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-   -   4th Gen HM-moves Speculation... (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=185395)

pizzakoe July 8th, 2009 8:23 AM

HM-moves Speculation...
 
Hya!

Say, What about the HM Moves?
These ones have always been the same:
HM 01 - Cut
HM 02 - Fly
HM 03 - Surf
HM 04 - strength
HM 05 - Flash

We know that Rock Smash is a field move, too, but in G/S/C it wasn't a HM, Rock smash has always been a HM since R/S/E
Then you have HM 06 and 07, which were Whirlpool and Watterfall.
And in Gold you had the fieldmove Headbutt.
Will Rock Climb return? or was it D/P/Pt only?

Will all these attacks above be HM's?

Discuss!!

Captain Riolu July 8th, 2009 8:29 AM

I'm sure the DPP TMs and HMs will stay, just the other "lost" Hms and TMs be solved the way they were in FR/LG: move tutors. I just hope they don't require crazy shards or heart scales for the lesser ones like headbutt.

derozio July 8th, 2009 8:51 AM

Sorry but flash became a TM in D/P/Pt. W/E I think that whirlpool and waterfall will be HMs. Dunno about Defog though!

Kazukii July 8th, 2009 8:55 AM

I hope Rock Climb doesn't return, it was an awful move =/

pizzakoe July 8th, 2009 8:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusher 1 (Post 4832198)
Sorry but flash became a TM in D/P/Pt. W/E I think that whirlpool and waterfall will be HMs. Dunno about Defog though!

Whoops! I forgot to mention Defog!
Well, I did not really play D/P/Pt, so I forgot what you just said ;)

Captain Riolu July 8th, 2009 9:09 AM

As much as I dislike Rock Climb, it will most likely stay, at least availabilty wise, hopefully cutting down on necessary climbing spots.
I'm definitely not looking forward to Flash being a necessary move again.

Eggie Poo Poo July 8th, 2009 9:23 AM

My guess and I can 99.9% confirm this:

There will be no Defog, Rock Climb or Dive in HG/SS. Just the traditional ones and Whirlpool and Flash will be added as HM's again. There won't be a problem with HM flash because when you trade it'll just stop you. Same with Whirlpool. Or it could just stop all HM pokemon trading in general (does it already do that?)

pizzakoe July 8th, 2009 9:52 AM

I think they will leave all the Attacks, but they won't make Every Attack a Field move (In pokemon Red Dratini could learn Watterfall, but it wasnt used as fieldmove)
And You were also able to trade a Pokemon with the move Dive to Fire red and Leaf Green, but you couldn't use it as a fieldmove

Captain Riolu July 8th, 2009 1:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eggie Poo Poo (Post 4832348)
There will be no Defog, Rock Climb or Dive in HG/SS. Just the traditional ones and Whirlpool and Flash will be added as HM's again. There won't be a problem with HM flash because when you trade it'll just stop you. Same with Whirlpool. Or it could just stop all HM pokemon trading in general (does it already do that?)

Oh heavens no, my dear. I don't want sever trading limitations with two games of the same generation. Which is part of the reason they made these remakes was to make obtaining certain Pokemon easier.

Sweet Smoochum July 8th, 2009 2:06 PM

Well, we know that Cut and Rock Smash will be in these games. Will surf be in this game? Hm? I don't know. These are the moves I think will be in still: Rock Smash, Cut , Surf (obviously b/c of water), Fly (obvy), whirlpool (that pic of lugia w/ whirl islands? hello?) waterfall needed. I think everything will be an HM again. Except for possibly Flash. That may be a TM. We might not even need it. They could just make the caves lighter like with Slowpoke well. I don't think Defog will be an HM. Same with Rock Climb. Cut and Rock Smash have definitely been confirmed in this game.

Cut, Fly, Surf, Rock Smash, Strength, Whirlpool, Waterfall-I can pretty much bet that they'll all remain HMs. It is possible that they could get rid of HM Flash and make it a TM. If anything, Flash would be needed for Dark Cave and that's it. (I haven't played my Silver in a while, so don't expect this to be a perfect post.)

~*!*~Tatsujin Gosuto~*!*~ July 8th, 2009 2:20 PM

I actually like Rock Climb its much more creative then the other ones and Defogging Fig away is so much cooler than Flash


:t354:TG

Vyro July 8th, 2009 2:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~*!*~Queen Boo~*!*~ (Post 4833716)
I actually like Rock Climb its much more creative then the other ones and Defogging Fig away is so much cooler than Flash


:t354:TG

Agreed. also, defog rocks because it's not mandatory. You can still make it through the area without it.

giradialkia July 8th, 2009 2:41 PM

Flash probably wont become an HM again- as I've said somewhere before, Pokemon doesn't really contradict itself. This can be seen with evolutions. If Eevee evolved into Leafeon through the Leaf Stone, what would happen if you tried it in any pre-4th gen game? Exactly, it wouldn't work.
Back to topic (and yes, the above is relevant, in order to make sense of what i'm about to say).
What if Flash did return as an HM? Then, someone owning DP or Pt wants to trade. They make their Pokemon hold TM 70, Flash (i think). When that comes through to HGSS.. You'd have both a TM and an HM of Flash. Which wouldn't make any sense whatsoever. So, Whirlpool will probably return as an HM, too, in order to give the Whirl Islands a namesake. Rock Smash... It wasn't vital, but there's no reason to make it a TM again, so that'll stay HM. I hope Dive is never seen again. I hated it. Stupid Relicanth...

Samme! July 8th, 2009 7:00 PM

Well in the official commercial it shows a tyranitar using rock smash but that doesnt really confirm much however... I really hope they add back whirlpool because it makes the Whirl Islands so much better

Allure XI July 8th, 2009 7:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giradialkia (Post 4833818)
What if Flash did return as an HM? Then, someone owning DP or Pt wants to trade. They make their Pokemon hold TM 70, Flash (i think). When that comes through to HGSS.. You'd have both a TM and an HM of Flash. Which wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

My best guess is that Flash will remain an HM, for the reasons that Giradialkia stated here. The games in the same generation must stay compatible, and if Flash was turned back into an HM, the above predicament would occur.

Åzurε July 8th, 2009 7:40 PM

Yep. Compatability is key. I say, everything will stay the same for the TM list, but someone will teach or provide you with flash and whirlpool.

Personally, I'd like to see diving areas make a comeback, but meh.

Allure XI July 8th, 2009 7:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mOOG (Post 4834904)
Yep. Compatability is key. I say, everything will stay the same for the TM list, but someone will teach or provide you with flash and whirlpool.

Personally, I'd like to see diving areas make a comeback, but meh.

I didn't mind dive in RSE, but I hope diving areas aren't in HGSS because they weren't in the original... I'm just hoping for the most similarities between the remakes and the originals as possible. Ahh, I'm too nostalgic.

Satoshi Ookami July 8th, 2009 11:10 PM

Since some screenies showed that Rock Smash was used outside of battle I'd bet on that Rock Smash will be HM 06. Whirlpool should be also because of Whirl Isle... and Dive and Rock Climb? I don't think they'll be useful so I don't think they'll be HMs

derozio July 8th, 2009 11:16 PM

I think that they will have the ones below:

Cut, Flash(maybe it will remain a tm and some other Hm will take its place), Fly, Strength, Rock Smash, Surf, Whirl pool and Waterfall.

The ones which will not be there are(maybe):

Defog, Dive, Rock Climb.

Ging July 9th, 2009 12:10 AM

I hope 'Dive' returns. Imagine going underwater in Tohjo Falls! *gasps*

Flash was also a stupid idea.... :/ Needs to return as a proper HM.

Ryanniny July 9th, 2009 1:17 AM

I think they'll leave the HM's exactly the same
and include a really obvious move tutor to teach you whirlpool, such as lance
and its a move that can't be over-written and only deleted via move deleter

derozio July 9th, 2009 7:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ging (Post 4835681)

Flash was also a stupid idea.... :/ Needs to return as a proper HM.

Do you mean to say that flash should return as an HM? That would really suck! Many others like me hated Flash just as it was a useless HM. Flash should remain as it is!

xxChazxx July 9th, 2009 8:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crusher 1 (Post 4836803)
Do you mean to say that flash should return as an HM? That would really suck! Many others like me hated Flash just as it was a useless HM.

That added some of the challenge, imo. You could either use it in caves and be stuck with it, or stumble through caves and have a better attack.
I liked it.

derozio July 9th, 2009 8:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxChazxx (Post 4836839)
That added some of the challenge, imo. You could either use it in caves and be stuck with it, or stumble through caves and have a better attack.
I liked it.

I agree that it added challenge, but not much. I was able to go through all the caves which required it without using it. I didn't bothered to use it as I hated it.

Captain Riolu July 9th, 2009 8:05 AM

I really doubt any of the HMs will be changed around. Huge compatibility issues. Thats why they invented move tutors. And also, a move doesn't have to be an HM to be used on the field. Even if Whirlpool and Headbutt arent HMs or TMs, who said they still couldn't serve their field purpose?

Ryanniny July 9th, 2009 8:51 AM

there arent really compatability issues
because if flash & whirlpool were brought back, they're still in DPPt?
either way i doubt they'll change, but you'll have a move tutor (liek the shards one in Pt) that will teach your pokemon whirlpool

>Feelings< July 10th, 2009 7:24 AM

The original HMs from Gold/Silver/Crystal were:

HM 1 - Cut
HM 2 - Fly
HM 3 - Surf
HM 4 - Strength
HM 5 - Flash
HM 6 - Whirlpool
HM 7 - Waterfall
HM 8 - There was no 8th HM in Gold/Silver/Crystal


This time around, the HMs will be these in my opinion:

HM 1 - Cut (As it has been like in G/S/C and D/P/Pt)
HM 2 - Fly (As it has been like in G/S/C and D/P/Pt)
HM 3 - Surf (As it has been like in G/S/C and D/P/Pt)
HM 4 - Strength (As it has been like in G/S/C and D/P/Pt)
HM 5 - Headbutt (Will be explained later below)
HM 6 - Rock Smash (As it has been like in G/S/C and D/P/Pt)
HM 7 - Waterfall (As it has been like in G/S/C and D/P/Pt)
HM 8 - Whirlpool (Will be explained later below)

Now to explain HM 5 and HM 8:

Headbutt will be there instead of Flash or Defog.
Flash was only needed in Whirl Islands and Dark Cave. Just for two place, there doesn't need to be an HM for this, and it wouldn't be compatible if the TM for Flash is traded from Platinum. Flash can remain to be the TM it was, and can still have field effects in those two places or so.
And Defog is useless anyways, so it doesn't need to come back.

Whirlpool will be there instead of Rock Climb or Dive.
There was no Diving spot in the past, so there is no question of it being there.
As for Rock Climb, there was no rock climbing spots in the past either. There is no place in Kanto/Johto that actually even needs to implement Rock Climbing except Whirl Islands, Mt. Mortar and Mt.Silver. Just for three places, they won't bring it back.

Last words: Making Headbutt and Whirlpool HMs also remove the possibility of a bug occurring if TMs are traded. And Hms cannot be traded anyways. So my theory is perfect in all ways possible.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Riolu (Post 4832291)
As much as I dislike Rock Climb, it will most likely stay, at least availability wise, hopefully cutting down on necessary climbing spots.

I don't think so, because there are no necessary rock climbing spots in Kanto or Johto at all - none was there in the past and none needs to be, since there are only three places that can be actually climbed.


Quote:

Originally Posted by giradialkia (Post 4833818)
Pokemon doesn't really contradict itself.

That really is true, even I saw. TMs can be traded, so they must do something about it.
But luckily HMs can't be traded, so there's nothing to worry about them.

But for the same reason that there might be compatibility issues, all the TMs from D/P/Pt needs to be able to be receivable by HG/SS. That means Headbutt and Whirlpool must be turned into HMs, or otherwise be given to someone who teaches move. But because these moves will have field effects and are much more important than normal moves for this, they must be with you all the time, and so need to be made into HMs.


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