dark Bribe is simply not as flexible as solemn, you want to conserve the most flexible card for the worse situation to come.

Possible that Dark Bribe stops the heavy storm but draws the breaker, yes, but chance of that is sooo slim.

Light & Darkness Dragon ......I assume.

Right, right...but ideally you'll have a CotH or something (maybe even a Trap Monster) ready to sacrifice for Yubel without wasting your Normal Summon, so those can also be activated in response to Smashing to take the hit in case you indeed do NOT have the other monsters for it (although I have doubts whether or not a competitive player would use Smashing in the first place and risk it). I'm not going to argue that Fissure's going to always hit it, though.

...Well, Dark Bribe can't stop monster effects, anyway, so you don't exactly have a choice on Jinzo/Mobius. Also, may I remind you once again that that was just an example? It isn't just negating Heavy to draw into Breaker but rather negating a dangerous Spell only for your opponent to draw one just as damaging, if not worse (Shield Crush into NoC, Fissure into Vortex, etc). However, negate the first one with Solemn and not only does your opponent not draw that card, but the card under it is delayed a turn from being drawn as well, giving a sort of Raiza or Jar of Greed-like situation (depending on how you look at it).

Marauding Master November 6th, 2007 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichaste Pekoni (Post 3053553)
If that's the card they draw due to Bribe, then you're still paying the Life Points one way or another. At least activating Solemn on the original card gives you a turn to draw into & set another one...or something even worse for your opponent. Oh, and LaDD is about as difficult to get out in the first place as Yubel's other forms (and certainly just as bad of a topdeck), and just one negation puts it at weaker than Monarch/Jinzo, at which point it gets killed and you have to get rid of ALL your played cards for what will probably be a useless monster.

.......By the way, Exiled is 4 stars, not 3. I think that any good player would know that...

Lol. Useless monster? The last effect is his best one. If you've been doing it right, you'll have a Green Baboon/DMoC/Disk Commander. And yes, I wasn't referring to Exiled attacking. I was referring to him blowing up your monster defense. And it doesn't matter if you pay life points or not. It's just a case of knowing what to chain against. Would you rather not have played Bribe and let his Storm hit you?

To end my discussion on Bribes. In a lockdown deck, 3/40 is just not going to cut it. You need the Bribes to maintain presence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichaste Pekoni (Post 3053590)
Light & Darkness Dragon ......I assume.

Right, right...but ideally you'll have a CotH or something (maybe even a Trap Monster) ready to sacrifice for Yubel without wasting your Normal Summon, so those can also be activated in response to Smashing to take the hit in case you indeed do NOT have the other monsters for it (although I have doubts whether or not a competitive player would use Smashing in the first place and risk it). I'm not going to argue that Fissure's going to always hit it, though.

...Well, Dark Bribe can't stop monster effects, anyway, so you don't exactly have a choice on Jinzo/Mobius. Also, may I remind you once again that that was just an example? It isn't just negating Heavy to draw into Breaker but rather negating a dangerous Spell only for your opponent to draw one just as damaging, if not worse (Shield Crush into NoC, Fissure into Vortex, etc). However, negate the first one with Solemn and not only does your opponent not draw that card, but the card under it is delayed a turn from being drawn as well, giving a sort of Raiza or Jar of Greed-like situation (depending on how you look at it).

If you want to preserve Yubel's from Smashings then I recommend using Interdimensional Matter Transporter. And players would play Smashing on him, if not hitting him, it will at least draw out something.

Scarlet Weather November 6th, 2007 2:24 PM

Once again, I say it: Yubel will want to get killed. Also, as far as useless topdeck goes you need only run one copy of Ritter and Trauren, since both of them get called from the deck. A 2/40 means you have a maybe one in twenty chance of drawing them at all, and if you do you've always got other (albeit extremely situational) uses for them, like dumping them from the hand with Dark World Dealing or tossing them from the deck with Card Trooper in order to set up for Dark Nephtys. (Oh, how I love the corrupted monsters. XD) Anyway, I'm taking notes either way. I don't care how much of a nomi Yubel is, I'm building my deck around it when WC08 comes out. Whether I'll actually use it is another story.

Forci Stikane November 6th, 2007 3:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marauding Master (Post 3054718)
Lol. Useless monster? The last effect is his best one. If you've been doing it right, you'll have a Green Baboon/DMoC/Disk Commander.

Okay, let's run that real quick:

-I kill your LaDD with my Jinzo/Monarch.
-You Special Summon Green Baboon.

-ENEMY CONTROLLER.

-Follow up by tributing for another Jinzo/Monarch.

Really, if somebody like me can poke holes in these plans so easily...there's definitely something wrong with them.

Now, as for Yubel, the last part of the effect still stands. Either you play Smashing and you let your opponent get something worse out or you end up getting blocked.

Frostweaver November 6th, 2007 5:23 PM

I'm not going to comment on LaDD honestly because I admit that somehow I can't get that darn thing out fast enough =( I'm still toying around with it against computer duelists first (regardless of how they're technically incompetent) until I get something I'm decently satisfied with, then I'll talk about LaDD. Certainly it's going to completely influence the metagame, but the question is just how should LaDD be implemented in a deck, and what should go with it. Japanese uses all kinds of monsters to go with LaDD, even samurai (I heard of it a lot but still can't get a deck list of LaDD Samurai... it sounds absurd to me and I'll love to know how the heck does that work.)



As for Yubel, it depends... there are certainly possibilities and reasons why you'll run Yubel, but not any of the other in the same line. Raiou still walks in triplets in OCG, and its effect will just negate and destroy Yubel's attempt to summon the rest of its family. Not to mention, Stun always have the 3 Skull Descalibur too. Talking about Yubel now is really not doing much unless we're talking about OCG setting. TCG is just missing too much to be on the same level to talk about an OCG card.

Marauding Master November 6th, 2007 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichaste Pekoni (Post 3055417)
Okay, let's run that real quick:

-I kill your LaDD with my Jinzo/Monarch.
-You Special Summon Green Baboon.

-ENEMY CONTROLLER.

-Follow up by tributing for another Jinzo/Monarch.

Really, if somebody like me can poke holes in these plans so easily...there's definitely something wrong with them.

Now, as for Yubel, the last part of the effect still stands. Either you play Smashing and you let your opponent get something worse out or you end up getting blocked.

Jinzo doesn't get negated. And it's not a 'plan'. You use Disk or DMoC to get more advantage, and if you have the opening, you go for something stronger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostweaver (Post 3055752)
Japanese uses all kinds of monsters to go with LaDD, even samurai (I heard of it a lot but still can't get a deck list of LaDD Samurai... it sounds absurd to me and I'll love to know how the heck does that work.)

I'm testing Samsam-RaiDa this sunday.

Forci Stikane November 7th, 2007 3:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marauding Master (Post 3056382)
Jinzo doesn't get negated. And it's not a 'plan'. You use Disk or DMoC to get more advantage, and if you have the opening, you go for something stronger.

I didn't say it did.

That actually sounds a lot like a "plan" to me. Disk Commander gets switched into Attack mode for a hit to your LP and DMoC is a solid 2800 when EC'd. My overall point here is that LaDD's revival effect leaves your field wide open for something to hit your monster back at you, Enemy Controller being one of the bigger examples. Granted, if you're hoping for the recursion effect, you won't have that many cards out on the field (if at all), so you'll have to deal exclusively with what's in your hand (which, may I remind you, has a size limit). However, if you're topdecking, that leaves you with only a few cards to go against whatever's left over after LaDD dies. This, the two-tribute, and the impossibility of a dump/revive makes it an incredibly horrible topdeck, especially compared to something more flexible like Monarch.

Oh, and LaDD is usually going to get killed on your opponent's turn, giving them time to counter whatever you pull out. Most good players will probably have either a Fissure/Smashing that they saved or some Quick-Play in their hand, like Enemy Controller. Even if you suicide LaDD, the monster you bring out will still be vulnerable to anything your opponent had set while waiting for LaDD to die. The best you could get here would be either Disk Commander in defense, whose two cards would just negate the -2 for tributing it, or DMoC's spell right before he gets killed by something.

All in all, I'm calling LaDD not worth it right now. Most competent players will probably only let two cards MAX get negated before killing it (loses to Breaker w/counter at that point), unless of course they're trying to DDWL it, at which case that's three (I wonder how that would work, actually...would LaDD's effect still trigger if it was already determined to be destroyed in battle?). Then, the monster that comes out with its effect after nuking your entire field will be expected and almost immediately destroyed, ruining the majority of your work. The "No Special Summoning" part only makes it harder to come out. I could only see it getting teched in a Phoenix deck, if even that.

That's all I have to say on it.

Frostweaver November 7th, 2007 4:55 PM

LaDD is definitely worth the double tribute. We really need more powerful effects like that to be persuaded of double tribute summon. LaDD pays itself for every card negated, and althought you can say the usual 2400 can kill it after just after one negation, but again it's a tempo card and a lock. People may actually put out more monster out with LaDD to add to pressure. Shien, Jinzo and other continuous monster effect cards go decently well with LaDD. Afterall, the less card they can activate, then the less capable they are of lowering LaDD enough to a point of defeating it in battle.

You can still use spell/traps with LaDD out as long as you chain it after LaDD's effect too, so keep that in mind.

Indeed you can always use enemy controller (but that's a 2/40) to switch the Disc Commander from LaDD's recursion to score major damage, but then I think the LaDD player will know the potential risk and got some LP to withstand a hit or two. 2 cards are very tempting (and according to the very old CA/LP ratio a few banlists ago in the days where CA goes crazy with tsukuyomi, 2 cards worth 3000 LP.)

LaDD is definitely worth it. The challenge is who can think of the best tribute fodder setup than the others for LaDD. I don't think LaDD will win the SJC in Dec because it still needs some experience and time to be tempered with, but it will win after a few SJC just like Samurai. Samurai didn't win SJC the moment it came out, but instead a few SJC later.

Marauding Master November 7th, 2007 11:24 PM

I tried SPoN/LaDD. Doesn't work at all. I tried Beat/LaDD and it doesn't work too well either so I have only Perfect Circle, Samurai and Pure to test.

Anyway Ichaste, usually, to kill LaDD you have to go -2 or lower, while I get a +1 or +3 depending on the monster I summon. Maybe a -1 or so too if I have a good backrow card. You'll probably destroy it with attacking as well so I don't see the use of Quick-Plays if I summon my monster in defense position(Which I probably will, you can't usually hammer through Baboon or DMoC anyways. Sure you can kill the monster but if it's DMoC or Disk Commander, I already got a plus out of it anyway.

So while you're left with basically no cards. I have a 3 card minimum with Disk Commander the next turn. Not that I usually have to topdeck anyway.

I hope Gameking updates soon.

Forci Stikane November 9th, 2007 2:02 PM

......I know I said that I was done, but I did some testing with LaDD just to be fair, and I discovered one very giant loophole: Treeborn Frog. That is ALL it takes to stop LaDD's negation effect. Seriously, all you need to do is keep trying to summon Frog and LaDD will just drain itself out, making your loss actually a -0. Afterwards, Fissure/Zaborg it or something, then Brain Control whatever comes up and go for the kill...or just DDWL it and leave it at that. So,...I don't exactly call that an advantage.

If you don't believe me, Frostweaver can try it for himself to confirm it.

Marauding Master November 10th, 2007 8:45 AM

3 sidedecked D. D. Crows will do the trick.

Frostweaver November 10th, 2007 9:52 AM

2 or 3 D.D.Crow is in every sidedeck nowadays anyway... because we're still stuck in the era of recursion tricks in most decks, but mainly the zombies still. Destiny Heroes are also related of course.

Not sure if LaDD will try to negate Crow since technically Crow is never played on the field... if it does, then you'll have to be sure to chain it after LaDD's effect so it doesn't get negated.

Marauding Master November 10th, 2007 5:07 PM

It's negated, LaDD negates all (multi) triggers.

Scarlet Weather November 12th, 2007 7:31 PM

NEW CARD FTW!!!! (In America)

Knight of the End
Monster/Dark/Warrior/Effect/4*
Atk 1400/ Def 1300
When this monster is normal summoned, flip summoned, or special summoned send one dark-attribute monster from your deck to the graveyard.

Ah, Phantom of Darkness, how we adore thee. Zombie has a new method of tossing big hitters to the graveyard, methinks. To top that off, we're paving the way for new "Corrupted" monsters who take advantage of darks in the graveyard. Hooboy.

Frostweaver November 12th, 2007 10:34 PM

Besides those more obvious tricks, there's of course, the dumping of Exodia pieces to speed up the recollection from the graveyard (but this won't work due to DD Crow being everywhere lately.) There has to be other dump/revive tricks too besides zombie... Apart from that, I can't think of too many goodies to use with the free dump yet x.x; Not too many other cards need a dark monsters in the graveyard... Sky Scourges worry about the light fairy more than the dark fiend. Necrofear I guess...? o_o;

It's not coming up to my mind right now x.x;

Marauding Master November 13th, 2007 3:23 PM

Foolish Burial anyone? But this card is good. Free Disk Commander.

Frostweaver November 13th, 2007 6:18 PM

Still, like you said, it's going to be compared with foolish burial if you want disc commander... o_o; More flexible that it's still a normal monster if you already dumped everything you want to dump, while Foolish Burial may be a dead card in those situation, but Foolish Burial can send anything to the graveyard.

Haseo, the Sliver Twilight November 15th, 2007 3:51 PM

Light and Darkness Dragon... Isn't that thing at least limited? My friend keeps loking me down with THREE OF THEM!!! I hate it!!! I want one! They're such a pain... I have to waste a lot of useful cards to make it weak enough to kill.

I hate that card.

Alter Ego November 16th, 2007 5:35 AM

If you want to kill Light and Darkness just bring Treeborn Frog like Icha said. It will keep spamming its effect on the Standby Phase and just completely screws the dragon over as Treeborn can activate its effect as many times per Standby Phase as it wants, but there's a limit to how long Light and Darkness Dragon can keep negating it. (and here's the fun/cruel part: because of the way it's worded, it has to keep negating until it runs out of Atk or Def) xD It's also a once-per-chain negation, so if you chain something like Phoenix Wing Wind Blast or Raigeki Break to Light and Darkness when it tries to negate you can blow it off the field. ^^

Anyways, I don't think it's limited (at least not yet) since it can only be summoned by two tributes (no special summon games) and both its effects can bite you if you're not careful. Really, I think the question here is why the flip are you letting your opponent get into a position where they can do three two-tribute normal summons in a single duel. x.O Anyway, it's an interesting card to say the least, but I'm sort of vary of the second effect as it has the potential to completely decimate CA and field presence alike. If you haven't invested much on the field the sure, you've got your Disc Commander or whatever to enjoy, but otherwise it's a pain. (In some freaky Beast/LaDD deck, you could get both your pick of choice from the graveyard and Green Baboon if you had at least one beast out when the dragon went boom, though, but I have no idea what would make that work. xP)

Anyway, Knight of the End looks fun enough. Tomato-searchable precision dump ftw! It's just too bad that it's dark attribute only. I think I'll stick with Foolish Burial myself, because dropping down Treeborn, Dandylion and big recurrable beatsticks is fun that this card just doesn't afford me. I mean, what's it gonna' dump besides Disc Commander, Dasher, Malicious and (lawl) Necroshade or Necro Gardna? (Oh yeah, Vampire Lord and his buddies, right?) Ah well, maybe these new dark monsters that the upcoming booster is all about will answer that.

Speaking of which...Dark Nepthys could do some pretty cool things in combination with Shroud of Darkness (I think that's what it's called? Continuous Spell, let's you discard any dark monster you get on your draw phase and draw again and can be used as many times per phase as you like). Yay for mass dumping. (In a Yubel Deck it ensures that you aren't stuck with one of the nomis in your hand either)


Aaand yeah, bad topdecks are everywhere. Card of Safe Return is the epitome of crappy topdecks yet it's still run in threes because of its high synergy with zombies. Dimension Fusion sucks as a topdeck unless you have made some serious preparations. Future Fusion is a crappy topdeck no matter how you look at it. Yet all of those have been played on a competitive level. As long as the number of bad topdecks is kept in check and balanced by high-utility cards the benefits certainly outweigh the occasional bad draw. And let's face it: what deck doesn't run anything they wouldn't want to topdeck? xP

Marauding Master November 22nd, 2007 1:58 PM

http://shriek.twoday.net/stories/4457830/

Know it's not allowed, etc. But I cannot copypasta things on that site so YA.

Scarlet Weather November 25th, 2007 7:41 PM

Alright...

Warrior Lars
Monster/Earth/Warrior/Effect/4*
Atk 1600/Def 1200
When this monster is successfully normal or special summoned, select one warrior-type monster in your deck other than a "Warrior Lars" and place it on top of your deck.

In other news Exiled Force has just become insanely easy to topdeck into, as well as D.D. Assailant, D.D. Survivor, D.D. Warrior Lady, and all those other fun warrior monsters who do not have "D.D." in their names.

Seriously, I love this card. Pity you can't search it with Sangan, although that would be a bit broken. Warriors Toolbox will probably be running at least a copy or two of this guy, especially since he makes Survivor and Assailant searchable monsters.

Frostweaver November 25th, 2007 9:25 PM

Try a better version of that same card with just lower stats (aka, recruiter-able).


Deep Diver
Aqua/Effect
Lv 3/Water
1000 Atk / 1100 Def

If this card is destroyed by battle and sent to the Graveyard, at the end of the Battle Phase, select 1 monster from your Deck and place it on top of your Deck.


This is the promo card for WC2008. Fear it when it comes out.

Not restricted by warrior (who got RotA anyway... and there's no really that many good warriors that can't be searched by RotA. There's just Neo, which is sort of stretching it, and even that got E Emergency Call).

Scarlet Weather November 26th, 2007 6:29 PM

Alright, Deep Diver rocks my socks, I admit it. On the other hand, it also has to get killed by battle so Fissure can run it right over without triggering its effect. I'm also of the opinion that once the banlist runs after this thing, it might warrant a limited or semi-limited status since the search engine is way too powerful as far as recruitment goes, IMO. Traditionally, recruit has some kind of limit. This thing has none, and is in itself recruitable. I don't think it'll make it past one banlist.

Lars, on the other hand, gets props because his trick activates when he's summoned, not when he's destroyed. In a way, that makes him move faster than Diver because he sets up combos very quickly without needing to be suicidal or evil. You can plunk him down and use him as tribute fodder during the next turn. I think he may have potential.

Frostweaver November 26th, 2007 8:10 PM

Both Lars and Deep Diver have a problem I think that will make it balanced but not abusable: It's ensuring your next draw is a particular monster. Traditional recruiter gets them to the field or the hand immediately. Also, if say for some reason you got both deep diver and mother grizzly on the field. Opponent attacks diver first, and you place your card on top. Then they attack grizzly afterward, and now you special summon something and shuffles the deck. Deep Diver's effect is gone.

Now you can say, that's more of a bad play than Deep Diver's fault, but my point is that there are "restrictions" to how you can use Deep Diver. You can't expect Deep Diver to do well as long as you throw it out on the field.

Fissure being at 1, I honestly doubt that they will use Fissure on Deep Diver. It's not like Pyramid Turtle where something huge comes out immediately (along with getting a draw for Card of Safe Return) and block your next direct attack. Deep Diver casually tells the opponent and yourself, what your next draw is.

(note: I don't think low attack or high def will matter as much anymore, though they still factor for Fissure and Smashing Ground. People will start to run Soul Taker when it is out. We always used confiscation and that thing took 1000 LP to use. Why not destroy a monster and give 1000 LP to the enemy? But we'll see.)

Frostweaver December 3rd, 2007 11:37 PM

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/yugioh/images/8/8f/Red-EyesDarknessMetalDragonLE11-JP.jpg

Red Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon

This card can be Special Summoned by removing from play 1 Dragon-Type monster you control. Once per turn, you can Special Summon 1 Dragon-Type monster except "Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon" from your hand or Graveyard.



Bow down to yet another OCG tier 1 candidate! (if it's not already)

Alter Ego December 4th, 2007 12:57 AM

O.O

So like, Darkness Metal doesn't require you to summon a sucky nomi by tributing a sucky vanilla and then equip the sucky nomi with a sucky continuous trap card and tribute both to get a Magic Jammer on legs?

I'm deeply disappointed. :<

In all seriousness, this card is crazy. Screw King Dragun; we just got us the Il Blud of dragons, except that the monsters it summons aren't tied to it, it's way stronger, and it jumps onto the field in one nifty Special Summon. This + Card of Safe Return is really a no-brainer synergy. Throw in Decoy Dragon and Masked and you've also ensured that you'll always have something to summon this with if you topdeck it.

A much needed step towards dragons actually working for things other Cyberdark and five-headed. :3 I mean, LaDD is a dragon, sure, but its summoning requirements were not really built with dragons in mind. xP

Syousuke February 26th, 2008 2:27 AM

Revival?

Darknight Parshath
DARK - Level 5 - Fairy/Effect - 1900/1400
When this card destroys an opponent's monster by battle, you can remove from play 1 DARK monster in your Graveyard to draw 1 card. This card gains 100 ATK for each DARK monster in your Graveyard.

Okay, so, obviously (since I'm lame at this game), I need to know what can really be done with this card. How do you max out its usage in a deck?

Well so far, I'm aware that Armageddon, D.Grepher, D.Crusader, Foolish Burial and the like can feed this card (if someone can list more Dark cards that help him please do so). The more they feed the more ATK power it has, and it can sacrifice ATK power for draw power.

And that's pretty much all I have on this guy. Is there anymore I have to know to capitalize on using him? Or is that pretty much the jist of it. How many should be run in a deck based around him (I have no experience with mid-level monsters)?

Frostweaver February 26th, 2008 6:36 PM

I don't like it ._.

It's not bad, just overshadowed by the bigger Dark monsters. The worse part is that it suffers from what the original parshath suffered: lv 5 and no new methods to be special summoned. If you tribute summon it, it's not THAT spectacular either. By the time you reached monarch level atk at 2400, you already got 5 dark in the graveyard and that means you can really use better dark monsters like Dark Creator...

Syousuke February 26th, 2008 8:54 PM

Sigh, I was really thinking of using him since his name is cool (Darknight > Airknight IMO) and his art is cool. So he really doesn't much going for him?

Hmm. Dark Creator's a secret rare though, not sure if I could get him that easily.

lonewolfx44 February 26th, 2008 8:57 PM

The Agent of Creation - Venus
4 stat effect monster, 1600/ something defense
Hands down my favorite card ever. For each 500 life points you spend with its effect, you can special summon 1 Mystical Shine Ball from your hand or deck, even in defensive mode. They are 500/500 level 2 (i think) normal monsters. That is awesome defense and great for Tributing.

I think all cards requiring stuff being sent to the graveyard or stuff in the graveyard is useless to build your deck around. Especially against my deck with lots of Banishers and Macro Cosmos. AKA Dark World decks = .... HAHHA pwnt.

Frostweaver February 27th, 2008 12:04 PM

And what do you do if you draw the bloody shineballs >_>; However, Venus has its place in those fun decks lv 2 normal weenie rush for fun measures. With Creature Swap coming at 3 which is my favorite part of the new banlist, I don't mind more useless monsters to trade for better ones, lol.

Problem with Venus is just deckspace and can't be searched. Drawing into Shineballs suck. 1500 LP to get out 3 tribute fodders aren't that great either, since we have Metal Reflect Slime and Fiend Sanctuary (but they are darn costly IRL).


As for saying how Macro Cosmos can win against Dark Armed Dragon: not necessarily at all. Even with 3 banisher, macro cosmos and dimensional fissure, there's just issues with racing the dark armed dragon's dumping arsenal. Also, Dark Armed Dragon decks do run Escape from the Dark Dimension with Dimension Fusion/RftDD, which usually ends up with beatsticks stronger than traditional Macro Cosmos can afford.

Forci Stikane February 27th, 2008 12:11 PM

Venus is......reasonable for stall decks that might take advantage of LLAB and Gravity Bind, but there are so many other, better choices that it isn't funny. The tribute fodder part might be helpful, too, but as Frostweaver said, that's useless once you draw them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostweaver (Post 3375586)
Problem with Venus is just deckspace and can't be searched. Drawing into Shineballs suck. 1500 LP to get out 3 tribute fodders aren't that great either, since we have Metal Reflect Slime and Fiend Sanctuary (but they are darn costly IRL).

*whistles while pulled Metal Reflect Slime sits on the table nearby (only 3 packs purchased)*

Frostweaver February 27th, 2008 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichaste Pekoni

*whistles while pulled Metal Reflect Slime sits on the table nearby (only 3 packs purchased)*

Thou shall not brag unless you did that with Dark Armed Dragon and/or Dark Creator.

Forci Stikane February 27th, 2008 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frostweaver (Post 3375611)
Thou shall not brag unless you did that with Dark Armed Dragon and/or Dark Creator.

What do you think I got in the other two packs?

Fair enough.

lonewolfx44 February 27th, 2008 4:00 PM

XD I forgot to mention I use Voltanis and Shine Balls are fairies. I include 2 or 3 negate attacks (i forget) and lots of counters. o.o Other wise I wouldn't use Agent of Creation in this deck because I never even used Snatch Steal I was tight on space :P

Ah, I wanna say, I think Negate Attack is a great counter card (maybe not for the effect, but how often it usually can be activated.) Of course, Solemn Judgment can probably be activated more, but at a penalty. Anyway, Negate Attack in a counter fairy deck can keep your Bountiful Artemis drawing cards :3 or use to summon Voltanis.

Forci Stikane February 27th, 2008 4:09 PM

Without the Counter Fairies, Mirror Force >>>>> Negate Attack. Even with them, Mirror Force > Negate Attack.

lonewolfx44 February 27th, 2008 4:43 PM

Mirror force is a bit expensive though, last I check. And mirror force does not count as a Counter Trap. Can't you only have one Mirror Force? XD my budget makes me use Magic Cylinder instead of Mirror Force. :3 It is a fun thing to win by. If I had a Mirror Force, I would use it. If I had the money, I'd use it for food. u.u simple as that.

Frostweaver February 28th, 2008 12:53 AM

and that's why I am determined to only play Yugioh with the DS games =O even if they purposely miss a few cards here and there.

1000+ cards all in 40 dollars. My mirror force cost the same as Il Bud which is the same as Kuriboh. Pwnage XD;

If we take cost into account, yeah Negate Attack at 3 is a given ._.; There's hardly any useful yet cheap counter trap. Counter trap is hard to find to begin with... let alone cheap ones. (Even in a high budget deck, Negate Attack still lingers for counter fairy deck anyway though not in 3)

MegaDitto March 2nd, 2008 4:42 PM

This forum is still active?

http://www.yugioh-cards.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/tp7/huge/TP7-EN009.jpg

Frostweaver March 3rd, 2008 6:14 PM

Really, it's not a bad way to stall at all. Creature swap at 3 with this is my obvious joy in YGO game. Necessity to those dedicated NOMI. However is it splashable? Probably not, as I will prefer book of moon or enemy controller (or shrink) for some quickplay spell defense. Scapegoat stalls, but in your average deck, you maybe better off turning Dark Armed Dragon to defense mode and run over its horrid monarch-like defense next turn.

I just think that unless you can combo those tokens, it's just a stall and a short time solution in your average decks. Doesn't mean it's bad at all though.

Scarlet Weather March 21st, 2008 8:35 AM

Hmhmhm...

Allure of Darkness
Normal Spell
Draw two cards, then remove one DARK monster in your hand from play. If you do not remove a DARK monster in your hand from play, discard all cards in your hand.

Well, this here is officially part of the reason that Dark Armed Return is painful. Remove my Dark Magician of Chaos or Darklord Zerato and bring them back next turn (or even this one) with Escape from the Dark Dimension? And place them in an area where they can't be plundered by my opponent's Monster Reborn? Yes, pleaseandthankyou.

Alter Ego March 21st, 2008 10:59 AM

*Growls* This needs limited. Now. <.< Just reading through a few of the Shohen Jump feature matches was more than enough to make me royally sick of seeing the old Allure, Destiny Draw, Premature/Reborn on Disc Commander, second allure chain of plays. (or a ridiculously extended version of that which typically involves Dark Magician of Chaos, Dimension Fusion, and additional copies of Allure and Destiny Draw) >.< Normally I'm all for cards that help out Exodia, but with the way the dark attribute is distributed this card is centralizing the metagame so much it's not even funny. It's all about either finding the best way to exploit it or counteract it. Do neither and your deck is pretty much doomed from the start. Sure, it was sort of interesting reading at first, but it's getting really boring now and it's just completely overshadowing fun cards like Beginning of the End, Gigaplant, and Grinder Golem (<3 Grinder Golem, thus far the best bet for making Inferno Tempest actually work in a deck).

And while on the subject of overshadowing, how many of the dark counterpart monsters have gotten any serious spotlight beside the ever-persistent Dark Armed Dragon? Me, I'd really prefer to see this lovely little guy make it to the TCG. But then again, OCG generally seems to be hogging the best stuff. =O

Dark Simorgh
Winged Beast/Effect
7 Star/Dark
2700 Atk / 1000 Def

This card's Attribute is also treated as WIND. You can Special Summon this card from your hand by removing from play 1 DARK monster and 1 WIND monster in your Graveyard. You can Special Summon this card from your Graveyard by removing from play 1 DARK monster and 1 WIND monster in your hand. While you control this face-up card, your opponent cannot Set (or flip face-down) any cards.


Now, on its own this is already screwing over both Return and Escape, but imagine combining it with Anti-Spell Fragrance. No spells or traps for the opponent (since they'd have to set the spells to play them, which Simorgh won't allow) while simultaneously preventing any sneakiness from face-down monsters AND leaving you free to pull your own face-down shenanigans? I smell a powerful control deck here, and let me tell you, that fragrance is far more pleasant than Dark Armed's. :3

And while I'm ranting about it...

Anti-Spell Fragrance
Continuous Trap

Both players must Set Spell Cards before activating them, and cannot activate them until their next turn.


With all the discussion on how to counteract Dark Armed, I'm actually surprised that no-one has mentioned this one. The backbone of that decktype is dropping down a crazy string of 'draw two' spell cards and then pulling off all kinds of recursion abuse to swarm the field, and while Fragrance is out, the crazy tempo is crippled quite bad. No, it can't stop Diamond Dude, but it sure as heck makes opening hands of Allure and Destiny Draw far less game-breaking. At the very least, I'd say that this is a card worth consideration.

Scarlet Weather March 28th, 2008 6:03 PM

Yah, but Inferno Golem has its own hated problem with Necroface at two, because that's half the combo missing. Now on the other hand, the theoretical "Volcanic Counter Grind-burn" is so amazing that I want to play it. Three Volcanic Counters in the graveyard, special summon Grinder Golem, swing for attack with token. GG. (Now that's what I call innovative).

In terms of coolness, I think that Simorgh/Anti-fragrance is definitely one of the best combos out there. Please, let me touch it! (grabs Simorgh and holds on for dear life). Ahem... anyway, I think Spell Fragrance alone has its merits. Forcing the opponent to wait a turn before their draw engine can start is definitely something I'll be exploiting. Plus, it comboes well with a theoretical Dark Lightning-centric deck build I've been kicking around lately. Set your lightning and play anti-spell, opponent tosses down their spells, activate lightning, break one spell, and discard the monster of your choice (Preferably Gren, Tactician of Dark World or one of the Wu-Lords in order to either screw with the opponent's back row even further or bolster your field presence.)

Almost forgot!

Drastic Drop Off
Counter Trap
Activate only when your opponent draws a card(s) (including their draw phase.) Select one card and discard it.

A lot of people seem to be touting this as the latest tool for counter fairy. Myself, I think that another possible answer is...

Appropriate
Continuous Trap
You can activate this card when your opponent draws outside his/her draw phase. Each time your opponent draws cards outside of his/her draw phase, draw two cards.

Well, well, well. Exodia players should definitely be considering this card as a tech against Dark Armed Dragon. My opponent may get his little draw engine, but I'm running through my deck at the same speed he is, in fact faster because I'm not playing a single card. In games before this card was ignored because we only had Destiny Draw to worry about, but now that we have our little Dark Armed Draw Engine to worry about we can happily say "hurray for Appropriate!"

Frostweaver March 29th, 2008 11:27 AM

Problem is that if you just drop them off to the graveyard, there's a possibility how that's a card the opponent wants in the graveyard 1/3 of the time (but if you knocked off allure, that's a major victory XD). It's really not a bad card at all with Drastic Drop Off, and working with counter fairies is of course a given. Doesn't work against cosmo or samurai or magical explosion too well though... those decks simply don't draw that much.

Appropriate is more like a card to help you dig up your solutions against the dark draw engine and give you the speed to catch up to it, but the problem remains in what should we draw in our deck that can solve the problem?

But I do agree, appropriate is looking good now that 6/40 of a deck is a draw card =P Adding a copy as tech may not be bad if you got the room (I won't play more than 1 though.)

Alter Ego April 2nd, 2008 9:04 AM

Pfft...Inferno Golem don't need Necroface to win. RFG the deck then go wild with D.D. Dynamite, I say! >O (you could also run something like Dimension Wall and Magic Cylinder on the side to abuse that golem, maybe Crush Card to wipe it out after Tempest too) Meh, personally I think the biggest thing holding it back is the relatively high count of cards that don't really do anything outside of their chosen combo; it hurts consistency. >.< Cyber Valley helps that a little, but yes, as it is DaD just tramples it too fast. xP

Drastic Drop Off...is basically regualr Drop Off except better, and since I loved that one I see no reason not to feel the same way about this. And yes, Counter-Trap definitely turns it into a counter-fairy toy, much like Van D'Algyon.

Also agreeing on Appropriate's techy vallue. That could be a potential solution for digging up some of those hard-to-search DaD counters, or maybe something for the Dimension Fusion/Spell Economics/Cyber Valley loop to get off better. :3

So yeah, tech, but kind of hard to build a deck on.

Frostweaver April 3rd, 2008 12:24 AM

well seeing how the newest SJC just made a combo deck from the depths of hell that qualifies as a potential FTK (to me at least) and definitely OTK, we're now certain that appropriate is definitely just to try to get more speed but solves nothing. Against Priestess OTK, you either stop it there or you just let that deck draw all of its 30 cards to your doom.

sigh I hate allure so bloody much ._.

Alter Ego May 30th, 2008 10:40 AM

It's been a while since anything was posted here, so...

Kinkabyou
Beast/Spirit
1 Star/Dark
400 Atk / 200 Def

This card cannot be Special Summoned. This card returns to the owner's hand during the End Phase of the turn that this card is Normal Summoned or flipped face-up. When this card is Normal Summoned or flipped face-up, select 1 Level 1 monster in your Graveyard and Special Summon it. When this card leaves the field, the monster Special Summoned this way is removed from play.


Abuse your Disc Commander now Y/Y? As long as you have something to keep tributing it away for before the End Phase comes around this is an infinite draw two we're talking here. Plus, there's just got to be tons of other ways to make this thing do crazy stuff; I know it. :x


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