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-   -   So..can anyone actually explain the hatred amongst Dawn? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=176533)

Psyburn April 24th, 2009 5:43 AM

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her skirt is also partially the reason why I disliked her, as I feel that outfits like that are a bad influence to females.
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er dress is a little too short
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her skirt is shortertest piece of clothing in Pokemon history
.............................im speechless. Dawn's particular clothing is less (well not at all) sexually explicit compared to Misty's tank and shorts that ride too high, and her skirt is the "shortest"* thing in pokemon history?

This is not really a reason at all to hate character.

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Dawn throws tantrums too much.
I can agree on that :P

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she her inexperience is so pitiful it makes me want to chuck something at her
Ok...maybe I missed a few details but if I recall...isn't she a beginning trainer? Someone who is still learning about how to properly train catch pokemon? Why wouldn't her experience be bad?

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I love Hikari
Who the hell is Hikari?

Unown_ April 24th, 2009 8:58 AM

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Originally Posted by Azumi (Post 4576538)
I would think that Dawn is hated because she looks like a replica of Ash. (Or maybe the reason why I don't like her that much...) Let me see...

You might want to put events that have are yet to happen in the dub between spoiler tags. There members out there who don't like spoilers...

BUG♥CATCHER★BREEZE April 24th, 2009 12:35 PM

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Originally Posted by Psyburn (Post 4576592)
Who the hell is Hikari?

Dawn's non-dubbed name...

I could start this debate with a completely unrelated thing ...(God I want to kill May's game counterpart, because she isn't a rival in any way at all), BUT I'm not that Magikarp-brained.

I don't see what is wrong with Dawn. I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that... Dawn is 10. I know 10 year olds. People who are ten and completely different from those who have matured and grown up.

So she has a lot in common with Ash. In my opinion, this series seems to referring back to older episodes - the whole Piplup is rebelling against its trainer and such forth. And besides the younger viewers weren't even BORN when I Choose You was aired... ¬¬

As for her skirt - the other girls were just as scantily dressed. It is an anime...!

Dawn is different, because she doesn't let Ash take the spotlight. Why isn't that a good thing, I mean there are HUNDREDS of Ash related episdoes.

Dawn isn't really breaking the mould, with the whole co-ordinator thing, but she actuallu does something other than just watch Ash train his Pokémon...

weedle_mchairybug April 24th, 2009 12:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Sclera (Post 4577410)
I don't see what is wrong with Dawn. I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that... Dawn is 10. I know 10 year olds. People who are ten and completely different from those who have matured and grown up.

See, the thing is, ten year olds usually have a sense of maturity that's higher than most kids prior to teen years. Dawn is acting more like a four-year old.

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So she has a lot in common with Ash. In my opinion, this series seems to referring back to older episodes - the whole Piplup is rebelling against its trainer and such forth. And besides the younger viewers weren't even BORN when I Choose You was aired... ¬¬
Even IF the younger viewers weren't born when I Choose You was aired, that doesn't mean they have to make Dawn like Ash every time, especially since that rationale didn't stop the writers from continuously referencing certain aspects of the anime that these same viewers would NOT know about (eg, Jessie's old Blissey friend, Ash's Caterpie's capture, Ash's Butterfree's release, Brock mentioning his Onix, etc, etc.)

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As for her skirt - the other girls were just as scantily dressed. It is an anime...!
I can agree with May (for goodness sakes, May, at least wear an oversized t-shirt so you won't flaunt that rack of yours easily). But I didn't see how Misty was scantily clad. I mean, sure, her shorts were... a bit tiny, but, then again, so are most school-endorsed gym outfits, and no-one's complaining about that. Heck, she's at least keeping her pants up (the over-alls come to mind), and I don't see how a stomach is even close to sexy. I can understand why the behind or even the chest would be considered such, but for goodness sakes, it's just a stomach.

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Dawn is different, because she doesn't let Ash take the spotlight. Why isn't that a good thing, I mean there are HUNDREDS of Ash related episdoes.
Hey, I can name a ton of episodes that doesn't have Ash at the spotlight. Heck, even Kanto didn't focus on Ash much. Dawn didn't even take away Ash's spotlight, he barely even had it in the first place. I'll be happey to name all the episodes where Ash wasn't in the spotlight (or at the very least, wasn't completely focused on the spotlight).

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Dawn isn't really breaking the mould, with the whole co-ordinator thing, but she actuallu does something other than just watch Ash train his Pokémon...
Actually, Misty did do far more than "just watch Ash train his Pokemon". Actually, the only one of the main cast who actually did only just watch Ash train his pokemon for his entire run was Max. I guess you could also say Tracey and Brock, but still.

Vernikova April 24th, 2009 1:22 PM

I like Hikari. She isn't my favorite character but I like her on the show. I hope the next female star is even more likeable and even a trainer.

randomspot555 April 24th, 2009 2:17 PM

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug (Post 4577491)
See, the thing is, ten year olds usually have a sense of maturity that's higher than most kids prior to teen years. Dawn is acting more like a four-year old.

No, really, 10 year olds really aren't mature. They overreact. They get emotional, a lot, over what can be seen as something that people shouldn't get emotional about. The same can be said of ALL of the main cast.

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Even IF the younger viewers weren't born when I Choose You was aired, that doesn't mean they have to make Dawn like Ash every time, especially since that rationale didn't stop the writers from continuously referencing certain aspects of the anime that these same viewers would NOT know about (eg, Jessie's old Blissey friend, Ash's Caterpie's capture, Ash's Butterfree's release, Brock mentioning his Onix, etc, etc.)
Referencing episodes is bad?

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I can agree with May (for goodness sakes, May, at least wear an oversized t-shirt so you won't flaunt that rack of yours easily). But I didn't see how Misty was scantily clad. I mean, sure, her shorts were... a bit tiny, but, then again, so are most school-endorsed gym outfits, and no-one's complaining about that. Heck, she's at least keeping her pants up (the over-alls come to mind), and I don't see how a stomach is even close to sexy. I can understand why the behind or even the chest would be considered such, but for goodness sakes, it's just a stomach.
I love the double standard. May shows off this mythical huge bust, Dawn has the short skirt, but Misty with short shorts and a same equally mythical huge bust? You rationalize it away.

Her shorts are like gym shorts? But she isn't in a gym. She's wearing these casually, walking around, every day.

None of their busts are all that unusual, and they aren't displayed in any sexual way. That's why they can show skin from all three girls, but not get any flack from any women's rights group. Because they aren't displayed in any sexual way.

Here's some news for you: Nobody in Pokemon is sexy. In fact, they are very much de-sexualized. Ever seen a nipple when a male on the show is shirtless?

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Heck, even Kanto didn't focus on Ash much.
I'm pretty certain the vast majority of episodes in Kanto were centered on Ash. So how does that translate into "didn't focus on Ash much"?

weedle_mchairybug April 24th, 2009 3:31 PM

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Originally Posted by randomspot555 (Post 4577832)
No, really, 10 year olds really aren't mature. They overreact. They get emotional, a lot, over what can be seen as something that people shouldn't get emotional about. The same can be said of ALL of the main cast.

I have memories of when I was ten, as well as many of my friends when they were ten, and none of them were even that emotional. In fact, many of them seemed more like miniature adults.

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Referencing episodes is bad?
No, I was just saying that it's pointless to make Dawn a copycat when they're already referencing past events without resorting to making Dawn copy Ash.

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I love the double standard. May shows off this mythical huge bust, Dawn has the short skirt, but Misty with short shorts and a same equally mythical huge bust? You rationalize it away.
You have got to be kidding me... MISTY DOESN'T HAVE A CHEST!!! Heck, JJM even stated it in "Beauty and the Beach"! They even animated her in such ways where it's absolutely clear that she doesn't have one. May, on the other hand, has been shown with a rack since day one up until her appearance in DP. Heck, even her Bathing suits show her with one, and seeing how Misty was considered to be flat-chested in episodes where She's in a bathing suit, that's saying a lot.

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Her shorts are like gym shorts? But she isn't in a gym. She's wearing these casually, walking around, every day.
Well, at least it's better than her appearance in Electric Tale of Pikachu, and at least her pants aren't exposing any undergarments (heck, she's even wearing over-alls.)

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None of their busts are all that unusual, and they aren't displayed in any sexual way.
Have you even seen May's chest?! That thing is bulging out of her shirt during Hoenn, and even Battle Frontier to a certain extent. In fact, one can argue

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That's why they can show skin from all three girls, but not get any flack from any women's rights group. Because they aren't displayed in any sexual way.
Yeah, and these so-called "Womens right" groups haven't flacked "Love Hina", "WitchBlade", "Playboy Magazine", "Penthouse", or any of those things either despite their clearly evoking women's rights. Honestly, the only reason they aren't doing it is out of pure ignorance, because otherwise, the examples listed above would be banned, burned to the ground, and the people responsible for their conception thrown in jail.

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Here's some news for you: Nobody in Pokemon is sexy. In fact, they are very much de-sexualized. Ever seen a nipple when a male on the show is shirtless?
I see you conveniently forgot "The Kangaskhan Kid" and Mayor in the episode of the Giant Bulbasaur mutant. Besides, I'm straight, and I don't even see your point, anyways.

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I'm pretty certain the vast majority of episodes in Kanto were centered on Ash. So how does that translate into "didn't focus on Ash much"?
Ok... "Ash catches a Pokemon" had Misty being a significant focus (for goodness sakes, a significant portion of the episode dealt with her fear on Caterpie and learning to cope with it.), The Charmander capture episode seemed more like a Brock-centric episode than an Ash-centric episode (The only thing he did in the episode was capture Charmander), Princess vs. Princess wasn't even focused on Ash, Our Hero Meowth was a Meowth Centric episode, same deal with Go west, young meowth, The Breeding Center Secret was a Misty Centric episode, Misty Mermaid, well, the central character of the episode was obvious, Pokemon Shipwreck was more of a Misty episode, Island of the Giant Pokemon actually focused more on the Pokemon than on Ash, or any of the humans, for that matter, Tentacool and Tentacruel centered on Misty, so did "Beauty and the Beach", "Battle of the Badge" was more of a Team Rocket episode than an Ash episode, The episode where Brock got eevee, well, evidence enough. Who get's to keep togepi focused on Misty. The episode involving the Backpack thief was focused on Misty. March of the Exeggutor was a Misty episode, The Ghost of Maiden's Peak focused on Brock, Waterflowers of Cerulean City was a Misty episode, Light's Camera and Quack-tion was a Misty episode, Misty's bond with Oddish played a significant part in "Bulbasaur and the Hidden village", not to mention that the same episode had Brock getting a crush on Melaine, Pikachu's Goodbye was more focused on Pikachu than on Ash, "Riddle me this" was technically a Misty episode (Seeing how she was the reason why Ash even got his chance to battle Blaine in the first place), The Fake-Leaf Stone episode was focused on Brock, and some episodes didn't even focus on any of the main characters at all (eg, Ditto's Mysterious mansion, The Bridge Bike Gang, all of those episodes).

In fact, the only episodes that were truly dedicated to Ash (by that, I mean it focused on him, him and him alone) were the first episode, the Samurai episode, the Vermillion gym, Battle aboard the St. Anne, Bye-Bye Butterfree, the Sabrina Arc, Primape, Erika, Koga, the rematch with Blaine, and the League itself (especially since, for a time that's supposed to be focused on Ash, the episodes where Ash was training for the league ironically barely even focused on him.).

randomspot555 April 24th, 2009 6:06 PM

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug (Post 4578115)
I have memories of when I was ten, as well as many of my friends when they were ten, and none of them were even that emotional. In fact, many of them seemed more like miniature adults.

People's accounts of their own memories are rarely that accurate, and your judgement is questionable to begin with.

But let's just pretend it is accurate, that you and your friends were like "miniature adults", then that isn't the norm.

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No, I was just saying that it's pointless to make Dawn a copycat when they're already referencing past events without resorting to making Dawn copy Ash.
I don't see how it's making another Ash if they've shared some similar experiences. It's a good way to have characters able to bond.

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You have got to be kidding me... MISTY DOESN'T HAVE A CHEST!!!
She most certainly does. She's 10. Women develop much earlier than men.

I'm not going to compare bust sizes of 10 year old animated female characters, because I'm not a creep. If you've studied bust sizes of the female characters...peaches. But I'm not going to. But it's safe to say that none of them are overtly big for how they're body is portrayed, and it's certainly not done so in a sexual fashion.

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Heck, JJM even stated it in "Beauty and the Beach"!
I'll say this slowly:

They. Are. The. Bad. Guys. They insult people. Not to speak truth.

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I see you conveniently forgot "The Kangaskhan Kid" and Mayor in the episode of the Giant Bulbasaur mutant.
Those are adults. The children in Pokemon don't.

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Besides, I'm straight,
I could care less.

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and I don't even see your point, anyways.
The point is that none of the characters in Pokemon are portrayed in a sexual way because anything that can be seen as sexual maturity just isn't there. Has anyone ever shaved in a Pokemon episode or had a 5 o clock shadow? I could go ahead and list all the signs of puberty, but that sounds fairly creepy and I hope I don't have to explain it to this board. But it's safe to say that that kind of stuff just isn't shown in Pokemon.

Dawn/May/Misty can "show" as much leg as they want because they aren't there as sex objects and aren't portrayed as such. They may be seen as pretty by some, maybe attractive even. But not sexy.

As to your paragraph on episodes that supposedly focus on other character: You give huge credit for sub-plots and count it as an episdoe that focuses on a character other than Ash (even though it's obvious that it focuses on Ash. Cmon, the title of the episode is "ash catches a Pokemon", not "Misty hates bug Pokemon."). And then you discredit Ash any time he has a sub-plot in a supporting character driven episode. It's a double standard.

The anime is focused on Ash. Sorry. That's not up for debate. It's a fact. Anything else is a complete delusion.

Taemin April 24th, 2009 9:51 PM

I don't hate Dawn.. she just annoys me. D:

Sometimes she's okay, but generally I'm just not too fond of her character.

I couldn't tell you why. o__O She just bothers me, for some reason. Part of it might be her voice, honestly. In the Japanese AND the dub. Keyword there being 'part'.

weedle_mchairybug April 25th, 2009 4:16 AM

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Originally Posted by randomspot555 (Post 4578545)
People's accounts of their own memories are rarely that accurate, and your judgement is questionable to begin with.

But let's just pretend it is accurate, that you and your friends were like "miniature adults", then that isn't the norm.

I've been to school with them, observed their behavior every time during my childhood, and none of my friends even acted close to that stereotype, even WHEN they were 10. Even outside of school, when I noticed them elsewhere, they were absolutely nothing like that description you gave of 10 year olds. And anyways, Anything I've experienced survives the test of time, and remains very vivid. Heck, even something like a brief glimpse at a commercial that I saw several years to over a decade ago of my life I remember as if I saw yesterday.

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I don't see how it's making another Ash if they've shared some similar experiences. It's a good way to have characters able to bond.
Yeah, and Ritchie was similar to Ash in many respects, thus theoretically having those characters being bonded, thus the fanbase would like that. heck, Tracey would have been very popular due to the fact that he shares many similarities to Brock, and the last time I checked, people viewed them as unfavorable, to say the least, and outright clones at worst (not that I mind clones, of course, but still.).

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She most certainly does. She's 10. Women develop much earlier than men.
That's true. BUT! That doesn't mean that they develop that much in May's case.

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I'm not going to compare bust sizes of 10 year old animated female characters, because I'm not a creep. If you've studied bust sizes of the female characters...peaches. But I'm not going to. But it's safe to say that none of them are overtly big for how they're body is portrayed, and it's certainly not done so in a sexual fashion.
May's chest IS overly big, however. Heck, looking at my friends/peers at my school, they DEFINITELY weren't that big at that age.

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I'll say this slowly:

They. Are. The. Bad. Guys. They insult people. Not to speak truth.
Well, EXCLUDING Team Rocket, there's still the fact that Ash himself stated after seeing her in a bikini that "she actually looks like a girl", which implies something that I can't really say since this is a kid's website. Keep in mind, BTW, that Ash is a good guy. Not to mention, in that same episode, Misty's chest was barely even present, especially when you compare it to, say, May in a Bikini in Early AG.

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The point is that none of the characters in Pokemon are portrayed in a sexual way because anything that can be seen as sexual maturity just isn't there. Has anyone ever shaved in a Pokemon episode or had a 5 o clock shadow? I could go ahead and list all the signs of puberty, but that sounds fairly creepy and I hope I don't have to explain it to this board. But it's safe to say that that kind of stuff just isn't shown in Pokemon.
Yeah, you do realize that Brock's hormones are off the charts on the Show, right?

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Dawn/May/Misty can "show" as much leg as they want because they aren't there as sex objects and aren't portrayed as such. They may be seen as pretty by some, maybe attractive even. But not sexy.
Alright. Her shorts may be too short, but they were at least not showing her panties (besides, they were definitely longer than in Ono's Pokemon Manga, and those were definitely short. So short, in fact that certain parts of her legs were showing.).

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As to your paragraph on episodes that supposedly focus on other character: You give huge credit for sub-plots and count it as an episdoe that focuses on a character other than Ash (even though it's obvious that it focuses on Ash. Cmon, the title of the episode is "ash catches a Pokemon", not "Misty hates bug Pokemon."). And then you discredit Ash any time he has a sub-plot in a supporting character driven episode. It's a double standard.
What I believe is that in order for an episode to focus on a character, it has to focus on him, him and him alone/her, her, and her alone (leaving the other characters with little or no focus. for example, Go West, Young Meowth, where the main protagonists only got minimal screentime at best.). When I pointed out that the characters got focus in those episodes, I wasn't saying that those episodes focused on them (at least, not completely), I was just saying that Ash wasn't the focus of the episode (that is, it wasn't focused on him, him and him alone.).

And even IF I was doing double-standard, you're no different in regards to the other characters, saying that Episodes Ash was in focused on him primarily, and refusing to acknowledge that the other characters, like Misty and Brock, actually did focus on them, anyways.

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The anime is focused on Ash. Sorry. That's not up for debate. It's a fact. Anything else is a complete delusion.
Sure, it focused on Ash, but then again, it focused on Misty, Brock, Tracey, May, Max, Dawn, and even Team Rocket. In order for the show to be focused on someone, it needs to be all the time, and in order to prove they aren't the stars of the show, they would get barely any focus (like, a millisecond's worth of focus.).

Now, if only one episode in the entire season, or heck, even the entire series, focused on the main characters other than Ash, and Ash got all the rest, then yes, the Anime focusing on Ash would DEFINITELY be fact.

randomspot555 April 25th, 2009 6:29 AM

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug (Post 4579659)
I've been to school with them, observed their behavior every time during my childhood, and none of my friends even acted close to that stereotype, even WHEN they were 10. Even outside of school, when I noticed them elsewhere, they were absolutely nothing like that description you gave of 10 year olds. And anyways, Anything I've experienced survives the test of time, and remains very vivid. Heck, even something like a brief glimpse at a commercial that I saw several years to over a decade ago of my life I remember as if I saw yesterday.

You totally missed my point.

You aren't an accurate judge of how you and your friends act, because obviously you want to portray yourself and the people you associate with in a positive fashion. You could say how mature you are at 10 as much as you want, I don't care. But people have a bias for themselves, and thus your view just doesn't matter because it's likely distorted.

And your judgment really isn't to be trusted in the first place. You've thought that Satoshi Tajiri created the anime, and have compared your personal one-man Pokemon boycott with the Civil Rights movement and the American Revolution.



Yeah, and Ritchie was similar to Ash in many respects, thus theoretically having those characters being bonded, thus the fanbase would like that. heck, Tracey would have been very popular due to the fact that he shares many similarities to Brock, and the last time I checked, people viewed them as unfavorable, to say the least, and outright clones at worst (not that I mind clones, of course, but still.).

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May's chest IS overly big, however. Heck, looking at my friends/peers at my school, they DEFINITELY weren't that big at that age.
Yeah, I just looked at multiple photos of both of them. They're perfectly normal for a 10 year old and aren't displayed in any sexual fashion.

Are you sure you're watching Pokemon? Because I don't see the DD bust that you must be seeing.

But let's just pretend May did have a big chest. So what? That's not a reason to dislike someone. People don't get to choose how their body looks.

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Yeah, you do realize that Brock's hormones are off the charts on the Show, right?
Again, you totally missed my point. Pokemon's main characters are very desexualized. You don't see nipples or facial or chest hair on any of the main characters or other characters of the same age in the many beach episodes, you don't see anyone shaving. TLDR is no one seems to have hit puberty/

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Alright. Her shorts may be too short, but they were at least not showing her panties (besides, they were definitely longer than in Ono's Pokemon Manga, and those were definitely short. So short, in fact that certain parts of her legs were showing.).
And her stomach is showing too.

Aren't you outraged?

Well, of course you aren't. Misty is your favorite and you hate the other two.

So they all three show leg. But you whine and moan only about it with May and Dawn.

May and Misty are both the same in terms of their bodies, though Misty seems to be a bit taller. That's the only difference I see. And since you're the only person here thinking May has these DD, then I'm betting it's just because you hate May's characters and are just looking for reasons to hate her.

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What I believe is that in order for an episode to focus on a character, it has to focus on him, him and him alone/her, her, and her alone (leaving the other characters with little or no focus. for example, Go West, Young Meowth, where the main protagonists only got minimal screentime at best.).
On Bulbapedia, you kept making edits to Dawn's page trying to remove the Trivia that her debut episode focused on her and you justified that by saying Ash appeared in the last 30 seconds.

Here are the facts:

  • The anime's central focus is Ash. He and his Pokemon get the vast majority of screen time. In most episodes, even if some other character(S) get a sub-plot, Ash gets the main plot. No example listed, because you could randomly pick out an episode from a hat (if possible) and likely get an example of this. I know Pokecommunity hates Ash wants him to die and wants Pikachu impaled on a sword then thrown off a cliff, but suck it up. He's the main character. He's the central focus of the show.
  • Sometimes, a COTD, reoccuring character, or other trio member takes the main plot and Ash is relegated to a sub-plot. The Hearbreak of Brock would be an excellent example of this.
  • Rarely, a COTD, reoccuring (Pallet town cast; regional exclusive characters), supporting cast (Team Rocket) or other trio member gets an entire episode dedicated to them with any other character's involvement being minimal at best and could largely be left out of the episode without losing much in terms of story. Dawn's debut episode is a good example of this. But you've boycotted Pokemon so you might not have seen this. Go West, Young Meowth would be another example.
  • The second and third point do not invalidate the first one.

Charaxes April 25th, 2009 10:09 AM

Actually, May did show some cleavage in her bikini in the 8th movie (you have to look carefully), so Weedle isn't completely off on this.

Randomspot, relax, as everyone has different interpretations on everything, which is part of the fun.

Honestly, you both raise good points, just don't devolve it into a pissing contest. That's not so fun.

randomspot555 April 25th, 2009 10:55 AM

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Originally Posted by Charaxes (Post 4580577)
Actually, May did show some cleavage in her bikini in the 8th movie (you have to look carefully), so Weedle isn't completely off on this.

Randomspot, relax, as everyone has different interpretations on everything, which is part of the fun.

Honestly, you both raise good points, just don't devolve it into a pissing contest. That's not so fun.

I hope my actions aren't out of line. But there's a LOT of character bashing on these forums. Even though I don't love all the characters, I don't like seeing all the hate that is posted. People are/should be free to not like a character. But the excessive hate, especially for the big cast members, is...well, excessive.

(I do think there's a difference between not liking a character and character bashing. I don't like Ritchie. I hope he never appears again and is never referenced again. However, I won't be posting a poll saying "Ritchie: DEATH BY CHRISTIAN EATING LIONS or should he live?"

Charaxes April 25th, 2009 12:06 PM

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Originally Posted by randomspot555 (Post 4580750)
I hope my actions aren't out of line. But there's a LOT of character bashing on these forums. Even though I don't love all the characters, I don't like seeing all the hate that is posted. People are/should be free to not like a character. But the excessive hate, especially for the big cast members, is...well, excessive.

(I do think there's a difference between not liking a character and character bashing. I don't like Ritchie. I hope he never appears again and is never referenced again. However, I won't be posting a poll saying "Ritchie: DEATH BY CHRISTIAN EATING LIONS or should he live?"

Understandable, and we all have to be careful not to be consumed by pique.

You weren't out of line, but I felt the tone of the exchange might have gone out of hand. It happens. Hence, I appeared.

And I do agree about the griping for the sake of it. Pokemon definitely has it, for whatever reason.

(As long as you respect the character's right to exist and acknowledge real life factors that the characters have no control in: the writers, designers, then I have no problem with ya. The onus is on them, really. Although, the fandom shouldn't be knee-jerk in their reactions, either.)

weedle_mchairybug April 25th, 2009 1:40 PM

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Originally Posted by randomspot555 (Post 4579934)
You totally missed my point.

You aren't an accurate judge of how you and your friends act, because obviously you want to portray yourself and the people you associate with in a positive fashion. You could say how mature you are at 10 as much as you want, I don't care. But people have a bias for themselves, and thus your view just doesn't matter because it's likely distorted.

I would rather rely on personal experience than on third party's interpretation of someone else's experience.

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And your judgment really isn't to be trusted in the first place. You've thought that Satoshi Tajiri created the anime, and have compared your personal one-man Pokemon boycott with the Civil Rights movement and the American Revolution.
First off, our boycott isn't a "one-man" boycott. Heck, I had gotten about 900 signatures in person in my neighborhood/local anime convention, and most of them agreed to the Boycott, heck the first time I did the Petition, the Boycott got announced throughout the school. Second of all, Created By's meaning is exactly what the title implies: it's credits him to actually creating the show.

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Yeah, I just looked at multiple photos of both of them. They're perfectly normal for a 10 year old and aren't displayed in any sexual fashion.
I've compared the pictures of the both of them, and, sexual or not, that still doesn't change the fact that May's chest IS bigger than Misty's. In fact, I will try to show proof (If I were to do this now, I could only show May of the comparison pics. I'd show Misty's if Serebii.net actually allowed people to click an image and enlarge it in the episode pics section, or at least copy/paste them.)

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Are you sure you're watching Pokemon? Because I don't see the DD bust that you must be seeing.
I've watched the first season, some of the OI, some of Johto, barely saw any of AG, and I also saw the beginning of DP. Also, I research on the net via Bulbapedia and other places, so even if I didn't, I have enough evidence to compensate.

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But let's just pretend May did have a big chest. So what? That's not a reason to dislike someone. People don't get to choose how their body looks.
Maybe, but that still doesn't mean she can just flaunt it like that. She would wear a oversized t-shirt should she have big breasts rather than wear a tight outfit exemplifying the breasts.

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And her stomach is showing too.

Aren't you outraged?
Yeah, so? unlike the butt, and to a slightly lesser extent, breasts, the stomach is not even close to a sexual hormonal organ, and thus, isn't inappropriate. I mean, it's nothing more than a cover for the gastro-intestional track anyways. I mean, the part between the legs, as well as the breasts to a certain extent, on the other hand, IS sexually appealing to the population as a whole. If Dawn and May had exposed their bellies like that in public, I wouldn't care, anyways, like I didn't care about Misty. Now, if the outfit exposing the stomach was something like a Belly-dancer outfit, (be it Misty, May, or Dawn), or the public display of the stomach also involved a skimpy outfit like a bikini, THEN I'd be upset (by public display, I mean in a city, a forest, and any landlocked area. Beaches/bodies of water don't count.). Besides, the stomach was barely even exposed, so I'm not even concerned about that.

Quote:

So they all three show leg. But you whine and moan only about it with May and Dawn.
Big difference between Misty and Dawn, Misty, while her shorts are somewhat short (however, they aren't even close to the kind of short pants that, oh, say, Ono Misty wears in the Japanese version of the manga), they at least cannot expose her panties or other inappropriate parts/garments. Dawn's skirt, on the other hand, does expose her panties among other things.

Quote:

May and Misty are both the same in terms of their bodies, though Misty seems to be a bit taller. That's the only difference I see. And since you're the only person here thinking May has these DD, then I'm betting it's just because you hate May's characters and are just looking for reasons to hate her.
No, the main reason why I hate May's character is because of her personality. She's absolutely no different from the girls from Love Hina. The chest is only part of it. And BTW, I'm not the only person who actually thinks this. Heck, people have been arguing that her chest was too large for her own good since day one of her anime appearance.

Quote:

On Bulbapedia, you kept making edits to Dawn's page trying to remove the Trivia that her debut episode focused on her and you justified that by saying Ash appeared in the last 30 seconds.
The only reason why I did that is because they insisted that it was completely dedicated to her, which was untrue, since the term "Completely dedicated" implies that exactly 100% of the episode had Dawn in it (And Ash had exactly 0% in it. Not .1%, not .01%, but just Zero percent.)

I'm ignoring the last one.

Also, I'm stopping it right now, as I don't want it to get worse by the minute. Besides, Charaxes raises a good point, and I don't even like flame wars, period.

ShadowYashi April 25th, 2009 2:59 PM

Ehhh I like Dawn and Misty and May equally, all three are great characters. I find nothing wrong with her character. The only character that annoy's me is Pikachu, but only when he gets to OHKO's ground types for no damn reason and none of the other electric type's can't.

Aww I thought Ritchie was adorable =3 I never understood the Tracey hate and the TR Trio is just awesome... I just wish Meowth could beat Pikachu in a battle just once... scratch him up realllll good. Then I'll be happy =3 I also don't get why people hate Paul... what, just cause he's a bit of a jerk and releases weak pokemon and is a bit more of an ass than Kanto Gary, people seem to loathe him... but I think he's probably the best Rival for Ash, only seconded to Gary (cause Gary and his Umbreon pwns Ash and Pikachu six ways from sunday, no matter how much he trains) to date and I pray to god, that he doesn't turn into some sympathetic... I've-seen-the-light-and-I won't-be-a-dick-and-treat-pokemon-like-crap-anymore-cause-Ash-beat-me-in-a-league-battle.

Am I the only one who misses Gary being the snarky jerk of a rival from way back when? But then again, if Gary was stil his rival, we wouldn't get the awesomeness that is Paul, I mean its a change from all the nice-guy rival's, Paul's a straight up jerk and his view clash with Ash's, what's not to love... but I'm getting off topic >.>;;;

zenix April 25th, 2009 3:25 PM

I actually really hate the anime for Pokemon, from Hoenn on it got really pathetic, but I do have to agree with you in some way.

Roxasabridged April 25th, 2009 3:59 PM

Y'know, I never even noticed May had 'big breast' and even if she did, who cares? It's an anime, she's not real.

Anyways, I haven't seen much of D/P so I can't say much about Dawn except I don't really like her much... Doesn't seem all that great a character.

randomspot555 April 25th, 2009 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowYashi (Post 4581576)
Ehhh I like Dawn and Misty and May equally, all three are great characters. I find nothing wrong with her character. The only character that annoy's me is Pikachu, but only when he gets to OHKO's ground types for no damn reason and none of the other electric type's can't.

I think it's happened beyond Electric-ground too. I think ghost moves have harmed normal types. But the past few years they've been a lot more consistent with that type of stuff. Some of it may be left up to interperation though, since a Pokemon's typing and/or ability aren't necessarily the same in the anime and the games. Example: Electivire and electric attacks. It takes "very little damage" but doesn't absorb them like in the games.

Vernikova April 25th, 2009 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxasabridged (Post 4581802)
Y'know, I never even noticed May had 'big breast' and even if she did, who cares? It's an anime, she's not real.

I don't see it. Roxas, nothing after this spoiler is directed specifically at you.

Nor do I see why they should be judged on by the way they dress.

Nor by the fan service the writers give us.

That said, characters should only be judged by their actions and their personalities. Since Hikari is still a character on the show, we don't know how she'll turn out in the end. Will she be a nervous wreck? An over-confident coördinator? Until then, I can't say that I hate her because I don't know how she'll turn out at the end. Many people outside of the demographic hated Haruka at her debut but many of those same people turned into fans of her.

Basically, I think that saying you hate a character before they finish their run is premature even though many people, myself included, do it anyway.

ShinjisLover April 25th, 2009 10:07 PM

Well, I don't know about everyone else, but this is why I hate Hikari/Dawn/whatever:

  • Her skirt is too short; she's 10 for God's sakes!
  • She's like a generic Haruka/May except with no character development.
  • She cares too much about appearances.
  • She sucks in general.
  • She's really, really annoying.
  • She always complains when her hair gets messed up.
  • One word: Piplup.
  • Another word: Pachirisu. Not because she had one, but because she released it and then tried to get it back, only to proceed to get mad at Team Rocket because they wanted it. It was wild. WILD!! Fair game.
  • IkariShipping. He's mine, sister! *z-snap*
  • PearlShipping. She's only paired with him because they're the main characters. PenguinShipping and AbilityShipping are definitely better.
  • She's always gotta be the damsel in distress (See: Rise of Darkrai).


I could go on, but then I'd be ranting. Hope this clears some stuff up for at least me. But not everyone hates her, so. .

Taemin April 25th, 2009 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roxasabridged (Post 4581802)
Y'know, I never even noticed May had 'big breast' and even if she did, who cares? It's an anime, she's not real.

Honestly, I never noticed either.. I mean, all three of main females have the same breast sizes, because it seems to be the default for most of the shows female characters. To me all three of them seemed fairly flat-chested. o_O Especially when compared to how young girls have been drawn other anime series. If May's seemed bigger, it might just be her outfit, or different angles.. but I never noticed.

Still, Dawn's breasts (or lack their of..) should be no reason to dislike her character. o_o That would be my opinion, anyway.

& You know you're lacking sleep when can argue about the breast size of Pokemon characters, so I'm gonna get going for the night. :/

randomspot555 April 25th, 2009 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowYashi (Post 4581576)
Aww I thought Ritchie was adorable =3

It's not that people hate the character. It's just his character started the (IMO) annoying trend of "Hi. I'm goint to befriend you right before the League, but I'll end up beating you later. Oh, and I battle just like you but I'm responsible unlike you *wink*"

Basically, he's Ash, except more responsible (Pokeball seals).

Quote:

I just wish Meowth could beat Pikachu in a battle just once...
Meowth pretty much considers himself above battling except when the story calls for it. Considering he refuses to learn Pay Day, I don't think he'll be beating much besides Brox' Onix with Fury Swipes.

Quote:

but I think he's probably the best Rival for Ash,
EXACTLY! Someone who gets it.

You don't need to like Paul to enjoy his character. He's great because he's actually different from Ash, acts as a great foil. All of Ash's other rivals basically were very similar to Ash in training methods, bonded with Pokemon, etc...

Really, Gary's overconfidence was his downfall. He probably knew it too. I also question how sincere his overconfidence was, considering Ash and him are childhood friends.

Regigigas April 26th, 2009 7:16 AM

She has 2 normal Pokemon. Though, one of them leaves in one episode, so it's OK now. The hatred is, because she is so whiny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azumi (Post 4576538)
Spoiler:

1) She sees a legendary Pokemon at the beginning of her journey.
2) Piplup hates Dawn at first, but they become fast friends after the Ariados event, much like how Ash protected Pikachu from the Spearows.
3) Mamoswine acted like Charizard at a point of the plot.
4) Piplup refused to evolve, much like how Bulbasaur did.
5) She is the second main character who obtained an electric Pokemon, after Ash. (And I'm not counting the rivals here.)

There's also Ambipom leaving just like Primeape did.

randomspot555 April 26th, 2009 7:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regigigas (Post 4584112)
The hatred is, because she is so whiny.

This was a specific character arc that was themed around her sulkng around. She's learned to deal with loss after her battle with Maylene.

Of course, why count it against her when she acts like a normal 10 year old.


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