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wolf January 12th, 2009 6:34 PM

... - RMT
 
This is my Stall Team. I have been working on this team for a little while. Trying to make it very good at any occasion and I have tested it out on Shoddy. The log for Shoddy on this team is: 32 Wins - 4 Loses - 0 Ties. Very good I think, I tried looking at all its weaknesses and I found none, which is good. Well, here it is.

- Platinum Metagame
- Standard Tier
- WiFi, maybe Shoddy (I only used this to test it out)


Team In-Depth


http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/skarmory.png
Skarmory (F)
Item: Shed Shell
Ability: Keen Eye
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP/ 64 Atk/ 176 Def/ 16 Spe
Moveset:
~ Spikes
~ Whirlwind
~ Brave Bird
~ Roost

Notes: Spike up some, then Whirlwind away slowly damaging the team. STAB Drill Peck is for damaging, while Roost heals away the damage done to her. Shed Shell helps her leave from Magnezone easily.
---
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/arcanine.png
Arcanine (M)
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Bold
IVs: 30 SpA/ 30 SpD
EVs: 240 HP/ 168 Def/ 28 SpA/ 72 Spe
Moveset:
~ Roar
~ Will-o-Wisp
~ Hidden Power [Ground]
~ Flamethrower

Notes: Roar out Sub users and Baton Passers, which is very handy. Will-o-Wisp can be used on Physical Sweepers and can be doubled with Arcanine's Intimidate that shuts down Physical Sweepers. Hidden Power [Ground] dents Pokemon that resist Will-o-Wisp, and STAB Flamethrower does heavy damage on a lot of things.
---
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/tentacruel.png
Tentacruel (M)
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/ 120 Def/ 136 SpD
Moveset:
~ Rapid Spin
~ Toxic Spikes
~ Knock Off
~ Surf

Notes: Rapid Spin away Spikes and Stealth Rock, and set up my own Toxic Spikes. Knock Off items and such like Choice Bands, and Leftovers. STAB Surf is for necessary damaging, and Liquid Ooze helps him on a switch in if the foe is draining some HP from me.
---
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/porygon2.png
Porygon2 (N/A)
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Trace
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/ 216 Def/ 40 SpA
Moveset:
~ Thunder Wave
~ Thunderbolt
~ Recover
~ Ice Beam

Notes: Thunder Wave sweepers, and kills of Dragon Dance tyrants. Thunderbolt for Gyarados, and Ice Beam for the Dragon types. Recover away necessary damage done, and paired with Leftovers can be a killer. This can switch in on Heatran, Vaporeon and such causing them to switch out.
---
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/blissey.png
Blissey (F)
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Calm
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Def/ 252 SpD
Moveset:
~ Seismic Toss
~ Wish
~ Softboiled
~ Aromatherapy

Notes: Thunder Wave a sweeper, and it gets LOLed at. Seismic Toss is to deal damage at, and Wish passes recovery to my teammates. Softboiled is also a option so she can instantly get recovery. Aromatherapy is to recover away status effects on my team. This is the ultimate Special Wall, with its massive HP and Special Defense.
---
http://www.arkeis.com/images/pokemonfactory/machamp.png
Machamp (M)
Item: Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/ 36 Atk/ 216 Def/ 4 Spe
Moveset:
~ Ice Punch
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Dynamic Punch

Notes: Ice Punch nails Flying types in the head! STAB Dynamic Punch is the main move blistering away at anything that doesn't resist it, and comes with a Confusion bonus, plus No Guard ensures it to always hit! Stone Edge could be in, but Ice Punch is there for the PP. Rest heals the damage, then Sleep Talk for two turns, and continue attacking!
---

This team is great I think, everyone supports each other. What do you think?

Changes Made
- Switched out Suicune and placed in Porygon2
- Replaced Thunder Wave on Blissey and put in Ice Beam/ Flamethrower
- Changed Machamp's EV spread to 252 HP/ 100 Atk/ 156 Def
- Switched Bronzong out with Skarmory
- Switched Dragonite out with Tentacruel
- Switched Machamp out with Dusknoir
- Switched Dusknoir out with Rotom-Cut
- Switched Rotom-Cut out with Rotom-Heat
- Switched Rotom-Heat out with Machamp
- Changed Machamp's EV spread
- Gave Blissey Softboiled instead of Ice Beam/ Flamethrower
- Gave Skarmory Spikes, and also changed Drill Peck with Brave Bird

evilishan January 13th, 2009 3:42 PM

Really good team, though Machamp isn't really a stall type; it's more of a "Come here and let me beat you to a pulp type" Just look at it. Perfect EV distribution, will use once I get my DS unbricked.

wolf January 13th, 2009 3:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilishan (Post 4277753)
Really good team, though Machamp isn't really a stall type; it's more of a "Come here and let me beat you to a pulp type" Just look at it. Perfect EV distribution, will use once I get my DS unbricked.

Eh, kinda, Machamp is bulky since there are HP EVs used. And it is a status absorber. You can use this team, but give credit, and don't say you made the team! Because I hate steelers!

. January 13th, 2009 4:06 PM

DD Mence weak much? Nothing on your team stops it, at all. To remedy this somewhat, give Suicune Ice Beam, although even the most bulkiest Suicune is nearly OHKO'd by +1 LO Outrage.

wolf January 13th, 2009 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by . (Post 4277838)
DD Mence weak much? Nothing on your team stops it, at all. To remedy this somewhat, give Suicune Ice Beam, although even the most bulkiest Suicune is nearly OHKO'd by +1 LO Outrage.

I did notice that, but during the battles in Shoddy I never encountered a Mence. :\ I could do that, though I was thinking of taking out a member in my team and replace it with Porygon2.

Archer January 13th, 2009 4:12 PM

Okay, well you'd be better off running a bulkier set on Machamp, so I'd go with 252 HP, 152 Def, 100 Atk. Considering it's main use is to counter Tyranitar, it needs to do it well.

Two phazers seems like overkill, so I'd work on that.

Oh, HP Ice Mixapes make a mess of you, which is an issue. And if you choose not to run HP Electric on Suicune, Gyara is going to be damn hard to stop.

As for Stall Play, part of the idea is to get in Entry Hazards and force switching around. You've only got SR and on Bronzong as a lead, it's easily Taunted. Oh and you could use Arcanine as Trick Absorbtion, as they're mostly Specs and Scarf.

It's not half bad... Good work.

EDIT:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolflare (Post 4277845)
I did notice that, but during the battles in Shoddy I never encountered a Mence. :\ I could do that, though I was thinking of taking out a member in my team and replace it with Porygon2.

Well the obviously choice would be Suicune, as P2 can counter Gyarados rather well, as well as a fairly reliable Heatran switch-in. Then you really need to watch out for HP Ice Mixapes. (DNite handles NP versions with ease)

wolf January 13th, 2009 4:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 4277850)
Okay, well you'd be better off running a bulkier set on Machamp, so I'd go with 252 HP, 152 Def, 100 Atk. Considering it's main use is to counter Tyranitar, it needs to do it well.

Two phazers seems like overkill, so I'd work on that.

Oh, HP Ice Mixapes make a mess of you, which is an issue. And if you choose not to run HP Electric on Suicune, Gyara is going to be damn hard to stop.

As for Stall Play, part of the idea is to get in Entry Hazards and force switching around. You've only got SR and on Bronzong as a lead, it's easily Taunted. Oh and you could use Arcanine as Trick Absorbtion, as they're mostly Specs and Scarf.

It's not half bad... Good work.

EDIT:


Well the obviously choice would be Suicune, as P2 can counter Gyarados rather well, as well as a fairly reliable Heatran switch-in. Then you really need to watch out for HP Ice Mixapes. (DNite handles NP versions with ease)

K, I am going to put in P2 in place of Suicune, and take out TW on Blissey and put Ice Beam. Hmmm... I will think about a HP [Ice] Mixape counter... Also, I will change the Machamp EVs.~

Spiritombreeder January 13th, 2009 11:54 PM

I don't see why arcanine is there, especially in a stall team. Its weak to SR, plus hp ground won't really be hitting wowers (you can't touch ghosts because of levitate and what you can hit flamethrower hits harder). Plus intimidate won't be doing much if your phazing. Fire is a bad defensive type too. I'd say to just go to swampert.

better yet, skarmory > bronzong on first spot running spikes/ww/drill peck/roost
Tentacruel does wonders over swampert even. You have skarm phazing and tentacruel for spin and toxic spikes.

. January 14th, 2009 4:38 AM

You could replace Arcanine with Heatran, who isn't Stealth Rock weak and can somewhat soak up hits from MixMence and Specsmence.

Heatran @ Leftovers / Shed Shell
Calm
248 HP / 56 SpA / 204 SpD
-Lava Plume
-Earth Power
-Rest
-Sleep Talk / Stealth Rock

Shed Shell is for escaping Zone, though he can't OHKO you without HP Ground. Stealth Rock if you replace Bronzong for Skarm, since Blissey has Aromtherapy.

Dark Azelf January 14th, 2009 5:08 AM

Guys i hope you realise how well Arcanine walls Mixape - 1 (Intimidate) LO Close Combat (its most powerfull attack vs Arcanine) does a lol 28.87% - 33.86%.

Its also one of the best Scizor counters in the game and on a team weak to Scizor its a decent choice.

In addition it always survives a DD LO EQ from mence factoring in Intimidate which is impressive and always survives a Jolly CB Dugtrio EQ WITHOUT Intimidate factored in (does ~99% max lol).

However as awesome as Bulky Arcanine is it may need replacing because of issues i will touch on in a moment because this needs alot of work. Elements of stall which are VITAL (you have a PHazer and Wish support so eh =p)

+Residual damage outside of SR (since you already have this). AKA Spikes, Toxic Spikes. Weather is optional. You need these or you will get overpowered easilly and swept.

+A Rapid Spinner. Again if they are able to spin and you cant, you are kinda screwed when they start setting up stuff.

+A ghost to block foe Rapid Spin. This is obvious and stall wins because of residual damage and getting it removed is NOT what you want.

+Perish Song (for the most part). Last poke curse lax/cune whom you cant Phaze, Ingrain baton pass chains, need i say more ?

+Something to absorb T-Spikes would be nice too.

You lack most of the above, so somehow implementing them into this team would do the world of good.

Sure its hard to do and build (hence why i favor building stall teams over building offensive teams because the latter really are easy to do and it gives me a challenge in doing so lol) but it is possible whilst at the same time accounting for threats. Keep your options open is the main advice id give you.

wolf January 14th, 2009 9:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritombreeder (Post 4278797)
I don't see why arcanine is there, especially in a stall team. Its weak to SR, plus hp ground won't really be hitting wowers (you can't touch ghosts because of levitate and what you can hit flamethrower hits harder). Plus intimidate won't be doing much if your phazing. Fire is a bad defensive type too. I'd say to just go to swampert.

better yet, skarmory > bronzong on first spot running spikes/ww/drill peck/roost
Tentacruel does wonders over swampert even. You have skarm phazing and tentacruel for spin and toxic spikes.

Yeah, but Arcanine is my fave, and I would like to use him. He is also a Infernape counter, and I have Wish support to heal away SR.

Now, that I might do, If fogot Skarm, so I might use those suggestions! ^^
Quote:

Originally Posted by . (Post 4279012)
You could replace Arcanine with Heatran, who isn't Stealth Rock weak and can somewhat soak up hits from MixMence and Specsmence.

Heatran @ Leftovers / Shed Shell
Calm
248 HP / 56 SpA / 204 SpD
-Lava Plume
-Earth Power
-Rest
-Sleep Talk / Stealth Rock

Shed Shell is for escaping Zone, though he can't OHKO you without HP Ground. Stealth Rock if you replace Bronzong for Skarm, since Blissey has Aromtherapy.

Hmm... My favorite Pokemon is Arcanine, so I would like to keep him in this one team. I might switch him out if he begins to be a pain. Thanks for the suggestions! ^___^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 4279043)
Guys i hope you realise how well Arcanine walls Mixape - 1 (Intimidate) LO Close Combat (its most powerfull attack vs Arcanine) does a lol 28.87% - 33.86%.

Its also one of the best Scizor counters in the game and on a team weak to Scizor its a decent choice.

In addition it always survives a DD LO EQ from mence factoring in Intimidate which is impressive and always survives a Jolly CB Dugtrio EQ WITHOUT Intimidate factored in (does ~99% max lol).
Yes, someone realizes that he can be VERY bulky, and he can survive an LO Earthquake from Infernape, and he can OHKO or 2HKO him with HP.

However as awesome as Bulky Arcanine is it may need replacing because of issues i will touch on in a moment because this needs alot of work. Elements of stall which are VITAL (you have a PHazer and Wish support so eh =p)

+Residual damage outside of SR (since you already have this). AKA Spikes, Toxic Spikes. Weather is optional. You need these or you will get overpowered easilly and swept.
Okay, might put in Tentacruel to cover TSpikes.

+A Rapid Spinner. Again if they are able to spin and you cant, you are kinda screwed when they start setting up stuff.
K, again Tentacruel could handle that once he is in! ^^

+A ghost to block foe Rapid Spin. This is obvious and stall wins because of residual damage and getting it removed is NOT what you want.
Hmm... I was thinking Dusknoir?

+Perish Song (for the most part). Last poke curse lax/cune whom you cant Phaze, Ingrain baton pass chains, need i say more ?
K, maybe Celebi.

+Something to absorb T-Spikes would be nice too.
Tentacruel again!

You lack most of the above, so somehow implementing them into this team would do the world of good.

Sure its hard to do and build (hence why i favor building stall teams over building offensive teams because the latter really are easy to do and it gives me a challenge in doing so lol) but it is possible whilst at the same time accounting for threats. Keep your options open is the main advice id give you.

Comments in Bold. Thankc for the suggestions!

Spiritombreeder January 14th, 2009 3:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Azelf (Post 4279043)
Guys i hope you realise how well Arcanine walls Mixape - 1 (Intimidate) LO Close Combat (its most powerfull attack vs Arcanine) does a lol 28.87% - 33.86%.

That little? My god. Although he does have Tentacruel, still that's pretty good for a non resist.

I'd use rotom (appliances) over dusknoir though, even the resttalk ones are much better since they can hit special and elementally. Plus rotom walls scizor also, leaving arcanine with no point, still. :P
If this is wifi tough luck though :P.

wolf January 14th, 2009 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritombreeder (Post 4280216)
That little? My god. Although he does have Tentacruel, still that's pretty good for a non resist.

I'd use rotom (appliances) over dusknoir though, even the resttalk ones are much better since they can hit special and elementally. Plus rotom walls scizor also, leaving arcanine with no point, still. :P
If this is wifi tough luck though :P.

Yep, that little! He rated it before I placed in Tentacruel. :O I forgot the Rotom forms since it isn't in Smogon! XD Yeah, I will try out some Rotom forms.
BTW, Arcanine is still a great DD Mence counter, and I can W-o-W a lot of Pokemon since it is very essential to a stall team.

Edit: Do any of you know a good Status Absorber Rotom Form moveset?

Spiritombreeder January 14th, 2009 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolflare (Post 4280263)
Yep, that little! He rated it before I placed in Tentacruel. :O I forgot the Rotom forms since it isn't in Smogon! XD Yeah, I will try out some Rotom forms.
BTW, Arcanine is still a great DD Mence counter, and I can W-o-W a lot of Pokemon since it is very essential to a stall team.

Edit: Do any of you know a good Status Absorber Rotom Form moveset?

Lol, I hardly use them too.

Uh, rest/sleeptalk/shadow ball/form move is usually fine. Unless you want the scarftrick set. The form move is whatever form you use, decide based on type coverage you need.

wolf January 14th, 2009 8:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritombreeder (Post 4280877)
Lol, I hardly use them too.

Uh, rest/sleeptalk/shadow ball/form move is usually fine. Unless you want the scarftrick set. The form move is whatever form you use, decide based on type coverage you need.

Thanks for the moveset, I might go with the Leaf Storm Rotom as he resists SR. Also, what is a good EV spread for that?

The Hero Without a Name January 14th, 2009 9:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolflare (Post 4280884)
Thanks for the moveset, I might go with the Leaf Storm Rotom as he resists SR. Also, what is a good EV spread for that?

Rotom doesn't resist SR.

wolf January 14th, 2009 9:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiroi Togekiss (Post 4280935)
Rotom doesn't resist SR.

Oops, I forgot that the forms don't have different types... Well, can anyone think of a good EV spread for Rest Talk Rotom (form)?

Skip Shot January 14th, 2009 9:23 PM

All the Rotom forms have the same typing, so it doesn't really matter. I recommend either Fantom, Washertom, Oventom, or Mowertom. Fantom if you want a haxy set (Air Slash/Discharge/RestTalk), Mowertom if you're scared of Pert (Same set as above, except Leaf Storm>>AirSlash), Oventom as a check to Steels and whatnot (Overheat>> Air Slash) and Washertom can hurt a lot with Hydro Pump (>> Air Slash). I'm not to keen on the set, I think its something like 252 HP/ 180 Def/ 76 Spa?

wolf January 14th, 2009 9:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sc4rfCh0mp (Post 4280948)
All the Rotom forms have the same typing, so it doesn't really matter. I recommend either Fantom, Washertom, Oventom, or Mowertom. Fantom if you want a haxy set (Air Slash/Discharge/RestTalk), Mowertom if you're scared of Pert (Same set as above, except Leaf Storm>>AirSlash), Oventom as a check to Steels and whatnot (Overheat>> Air Slash) and Washertom can hurt a lot with Hydro Pump (>> Air Slash). I'm not to keen on the set, I think its something like 252 HP/ 180 Def/ 76 Spa?

Yay! Thanks for the set! I will edit now... I am currently not good at Rotom Forms as I never used them before, plus they are a bit new...

Spiritombreeder January 14th, 2009 9:40 PM

Actually the resttalk analysis set (its in platinum updates) says 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD should right. http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1722574 if you want the link (that's the ice form though, but still they're all the same.
Its just more bulky I guess. Nature should be calm, but changing nature/EVs around is good too.

wolf January 14th, 2009 9:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spiritombreeder (Post 4280968)
Actually the resttalk analysis set (its in platinum updates) says 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD should right. http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1722574 if you want the link (that's the ice form though, but still they're all the same.
Its just more bulky I guess. Nature should be calm, but changing nature/EVs around is good too.

K, I will edit the team! Thanks for that!

Archer January 14th, 2009 11:29 PM

Cut Rotom isn't that great. Running a move for a single threat that is neither hugely common nor terribly threatening isn't very economical. Aside from the fact that Swamperts lead 90% of the time, so you have to switch in and give it a free chance to SR and switch in one of the many Grass Resists. It's not too sharp on a ResTalker either, is it? I would run Wash/Spin/Heat. Wash/Heat may are great because you can bluff your way into forcing out Scizor, Heatran, etc - even if you don't run the move. Spin has decent coverage and can be great with paralysis support from Discharge. Doesn't acheive much, though.

I say run Heatom with Discharge/HP Ice. I mean, FreezeTom with Blizzard works great with Hail support, but otherwise, it's too unreliable.
*Waits for Vance/D_A/Anti to tell me why I'm wrong...*

wolf January 15th, 2009 7:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 4281195)
Cut Rotom isn't that great. Running a move for a single threat that is neither hugely common nor terribly threatening isn't very economical. Aside from the fact that Swamperts lead 90% of the time, so you have to switch in and give it a free chance to SR and switch in one of the many Grass Resists. It's not too sharp on a ResTalker either, is it? I would run Wash/Spin/Heat. Wash/Heat may are great because you can bluff your way into forcing out Scizor, Heatran, etc - even if you don't run the move. Spin has decent coverage and can be great with paralysis support from Discharge. Doesn't acheive much, though.

I say run Heatom with Discharge/HP Ice. I mean, FreezeTom with Blizzard works great with Hail support, but otherwise, it's too unreliable.
*Waits for Vance/D_A/Anti to tell me why I'm wrong...*

Ok, I will change it to a Heatom, and do your set. I understand why Heatom over powers most! ;)

ABYAY January 15th, 2009 10:34 AM

I can definitely see CBTar giving you some problems here with Skarmory as your only "true" defense, and Stone Edge's crit chance can easily ruin that.

Throwing Reflect in somewhere can solve problems for some time, but I'm unsure. I'll let someone who has been helping modify the team give you a solution. I just point it out.

wolf January 15th, 2009 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABYAY (Post 4282020)
I can definitely see CBTar giving you some problems here with Skarmory as your only "true" defense, and Stone Edge's crit chance can easily ruin that.

Throwing Reflect in somewhere can solve problems for some time, but I'm unsure. I'll let someone who has been helping modify the team give you a solution. I just point it out.

Hmm... I was thinking of a Reflect Rotom-Heat... But, then I need a Status Absorber, although Tentacruel could Surf it out if it doesn't get OHKOed... And you do have to count SR... I can always W-o-W him with Arcanine, he might get OHKOed since it is CBed, then I can switch in either Tentacruel to do the job. Also, I could TWave him with Porygon2, and attack him with either Arcanine (HP), Tentacruel, and some others... But, thanks for spotting that out!

Archer January 15th, 2009 5:12 PM

Well, running with the stall element, you've only got a few options for TTar. ResTalk Machamp/Hariyama or Reflegross - Like CB Gross but with Leftovers and Reflect. Same EVs, although you can run it bulkier if you wish.

. January 15th, 2009 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 4283083)
Well, running with the stall element, you've only got a few options for TTar. ResTalk Machamp/Hariyama or Reflegross - Like CB Gross but with Leftovers and Reflect. Same EVs, although you can run it bulkier if you wish.

I'd like to be the first to say DON'T USE METAGROSS AS YOUR TYRANITAR COUNTER. DO NOT. Machamp is a great answer to Snorlax, Weavile, Tyranitar, Blissey, etc...

Machamp @ Leftovers
Adamant
252 HP / 36 Atk / 216 Def / 4 Spe
Dynamicpunch
Ice Punch / Stone Edge
Rest
Sleep Talk

Archer January 15th, 2009 6:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by . (Post 4283104)
I'd like to be the first to say DON'T USE METAGROSS AS YOUR TYRANITAR COUNTER. DO NOT. Machamp is a great answer to Snorlax, Weavile, Tyranitar, Blissey, etc...

Machamp @ Leftovers
Adamant
252 HP / 36 Atk / 216 Spe / 4 Spe
Dynamicpunch
Ice Punch / Stone Edge
Rest
Sleep Talk

I said it could deal with it. Bullet Punch makes short work of it. I realise it can't take too many Crunches/EQs/Fire Punches. Don't you mean 216 Def on that Machamp? Otherwise it won't do any better than Gross.

For the record, 252 HP / 104 Def Metagross cannot be 2HKOd by Crunch or OHKOd by Earthquake. Meteor Mash on the other hand, OHKOs Max HP TTar. It's not that unreliable.

wolf January 15th, 2009 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 4283083)
Well, running with the stall element, you've only got a few options for TTar. ResTalk Machamp/Hariyama or Reflegross - Like CB Gross but with Leftovers and Reflect. Same EVs, although you can run it bulkier if you wish.

Hmm... *Looks below*
Quote:

Originally Posted by . (Post 4283104)
I'd like to be the first to say DON'T USE METAGROSS AS YOUR TYRANITAR COUNTER. DO NOT. Machamp is a great answer to Snorlax, Weavile, Tyranitar, Blissey, etc...

Machamp @ Leftovers
Adamant
252 HP / 36 Atk / 216 Spe / 4 Spe
Dynamicpunch
Ice Punch / Stone Edge
Rest
Sleep Talk

Wait? I those 216 Spe EVs for Def instead, if not, then he will not survive a single hit from Tyranitar, unless a few. Other than that, and I can switch bak to him!
Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 4283279)
I said it could deal with it. Bullet Punch makes short work of it. I realise it can't take too many Crunches/EQs/Fire Punches. Don't you mean 216 Def on that Machamp? Otherwise it won't do any better than Gross.

Although, since Tyranitar is a bit bulky, and Machamp's EVs are not solely for Attack, it might not OHKO, but maybe 2HKO... Yeah, I was wondering what those EVs were for... BTW, thanks for more posts! ;)

. January 15th, 2009 6:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 4283279)
I said it could deal with it. Bullet Punch makes short work of it. I realise it can't take too many Crunches/EQs/Fire Punches. Don't you mean 216 Def on that Machamp? Otherwise it won't do any better than Gross.

Yes, 216 Def, obvious typo. And LOL @ "Bullet Punch makes short work of it". If you want a Defensive Metagross, I assume you're using 252 HP / 234 Def / 12 Spe <--- ?

306 Atk Bullet Punch vs. Max HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 25.74%-31.19%

Sure is making short work of TTar. Even if you run MAX Attack, the results aren't "making short work of him".

405 Atk Bullet Punch vs. Max HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 34.16%-40.59%

Who even runs BP on a Reflect Metagross? Anyway, get your facts straight before suggesting something to counter something.

wolf January 15th, 2009 6:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by . (Post 4283305)
Yes, 216 Def, obvious typo. And LOL @ "Bullet Punch makes short work of it". If you want a Defensive Metagross, I assume you're using 252 HP / 234 Def / 12 Spe <--- ?

306 Atk Bullet Punch vs. Max HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 25.74%-31.19%

Sure is making short work of TTar. Even if you run MAX Attack, the results aren't "making short work of him".

405 Atk Bullet Punch vs. Max HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 34.16%-40.59%

Who even runs BP on a Reflect Metagross? Anyway, get your facts straight before suggesting something to counter something.

Yeah, I knew it had to be Defense EVs. Oh, I was right, Bullet Punch doesn't do much either way!

Archer January 15th, 2009 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by . (Post 4283305)
Yes, 216 Def, obvious typo. And LOL @ "Bullet Punch makes short work of it". If you want a Defensive Metagross, I assume you're using 252 HP / 234 Def / 12 Spe <--- ?

306 Atk Bullet Punch vs. Max HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 25.74%-31.19%

Sure is making short work of TTar. Even if you run MAX Attack, the results aren't "making short work of him".

405 Atk Bullet Punch vs. Max HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 34.16%-40.59%

Who even runs BP on a Reflect Metagross? Anyway, get your facts straight before suggesting something to counter something.

CB Bullet Punch 2HKOs DDTar. The CB Set can be outpaced with 12 Spd and both are OHKOd with Meteor Mash.

This has to assume that Metagross is switched in on a Crunch. It only requires a little prediction to see whether you're going to take a Crunch or Stone Edge. If you can see a Crunch coming, switch in Skarm. I never actually said it was a "counter". It is shakey, an you'd have to tweak it, but it could work. I'll admit Bullet Punch was a stupid suggestion.

On another note, what's Hariyama like for dealing with TTar? It gets decent support options...

. January 15th, 2009 7:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 4283352)
CB Bullet Punch 2HKOs DDTar. The CB Set can be outpaced with 12 Spd and both are OHKOd with Meteor Mash.

This has to assume that Metagross is switched in on a Crunch. It only requires a little prediction to see whether you're going to take a Crunch or Stone Edge. If you can see a Crunch coming, switch in Skarm. I never actually said it was a "counter". It is shakey, an you'd have to tweak it, but it could work. I'll admit Bullet Punch was a stupid suggestion.

On another note, what's Hariyama like for dealing with TTar? It gets decent support options...

It's a check if all else, and therefore you might as well be using CB Metagross, since it does the EXACT same thing but also isn't useless as hell outside of them. Hariyama is also the best TTar counter in the game btw.

wolf January 15th, 2009 7:16 PM

Eh, CB on a Stall team isn't great, in my opinion... I think Machamp can just switch in on a Crunch, and plus with Wish support, he can take the damage. IDK if he will outspeed Tyranitar (which may not with 4 Spe EVs), he can still take a hit since he is physical wall based, and hit with a Dynamic Punch to OHKO. Hariyama is a option over Machamp, although he seems just a lower based Machamp... Here is a Rest Talk set that absorbs status:

Hariyama (M)
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
Nature: Impish
EVs: 76 HP/ 180 Atk/ 252 Def
Moveset:
~ Ice Punch
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Cross Chop/ Force Palm

Also, Metagross could fit in my team nicely if he is a Scarf Tricker?

Archer January 15th, 2009 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by . (Post 4283375)
It's a check if all else, and therefore you might as well be using CB Metagross, since it does the EXACT same thing but also isn't useless as hell outside of them. Hariyama is also the best TTar counter in the game btw.

Okay, I'll admit that I was wrong in suggesting Reflegross, but CBGross is indeed a check, albeit not perfect. It won't fit in the team well, though.

Consider Hariyama, then as you have Paralysis support with Force Palm and the option to run Thick Fat. Rest / Sleep Talk / Force Palm / Ice Punch would be the set to run, but Machamp is fine. For the record, Stone Edge may have 8 PP, but it won't lose PP when selected by Sleep Talk, so keep that in mind.

wolf January 15th, 2009 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by . (Post 4283375)
It's a check if all else, and therefore you might as well be using CB Metagross, since it does the EXACT same thing but also isn't useless as hell outside of them. Hariyama is also the best TTar counter in the game btw.

Yeah, I might stick with Machamp.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 4283404)
Okay, I'll admit that I was wrong in suggesting Reflegross, but CBGross is indeed a check, albeit not perfect. It won't fit in the team well, though.

Consider Hariyama, then as you have Paralysis support with Force Palm and the option to run Thick Fat. Rest / Sleep Talk / Force Palm / Ice Punch would be the set to run, but Machamp is fine. For the record, Stone Edge may have 8 PP, but it won't lose PP when selected by Sleep Talk, so keep that in mind.

Yeah, I already have TWave on P2, so it will almost be the same as Machamp... Machamp also gives Confusion support also, and yes, but I did a battle with one, and I ran out of PP quick with Sleep Talk...

Also, everyone, I think my team needs a Perish Songer as D_A said, it will get rid of Suicune once they are down to one Pokemon (like the looooooooooooooooooooooooooong battle against a Stockpile Rest Talk Swalot, which surprisingly good), and I have two Pokemon... And also causes a switch eventually. Here was a battle log if you are interested in skimming through about the looooong battle...:
Spoiler:
Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
DA_dramonic sent out Togekiss (lvl 100 Togekiss ?).
Wolflare sent out Bronzong (lvl 100 Bronzong).
Togekiss used Aura Sphere.
Bronzong lost 29% of its health.
Togekiss lost 10% of its health.
Bronzong used Stealth Rock.
Pointed stones float in the air around your foe's team!
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Air Slash.
It's not very effective...
Bronzong lost 20% of its health.
Togekiss lost 10% of its health.
Bronzong flinched!
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Air Slash.
It's not very effective...
Bronzong lost 19% of its health.
Togekiss lost 10% of its health.
Bronzong flinched!
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Air Slash.
It's not very effective...
Bronzong lost 20% of its health.
Togekiss lost 10% of its health.
Bronzong flinched!
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Air Slash.
It's not very effective...
Bronzong lost 20% of its health.
Togekiss lost 10% of its health.
Bronzong flinched!
Bronzong's leftovers restored its health a little!
Bronzong restored 6% of its health.
---
Togekiss used Aura Sphere.
Bronzong lost 22% of its health.
Wolflare's Bronzong fainted.
Togekiss lost 10% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Togekiss used Aura Sphere.
It's super effective!
Blissey lost 26% of its health.
Togekiss lost 10% of its health.
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
Togekiss is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Dragonite (lvl 100 Dragonite ?).
Togekiss used Extremespeed.
Dragonite lost 15% of its health.
Togekiss lost 10% of its health.
Dragonite's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dragonite restored 6% of its health.
---
Dragonite used Light Screen.
A barrier was formed!
Togekiss used Air Slash.
Dragonite lost 26% of its health.
Togekiss lost 10% of its health.
Dragonite's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dragonite restored 6% of its health.
---
Dragonite used Dragon Claw.
Togekiss lost 10% of its health.
DA_dramonic's Togekiss fainted.
Dragonite's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dragonite restored 6% of its health.
---
DA_dramonic switched in Registeel (lvl 100 Registeel).
Pointed stones dug into Registeel.
Registeel lost 6% of its health.
Wolflare switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Registeel used Thunder Wave.
Arcanine is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Registeel's leftovers restored its health a little!
Registeel restored 6% of its health.
---
Registeel used Stealth Rock.
Arcanine used Will-o-wisp.
Registeel was burned!
Registeel was hurt by its burn!
Registeel lost 12% of its health.
---
DA_dramonic switched in Espeon (lvl 100 Espeon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Espeon.
Espeon lost 12% of its health.
Wolflare switched in Suicune (lvl 100 Suicune).
Suicune is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Suicune.
Suicune lost 12% of its health.
Suicune's light screen wore off!
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
---
Espeon used Psychic.
Suicune lost 38% of its health.
Suicune used Calm Mind.
Suicune's special attack was raised.
Suicune's special defence was raised.
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
---
Espeon used Psychic.
Suicune lost 25% of its health.
Suicune used Calm Mind.
Suicune's special attack was raised.
Suicune's special defence was raised.
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
---
Espeon used Psychic.
Suicune lost 18% of its health.
Suicune's special defence was lowered.
Suicune used Roar.
DA_dramonic switched in Hitmonchan (lvl 100 Hitmonchan ?).
Pointed stones dug into Hitmonchan.
Hitmonchan lost 6% of its health.
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
---
Hitmonchan used Mach Punch.
Suicune lost 21% of its health.
Suicune used Surf.
Hitmonchan lost 74% of its health.
Suicune's leftovers restored its health a little!
Suicune restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Dragonite (lvl 100 Dragonite ?).
Pointed stones dug into Dragonite.
Dragonite lost 25% of its health.
Hitmonchan used Mach Punch.
It's not very effective...
Dragonite lost 13% of its health.
Dragonite's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dragonite restored 6% of its health.
---
Hitmonchan used Mach Punch.
It's not very effective...
Dragonite lost 15% of its health.
Dragonite used Roost.
Dragonite restored 50% of its health.
Dragonite's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dragonite restored 6% of its health.
---
Hitmonchan used Mach Punch.
It's not very effective...
Dragonite lost 15% of its health.
Dragonite used Dragon Claw.
Hitmonchan lost 20% of its health.
DA_dramonic's Hitmonchan fainted.
Dragonite's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dragonite restored 6% of its health.
---
DA_dramonic switched in Kangaskhan (lvl 100 Kangaskhan ?).
Pointed stones dug into Kangaskhan.
Kangaskhan lost 12% of its health.
Wolflare switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Arcanine's intimidate cut Kangaskhan's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Arcanine.
Arcanine lost 25% of its health.
Kangaskhan used Ice Punch.
It's not very effective...
Arcanine lost 6% of its health.
Arcanine's leftovers restored its health a little!
Arcanine restored 6% of its health.
---
DA_dramonic switched in Registeel (lvl 100 Registeel).
Pointed stones dug into Registeel.
Registeel lost 6% of its health.
Arcanine is paralysed! It can't move!
Registeel's leftovers restored its health a little!
Registeel restored 6% of its health.
Registeel was hurt by its burn!
Registeel lost 12% of its health.
Arcanine's leftovers restored its health a little!
Arcanine restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Dragonite (lvl 100 Dragonite ?).
Pointed stones dug into Dragonite.
Dragonite lost 25% of its health.
Registeel used Curse.
Registeel's speed was lowered.
Registeel's attack was raised.
Registeel's defence was raised.
Dragonite's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dragonite restored 6% of its health.
Registeel's leftovers restored its health a little!
Registeel restored 6% of its health.
Registeel was hurt by its burn!
Registeel lost 12% of its health.
---
Dragonite used Roost.
Dragonite restored 42% of its health.
Registeel used Thunder Wave.
Dragonite is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Registeel's leftovers restored its health a little!
Registeel restored 6% of its health.
Registeel was hurt by its burn!
Registeel lost 12% of its health.
---
Registeel used Curse.
Registeel's speed was lowered.
Registeel's attack was raised.
Registeel's defence was raised.
Dragonite used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Registeel lost 22% of its health.
Registeel's leftovers restored its health a little!
Registeel restored 6% of its health.
Registeel was hurt by its burn!
Registeel lost 12% of its health.
---
Registeel used Curse.
Registeel's speed was lowered.
Registeel's attack was raised.
Registeel's defence was raised.
Dragonite used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Registeel lost 17% of its health.
Registeel's leftovers restored its health a little!
Registeel restored 6% of its health.
Registeel was hurt by its burn!
Registeel lost 12% of its health.
---
Dragonite used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Registeel lost 12% of its health.
DA_dramonic's Registeel fainted.
---
DA_dramonic switched in Kangaskhan (lvl 100 Kangaskhan ?).
Pointed stones dug into Kangaskhan.
Kangaskhan lost 12% of its health.
Wolflare switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Pointed stones dug into Machamp.
Machamp lost 6% of its health.
Kangaskhan used Return.
Machamp lost 53% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Suicune (lvl 100 Suicune).
Suicune is exerting its pressure!
Pointed stones dug into Suicune.
Suicune lost 12% of its health.
Kangaskhan used Return.
Suicune lost 5% of its health.
Wolflare's Suicune fainted.
---
Wolflare switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Arcanine's intimidate cut Kangaskhan's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Arcanine.
Arcanine lost 25% of its health.
Kangaskhan used Return.
Arcanine lost 24% of its health.
Arcanine used Will-o-wisp.
Kangaskhan was burned!
Kangaskhan was hurt by its burn!
Kangaskhan lost 12% of its health.
Arcanine's leftovers restored its health a little!
Arcanine restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Dragonite (lvl 100 Dragonite ?).
Pointed stones dug into Dragonite.
Dragonite lost 25% of its health.
Kangaskhan used Return.
Dragonite lost 13% of its health.
Kangaskhan was hurt by its burn!
Kangaskhan lost 12% of its health.
Dragonite's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dragonite restored 6% of its health.
---
Kangaskhan used Return.
Dragonite lost 14% of its health.
Dragonite used Dragon Claw.
Kangaskhan lost 49% of its health.
Kangaskhan was hurt by its burn!
Kangaskhan lost 2% of its health.
DA_dramonic's Kangaskhan fainted.
Dragonite's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dragonite restored 6% of its health.
---
DA_dramonic switched in Espeon (lvl 100 Espeon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Espeon.
Espeon lost 12% of its health.
Espeon used Psychic.
Dragonite lost 46% of its health.
Dragonite used Light Screen.
A barrier was formed!
Dragonite's leftovers restored its health a little!
Dragonite restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
Espeon used Psychic.
Blissey lost 8% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
DA_dramonic switched in Swalot (lvl 100 Swalot ?).
Pointed stones dug into Swalot.
Swalot lost 12% of its health.
Blissey used Aromatherapy.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
Swalot is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Swalot is paralysed! It can't move!
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Pointed stones dug into Machamp.
Machamp lost 6% of its health.
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot stockpiled 1!
Swalot's defence was raised.
Swalot's special defence was raised.
Machamp's light screen wore off!
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
But it failed!
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot stockpiled 2!
Swalot's defence was raised.
Swalot's special defence was raised.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Rest.
Machamp fell asleep!
Machamp restored 47% of its health.
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot stockpiled 3!
Swalot's defence was raised.
Swalot's special defence was raised.
---
Machamp is fast asleep!
Swalot is paralysed! It can't move!
---
Machamp is fast asleep!
Machamp used Sleep Talk.
Machamp used Payback.
Swalot lost 7% of its health.
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 7% of its health.
---
Swalot is fast asleep!
Machamp woke up!
Machamp used Payback.
Swalot lost 14% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot is fast asleep!
Machamp used Payback.
A critical hit!
Swalot lost 63% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot woke up!
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 65% of its health.
Machamp used Payback.
Swalot lost 13% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Payback.
Swalot lost 6% of its health.
Swalot is fast asleep!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Payback.
Swalot lost 7% of its health.
Swalot is fast asleep!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Payback.
Swalot lost 6% of its health.
Swalot woke up!
Swalot used Counter.
Machamp lost 14% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Payback.
Swalot lost 6% of its health.
Swalot used Counter.
Machamp lost 14% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Substitute.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot made a substitute!
Blissey used Softboiled.
Blissey restored 28% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot couldn't stockpile any more!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's substitute faded!
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot couldn't stockpile any more!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot used Substitute.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot made a substitute!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 52% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's substitute faded!
Swalot is fast asleep!
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot is fast asleep!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot woke up!
Swalot used Counter.
Blissey lost 31% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Substitute.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot made a substitute!
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Pointed stones dug into Arcanine.
Arcanine lost 25% of its health.
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot couldn't stockpile any more!
Arcanine's leftovers restored its health a little!
Arcanine restored 6% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 50% of its health.
Arcanine used Roar.
DA_dramonic switched in Espeon (lvl 100 Espeon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Espeon.
Espeon lost 12% of its health.
Arcanine's leftovers restored its health a little!
Arcanine restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
Espeon used Psychic.
Blissey lost 13% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Espeon used Quick Attack.
Blissey lost 8% of its health.
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
Espeon is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Blissey is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Espeon is paralysed! It can't move!
Blissey is paralysed! It can't move!
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Espeon used Psychic.
Blissey lost 14% of its health.
Blissey used Softboiled.
Blissey restored 47% of its health.
---
DA_dramonic switched in Swalot (lvl 100 Swalot ?).
Pointed stones dug into Swalot.
Swalot lost 12% of its health.
Blissey is paralysed! It can't move!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Arcanine (lvl 100 Arcanine ?).
Arcanine's intimidate cut Swalot's attack!
Pointed stones dug into Arcanine.
Arcanine lost 25% of its health.
Swalot is fast asleep!
Arcanine's leftovers restored its health a little!
Arcanine restored 6% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Hidden Power.
It's super effective!
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot is fast asleep!
Arcanine's leftovers restored its health a little!
Arcanine restored 6% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Hidden Power.
It's super effective!
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot woke up!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
Arcanine's leftovers restored its health a little!
Arcanine restored 6% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Hidden Power.
It's super effective!
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot stockpiled 1!
Swalot's defence was raised.
Swalot's special defence was raised.
Arcanine's leftovers restored its health a little!
Arcanine restored 6% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Hidden Power.
It's super effective!
Swalot lost 18% of its health.
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 75% of its health.
Arcanine's leftovers restored its health a little!
Arcanine restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot is fast asleep!
Arcanine used Roar.
DA_dramonic switched in Espeon (lvl 100 Espeon ?).
Pointed stones dug into Espeon.
Espeon lost 12% of its health.
Arcanine's leftovers restored its health a little!
Arcanine restored 6% of its health.
---
Arcanine used Flamethrower.
Espeon lost 45% of its health.
Espeon used Psychic.
Arcanine lost 36% of its health.
Wolflare's Arcanine fainted.
---
Wolflare switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Pointed stones dug into Machamp.
Machamp lost 6% of its health.
Wolflare switched in Dragonite (lvl 100 Dragonite ?).
Pointed stones dug into Dragonite.
Dragonite lost 20% of its health.
Wolflare's Dragonite fainted.
Espeon used Psychic.
But there was no target!
---
Wolflare switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Espeon lost 5% of its health.
DA_dramonic's Espeon fainted.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
DA_dramonic switched in Swalot (lvl 100 Swalot ?).
Pointed stones dug into Swalot.
Swalot lost 12% of its health.
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot is fast asleep!
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot woke up!
Swalot used Substitute.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot made a substitute!
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 0% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Pointed stones dug into Machamp.
Machamp lost 6% of its health.
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot stockpiled 1!
Swalot's defence was raised.
Swalot's special defence was raised.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot stockpiled 2!
Swalot's defence was raised.
Swalot's special defence was raised.
Machamp used Payback.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's substitute faded!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Payback.
Swalot lost 8% of its health.
Swalot used Counter.
Machamp lost 16% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot stockpiled 3!
Swalot's defence was raised.
Swalot's special defence was raised.
Machamp used Dynamicpunch.
It's not very effective...
Swalot lost 10% of its health.
Swalot became confused!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Swalot lost 2% of its health.
Machamp used Payback.
Swalot lost 12% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot is confused!
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 51% of its health.
Machamp used Payback.
Swalot lost 13% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Wolflare switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
Swalot is fast asleep!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot is fast asleep!
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 0% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot woke up!
Swalot snapped out of confusion!
Swalot used Substitute.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot made a substitute!
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 0% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 44% of its health.
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's substitute faded!
Swalot is fast asleep!
---
Swalot is fast asleep!
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
---
Wolflare switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Pointed stones dug into Machamp.
Machamp lost 6% of its health.
Swalot woke up!
Swalot used Substitute.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot made a substitute!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Payback.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot couldn't stockpile any more!
Machamp used Payback.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot couldn't stockpile any more!
Machamp used Payback.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's substitute faded!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Dynamicpunch.
It's not very effective...
A critical hit!
Swalot lost 50% of its health.
Swalot became confused!
Swalot is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Swalot lost 2% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot snapped out of confusion!
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 47% of its health.
Machamp used Dynamicpunch.
It's not very effective...
Swalot lost 10% of its health.
Swalot became confused!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Dynamicpunch.
It's not very effective...
Swalot lost 10% of its health.
Swalot is fast asleep!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Dynamicpunch.
It's not very effective...
Swalot lost 10% of its health.
Swalot is fast asleep!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Payback.
Swalot lost 7% of its health.
Swalot woke up!
Swalot is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Swalot lost 2% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Payback.
Swalot lost 7% of its health.
Swalot is confused!
It hurt itself in its confusion!
Swalot lost 2% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Payback has no PP left!
Machamp used Dynamicpunch.
It's not very effective...
Swalot lost 11% of its health.
Swalot snapped out of confusion!
Swalot used Counter.
Machamp lost 22% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Substitute.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot made a substitute!
Machamp used Dynamicpunch.
It's not very effective...
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 41% of its health.
Machamp used Dynamicpunch.
It's not very effective...
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Machamp's leftovers restored its health a little!
Machamp restored 6% of its health.
---
Dynamicpunch has no PP left!
Wolflare switched in Blissey (lvl 100 Blissey ?).
Pointed stones dug into Blissey.
Blissey lost 12% of its health.
Swalot is fast asleep!
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot is fast asleep!
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's substitute faded!
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot woke up!
Swalot used Substitute.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot made a substitute!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 0% of its health.
---
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot couldn't stockpile any more!
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's substitute faded!
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot couldn't stockpile any more!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Substitute.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot made a substitute!
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot couldn't stockpile any more!
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's substitute faded!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 44% of its health.
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot is fast asleep!
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot is fast asleep!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot woke up!
Swalot used Substitute.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot made a substitute!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Stockpile.
Swalot couldn't stockpile any more!
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's substitute faded!
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 44% of its health.
---
Swalot is fast asleep!
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot is fast asleep!
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot woke up!
Swalot used Substitute.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot made a substitute!
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 56% of its health.
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's substitute faded!
---
Swalot is fast asleep!
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot is fast asleep!
Blissey used Softboiled.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot woke up!
Swalot used Substitute.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot made a substitute!
Blissey used Softboiled.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Swalot used Rest.
Swalot fell asleep!
Swalot restored 31% of its health.
Blissey used Softboiled.
---
Blissey used Softboiled.
Swalot is fast asleep!
---
Blissey used Softboiled.
Swalot is fast asleep!
---
Blissey used Softboiled.
Swalot woke up!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Swalot used Rest.
But it failed!
Blissey used Softboiled.
---
Blissey used Softboiled.
Swalot used Substitute.
But it failed!
---
Swalot used Substitute.
But it failed!
Blissey used Aromatherapy.
---
Swalot used Substitute.
But it failed!
Blissey used Aromatherapy.
---
Swalot used Substitute.
But it failed!
Blissey used Aromatherapy.
---
Blissey used Aromatherapy.
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Aromatherapy.
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Aromatherapy.
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Aromatherapy.
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Softboiled.
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Softboiled.
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Softboiled.
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Softboiled.
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Softboiled.
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Softboiled.
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
DA_dramonic: how many pps you have left?
Wolflare: ehh, just a little
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Wolflare: how much do you have?
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
DA_dramonic: 13
Wolflare: oh
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Wolflare: Seiemic Toss=3
Swalot used Rest.
But it failed!
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Counter.
But it failed!
---
DA_dramonic: you call that just a little?
Swalot used Rest.
But it failed!
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
---
Wolflare: that is thunder wave, seismic toss is very low
Blissey used Thunder Wave.
But it failed!
Swalot used Struggle.
Blissey lost 9% of its health.
Swalot was hit by recoil!
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot used Struggle.
Blissey lost 8% of its health.
Swalot was hit by recoil!
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
The substitute took damage for Swalot!
Swalot's substitute faded!
Swalot used Struggle.
Blissey lost 8% of its health.
Swalot was hit by recoil!
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Blissey's leftovers restored its health a little!
Blissey restored 6% of its health.
Swalot's Black Sludge restored a little health!
Swalot restored 6% of its health.
---
Blissey used Seismic Toss.
Swalot lost 25% of its health.
Swalot used Struggle.
Blissey lost 8% of its health.
Swalot was hit by recoil!
Swalot lost 19% of its health.
DA_dramonic's Swalot fainted.
Wolflare wins!
Wolflare: gg
DA_dramonic: gg
DA_dramonic has left the room.
. :D

Archer January 15th, 2009 7:56 PM

Note to self. Never open that spoiler again....Ever.
Perish Song is a really limited move. Probably the only viable users in OU are Celebi and maybe Mismagius/Politoed. Celebi is great on a stall team, giving Cleric support as well as Reflect support if you need it. I don't see where you'll fit it in, though.

wolf January 15th, 2009 8:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 4283470)
Note to self. Never open that spoiler again....Ever.
Perish Song is a really limited move. Probably the only viable users in OU are Celebi and maybe Mismagius/Politoed. Celebi is great on a stall team, giving Cleric support as well as Reflect support if you need it. I don't see where you'll fit it in, though.

XD Yeah, it is the loooooooooooooooongest battle I ever did! Celebi was what I was thinking... I could take out Blissey and put in Celebi with this:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Calm
252 HP/ 220 SpD/ 36 Spe
~ Psychic
~ Perish Song
~ Leech Seed
~ Heal Bell

Although, I miss my Wish support............
OR

Celebi @ Leftovers
Calm
252 HP/ 220 SpD/ 36 Spe
~ U-turn
~ Perish Song
~ Grass Knot
~ Recover

Except this seems a bit bad since I have no Cleric or Wish support... Usually I have Def EVs, but SpD EVs since I have mostly physical walls...

Archer January 15th, 2009 8:20 PM

Sorry, Celebi isn't going to be replacing Blissey anytime soon. Its typing makes it a poor Special Wall. Ghost, Dark, Fire, Ice... Shall I stop there? That's why I said it'll be a pain to fit in.

wolf January 15th, 2009 8:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 4283514)
Sorry, Celebi isn't going to be replacing Blissey anytime soon. Its typing makes it a poor Special Wall. Ghost, Dark, Fire, Ice... Shall I stop there? That's why I said it'll be a pain to fit in.

I agree on that as I put many ... in it! lol Even though it helps with my Electric weak, I think it shouldn't be replaced... And Seismic Toss Blissey does the job good also! ;)

Archer January 15th, 2009 8:30 PM

Unless you can find a better way to deal with Mence and Put Celebi over Porygon2, as it can handle Gyarados pretty well.

wolf January 15th, 2009 8:50 PM

>.< Internet went down...

If that, then it would do well actually. Here is a maybe moveset:
Celebi @ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP/ 220 Def/ 36 Spe
~ Thunder Wave
~ Grass Knot
~ Perish Song
~ Recover

Hmm... Is that okay? Machamp handles DD Mence, CB Mence (hopefully) w/ Ice Punch. MixMence a Specs Mence is a problem though... Specs Mence gets destoyed by Blissey though.

Archer January 15th, 2009 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolflare (Post 4283564)
>.< Internet went down...

If that, then it would do well actually. Here is a maybe moveset:
Celebi @ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP/ 220 Def/ 36 Spe
~ Thunder Wave
~ Grass Knot
~ Perish Song
~ Recover

Hmm... Is that okay? Machamp handles DD Mence, CB Mence (hopefully) w/ Ice Punch. MixMence a Specs Mence is a problem though... Specs Mence gets destoyed by Blissey though.

Not with Outrage being spammed, it won't. Sure, it OHKOs it, but I'm pretty sure DD Outrage OHKOs you. I'll edit with confirmation.

EDIT: +1 Mence's Outrage:
607 Atk vs 250 Def = 81.51% - 96.09%

With Life Orb it's an undeniable OHKO.

wolf January 16th, 2009 7:25 AM

K, I wasn't for sure on that... Anyways, I think I should keep Porygon2 in there the way it is.

Does anyone think Skarmory should be taken out for Gliscor?

Artemis January 16th, 2009 9:58 AM

I think u're fine with Skarmory actually...since it is immune to earthquake and toxic, and has little weaknessed...

but also, why not make ur porygon2 a Zee instead? for the extra power???

wolf January 16th, 2009 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick_Kid (Post 4284943)
I think u're fine with Skarmory actually...since it is immune to earthquake and toxic, and has little weaknessed...

but also, why not make ur porygon2 a Zee instead? for the extra power???

K, I will.

:O Definitely not!!! P2 is my counter for DDMence and such... I don't need power since this is a Stall team, and PZ gets lowered defenses. Plus he doesn't have Trace which back fires Intimidate and Flash Fire.

Barney. January 16th, 2009 10:04 AM

May I just add something?

If you have No guard on Champ...I would seriously consider switching Ice Punch for Stone Edge...More power, and accurasy won't matter ...

Artemis January 16th, 2009 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolflare (Post 4284949)
K, I will.

:O Definitely not!!! P2 is my counter for DDMence and such... I don't need power since this is a Stall team, and PZ gets lowered defenses. Plus he doesn't have Trace which back fires Intimidate and Flash Fire.

glad u were thinking of those things...GOOD JOB!!! lol...I think u're pretty set with this team because u've covered a lot of ur wekanessed and u've built a pretty sturdy team as well...

wolf January 16th, 2009 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazeavile (Post 4284957)
May I just add something?

If you have No guard on Champ...I would seriously consider switching Ice Punch for Stone Edge...More power, and accurasy won't matter ...

I don't care about accuracy, it is PP usage... It also 2HKOs Gliscor how otherwise blocks this set.

Umm... Should I replace Ice Beam/ Flamethrower with Softboiled? Also, what is better on Skarmory? SR, or Spikes?

Artemis January 16th, 2009 2:03 PM

Since Skarmory is your lead it may be alright with those two moves (SR and spikes) as for Blissey...I do not think it would be too much of a bad idea...I think...

wolf January 16th, 2009 2:06 PM

Yeah, since sometimes Bliss needs instant recovery. Ummm... I don't have room for both, that is why I asked... Anyways, if I do, should I replace Drill Peck with SR? Then, my only attacking option is Whirlwind... Though, I could put the EVs in Def from Atk.

Artemis January 16th, 2009 2:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolflare (Post 4285588)
Yeah, since sometimes Bliss needs instant recovery. Ummm... I don't have room for both, that is why I asked... Anyways, if I do, should I replace Drill Peck with SR? Then, my only attacking option is Whirlwind... Though, I could put the EVs in Def from Atk.

NO DO NOT GET RID OF DRILL PECK!!! big mistake because any taunter will kill you because of that.

I say go with this moveset if you like for skarmory:

- drill peck
- stealth rock/spikes
- whirlwind
- roost

wolf January 16th, 2009 2:14 PM

That is what moveset I have. :P

Artemis January 16th, 2009 2:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolflare (Post 4285621)
That is what moveset I have. :P

srry I realized that...but not to worry because I stopped u from changing ur skarmory's moveset...which is helpful...I think...

as for ur Blissey u can switch in softboiled >>> ice beam/flamethrower since you team is basically all about stalling...

Archer January 16th, 2009 2:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolflare (Post 4285588)
Yeah, since sometimes Bliss needs instant recovery. Ummm... I don't have room for both, that is why I asked... Anyways, if I do, should I replace Drill Peck with SR? Then, my only attacking option is Whirlwind... Though, I could put the EVs in Def from Atk.

Uh, Whirlwind doesn't do any damage... I've found Brave Bird/Spikes/Roost/Whirlwind to work the best, anyway.

wolf January 16th, 2009 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer (Post 4285635)
Uh, Whirlwind does do any damage... I've found Brave Bird/Spikes/Roost/Whirlwind to work the best, anyway.

Whirlwind does do damage once SR or Spikes is up. Okay, Brave Bird it is!

Artemis January 16th, 2009 2:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolflare (Post 4285640)
Whirlwind does do damage once SR or Spikes is up. Okay, Brave Bird it is!

Brave Bird is a good choice since it is a lot stronger than drill peck and you have roost to bring you back to health.


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