Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokedra
No offense but that's wrong. Latias in Ubers was more popular then Latias or so Smogon says. Latias can function as a tank but in Ubers it took its far better then Latios and could KO something. Most importantly it can actually take a hit or two. According to statistics Latias is used more then double Latios and even Tyranitar and Scizor is used more then Latios. 194 Defense can't cope with the Uber metagame so it will be downgraded.
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Uber metagame is irrelevant in this discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokedra
130 SpAtk is fearsome but it's easily revenge killed. Weavile or Dugtrio can used Pursuit/Sucker Punch repesctively to land a huge hit on him. Even when he's full health Pokemon with Sucker Punch can land a huge hit on him. 305 HP /194 Def is even less bulky then Salamence who has Intimidate to cope with his wose Def and higher HP.
Here's some damage calcs for Latios with 0HP/0 Def/0 SpD
Jolly 252 Atk CB Dugtrio w/ Sucker Punch - 76.41% - 89.70%(Sometimes OHKO w/Stealth Rock)
Adamant 252 Atk LO Toxicroak w/ Sucker Punch - 87.71% - 102.99%(OHKO with Stealth Rock 100%)
Jolly CB 252 Atk Weavile w/ Night Slash - 130.90% - 154.15%(OHKO no matter what)
Timid CS 252 SpAtk Jolteon w/ HP Ice - 56.48% - 66.45%(2HKO no matter what)
Now some for Latias with 0HP/0 Def/0SpD
Jolly 252 Atk CB Dugtrio w/ Sucker Punch - 69.44% - 81.73%(Never OHKO even w/ Stealth Rock)
Adamant 252 Atk LO Toxicroak w/ Sucker Punch - 79.73% - 93.69%(W/ Stealth Rock never OHKO'ed w/ Stealth Rock OHKO is possible)
Timid 252 SpAtk CS Jolteon w/ HP Ice - 48.84% - 57.48%(Sometimes 3HKO or 2HKO)
Latias's extra bulk helps. She can survive Dugtrio and OHKO back with Ice Beam and since these EV spreads are for Choice Specs Latias can easily OHKO Toxicroak and Jolteon will fall to Choice Specs Dragon Pulse in 1-2 hits. Look none of these Pokemon are counter so don't bite my head off but seriously Latios isn't that scary. These Pokemon make good revenge killers against Latios and he can't really beat them as usually he will be damaged when they come in.
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How are those calculations even close to relevant? Weavile beating both
[email protected] is a foregone conclusion (assuming it's on the revenge lol). I mean, I guess if they're both at half health Jolteon matters, but it will probably just Shadow Ball and 2HKO BOTH of them anyway (not like anybody in their right mind switches Jolteon in to take out the
[email protected] whether it's on the revenge or not). And really, if somebody brings in Dugtrio to deal with Latios, it's either using Pursuit or Sucker Punch, the latter much more likely. It can just escape. Toxicroak is even more obvious since it's slower, and bringing that in to revenge is a dead giveaway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokedra
And sheer stats? No offense what are Latios's sheer stats? Base 110 Spe? Well Latias has that too. Base 80 Defense? Don't make me laugh. Base 90 Atk? Pah Salamence runs a DD set much better. Base 110 Sp Def? Pretty good but he never invests in it so it sits at a meh 255 SpDef which is pretty nice but not sheer. Base 130 SpAtk is his only sheer stat which is great, no one can deny that.
I'm not saying Latias is better or Latios is better.[/B] They are both great Pokemon but I think some people are overestimating Latios. I've faced a few, he wrecks havoc with Draco Meteor but he is beatable and personally I like Latias better.
Why? Maybe I'm crazy but 110SpAtk is good enough for me and I like the fact even without EV's she still has 216 Def/295 SpD which is pretty bulky.
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Comparing the two isn't getting anybody anywhere, especially since your comparison is pretty much an opinion hardly backed up by anything besides stats? Stats don't prove a thing. But I must say, you call Latias' base 90 bulky but Latios' base 90 a joke. There's hardly a difference. The SDef is a larger difference but both still take special hits well so I don't see any reason to use Specs Latias over Specs Latios when it is almost completely outclassed. They're both suitable for different things since they're so similar. If either of them is better, it's probably Latios since it's way more controversial and powerful for that matter. But seriously, what does comparing the two do exactly? Outline differences we already know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shen
(Post 4363830)
If you can only counter it by revenge killing, it has no place in that tier.
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So you want Dragon and Salamence banned because they can both slap on a Choice Band and 2HKO literally the entire OU tier?
The counter mentality is so early DP I can't even begin to describe it. Countering isn't a bad strategy or anything (quite the opposite, actually), but if you think that should determine tier status completely, I want your Salamence ban thread please. And what happens if a Pokemon has counters? Does that make it OU? Hey guys, I countered Deoxys-A with my special defensive Metagross! Definitely OU !!!!!! By the way, Latios can't do a thing to Blissey besides maybe Trick it. But that gets rid of its Choice Specs and all of a sudden Draco Meteor doesn't hurt so bad. Just saying.
I would totally fish out the new definition of Uber everyone is going by now but I can tell you that "omg no counters" is not one of them. "It has counters" is an equally bad way of going about things. If Blassey gets Sticky Hold (as in it can't be Tricked) and it has its 100% counter, that doesn't make Latios any more Uber or less Uber (well, perhaps by a small amount, but not so much that it would change its tier status).