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Haku. November 10th, 2009 12:34 AM

Possible future hacking style
 
What do you think is possible out of the 3 possible future hacking.
Post your thoughts on this and comment it.

1.Adding more tilesets by asm hacking?

2.Adding more than 400 Pokemon?This means expanding the rom

3.More palletes? I know this already have been creted by JPAN but by more palletes i mean bypassing the 16 color limits

For me i think all is possible it's just that someone haven't found out a way to implement them in the rom.

.Seth November 10th, 2009 5:03 AM

Well, when you consider how you can add more tilesets now without ASM, and how there are 411 pokemon slots in BPRE/Others, some have been done.

But, I think the palette expansion would be impossible (except for the titlescreen, since it has two layers), since I think it has to do with the GBA's limits.

Tropical Sunlight November 10th, 2009 5:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .Seth (Post 5308126)
But, I think the palette expansion would be impossible (except for the titlescreen, since it has two layers), since I think it has to do with the GBA's limits.

Yes, imagine the pallete being displayed in VBA's pallete viewer... That's just GBA standards.

Wichu November 10th, 2009 8:14 AM

2 is possible, and has been worked on, but I haven't heard from HackMew in ages (who was working on hacking the Pokédex to allow it to store data on up to 772 Pokémon). In fact, I have an FR ROM which contains the data of the D/P Pokémon on my PC right now. Unfortunately, it's not ready for release, due to the aforementioned Pokédex problem.

slawter666 November 10th, 2009 8:51 AM

Is that project still alive, as no-one has posted any progress on it for quite some time?
and why is it there can only be 16 colours, is it something to do with the gba format?

(sorry if this has been asked before)

Juan November 10th, 2009 9:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmouvelianx (Post 5307848)
What do you think is possible out of the 3 possible future hacking.
Post your thoughts on this and comment it.

1.Adding more tilesets by asm hacking?

2.Adding more than 400 Pokemon?This means expanding the rom

3.More palletes? I know this already have been creted by JPAN but by more palletes i mean bypassing the 16 color limits

For me i think all is possible it's just that someone haven't found out a way to implement them in the rom.

1 - This is already possible, already a tuotorioal about it.

2 - This is already possible.

3 - Impossible, GBA does not support more than 256 colors (256/16*16 BG & 256/16*16 Sprite).

FinalZero November 10th, 2009 10:09 AM

Quote:

2 - This is already possible.
For generation 3? Is there a thread about how to do this somewhere?

Haku. November 10th, 2009 10:10 AM

well i think pallete hacking is possible..
we just need a new gba player and tweak the gba codes around.
I'm reading tutorials on asm hacking and relevant infomations on pallete

hi sir tomato my password is syvniti November 10th, 2009 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmouvelianx (Post 5308626)
well i think pallete hacking is possible..
we just need a new gba player and tweak the gba codes around.
I'm reading tutorials on asm hacking and relevant infomations on pallete

I think you shold reread those tutorials, because you don't seem to get a lot out of them, Or read the post above.
http://nocash.emubase.de/gbatek.htm#gbalcdvideocontroller

Edit: (-:

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinalZero (Post 5308621)
For generation 3? Is there a thread about how to do this somewhere?

Yes.
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=185257

Juan November 10th, 2009 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmouvelianx (Post 5308626)
well i think pallete hacking is possible..
we just need a new gba player and tweak the gba codes around.
I'm reading tutorials on asm hacking and relevant infomations on pallete

1 - http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=156018

2 - http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=185257

3 - http://nocash.emubase.de/gbatek.htm#gbalcdvideocontroller

FinalZero November 10th, 2009 2:26 PM

Well, yeah, I already knew about that thread, but it appears to have stalled for some time, so I assumed they didn't make any actual progress. There's a difference between saying that you're going to do something and actually getting it done...

This seems useful, but I'm not sure. Shouldn't the name have some bytes somewhere? But apparently that's separate? Also, why don't they list the offsets? I mean, it won't be hard to find, but blarg at having yet another project for me to do...

For the Contact byte, assuming that it's a bitset, don't they know what order it's in? If I can deduce how the bitset is setup by comparing moves I'll make an improved attack editor tool that'll let one edit the priority of a move, and whether a move is
1) makes contact
2) affected by protect
3) affected by magic coat
4) affected by snatch
5) affected by brightpowder
6) affected by king's rock
7) ???
8) ???

Theorically, we would could use the final two bits for something if they truly are empty.

And finally, shouldn't their be a final byte (or two) to deterimine the effect, like whether the attack lowers def, or acts like metronome, or has a higher crit rate than normal?

Thinking about it some, I think it's likely one of those two final bits determines whether a move is sound based or not, thus affecting whether it can be blocked by soundproof/cacophony or not.

thethethethe November 11th, 2009 1:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmouvelianx (Post 5308626)
well i think pallete hacking is possible..
we just need a new gba player and tweak the gba codes around.
I'm reading tutorials on asm hacking and relevant infomations on pallete

It isn't a game related thing. It's a limitation of the console. You can't change any codes whatsoever. If you want more colours you need to hack a game from another console.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinalZero (Post 5309164)
Well, yeah, I already knew about that thread, but it appears to have stalled for some time, so I assumed they didn't make any actual progress. There's a difference between saying that you're going to do something and actually getting it done...

Actually most of it got done. All I think is left is the cries and to expand the Pokedex. The added Pokemon basically act in the same way as the extra 25 in between Celebi and Treecko.

Haku. November 11th, 2009 3:38 AM

so,.. it's imposible to expand the 16 color thing?
..well we could always try to do another thing..
say expanding the length of a rival's name?
there must be an offset of the rival name in hex editor..
is it possible?

Wichu November 11th, 2009 6:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thethethethe (Post 5310559)
Actually most of it got done. All I think is left is the cries and to expand the Pokedex. The added Pokemon basically act in the same way as the extra 25 in between Celebi and Treecko.

The footprints, too. Anyone know where they're located in the ROM? :P

Haku. November 11th, 2009 7:10 AM

let me try to search for the footprints.
anyone could give me the offset to the pokedex?

HackMew November 11th, 2009 7:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmouvelianx (Post 5307848)
1.Adding more tilesets by asm hacking?

2.Adding more than 400 Pokemon?This means expanding the rom

3.More palletes? I know this already have been creted by JPAN but by more palletes i mean bypassing the 16 color limits.

Those should have been posted in the Simple Questions IMHO. Anyway...

1. No ASM is required. You just need to know where the tileset table is located, repoint it somewhere else and add more entries.

2. It's possible already. But due to Pokédex limitations, it doesn't make a lot of sense, for now.

3. The correct question is "more colors". And that's just not possible due to the way the GBA works. Get over it.

Wichu November 11th, 2009 9:40 AM

So I take it you're not working on that any more? It would be great if we could finish that project someday...

HackMew November 11th, 2009 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wichu (Post 5311423)
So I take it you're not working on that any more? It would be great if we could finish that project someday...

Even though we're kinda off-topic, I don't know where did you make that assumption from. I'm just busy, that's it.
And it would be better if people stop spamming the project thread unlike me, I guess.
As for the Pokédex, I tracked down the related routines a while ago, but being rather confusing I put them on hold (along with other stuff TBH). My main occupation is Oro Sole right now.

FinalZero November 12th, 2009 12:31 AM

Quote:

Actually most of it got done. All I think is left is the cries and to expand the Pokedex. The added Pokemon basically act in the same way as the extra 25 in between Celebi and Treecko.
Oh, I wasn't aware that progress was made. Forgive me.

Quote:

Even though we're kinda off-topic, I don't know where did you make that assumption from. I'm just busy, that's it.
And it would be better if people stop spamming the project thread unlike me, I guess.
As for the Pokédex, I tracked down the related routines a while ago, but being rather confusing I put them on hold (along with other stuff TBH). My main occupation is Oro Sole right now.
Heh, and here I was under the impression that the project was abondoned... I await your solution.
Quote:

This seems useful, but I'm not sure. Shouldn't the name have some bytes somewhere? But apparently that's separate? Also, why don't they list the offsets? I mean, it won't be hard to find, but blarg at having yet another project for me to do...

For the Contact byte, assuming that it's a bitset, don't they know what order it's in? If I can deduce how the bitset is setup by comparing moves I'll make an improved attack editor tool that'll let one edit the priority of a move, and whether a move is
1) makes contact
2) affected by protect
3) affected by magic coat
4) affected by snatch
5) affected by brightpowder
6) affected by king's rock
7) ???
8) ???

Theorically, we would could use the final two bits for something if they truly are empty.

And finally, shouldn't their be a final byte (or two) to deterimine the effect, like whether the attack lowers def, or acts like metronome, or has a higher crit rate than normal?

Thinking about it some, I think it's likely one of those two final bits determines whether a move is sound based or not, thus affecting whether it can be blocked by soundproof/cacophony or not.
After looking at this stuff, it's made much more sense. That contact bit is indeed a bit array, but the very first 2 bits are always blank, they do nothing. This means that to make a move a sound move one would have to locate the routine for the abilities SoundProof and Cacophony and then edit them to include the desired attack. But I don't know how to do this, so it'll have to be ignored in my program until it is. Would anybody know how to trace/locate such a thing?

Nevertheless, my attack editor program that'll let you edit the contact byte and priority byte (which interestingly overlaps with the effect byte for moves like quick attack, extremespeed, etc, which have their ability all set to something other than normal (I haven't tested which byte (or both) is needed to make the move actually be a priority ahead yet)). Just give me a couple days to finish it. =p

Also, does anyone know where the bytes that determine what animation a move uses are?

ZodiacDaGreat November 13th, 2009 2:46 PM

I'd say whatever is possible or impossible, is really limited to the console's hardware (GBA) and the programmer or coder's (ASM hackers) skills ;) Any other stuff that do not involve these are cake.

Ninja Caterpie November 13th, 2009 4:04 PM

The only limit to hacking a GBA rom is the GBA engine itself.

FinalZero November 13th, 2009 4:55 PM

Quote:

The only limit to hacking a GBA rom is the GBA engine itself.
Not really, with good enough ASM hacking you could change anything. So like Zodiac said, it's up to the hacker's ASM skills.

Vrai November 13th, 2009 9:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinalZero (Post 5317296)
Not really, with good enough ASM hacking you could change anything. So like Zodiac said, it's up to the hacker's ASM skills.

As far as I know, though, ASM doesn't really affect the limitations of the GBA engine. For example, you can't really use ASM to add another button to the system. So, yeah, the only real limitations are those of the engine.

Ninja Caterpie November 13th, 2009 9:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinalZero (Post 5317296)
Not really, with good enough ASM hacking you could change anything. So like Zodiac said, it's up to the hacker's ASM skills.

No, you couldn't. ASM is still limited by how far the engine could go. If you change the ROM to the point that it does something beyond it, it's not a GBA ROM anymore.

Full Metal November 13th, 2009 10:21 PM

correct me if i'm wrong,but getting around the 16 color problem just takes some creativity.
A picture (in layman terms) works like this:
1)Every pixel has a pallette value
2)Changing the pallette value changes the pixel
3)You can change which pallete a 8x8 pixel uses
So if your using a tilemap, and have control over the pallettes then yes, you can. Sort of. It requires making two pallettes, loading them, loading tileset, then loading the tilemap which accurately contains information as to which pallette each one should use. Technically no, you can't have an image with more than 16 color pallettes, and less than 256. But you can create the illusion.

FinalZero November 14th, 2009 1:36 AM

Quote:

No, you couldn't. ASM is still limited by how far the engine could go. If you change the ROM to the point that it does something beyond it, it's not a GBA ROM anymore.
Quote:

As far as I know, though, ASM doesn't really affect the limitations of the GBA engine. For example, you can't really use ASM to add another button to the system. So, yeah, the only real limitations are those of the engine.
Our definition of engines differed in my last post, thus differing opinion. I see what you mean now, and agree witih you.

HackMew November 14th, 2009 1:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinalZero (Post 5317296)
Not really, with good enough ASM hacking you could change anything. So like Zodiac said, it's up to the hacker's ASM skills.

In fact, you misread what ZodiacDaGreat said:

Quote:

...is really limited to the console's hardware (GBA) and the programmer or coder's (ASM hackers) skills...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Metal (Post 5318095)
correct me if i'm wrong,but getting around the 16 color problem just takes some creativity.
A picture (in layman terms) works like this:
1)Every pixel has a pallette value
2)Changing the pallette value changes the pixel
3)You can change which pallete a 8x8 pixel uses
So if your using a tilemap, and have control over the pallettes then yes, you can. Sort of. It requires making two pallettes, loading them, loading tileset, then loading the tilemap which accurately contains information as to which pallette each one should use. Technically no, you can't have an image with more than 16 color pallettes, and less than 256. But you can create the illusion.

You're wrong.

1) There's no such thing as a "8x8 pixel". That's a tile.
2) It's spelled palette. Don't get fooled by Pallet Town.
3) There are 3 types of pictures, mostly. 2BPP, 4BPP and 8BPP. BPP means "Bits Per Pixel". Each type support up to (2^n) - 1 colors. So, for a 4BPP picture that means 15 colors (the first color is always reserved as the transparent one). For a 4BPP picture, there's no way to have more than 15+1 colors, and you can't do anything about it. It's not actually a GBA limit, but rather a 4BPP limit, due to the way the data is stored. If you want to use more than 16 colors, your only option is to use a 8BPP picture, which can handle up to 255+1 colors. However, such formats are not interchangeable, obviously. If the game is supposed to load a 4BPP picture, it won't load an 8BPP one and vice-versa. It might try to load it anyway, but it wouldn't ever work. That, unless you ASM hack it. Either way, you can't go beyond 255+1 colors. And that's a GBA limit.

Full Metal November 14th, 2009 8:44 AM

...which is why i said you can create the illusion
For example,take the world map in FR. It's a 4bb image.
However, i could make the tile map say, load this tile
with this palette, but the others with this one. This
would give the appearance of having a 32color image.
Yes, this technically isn't possible, but it creates
the illusion for the game player. While yes, the game
player might use vba's better capabilities and see that
it's just a 16color image that uses two different palettes
via a tilemap, in this way your not necessarily restrained
as much, since the illusion is all the person should want
anyways. I mean come on, who is going to troll me about
cheating on how to load an image?

FinalZero November 14th, 2009 8:46 PM

Quote:

In fact, you misread what ZodiacDaGreat said:
No I didn't; I caught that. I just misinterpreted their use of "engine" to mean the GBA game's engine, as opposed to the GBA itself's engine.


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