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-   -   Can we get a new variety of hacks, please? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=204273)

interdpth December 30th, 2009 10:10 AM

Can we get a new variety of hacks, please?
 
I see tons of Johto remakes.
Tons of just simple recolors.
Tons of "I MAKE THIS" then it dies and and is never heard from again.
I see tons and tons of well, poo. Of course we get several diamonds in the rough that are just amazing.

But come on people, get original, like that Mechamon hack, and Azure Horizons, my hack, and the other great ones.

WORK ON SOMETHING GREAT, YO.

MAKE YOURSELF PROUD.

STOP PRODUCING POO. :)

Chibi Robo December 30th, 2009 1:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by interdpth (Post 5434389)
STOP PRODUCING POO. :)

I have been doing exactly that for a week now, should I call a doctor?

No but really hacks these days are like you've said "are poo"
People need to put lots of time and effort into their hacks and settle for nothing less. Learn how to script or map or even how to sprite. I promise you if you practice long enough and hard enough you will become much better then you were before. (b'')b

NarutoActor December 30th, 2009 1:53 PM

I see tons of Johto remakes.- yes an it's over used. Even Some of the great hackers(and your friend) Make Johto hacks.
Tons of just simple recolors.- I don't even waist my time with those hacks.
Tons of "I MAKE THIS" then it dies and and is never heard from again.-that's usaly the scarpbox that's why I never go there anymore, it's depressing.
I see tons and tons of well, poo. Of course we get several diamonds in the rough that are just amazing.- I argue the ability to get into the progressive hack section is way to easy. My hack Got in the progressive hack section with only a weeks worth of work.

But come on people, get original, like that Mechamon hack, and Azure Horizons, my hack, and the other great ones. ( why, aren't you a little prideful XD)

WORK ON SOMETHING GREAT, YO.

MAKE YOURSELF PROUD.

STOP PRODUCING POO. :)- I will take that into consideration, I guess. :P (but why so silly if you really want people to change you should act more serious or they will think it was a joke.

interdpth December 30th, 2009 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colcolstyles (Post 5435180)
Oh yeah man, totally! Let's all complain about everyone else and refuse the fix the problem ourselves!

Look, I understand that you are a very capable hacker, better than the vast majority of members here at PC. However, that doesn't give you the right to prance around and rip on everyone else's work. True, a lot of people think that they can make an amazing hack in a day. Those types of people will always come to this forum and leave within a week. So why even bother to criticize them? If you want to influence them, then you should go out and create a truly revolutionary hack. As a competent hacker, the power to change the state of hacking lies in your hands, not the n00bs'.

I'm criticizing on things that NEED to be criticized upon. Nothing lies in my hands that could change the way of the hacking state, short of me making a small hack and that getting spread into x number of poo hacks, even I wasn't agreed with, then this thread wouldn't have been approved.

No?

ZodiacDaGreat December 30th, 2009 2:15 PM

Quote:

I see tons of Johto remakes.- yes an it's over used. Even Some of the great hackers(and your friend) Make Johto hacks.
I see what you mean there :P I guess it's quality and not quantity ^^

colcolstyles December 30th, 2009 2:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by interdpth (Post 5435215)
I'm criticizing on things that NEED to be criticized upon. Nothing lies in my hands that could change the way of the hacking state, short of me making a small hack and that getting spread into x number of poo hacks, even I wasn't agreed with, then this thread wouldn't have been approved.

No?

I agree that the hacking scene needs to change. I just don't see how complaining about how bad things are helps to mitigate the problem. Do you honestly believe that one of the members you are describing is going to 1) even notice this; and 2) actually make any changes to their hacking (though I'm sure you wouldn't even call it "hacking")? There has and always will be low quality hacks, just like there will always be low quality movies, video games, books, you name it. You'd best accept it and move on.

interdpth December 30th, 2009 2:30 PM

No, they won't in all 6 years i've been doing this they haven't. But the mods can wipe them off the board until they do.

HINT HINT.

interdpth December 30th, 2009 2:40 PM

That would be very sexy to start off with.

NarutoActor December 30th, 2009 2:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony La (Post 5435294)
If waving goodbye to the crapbox does it then there's half your solution.

I agree with interdpth that the majority of hacks from the scrapbox don't go far, and I agree I would be happier with out it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by colcolstyles (Post 5435240)
I agree that the hacking scene needs to change. I just don't see how complaining about how bad things are helps to mitigate the problem. Do you honestly believe that one of the members you are describing is going to 1) even notice this; and 2) actually make any changes to their hacking (though I'm sure you wouldn't even call it "hacking")? There has and always will be low quality hacks, just like there will always be low quality movies, video games, books, you name it. You'd best accept it and move on.

interdpth he is 100% right. In everything there will be low, and high quaility. All we can do is change the standereds. Higher standers higher quality hacks. (hint hint :P stronger polices on the progressive hacks section)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodiacDaGreat (Post 5435226)
I see what you mean there :P I guess it's quality and not quantity ^^

Yup, and I was referring to you lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by interdpth (Post 5435317)
That would be very sexy to start off with.

Like I said if you joke around with all this all it will be is a failed attempt. If you want something done takes things more seriously.

Toxicroak December 30th, 2009 3:17 PM

I have a great idea for a hack, but im having a lot of trouble with the HEX codes etc...

i wanted the hole region to be like the great marsh, and it would have had bridges running over the mud...


the starters are croagunk, stunky and skorupi.

interdpth December 30th, 2009 3:19 PM

I have no clue how you think I was joking, I use "sexy" instead of "great" everywhere I go.

558122_DG December 30th, 2009 4:20 PM

kk, but as you said before there are diamonds out there... and it is up to those gamers out there to find those diamonds just as it is to us hackers who produce those diamonds...as you know diamonds take millions of years to be produced :)

but personally i think my hack will become a diamond one day :) well I hope it will :) Alot of hack ideas have the potential to succeed but they all fail cause of the lack in skill the hackers possess. We must help those who are less experienced then ourselves, nnot just ignore they're repeated PMs begging for help or just say "I don't have time", when half the time ur just sitting there...

well you do carry a point in saying alot of hacks these days are crap, but thats olny cause we get lazy and make'em crap. If everyhacker went out there and took the time to learn and practise instead of saying I NEED HELP!!!, then hacks and hackers will be diamonds :)

イーブイ December 30th, 2009 7:11 PM

Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap.

You can't stop the untalented from creating crap. The best you can do is try to teach them (gently) why their creations are crap, or create non-crap yourself. Both are difficult tasks.

Rabbit December 30th, 2009 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by interdpth (Post 5435282)
No, they won't in all 6 years i've been doing this they haven't. But the mods can wipe them off the board until they do.

HINT HINT.

*** yes. The Scrapbox desperately needs moderation. It would only take some ground rules. No more "I MAKE THIS" (as you so eloquently put it) unless you have skills, team members, and a working plan. The Scrapbox is filled with rubbish. So many noobs pull a storyline out of their orifices and make a thread about it, and half a dozen people show up and call it a great hack. IT'S NOT A HACK. IT'S AN IDEA FOR A HACK. AN IDEA THAT WILL NEVER GET ANYWHERE BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO HACKING SKILLS. RANT RANT RANT RANT

------------

What I want to see in a hack is a complete deviation from the standard Pokemon game. I don't understand why people would choose to labour so hard, for such a long time, and produce something that's a variation of Ruby, or Fire Red, or Silver. The maps are different, the evil team has a different name and goal, maybe the Pokemon are changed, but it's still the exact same formula. You run through the region, levelling your Pokes, battling gym leaders, rivals, and evil dudes, and best the Elite Four. There's a lot of mindless clicking involved. Only self-imposed restrictions can make it challenging.

But maybe that's just me. After all, Diamond and Pearl use that formula, and they seem pretty popular. :|

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxicroak (Post 5435430)
I have a great idea for a hack, but im having a lot of trouble with the HEX codes etc...

i wanted the hole region to be like the great marsh, and it would have had bridges running over the mud...


the starters are croagunk, stunky and skorupi.

So...you want to change the maps and starters. And you can't script. What makes your idea brilliant?

Zeffy December 30th, 2009 8:03 PM

Mostly of the hackers that posts in the scrapbox are untalented at hacking. They just post an say "I mehk dis, if u stil my aydiya i will repurt u." The scrapbox needs stricter moderation, or it should be removed.

chrunch December 30th, 2009 8:24 PM

Yeah, A lot of hacks in the scrapbox are crap...
But you can't stop the noobs...
The scrapbox needs better moderation, say each hack in there needs atleast one screenie...

Toxicroak December 30th, 2009 9:56 PM

Quote:

So...you want to change the maps and starters. And you can't script. What makes your idea brilliant?
My idea is briliant because the scenery of the great marsh is awsome :)

anyways i game up on that and im making a new rom hack as we speak.

im devamping every pokemon :)

im about 5% done

Tropical Sunlight December 31st, 2009 1:39 AM

No. Simply no. What makes you post this? I started in the Scrapbox. I tried, 2 times. Wouldn't work. I tried the third time. Now I did it. I made it to the Progressing Hacks (Actually before there was no Progressing Hacks, just the Scrapbox and the Hacks Showcase.). I agree with you that there are just some idiotic people. But not all of them. Say, how many of you already finished your hack? Did you ever release an alpha, or a beta? You can't just do that. What I'm trying to say is, people need to start somewhere. If there's no Scrapbox, even higher standards, you'll decrease the popoularity of the ROM Hacking section.

Please. You're making it harder for everybody.

Banjora Marxvile December 31st, 2009 4:41 AM

The idea of getting rid of the scrapbox is... Absurd, to say the least. yes, there are a load of crap hacks, and bad hackers, but some really do shine. All these hackers need is patience, motivation, and support, not endless amount of complaints. This demotivates, and really doesn't help anything. if we gave constructive criticism more often, and stopped people give false hope to hacks that need vast improvement, then less of these worse hacks will arrive.

Actually, here's an idea to get rid of bad hacking - ban hacking. True you get no hacks at all, but no news is good news. THAT is basically what you are doing with the Scrapbox being... Scrapped. It is a place for beginnings, and those improvements you learn there pay off in the long run most of the time. Don't like the bad hacks that are there, don't go there, focus on the other areas.

interdpth December 31st, 2009 9:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxicroak (Post 5436505)
My idea is briliant because the scenery of the great marsh is awsome :)

anyways i game up on that and im making a new rom hack as we speak.

im devamping every pokemon :)

im about 5% done

This post stands for everything my first post said.

NarutoActor December 31st, 2009 9:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychicboy (Post 5436321)
Wow.. I guess I shall give you guys a simple response..


http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=196223
^This.

You know guys, if you want to see a nice variety of unique hacks, you gotta do it yourself.

although I agree that if you want a variety you have to START with yourself, but there will still be people making crapy hacks, that's why you need to have a higher standard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxicroak (Post 5436505)
My idea is briliant because the scenery of the great marsh is awsome :)

anyways i game up on that and im making a new rom hack as we speak.

im devamping every pokemon :)

im about 5% done

The idea is not that briliant, your not going to win an acedemy award. :P(JK) I wish you the best of luck, but please stop advertising your hack your just spamming, and making your self sound stupid (sorry for being blunt)

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2O Turquoise (Post 5436814)
No. Simply no. What makes you post this? I started in the Scrapbox. I tried, 2 times. Wouldn't work. I tried the third time. Now I did it. I made it to the Progressing Hacks (Actually before there was no Progressing Hacks, just the Scrapbox and the Hacks Showcase.). I agree with you that there are just some idiotic people. But not all of them. Say, how many of you already finished your hack? Did you ever release an alpha, or a beta? You can't just do that. What I'm trying to say is, people need to start somewhere. If there's no Scrapbox, even higher standards, you'll decrease the popoularity of the ROM Hacking section.

Please. You're making it harder for everybody.

no, you would not decrease the popoularity. There is something about rom hacking that draws people even if they can't make there own hack they can still play hacks. What will happen is the population of hacks whould decrease. All the bad hacks that would be taking up space would disappear and there would be more space for the good hacks.(That's why there are more hacks then ever. It's now easier to make a hack. It used to be harder and if someone really wanted to make a hack and they where serious, then they would have to do there homework. )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviation (Post 5437016)
The idea of getting rid of the scrapbox is... Absurd, to say the least. yes, there are a load of crap hacks, and bad hackers, but some really do shine. All these hackers need is patience, motivation, and support, not endless amount of complaints. This demotivates, and really doesn't help anything. if we gave constructive criticism more often, and stopped people give false hope to hacks that need vast improvement, then less of these worse hacks will arrive.

Actually, here's an idea to get rid of bad hacking - ban hacking. True you get no hacks at all, but no news is good news. THAT is basically what you are doing with the Scrapbox being... Scrapped. It is a place for beginnings, and those improvements you learn there pay off in the long run most of the time. Don't like the bad hacks that are there, don't go there, focus on the other areas.

The progressive hacks is a great place to start. you only need 4 screen shots and I was able to get in quite easily. Sure it takes some work to get 4 screen shots but it shows work and gives them a goal. It also shows that they are serious about rom hacking. It is to easy to get into a scrapbox no work is needed. Any body who is bored can just start a hack and then cancel it in a weeks. Also why do people need a forum to start off? If you don't have any screen shots then there's nothing to criticized.(hence defeats the purpose to even post a starting hack) Get some work done on your computer before posting your hack.

Banjora Marxvile December 31st, 2009 9:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NarutoActor (Post 5437619)
The progressive hacks is a great place to start. you only need 4 screen shots and I was able to get in quite easily. Sure it takes some work to get 4 screen shots but it shows work and gives them a goal. It also shows that they are serious about rom hacking. It is to easy to get into a scrapbox no work is needed. Any body who is bored can just start a hack and then cancel it in a weeks. Also why do people need a forum to start off? If you don't have any screen shots then there's nothing to criticized.(hence defeats the purpose to even post a starting hack) Get some work done on your computer before posting your hack.

You fail to see the point of the Scrapbox. Some people create IDEAS, right? And post them. THEY are to be rated. Some hack creators post their IDEAS before screenshots, to see how they could change it. SOME hackers want a pretty solid idea on their story, and then see if it is liked, then tweak it BEFORE working on anything, as your idea leads to your scripts, and your story leads to your hack.

NarutoActor December 31st, 2009 9:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviation (Post 5437661)


You fail to see the point of the Scrapbox. Some people create IDEAS, right? And post them. THEY are to be rated. Some hack creators post their IDEAS before screenshots, to see how they could change it. SOME hackers want a pretty solid idea on their story, and then see if it is liked, then tweak it BEFORE working on anything, as your idea leads to your scripts, and your story leads to your hack.

what ever happened to hacking for just hacking. Do you seriously think you can just jump into the rom hacking scene and decide to make a hack? If your Idea is not good then just start over on a new clean rom. Your new knowledge on rom hacking will help you make your Idea into a reality. It's like wrighting an essay, you need to pre wright first. So your mom/peer/teacher can tell you if A) continue your idea and wright the essay or B) create a new idea.

interdpth December 31st, 2009 9:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviation (Post 5437661)


You fail to see the point of the Scrapbox. Some people create IDEAS, right? And post them. THEY are to be rated. Some hack creators post their IDEAS before screenshots, to see how they could change it. SOME hackers want a pretty solid idea on their story, and then see if it is liked, then tweak it BEFORE working on anything, as your idea leads to your scripts, and your story leads to your hack.

So shouldn't there just a be a THREAD for that instead of a whole subforum?

Makes more sense.

Banjora Marxvile December 31st, 2009 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by interdpth (Post 5437678)
So shouldn't there just a be a THREAD for that instead of a whole subforum?

Quote:

Originally Posted by interdpth (Post 5437678)

Makes more sense.

If there was a big thread, it would be harder to be specific with which hack we mean, it will get really hard to search in after a while, and would require re-posting to get our new ideas across. As well as searching for any criticism is WAY harder for that. And all the subforums are there for a reason. The scrapbox is made for criticism in early stages and ideas, as we cannot follow what we think is right without other people helping and guiding. That is where many leaders go wrong (Not just hack leaders...) Our ideas need improving before scripting begins, as if there is a flaw early on, and you've scripted it, you need to redo it. Better to finalise with a thread before starting, to make sure things are perfect for later on.

Threads for each specific hack in a scrapbox part is easier to me, as it is easier to search, easier to post updates, and criticism. Also, the threads allow it to be easily moved when required. Posting ideas in threads helps hackers, EVERY hack starts somewhere, and begins with many problems, mostly a newby owner. You used to be a newb, you overcame it. Stop complaining about something that will never ever change, as it is the law of nature. People start new, produce ideas, then they work on them, and improve them, and become better, slowly, but surely. All they need is time, motivation, and encouragement, similar to what you had when you started at a guess, and similar as the rest of you. I will probably not even change your opinions, but at least understand that even the newbiest of hackers can become something great if motivated, given time, and forced to improve.

558122_DG December 31st, 2009 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviation (Post 5437661)

You fail to see the point of the Scrapbox. Some people create IDEAS, right? And post them. THEY are to be rated. Some hack creators post their IDEAS before screenshots, to see how they could change it. SOME hackers want a pretty solid idea on their story, and then see if it is liked, then tweak it BEFORE working on anything, as your idea leads to your scripts, and your story leads to your hack.

that makes perfect sense :)
I made my first hack, course it failed miserably and i would rate it "crap", but from that hack I learned, and not saying my current hack is perfect, but it is a vast improovement. Rom hacking is a skill that almost anyone can learn. Even the greatest hacks in the rom hacking sections started from to bottom, and worked thierselves up, through many hardships and annoying spam. But the thing i'm trying to say is : The scrapbox should be kept :). Hacks that are crap, are only crap because of these reasons:

Inexperienced hacker
Lack in imagination
Lack in hacker's willingness to learn new skills.

Also if we were to look at the scrapbox and read the first 2 lines and say...yup yet another crappy hack and just leave....we arn't really helping now are we? That is why you MUST give constructive criticisim to ALL hacks, either crappy or great. This HELPS the hacker to move on and learn what needs to be changed or improved upon :) For example: my hack is in the scrapbox still...but it is not entirely crap (accorfing to the comments). But some hacks have like 2000 views and 5 comments...yea so many people looking and leaving and only 5 people who actually care...

PS. was that too long?

Matteron (96) January 1st, 2010 9:25 AM

is it just me or did interdpth get his wish and the scrap box is shutting down...

→goon January 1st, 2010 9:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matteron (96) (Post 5440777)
is it just me or did interdpth get his wish and the scrap box is shutting down...

It is shutting down, but the way Anthony said it, it sounded as if the moderators had been talking about this idea for a long time before interdpth even posted this thread.

NarutoActor January 1st, 2010 10:02 AM

Yay, Pulse one for the home team XD. This is pretty awesome can't wait for the scrapbox to be permanently scraped.

DreadWaffle January 1st, 2010 10:33 AM

The Speaker recognizes, DreadWaffle
I reserve my right to make a statement;
So noted

thank GOD for scrapbox dying, i see so much crap there
i have even made crap and poo there, and i am fine with that. But seriously, this is essentially what people have already said but scrapbox to me is a first update step, then when i decide to stop playin counter-strike and Cod6, i will eventually work on something, just not anything related to my hack, but make tiles or something 0.o
But if the scrapbox had the progressing hacks thing where it has to be accepted, it might be better. I doubt that would work.

I yield my time

RedBaron474 January 1st, 2010 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadWaffle (Post 5440923)
The Speaker recognizes, DreadWaffle
I reserve my right to make a statement;
So noted

thank GOD for scrapbox dying, i see so much crap there
i have even made crap and poo there, and i am fine with that. But seriously, this is essentially what people have already said but scrapbox to me is a first update step, then when i decide to stop playin counter-strike and Cod6, i will eventually work on something, just not anything related to my hack, but make tiles or something 0.o
But if the scrapbox had the progressing hacks thing where it has to be accepted, it might be better. I doubt that would work.

I yield my time

True, there may be some of the worst hacks ever there, but hacks have to start somewhere. You can't just expect a new-to-the-forums hacker to go straight to the Progressing Hacks. So I think that "scrapping" the Scrapbox is being somewhat unfair to new hackers.

R.I.P. Scrapbox!!

Banjora Marxvile January 1st, 2010 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBaron474 (Post 5441084)
True, there may be some of the worst hacks ever there, but hacks have to start somewhere. You can't just expect a new-to-the-forums hacker to go straight to the Progressing Hacks. So I think that "scrapping" the Scrapbox is being somewhat unfair to new hackers.

R.I.P. Scrapbox!!

Ergh... I agree with this. New hackers SHOULD be treated fairly. Not all of them act like the SPAMers or requesters. Getting rid of the scrapbox, whilst means that hackers must provide work and probably help them get more used to hacking and maturer, isn' really too fair on those hackers with great ideas, but need help, and criticism before making them.

But that was the theory that failed to the Scrapbox... That a hack is posted for ideas and criticism before being made, to secure the scripting of it all. That failed so... Get rid of it. If only we took that attitude more often... I guess eventually the Scrapbox may be back. Harsher rules like Mod Approval would probably be implemented if it returns.

.Seth January 1st, 2010 10:57 PM

Can't say I really liked the scrapbox, myself.

~Gary~ January 2nd, 2010 12:30 AM

I agree with this. New hackers SHOULD be treated fairly. Not all of them act like the SPAMers yep they really should be treated nicely

.Seth January 2nd, 2010 12:52 AM

They'll be treated nicely if they won't spam, request, ask for a scripter, etc.

Banjora Marxvile January 2nd, 2010 2:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .Seth (Post 5442968)
They'll be treated nicely if they won't spam, request, ask for a scripter, etc.



... Right, OK, most of them do, but not ALL of them. You cannot stereotype everything. Remember Cello? Yes, he was new, but wasn't like the vast majority, was he? He learnt Tile Inserting, and quickly fitted in. I say that we revise our attitude, and only treat the people we KNOW are SPAMers and Requesters like this, and all the new people as equals. Innocent until PROVEN guilty? At least when the Scrapbox is... Gone.

Seth, what if I put you in the same group as... Well, some of the arrogant ones who insult the new hackers who are expected to pick up where we leave off? You see? Cannot stereotype everything, as if we do, you will be likened to many arrogant people, which you will hate.

.Seth January 2nd, 2010 2:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviation (Post 5443048)

... Right, OK, most of them do, but not ALL of them. You cannot stereotype everything. Remember Cello? Yes, he was new, but wasn't like the vast majority, was he? He learnt Tile Inserting, and quickly fitted in. I say that we revise our attitude, and only treat the people we KNOW are SPAMers and Requesters like this, and all the new people as equals. Innocent until PROVEN guilty? At least when the Scrapbox is... Gone.

Seth, what if I put you in the same group as... Well, some of the arrogant ones who insult the new hackers who are expected to pick up where we leave off? You see? Cannot stereotype everything, as if we do, you will be likened to many arrogant people, which you will hate.

It's not generalization or stereotyping; it's more like natural selection. The strong move on; the weak die. If a new hacker is able to figure out that s/he can't request hacks, knows that asking a scripter will get him/her nowhere, and that they shouldn't spam, then they'll be just fine, and will actually get somewhere without being frowned upon.

There will always be some who commit the offense, improve, and then move on to greater heights. These are the ones that will be frowned upon, but understand they cannot do such things, and will be alright.

And, as always, there will be some who commit the offense, and do not learn from it. They will continue until banning/leaving for good.

I never said any specific members or types of members commit the offense. Of course, it's mostly newer hackers that do, because they're new.

And, I don't mind if you group me with people who do not like newer hackers; you'd be the stereotypical one, though. To be honest, I really don't like when new members cannot learn from their mistakes or even read the rules. I'm in no way saying all newer hackers are like that; some are, some aren't, of course. Plus, if someone is so lazy that they don't read up on what they can and cannot do here, then it says something about them. It says that they have little to no motivation to learn what's right and wrong in a hack, which in turn makes them fail, and results in people looking down upon them.

I agree that they should be treated fairly, but we're humans. We're not perfect; we make mistakes. We get angry. We have ideals, opinions, and feelings and beliefs. None of us will get along perfectly at every time in our lives. It'd be nice if we could, but like I said, we're not perfect. Believe me, I'm not trying to make an excuse for being harsh to new members or anything of the sort, but some of us just don't like them. I'm not going to say which side I'm on, because that would cause people to say I'm biased, and only want what's best for my side.

Banjora Marxvile January 2nd, 2010 2:54 AM

So... Actually, I am amazing myself when I say... Yeah, you're right. They should learn, and some do. Shame the vast majority don't... But you seemed to be generalising. You did seem to act like you thought all new hackers did it. But, I digress, as you didn't mean that, as I now understand.

It seems a shame. The ones who needed the scrapbox abused it the most, and now they, and every other potentially great hacker are paying the price...

Younegai January 2nd, 2010 2:56 AM

I am new at all this stuff, well actually, am new to almost everything with the exception of AdvanceMap. But may I ask what do you guys consider "poo" and not "poo"? The hack that I'm helping work on is not very far along at all, mapped up to the first gym, but I want to know what's original and not.... I mean, we're trying to make a completely new region and stuff, whilst trying to incorporate our storyline into the Pokemon timeline. I don't want to sound like "oh, this hack is truly unique" etc., because I know that there are amazing plenty of amazing hacks out there, as well as many not-so-great ones. I just wanted to know your guys's opinion on this stuff.

Pogeygothaxed January 2nd, 2010 6:37 AM

Wow, I was actually offended by some of the comments posted and the topic itself. I, for one, am a n00b. I started off in the scrap-box, posting my idea. It's still in the scrap-box, actually. Technically, I had enough screen shots to push it into Progressing Hacks, but that's no my point. I, tried entering Progressing Hacks at first, and my thread was rejected. So, I moved on to the scrap-box, and posted there. And almost every comment I got, was positive. I'd say it could have been one of the "diamonds" you speak of. But, you're right, a lot of the people new to ROM Hacking don't finish their first hacks. Have any of you ever finished yours? You hack, you learn, you give up...but then you come back. And when you do, you take everything you learned the last time, and put it into this time. Some of the ideas are everything you're asking for. Mine wasn't a recolor, or a remake, or anything like that. But if I didn't post it in the scrap-box, then I wouldn't have even gotten to where I did before I took a break. Because you do need support, or else you won't have motivation. ROM Hacking is hard. It does take a lot of work, and a lot of time, but no one is going to put in that effort for nothing. They need people to look at it, even if you do just read the first few lines and say "omg noob". You can't expect them to learn on their own. Just post a pity comment directing them to the tutorials section. And if they go there, work on it, then they might make something great. If they don't, then, you didn't lose anything...not every hacker is going to finish their hacks. I bet you that over half of the hacks in the Progressing Hacks will not be completed. Most don't get past a first beta...

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I couldn't read through this and not give my two cents.

Live Update King January 2nd, 2010 6:57 AM

Its been here for years so it be strange without Scrapbox :( Plus I haven't made my first hack yet

Cello January 2nd, 2010 7:53 AM

The lack of a variety of hacks can't really be helped.
People start hacking with one intention and then lose motivation when the truth peeks its head around the corner.

There is nothing to hacking other than to have a meaningless hobby to spend spare time on. I mean, hacking a ROM isn't going to get you a dream job or get your game mentioned on the front of a gaming magazine. You can't put "I successfully hacked a pokemon gameboy advanced ROM" on your resume when you're applying for an open position. And I know that's what the majority of you are thinking, because when you're laying on the couch thinking of your hack, you're thinking of it as finished and a pretty big deal.
There's no motivation in hacking other than to make modifications on an already existing game for a crowd of a couple hundred other hackers. It's just a fun time killer, but that lack of motive is what drives the ROM hackers to quit working on their hack.

As for the scrapbox;
It is a partial spam box, but I do think it's a necessity for a lot of our beggining hackers
There's no use in arguing for it to not be deleted, though, because it was a administrative decision, and we should know by now that if they want it done, it's going to be done regardless of what everyone else thinks.
No offense, but it's true, and a rather selfish decision at that just because apparently keeping the scrapbox in order is too hard to handle.

I think there will be a lesson learned in it all, though.
You close the scrapbox and the spam will just forwarded to another section of ROM hacking.
I thought that would have been clear, too.

Banjora Marxvile January 2nd, 2010 8:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cello (Post 5443422)
As for the scrapbox;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cello (Post 5443422)
It is a partial spam box, but I do think it's a necessity for a lot of our beggining hackers
There's no use in arguing for it to not be deleted, though, because it was a administrative decision, and we should know by now that if they want it done, it's going to be done regardless of what everyone else thinks.
No offense, but it's true, and a rather selfish decision at that just because apparently keeping the scrapbox in order is too hard to handle.

I think there will be a lesson learned in it all, though.
You close the scrapbox and the spam will just forwarded to another section of ROM hacking.
I thought that would have been clear, too.

May I just add 1 point to this. You moderators will get more SPAM for approvals in Progressing Hacks. SPAM that can get reported and closed when noticed, and ignored in the Scrapbox, will turn into SPAM threads waiting approval, like the other GOOD threads need approving, as well as threads that lack crucial things as well, that would fit in the Scrapbox, but the noob hackers don't read rules and post small threads for approval in Progressing Hacks. This will make you annoyed, most chances, due to a possible flood, and make you busier. That is my opinion though...

Your call, you made it, may be good for our visual site, but we will see what consequences this has, and then... Who knows?

Of course, this is all just me thinking. You clever people will probably have a solution for this. And if so, I wish you luck with your choice.

Perri Lightfoot January 2nd, 2010 11:03 AM

Not all hacks retell the Nintendo storyline; and even some that do demonstrate enough variety in mapping; scripting; spriting; music editing and/or other features that make them stand out and worth playing. For someone who considers story the most important aspect of a hack for her own work, I agree that it's a little annoying and tiresome to see so many repetitions of "become a Trainer, get eight Badges, whip the bum of an Evil Team, confront and catch a big Legendary, and become Champion." But is story why we really play the actual games made by Nintendo in the first place? Hardly (if there's someone who does play for the story, I've never met them) - it's for all the other features they stuff their games with, and if ROM hackers can come up with enough cleverness to circumvent their story retread, than I don't see much of an issue. Would seeing new stories be awesome? Oh, heck yes it would. But the world of ROM hacking is always going to have Nintendo plot retellings, and if that is the sort of story the thread creator has their heart set on telling, I think the best thing to do would be offer advice (when I review, I generally acknowledge generic storylines as being what they are - generic - but also emphasize that it's not the end of the world if other aspects of their hack have the potential to shine); mainly on the other elements that make up ROM hacking and encouraging originality and creativity in sidequests or mapping and other areas, rather than writing them off completely for not having a thrilling story.

RedBaron474 January 3rd, 2010 1:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviation (Post 5443464)

May I just add 1 point to this. You moderators will get more SPAM for approvals in Progressing Hacks. SPAM that can get reported and closed when noticed, and ignored in the Scrapbox, will turn into SPAM threads waiting approval, like the other GOOD threads need approving, as well as threads that lack crucial things as well, that would fit in the Scrapbox, but the noob hackers don't read rules and post small threads for approval in Progressing Hacks. This will make you annoyed, most chances, due to a possible flood, and make you busier. That is my opinion though...

Your call, you made it, may be good for our visual site, but we will see what consequences this has, and then... Who knows?

Of course, this is all just me thinking. You clever people will probably have a solution for this. And if so, I wish you luck with your choice.

Your completely right, Deviation. Moderators are going to get spammed like there's no tomorrow. I almost feel sorry for there Inbox. XD

NarutoActor January 3rd, 2010 2:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBaron474 (Post 5447874)
Your completely right, Deviation. Moderators are going to get spammed like there's no tomorrow. I almost feel sorry for there Inbox. XD

That's there job.(or more like responsibility since they don't get paid XD) If a newbie spams them too much then they will be banned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Younegai (Post 5443082)
I am new at all this stuff, well actually, am new to almost everything with the exception of AdvanceMap. But may I ask what do you guys consider "poo" and not "poo"? The hack that I'm helping work on is not very far along at all, mapped up to the first gym, but I want to know what's original and not.... I mean, we're trying to make a completely new region and stuff, whilst trying to incorporate our storyline into the Pokemon timeline. I don't want to sound like "oh, this hack is truly unique" etc., because I know that there are amazing plenty of amazing hacks out there, as well as many not-so-great ones. I just wanted to know your guys's opinion on this stuff.

Like all things in life its not how much you completed, but how nice the work that you have made. You can map the world, and if you mapping is crappy then it's worth NADA. So If you don't want poo in what ever you do make sure to learn about what you are doing to it's fullest, then try your hardest. After that take some suggestions fix it up, and post it for more comments. If this is done I can insure you, you will never make poo. So to speak,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviation (Post 5443079)
So... Actually, I am amazing myself when I say... Yeah, you're right. They should learn, and some do. Shame the vast majority don't... But you seemed to be generalising. You did seem to act like you thought all new hackers did it. But, I digress, as you didn't mean that, as I now understand.

It seems a shame. The ones who needed the scrapbox abused it the most, and now they, and every other potentially great hacker are paying the price...

No, if a so caled "Potentially hacker" Realy has potential, then they can read a dang tutorial and come up with four screen shots. If they can't then they don't have potentially. Hence no reason for the scrapbox.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokehacker100 (Post 5442936)
I agree with this. New hackers SHOULD be treated fairly. Not all of them act like the SPAMers yep they really should be treated nicely

You can still act like a newbie and not spam. Sating Chelsea lines like my hacks the best thing ever. Or putting together crummy tiles and expecting everybody to praise you. or even just starting a team and getting a member for every aspect of hacking, it's un realistic. I will treat you with respect if you are HUMBEL and try to read up on some aspects of hacking and invest some time. If you are interested, then show that you are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBaron474 (Post 5441084)
True, there may be some of the worst hacks ever there, but hacks have to start somewhere. You can't just expect a new-to-the-forums hacker to go straight to the Progressing Hacks. So I think that "scrapping" the Scrapbox is being somewhat unfair to new hackers.

R.I.P. Scrapbox!!

Yes you can, you only need one screen shot. It forces a hacker to make some sort of commitment.

0m3GA ARS3NAL January 4th, 2010 1:36 AM

Well, if people were to stop producing 'poo' and actually get things done then maybe there would bee less poo and more diamonds.
I think of it this way, there are 4 levels of hackers.

Newbies: They either just got started, or never improved from the time they had hacking. The hacks made by them are usually small, weak, pitiful. Simple edits, such as 'MAKING ALL POKEMON AVAILABLE IN POKEMON FR/LG OMFG LOLOL" and things like that usually come from them. We have all had this stage, if you never did, you are either lying, OR you went straight into...

Rom "Hackers": These are where a large portion of failed or abandoned hacks come from. The people here knew what they were doing, but either lost interest, or moved onto the next stage in this little list here. These people still reply on tools for a lot of things, but have actually TRIED to learn, unlike the last level, who look for simple ways out. These people probably read a few tutorials, and tried there hand at hacking.

REAL Rom Hackers: These are the people who produce those diamonds... or from time to time a really poorly cut opal. We get some decent hacks from them, and some great ones, look at Zel, LaZ, ME even, I fit into this group well. These people have done their homework, have patience enough to actually read a tutorial all the way through. We Hex Edit without fear, and usually end up doing some pretty neat stuff.

ASM and Above: These people have evolved from just Rom Editing, to Rom HACKING, not changing some hex with a tool, or repointing some data to expand it, but go so far as to change the game itself, to make it do things it was never made to do in the first place. A few examples? JPAN, ZodiacDaGreat, HackMew, interdpth, we all have come to know and love these names, and if you don't know who they are... I pity you. These people have done their homework, turned it in, got an A, and then some! You gotta have some real knowledge of computers, or at least an assembly compiler to be here, good luck!



My theory, if people were to skip the Newbie phase by actually learning to have some patience, read some tutorials, and try things HANDS ON, instead of asking for help 24/7/ then we would see less 'poo' and more' diamonds'.

(PS. Still waiting for another ASM tut... lol)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NarutoActor (Post 5448033)
That's there job.(or more like responsibility since they don't get paid XD) If a newbie spams them too much then they will be banned.

Like all things in life its not how much you completed, but how nice the work that you have made. You can map the world, and if you mapping is crappy then it's worth NADA. So If you don't want poo in what ever you do make sure to learn about what you are doing to it's fullest, then try your hardest. After that take some suggestions fix it up, and post it for more comments. If this is done I can insure you, you will never make poo. So to speak,

No, if a so caled "Potentially hacker" Realy has potential, then they can read a dang tutorial and come up with four screen shots. If they can't then they don't have potentially. Hence no reason for the scrapbox.

You can still act like a newbie and not spam. Sating Chelsea lines like my hacks the best thing ever. Or putting together crummy tiles and expecting everybody to praise you. or even just starting a team and getting a member for every aspect of hacking, it's un realistic. I will treat you with respect if you are HUMBEL and try to read up on some aspects of hacking and invest some time. If you are interested, then show that you are.

Yes you can, you only need one screen shot. It forces a hacker to make some sort of commitment.

Wise words indeed, yes, though I don't think the scrapbox should be scraped.
Some pretty decent hacks come out of there.
As well as the motivation factor, if a newbie posts a hack idea in the scrapbox, and it is a good idea, then good on him/her. If it isn't a good one, then that is where people can tell that person that.
A big problem in that stage is that most people don't tell people the truth, and butter it up, saying the hack would be a good idea, so when the newb continues, they end up abandoning the project, or people don't like it when it hits the "Progressing Hacks" section.
If people were to just be blunt and tell the newbie what they need to hear we'd get some more quality out of that poop.

NarutoActor January 4th, 2010 1:07 PM

That's the thing. People get mad at you when you are blunt, they even go so for as to call you rude! Not necessarily the creator, just a fan, or a bystander. More People need to know the definition of "Tough Love". Also If every one had the moral of self preservation, and believed something made with ones own hands in the end of the day is more valuable; then there would be no newbie class. ( I am not saying don't ask questions. But use questions as a LAST RESORT after you tried yourself, and did some homework. Anything worth having, is worth working on.)

remake January 4th, 2010 2:22 PM

NarutoActor, I don't see why people shouldn't be discouraged from asking questions. If a "newb" asks a question that's already been answered, a simple link to the previous thread would be suffiecient with instructions to PM someone knowledgeable for further questions. That's how I treat "newbs" on other forums.

Personally, especially when I don't know much about a certain subject (like what has been hacked for a game I haven't looked at yet, what can be modified with a tool, and what requires ASM checking), I'll ask questions just to know the scope of hackable features ahead of time so I can plan my approach better.

Mind you, I haven't checked the Scrapbox much myself but mostly that's because I believe people shouldn't post a "hack" unless they have the basics (storyline, item/Pokemon/trainer/world edits, tilesets) at least on schedule (as in all the major features can be reported ahead of time in the first Scrapbox post), assigned to various team members (if they have any). (Hence why I haven't posted mine yet.) A simple story with 2-3 screenshots shouldn't be posted.

NarutoActor January 4th, 2010 5:11 PM

no that's just plain lazy-ness. If you want your question answered look first. The title of the thread is SEARCH BEFORE ASKING.

~Teh Panda~ January 4th, 2010 7:25 PM

I agree full hearted with your post Interdpth.

Really this site attracts a lot of youngsters though as it is a pokemon site so we would come to expect a lot of those to be prepubescent people who got their new Pokemon Platinum Version wishing to explore into the world of trading pokemon and etc. They become somewhat active on those subsections and one day take a step out and realize the vast sections this site provides. I mean look at that German hacking site (whats it called??). The hacks there stump what the general hacker here is. Graphically and the scripts also correspond to this. Really the downfall is the user base.

........

Now that being said there is a light ahead, one which could bring happy days to all here. I know a lot of hackers whom have potential, also a lot here who still may be young still have potential and if they have the strive then I really would not doubt seeing some come out as top notch hackers. I really liked that "4 classes of hackers" that OA came up with. Really I too consider my self a level 3 of the four "REAL Rom Hacker". I have been here 2 and a half years and had my share of learning. As we can recall last summer the MASS rush of so called Newbies whom I personally think some greats could come out of. There really are some diamonds in the batch of coal and lets go harvest them!

........

Newbies who read this, GET busy LEARNING!!!!!!!

BAI :D

Sarcastic Prince January 5th, 2010 3:12 AM

I agree.
Why make Johto GBA Hacks
when there's HG/SS?

It's pointless.

Hacks like FR/LG remakes are
pretty pointless aswell.

Why make a remake of it when it's
already awesome and a
really good base?

interdpth January 5th, 2010 4:34 PM

Wow, this thread went to the deep end real fast. :(

Proof of what I said is in this thread.

~Teh Panda~ January 5th, 2010 4:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by interdpth (Post 5452852)
Wow, this thread went to the deep end real fast. :(

Proof of what I said is in this thread.

...What? Actually all I see is a nice little debate here with a few worth while posts. I don't see proof of anything really here. Yet maybe some hypocritical posts from hackers who are themselves "nublets". Even you yourself still have skills which hinder from what I have seen such as graphics maybe? (No not ASM graphics like the title. I mean mapping and that such.) Really no one is perfect in my opinion and no one EVER will be. We are all humans sharing this same basic structure. Anyone can make a mistake. Yet anyone ALSO can learn.

Now I did not mean to get off topic or anything but really I just had to point out your post was a bit blunt...

Full Metal January 5th, 2010 6:00 PM

IMO we need a "I'ma post my idea here and then let another person take over the entire hack and give up" section....
The scrapbox in IMO should have been for people who actually had screenshots, and updated it from time to time. I realize that making a hack is quite a long process, and should be reserved for doing over the summer, which is why i mostly do updates on my sinnoh patch/small work on my hack which is progressing mawr and mawr, plus i work on tools and a small (really, miniscule) research on the gba...for example, right nao i'm working on a pallette maker/editor etc that works with png files. I know its redundant with all the tools available nao, but i'd like to "consolidate the toolkits". And since most of the tools available are not open source (or in the case of hackmew...in a language i understand...as in !vb ), i have to do a bit of my own research.
So yea...i gotta wonder if half the people who had threads in the scrapbox are still here....

interdpth January 5th, 2010 7:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Teh Panda~ (Post 5452875)
...What? Actually all I see is a nice little debate here with a few worth while posts. I don't see proof of anything really here. Yet maybe some hypocritical posts from hackers who are themselves "nublets". Even you yourself still have skills which hinder from what I have seen such as graphics maybe? (No not ASM graphics like the title. I mean mapping and that such.) Really no one is perfect in my opinion and no one EVER will be. We are all humans sharing this same basic structure. Anyone can make a mistake. Yet anyone ALSO can learn.

Now I did not mean to get off topic or anything but really I just had to point out your post was a bit blunt...

I suck at graphics, music, dialogue, all sorts of stuff, I openly admit it :) Which is why I get friends to help me XD

~Teh Panda~ January 5th, 2010 8:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by interdpth (Post 5453311)
I suck at graphics, music, dialogue, all sorts of stuff, I openly admit it :) Which is why I get friends to help me XD

:P, I didn't mean to be harsh just was trying to pass a point. I do admit though asm far stumps the difficulty level of learning all those!


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