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-   -   Are we evolving(in a fast rate)? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=193885)

twocows September 17th, 2009 9:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idiomorph (Post 5125666)
Sorry guys, but this is a really common and very wrong misconception. Average IQ (that is, the value to which IQ scores are normalised each year) tends to increase every generation. See the Flynn effect. Whether or not the cause of this phenomenon is biological remains debatable, but you can't just make blanket statements about the population getting less intelligent.

I'm not sure why people get this impression of decreasing intelligence. I suspect the idiots are just getting a lot louder-- courtesy of wealthy economies, widespread communications technology and increasing literacy rates. There's also been the rise of hardcore religious fundamentalism in the US (note however that it has been coupled with decreasing numbers of religious people in general).

Another misconception I should address here is the idea of 'devolving'. Evolution is not teleocentric-- it is far from linear, and does not progress 'up' or 'down' or 'towards' something. Natural selection acts to generate organisms which are good at reproducing in the environment they find themselves in, and nothing else. If they happen to be better-adapted to a greater range of environments in general, or are what we subjectively see as 'better', it is purely an accessory effect.

I didn't say it was linear. In the very post you quoted, I mentioned that it balances itself out, which is more like sinusoidal.

As for the Flynn Effect, I suspect there is a fair amount of lying with statistics involved. I'm no professional, but I can think of a number of things that make me doubt it. Most importantly, we have IQ being used as a measure of intelligence. Higher IQ scores don't mean people are getting smarter, they mean people are getting better at IQ tests. I still maintain that we're getting stupider overall, and that genetics plays an important role in this.

And as you said, natural selection does encourage adaptation. Our current society promotes stupidity and laziness (and, in fact, idolizes those who have both), and those people tend to breed more and pass those traits along. It seems pretty simple to me.

Shem September 17th, 2009 1:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neku. (Post 5092891)


Lol, of course humans will one day evolve. We can have known the Whales and Dolphins evolved from mammals, like us. Whats to say that the human race will not evolve into Ocean Dwellers? We could even be evolving now to adapt to what society is doing to our Atmosphere and Ozone.


We won't have to adapt because we will come up with new technology so that most people would survive instead of just those fit for the new conditions surviving.

Idiomorph September 18th, 2009 1:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocows (Post 5126055)
Most importantly, we have IQ being used as a measure of intelligence. Higher IQ scores don't mean people are getting smarter, they mean people are getting better at IQ tests

I'll readily admit that IQ isn't exactly an ideal representation of intelligence, but it is one of the best we have. What alternative quantitative system are you proposing? The same effect is observed with other means of measurement-- and not just from crappy governmental surveys or whatever, these are real papers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocows (Post 5126055)
I still maintain that we're getting stupider overall, and that genetics plays an important role in this.

You have not provided evidence for either claim. Given the timescales involved and the speed of human cultural evolution it is very unlikely that genetics plays a significant role in these changes, whether they be positive or negative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocows (Post 5126055)
I didn't say it was linear. In the very post you quoted, I mentioned that it balances itself out, which is more like sinusoidal.

Sorry-- by 'linear' I meant 'one-dimensional'. 'Devolving' is a ridiculous term because there is no objective measurement by which something can be said to be 'more' or 'less' evolved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocows (Post 5126055)
Our current society promotes stupidity and laziness (and, in fact, idolizes those who have both), and those people tend to breed more and pass those traits along. It seems pretty simple to me

There is an inverse correlation between IQ and fertility, but the effects of upbringing and culture on measurements of intelligence are so massive that it isn't at all clear whether there is any sort of causation involved, let alone a genetic basis. It is more likely that both have independent correlations with some other explanatory variable, such as wealth-- see the demographic-economic paradox.

beauty. proletariat September 18th, 2009 3:45 AM

I'm going to add something here.

Us as humans are much too developed to develop / evolve any further. Evolution comes through natural selection and also pressure in the environment. Large amounts of a given species die off before they start adapting and evolving, humans are at a stage where we shape the environment to suit us. We're putting pressure on the environment, but we feel no pressure (except stress which isnt that big imo). An excellent example of this are insecticides and how we have to make them stronger every few years after insects get used to them.

When we evolve, one main thing that evolves with us is our brain, and the human brain is already at the epitome of development. The only thing that can occur now, is an increase in the thinking power / amount of brain we use as humans only use 2% of their brainpower.

IQ is not something that is human made and is flawed. Apart from the genes that you gain through natural selection (your parents), you are on your own. IQ plays a very little part. You will find that children that have a very educated, diverse life up until they are approximately 5-6 years old, will generally be smarter as this is the "development" phase of the brain. Why do you think exchange students from asia are so smart? They start school when they're 3.

And talk about people not having beards anymore due to evolution.... :/ Its actually due to changes in trends. Its like asking why blazers / suits arent compulsory in high school, or uniform in america. Its due to changing trends.

Evolution in humans.... Will not happen.

The spine, the brain, the shape of the jaw! It is all linked to our evolution. We have evolved way too much. In the middle ages, the human brain had a capacity of 1500 CCs, this has been developed this to 1700 CCs. It is estimated that this is the maximum thinking capacity we are able to contain. Sadly, there is no place for evolution.

@ twocows.

We are not getting dumber, its just that education is given less and less importance. Look at my asian countries reference.


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