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The New Games - What does this mean to the Metagame?
I might be wrong putting it here, but I doubt it should go in S&M. Basically, this thread is to discuss what effect the new games will have on the Competitive Metagame. Here's some things we could discuss.
Catchable Celebi In-Game: This would be great. Finally we can start SR'ing for better Celebi, who let's face it, isn't exactly easy to obtain, let alone obtain a competitive one. Catchable Ho-oh, Lugia In-Game: Once again, similar to Celebi. Although you could catch both in Fire Red and Leaf Green, this just gives another chance to those who couldn't obtain the event items, not to mention possible new movesets. Catchable Dogs In-Game: Now THIS has got to be something to hope for. In Fire Red and Leaf Green, there was a 'glitch', where each Dog had a minimum of 4 IV's equal to 0. This meant competitive Dogs weren't obtainable in this way. Maybe we can finally see a decent HP Ice Raikou :O Move Accuracy / Effects: Will Accuracy of some moves change? Will effects be added for that little twist? With the release of Platinum we saw a decrease in the accuracy of Hypnosis, perhaps the producers believed it was too powerful? What other moves can we expect a similar fate to be placed upon? New Items: We've also seen new items introduced with every new game to date. Can we expect more choice items? Berries? Will there be 'Orbs' similar to the Lustrous and Platinum Orbs of Palkia and Giratina? New Forms of Pokemon: We saw with the release of Platinum, Rotom gained some new forms to tangle with. Could this be the case again? Would any of these forms actually be competitive? Which pokemon do you believe should gain new forms? New Pokemon: Now this is REALLY unlikely. I'm posting this here just because there's a possibility, but don't expect it. - - - If I've missed something that should be covered, tell me and I'll add it. As I said, I wasn't sure to post it here or not, considering not many people who post in these sub forums are familiar with the competitive metagame. Either way, it's here :P ~T_S |
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Also...I wonder if there be any new egg moves for some pokemon. |
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Nah, you read it fine. The other guy is backing him up.. Anyway, I'd just like to say two words: COMPATIBILITY ISSUES. There will be no new items, period. No new TMs, no new orbs, no new movesets (maybe a pokemon will gain an attack or two..), nothing big. HG/SS = 4th Gen Johto Remake, therefore, it must be compatible with Platinum, let alone Diamond and Pearl. Platinum - Diamond = No Rotom Formes, No GiratinO, No Skymin. I think Game Freak doesn't want a rewind of that.. Todoroki is basically summed up what I was going to point out (except for a few disagreements), but other than that, practically everything you mentioned is a No. You didn't even make any connections to the metagame.. All you stated was that the legendaries will be caught and Raikou will have better stats. You didn't really say how this affects Online Play. |
Most that I'd imagine is that some Pokemon might get access to a few moves they couldn't otherwise get, but no new moves entirely, and nothing too major either, methinks. One example of this would be Extremespeed Dragonite (if it doesn't already get it, that is) - in Crystal, one could get a Dratini from Dragon's Den if they answered all of the questions right the first time to get the badge (you could go for the silly answers and you'd still win the badge, but you'd just get a normal Dratini -_-). If that returned, then it might have some impact on the Metagame...
I doub't we'd see anything in the way of new items (as I think they'd have to be data for it in the D/P/Pt games and all? Although the Grevious Orb in Platinum might say otherwise =/) - if there were new items though, one could be the Beserk Gene (upped attack, but confused you - found outside the cave Mewtwo was in, which got caved in GSC). Don't see legendaries getting new moves - Lugia and Ho-oh already have their signature moves, and one each is enough. (Many legendaries don't have any). I forsee the Johto Beats having decnet IVs though - beforehand (and atm... until the remake is released) the only ones with good ones came from Colosseum. New formes I find unlikely - maybe new sprite changes if the NEP Pichu is anything to go by AND has impact in the game, but that's not a new forme. New Pokemon obtainable is even less unlikely - that probably would have required in-game data already, and even if not, they tend to keep new Pokemon until a new gen. Makes for better marketing and sales, to release 100+ new Pokemon every 5 years, rather than a few new Pokemon every game. It's how it has been done so far, for instance. |
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Of course, I also hope to see Move Tutors to cover the 3rd Generation moves that were not covered in Platinum, I.E. Seismic Toss. Quote:
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I do expect Apricorns to make a triumphant return, however, in one form or another. Quote:
...On the other hand, the same could probably be said of the new forms that were revealed in Platinum, so this is up for speculation. Quote:
What about expanding the New Moves section to include Move Tutors? Your post is strangely lacking of any mention of them. |
Sorry, just had to pounce at this.. Quote:
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Salamence and dragonite shouldn't be compare against one another. They have their own special sets that takes advantage of their stats and movesets. Btw Dragonite is a good OU pokemon, it'd take UU apart. So UU? lmao
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To the above post: Salamence and Dragonite will always be compared. They are both Dragon and Flying, both same resistances, both same advantages. Either way you look at it, Salamence will be compared to Dragonite. About that statement of each Dragon having their own sets.. That's wrong. Dragonite has almost identical sets to Salamence. Whatever 'Nite can do, 'Mence can do it 10x better with more competitive stats. Quote:
I'm sorry, what exactly is your point? Okay, so Dragonite is in OU. Does that really change anything? The fact that comparisons to Salamence are basically the shadows that follow Dragonite still stands, whether Dragonite is Uber, OU, BL, UU, or NU, Salamence will still lurk. Either way if you somehow find some fluke to explain why Dragonite is better than 'mence, Salamence will still be better, Dragonite will still be inferior, and the Meta Game will remain unchanged. |
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Stop there! Dragonite is not an inferior to Salamence. Salamence can pull off some sets better than dragonite and their are some sets that dragonite can pull off better than mence. If this was the case you are saying, why'd anyone bother using dragonite when salamence can do anything dragonite can? |
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--- Well there's what I think about it all xD *phew* |
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Well in terms of strategic online play, Dragonite and Salamence are meant for taking apart teams and doing sweeps, or at least creating huge dents in the opponent's game. The only viable reasons I can see to explain why some people may choose nite over mence are because: • They prefer 'nite over mence for aesthetic reasons • They already have an EVd 'nite ready and set • They don't like 'mence • Supporting the team. Supporting the team is the only competitive reasons I can see, since it can pull off some nice moves like Heal Bell, T.Wave, Toxic, Roost, etc, but once again I must say, nite and mence are often used for tearing apart teams. nite can be a good supporter if used properly, but it's 4x Ice Weakness often lets it down, and thus leads to other special walls like a Blissey. Ice is a very common type, so I really see no point of choosing a supporting nite over an attacking one since there are plenty of better supports out there, and if you're choosing an attacking one, it's bound to be compared (and outclassed) by mence. Also, visit Serebii or Smogon while you're at it. Everywhere you look, you'll see the two being compared. Serebii even admits that Dragonite is basically inferior to mence. [ONTOPIC] The metagame won't change. A few pokemon will gain some moves via tutor, but I seriously doubt it will be enough to bump up pokemon a tier higher (rhyme unintended) |
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There is no set standard for strategic online play. People will try to pull off tactics that will put them ahead. Let see, Dragonite is more bulkier on the special side, hence has access to light screen making some counters icebeams seem useless. I recall seeing a set on smogon that works well, bulky nite, DD, lightscreen, roost. Something Salamence can't do. Yes Salamence is more threatening on the offence and able to do almost nite can do, You can not say Dragonite is outclassd by mence, mence does indead control the CB and DD set, Dragonite does match mence on the mix set and has a shot taking out blissey in one go ' superpower' and also support wise nite is awesome. DDspecial bulky nite is special for nite, making sure it's able to get at least couple DD's for a sweep and mence can not do this. They are two different pokemon when they come to play these days. People will know mence is better at offence, while nite however could be used bulkier/for support to seperate from mence. So it nite isn't completely outclassd by mence. I hope we sorted it out. They are both good are doing different things, neither one of them will play each others sets that well coz they'll both outclass each other in that area. |
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It will change nothing the pokemon and moves are the same unless they change level up learned moves and maybe if they add a move tutor but the weakness and resistances will stay the same. I highly doubt this will effect competitive gaming to any extent maybe you will see a few more Feraligatrs, Meganiums and Typhlosions being used in an attempt to prove they can make these pokemon of any real use which in the end they will never move out of their respective "Tiers" no matter how much I want Torterra and Feraligatr to be of real competitive use they will not be
Also I am tired of the word "metagame" not too long ago someone explained to me the meaning of the word to the average player is that "its the game nintendo made but doesn't want you to play" or in other words making most of these "metagamers" think that they are in some sort of secret club when most of these players are using ARs to max out EVs which I consider to be cheating but that is just my personal opinion on using anything involving an AR besides backing up your save file in case the data is lost though I do not have one I wish I did for the reason of backing up |
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Actually having the legendaries catchable can affect the metagame, as we can assume IVs will be higher than usual [of course not passing the max. of 31 xD] Having IVs higher means newer HP moves, stronger and faster or more defensive Pokémon...and so on.
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New Items aren't entirely out of the question. They added that Girtiana, however you spell it orb. And you can't trade that.
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I really only see new/reintro'd items, moveset changes, and possibly new forms. For items, I'm supporting Fame Checker, Slowpoke Tails, and the return of the RageCandyBar! I think maybe maybe maybe Celebi could get a more Sp.Att-centric form, but other than that, what is really there?
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I really doubt there will be any change in the metagame, as there really wasn't with FR or LG (If you guys can remember that far back. xD).
And I suppose the ability to catch said Pokemon easier will only matter in the trade section, as Pokemon availability doesn't really have an impact or our metagame much at all. |
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I don't think the compatibility thing is much of an issue...let's not forget that they added plenty of new moves (along with new Pokémon) in the original GS, and then just restricted trade with the original RBY. They could easily add new moves, Pokémon, or items and just restrict them from being traded to DPPt.
Of the three, I think new items are most likely, and I really don't think they'll add any new Pokémon. As I recall, however, didn't they add the three starter-exclusive moves to FRLG (Hydro Cannon, Blast Burn, Frenzy Plant)? I don't think those were in R/S, so I do think there's a possibility that they might add a few new moves. If they do add new moves, though, I doubt it will be very many. |
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