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-   -   Can we get a new variety of hacks, please? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=204273)

558122_DG December 31st, 2009 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviation (Post 5437661)

You fail to see the point of the Scrapbox. Some people create IDEAS, right? And post them. THEY are to be rated. Some hack creators post their IDEAS before screenshots, to see how they could change it. SOME hackers want a pretty solid idea on their story, and then see if it is liked, then tweak it BEFORE working on anything, as your idea leads to your scripts, and your story leads to your hack.

that makes perfect sense :)
I made my first hack, course it failed miserably and i would rate it "crap", but from that hack I learned, and not saying my current hack is perfect, but it is a vast improovement. Rom hacking is a skill that almost anyone can learn. Even the greatest hacks in the rom hacking sections started from to bottom, and worked thierselves up, through many hardships and annoying spam. But the thing i'm trying to say is : The scrapbox should be kept :). Hacks that are crap, are only crap because of these reasons:

Inexperienced hacker
Lack in imagination
Lack in hacker's willingness to learn new skills.

Also if we were to look at the scrapbox and read the first 2 lines and say...yup yet another crappy hack and just leave....we arn't really helping now are we? That is why you MUST give constructive criticisim to ALL hacks, either crappy or great. This HELPS the hacker to move on and learn what needs to be changed or improved upon :) For example: my hack is in the scrapbox still...but it is not entirely crap (accorfing to the comments). But some hacks have like 2000 views and 5 comments...yea so many people looking and leaving and only 5 people who actually care...

PS. was that too long?

Matteron (96) January 1st, 2010 9:25 AM

is it just me or did interdpth get his wish and the scrap box is shutting down...

→goon January 1st, 2010 9:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matteron (96) (Post 5440777)
is it just me or did interdpth get his wish and the scrap box is shutting down...

It is shutting down, but the way Anthony said it, it sounded as if the moderators had been talking about this idea for a long time before interdpth even posted this thread.

NarutoActor January 1st, 2010 10:02 AM

Yay, Pulse one for the home team XD. This is pretty awesome can't wait for the scrapbox to be permanently scraped.

DreadWaffle January 1st, 2010 10:33 AM

The Speaker recognizes, DreadWaffle
I reserve my right to make a statement;
So noted

thank GOD for scrapbox dying, i see so much crap there
i have even made crap and poo there, and i am fine with that. But seriously, this is essentially what people have already said but scrapbox to me is a first update step, then when i decide to stop playin counter-strike and Cod6, i will eventually work on something, just not anything related to my hack, but make tiles or something 0.o
But if the scrapbox had the progressing hacks thing where it has to be accepted, it might be better. I doubt that would work.

I yield my time

RedBaron474 January 1st, 2010 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadWaffle (Post 5440923)
The Speaker recognizes, DreadWaffle
I reserve my right to make a statement;
So noted

thank GOD for scrapbox dying, i see so much crap there
i have even made crap and poo there, and i am fine with that. But seriously, this is essentially what people have already said but scrapbox to me is a first update step, then when i decide to stop playin counter-strike and Cod6, i will eventually work on something, just not anything related to my hack, but make tiles or something 0.o
But if the scrapbox had the progressing hacks thing where it has to be accepted, it might be better. I doubt that would work.

I yield my time

True, there may be some of the worst hacks ever there, but hacks have to start somewhere. You can't just expect a new-to-the-forums hacker to go straight to the Progressing Hacks. So I think that "scrapping" the Scrapbox is being somewhat unfair to new hackers.

R.I.P. Scrapbox!!

Banjora Marxvile January 1st, 2010 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBaron474 (Post 5441084)
True, there may be some of the worst hacks ever there, but hacks have to start somewhere. You can't just expect a new-to-the-forums hacker to go straight to the Progressing Hacks. So I think that "scrapping" the Scrapbox is being somewhat unfair to new hackers.

R.I.P. Scrapbox!!

Ergh... I agree with this. New hackers SHOULD be treated fairly. Not all of them act like the SPAMers or requesters. Getting rid of the scrapbox, whilst means that hackers must provide work and probably help them get more used to hacking and maturer, isn' really too fair on those hackers with great ideas, but need help, and criticism before making them.

But that was the theory that failed to the Scrapbox... That a hack is posted for ideas and criticism before being made, to secure the scripting of it all. That failed so... Get rid of it. If only we took that attitude more often... I guess eventually the Scrapbox may be back. Harsher rules like Mod Approval would probably be implemented if it returns.

.Seth January 1st, 2010 10:57 PM

Can't say I really liked the scrapbox, myself.

~Gary~ January 2nd, 2010 12:30 AM

I agree with this. New hackers SHOULD be treated fairly. Not all of them act like the SPAMers yep they really should be treated nicely

.Seth January 2nd, 2010 12:52 AM

They'll be treated nicely if they won't spam, request, ask for a scripter, etc.

Banjora Marxvile January 2nd, 2010 2:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .Seth (Post 5442968)
They'll be treated nicely if they won't spam, request, ask for a scripter, etc.



... Right, OK, most of them do, but not ALL of them. You cannot stereotype everything. Remember Cello? Yes, he was new, but wasn't like the vast majority, was he? He learnt Tile Inserting, and quickly fitted in. I say that we revise our attitude, and only treat the people we KNOW are SPAMers and Requesters like this, and all the new people as equals. Innocent until PROVEN guilty? At least when the Scrapbox is... Gone.

Seth, what if I put you in the same group as... Well, some of the arrogant ones who insult the new hackers who are expected to pick up where we leave off? You see? Cannot stereotype everything, as if we do, you will be likened to many arrogant people, which you will hate.

.Seth January 2nd, 2010 2:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviation (Post 5443048)

... Right, OK, most of them do, but not ALL of them. You cannot stereotype everything. Remember Cello? Yes, he was new, but wasn't like the vast majority, was he? He learnt Tile Inserting, and quickly fitted in. I say that we revise our attitude, and only treat the people we KNOW are SPAMers and Requesters like this, and all the new people as equals. Innocent until PROVEN guilty? At least when the Scrapbox is... Gone.

Seth, what if I put you in the same group as... Well, some of the arrogant ones who insult the new hackers who are expected to pick up where we leave off? You see? Cannot stereotype everything, as if we do, you will be likened to many arrogant people, which you will hate.

It's not generalization or stereotyping; it's more like natural selection. The strong move on; the weak die. If a new hacker is able to figure out that s/he can't request hacks, knows that asking a scripter will get him/her nowhere, and that they shouldn't spam, then they'll be just fine, and will actually get somewhere without being frowned upon.

There will always be some who commit the offense, improve, and then move on to greater heights. These are the ones that will be frowned upon, but understand they cannot do such things, and will be alright.

And, as always, there will be some who commit the offense, and do not learn from it. They will continue until banning/leaving for good.

I never said any specific members or types of members commit the offense. Of course, it's mostly newer hackers that do, because they're new.

And, I don't mind if you group me with people who do not like newer hackers; you'd be the stereotypical one, though. To be honest, I really don't like when new members cannot learn from their mistakes or even read the rules. I'm in no way saying all newer hackers are like that; some are, some aren't, of course. Plus, if someone is so lazy that they don't read up on what they can and cannot do here, then it says something about them. It says that they have little to no motivation to learn what's right and wrong in a hack, which in turn makes them fail, and results in people looking down upon them.

I agree that they should be treated fairly, but we're humans. We're not perfect; we make mistakes. We get angry. We have ideals, opinions, and feelings and beliefs. None of us will get along perfectly at every time in our lives. It'd be nice if we could, but like I said, we're not perfect. Believe me, I'm not trying to make an excuse for being harsh to new members or anything of the sort, but some of us just don't like them. I'm not going to say which side I'm on, because that would cause people to say I'm biased, and only want what's best for my side.

Banjora Marxvile January 2nd, 2010 2:54 AM

So... Actually, I am amazing myself when I say... Yeah, you're right. They should learn, and some do. Shame the vast majority don't... But you seemed to be generalising. You did seem to act like you thought all new hackers did it. But, I digress, as you didn't mean that, as I now understand.

It seems a shame. The ones who needed the scrapbox abused it the most, and now they, and every other potentially great hacker are paying the price...

Younegai January 2nd, 2010 2:56 AM

I am new at all this stuff, well actually, am new to almost everything with the exception of AdvanceMap. But may I ask what do you guys consider "poo" and not "poo"? The hack that I'm helping work on is not very far along at all, mapped up to the first gym, but I want to know what's original and not.... I mean, we're trying to make a completely new region and stuff, whilst trying to incorporate our storyline into the Pokemon timeline. I don't want to sound like "oh, this hack is truly unique" etc., because I know that there are amazing plenty of amazing hacks out there, as well as many not-so-great ones. I just wanted to know your guys's opinion on this stuff.

Pogeygothaxed January 2nd, 2010 6:37 AM

Wow, I was actually offended by some of the comments posted and the topic itself. I, for one, am a n00b. I started off in the scrap-box, posting my idea. It's still in the scrap-box, actually. Technically, I had enough screen shots to push it into Progressing Hacks, but that's no my point. I, tried entering Progressing Hacks at first, and my thread was rejected. So, I moved on to the scrap-box, and posted there. And almost every comment I got, was positive. I'd say it could have been one of the "diamonds" you speak of. But, you're right, a lot of the people new to ROM Hacking don't finish their first hacks. Have any of you ever finished yours? You hack, you learn, you give up...but then you come back. And when you do, you take everything you learned the last time, and put it into this time. Some of the ideas are everything you're asking for. Mine wasn't a recolor, or a remake, or anything like that. But if I didn't post it in the scrap-box, then I wouldn't have even gotten to where I did before I took a break. Because you do need support, or else you won't have motivation. ROM Hacking is hard. It does take a lot of work, and a lot of time, but no one is going to put in that effort for nothing. They need people to look at it, even if you do just read the first few lines and say "omg noob". You can't expect them to learn on their own. Just post a pity comment directing them to the tutorials section. And if they go there, work on it, then they might make something great. If they don't, then, you didn't lose anything...not every hacker is going to finish their hacks. I bet you that over half of the hacks in the Progressing Hacks will not be completed. Most don't get past a first beta...

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I couldn't read through this and not give my two cents.

Live Update King January 2nd, 2010 6:57 AM

Its been here for years so it be strange without Scrapbox :( Plus I haven't made my first hack yet

Cello January 2nd, 2010 7:53 AM

The lack of a variety of hacks can't really be helped.
People start hacking with one intention and then lose motivation when the truth peeks its head around the corner.

There is nothing to hacking other than to have a meaningless hobby to spend spare time on. I mean, hacking a ROM isn't going to get you a dream job or get your game mentioned on the front of a gaming magazine. You can't put "I successfully hacked a pokemon gameboy advanced ROM" on your resume when you're applying for an open position. And I know that's what the majority of you are thinking, because when you're laying on the couch thinking of your hack, you're thinking of it as finished and a pretty big deal.
There's no motivation in hacking other than to make modifications on an already existing game for a crowd of a couple hundred other hackers. It's just a fun time killer, but that lack of motive is what drives the ROM hackers to quit working on their hack.

As for the scrapbox;
It is a partial spam box, but I do think it's a necessity for a lot of our beggining hackers
There's no use in arguing for it to not be deleted, though, because it was a administrative decision, and we should know by now that if they want it done, it's going to be done regardless of what everyone else thinks.
No offense, but it's true, and a rather selfish decision at that just because apparently keeping the scrapbox in order is too hard to handle.

I think there will be a lesson learned in it all, though.
You close the scrapbox and the spam will just forwarded to another section of ROM hacking.
I thought that would have been clear, too.

Banjora Marxvile January 2nd, 2010 8:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cello (Post 5443422)
As for the scrapbox;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cello (Post 5443422)
It is a partial spam box, but I do think it's a necessity for a lot of our beggining hackers
There's no use in arguing for it to not be deleted, though, because it was a administrative decision, and we should know by now that if they want it done, it's going to be done regardless of what everyone else thinks.
No offense, but it's true, and a rather selfish decision at that just because apparently keeping the scrapbox in order is too hard to handle.

I think there will be a lesson learned in it all, though.
You close the scrapbox and the spam will just forwarded to another section of ROM hacking.
I thought that would have been clear, too.

May I just add 1 point to this. You moderators will get more SPAM for approvals in Progressing Hacks. SPAM that can get reported and closed when noticed, and ignored in the Scrapbox, will turn into SPAM threads waiting approval, like the other GOOD threads need approving, as well as threads that lack crucial things as well, that would fit in the Scrapbox, but the noob hackers don't read rules and post small threads for approval in Progressing Hacks. This will make you annoyed, most chances, due to a possible flood, and make you busier. That is my opinion though...

Your call, you made it, may be good for our visual site, but we will see what consequences this has, and then... Who knows?

Of course, this is all just me thinking. You clever people will probably have a solution for this. And if so, I wish you luck with your choice.

Perri Lightfoot January 2nd, 2010 11:03 AM

Not all hacks retell the Nintendo storyline; and even some that do demonstrate enough variety in mapping; scripting; spriting; music editing and/or other features that make them stand out and worth playing. For someone who considers story the most important aspect of a hack for her own work, I agree that it's a little annoying and tiresome to see so many repetitions of "become a Trainer, get eight Badges, whip the bum of an Evil Team, confront and catch a big Legendary, and become Champion." But is story why we really play the actual games made by Nintendo in the first place? Hardly (if there's someone who does play for the story, I've never met them) - it's for all the other features they stuff their games with, and if ROM hackers can come up with enough cleverness to circumvent their story retread, than I don't see much of an issue. Would seeing new stories be awesome? Oh, heck yes it would. But the world of ROM hacking is always going to have Nintendo plot retellings, and if that is the sort of story the thread creator has their heart set on telling, I think the best thing to do would be offer advice (when I review, I generally acknowledge generic storylines as being what they are - generic - but also emphasize that it's not the end of the world if other aspects of their hack have the potential to shine); mainly on the other elements that make up ROM hacking and encouraging originality and creativity in sidequests or mapping and other areas, rather than writing them off completely for not having a thrilling story.

RedBaron474 January 3rd, 2010 1:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviation (Post 5443464)

May I just add 1 point to this. You moderators will get more SPAM for approvals in Progressing Hacks. SPAM that can get reported and closed when noticed, and ignored in the Scrapbox, will turn into SPAM threads waiting approval, like the other GOOD threads need approving, as well as threads that lack crucial things as well, that would fit in the Scrapbox, but the noob hackers don't read rules and post small threads for approval in Progressing Hacks. This will make you annoyed, most chances, due to a possible flood, and make you busier. That is my opinion though...

Your call, you made it, may be good for our visual site, but we will see what consequences this has, and then... Who knows?

Of course, this is all just me thinking. You clever people will probably have a solution for this. And if so, I wish you luck with your choice.

Your completely right, Deviation. Moderators are going to get spammed like there's no tomorrow. I almost feel sorry for there Inbox. XD

NarutoActor January 3rd, 2010 2:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBaron474 (Post 5447874)
Your completely right, Deviation. Moderators are going to get spammed like there's no tomorrow. I almost feel sorry for there Inbox. XD

That's there job.(or more like responsibility since they don't get paid XD) If a newbie spams them too much then they will be banned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Younegai (Post 5443082)
I am new at all this stuff, well actually, am new to almost everything with the exception of AdvanceMap. But may I ask what do you guys consider "poo" and not "poo"? The hack that I'm helping work on is not very far along at all, mapped up to the first gym, but I want to know what's original and not.... I mean, we're trying to make a completely new region and stuff, whilst trying to incorporate our storyline into the Pokemon timeline. I don't want to sound like "oh, this hack is truly unique" etc., because I know that there are amazing plenty of amazing hacks out there, as well as many not-so-great ones. I just wanted to know your guys's opinion on this stuff.

Like all things in life its not how much you completed, but how nice the work that you have made. You can map the world, and if you mapping is crappy then it's worth NADA. So If you don't want poo in what ever you do make sure to learn about what you are doing to it's fullest, then try your hardest. After that take some suggestions fix it up, and post it for more comments. If this is done I can insure you, you will never make poo. So to speak,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviation (Post 5443079)
So... Actually, I am amazing myself when I say... Yeah, you're right. They should learn, and some do. Shame the vast majority don't... But you seemed to be generalising. You did seem to act like you thought all new hackers did it. But, I digress, as you didn't mean that, as I now understand.

It seems a shame. The ones who needed the scrapbox abused it the most, and now they, and every other potentially great hacker are paying the price...

No, if a so caled "Potentially hacker" Realy has potential, then they can read a dang tutorial and come up with four screen shots. If they can't then they don't have potentially. Hence no reason for the scrapbox.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokehacker100 (Post 5442936)
I agree with this. New hackers SHOULD be treated fairly. Not all of them act like the SPAMers yep they really should be treated nicely

You can still act like a newbie and not spam. Sating Chelsea lines like my hacks the best thing ever. Or putting together crummy tiles and expecting everybody to praise you. or even just starting a team and getting a member for every aspect of hacking, it's un realistic. I will treat you with respect if you are HUMBEL and try to read up on some aspects of hacking and invest some time. If you are interested, then show that you are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedBaron474 (Post 5441084)
True, there may be some of the worst hacks ever there, but hacks have to start somewhere. You can't just expect a new-to-the-forums hacker to go straight to the Progressing Hacks. So I think that "scrapping" the Scrapbox is being somewhat unfair to new hackers.

R.I.P. Scrapbox!!

Yes you can, you only need one screen shot. It forces a hacker to make some sort of commitment.

0m3GA ARS3NAL January 4th, 2010 1:36 AM

Well, if people were to stop producing 'poo' and actually get things done then maybe there would bee less poo and more diamonds.
I think of it this way, there are 4 levels of hackers.

Newbies: They either just got started, or never improved from the time they had hacking. The hacks made by them are usually small, weak, pitiful. Simple edits, such as 'MAKING ALL POKEMON AVAILABLE IN POKEMON FR/LG OMFG LOLOL" and things like that usually come from them. We have all had this stage, if you never did, you are either lying, OR you went straight into...

Rom "Hackers": These are where a large portion of failed or abandoned hacks come from. The people here knew what they were doing, but either lost interest, or moved onto the next stage in this little list here. These people still reply on tools for a lot of things, but have actually TRIED to learn, unlike the last level, who look for simple ways out. These people probably read a few tutorials, and tried there hand at hacking.

REAL Rom Hackers: These are the people who produce those diamonds... or from time to time a really poorly cut opal. We get some decent hacks from them, and some great ones, look at Zel, LaZ, ME even, I fit into this group well. These people have done their homework, have patience enough to actually read a tutorial all the way through. We Hex Edit without fear, and usually end up doing some pretty neat stuff.

ASM and Above: These people have evolved from just Rom Editing, to Rom HACKING, not changing some hex with a tool, or repointing some data to expand it, but go so far as to change the game itself, to make it do things it was never made to do in the first place. A few examples? JPAN, ZodiacDaGreat, HackMew, interdpth, we all have come to know and love these names, and if you don't know who they are... I pity you. These people have done their homework, turned it in, got an A, and then some! You gotta have some real knowledge of computers, or at least an assembly compiler to be here, good luck!



My theory, if people were to skip the Newbie phase by actually learning to have some patience, read some tutorials, and try things HANDS ON, instead of asking for help 24/7/ then we would see less 'poo' and more' diamonds'.

(PS. Still waiting for another ASM tut... lol)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NarutoActor (Post 5448033)
That's there job.(or more like responsibility since they don't get paid XD) If a newbie spams them too much then they will be banned.

Like all things in life its not how much you completed, but how nice the work that you have made. You can map the world, and if you mapping is crappy then it's worth NADA. So If you don't want poo in what ever you do make sure to learn about what you are doing to it's fullest, then try your hardest. After that take some suggestions fix it up, and post it for more comments. If this is done I can insure you, you will never make poo. So to speak,

No, if a so caled "Potentially hacker" Realy has potential, then they can read a dang tutorial and come up with four screen shots. If they can't then they don't have potentially. Hence no reason for the scrapbox.

You can still act like a newbie and not spam. Sating Chelsea lines like my hacks the best thing ever. Or putting together crummy tiles and expecting everybody to praise you. or even just starting a team and getting a member for every aspect of hacking, it's un realistic. I will treat you with respect if you are HUMBEL and try to read up on some aspects of hacking and invest some time. If you are interested, then show that you are.

Yes you can, you only need one screen shot. It forces a hacker to make some sort of commitment.

Wise words indeed, yes, though I don't think the scrapbox should be scraped.
Some pretty decent hacks come out of there.
As well as the motivation factor, if a newbie posts a hack idea in the scrapbox, and it is a good idea, then good on him/her. If it isn't a good one, then that is where people can tell that person that.
A big problem in that stage is that most people don't tell people the truth, and butter it up, saying the hack would be a good idea, so when the newb continues, they end up abandoning the project, or people don't like it when it hits the "Progressing Hacks" section.
If people were to just be blunt and tell the newbie what they need to hear we'd get some more quality out of that poop.

NarutoActor January 4th, 2010 1:07 PM

That's the thing. People get mad at you when you are blunt, they even go so for as to call you rude! Not necessarily the creator, just a fan, or a bystander. More People need to know the definition of "Tough Love". Also If every one had the moral of self preservation, and believed something made with ones own hands in the end of the day is more valuable; then there would be no newbie class. ( I am not saying don't ask questions. But use questions as a LAST RESORT after you tried yourself, and did some homework. Anything worth having, is worth working on.)

remake January 4th, 2010 2:22 PM

NarutoActor, I don't see why people shouldn't be discouraged from asking questions. If a "newb" asks a question that's already been answered, a simple link to the previous thread would be suffiecient with instructions to PM someone knowledgeable for further questions. That's how I treat "newbs" on other forums.

Personally, especially when I don't know much about a certain subject (like what has been hacked for a game I haven't looked at yet, what can be modified with a tool, and what requires ASM checking), I'll ask questions just to know the scope of hackable features ahead of time so I can plan my approach better.

Mind you, I haven't checked the Scrapbox much myself but mostly that's because I believe people shouldn't post a "hack" unless they have the basics (storyline, item/Pokemon/trainer/world edits, tilesets) at least on schedule (as in all the major features can be reported ahead of time in the first Scrapbox post), assigned to various team members (if they have any). (Hence why I haven't posted mine yet.) A simple story with 2-3 screenshots shouldn't be posted.

NarutoActor January 4th, 2010 5:11 PM

no that's just plain lazy-ness. If you want your question answered look first. The title of the thread is SEARCH BEFORE ASKING.


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