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-   -   4th Gen Team Rocket speculation (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=178550)

Redstar May 19th, 2009 10:56 AM

Team Rocket is the BEST team. Team Aqua/Magma and Galactic are just stupid. They're practically good guys, dressed up and doing absurd things.

TR is the best because they're actually bad... They don't even care about Pokemon; they just us them as a means to get money. That's awesome.

And I would hate to see them in Kanto. They don't belong there, period.

Artemis May 19th, 2009 12:24 PM

Er, I have to ask but how does Team Rocket not belong in the Kanto when they are originally from the Kanto? It makes no sense...

Poliwagged May 19th, 2009 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redstar (Post 4655392)
Team Rocket is the BEST team. Team Aqua/Magma and Galactic are just stupid. They're practically good guys, dressed up and doing absurd things.

TR is the best because they're actually bad... They don't even care about Pokemon; they just us them as a means to get money. That's awesome.

And I would hate to see them in Kanto. They don't belong there, period.

Mind = blown. How is this logical?

Charaxes May 19th, 2009 2:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning (Post 4655307)
I'd love to see more variety in Pokemon since I hate that in all the enemy teams but honestly, I don't expect it at all.

Well, at least, G/S attempt to broaden, and we do have the media versions for a variety of Pokemon (Special, the Stadiums). But, I do agree, as Rocket Pokemon need to be augmented for in-game.

As for the manga names of the Execs, as sir alluded, true, but those aren't official English canon names, so. I'm still going by the Japanese versions, so I'll take what I can get, either way.

Well, I won't say Neo Team Rocket didn't have a plot, no. It was more "business as usual," which then abruptly shifted to "it's time to revive fully and call back Giovanni." It's less self-contained than the Kanto version, I admit.

Both arcs have their strengths and weaknesses, really.

Artemis May 19th, 2009 3:02 PM

Moving on, I would be pleased to see that Team Rocket becomes more of a difficulty in the game than a pain; They deserve it really, seeing as they are the first criminals made and the first to expand to two regions as well.

Redstar May 19th, 2009 3:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f l a s h (Post 4655611)
Er, I have to ask but how does Team Rocket not belong in the Kanto when they are originally from the Kanto? It makes no sense...

As I've said before, it was firmly established at the end of the first generation that Giovanni had redeemed himself and disbanded Team Rocket.

The whole reason that Team Rocket is in Johto rather than Kanto is because they CANT be there. It would just be too difficult. Do you really think that the Nazi's would attempt a come-back in Germany? No, they just wouldn't. There's just so much laws and an overall zeitgeist in place that it couldn't even get started. But we see Neo-Nazism here in America, and have had movements since the '60s, not too long after WWII. It's just a different world over here. We haven't experienced it yet, so we have no reason to put laws up against it.

It's the same thing with Kanto and Johto. Kanto is on guard and has police force, laws, and a general feeling that prevents TR from making any return. However, Johto has not gone through this so they are easier to make a move on. They just feel more comfortable, and thus are easy picking.

The entire story of Gold/Silver is that TR is trying to make a return and get their old leader back, and they have no real focus. They're just doing anything for money or to showboat in a mad attempt to look like they have power. They certainly would not make a move for Kanto until they were firmly established in Johto, and even without Gold's interference I doubt this would have happened for another year, at least.

And that's why it's illogical for TR to be in Kanto.

Artemis May 19th, 2009 3:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redstar (Post 4656032)
As I've said before, it was firmly established at the end of the first generation that Giovanni had redeemed himself and disbanded Team Rocket.

The whole reason that Team Rocket is in Johto rather than Kanto is because they CANT be there. It would just be too difficult. Do you really think that the Nazi's would attempt a come-back in Germany? No, they just wouldn't. There's just so much laws and an overall zeitgeist in place that it couldn't even get started. But we see Neo-Nazism here in America, and have had movements since the '60s, not too long after WWII. It's just a different world over here. We haven't experienced it yet, so we have no reason to put laws up against it.

It's the same thing with Kanto and Johto. Kanto is on guard and has police force, laws, and a general feeling that prevents TR from making any return. However, Johto has not gone through this so they are easier to make a move on. They just feel more comfortable, and thus are easy picking.

The entire story of Gold/Silver is that TR is trying to make a return and get their old leader back, and they have no real focus. They're just doing anything for money or to showboat in a mad attempt to look like they have power. They certainly would not make a move for Kanto until they were firmly established in Johto, and even without Gold's interference I doubt this would have happened for another year, at least.

And that's why it's illogical for TR to be in Kanto.

That is why this should have definitely been explained before, but it is never too late. You actually make a really good point with where you are going with this. I never really thought about Team Rocket that way either, in such realistic terms anyway.

Retro Bug May 19th, 2009 3:33 PM

I never thought of it like that, that actually makes a lot of sense at least to me it does.

Poliwagged May 19th, 2009 3:46 PM

working underground is a pretty thing.
The Rocket member managed to sabotage the magnet train without getting caught by all them officers.



ninjas all of them.

Sweet Candace May 19th, 2009 4:00 PM

I think Team Rocket will follow the G/S/C storyline, but I hope they have a more deeper storyline in the game, though.

Artemis May 19th, 2009 6:24 PM

If they bring in the Sevii Islands, then they can possibly try to continue there in a way, like how it was in FRLG.

Oblivion Reaper 2.0 May 19th, 2009 6:26 PM

Screw Team Rocket
Bring in Neo Team Rocket with The Mask Of Ice

Zeta Sukuna May 19th, 2009 7:16 PM

It would be difficult, but not impossible to reform Team Rocket in Kanto. They just need to hide out until they can get enough people to overpower the police, or do such a big strike against Kanto to leave their forces crippled. It would be difficult, but it wouldn't be impossible. It has been shown that the defences were upped in the original G/S in case of Team Rocket's return, but it isn't impossible to reform there. Besides, there could have been many people secretly working for Team Rocket in high positions that weren't caught... yes, probably not true, but it is possible. Also, one of the underground tunnels was closed, and Cinnabar is almost deserted, there could be networks in those two places that no one knows about, and if they decide to add it in, than the Sevii Islands. They didn't do anything major there, just looked through two places for two stones, nothing drastic enough to really get worried, unless they get paranoid of course.

Team Rocket showed potential to return in G/S. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, but there was a member in Kanto who took a part of a machine from the Power Plant, which, since it is possibly the biggest power plant in Kanto (If there are more, but realistically speaking, there should be more.) It should have some sort of security, because if it were attacked, than the consequences would be devastating. It supplied power to the Magnet Train, and possibly supplied thousands of buildings, including major buildings with power, but that was unable to be touched on, as that would cause the region to be shut down.

But I doubt they would go through the hard work involved to return to Kanto... maybe Sevii Islands, but not Kanto. Redstar's argument makes a lot of sense, more than mine in my own opinion.

Artemis May 19th, 2009 7:23 PM

I think I'll go with the idea of RedStar it makes the point crystal clear. Though the Sevii Island plot could be a possibility like mentioned before. It'll also give Team Rocket the chance to have new Gen Pokémon in their party as well.

pokerus34 May 19th, 2009 7:26 PM

I guess they would only change the original storyline a bit, but add new stories i hope... Giovanni will definitely be there...

And i wish they have stronger Pokemon and better uniforms... XD

Blasting Off Again!

Redstar May 19th, 2009 9:09 PM

I was just saying what I think would take place in a real-world situation, though Zeta's idea makes sense too. I really hope they don't change too much of the story in Kanto, and having Team Rocket there would do that. But I really wouldn't mind if they were, but working more subtly, with underground networks and key players, like Zeta. If they wanted to expand the plot of the game, but not completely destroy the original story, they'd do that.

I would love to see Giovanni make a return, but that would go against his character in the first game. Yeah, beating him a few times and him saying "Okay. I'll be good now." really was deus ex machina, but changing that wouldn't be much better. I'm hoping for just a minor cameo, like a hermit trying to find himself as I suggested. An interesting twist would be having to recruit him to finally put down TR in Kanto, but we'll see what really happens.

TheAliveTrain May 20th, 2009 5:24 AM

Also, following Redstar's theory and then Zeta's, my opinion is that Giovanni just won't be there.
First of all, it wouldn't make so much sense because he really left Team Rocket to get a new life and period, and we've seen it on FR/LG. Team Rocket's appearance on Johto may be considered as the "Neo Team Rocket" (as Twilight Requiem said) born, and so there would be a new leader, and this leader being Will and Karen (from the E4). They are from Johto so they could simply play the role of leaders, aswell the old Elite members would be back (Nothing is known about Agatha's and Lorelei's/Prima's left).

I know it also may not make sense, but, if Team Rocket would have a better role in the game (I hope so, because he did not have a BIG role as Magma/Aqua/Galactic in the games), and the storyline being continued on Kanto, there should be a leader. The Mask of Ice would be irreal, it is a kind of "Ghost which is taking control of children(later adults) and, my opinion, it would not fit".

Also, suposing that Giovanni has a son, and he does have a mother (Madame Boss), there are so many key characters to play the role of TeamRocket Leader(s).

And it doesn't mean that Giovanni wouldn't have a role on the game, it could, the same way Cinnabar Island can. After his left from TeamRocket, and the control taken on Goldenrod's Radio Tower, he may help you in the storyline. This is just an example.

Anyway, this is just an opinion, a bit messed because I'm linking the games to the manga, and they have nothing to do with each other in the role. But as I said before, Team Rocket without a leader can't have a good role, they may, but it doesn't seem good, for me.

Artemis May 20th, 2009 5:29 AM

There are just so many options that people can use with Team Rocket that it is uncountable, but it is what GameFrak decides on doing with it all that we'll have to wait and see for. I mean, even if Team Rocket doesn't show up in Kanto, I would still like some kind of plot to happen, either it be somewhat involved with Team Rocket's previous events or someone trying to start something new.

Charaxes May 21st, 2009 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeta Dimentio (Post 4656680)
It would be difficult, but not impossible to reform Team Rocket in Kanto. They just need to hide out until they can get enough people to overpower the police, or do such a big strike against Kanto to leave their forces crippled. It would be difficult, but it wouldn't be impossible. It has been shown that the defences were upped in the original G/S in case of Team Rocket's return, but it isn't impossible to reform there. Besides, there could have been many people secretly working for Team Rocket in high positions that weren't caught... yes, probably not true, but it is possible. Also, one of the underground tunnels was closed, and Cinnabar is almost deserted, there could be networks in those two places that no one knows about, and if they decide to add it in, than the Sevii Islands. They didn't do anything major there, just looked through two places for two stones, nothing drastic enough to really get worried, unless they get paranoid of course.

Team Rocket showed potential to return in G/S. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, but there was a member in Kanto who took a part of a machine from the Power Plant, which, since it is possibly the biggest power plant in Kanto (If there are more, but realistically speaking, there should be more.) It should have some sort of security, because if it were attacked, than the consequences would be devastating. It supplied power to the Magnet Train, and possibly supplied thousands of buildings, including major buildings with power, but that was unable to be touched on, as that would cause the region to be shut down.

But I doubt they would go through the hard work involved to return to Kanto... maybe Sevii Islands, but not Kanto. Redstar's argument makes a lot of sense, more than mine in my own opinion.

That's true, as G/S proved on how the organization can get mobilized quickly, judging on the effective ness of their storming the Radio Tower. They certainly planned it ahead of time, as well, whenever you first arrive in Goldenrod and deal with the Rocket, there.

Conversely, we don't know much of the police structure in the games (which is a strength of the anime, as we know more on the police), and they don't present much challenge (that's why we have the player, who does the police's dirty work).

Remember, it's all about money to the Rockets. So, it's either a hostage situation for, say, the Bullet Train or selling the land for construction and having a major payoff, there (like in real life).

I could buy the subversion, as Pokemon Special made a great point in addressing it with Surge, Koga and Sabrina (Blaine, technically, but he was more on the scientist side and the first to defect).

Unlike Aqua, Magma and Galactic, the Rockets aren't trapped in any twisted altrustic approach and/or want to advance the world in some fanatical world view. After all, Galactic co-opted Team Rocket's domination theme, yet they had a crazy leader who wanted to be God. So, that's Team Rocket's great advantage with their leaders -- sanity, or close to it. Complete with the bottom line, which does matter, as those fancy uniforms aren't cheap.

XxDawnfanxX May 22nd, 2009 2:39 AM

Does anyone else just love doing the Team Rocket missions to foil TR? I really like Team Rocket and I think the Radio Station takeover was really cool, as well as battling them in the underground. I think they should have Team Rocket more involved though. Having more attempts at their evil schemes then having to go over and battle them would be great, maybe having them a little tougher.

I remember in B/R/S having to go underground in Celadon at the gaming place, that was a lot of fun.

Artemis May 22nd, 2009 5:10 AM

Yes, with Team Rocket there was a lot more fun. Actually, come to think of it, Team Rocket has given me more of a challenge and thrill over the rest of Teams such as Galactic, Magma, and Aqua.

Ash&pikachuarethebest May 22nd, 2009 8:10 AM

Yeah Team Rocket are the best organisation going because their only goal was to make money so it is quite easy to have them do more in the remakes because with everything you had to do in the original games they were darting about all over the place so you can have them just constantly making havoc instead of having a fixed storyline with them all the time.

Artemis May 22nd, 2009 8:31 AM

If Team Rocket thickens there plot a bit in the story,, not by much to change it from the old game's originality but to extend it out, then I think I wouldn't mind too much. They're get rich quick schemes always kept me interested.

Ash&pikachuarethebest May 22nd, 2009 1:03 PM

Yeah I agree with you there they were always amussing weren't they lol.

Artemis May 22nd, 2009 1:06 PM

They have the best plots, the best outfits, and they were completely more original than the newer themes. So, if Team Rocket is left alone, besides for maybe new rosters on their team and higher levels, then I wouldn't be moved in anyway, but satisfied.


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