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-   -   Have you ever noticed... (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=184226)

weedle_mchairybug July 12th, 2009 3:18 PM

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Ash wasn't a rookie during the Hoenn region. He made top 16 in both past league.
I was referring to Ash's Pokemon in regards to that case.

And correction, he made top 8 in the Johto League. The only other time he made "top 16" besides the Kanto League was in the Whirl Cup.

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Fine they were "rookies" but they were train. And he always train before and after his gym battle. I agree that treecko, taillow and the rest was rookies were they were caught, but Ash give them time before he used them in battle. Look at back during the orbough(sp) gym battle. How long was it before the got there? Who evolve? Turtwig was already a strong Pokemon when Ash caught it, but it got some training, Ash taught it to dodge attacks, instead of being a tank. Staravia can't be consider a rookie when he fought Maylene because he is been with Ash for almost 60+ episodes. Gliscor didn't even sniff a Gym Battle until Byron and Candice. Buizel got training for both Ash and Dawn. Chimchar already got intense training from Paul If you think about it, during the Sinnoh, Ash gives time before using a Pokemon. See when Buizel stars/appear in 3 gym battles he was consider overused. Now he is in the sidelines, because Chimchar
Spoiler:
Monefero

are taking on the spotlight. Staravia/Staraptor got his chances. Gliscor is being involve some what.
Maybe... However, that still doesn't mean they should beat the GLs so easily. Take Goku vs. Master Roshi, for example. He was taught a lot of things from him, and trained under him as well, yet even with most of that training, Master Roshi still beat him in the World Tournament.

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Once again, they're only rookies, when Ash caught them, and didn't sniff even one battle. How do "rookies" get ranked? by battling. Grovyle, Swellow and Corpish are beyond rookies. They were Ash major Pokemon during the Hoenn saga. The only rookies I'll be saying is Glalie.
Honestly, you're pretty much biased in regards to Hoenn, since I seem to be the only one who actually saw the true flaws of that region (If Gym Leaders were truly experts in their field, why would they lose to rookie pokemon? And YES, They were rookies, seeing how they had no trainer battle experience prior to capture.)

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I'm a little bit biased because it's the first batch of Pokemons to get development. And yes I do get what your saying, but they aren't rookies forever. When Treecko evolve is he still a rookie? when taillow evolved he still a rookie?
Well, Treecko would still have to get used to it's evolution, and it's evolving, regardless of power potential, is barely anything if fared against someone far more experienced than it (Which Norman's pokemon were). Remember how Sceptile actually had difficulty getting used to it's new evolution form? Same deal with Swellow.

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Grovyle and Swellow are Ash most exp. Hoenn Pokemon that evolve., calling them rookies if not right.
Well, even still, they haven't really had a taste of veteranism until they've competed in at least one League, since that's all that truly matters to trainers. The only reason Gym Leaders exist are as stepping stones.

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the next tier goes to Corpish because he is the next Hoenn that been used a lot of times during the saga, so calling them rookies is not right, because they do gain some exp from the battle they partake, either they won or lost, they still grow from their battle.
If that's the case, can you please explain why JJM are considered to be the most weak and pathetic trainers in the universe in both the fanbase's viewpoint AND the Anime? They suffered a lot of losses, and had been training for far longer than even Brock had mustered.

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Well we were arguing about the Sinnoh gym leader before, but I get the acknowledgement
Thanks.

Oh, and BTW, there were several episodes that implied that Gym Leaders aren't strong (The conversation between Flint and Ash shortly after his loss against Brock implied that Brock was strong enough to face the Pokemon League, but he was lowering his potential to be a Gym Leader because of his younger siblings needing him, plus the fact that many of the GLs who became Elite 4 members and/or champions had to quit and journey around to hone their skills before they can attempt that.). Just FYI.

TheHolyPeep July 12th, 2009 8:42 PM

Yeah, but then again, I've never really considered Ash to be that awesome of a trainer.

Insanely lucky, yes.

Let's face it, though. Pikachu really does all of the work anyway. *sagenod*

WildEagle July 13th, 2009 4:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug (Post 4850370)
I was referring to Ash's Pokemon in regards to that case.

And correction, he made top 8 in the Johto League. The only other time he made "top 16" besides the Kanto League was in the Whirl Cup.

Thanks for the correction


Maybe... However, that still doesn't mean they should beat the GLs so easily. Take Goku vs. Master Roshi, for example. He was taught a lot of things from him, and trained under him as well, yet even with most of that training, Master Roshi still beat him in the World Tournament.


Honestly, you're pretty much biased in regards to Hoenn, since I seem to be the only one who actually saw the true flaws of that region (If Gym Leaders were truly experts in their field, why would they lose to rookie pokemon? And YES, They were rookies, seeing how they had no trainer battle experience prior to capture.)

Well Hoenn, was the region that actually got some Pokemon developments and actually proven themselves to be worthy to be used in the League. (unlike the Johto League, where Ash used most of his Kanto Pokemon) And yes, of course there will be flaws, you can't make a show perfect in one hit, at least the writer learn that they can't manage rotating Pokemon, and just stick to developing 5 Pokemons + Pikachu.

Well, Treecko would still have to get used to it's evolution, and it's evolving, regardless of power potential, is barely anything if fared against someone far more experienced than it (Which Norman's pokemon were). Remember how Sceptile actually had difficulty getting used to it's new evolution form? Same deal with Swellow.

Well to correct, Sceptile wasn't getting used to his evolution, but he was heartbroken and unable to used his moves because of it.

Well, even still, they haven't really had a taste of veteranism until they've competed in at least one League, since that's all that truly matters to trainers. The only reason Gym Leaders exist are as stepping stones.


If that's the case, can you please explain why JJM are considered to be the most weak and pathetic trainers in the universe in both the fanbase's viewpoint AND the Anime? They suffered a lot of losses, and had been training for far longer than even Brock had mustered.

Well you got to give credits for Jesse getting those ribbons, you can't take away that she has to battle to get them. James won a few battle himself as well. Meowth, I have no clue.

Thanks.

Oh, and BTW, there were several episodes that implied that Gym Leaders aren't strong (The conversation between Flint and Ash shortly after his loss against Brock implied that Brock was strong enough to face the Pokemon League, but he was lowering his potential to be a Gym Leader because of his younger siblings needing him, plus the fact that many of the GLs who became Elite 4 members and/or champions had to quit and journey around to hone their skills before they can attempt that.). Just FYI.

ohhh. Thanks for the info :)

Replies are in bold letters.

weedle_mchairybug July 13th, 2009 6:19 AM

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Thanks for the correction
You're welcome.

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Well to correct, Sceptile wasn't getting used to his evolution, but he was heartbroken and unable to used his moves because of it.
Well, ok, maybe Grotle would have been a better example, seeing how it did struggle shortly after evolution due to evolving.

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Well you got to give credits for Jesse getting those ribbons, you can't take away that she has to battle to get them. James won a few battle himself as well. Meowth, I have no clue.
Well, going by what Zoey, and even Scott and Brock said, it's not really the same thing.

And, well, Misty and Brock implied a few times that JJM were completely weak, among other things. Paul even stated outright that they were "pathetic losers".

Plus, that still never really explained why JJM seemed to lose to several pokemon that their own pokemon should NOT be able to lose to (Case in point, the whole Caterpie incident in the third episode). I mean, even by the whole "sometimes people lose" thing, that's still WAY too pathetic of a loss.

I mean, Ekans and Koffing were able to take down Pidgeotto, and they made Pikachu unable to battle, yet they were batted around easily by a Caterpie who not only was completely inexperienced in terms of Trainer battles, but also was critically wounded from an earlier attack from Pidgeotto. Can you please explain how they can even be considered talented or strong if their pokemon lost that easily?

I Laugh at your Misfortune! July 13th, 2009 6:25 AM

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Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug (Post 4852558)
Paul even stated outright that they were "pathetic losers".

I would be willing to bet that they are not the only people Paul has insulted.

.Seth July 13th, 2009 6:41 AM

Wow I never really noticed that.
I thought something might be up with the new region/season thing...but..

WildEagle July 13th, 2009 6:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weedle_mchairybug (Post 4852558)


Well, going by what Zoey, and even Scott and Brock said, it's not really the same thing.

And, well, Misty and Brock implied a few times that JJM were completely weak, among other things. Paul even stated outright that they were "pathetic losers".

Plus, that still never really explained why JJM seemed to lose to several pokemon that their own pokemon should NOT be able to lose to (Case in point, the whole Caterpie incident in the third episode). I mean, even by the whole "sometimes people lose" thing, that's still WAY too pathetic of a loss.

I mean, Ekans and Koffing were able to take down Pidgeotto, and they made Pikachu unable to battle, yet they were batted around easily by a Caterpie who not only was completely inexperienced in terms of Trainer battles, but also was critically wounded from an earlier attack from Pidgeotto. Can you please explain how they can even be considered talented or strong if their pokemon lost that easily?

Well Paul calls everyone a loser. That is back in Kanto, were they had Ekans and Koffing. In Sinnoh they are actually getting developments, look at Jesse's team she was a mid-powerhouse with Yanmega/Seviper, when it battles in contest, and gets downgraded for blast-off. Watch the episode were James gave Cacnea to gardenia, James was actually holding on his grounds in a battle against Ash. JJM were horrible in Kanto/Orange Islands/Johto and actually hold their own in Hoenn, and improve their battling skills in Sinnoh.

Replies are in bold letters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Screw the rules, I have green hair! (Post 4852568)
I would be willing to bet that they are not the only people Paul has insulted.

Lmao, out of the whole series, the only person that Paul didn't call a loser was Brock.

Pokedude45 July 13th, 2009 8:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Poker Face (Post 4813118)
You mean like how Pikachu was able to beat a Regice with one hit and lost to an Elekid? Yeah... I heard Ash crushes Pikachu's skull before going to a new region to achieve this weakened state. Thank God he does that, if he didn't
we've had an unveliable amount of 'Aim for the horn' variations. xD

Mybe it was just a super strong Elekid LOL

Mybe sinnoh pokemon tend to be stronger.etc ?

WildEagle July 14th, 2009 4:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokedude45 (Post 4855185)
Mybe it was just a super strong Elekid LOL

Mybe sinnoh pokemon tend to be stronger.etc ?

Paul trains his Pokemon like a mad man, he could have train Elekid against his Torterra -.-


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