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-   -   So..can anyone actually explain the hatred amongst Dawn? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=176533)

Psyburn April 23rd, 2009 6:04 AM

So..can anyone actually explain the hatred amongst Dawn?
 
Having actually watched the DP episodes, from what I have gathered, she is the only character who I give a crap about, seeing as Ash is just going through another bout of 8 badges and another league to lose at. And Brock...god have mercy on the team responsible for your derailment. That said, I seem to have developed an attachment of sorts to the character, and having read through several forums online, people hate this character almost more than May. And I would like to know...why? Most people have gathered that her "suckness" comes from her not being good at battles, which imo is a sad excuse. The quality of any character should not be determined by their fighting abilities in any sort. It's what irks me most about Wesker fanboys on resident evil. They see a powerful character, and absolutely love him to death. Same with Akuma from Street Fighter. Its a sad case of Human Nature.

But back to the topic, what do you think is the general consensus among why Dawn is so hated among fan communities?

randomspot555 April 23rd, 2009 6:27 AM

From what I keep hearing, Dawn is very well liked by the fan base. But the vocal minority who are more dedicated to a previous trio member is what makes it seem like she's actually hated.

Remember, just because Internet Fans hate it doesn't mean that's what the people watching the show think. If the Internet had it's way, Misty and Ash would be married, Pikachu would've been impaled then thrown off a cliff, and crappy COTD that like 5 people in the world care about would become the main stars of the show.

Psyburn April 23rd, 2009 6:33 AM

I wouldn't mind pikachu being impaled actually :P

But COTD?

randomspot555 April 23rd, 2009 6:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyburn (Post 4573685)
I wouldn't mind pikachu being impaled actually :P

But COTD?

Character of the day.


The examples in my post are just that, examples. There's a long list of "fan ideas" that are love on the Internet but are mostly completely crazy, unrealistic, or would casue a back lash in the non-Internet fans.

Spinor April 23rd, 2009 6:56 AM

Understand that to everything there exists, there is a negative base, and a positive base.

You have been probably seeing too many negativew bases, because Dawn sure ain't hated by most people I know and you can probably thank her skirt for that. I also doubt there is anybody that truely hates her for being a sucky battler yet dressing beyond her age.

And what the waffles is COTD?

randomspot555 April 23rd, 2009 7:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ΩGodotΩ (Post 4573717)
And what the waffles is COTD?

Character of the day. A character who comes in for one episode and then vanishes.

Psyburn April 23rd, 2009 8:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomspot555 (Post 4573778)
Character of the day. A character who comes in for one episode and then vanishes.

You mean people actually care about those characters?

Jorah April 23rd, 2009 9:04 AM

Every now and again an interesting CotD pops up out from the endless sea of generic ones. Ones that seem to be well liked by some are AJ from way back in Indigo League and Sho from DP (the Pikachu and Raichu episode). I think a lot of people liked Duplica and the Eevee trainer in Johto, too.

Psyburn April 23rd, 2009 9:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ΩGodotΩ (Post 4573717)
You have been probably seeing too many negativew bases, because Dawn sure ain't hated by most people I know and you can probably thank her skirt for that. I also doubt there is anybody that truely hates her for being a sucky battler yet dressing beyond her age.

Oh believe me, there are PLENTY of people who hate her based on her battle skills.

Though youtube would be a poor example, considering the majority of fans on that site are obscured by trolls.

False Flag April 23rd, 2009 10:08 AM

Personally I think Dawn is the best of the female protagonists. She's one of my top 3 characters in the series.

Quote:

Remember, just because Internet Fans hate it doesn't mean that's what the people watching the show think. If the Internet had it's way, Misty and Ash would be married, Pikachu would've been impaled then thrown off a cliff, and crappy COTD that like 5 people in the world care about would become the main stars of the show.
QFT

weedle_mchairybug April 23rd, 2009 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyburn (Post 4573654)
Having actually watched the DP episodes, from what I have gathered, she is the only character who I give a crap about, seeing as Ash is just going through another bout of 8 badges and another league to lose at. And Brock...god have mercy on the team responsible for your derailment. That said, I seem to have developed an attachment of sorts to the character, and having read through several forums online, people hate this character almost more than May. And I would like to know...why? Most people have gathered that her "suckness" comes from her not being good at battles, which imo is a sad excuse. The quality of any character should not be determined by their fighting abilities in any sort. It's what irks me most about Wesker fanboys on resident evil. They see a powerful character, and absolutely love him to death. Same with Akuma from Street Fighter. Its a sad case of Human Nature.

But back to the topic, what do you think is the general consensus among why Dawn is so hated among fan communities?

Look, I don't know about those "Battle" fans, but I can at least give a sound reason as to why I dislike/hate Dawn that has absolutely nothing to do with battles. I disliked her because of her personality, something she somewhat represents. She was way too similar to a LH girl to me (and if you have read or at least heard of Love Hina, you'll know exactly what I mean by that), or, for a more... Pokemon related situation, how those Fiorello Cappucino fangirls acted in the Episode "Princess vs. Princess".

And, personally, when I saw her introduced, I actually didn't mind her, and it was only AFTER I watched "Setting the World on it's Buneary" that I began to hate/dislike her (since she threw a tantrum in the episode, twice.).

Also, her skirt is also partially the reason why I disliked her, as I feel that outfits like that are a bad influence to females.

Sweet Candace April 23rd, 2009 3:32 PM

People hate Dawn because she's inexperienced (but she's getting more experience), her skirt is shortertest piece of clothing in Pokemon history, and most people still like Misty and/or May. You can't make people change their opinions.

Ninja Caterpie April 23rd, 2009 3:43 PM

Dawn throws tantrums too much.

Whereas you see, May never did such a thing.

Green1124 April 23rd, 2009 3:45 PM

IMO Dawn is the worst protagonist. May should have stayed. She is annoying as hell, her dress is a little too short, she is inexperienced, and she is as ugly as all hell

.:Kanto:. April 23rd, 2009 4:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinateChaos (Post 4575022)
IMO Dawn is the worst protagonist. May should have stayed. She is annoying as hell, her dress is a little too short, she is inexperienced, and she is as ugly as all hell

o_O ugly as hell..? thats a lie!!

I think she looks much better than Misty or May. And anyway, I never liked May... in my opinion she is kind of.. ugly

La Foudre April 23rd, 2009 4:19 PM

Dawn is my third favorite character under Brock and Mistyy.

I really disliked May.. Not sure why. She really just annoyed me, and I didn't like her game counterpart either.

randomspot555 April 23rd, 2009 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinateChaos (Post 4575022)
IMO Dawn is the worst protagonist. May should have stayed. She is annoying as hell, her dress is a little too short, she is inexperienced, and she is as ugly as all hell

Fortunately, how I enjoy shows doesn't matter on how "attractive" a character is or isn't.

Katsu Koneko April 23rd, 2009 8:07 PM

Mostly I hear it's because of her skirt and inexperience. Which is pretty stupid in my opinion.

I love Hikari~ She's my favorite PokeGirl. ^^

I disliked Haruka at first, but warmed up to her at the end.

I think she's gradually improving from crying for her loses to learning from her mistakes. An example, DP123.
Spoiler:
In the latest contest she didn't cry even though she lost. She acknowledged what she did wrong (Thinking about her 5th ribbon too much) and kept a smile on her face. She believed that next time she'll do her best once more to try and get that last ribbon.

Corvus of the Black Night April 23rd, 2009 9:04 PM

Instead of speaking for everyone else, I will speak on why I dislike Dawn.

I find her personality to be very flat, similar to Ash's. Basically, she's going around training Pokemon, saying "Awesome!" and "Totally!" every chance she's got, without any real character development whatsoever. She tends to overreact to an extremely annoying extent, and she her inexperience is so pitiful it makes me want to chuck something at her. She also seems too much like a copy of May, which she wasn't a great character herself, but to have it replicated onto another generation annoys me.

Dawn in the games is pretty sweet though. I dig the dark blue hair ^^

randomspot555 April 23rd, 2009 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokemon Jupiter Version (Post 4575925)
Instead of speaking for everyone else, I will speak on why I dislike Dawn.

I find her personality to be very flat, similar to Ash's. Basically, she's going around training Pokemon, saying "Awesome!" and "Totally!" every chance she's got, without any real character development whatsoever. She tends to overreact to an extremely annoying extent, and she her inexperience is so pitiful it makes me want to chuck something at her. She also seems too much like a copy of May, which she wasn't a great character herself, but to have it replicated onto another generation annoys me.

Dawn in the games is pretty sweet though. I dig the dark blue hair ^^

Whatever your personal opinion about Dawn and/or May are, you can't say one is a carbon copy without ignoring their introductions. May, despite being from a Gym leader family, knew nothing about Pokemon, and was really unmotivated on her journey until contests were shown to her. Dawn was raised by a former Contest coordinator and had at least some knowledge of Pokemon, and knew what she wanted to do fro the start.

I really don't see why (over)reacting and being inexperienced is something to hold against her. That's how 10 year olds act. They do get overt emotional. Big deal. People BEYOND 10 have that happen to them too. But as recent episodes demonstrated, Dawn went through quite a funk for a number of episodes which ended with her Gym battle against Maylene.

Do you guys remember how Ash (cue Ash haters now) handle his defeat at the Indigo League? Crying, whining, holing himself up in his room for days at a time? Overreacting was practically a staple characteristic of another former trio member, Misty.

Many of you seem to be expecting completely mature adult reactions from 10 year old kids.

Charaxes April 23rd, 2009 9:26 PM

There are many Rocket COTDs, too (I'm looking at you, Domino).

I'm with you on expecting too much on 10 years olds. I don't, per se. Dawn did annoy me, originally, as "are the Japanese producers going to replace Ash with her, or nor, or what?" To be fair, the whole "my mother is a Coordinator, yet I can't seem to win constantly," yeah, it grated on me.

There's a fine line, and May polevaulted it with her deus ex machina wins, so they compensated with the reverse.

I'm not sure if it's hatred, as it's getting used to change. The character has been around for a few years, but she doesn't feel like she's part of the group. I think she's still too busy going off and doing her own thing. May was the same way, but she was less obvious about it and more inclusive.

Does that make any sense? Of course, I haven't seen her in action for a year, so I could be quite wrong. Heh.

Corvus of the Black Night April 23rd, 2009 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomspot555 (Post 4575946)
Whatever your personal opinion about Dawn and/or May are, you can't say one is a carbon copy without ignoring their introductions. May, despite being from a Gym leader family, knew nothing about Pokemon, and was really unmotivated on her journey until contests were shown to her. Dawn was raised by a former Contest coordinator and had at least some knowledge of Pokemon, and knew what she wanted to do fro the start.

I really don't see why (over)reacting and being inexperienced is something to hold against her. That's how 10 year olds act. They do get overt emotional. Big deal. People BEYOND 10 have that happen to them too. But as recent episodes demonstrated, Dawn went through quite a funk for a number of episodes which ended with her Gym battle against Maylene.

Do you guys remember how Ash (cue Ash haters now) handle his defeat at the Indigo League? Crying, whining, holing himself up in his room for days at a time? Overreacting was practically a staple characteristic of another former trio member, Misty.

Many of you seem to be expecting completely mature adult reactions from 10 year old kids.

Wow. I totally didn't expect that reaction for speaking my thoughts.

However, like many characters in the show, she's very black and white. Which is something I despise about the Pokemon Anime.

randomspot555 April 24th, 2009 3:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokemon Jupiter Version (Post 4576065)
Wow. I totally didn't expect that reaction for speaking my thoughts.

This is a discussion forum. People are allowed to read your posts and respond to them, sometimes even about the post itself.

If you didn't feel like talking about your opinion or seeing people respond to it, you didn't have to post.

Nina April 24th, 2009 4:30 AM

I'm not complete sure why.
Some people hate her for the reasons some people like her.

I like her because she doesn't just sit there in the background like Misty and May did. Some people hate her for stealing so much of Ash's spotlight.

She's a lot more girly but if she can stll like a Grimer, she's got her priorities straight with me. Because she fussed over her hair (yeah right, like you haven't) she's vain and useless to other people. Though I agree that tent she had at first was excessive.
But she's actually grown from then. That's good.

Also people hated May because she replaced Misty, and now people hate Dawn because she replaced May. Just too stuck on the old characters to give the new ones a chance.

Azumi April 24th, 2009 5:12 AM

I would think that Dawn is hated because she looks like a replica of Ash. (Or maybe the reason why I don't like her that much...) Let me see...

Spoiler:

1) She sees a legendary Pokemon at the beginning of her journey.
2) Piplup hates Dawn at first, but they become fast friends after the Ariados event, much like how Ash protected Pikachu from the Spearows.
3) Mamoswine acted like Charizard at a point of the plot.
4) Piplup refused to evolve, much like how Bulbasaur did.
5) She is the second main character who obtained an electric Pokemon, after Ash. (And I'm not counting the rivals here.)


I don't have too many proof, but... yeah... :)
Besides, I love her contest appeals!

Psyburn April 24th, 2009 5:43 AM

Quote:

her skirt is also partially the reason why I disliked her, as I feel that outfits like that are a bad influence to females.
Quote:

er dress is a little too short
Quote:

her skirt is shortertest piece of clothing in Pokemon history
.............................im speechless. Dawn's particular clothing is less (well not at all) sexually explicit compared to Misty's tank and shorts that ride too high, and her skirt is the "shortest"* thing in pokemon history?

This is not really a reason at all to hate character.

Quote:

Dawn throws tantrums too much.
I can agree on that :P

Quote:

she her inexperience is so pitiful it makes me want to chuck something at her
Ok...maybe I missed a few details but if I recall...isn't she a beginning trainer? Someone who is still learning about how to properly train catch pokemon? Why wouldn't her experience be bad?

Quote:

I love Hikari
Who the hell is Hikari?

Unown_ April 24th, 2009 8:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azumi (Post 4576538)
I would think that Dawn is hated because she looks like a replica of Ash. (Or maybe the reason why I don't like her that much...) Let me see...

You might want to put events that have are yet to happen in the dub between spoiler tags. There members out there who don't like spoilers...

BUG♥CATCHER★BREEZE April 24th, 2009 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyburn (Post 4576592)
Who the hell is Hikari?

Dawn's non-dubbed name...

I could start this debate with a completely unrelated thing ...(God I want to kill May's game counterpart, because she isn't a rival in any way at all), BUT I'm not that Magikarp-brained.

I don't see what is wrong with Dawn. I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that... Dawn is 10. I know 10 year olds. People who are ten and completely different from those who have matured and grown up.

So she has a lot in common with Ash. In my opinion, this series seems to referring back to older episodes - the whole Piplup is rebelling against its trainer and such forth. And besides the younger viewers weren't even BORN when I Choose You was aired... ¬¬

As for her skirt - the other girls were just as scantily dressed. It is an anime...!

Dawn is different, because she doesn't let Ash take the spotlight. Why isn't that a good thing, I mean there are HUNDREDS of Ash related episdoes.

Dawn isn't really breaking the mould, with the whole co-ordinator thing, but she actuallu does something other than just watch Ash train his Pokémon...

weedle_mchairybug April 24th, 2009 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sclera (Post 4577410)
I don't see what is wrong with Dawn. I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that... Dawn is 10. I know 10 year olds. People who are ten and completely different from those who have matured and grown up.

See, the thing is, ten year olds usually have a sense of maturity that's higher than most kids prior to teen years. Dawn is acting more like a four-year old.

Quote:

So she has a lot in common with Ash. In my opinion, this series seems to referring back to older episodes - the whole Piplup is rebelling against its trainer and such forth. And besides the younger viewers weren't even BORN when I Choose You was aired... ¬¬
Even IF the younger viewers weren't born when I Choose You was aired, that doesn't mean they have to make Dawn like Ash every time, especially since that rationale didn't stop the writers from continuously referencing certain aspects of the anime that these same viewers would NOT know about (eg, Jessie's old Blissey friend, Ash's Caterpie's capture, Ash's Butterfree's release, Brock mentioning his Onix, etc, etc.)

Quote:

As for her skirt - the other girls were just as scantily dressed. It is an anime...!
I can agree with May (for goodness sakes, May, at least wear an oversized t-shirt so you won't flaunt that rack of yours easily). But I didn't see how Misty was scantily clad. I mean, sure, her shorts were... a bit tiny, but, then again, so are most school-endorsed gym outfits, and no-one's complaining about that. Heck, she's at least keeping her pants up (the over-alls come to mind), and I don't see how a stomach is even close to sexy. I can understand why the behind or even the chest would be considered such, but for goodness sakes, it's just a stomach.

Quote:

Dawn is different, because she doesn't let Ash take the spotlight. Why isn't that a good thing, I mean there are HUNDREDS of Ash related episdoes.
Hey, I can name a ton of episodes that doesn't have Ash at the spotlight. Heck, even Kanto didn't focus on Ash much. Dawn didn't even take away Ash's spotlight, he barely even had it in the first place. I'll be happey to name all the episodes where Ash wasn't in the spotlight (or at the very least, wasn't completely focused on the spotlight).

Quote:

Dawn isn't really breaking the mould, with the whole co-ordinator thing, but she actuallu does something other than just watch Ash train his Pokémon...
Actually, Misty did do far more than "just watch Ash train his Pokemon". Actually, the only one of the main cast who actually did only just watch Ash train his pokemon for his entire run was Max. I guess you could also say Tracey and Brock, but still.

Vernikova April 24th, 2009 1:22 PM

I like Hikari. She isn't my favorite character but I like her on the show. I hope the next female star is even more likeable and even a trainer.

randomspot555 April 24th, 2009 2:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug (Post 4577491)
See, the thing is, ten year olds usually have a sense of maturity that's higher than most kids prior to teen years. Dawn is acting more like a four-year old.

No, really, 10 year olds really aren't mature. They overreact. They get emotional, a lot, over what can be seen as something that people shouldn't get emotional about. The same can be said of ALL of the main cast.

Quote:

Even IF the younger viewers weren't born when I Choose You was aired, that doesn't mean they have to make Dawn like Ash every time, especially since that rationale didn't stop the writers from continuously referencing certain aspects of the anime that these same viewers would NOT know about (eg, Jessie's old Blissey friend, Ash's Caterpie's capture, Ash's Butterfree's release, Brock mentioning his Onix, etc, etc.)
Referencing episodes is bad?

Quote:

I can agree with May (for goodness sakes, May, at least wear an oversized t-shirt so you won't flaunt that rack of yours easily). But I didn't see how Misty was scantily clad. I mean, sure, her shorts were... a bit tiny, but, then again, so are most school-endorsed gym outfits, and no-one's complaining about that. Heck, she's at least keeping her pants up (the over-alls come to mind), and I don't see how a stomach is even close to sexy. I can understand why the behind or even the chest would be considered such, but for goodness sakes, it's just a stomach.
I love the double standard. May shows off this mythical huge bust, Dawn has the short skirt, but Misty with short shorts and a same equally mythical huge bust? You rationalize it away.

Her shorts are like gym shorts? But she isn't in a gym. She's wearing these casually, walking around, every day.

None of their busts are all that unusual, and they aren't displayed in any sexual way. That's why they can show skin from all three girls, but not get any flack from any women's rights group. Because they aren't displayed in any sexual way.

Here's some news for you: Nobody in Pokemon is sexy. In fact, they are very much de-sexualized. Ever seen a nipple when a male on the show is shirtless?

Quote:

Heck, even Kanto didn't focus on Ash much.
I'm pretty certain the vast majority of episodes in Kanto were centered on Ash. So how does that translate into "didn't focus on Ash much"?

weedle_mchairybug April 24th, 2009 3:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomspot555 (Post 4577832)
No, really, 10 year olds really aren't mature. They overreact. They get emotional, a lot, over what can be seen as something that people shouldn't get emotional about. The same can be said of ALL of the main cast.

I have memories of when I was ten, as well as many of my friends when they were ten, and none of them were even that emotional. In fact, many of them seemed more like miniature adults.

Quote:

Referencing episodes is bad?
No, I was just saying that it's pointless to make Dawn a copycat when they're already referencing past events without resorting to making Dawn copy Ash.

Quote:

I love the double standard. May shows off this mythical huge bust, Dawn has the short skirt, but Misty with short shorts and a same equally mythical huge bust? You rationalize it away.
You have got to be kidding me... MISTY DOESN'T HAVE A CHEST!!! Heck, JJM even stated it in "Beauty and the Beach"! They even animated her in such ways where it's absolutely clear that she doesn't have one. May, on the other hand, has been shown with a rack since day one up until her appearance in DP. Heck, even her Bathing suits show her with one, and seeing how Misty was considered to be flat-chested in episodes where She's in a bathing suit, that's saying a lot.

Quote:

Her shorts are like gym shorts? But she isn't in a gym. She's wearing these casually, walking around, every day.
Well, at least it's better than her appearance in Electric Tale of Pikachu, and at least her pants aren't exposing any undergarments (heck, she's even wearing over-alls.)

Quote:

None of their busts are all that unusual, and they aren't displayed in any sexual way.
Have you even seen May's chest?! That thing is bulging out of her shirt during Hoenn, and even Battle Frontier to a certain extent. In fact, one can argue

Quote:

That's why they can show skin from all three girls, but not get any flack from any women's rights group. Because they aren't displayed in any sexual way.
Yeah, and these so-called "Womens right" groups haven't flacked "Love Hina", "WitchBlade", "Playboy Magazine", "Penthouse", or any of those things either despite their clearly evoking women's rights. Honestly, the only reason they aren't doing it is out of pure ignorance, because otherwise, the examples listed above would be banned, burned to the ground, and the people responsible for their conception thrown in jail.

Quote:

Here's some news for you: Nobody in Pokemon is sexy. In fact, they are very much de-sexualized. Ever seen a nipple when a male on the show is shirtless?
I see you conveniently forgot "The Kangaskhan Kid" and Mayor in the episode of the Giant Bulbasaur mutant. Besides, I'm straight, and I don't even see your point, anyways.

Quote:

I'm pretty certain the vast majority of episodes in Kanto were centered on Ash. So how does that translate into "didn't focus on Ash much"?
Ok... "Ash catches a Pokemon" had Misty being a significant focus (for goodness sakes, a significant portion of the episode dealt with her fear on Caterpie and learning to cope with it.), The Charmander capture episode seemed more like a Brock-centric episode than an Ash-centric episode (The only thing he did in the episode was capture Charmander), Princess vs. Princess wasn't even focused on Ash, Our Hero Meowth was a Meowth Centric episode, same deal with Go west, young meowth, The Breeding Center Secret was a Misty Centric episode, Misty Mermaid, well, the central character of the episode was obvious, Pokemon Shipwreck was more of a Misty episode, Island of the Giant Pokemon actually focused more on the Pokemon than on Ash, or any of the humans, for that matter, Tentacool and Tentacruel centered on Misty, so did "Beauty and the Beach", "Battle of the Badge" was more of a Team Rocket episode than an Ash episode, The episode where Brock got eevee, well, evidence enough. Who get's to keep togepi focused on Misty. The episode involving the Backpack thief was focused on Misty. March of the Exeggutor was a Misty episode, The Ghost of Maiden's Peak focused on Brock, Waterflowers of Cerulean City was a Misty episode, Light's Camera and Quack-tion was a Misty episode, Misty's bond with Oddish played a significant part in "Bulbasaur and the Hidden village", not to mention that the same episode had Brock getting a crush on Melaine, Pikachu's Goodbye was more focused on Pikachu than on Ash, "Riddle me this" was technically a Misty episode (Seeing how she was the reason why Ash even got his chance to battle Blaine in the first place), The Fake-Leaf Stone episode was focused on Brock, and some episodes didn't even focus on any of the main characters at all (eg, Ditto's Mysterious mansion, The Bridge Bike Gang, all of those episodes).

In fact, the only episodes that were truly dedicated to Ash (by that, I mean it focused on him, him and him alone) were the first episode, the Samurai episode, the Vermillion gym, Battle aboard the St. Anne, Bye-Bye Butterfree, the Sabrina Arc, Primape, Erika, Koga, the rematch with Blaine, and the League itself (especially since, for a time that's supposed to be focused on Ash, the episodes where Ash was training for the league ironically barely even focused on him.).

randomspot555 April 24th, 2009 6:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug (Post 4578115)
I have memories of when I was ten, as well as many of my friends when they were ten, and none of them were even that emotional. In fact, many of them seemed more like miniature adults.

People's accounts of their own memories are rarely that accurate, and your judgement is questionable to begin with.

But let's just pretend it is accurate, that you and your friends were like "miniature adults", then that isn't the norm.

Quote:

No, I was just saying that it's pointless to make Dawn a copycat when they're already referencing past events without resorting to making Dawn copy Ash.
I don't see how it's making another Ash if they've shared some similar experiences. It's a good way to have characters able to bond.

Quote:

You have got to be kidding me... MISTY DOESN'T HAVE A CHEST!!!
She most certainly does. She's 10. Women develop much earlier than men.

I'm not going to compare bust sizes of 10 year old animated female characters, because I'm not a creep. If you've studied bust sizes of the female characters...peaches. But I'm not going to. But it's safe to say that none of them are overtly big for how they're body is portrayed, and it's certainly not done so in a sexual fashion.

Quote:

Heck, JJM even stated it in "Beauty and the Beach"!
I'll say this slowly:

They. Are. The. Bad. Guys. They insult people. Not to speak truth.

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I see you conveniently forgot "The Kangaskhan Kid" and Mayor in the episode of the Giant Bulbasaur mutant.
Those are adults. The children in Pokemon don't.

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Besides, I'm straight,
I could care less.

Quote:

and I don't even see your point, anyways.
The point is that none of the characters in Pokemon are portrayed in a sexual way because anything that can be seen as sexual maturity just isn't there. Has anyone ever shaved in a Pokemon episode or had a 5 o clock shadow? I could go ahead and list all the signs of puberty, but that sounds fairly creepy and I hope I don't have to explain it to this board. But it's safe to say that that kind of stuff just isn't shown in Pokemon.

Dawn/May/Misty can "show" as much leg as they want because they aren't there as sex objects and aren't portrayed as such. They may be seen as pretty by some, maybe attractive even. But not sexy.

As to your paragraph on episodes that supposedly focus on other character: You give huge credit for sub-plots and count it as an episdoe that focuses on a character other than Ash (even though it's obvious that it focuses on Ash. Cmon, the title of the episode is "ash catches a Pokemon", not "Misty hates bug Pokemon."). And then you discredit Ash any time he has a sub-plot in a supporting character driven episode. It's a double standard.

The anime is focused on Ash. Sorry. That's not up for debate. It's a fact. Anything else is a complete delusion.

Taemin April 24th, 2009 9:51 PM

I don't hate Dawn.. she just annoys me. D:

Sometimes she's okay, but generally I'm just not too fond of her character.

I couldn't tell you why. o__O She just bothers me, for some reason. Part of it might be her voice, honestly. In the Japanese AND the dub. Keyword there being 'part'.

weedle_mchairybug April 25th, 2009 4:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomspot555 (Post 4578545)
People's accounts of their own memories are rarely that accurate, and your judgement is questionable to begin with.

But let's just pretend it is accurate, that you and your friends were like "miniature adults", then that isn't the norm.

I've been to school with them, observed their behavior every time during my childhood, and none of my friends even acted close to that stereotype, even WHEN they were 10. Even outside of school, when I noticed them elsewhere, they were absolutely nothing like that description you gave of 10 year olds. And anyways, Anything I've experienced survives the test of time, and remains very vivid. Heck, even something like a brief glimpse at a commercial that I saw several years to over a decade ago of my life I remember as if I saw yesterday.

Quote:

I don't see how it's making another Ash if they've shared some similar experiences. It's a good way to have characters able to bond.
Yeah, and Ritchie was similar to Ash in many respects, thus theoretically having those characters being bonded, thus the fanbase would like that. heck, Tracey would have been very popular due to the fact that he shares many similarities to Brock, and the last time I checked, people viewed them as unfavorable, to say the least, and outright clones at worst (not that I mind clones, of course, but still.).

Quote:

She most certainly does. She's 10. Women develop much earlier than men.
That's true. BUT! That doesn't mean that they develop that much in May's case.

Quote:

I'm not going to compare bust sizes of 10 year old animated female characters, because I'm not a creep. If you've studied bust sizes of the female characters...peaches. But I'm not going to. But it's safe to say that none of them are overtly big for how they're body is portrayed, and it's certainly not done so in a sexual fashion.
May's chest IS overly big, however. Heck, looking at my friends/peers at my school, they DEFINITELY weren't that big at that age.

Quote:

I'll say this slowly:

They. Are. The. Bad. Guys. They insult people. Not to speak truth.
Well, EXCLUDING Team Rocket, there's still the fact that Ash himself stated after seeing her in a bikini that "she actually looks like a girl", which implies something that I can't really say since this is a kid's website. Keep in mind, BTW, that Ash is a good guy. Not to mention, in that same episode, Misty's chest was barely even present, especially when you compare it to, say, May in a Bikini in Early AG.

Quote:

The point is that none of the characters in Pokemon are portrayed in a sexual way because anything that can be seen as sexual maturity just isn't there. Has anyone ever shaved in a Pokemon episode or had a 5 o clock shadow? I could go ahead and list all the signs of puberty, but that sounds fairly creepy and I hope I don't have to explain it to this board. But it's safe to say that that kind of stuff just isn't shown in Pokemon.
Yeah, you do realize that Brock's hormones are off the charts on the Show, right?

Quote:

Dawn/May/Misty can "show" as much leg as they want because they aren't there as sex objects and aren't portrayed as such. They may be seen as pretty by some, maybe attractive even. But not sexy.
Alright. Her shorts may be too short, but they were at least not showing her panties (besides, they were definitely longer than in Ono's Pokemon Manga, and those were definitely short. So short, in fact that certain parts of her legs were showing.).

Quote:

As to your paragraph on episodes that supposedly focus on other character: You give huge credit for sub-plots and count it as an episdoe that focuses on a character other than Ash (even though it's obvious that it focuses on Ash. Cmon, the title of the episode is "ash catches a Pokemon", not "Misty hates bug Pokemon."). And then you discredit Ash any time he has a sub-plot in a supporting character driven episode. It's a double standard.
What I believe is that in order for an episode to focus on a character, it has to focus on him, him and him alone/her, her, and her alone (leaving the other characters with little or no focus. for example, Go West, Young Meowth, where the main protagonists only got minimal screentime at best.). When I pointed out that the characters got focus in those episodes, I wasn't saying that those episodes focused on them (at least, not completely), I was just saying that Ash wasn't the focus of the episode (that is, it wasn't focused on him, him and him alone.).

And even IF I was doing double-standard, you're no different in regards to the other characters, saying that Episodes Ash was in focused on him primarily, and refusing to acknowledge that the other characters, like Misty and Brock, actually did focus on them, anyways.

Quote:

The anime is focused on Ash. Sorry. That's not up for debate. It's a fact. Anything else is a complete delusion.
Sure, it focused on Ash, but then again, it focused on Misty, Brock, Tracey, May, Max, Dawn, and even Team Rocket. In order for the show to be focused on someone, it needs to be all the time, and in order to prove they aren't the stars of the show, they would get barely any focus (like, a millisecond's worth of focus.).

Now, if only one episode in the entire season, or heck, even the entire series, focused on the main characters other than Ash, and Ash got all the rest, then yes, the Anime focusing on Ash would DEFINITELY be fact.

randomspot555 April 25th, 2009 6:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug (Post 4579659)
I've been to school with them, observed their behavior every time during my childhood, and none of my friends even acted close to that stereotype, even WHEN they were 10. Even outside of school, when I noticed them elsewhere, they were absolutely nothing like that description you gave of 10 year olds. And anyways, Anything I've experienced survives the test of time, and remains very vivid. Heck, even something like a brief glimpse at a commercial that I saw several years to over a decade ago of my life I remember as if I saw yesterday.

You totally missed my point.

You aren't an accurate judge of how you and your friends act, because obviously you want to portray yourself and the people you associate with in a positive fashion. You could say how mature you are at 10 as much as you want, I don't care. But people have a bias for themselves, and thus your view just doesn't matter because it's likely distorted.

And your judgment really isn't to be trusted in the first place. You've thought that Satoshi Tajiri created the anime, and have compared your personal one-man Pokemon boycott with the Civil Rights movement and the American Revolution.



Yeah, and Ritchie was similar to Ash in many respects, thus theoretically having those characters being bonded, thus the fanbase would like that. heck, Tracey would have been very popular due to the fact that he shares many similarities to Brock, and the last time I checked, people viewed them as unfavorable, to say the least, and outright clones at worst (not that I mind clones, of course, but still.).

Quote:

May's chest IS overly big, however. Heck, looking at my friends/peers at my school, they DEFINITELY weren't that big at that age.
Yeah, I just looked at multiple photos of both of them. They're perfectly normal for a 10 year old and aren't displayed in any sexual fashion.

Are you sure you're watching Pokemon? Because I don't see the DD bust that you must be seeing.

But let's just pretend May did have a big chest. So what? That's not a reason to dislike someone. People don't get to choose how their body looks.

Quote:

Yeah, you do realize that Brock's hormones are off the charts on the Show, right?
Again, you totally missed my point. Pokemon's main characters are very desexualized. You don't see nipples or facial or chest hair on any of the main characters or other characters of the same age in the many beach episodes, you don't see anyone shaving. TLDR is no one seems to have hit puberty/

Quote:

Alright. Her shorts may be too short, but they were at least not showing her panties (besides, they were definitely longer than in Ono's Pokemon Manga, and those were definitely short. So short, in fact that certain parts of her legs were showing.).
And her stomach is showing too.

Aren't you outraged?

Well, of course you aren't. Misty is your favorite and you hate the other two.

So they all three show leg. But you whine and moan only about it with May and Dawn.

May and Misty are both the same in terms of their bodies, though Misty seems to be a bit taller. That's the only difference I see. And since you're the only person here thinking May has these DD, then I'm betting it's just because you hate May's characters and are just looking for reasons to hate her.

Quote:

What I believe is that in order for an episode to focus on a character, it has to focus on him, him and him alone/her, her, and her alone (leaving the other characters with little or no focus. for example, Go West, Young Meowth, where the main protagonists only got minimal screentime at best.).
On Bulbapedia, you kept making edits to Dawn's page trying to remove the Trivia that her debut episode focused on her and you justified that by saying Ash appeared in the last 30 seconds.

Here are the facts:

  • The anime's central focus is Ash. He and his Pokemon get the vast majority of screen time. In most episodes, even if some other character(S) get a sub-plot, Ash gets the main plot. No example listed, because you could randomly pick out an episode from a hat (if possible) and likely get an example of this. I know Pokecommunity hates Ash wants him to die and wants Pikachu impaled on a sword then thrown off a cliff, but suck it up. He's the main character. He's the central focus of the show.
  • Sometimes, a COTD, reoccuring character, or other trio member takes the main plot and Ash is relegated to a sub-plot. The Hearbreak of Brock would be an excellent example of this.
  • Rarely, a COTD, reoccuring (Pallet town cast; regional exclusive characters), supporting cast (Team Rocket) or other trio member gets an entire episode dedicated to them with any other character's involvement being minimal at best and could largely be left out of the episode without losing much in terms of story. Dawn's debut episode is a good example of this. But you've boycotted Pokemon so you might not have seen this. Go West, Young Meowth would be another example.
  • The second and third point do not invalidate the first one.

Charaxes April 25th, 2009 10:09 AM

Actually, May did show some cleavage in her bikini in the 8th movie (you have to look carefully), so Weedle isn't completely off on this.

Randomspot, relax, as everyone has different interpretations on everything, which is part of the fun.

Honestly, you both raise good points, just don't devolve it into a pissing contest. That's not so fun.

randomspot555 April 25th, 2009 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charaxes (Post 4580577)
Actually, May did show some cleavage in her bikini in the 8th movie (you have to look carefully), so Weedle isn't completely off on this.

Randomspot, relax, as everyone has different interpretations on everything, which is part of the fun.

Honestly, you both raise good points, just don't devolve it into a pissing contest. That's not so fun.

I hope my actions aren't out of line. But there's a LOT of character bashing on these forums. Even though I don't love all the characters, I don't like seeing all the hate that is posted. People are/should be free to not like a character. But the excessive hate, especially for the big cast members, is...well, excessive.

(I do think there's a difference between not liking a character and character bashing. I don't like Ritchie. I hope he never appears again and is never referenced again. However, I won't be posting a poll saying "Ritchie: DEATH BY CHRISTIAN EATING LIONS or should he live?"

Charaxes April 25th, 2009 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomspot555 (Post 4580750)
I hope my actions aren't out of line. But there's a LOT of character bashing on these forums. Even though I don't love all the characters, I don't like seeing all the hate that is posted. People are/should be free to not like a character. But the excessive hate, especially for the big cast members, is...well, excessive.

(I do think there's a difference between not liking a character and character bashing. I don't like Ritchie. I hope he never appears again and is never referenced again. However, I won't be posting a poll saying "Ritchie: DEATH BY CHRISTIAN EATING LIONS or should he live?"

Understandable, and we all have to be careful not to be consumed by pique.

You weren't out of line, but I felt the tone of the exchange might have gone out of hand. It happens. Hence, I appeared.

And I do agree about the griping for the sake of it. Pokemon definitely has it, for whatever reason.

(As long as you respect the character's right to exist and acknowledge real life factors that the characters have no control in: the writers, designers, then I have no problem with ya. The onus is on them, really. Although, the fandom shouldn't be knee-jerk in their reactions, either.)

weedle_mchairybug April 25th, 2009 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomspot555 (Post 4579934)
You totally missed my point.

You aren't an accurate judge of how you and your friends act, because obviously you want to portray yourself and the people you associate with in a positive fashion. You could say how mature you are at 10 as much as you want, I don't care. But people have a bias for themselves, and thus your view just doesn't matter because it's likely distorted.

I would rather rely on personal experience than on third party's interpretation of someone else's experience.

Quote:

And your judgment really isn't to be trusted in the first place. You've thought that Satoshi Tajiri created the anime, and have compared your personal one-man Pokemon boycott with the Civil Rights movement and the American Revolution.
First off, our boycott isn't a "one-man" boycott. Heck, I had gotten about 900 signatures in person in my neighborhood/local anime convention, and most of them agreed to the Boycott, heck the first time I did the Petition, the Boycott got announced throughout the school. Second of all, Created By's meaning is exactly what the title implies: it's credits him to actually creating the show.

Quote:

Yeah, I just looked at multiple photos of both of them. They're perfectly normal for a 10 year old and aren't displayed in any sexual fashion.
I've compared the pictures of the both of them, and, sexual or not, that still doesn't change the fact that May's chest IS bigger than Misty's. In fact, I will try to show proof (If I were to do this now, I could only show May of the comparison pics. I'd show Misty's if Serebii.net actually allowed people to click an image and enlarge it in the episode pics section, or at least copy/paste them.)

Quote:

Are you sure you're watching Pokemon? Because I don't see the DD bust that you must be seeing.
I've watched the first season, some of the OI, some of Johto, barely saw any of AG, and I also saw the beginning of DP. Also, I research on the net via Bulbapedia and other places, so even if I didn't, I have enough evidence to compensate.

Quote:

But let's just pretend May did have a big chest. So what? That's not a reason to dislike someone. People don't get to choose how their body looks.
Maybe, but that still doesn't mean she can just flaunt it like that. She would wear a oversized t-shirt should she have big breasts rather than wear a tight outfit exemplifying the breasts.

Quote:

And her stomach is showing too.

Aren't you outraged?
Yeah, so? unlike the butt, and to a slightly lesser extent, breasts, the stomach is not even close to a sexual hormonal organ, and thus, isn't inappropriate. I mean, it's nothing more than a cover for the gastro-intestional track anyways. I mean, the part between the legs, as well as the breasts to a certain extent, on the other hand, IS sexually appealing to the population as a whole. If Dawn and May had exposed their bellies like that in public, I wouldn't care, anyways, like I didn't care about Misty. Now, if the outfit exposing the stomach was something like a Belly-dancer outfit, (be it Misty, May, or Dawn), or the public display of the stomach also involved a skimpy outfit like a bikini, THEN I'd be upset (by public display, I mean in a city, a forest, and any landlocked area. Beaches/bodies of water don't count.). Besides, the stomach was barely even exposed, so I'm not even concerned about that.

Quote:

So they all three show leg. But you whine and moan only about it with May and Dawn.
Big difference between Misty and Dawn, Misty, while her shorts are somewhat short (however, they aren't even close to the kind of short pants that, oh, say, Ono Misty wears in the Japanese version of the manga), they at least cannot expose her panties or other inappropriate parts/garments. Dawn's skirt, on the other hand, does expose her panties among other things.

Quote:

May and Misty are both the same in terms of their bodies, though Misty seems to be a bit taller. That's the only difference I see. And since you're the only person here thinking May has these DD, then I'm betting it's just because you hate May's characters and are just looking for reasons to hate her.
No, the main reason why I hate May's character is because of her personality. She's absolutely no different from the girls from Love Hina. The chest is only part of it. And BTW, I'm not the only person who actually thinks this. Heck, people have been arguing that her chest was too large for her own good since day one of her anime appearance.

Quote:

On Bulbapedia, you kept making edits to Dawn's page trying to remove the Trivia that her debut episode focused on her and you justified that by saying Ash appeared in the last 30 seconds.
The only reason why I did that is because they insisted that it was completely dedicated to her, which was untrue, since the term "Completely dedicated" implies that exactly 100% of the episode had Dawn in it (And Ash had exactly 0% in it. Not .1%, not .01%, but just Zero percent.)

I'm ignoring the last one.

Also, I'm stopping it right now, as I don't want it to get worse by the minute. Besides, Charaxes raises a good point, and I don't even like flame wars, period.

ShadowYashi April 25th, 2009 2:59 PM

Ehhh I like Dawn and Misty and May equally, all three are great characters. I find nothing wrong with her character. The only character that annoy's me is Pikachu, but only when he gets to OHKO's ground types for no damn reason and none of the other electric type's can't.

Aww I thought Ritchie was adorable =3 I never understood the Tracey hate and the TR Trio is just awesome... I just wish Meowth could beat Pikachu in a battle just once... scratch him up realllll good. Then I'll be happy =3 I also don't get why people hate Paul... what, just cause he's a bit of a jerk and releases weak pokemon and is a bit more of an ass than Kanto Gary, people seem to loathe him... but I think he's probably the best Rival for Ash, only seconded to Gary (cause Gary and his Umbreon pwns Ash and Pikachu six ways from sunday, no matter how much he trains) to date and I pray to god, that he doesn't turn into some sympathetic... I've-seen-the-light-and-I won't-be-a-dick-and-treat-pokemon-like-crap-anymore-cause-Ash-beat-me-in-a-league-battle.

Am I the only one who misses Gary being the snarky jerk of a rival from way back when? But then again, if Gary was stil his rival, we wouldn't get the awesomeness that is Paul, I mean its a change from all the nice-guy rival's, Paul's a straight up jerk and his view clash with Ash's, what's not to love... but I'm getting off topic >.>;;;

zenix April 25th, 2009 3:25 PM

I actually really hate the anime for Pokemon, from Hoenn on it got really pathetic, but I do have to agree with you in some way.

Roxasabridged April 25th, 2009 3:59 PM

Y'know, I never even noticed May had 'big breast' and even if she did, who cares? It's an anime, she's not real.

Anyways, I haven't seen much of D/P so I can't say much about Dawn except I don't really like her much... Doesn't seem all that great a character.

randomspot555 April 25th, 2009 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowYashi (Post 4581576)
Ehhh I like Dawn and Misty and May equally, all three are great characters. I find nothing wrong with her character. The only character that annoy's me is Pikachu, but only when he gets to OHKO's ground types for no damn reason and none of the other electric type's can't.

I think it's happened beyond Electric-ground too. I think ghost moves have harmed normal types. But the past few years they've been a lot more consistent with that type of stuff. Some of it may be left up to interperation though, since a Pokemon's typing and/or ability aren't necessarily the same in the anime and the games. Example: Electivire and electric attacks. It takes "very little damage" but doesn't absorb them like in the games.

Vernikova April 25th, 2009 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxasabridged (Post 4581802)
Y'know, I never even noticed May had 'big breast' and even if she did, who cares? It's an anime, she's not real.

I don't see it. Roxas, nothing after this spoiler is directed specifically at you.

Nor do I see why they should be judged on by the way they dress.

Nor by the fan service the writers give us.

That said, characters should only be judged by their actions and their personalities. Since Hikari is still a character on the show, we don't know how she'll turn out in the end. Will she be a nervous wreck? An over-confident coördinator? Until then, I can't say that I hate her because I don't know how she'll turn out at the end. Many people outside of the demographic hated Haruka at her debut but many of those same people turned into fans of her.

Basically, I think that saying you hate a character before they finish their run is premature even though many people, myself included, do it anyway.

ShinjisLover April 25th, 2009 10:07 PM

Well, I don't know about everyone else, but this is why I hate Hikari/Dawn/whatever:

  • Her skirt is too short; she's 10 for God's sakes!
  • She's like a generic Haruka/May except with no character development.
  • She cares too much about appearances.
  • She sucks in general.
  • She's really, really annoying.
  • She always complains when her hair gets messed up.
  • One word: Piplup.
  • Another word: Pachirisu. Not because she had one, but because she released it and then tried to get it back, only to proceed to get mad at Team Rocket because they wanted it. It was wild. WILD!! Fair game.
  • IkariShipping. He's mine, sister! *z-snap*
  • PearlShipping. She's only paired with him because they're the main characters. PenguinShipping and AbilityShipping are definitely better.
  • She's always gotta be the damsel in distress (See: Rise of Darkrai).


I could go on, but then I'd be ranting. Hope this clears some stuff up for at least me. But not everyone hates her, so. .

Taemin April 25th, 2009 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxasabridged (Post 4581802)
Y'know, I never even noticed May had 'big breast' and even if she did, who cares? It's an anime, she's not real.

Honestly, I never noticed either.. I mean, all three of main females have the same breast sizes, because it seems to be the default for most of the shows female characters. To me all three of them seemed fairly flat-chested. o_O Especially when compared to how young girls have been drawn other anime series. If May's seemed bigger, it might just be her outfit, or different angles.. but I never noticed.

Still, Dawn's breasts (or lack their of..) should be no reason to dislike her character. o_o That would be my opinion, anyway.

& You know you're lacking sleep when can argue about the breast size of Pokemon characters, so I'm gonna get going for the night. :/

randomspot555 April 25th, 2009 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowYashi (Post 4581576)
Aww I thought Ritchie was adorable =3

It's not that people hate the character. It's just his character started the (IMO) annoying trend of "Hi. I'm goint to befriend you right before the League, but I'll end up beating you later. Oh, and I battle just like you but I'm responsible unlike you *wink*"

Basically, he's Ash, except more responsible (Pokeball seals).

Quote:

I just wish Meowth could beat Pikachu in a battle just once...
Meowth pretty much considers himself above battling except when the story calls for it. Considering he refuses to learn Pay Day, I don't think he'll be beating much besides Brox' Onix with Fury Swipes.

Quote:

but I think he's probably the best Rival for Ash,
EXACTLY! Someone who gets it.

You don't need to like Paul to enjoy his character. He's great because he's actually different from Ash, acts as a great foil. All of Ash's other rivals basically were very similar to Ash in training methods, bonded with Pokemon, etc...

Really, Gary's overconfidence was his downfall. He probably knew it too. I also question how sincere his overconfidence was, considering Ash and him are childhood friends.

Regigigas April 26th, 2009 7:16 AM

She has 2 normal Pokemon. Though, one of them leaves in one episode, so it's OK now. The hatred is, because she is so whiny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azumi (Post 4576538)
Spoiler:

1) She sees a legendary Pokemon at the beginning of her journey.
2) Piplup hates Dawn at first, but they become fast friends after the Ariados event, much like how Ash protected Pikachu from the Spearows.
3) Mamoswine acted like Charizard at a point of the plot.
4) Piplup refused to evolve, much like how Bulbasaur did.
5) She is the second main character who obtained an electric Pokemon, after Ash. (And I'm not counting the rivals here.)

There's also Ambipom leaving just like Primeape did.

randomspot555 April 26th, 2009 7:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regigigas (Post 4584112)
The hatred is, because she is so whiny.

This was a specific character arc that was themed around her sulkng around. She's learned to deal with loss after her battle with Maylene.

Of course, why count it against her when she acts like a normal 10 year old.

Light Lucario April 26th, 2009 5:06 PM

I don't really hate Dawn and I haven't heard that much hatred for her character around other forums. I just kind of find her more annoying as a trainer. While she does participate in Contests, I feel like she hasn't really been using her team that much other than Piplup. I did like her at the start of D/P, but I became more annoyed with her as she used mostly Piplup and barely used her other Pokemon.

I still forget that she caught a Swinbu since it has not done a thing since she caught it. I only watch the dub, but I hear of things that have happen to her team recently.

I feel that she hasn't really developed as a character. Granted, it is Pokemon, but by the time May had five Pokemon, she had become a trainer who didn't really like Pokemon to a trainer finding her calling with Contests. While I'm not expecting the exact same results from Dawn, considering that there are quite a few differences between how she started and how May started out, I feel like she's still the same kind of character we saw from start of the saga. She isn't as inexperience as she was then, but I don't think that she's really grown that much either.

If Dawn started using more of her other Pokemon or taught them some new moves, then I probably wouldn't be as annoyed with her. She's okay and she obviously cares about her Pokemon, but I do get annoyed with her about her skills as a trainer at times.

Greeneflower April 26th, 2009 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyburn (Post 4573685)
I wouldn't mind pikachu being impaled actually :P

But COTD?

HOW COULD YOU DISS THE CUTEST MOUSE IN THE WORLD!?

Anyway, I like Dawn, and I don't care of her power.. WHAT IS SHE A POKEMON!?

Game Over1375 April 26th, 2009 7:42 PM

Woah, talk about getting out of hand.

*looks at Psyburn*

Dude, you just started a war.

Anyways, I like Misty, May, and Dawn. While I was a bit mad about Misty being replaced by May, she eventually grew on me. I wasn't mad about May being replaced by Dawn though. I figure this will be what the series as an anime will do, replacing the main female character with a girl from the next generation of Pokemon games.

I do admit that Dawn's skirt is a bit too short for a kid's show, but who cares? It is an anime people!

Sweet Smoochum April 26th, 2009 8:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game Over1375 (Post 4586181)
While I was a bit mad about Misty being replaced by May, she eventually grew on me. I wasn't mad about May being replaced by Dawn though. I figure this will be what the series as an anime will do, replacing the main female character with a girl from the next generation of Pokemon games.

I felt the same way, dude.

I don't know why people hate Dawn. Maybe there are those, who are hardcore Misty/May fans, don't like Dawn. I have no problem with Dawn. I like how she's a little more relaxed than the previous two and that she's not flirty with Ash. Sure, she can be a little obsessed with her hair, but what other girly girl isn't? I like how they are giving Dawn shipping options such as Kenny, that Pearl dude, and Gary. For once, a girl who is traveling with Ash likes Gary! :) (I say this because she likes Gary's poetry + b/c their outfits match! How cute!) (Dawn/Gary shipper here.)

Besides, what's wrong with a prepubescent ten year old wearing a skirt? It's not like she is in high school dressed like that. And she is wearing boots with it thus covering up her legs more than the first two. Honestly, how can people find a show starring 10-11 year olds and pokemon "sexual?" I personally think it's wrong to think that way about this show.

Amaruuk April 26th, 2009 8:32 PM

From what I've seen of the DP episodes, I can say that Dawn's actually a decent character. I can't compare her to May, since I haven't watched the seasons with her in it, but I'd say Dawn's more likable than Misty was. She's the one I found annoying. Sure Dawn's hair obsession and tantrums are annoying, but they fit her character. Dawn also seems like someone who'd be easier to get along with than Misty, as well as someone who's more open-minded.

Game Over1375 April 26th, 2009 8:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GymLeaderLily (Post 4586266)
I felt the same way, dude.

I don't know why people hate Dawn. Maybe there are those, who are hardcore Misty/May fans, don't like Dawn. I have no problem with Dawn. I like how she's a little more relaxed than the previous two and that she's not flirty with Ash. Sure, she can be a little obsessed with her hair, but what other girly girl isn't? I like how they are giving Dawn shipping options such as Kenny, that Pearl dude, and Gary. For once, a girl who is traveling with Ash likes Gary! :) (I say this because she likes Gary's poetry + b/c their outfits match! How cute!) (Dawn/Gary shipper here.)

Besides, what's wrong with a prepubescent ten year old wearing a skirt? It's not like she is in high school dressed like that. And she is wearing boots with it thus covering up her legs more than the first two. Honestly, how can people find a show starring 10-11 year olds and pokemon "sexual?" I personally think it's wrong to think that way about this show.

I agree with you as well. I just wish a few more people think about this like we and few others have...

Psyburn April 27th, 2009 5:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game Over1375 (Post 4586181)
Woah, talk about getting out of hand.

*looks at Psyburn*

Dude, you just started a war.

Its a curse im afraid :P

Quote:

Besides, what's wrong with a prepubescent ten year old wearing a skirt? It's not like she is in high school dressed like that. And she is wearing boots with it thus covering up her legs more than the first two. Honestly, how can people find a show starring 10-11 year olds and pokemon "sexual?" I personally think it's wrong to think that way about this show.
Exactly. Design choices for a character should not be the equivalent of the overall quality of the character. If people are simply citing a skirt as to why a character is "bad", then you have no real complaints against the character........ rather than you being pissed that she replaced an earlier companion. And Also, complaining about sexuality in japanese cartoons is probably a waste of time, especially since there are actually other shows where girls as young as 6 get raped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greeneflower (Post 4586148)
HOW COULD YOU DISS THE CUTEST MOUSE IN THE WORLD!?

When the little rodent is shoved down my throat 24/7, it deserves my wrath.

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Dawn's non-dubbed name...
Why...why do people insist on using non dubbed names?

Roxasabridged April 27th, 2009 8:35 AM

Quote:

Why...why do people insist on using non dubbed names?
Probably because it's seen as their real/better name.

Jorah April 27th, 2009 9:43 AM

I don't hate Dawn, I like her, although she isn't really one of my favourite characters. I like how she's girly and cares how her hair looks because it's quite funny when you contrast it with Ash who doesn't care at all and doesn't see why he should because he wears a hat XD Although, in a future episode when his hair goes poofy, he cares just as much as Dawn XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psyburn (Post 4586852)
Why...why do people insist on using non dubbed names?

Because they watch the Japanese version :P

Unown_ April 27th, 2009 10:27 AM

Same here. I don't hate her. I liked her overreacting personality at the start of the series, but lately that has disappeared into thin air. She's an OK character in my book.

Haza April 27th, 2009 10:35 AM

Maybe its because her voice is a bit annoying and her Pokemon are boring. I dont hate her though, I just find her boring.

Inferno1 April 27th, 2009 11:18 PM

It is the same reason May was hated people did not want to see the previous female traveler leave. It is a never ending cycle the girl who replaces dawn will be just as hated

JP April 28th, 2009 12:11 PM

I myself have nothing against her. I can't say I have a hatred of any main character though, and when it comes to comparing Misty, May and Dawn, I think they're all equally entertaining and interesting; as well as they do what they were meant to be doing in the series.

Kitty! April 28th, 2009 2:05 PM

I have this weird thing with Hikari.
I remember when she was first introduced, and I started watching the Japanese D/P episodes right when they came out ..I fell in love with this girl. She was so cute and funny. I think once the dub came out ..I got sick of her ..(it might have been because of her voice) ..or maybe because her personality kept changing.

ATM, she seems kinda boring. I miss how she was back in the beginning. I mean she's weird. Haha, sometimes I like her ..sometimes I hate her.

At one point, I was going on this total spasm with her. I liked her for a few weeks ..but then hated her ...but then liked her again ...and then hate, and now I'm kinda just yeeeah. xD

Hiidora April 29th, 2009 10:17 PM

People love Dawn, Who would hate her?

Dawn Is like a girl ash in a micro mini skirt and there for everybody loves her. In my opinion she is fun and entertaining, A heck of a lot better then May. Which brings me to the question "Why does everybody hate may?" I hate her, and I don't know why. I just do.

Roxasabridged April 30th, 2009 7:47 AM

I just saw an episode of D/P this morning, and I remembered why I don't like her: Her voice kills my ears...

Charaxes April 30th, 2009 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiidora (Post 4594993)
People love Dawn, Who would hate her?

Dawn Is like a girl ash in a micro mini skirt and there for everybody loves her. In my opinion she is fun and entertaining, A heck of a lot better then May. Which brings me to the question "Why does everybody hate may?" I hate her, and I don't know why. I just do.

I wish more people would answer their own question like you have. No, I'm not being sardonic.

Here's a fun question: where was it that she started to turn in your eyes? Her first Contest, her first actual capture, what motivated you to say, "screw this, I'm not liking her anymore"?

weedle_mchairybug May 1st, 2009 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charaxes (Post 4597840)
I wish more people would answer their own question like you have. No, I'm not being sardonic.

Here's a fun question: where was it that she started to turn in your eyes? Her first Contest, her first actual capture, what motivated you to say, "screw this, I'm not liking her anymore"?

If Buneary was her first actual capture, then definitely by that point (The way she acted in the beginning of that episode, as well as that little fit she made at Brock near the middle, made me hate her.).

Psyburn May 4th, 2009 5:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiidora (Post 4594993)
People love Dawn, Who would hate her?

Dawn Is like a girl ash in a micro mini skirt and there for everybody loves her. In my opinion she is fun and entertaining, A heck of a lot better then May. Which brings me to the question "Why does everybody hate may?" I hate her, and I don't know why. I just do.

You could read through the topic and see for yourself >_>

peteron85 July 13th, 2009 8:27 PM

I dislike dawn because shes just plain boring. She has no clue whats shes doing, and all she likes is pokemon contests, which are even more dull than her. Plus the voices of her Piplup and Buneary annoy the hell out of me.

Wings Don't Cry July 13th, 2009 8:43 PM

I think Dawn was a cool character, I don't really like her voice in the English dub though, but she's alright and I don't want people to compare her to May because May was just a NO, same goes with her brother.

Unown_ July 13th, 2009 10:01 PM

This thread is over a month old, which means the dicussion has come to and end. If you 'd wish to discuss the topic, feel free to start a new thread.


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