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processr December 9th, 2009 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Teh Panda~ (Post 5364687)
I would count myself as an atheist. Yet unlike a lot of atheists I really don't care of religion. Yet a lot of atheists hate it which I can understand. But an "eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". Sometimes I am heckled for my beliefs (even by teachers >.>). But whatever...

More like apatheism, really. Unless you categorically believe that God does not exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssj5goku5 (Post 5364697)
well to say the least i dont fully utterly believe in the bible no not at all in the least but i do believe that there is something, couldnt anywhere near tell you what, but there is something out there that is "immortal" so to speak if you will.

If you're interested in putting a name to your belief, I believe ietsism covers you nicely. :3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Boy Rob (Post 5365039)
even the other RE teachers are atheist.

You don't have to be religious to teach religious education/studies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chikorita125 (Post 5365403)
i am not an athesist because i beleive that theres a heaven and hell

Atheism is the rejection of God's existence, not a belief in heaven and hell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Converge (Post 5366163)
Personally i have no faith in any religion

Imo its just a waste of time.

So i guess technically i am an atheist

That's more like irreligion, really, bordering into apatheism. Atheism is the categorical denial of God's existence, and neither apathy towards religion nor a lack of faith will necessarily infer atheism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cynic (Post 5384854)
I am a true atheist. many people who call themselves aethoiest are in fact agnostics who would believe if the evidence prooved that god exsisted. I however, would still refuse to worship such a malicious and cruel entity.

If evidence proved that God existed (and I mean proved here, not provided evidence - actual, living, breathing proof) then it would be impossible to not believe in His existence. Therefore, atheism would be impossible; it'd be like refusing to believe in the existence of an everyday item. Like cheese, or something. In that case, your position would be one that refuses to acknowledge God - that would be misotheism, if my knowledge of religious viewpoints is correct. The concepts of theism and atheism would be invalid in such a time, as it would be mad to believe God does not exist and redundant to believe that He does exist. Also, while I do agree with your observation about many self-professed atheists being nearer to agnosticism, it works both ways. A lot of people think "ooh, 'agnosticism' is a fancy word, I'll be that" despite the fact that they believe God cannot exist.

I explained my agnosticism here, so most of that applies in this topic also. :3

Haza December 10th, 2009 7:44 AM

I dont believe in God or the entire concept of gods. It seems way too priimitive and exactly the same as acient civilization practicing rituals and sacrifices for th Sun God and such. Its easier to believe in aliens than God. I just dont trust basing my lifes choices on what people tell you and what you dont know is true. Its brain washing and ignorance in my opinion but I respect those who do believe in religions. And also, I hate it when people call themselves or consider themeselves a devil worshipper and dont beleive in God when if you believe in Satan then you believe in God. :/ Its all just as real as fairy tales to me...

The Cynic December 10th, 2009 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophenia (Post 5385029)
If evidence proved that God existed (and I mean proved here, not provided evidence - actual, living, breathing proof) then it would be impossible to not believe in His existence. Therefore, atheism would be impossible; it'd be like refusing to believe in the existence of an everyday item. Like cheese, or something. In that case, your position would be one that refuses to acknowledge God - that would be misotheism, if my knowledge of religious viewpoints is correct. The concepts of theism and atheism would be invalid in such a time, as it would be mad to believe God does not exist and redundant to believe that He does exist. Also, while I do agree with your observation about many self-professed atheists being nearer to agnosticism, it works both ways. A lot of people think "ooh, 'agnosticism' is a fancy word, I'll be that" despite the fact that they believe God cannot exist.

Yes, but what im say is that even if god exsisted I'd not worship him due to a general dislike of him. I mean surely you shouldnt burden people with disabilities and how can the devil/sin exsist if god is omnipotent/omniscient, surely he could just vanquish sin completely? I guess you could call me a dysteleologist.

processr December 10th, 2009 2:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cynic (Post 5386272)
Yes, but what im say is that even if god exsisted I'd not worship him due to a general dislike of him. I mean surely you shouldnt burden people with disabilities and how can the devil/sin exsist if god is omnipotent/omniscient, surely he could just vanquish sin completely? I guess you could call me a dysteleologist.

I'm not questioning your atheism - I'm just saying that if it was conclusively proved to everyone in the world that God existed, the notions of theism and atheism (and everything in between) would be completely destroyed. Atheism is purely the belief that God does not exist; if he did exist, it would be delusional to even suggest that you believe otherwise. My point wasn't to start a debate about God's existence. Believe me, it's been done a hundred times on these forums alone, and all that happens is the hardcore atheists childishly insult those who believe in religion ("fairy tales" is a common word I see used - clearly such people are incapable of showing even an ounce of respect to their peers), while the fundamentalists tell them they're going to Hell/Gehenna/Jahannam/whatever. It's stupid, it's pointless, and it can only end badly. My remark was nearly throwaway, really - your post just seemed to infer that you would remain atheistic even if you had conclusive proof of God. Everyone would be theist, technically, but it'd be a moot point. New terms would presumably arise; I guess 'antiestablishmentarianism' would be the closest equivalent we have now (antitheism carries different connotations).

But really, we shouldn't be talking so much on what was simply a small point. xD;

Åzurε December 11th, 2009 3:45 AM

I could get into quite the lengthy explanation of aforementioned points, but I won't now. What I will say is this.

Quote:

If evidence proved that God existed, then it would be impossible to not believe in His existence. Therefore, atheism would be impossible; it'd be like refusing to believe in the existence of an everyday item. Like cheese, or something.
You say "impossible"... Objectivity, espcially when combined with irrationality is a powerful influence. How many people do you think would, realistically, even with so much proof in a specific god, would desert what they have been taught and held to as truth for so much time? Not to make this a big fat hairy deal, but think about it. All of you.

Corvus of the Black Night December 11th, 2009 7:54 AM

Can't say I am. Atheism doesn't necesarily cut it for me but I personally feel that if they had proven that a divine being cannot exist with definitive scientific evidence, then I wouldn't mind switching over.

Rich Boy Rob December 11th, 2009 8:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophenia (Post 5385029)
You don't have to be religious to teach religious education/studies.

I know... what's your point? I was just replying to someone else's post about his teachers teasing him about his atheism.

Corvus of the Black Night December 11th, 2009 8:07 AM

Seems like someone was epically confused.

I think personally it's wrong to criticize others either way when it comes to personal beliefs, since it is something so personal, but then again, many people are taught that "what they believe in is right" (which, to be honest, I don't believe anything we currently have is 100% "right" due to bias and self intrest), which is one of the reasons I really hate religious debates. Atheists are just as much to blame for arrogance as any zealous Christian, Muslim, Jew, or anything else for that matter. Religion (or lack of it) is a part of your personal definition, and telling someone is "wholesomely wrong" is attempting to change that definition, change their identity. :p

The Cynic December 11th, 2009 8:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophenia (Post 5386470)
I'm not questioning your atheism - I'm just saying that if it was conclusively proved to everyone in the world that God existed, the notions of theism and atheism (and everything in between) would be completely destroyed. Atheism is purely the belief that God does not exist; if he did exist, it would be delusional to even suggest that you believe otherwise. My point wasn't to start a debate about God's existence. Believe me, it's been done a hundred times on these forums alone, and all that happens is the hardcore atheists childishly insult those who believe in religion ("fairy tales" is a common word I see used - clearly such people are incapable of showing even an ounce of respect to their peers), while the fundamentalists tell them they're going to Hell/Gehenna/Jahannam/whatever. It's stupid, it's pointless, and it can only end badly. My remark was nearly throwaway, really - your post just seemed to infer that you would remain atheistic even if you had conclusive proof of God. Everyone would be theist, technically, but it'd be a moot point. New terms would presumably arise; I guess 'antiestablishmentarianism' would be the closest equivalent we have now (antitheism carries different connotations).

But really, we shouldn't be talking so much on what was simply a small point. xD;

I no your not questioning my beliefs but what Im trying to say is that REGARDLESS OF WHETHER OR NOT I KNEW GOD EXSISTED, I WOULD NOT WORSHIP HIM. I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD. IF HE WAS PROVEN TO EXSIST I WOULD OBVIOUSLY BELIEVE AS BEING A PHYSICS STUDENT I AM A SLAVE TO FACT. BUT I WOULD NOT WORSHIP HIM AS A DEITY.

Sorry for being so blunt, i just dont like being misunderstood.

GymLeaderMisty December 12th, 2009 1:56 AM

Quote:

If I were to give a considered opinion, I'd say it was more likely that God does not exist, mainly because scientific evidence and philosophical evidence from people like Hume, Russell and Singer.
I did not bump that thread.

Apophenia? What Singer are you talking about? Peter Singer? I idolize him... but I do not think he has said anything insightful (as a philosopher about the existence of God.) He is an insightful ethicist though.

GreenStorm December 12th, 2009 7:04 AM

I do believe in God, but I'm not Christian; I'm Muslim. I don't really shove my religion down people's throats. I just believe in what I want.

.little monster December 12th, 2009 8:29 AM

I am not an Atheist, as it is illogical. As well as blind faith.

This is what I believe:

The person who believes in God but is skeptical and understands the possibility of God not existing and existing will be ultimately rewarded in the end if there is a God, while he looses nothing if God does not exist. <- Me

The person who believes in God without a doubt and refuses to listen to the possibility of God not existing will be ultimately rewarded in the end as well. But they will loose everything (as in, the basis for their mentality) if God does not exist.

The person who doesn't believe in God and doubts and refuses to listen to the possibility of God existing will not be ultimately rewarded in the end. But, they will loos nothing if God does not exist.

There is an actual term for this, and it is technically Agnostic, but there is another name for it..

The Cynic December 12th, 2009 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t.A.T.u (Post 5389731)
But, they will loos nothing if God does not exist.

They loose out on the chance to live life to the full and to know the truth.

Virtual Chatot December 12th, 2009 11:30 AM

In my experience, Atheists tend to just poke fun and harass people who actually have religious beliefs. Very rarely do I ever find one that actually tries to have a friendly argument with someone over the existence of God, and almost always it is the Atheist who makes the arguments turn sour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cynic (Post 5390096)
They loose out on the chance to live life to the full and to know the truth.

Living life to the fullest? How is trying to live a moral life inhibiting you from living life to the fullest? Having sex with everyone and everything fulfils your existence in the universe?

Jordan December 12th, 2009 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cynic (Post 5390096)
They lose out on the chance to live life to the full and to know the truth.

It's debatable whether the atheist standpoint is the truth or not, just saying.

.little monster December 12th, 2009 1:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cynic (Post 5390096)
They loose out on the chance to live life to the full and to know the truth.

Whether or not Atheism or devotion is the truth is up to interpretation, and no one person can know which is the truth.

poopnoodle December 12th, 2009 1:45 PM

Quote:

Living life to the fullest? How is trying to live a moral life inhibiting you from living life to the fullest? Having sex with everyone and everything fulfils your existence in the universe?
=3=

Perhaps what The Cynic is trying to say is, that having confidence in a god and having certainty of where you came from and where you're going after death, is to miss out on the opportunity to revel in possibility.

The Cynic December 12th, 2009 1:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t.A.T.u (Post 5390226)
Whether or not Atheism or devotion is the truth is up to interpretation, and no one person can know which is the truth.

I agree, until us scientists can prove otherwise. In the mean time I think us aethiests and you theists should just co-exsist so long as religious beliefs are not forced upon individuals and people retain their free will. My point about living life to the full is about not spending time worshipping something that I don't believe exsists or not having freedom of sexual expression, freedom to write and say what you want, carry out scientific research etc. Although I guess if you wanted those things and did still believe in a magical bearded man who lives in the sky and makes bad things happen then you could be a Deist. But would your Desim take you to the point where you recognise the irrationality or religion and particularly religious law? Eventually yes.

.little monster December 12th, 2009 1:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cynic (Post 5390260)
I agree, until us scientists can prove otherwise. In the mean time I think us aethiests and you theists should just co-exsist so long as religious beliefs are not forced upon individuals and people retain their free will. My point about living life to the full is about not spending time worshipping something that I don't believe exsists or not having freedom of sexual expression, freedom to write and say what you want, carry out scientific research etc. Although I guess if you wanted those things and did still believe in a magical bearded man who lives in the sky and makes bad things happen then you could be a Deist. But would your Desim take you to the point where you recognise the irrationality or religion and particularly religious law? Eventually yes.

You cant prove God doesn't exist because he is supposed to live in a realm that humans cant see or discover.

Virtual Chatot December 12th, 2009 2:09 PM

I'm still not understanding how one's belief in no higher spirituality makes one any more free than the theist. Do you feel any more free? Do you feel like you've ascertained any kind of higher knowledge or thought? Or do you feel nothing, which drives you to try to prove to yourself that there is no God by arguing with others who do believe?

The Cynic December 12th, 2009 2:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virtual Chatot (Post 5390316)
I'm still not understanding how one's belief in no higher spirituality makes one any more free than the theist. Do you feel any more free? Do you feel like you've ascertained any kind of higher knowledge or thought? Or do you feel nothing, which drives you to try to prove to yourself that there is no God by arguing with others who do believe?

OK I'm not trying to be petty and insult your faith. I feel more free because if I wanted to be homosexual or bisexual or even pansexual I could be without fear of burning in hell. I don't need to follow religious law for fear of not going to heaven. I can have complete freedom of thought because lets face it freedom of thought cannot exsist under an omniscient god. I do not have to plan my life in order to have a better afterlife. I will live, and I will die. Dawn to dusk. So I make the most of the day. I have travelled much of the world and wish to do so again once I finish with university. I visited a mosque in Egypt. I saw the people worship and did not have hate for them and was not threatened by them. They were good people. The kindest people I met on my travels were from Egypt. So why in the media do we see such people as violent and evil? Because people use religion as an excuse for the aquisition of power. Religion exploits peoples uncertainties about life and fear of death and uses it to obtain more wealth. Islamic fundamentalism is an example of this. But these are good people blinded by the light and doing this because religion has brainwashed them into thinking if they dont do this then in the afterlife they will be punished. They dont reap the benefits, their so-called religious leaders do. The Klu Klux Klan, The Lord's Resistance Army and the Freedomites are other examples. The deluded individuals who are low down in these organisations are exploited and forced into horrible situations by their leaders who sit back and enjoy what they've gained. Money, power, respect and most importantly total control of other human beings. That is why I believe without religion I am much more free.

Sorry for making such a serious point on a usually lighthearted forum, I just like to make myself clear.

lx_theo December 12th, 2009 4:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Virtual Chatot (Post 5390316)
I'm still not understanding how one's belief in no higher spirituality makes one any more free than the theist. Do you feel any more free? Do you feel like you've ascertained any kind of higher knowledge or thought? Or do you feel nothing, which drives you to try to prove to yourself that there is no God by arguing with others who do believe?

It really depends of how much of a hold it has on the person. If the religion makes the person center their life around it and the promised eternal existence that comes after death, then they'll be bound to living their life for the afterlife rather than for the here and now. People who just believe in it often have a much smaller effect of living for their afterlife than other. Now atheistic people who don't believe in that afterlife can live in the here and now and make the most of their life.

Lana. December 12th, 2009 7:17 PM

In the sense that I'm skeptical about the existence of deities, I suppose. I believe in evolution and the Big Bang Theory. So, in short, yes.

(You have no idea how much I wanted to go on longer for this. xDD)

FlameShocker December 12th, 2009 8:16 PM

Nah, I can't say that I'm an atheist. I'm far from it, since I'm Roman Catholic (meaning I believe in the Pope; deal with it if you don't).

Spinor December 13th, 2009 12:21 AM

If I ever count myself as an atheist that severely reduces my chances of getting with any girl.

With that in mind, I don't think I'll be chasing atheism, thank you very much.


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