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Dr Gregory House September 26th, 2009 1:37 AM

Well, this post is related to the Dark/Ghost/Psychic theory.
If we consider it as Dark Matter, then we are able to say that the emissions and radiations emitted from the 'Bite' attack are not physically visible, but, quote wikipedia, "who's existence can be inferred from its gravitational effect on visible matter".
The idea that dark matter literally exists of nothing, that is, that it is not made up of atoms, we can assume that these 'Dark Matters' are made of supersymetric particles and thus can annihilate other 'Dark Matters', thus creating the presence of Photons and Neutrinos. If we consider the Photon as the basic form of electromagnitism, then when a Dark pokemon uses Bite, and creates this Photon Reaction around a Ghost/Psychic pokemon, it is literally creating and destroying matter around it, thus causing a HUGE, or considered otherworldy distortion of electromagnetism.
We should also remember that the Photons of electromagnetism can be considered in the form of Plasma, thus the mythical 4th Dimension state.
This means that not only physical, but spiritual effects (as, if spirits are not visible, but yet are present, then they must be considered a form of Dark Matter, or, as one would call it, electromagnetic energy, or plasmatic [i made that word up] matter).
I.E., Dark attacks literally break apart the Ghost/Psychic pokemon's soul/spirit (electromagnetic state of being). At least, that's the best deifinition I can give.
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Scientist (Post 5121325)

Fighting Pokemon also have inherent tendencies, but theirs lean towards bravery: they aren't intimidated by the Dark types' wiles, and in fact will probably see that intimidation as a challenge. Therefore, they strike at stronger-than-normal power.

Bug Pokemon have unusual [hive]minds. Their thought processes are so simple and scattered, they just don't pick up on the Dark Pokemon's aura and strike with unhindered power.

I would like to dispute this. I would say that with Bug Pokemon, they have exoskeletons, and if the human bone can be stronger than steel then we can assume that the annihilation reaction (aka the creation of photons and neutrinos) would have no affect to them... or at least, VERY LITTLE.
The same goes for the fighting type, they are very strong and are likely to have overdeveloped muscles, I.E. they have a heightened physical strength to the annihilitic creation of Photons and Neutrinos, which means that they are also less affected by Dark type attacks (their matter is less distortable by the physical creation of matter around them).
Now, it's a little bit different for Steel... because it is such a strong alloy (that is the ionic bonds are strong) and many other chemicals are within it to enhance it's tensile strength etc. Because so much bonding is occuring within the steel, the annihilitic creation reaction would have a much harder time breaking the ionic bonds, than, say, the intermolecular bonds of human flesh, or the carbon chains of an ether. Thus, it takes FAR MORE energy to break steel, therefore the Dark attack type is weak against it. (Not to mention the high boiling point :3)

We can also relate this to the Pokeball theory (which I have pondered quite a bit). If we base Dark attacks on this technicality of dark matter annihilation reactions, then we can typically assume that Dark attacks would affect Pokemon INSIDE their Pokeballs, such to say that the electromagnetic energy of the converted 'Pokeballed'-mon would become physical, thus creating defects in the Pokemon... and possibly exploding the Pokeball (on the basis of an annihilation reaction) by creating Photons and Neutrinos, thus forcing a huge amount of physical atomic force from WITHIN the Pokeball.
And if such is to say that Pokeballs can be affected by this, then there must be some assumption that they have a superconductor of electromagnetic energy that protects it from Dark attacks, and also possibly to provide energy to contain the temperature of the heat energy within the pokeball (in the sense that they literally become attached to their trainer by feeding of their trainer's electromagnetic energy).

And as for you question, Destiny Bond, the Pokemon Designers decided to break the laws of physics, as in the Matrix, and decided that water Pokemon should be able to breathe outside of water.

And as for Yams, I think it's quite palpable that it is safe to assume that fruit and vegetables have been replaced by berries.

Also, I was having a bit of a ponder about the electric type. Because, if they have superimmense amounts of electromagnetic thermal energy (to be able to create electric attacks) then, technically, shouldn't the surface and core temperature of the pokemon be extremely high? And in which case, how would steel/electric types cope with that? Would they not melt?
And then, on that basis, shouldn't they, by default, also be able to emit fire attacks? Although this would be like overheat, because their physical body wouldn't be able to cope with the huge power of the heat energy that is released from their inner thermal energy. Right?
And what about the Rock type? I mean, how do they physically BE, and yet they are made of an inanimate object. Would they have some sort of core plasma? Are they operated by a remote soul or being? Are they simply inhabited by this soul/being?

And on the porygon theory, I think it's possible that it's made from a base code, that is similar to Ditto, in a way. Although Ditto is not a code, it acts like a code. Because when it transforms it morphs into another Pokemon, now that doesn't just 'happen'. It has to undergo Biological mutation, not just that, it has to be reversible. So then, it must be made up of programmable stem cells, so to speak, that can perform any action as necessary. Porygon must be similar to this, except that Porygon only immitates the behaviour (it can assume the same type etc). But, it cannot transform. So that must mean that there is some sort of mechanical mechanism within a Porygon, where as Ditto is naturally a mutating Pokemon. So that begs the question, how exactly is Ditto able to fully mutate, and yet Porygon is only able to imitate? Is there some mechanical or biological difference between the two?
But what's even more interesting is how a 'software upgrade' can evolve a Porygon. That seems to give it the representation of a computer. If so, then it's more like a machine that is merely projecting an outer shell of a Pokemon, otherwise why would it be able to upgrade it's software and thus its appearance and states?

I love this whole science thread, I think it's great.

:3

The Scientist September 26th, 2009 6:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destiny Bond (Post 5155503)
Okay, you know how do pokemon, like Quilfish and Lanturn battle out of water? DO they have some kind of special feature that makes them breathe?



See 1:32 - 2:01.

Non-fish Water Pokemon have no problems on land, with exceptions like Gyarados which has a mystical dragon aspect to it.

In the games, to prevent Trainers from being limited, no feature was implemented to reference fish Pokemon survival on land... although the Stadium/Colosseum games will have them floating in midair.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Gregory House (Post 5155653)
If we consider it as Dark Matter, then we are able to say that the emissions and radiations emitted from the 'Bite' attack are not physically visible, but, quote wikipedia, "who's existence can be inferred from its gravitational effect on visible matter".

Occam's Razor: the most likely theory is the one that requires the least amount of assumptions. The common "malevolent/trickster" element in all Dark Pokemon is alluded to in each one's Pokedex entry and through observation, and the fact that their aura can be damaging is referenced to by the attack description for Dark Pulse.

To call upon dark matter (possibly arbitrarily because of the word "dark") is a bit of a stretch. Also, the Japanese term for Dark Pokemon isn't Dark at all, it's [roughly] "Evil".


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Gregory House (Post 5155653)
The idea that dark matter literally exists of nothing, that is, that it is not made up of atoms, we can assume that these 'Dark Matters' are made of supersymetric particles and thus can annihilate other 'Dark Matters', thus creating the presence of Photons and Neutrinos. If we consider the Photon as the basic form of electromagnitism, then when a Dark pokemon uses Bite, and creates this Photon Reaction around a Ghost/Psychic pokemon, it is literally creating and destroying matter around it, thus causing a HUGE, or considered otherworldy distortion of electromagnetism.
We should also remember that the Photons of electromagnetism can be considered in the form of Plasma, thus the mythical 4th Dimension state.
This means that not only physical, but spiritual effects (as, if spirits are not visible, but yet are present, then they must be considered a form of Dark Matter, or, as one would call it, electromagnetic energy, or plasmatic [i made that word up] matter).
I.E., Dark attacks literally break apart the Ghost/Psychic pokemon's soul/spirit (electromagnetic state of being). At least, that's the best deifinition I can give.

Dark matter is an antigravitory force, not antimatter. It is used as a "placeholder" in our universe, an explanation as to why all the solid, gravitational matter doesn't just attract each other and pull everything inward in a Big Crunch. If it were antimatter, we would be experiencing violent annihilation reactions in 30%+ of our universe because antimatter doesn't discriminate: it annihilates with ALL matter regardless of form. Also, dark matter does not react with light/photons at all: it has the unique property of neither absorbing nor reflecting light, the reason it was called "dark" in the first place. The EM spectrum is composed of varying frequencies and intensities of energy waves, not particles. Plasma is a state similar to that of a gas, but the individual particles have absorbed so much energy that the atoms split into subatomic charged particles. You can't have plasma without intense heat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Gregory House (Post 5155653)
I would like to dispute this. I would say that with Bug Pokemon, they have exoskeletons, and if the human bone can be stronger than steel then we can assume that the annihilation reaction (aka the creation of photons and neutrinos) would have no affect to them... or at least, VERY LITTLE.
The same goes for the fighting type, they are very strong and are likely to have overdeveloped muscles, I.E. they have a heightened physical strength to the annihilitic creation of Photons and Neutrinos, which means that they are also less affected by Dark type attacks (their matter is less distortable by the physical creation of matter around them).

Bug types aren't resistant to Dark. Regardless, if their exoskeletons provided that much protection we should also see a resistance to the primarily-physical types, like Steel, Rock, and Normal.

Now for Fighting types, assuming that an annihilation reaction was occurring, the fact that they have more muscle tissue does not change that the matter that makes it up are the same as what make up everything: as long as it's made of matter, it will undergo an annihilation.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Gregory House (Post 5155653)
Also, I was having a bit of a ponder about the electric type. Because, if they have superimmense amounts of electromagnetic thermal energy (to be able to create electric attacks) then, technically, shouldn't the surface and core temperature of the pokemon be extremely high? And in which case, how would steel/electric types cope with that? Would they not melt?
And then, on that basis, shouldn't they, by default, also be able to emit fire attacks? Although this would be like overheat, because their physical body wouldn't be able to cope with the huge power of the heat energy that is released from their inner thermal energy. Right?

The electricity isn't always "turned on", but powered by electrocytes (or in the case of Magnemite et al., an internal capacitor). Electric eels don't boil the water around them even though they're capable of generating massive electrical potential. When the electricity is fired (in burst form, no less), the heat and electrical energy ionize the air, creating a luminescent aura.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Gregory House (Post 5155653)
And what about the Rock type? I mean, how do they physically BE, and yet they are made of an inanimate object. Would they have some sort of core plasma? Are they operated by a remote soul or being? Are they simply inhabited by this soul/being?

Although Rock Pokemon have rocky exteriors, most appear to be somewhat organic in that they have a need to eat and sleep. I doubt that a Pokemon like Sudowoodo is in the same class as Claydol, Bronzong, and Probopass- Pokemon that are specifically stated to have been inanimate objects that mysteriously came to life. In the case of the latter, they are most likely inhabited by spirits- not the type that can exist on their own, but the ones like what compose Spiritomb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Gregory House (Post 5155653)
I love this whole science thread, I think it's great.

Join the Laboratory.

Dr Gregory House September 26th, 2009 4:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Scientist (Post 5156328)
Occam's Razor: the most likely theory is the one that requires the least amount of assumptions. The common "malevolent/trickster" element in all Dark Pokemon is alluded to in each one's Pokedex entry and through observation, and the fact that their aura can be damaging is referenced to by the attack description for Dark Pulse.


But that doesn't mean to say that they have some sort of 'aura', they could simply just be predispositioned to a 'malevolant' behaviour. So, whilst not being spiritually evil, they are biologically programmed to be evil, thus tending to explain the psychological tendencies of the 'good dark pokemon' we see in the anime etc which have been raised as 'good'.
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Scientist (Post 5156328)
To call upon dark matter (possibly arbitrarily because of the word "dark") is a bit of a stretch. Also, the Japanese term for Dark Pokemon isn't Dark at all, it's [roughly] "Evil".

If it is classified as 'evil', then what do they really have to compare it against? I mean, there's no 'light' or 'angel' type, is there?
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Scientist (Post 5156328)
Dark matter is an antigravitory force, not antimatter. It is used as a "placeholder" in our universe, an explanation as to why all the solid, gravitational matter doesn't just attract each other and pull everything inward in a Big Crunch. If it were antimatter, we would be experiencing violent annihilation reactions in 30%+ of our universe because antimatter doesn't discriminate: it annihilates with ALL matter regardless of form.


Not quite, see, what I was talking about was dark matter actually annihilating with dark matter (through some sort of weird containment function or whatever) so that it actually imposes gravitational matter onto the foe that it is attacking, thus the intense damage that we see against ghost and psychic types.
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Scientist (Post 5156328)
Also, dark matter does not react with light/photons at all: it has the unique property of neither absorbing nor reflecting light, the reason it was called "dark" in the first place. The EM spectrum is composed of varying frequencies and intensities of energy waves, not particles. Plasma is a state similar to that of a gas, but the individual particles have absorbed so much energy that the atoms split into subatomic charged particles. You can't have plasma without intense heat.

Again, the dark matter does not 'react' with it, as such... but I can agree with the Plasma part... that's just a bigger part of the Pokeball problem...
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Scientist (Post 5156328)
Bug types aren't resistant to Dark. Regardless, if their exoskeletons provided that much protection we should also see a resistance to the primarily-physical types, like Steel, Rock, and Normal.


I guess that's true, but how else is there to explain it?
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Scientist (Post 5156328)
Now for Fighting types, assuming that an annihilation reaction was occurring, the fact that they have more muscle tissue does not change that the matter that makes it up are the same as what make up everything: as long as it's made of matter, it will undergo an annihilation.

Then yet again, how do you suppose to explain it?
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Scientist (Post 5156328)
The electricity isn't always "turned on", but powered by electrocytes (or in the case of Magnemite et al., an internal capacitor). Electric eels don't boil the water around them even though they're capable of generating massive electrical potential. When the electricity is fired (in burst form, no less), the heat and electrical energy ionize the air, creating a luminescent aura.

Inside the organ are many muscle-like cells, called electrocytes. Each cell can only produce 0.15V, though working together the organ transmits a signal of about 10V in amplitude at around 25 Hz. These signals are what is emitted by the Main organ and Hunter's organ that can be emitted at rates of several hundred Hz. These high voltage EODs may reach up to 650 volts.
There are reports of animals producing larger voltages, but the typical output is sufficient to stun or deter virtually any other animal.
Luminescence is light that usually occurs at low temperatures, and is thus a form of cold body radiation. It can be caused by chemical reactions, electrical energy, subatomic motions, or stress on a crystal. This distinguishes luminescence from incandescence, which is light generated by high temperatures.
In terms of Pokemon, and the Electric Eel, I would suggest we are talking about Electroluminescence. This is different from Bioluminescence as the animal is not reacting Adenosine Triphosphate within its inner body structure.
Electroluminescence is the result of radiative recombination of electrons and holes in a material (usually a semiconductor). The excited electrons release their energy as photons - light. Prior to recombination, electrons and holes are separated either as a result of doping of the material to form a p-n junction, or through excitation by impact of high-energy electrons accelerated by a strong electric field.
If we relate this to a Pokemon, say, Magnemite, then it's likely suggestible that within the centre of it it has a superconductor... Or at least a semi conductor. This, combine with nano-electronic plates aligned in supersymetrical circle form would have the capacity to creat large electric burtsts of energy (thus explaining thunder, zap cannon, etc).
If we were talking about, say, Rayquaza or a Pikachu, then it is more likely related to the structure of the Electric Eel. These Pokemon are likely to have thousands of electrocytes, alligned, yet again, in a form of supersymetrical structure, thus allowing for the combined strength of a Thunder Attack.
What this tends not to explain is Registeel, or Regice, as they are completely hollow. Thus, their inner body does not contain electrocytes, and yet they are able to use Zap Cannon.
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Scientist (Post 5156328)
Although Rock Pokemon have rocky exteriors, most appear to be somewhat organic in that they have a need to eat and sleep. I doubt that a Pokemon like Sudowoodo is in the same class as Claydol, Bronzong, and Probopass- Pokemon that are specifically stated to have been inanimate objects that mysteriously came to life. In the case of the latter, they are most likely inhabited by spirits- not the type that can exist on their own, but the ones like what compose Spiritomb.

In saying that, though, Spiritomb is not relying on its physical being to survive, as such, it merely relies on the rock to give it physical appearance.
These other Pokemon, however, seem to be physically part of the rock that they are living in, i.e. they were 'brought to life'... which is different from Spiritomb, that merely attaches to the rock or whatever.
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Scientist (Post 5156328)
Join the Laboratory.

Where do I join?
:3

The Scientist September 28th, 2009 7:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Gregory House (Post 5158686)
If it is classified as 'evil', then what do they really have to compare it against? I mean, there's no 'light' or 'angel' type, is there?

The first part of my statement was asking why you picked dark matter as an explanation for Dark-types' abilities when a perfectly reasonable explanation was already given, one that actually has some sort of canonical support; I get the feeling that it was completely arbitrary, based solely on the presence of the word "dark", which is why I brought up the Japanese name for that type. As far as why there isn't a Light type, that was already discussed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Gregory House (Post 5158686)
I guess that's true, but how else is there to explain it?

Well, Bug types aren't resistant to Dark, but their effectiveness can be explained here. Fighting-types' resistance to Dark are similar to Steel's in that they don't take much psychological damage from the attack, mainly physical (and thus they only take half the damage).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Gregory House (Post 5158686)
that's just a bigger part of the Pokeball problem...

The PokeBall problem has also been dealt with. Since plasma has too many flaws, we've settled on digitization.

Ref. 1
Ref. 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Gregory House (Post 5158686)
What this tends not to explain is Registeel, or Regice, as they are completely hollow. Thus, their inner body does not contain electrocytes, and yet they are able to use Zap Cannon.

Technically, humans are "hollow" also- you can think of our bodies as the lumen of a long tube, the GI tract, which is basically empty. Humans are also extremely good capacitors, capable of holding ridiculous amounts of charge. Registeel and Regice most likely operate on this principle, that instead of generating electricity, they charge somewhere else and release the electricity afterwards. The fact that they're composed of water and metal probably helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Gregory House (Post 5158686)
In saying that, though, Spiritomb is not relying on its physical being to survive, as such, it merely relies on the rock to give it physical appearance.

Pokemon like Banette, Regirock, and Claydol start off as inanimate objects, when they are possessed by some sort of spirit. If that type of spirit was an already-existing Ghost Pokemon, it wouldn't need a host body- it is capable of existing independently. The only other type of spirit mentioned ingame that can't live on its own are the type that compose Spiritomb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Gregory House (Post 5158686)
Where do I join?

The entrance to the Laboratory is in my signature. Once there, there should be a button on your left that says "Join This Group".

Dr Gregory House October 14th, 2009 4:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planx (Post 5219927)
hi everybody im new here whats it like here?

Hi, and welcome, I guess.
This place is the very quintessence of speculation and conjuration of ideas.
If you have anything 'scientifical' to ask about Pokemon, feel free.

vaughn362 November 4th, 2009 2:29 PM

i have a question
what exactly happens to cubones skull when it evolves and if cubone wears a marowakes skull then how come they look nothing alike?

roacherman November 4th, 2009 4:45 PM

I gots meself a question here.

How is it that when charmanders flame goes out it dies? I never understood that...

Redstar November 4th, 2009 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaughn362 (Post 5290744)
i have a question
what exactly happens to cubones skull when it evolves and if cubone wears a marowakes skull then how come they look nothing alike?

Cubone continues to have a skull when it evolves. Its mother's skull fuses to its face upon evolution, with the true skull within. The two look nothing alike because baby Cubone don't wear the mother's fuse-skull, but the actual skull inside which does in fact look like a Cubone's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roacherman (Post 5291221)
I gots meself a question here.

How is it that when charmanders flame goes out it dies? I never understood that...

The Pokedex data states that steam comes from Charmander's tail when rained on, which some might think is an inherent contradiction. In reality, both are true. The flame is simply so hot, so sustained, that it can withstand most water. It's only when Charmander is too weak to sustain itself that it loses the strength to keep the fire going. So if the fire has gone out, it's so weak it will die. It has nothing to do with the fire itself, just the implications of it going out.

45YRUL November 4th, 2009 11:21 PM

How Machamp's family use flamethrower(they can learn them through tms)?

The Scientist November 4th, 2009 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45YRUL (Post 5292345)
How Machamp's family use flamethrower(they can learn them through tms)?

The answer to your question is here.


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