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A very new team that possibly fails [OU RMT]
EDIT: Changed with everything mentioned so far. Team is now: Gallade, Gengar, Gyarados, Lucario, Celebi, Snorlax (too lazy to find pictures, deal with it).
Gallade @ Expert Belt Adamant EVs: 200 Spe, 252 Atk, 52 HP ~Swords Dance ~Shadow Sneak ~Thunder Wave ~Close Combat I'm still debating weather to lead with Gallade or not. Probably not, but I'm just leaving him here. Anyway, he's my physical sweeper. I made him fairly bulky, so I think he can afford to run SD. I like the addition of Shadow Sneak, as it has much more coverage then my previous moves. Gengar @ Life Orb Timid EVs: 252 SAtk, 252 Spe, 4 SDef ~Focus Blast ~Shadow Ball ~Thunderbolt ~Will-o-wisp/ Hypnosis Ah, Gengar. I essentially copied this from Smogon, which is probably why nobody made many changes. Sweep away. I know Hypnosis is standard, but WoW cripples many counters not expecting to be hit with it. It's sort of a surprise thing. Gyarados @ Enigma Berry Adamant/ Careful EVs: 156 HP/180 Atk/74 Def/100 Spe ~Ice Fang (huzzah for now having something that kills Dragons!) ~Stone Edge ~Waterfall ~Dragon Dance Bulkydos? Yes indeed. There must be some reason he's so hated, but meh. This works better than any spread I could come up with. He does a great job covering my Infernape weakness, as well as others. Lucario @ Choice Scarf 40 Atk / 216 SAtk / 252 Speed Naive/ Hasty ~Close Combat ~Dark Pulse ~Earthquake ~Hidden Power Ice (???) Lucario is my mixed sweeper, as well as a Tyranitar counter. The only problem is I don't know if I can get HP Ice, so I might have to find something else to go there. Snorlax @ Lefties Careful EVs: 244 HP / 28 Atk / 236 SDef ~Body Slam ~Rest ~Sleep Talk ~Crunch Snorlax is my status absorber and special wall. I chose him over Blissey specifically because I like his attack power. The Resttalk combo is formidable and I really think Snorlax excels at this job. Celebi @ Lefties Calm/ Modest EVs: 216 HP/ 220 Def/ 72 SAtk ~Recover ~Psychic ~Stealth Rock ~Grass Knot Celebi is acting as my physical wall. I think the set is pretty self-explanatory; again, I basically copied it from Smogon. Status, Recovery, and a little attacking. Still debating Psychic. |
With Togekiss, you could try increasing the Speed Evs and putting Encore on it. Always handy, especially against stat-boosters. (Maybe remove some SpAtk Evs...) And with Encore, you can always switch to something or force switches.
Not sure about the others. I haven't used any others except Gallade, and Ice Punch is definitely worthwhile. (Get it off Medicham) |
Hmm, I'll consider that for Togekiss. That particular option never crossed my mind, but I rather like the sound of it. Which move do you think I should replace?
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Moreso, putting in a pokemon for the sake of liking it usually isn't the best idea, especially when your team isn't even built to support the pokemon. Lets take your Gallade. One of the listed counters is Gliscor. You don't carry Ice Punch on your Gallade, so what do you plan to do when it switches in? It can indefinitely stall you and none of your pokemon outside of Donphan can really harm it (Tangrowth too, I guess). It can just switch out to something else when it predicts the obvious Ice Shard, leaving you one step behind, again. Elaborate on your process, is what I'm trying to say. |
I suppose I didn't go very in-depth with my strategy, but as I said, this was rather rushed. My apologies, and thanks for rating anyway.
I could make something other than Gallade my lead. I'll have to debate what though. Yeah, I'll switch Hypnosis for Will-o-Wisp. That was silly of me. Donphan isn't the greatest Spinner, but that's not his main purpose. He's a tank and SRer, but I figured Rapid Spin couldn't hurt. If I did end up replacing him, a Spinner wouldn't necessarily take priority. But he has a high Def, which I need. Thanks for the item tip on Togekiss. That just means I'll have to find another Leftovers. I guess Tangrowth really isn't the greatest choice of Physical Wall. I was also thinking Weezing, but I guess he's not that fantastic either. Celebi sounds good to me. I prefer Snorlax over Blissey namely because of his attacking capabilities. I could maybe change him too, though. EDIT: I was thinking of possibly including a BPer as well. Perhaps Leafeon would work, it could pass Swords Dance (Gallade, Donphan, or maybe even Snorlax could recieve it, so I think it'd be more useful to this team than Nasty Plot) and put foes to sleep with Grasswhistle. Having two sleep-inducers on the team will be fun as well. Just a random thought, as I have no idea who it would replace. But I like Baton Pass, so I might try to work this out. I could maybe replace Togekiss, who's not incredibly helpful anyway. In that case, my team would now be: Gengar Gallade Leafeaon/ other SD passer (possibly with high SDef to balance my defence capabilities) Celebi Donphan Snorlax I think a team like this might sync a little better. I also kind of like this status-inducing theme I'm beginning. Maybe I'll put a status-inflicting move on Gallade as well (T-wave...) Thoughts? EDIT2: NINJASK! I didn't even think of that for some reason... soooooo much better than Leafeon. |
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Swords Dance/Shadow Sneak/Night Slash/Close Combat is probably your best bet. Quote:
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As for SD Passing, you can't really benefit from it properly. Gallade learns it already; Donphan and Snorlax are too slow and are easily forced out. Also, Togekiss is not too great at the moment for Shoddy Battle. It's better on Wifi, but Shoddy is rampant with Rotom and Zapdos, which make it hard to use effectively. I don't mean to sound like I only have bad things to say. You've got potential, but a more structured approach couldn't hurt. :D |
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I dont see why you need a spinner when only 1 of your pokemon are SR weak. I see mixape weak as after 1 Np he will ko your entire team except maybe togekiss who will take a chunk from flamethrower,and with Sr might get koed. Gengar could revenge kill...but then again im not sure of that so mabe you wanna add something which can effectivly come in and kill/scare it off. gyarados does'nt outrun ape but intimidate helps.perhaps gyara over togekiss seeing you have a special wall. Gyarados @ Lifr Orb Adamant 72hp/252att/184spd Dragon Dance Waterfall Earthqake Ice Fang/Sone edge That would Really cover some of your weaknesses. you could also try mence,this team has potential. |
Dos would work and it also helps with that nasty dual priority SD Lucario weakness, since Bullet Punch OHKO's Gengar, ES OHKO's Gallade and CC Finishes the rest of your team off after an SD. Possibly a bulkier set up may be in order for the Dos if you add it, idk but not standard bulkydos since that sucks quite frankly..
Also helps with Scizor weak kinda... And i generally like the idea of W-O-W on Gengar since it screws up stuff like Meta, Scizor, Tar, Zong and what not in addition to other common switch ins.. |
I kind of like the idea of a Gyarados; it does seem useful. I could replace Ninjask for it. But I may do something a little different with the EVs, because right now Snorlax is the only thing I have that can switch in to Special Attackers (since replacing Togekiss). I'm gonna try and pump up it's SDef a little, so I have something like this:
Gyarados @ Enigma Berry/ Lefties Adamant/ Careful EVs: 146 HP, 104 Atk, 176 SDef, 80 Spe Ice Fang (huzzah for now having something that kills Dragons!) Stone Edge Waterfall Dragon Dance Leaving me with: Gallade (now at: Swords Dance, Close Combat, Psycho Cut, Shadow Sneak) Gengar Snorlax Celebi Gyarados Donphan The only thing that still concerns me about this team is my rate of physical attackers to special attackers, which is 4:2. But I don't know who to switch for something else. I definatley like where this team is going, though. |
i know you did not just say luvdisc is in the same tier as gallade :o
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Go adamant and pump some more eves into attack and defence. how about. Gyarados @ Leftovers 156hp/180att/74def/100spd ~Dragon Dance ~Waterfall ~Ice Fang ~Earthquake now that looks like it can counter some of your weaknesses.And it can still switch into heatrans and such cause of the hp eves. |
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[email protected] 156 HP / 108 Atk / 100 Def / 144 Speed Adamant Nature - Taunt - Stone Edge - Waterfall - Dragon Dance *Washes self* ew lol But yeah it needs more speed to actually outspeed something after a DD to even pose a threat, namely Gengar. |
I can do a spread something like: 108 HP, 116 Atk, 100 Def, 184 Spe.
I took a little out of HP to increase Spe and Atk, but it's still relativley bulky. I just kind of made that up (I hope I calculated corectly... hehehe), but what do you think? |
The lack of steel type here disappoints me.. Salamence will be having a field day with your team.. Ice Shard Donphan isn't strong enough to OHKO. Infernape is also a problem since nothing here is safe to switch.
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I'm going to run Ice Fang on Gyarados to take care of Mence and other Dragons.
I also want to replace Donphan I think, but I dunno what to use. EDIT: Heatran? Heatran @ Lefties Modest EVs: 196 HP / 104 SAtk / 208 SDef Will-o-Wisp Stealth Rock Earth Power Lava Plume/ Fire Blast |
Scarf Heatran with SR is a good idea, but I'm not that keen about using SR on choiced pokes. Then again, SR is too good to give up on.
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You are Weavile, Infernape, Mamoswine and Scizor weak, you should have used Gyarados over Ninjask/ Togekiss if you so desperately wanted a flying type on board, it also makes a fairly good lead since you lack that as well. Dark+Azelf's spread, though standard, is far better. Use it instead.
- Shadow Sneak > Night Slash on Gallade to kill off weakened Ghosts and Psychics, Night Slash really isnt needed when Lax takes care of all them very well. Ice Punch < Psycho Cut, Psychic gets terrible coverage, Close Combat is enough in terms of STAB. With Ice Punch Gliscor no longer walls you and hits Salamence switch-ins far harder. As for Gallade's item, it can use Life Orb well to some extent, seeing as it does get minimal Life Orb recoil with the 56 HP EVs. Choice Band is also pretty good since it can 2HKO Skarmory and negate Intimidate switch-ins Attack drops.Expert Belt is an option if you don't like the LO recoil or being locked into 1 move. - 236 HP/ 216 Def/ 56 Spe on Tangrowth I honestly dislike small Attack EV investments that are put "just because", they serve no real purpose and are usually a waste of EVs. The spread I suggested above reaches optimal Leftovers recovery, reaches a jump point in defense, and outspeeds Relaxed natured Swampert, Blissey and Machamp, and enough to outspeed the latter two if they decide to play the speed game. All without wasting a single EV in the process. - 204 HP/ 56 Def/ 252 SpD on Snorlax It is a well known fact that pokes with impressive base HP should be maxing out their defenses before their HP to reduce the damage they take. The HP investment reaches optimal Leftovers recovery if you are wondering, the Def EVs are extra. |
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You really should edit your original post, to show what changes you have made to the team and to see it's current status... =/
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That's probably a good idea, huh. Okay, I'll get right on that.
EDIT: Done. That should clear up some confusion. |
I mentioned Scarf because I personally believe it's the only viable Heatran in the current metagame, otherwise it gets outsped by too many things. SubSalac Heatran is another option but it doesn't have room for SR in its moves. If you test your team and see that this Heatran isn't working, try Scarf with SR/Fire Blast/Earth Power/HP Ice or Explosion.
As for Gallade, he seems quite inferior to Lucario with the SD set. You could try SD/CC/Extremespeed/Bullet Punch. Ghosts won't enjoy Bullet Punch. |
Okay, I guess I can try ScarfTran, ahtough Spe wasn't my top priority on the set. It's worth a test run at least. Thanks. I'll edit that into the first post.
I don't think I want to switch to Lucario though. I'd rather use Gallade because I like his stats and he makes a good Bulky sweeper, which is what I was going for. I also liked his status capabilities, but I guess that's gone now anyway... |
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EDIT : Gallade takes like 80% from CB Stone Edge lol Speaking of which, DD Tar is pretty nasty to you. You might want to scarf Celebi so you can revenge kill it, and other threats. |
Hm, scarfing Celebi sounds like it could work. I dunno, I've never scarfed a wall before, haha!
I dunno, I'm hesitant about replacing Gallade. I really, really want to keep him, so I'm trying to find another way. |
[email protected] Scarf
252 SP.ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 HP Timid Naure - Earth Power - Hidden Power [Ice/Fire] - Psychic - Leaf Storm Not with a wall set obv lol |
Hmm, I could do that, but I already have Gengar and Heatran for sweeping. I was planning on using Celebi as a wall. I guess I could get a new wall...
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With Celebi holding a scarf you can revenge kill things which quite frankly is much more effective than trying to wall something in such an offensive metagame as platinum/dp. |
Well, I suppose that makes sense. However in that case, I don't necessarily have to use Celebi. Maybe I could try something with higher Spe and SAtk, or that better covers my weaknesses.
EDIT: I understand I don't really need walls, but I do need something that can take a hit. If I ditch walling Celebi, the only thing that can take any kind of physical hit is Gyarados. Maybe I should at least get another tank, since the metagame is so physical now. |
That Heatran is awful, seriously. Scarfed users can utilize SR effectively, but using both SR and WoW on a Scarfer is a bad idea. If you really want to get SR and Will O Wisp off, change that Heatran to this:
Heatran @ Shuca Berry Ability: Flash Fire EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Earth Power - Explosion / Will O Wisp - Fire Blast - Stealth Rock This set was made by Brawley (I believe) on Smogon. Basically, set up SR, live unboosted Earthquakes, and then you can either use Explosion to kill Blissey (almost like Baitran), or Will O Wisp to cripple Tyranitars and Swampert that are very common switch ins. Lava Plume is an option over Fire Blast, thus clearing up space for Explosion, but WoW is more reliable, and not burning TTar on the switch in isn't the most ideal situation to be in. This Heatran also can lead, thus you don't have to use the outdated Gallade lead. You could make it bulkier, to live some STAB Earthquakes, but the Speed is useful in most cases. |
Everyone is turning my defenders into sweepers. -.-
I can run that on Heatran, I suppose. I didn't like the scarf idea much, anyway. |
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Heatran @ Leftovers Ability: Flash Fire EVs: 252 HP/16 SpA/240 SpD Modest nature (+SpA, -Atk) - Will O Wisp - Stealth Rock - Fire Blast / Overheat - Roar / Earth Power Basically, it's Burn Support. Not as effective as a lead, but still has its merits. |
Hm, I rather like that set. I could do that one. Though, I suppose I don't have to use Heatran either.
Well either way, for now, it's better than what I had. I'll edit it into my first post. Thanks! EDIT: I wonder if I could use Magnezone as a bulky special attacker? He might work better then Celebi... |
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I would agree that Scarf Heatran with WoW is pretty lame. SR/Fire Blast/Earth Power/Explosion or HP Ice like I've told you is good enough. If you wish to use Gallade, then use his status moves. Otherwise he's just an inferior Lucario. Also, Expert Belt looks like a waste. You rather be using Lum Berry in case he gets burned or paralysed. Scarf Celebi isn't so great, especially when Scizor can come in so easily and Pursuit you. If you want a durable Celebi, try Reflect. |
Well the whole reason i suggested Scarf Celebi was to revenge DD Tar since some of them still use it and then using Lucario >> Gallade for CB Tar since this team dies to both. Sure there are better revenge killers however celebi was the easiest thing to change without messing with the team too much.
However there is one thing that needs to be established, you need a way to deal with Tyranitar. You could also scarf that gallade and use that as a revenge killer, but yeah as said you need either a counter or check/ revenge killer to it. Use Leftovers >> Enigma Berry on Gyarados. Bulky dos is meant to take hits and with enigma berry its leftovers recovers is stolen which makes it much harder to take hits. |
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I'm not going to Scarf my Celebi. I'll make him less wall-like and pump some more into SAtk, but I think he can pretty much own T-tar with a STAB Grass Knot.
I'll switch Gyarados' item. I just figured the berry would help him with that awful 4x Electric weakness. I'm going to put T-wave on Gallade to cripple faster enemies or force switches since his speed isn't so great. I like the Heatran set I edited my post with, so I think I'll stick with that one for now. |
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Scarf Celebi is for DD tar who outpaces Lucario after a Dragon Dance and to act as your revenge killer to other threats namely things who cant counter currently and serves as an insurance policy. However a better scarfer, as said, may be in order. Also Grass Knot doesnt do that much to tar due to its good base sp.def and the sandstorm boost. |
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I dunno what you're trying to say. Scarftran and Lead Tran are two different Pokemon. |
You slashed WoW with Explosion so it obviously didn't look so important in that set.
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WoW is terribly unreliable with its 75% accuracy on a pokemon with below mediocre speed that gets OHKO'd so easily. Setting SR and shooting out WoW seems like a difficult job for Heatran. You know what, I'll do the calcs for you! 405 Atk Salamence @ LO vs Timid Heatran EQ - 94.74%~111.46% You have a 1/3 chance to survive! OOH! and maybe you'll hit it with 75% WoW! niiice! Your entire argument to why this set is "viable" relies on switching. Of course if my opponent was switching the entire battle I'd eventually win. This is just dumb. |
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I am going to use a Lucario, but I'm not going to replace Gallade. I'm gonna do a mixed sweeper set.
Lucario @ Choice Scarf (???) Lonely/ Naughty/ Mild/ Rash EVs: I dunno yet, depends on the nature ~Extremespeed ~Aura Sphere ~Stone Edge ~Dark Pulse It's tentative, but still. I think my team will now run something like: Gyarados Lucario Gallade Gengar Snorlax Celebi (??? - maybe replace?) I want to get a second opinion on this before I edit my first post again. I know I'm replacing Heatran which may upset the heated debate up there, but like I said, this is just a thought. It might not happen. |
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If you are gonna run mix scarf luke, use [email protected] Scarf 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Speed Naive Nature - Close Combat - Dark Pulse - Stone Edge - Hidden Power Ice Since you replaced heatran, you can shove Stealth Rock on Celebi >> earth power. |
Okay, I'll do that. Thanks.
The only problem is that I don't know if I can get HP Ice for Lucario. Is there anything else I could use? EDIT: I edited these changes into the first post. |
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Your entire argument for a good "lead" is based on it setting up SR and burning incoming switch ins. You can't do both. You can only use 1 move in 1 turn. So when you set up SR, they switch in to Salamence/TTar, and you're pretty much forced to switch again. If you use WoW the first turn, it means you have to stay for another turn if you wanna set up SR as quickly as possible. Again, you run the risk of 1/4 not hitting with WoW and giving them a free switch in. This is why sub is so much better, because it lets you choose your moves accordingly while scouting for "counters". ----- As for Scarf Lucario, why not just run an entirely physical one? CC/Crunch/Stone Edge/Ice Punch is just as good, while giving CC more power. |
I'm not running an all-physical Lucario because I already have enough physical attackers, and I find that a mixed set is more versatile.
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I know it seems like I'm going in circles, but I may actually bring Tangrowth back over Celebi, but this time as a special attacking tank/ wall.
Tangrowth @ Leftovers Bold/ Modest EVs: 228 HP/ 200 Def/ 62 SAtk/ 28 Spe ~Sleep Powder ~Grass Knot ~Leech Seed ~Ancientpower/ Stun Spore Tangrowth may be better for the job then Celebi, I think. He does have higher base stats for Defence and Special Attack, and is equal in HP. Plus Tangrowth has the ability to status, which is always fun. |
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Tangrowth may have better stats, but it lacks recover which is very important when you're trying to wall stuff. Recover/Reflect/Grass Knot/HP fire is quite good at handling common threats. |
I'm thinking of changing Lucario's moveset. I'd like to include Aura Sphere as well. I can't get HP Ice, so I'll need another move anyway. Perhaps even Flash Cannon? It's a longshot though.
Well, Tangrowth does have Leech Seed for HP gain. That plus lefties might add up. Though I know a recovery move is important. |
Why Flash Cannon? Everything you hit SE with it (Rocks, Ice types) are already hit super effective by Close Combat/Aura Sphere.
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I dunno. Flash Cannon was a random thought. I do need something better, but I'm still working on the set.
EDIT: I know I keep coming up with random ideas, but what about Honchcrow? Honchcrow @ Choice Scarf EVs: 200 SAtk/ 212 Atk/ 96 Spe Mild ~Dark Pulse ~Dill Peck ~Superpower ~Heat Wave Heat Wave decimates Steels, Superpower takes Blissey and Heatran, others for STAB and basic coverage. |
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