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-   -   4th Gen HG/SS - Updated Gym Leaders/Elite 4/Red? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=178923)

iTzKaizer June 2nd, 2009 2:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TERRA#493 (Post 4708418)
they sould make the Gym Leaders and the Elite 4 + Champ MUCH stronger, like in Platinum. the gameplay would be much challenging the player and that means more fun. but if gamefreak will it make is not sure, because of the nostalgic factor.. but i bet for it, that they will make the trainers harder

The nostalgic factor can be kept, but has it's limits. You can't do an exact new game, with improved graphics, but same plot, and even glitches.

A good form of keeping the nostalgic factor and improvements is increasing levels, but keeping the same pokemons, maybe change one, but the powerhouse of a gym leader(strongest pokemon) should bnever be replaced unless it evolves (national pokedex).

TERRA#493 June 2nd, 2009 2:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTzKaizer (Post 4708431)
The nostalgic factor can be kept, but has it's limits. You can't do an exact new game, with improved graphics, but same plot, and even glitches.

A good form of keeping the nostalgic factor and improvements is increasing levels, but keeping the same pokemons, maybe change one, but the powerhouse of a gym leader(strongest pokemon) should bnever be replaced unless it evolves (national pokedex).

yeah that would be the cleverest solution =)

Ayano Hana June 2nd, 2009 2:40 PM

I'm guessing they will try to maintain the nostalgic level by making some Gyms under-leveled, and then increase some Gym's levels for difficulty purposes.

Sweet Smoochum June 5th, 2009 3:02 PM

I think they should give Whitney a Teddiursa and an Eevee to go with her Miltank. Falkner should be given a level 12 Noctowl and a level 9 Hoothoot. (Instead of a hacked Pidgeotto, he can have a hacked level 12 Noctowl.) Bugsy should have Scyther still, but also be given a Butterfree and a Beedrill (instead of Metapod and Kakuna). Morty definitely needs a Misdreavous instead of a second Haunter. Chuck needs one of the Hitmons, preferably Hitmontop (like someone else has mentioned). Jasmine was hard enough with her Steelix, however, they could add Skarmory to her roster like someone else has mentioned, though I would prefer Amphy. Pryce can have a Jynx or a Delibird instead of Seel. As for Clair, she could have 2 Dragonair, Kingdra, and a Gyarados.

(I'll think up ideas for the Elite Four later...)

I don't want it to be exactly the same, because I want somewhat of a challenge.

blueblur155 June 5th, 2009 3:09 PM

i dont know....
in some ways i want to see a lvl increase when u fight the elite 4 the first time and continue to let the lvls increase as u fight thru kanto. (hell, maybe kanto will actually have its OWN elite 4 this time around. Ok, who am i kidding? we all know that THAT cant happen!)

Pokedra June 5th, 2009 3:18 PM

I hope they'll level it up, at least if you get 16 badges. The E4 was too easy and so were the Kanto gym leaders.

Primal_Dialga June 5th, 2009 3:50 PM

They will keep em low for Kanto purposes they might alter the pokemon hopefully evolve some pokemon :)

Artemis June 5th, 2009 3:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primal_Dialga (Post 4718202)
They will keep em low for Kanto purposes they might alter the pokemon hopefully evolve some pokemon :)

This can go both ways. They can raise the levels and have Pokémon rach close to the 80s and 90s. Or, they can keep them at low levels like in the original and end up raising them higher afterwards if a rematch comes to play. For me, I prefer them to raise the levels and give the game more of a challenge. I mean, if they raise the levels after, it'll be great, but there won't be a storyline with them anymore and you'll already have the badge. I'd rather they raise the levels earlier on to keep the game interesting. I wouldn't care if I lose a few times because they're too strong as that is all part of the fun to me. Also, if the levels get high, then so be it, because it'll be about time they reach close to the maximum level, besides it being through a Battle Tower or Facility. Things can go pretty much anyway how they choose it to be, but I'm hoping it'll have higher levels and more of a challenge when battling the Gyms and Elites. As for Red, he can have the lv. 100 Pikachu, I won't mind at all. He'll defintiely proclaim his title for having the strongest Pokémon in-game and will more than likely not lose it after that.

iTzKaizer June 5th, 2009 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GymLeaderLily (Post 4718066)
I think they should give Whitney a Teddiursa and an Eevee to go with her Miltank. Falkner should be given a level 12 Noctowl and a level 9 Hoothoot. (Instead of a hacked Pidgeotto, he can have a hacked level 12 Noctowl.) Bugsy should have Scyther still, but also be given a Butterfree and a Beedrill (instead of Metapod and Kakuna). Morty definitely needs a Misdreavous instead of a second Haunter. Chuck needs one of the Hitmons, preferably Hitmontop (like someone else has mentioned). Jasmine was hard enough with her Steelix, however, they could add Skarmory to her roster like someone else has mentioned, though I would prefer Amphy. Pryce can have a Jynx or a Delibird instead of Seel. As for Clair, she could have 2 Dragonair, Kingdra, and a Gyarados.

(I'll think up ideas for the Elite Four later...)

I don't want it to be exactly the same, because I want somewhat of a challenge.

Almost all what you've said is what I thought and put in my word document, a few days ago -.-

Tediourse and eevee are both too weak to be on a 3rd gym leader. You want to remember Sinnoh's 3rd gym? Let's see:
In D/P: Lucario, Machoke, Meditite.
In Platinum: Mismagius, Haunter, Duskull.

Compare that to: Eevee, Miltank, Tediousa.

They're baby pokemon and are lguably weak and unevolved pokemon to be on a gym, specially the 3rd. Not in the 1st gym either.

Sweet Smoochum June 5th, 2009 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iTzKaizer (Post 4718224)
Almost all what you've said is what I thought and put in my word document, a few days ago -.-

Tediourse and eevee are both too weak to be on a 3rd gym leader. You want to remember Sinnoh's 3rd gym? Let's see:
In D/P: Lucario, Machoke, Meditite.
In Platinum: Mismagius, Haunter, Duskull.

Compare that to: Eevee, Miltank, Tediousa.

They're baby pokemon and are lguably weak and unevolved pokemon to be on a gym, specially the 3rd. Not in the 1st gym either.

I'm sorry. I don't think I remember reading your post. I'll read it now. Anyway, you should be happy that someone agrees with your ideas. :) & Yes I remember Platinum very well thank you very much. (I have better long term memory than short term.)

The reason why I chose Teddiursa, is because Whitney likes cute Pokemon and because it's a normal type. I did it for the cuteness factor, and it's a way for us to see it early in case there is wifi, we can obtain it before Blackthorn City. As for those pokemon being babyish, if anything, Teddiursa is more of a baby Pokemon, but it's still cute. I don't see Eevee as babyish. Besides, I chose Eevee, because Bill gives you an Eevee after you meet him in Ecruteak. Battling Whitney first would be like a sneak peek. Also, I chose it because some trainers in Platinum have the evolutions. For example, Volkner has a Jolteon. Yes, it's an evolution, but still. The Eevee I have in Silver has actually been very useful. (Especially with Shadow Ball.) If Whitney's Eevee had that attack (Which I doubt, because that's Morty's special move), it would be useful. Also, Normal types can learn many different types of moves, which makes it a little more of a challenge. I chose the Pokemon, because I want to see the Johto Gym Leaders to have Johto Pokemon, and less Kanto. (Eevee's just there b/c I like it. ;))

Aether June 5th, 2009 9:55 PM

They'll keep them low for nostalgia's sake probably. Meh... wasn't Lance's strongest pokemon a 50? D:

Aquilae June 5th, 2009 11:35 PM

Just bar the player from going to Mahogany once he / she reaches Ecruteak. Part of the reason why the levels were kept low is that players could choose to go to either Olivine / Cianwood or Mahogany first, which warrants Pryces' pokemon being low-levelled as players would complain if it were otherwise. Then you can have a more linear progression and the levels wouldn't be hard to do.

I'd like it more if they made the trainers' pokemon level scale with your pokemons' level though.

Pan!ko June 6th, 2009 12:52 AM

I think they should make the levels a tad higher in the johto but make Kanto a challenge with even more higher level pokemon. But wasn't Red's strongest pokemon level 80 or something? Or am i just getting mixed up?

iTzKaizer June 6th, 2009 7:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquilae (Post 4719674)
Just bar the player from going to Mahogany once he / she reaches Ecruteak. Part of the reason why the levels were kept low is that players could choose to go to either Olivine / Cianwood or Mahogany first, which warrants Pryces' pokemon being low-levelled as players would complain if it were otherwise. Then you can have a more linear progression and the levels wouldn't be hard to do.

I'd like it more if they made the trainers' pokemon level scale with your pokemons' level though.

Yeah, that was the problem. In this remake they should make something so that you can't go to the 7th gym before. That way they'll increase even more the 7th gym levels, and evolved pokemons.

Sweet Smoochum June 6th, 2009 7:31 AM

Actually, there is a guy blocking the Mahogany gym, so you can't battle Pryce yet. To get access to the gym, you have to go to the Lake of Rage and meet Lance and all that. But I see what you mean. Though, I wouldn't want Mahogany and the Lake of Rage blocked off completely, because what if you wanted to use Red Gyarados to battle Jasmine? They could keep the gym blocked by saying "Pryce is out training under a waterfall. He's not here; why don't you try to get the other badges first?" Even though I'm given the option of choosing between Olivine and Mahogany, I always choose Olivine first. XD

Spoiler:
I'm up to that part in Silver.

iTzKaizer June 6th, 2009 7:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GymLeaderLily (Post 4720717)
Actually, there is a guy blocking the Mahogany gym, so you can't battle Pryce yet. To get access to the gym, you have to go to the Lake of Rage and meet Lance and all that. But I see what you mean. Though, I wouldn't want Mahogany and the Lake of Rage blocked off completely, because what if you wanted to use Red Gyarados to battle Jasmine? They could keep the gym blocked by saying "Pryce is out training under a waterfall. He's not here; why don't you try to get the other badges first?" Even though I'm given the option of choosing between Olivine and Mahogany, I always choose Olivine first. XD

Spoiler:
I'm up to that part in Silver.

Yeah, but that problem can be solved by increasing the Red Gyarados levels, then when you catch it is as if you've trained him before. I think that after Olvine and the 6th gym leader defeated, the Team Rocket would be more powefull.

The problem with G/S/C were those optional parts of the storyline. To make the two options at the same level, they made them at the same level, and the problem was when you had to go the other way, and your pokemon were way too overpowered. By doing a constant storyline, the levels wouldm increase and levels up to your progress.

Artemis June 6th, 2009 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aether (Post 4719460)
They'll keep them low for nostalgia's sake probably. Meh... wasn't Lance's strongest pokemon a 50? D:

Sadly, yes, Lance's Dragonite was level 50, which reminds me of the event for the TRU Dragonite that was held last year. Though, even if they raise the levels of the Pokémon for Gyms, Elites, etc. the game can still keep its nostalgic feel. I mean, it is more replaying the storyline of the game and remembering all the old days you shared once before that counts more to the nostalgic feel. Levels shouldn't really be considered too much a big part of it, only for a minor few, I would think.

I personally, would like to see it risen, for more of a challenge and maybe for a little extra afterwards. Also, I'd think everyone would enjoy it if they can reshare a battle with Red, but this time he's even tougher than before. It'll seem more realistic too as if he's trained more through the years since Gold and Silver, but that's just me.

derozio June 19th, 2009 2:01 AM

Its about time that nintendo made the games more challenging.The jhoto gymleaders were totally lacking in the level department.They should increase the levels to match to those of the gym leaders in platinum.The elites should have levels matching to those in platinum.Kanto should be a region which has trainers of very advanced levels.The trainers in kanto should have very high leveled pokemons.The gym leaders there should have levels in 70-75 range.I think that Red's pokemon's levels should be between 90-95 and his pikachu should be at lv 100. Now that would be CHALLENGING! (I think that some people may disapprove of my opinion but I think that this would be really challenging and its just my opinion :D)

HeartGoldnSoulSilver June 19th, 2009 2:06 AM

Ya Nintendo's really gonna have to kick it up a notch if they want to make this game fun for all generation of "trainers" (Kanto,Johto, etc.).

jakeandhissuperdogsam!! June 19th, 2009 5:04 AM

Actually...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAliveTrain (Post 4669869)
Nintendo wouldn't change their signature Pokémon, as Xatu for Will

In Platinum, the signature Pokemon were changed. Volkner's changed to Electivire, Flint's to Magmortar, Candice's to Froslass (and again to Glaceon after the National Dex).

JP June 19th, 2009 5:13 AM

I would hope they increase the levels. I'm sure they'll at least increase the E4 levels, if not all of the gym leaders. I'm sure Red will also have some sort of boost as well.

Kyledove June 19th, 2009 5:33 AM

Is this topic solely about the levels? Because I for one am hoping that all the character designs get a bit of a revamp like gold did. I remember the Johto gym leaders having some of the most forgettable outfits out of all of them..

Especially someone like Falkner should still keep his japanese influence on his outfit, but would be nice with a tiny bit of an update to bring it into the present...

kellogs June 19th, 2009 5:37 AM

The levels' in Johto were the one thing I disliked about the game,Red should defiantly have at least one of his team in the 90's,I would love it to be his Snorlax,just for a good challenge,I think three(or just about) of my team were lvl 90 at that time.Even so I'll still enjoy the game.

JP June 19th, 2009 6:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyledove (Post 4762393)
Is this topic solely about the levels? Because I for one am hoping that all the character designs get a bit of a revamp like gold did. I remember the Johto gym leaders having some of the most forgettable outfits out of all of them..

Especially someone like Falkner should still keep his japanese influence on his outfit, but would be nice with a tiny bit of an update to bring it into the present...

I'm sure all the characters will have some sort of revamp, but I doubt they'll be anything as critical as the main character revamps.

bobandbill June 19th, 2009 6:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyledove (Post 4762393)
Is this topic solely about the levels? Because I for one am hoping that all the character designs get a bit of a revamp like gold did. I remember the Johto gym leaders having some of the most forgettable outfits out of all of them..

Especially someone like Falkner should still keep his japanese influence on his outfit, but would be nice with a tiny bit of an update to bring it into the present...

For the record... it kinda is on the levels of them solely, rather than the looks of them as well. =/ I'd suggest raising this in the Speculations thread if you want to, though.


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