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-   -   LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transexual) anyone? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=208854)

Feign February 20th, 2010 11:06 PM

I plan to tell my mom pretty soon :3

My dad will be another story though... (he believes people chose to be gay).

Objection! February 20th, 2010 11:12 PM

Well, you do choose. Just like you choose to be straight.

I don't believe in that "love at first sight" stuff. I can understand attraction or lust, but when it all comes down to it, you're making a choice. Those gay jerks at my school pressure kids to change sexuality's all the time, but they don't because they choose to be straight. Just like the bullies choose to be gay.

It may be a matter of opinion on my part, but you're brain can't see one person and process:

"OMG, I LOVE THAT PERSON, I'M TOTALLY INTO _____'S NOW!"

It doesn't work that way, though I do sympathize with you.

DonRoyale February 20th, 2010 11:16 PM

Yeah, I'm gay. I've had it as one of the points of my signature for a pretty long time now, actually. XD

However, one thing I really hate having to argue is why we shouldn't be afraid of our sexuality and just come out and say it. If you've never had to deal with the weight of keeping such a dark secret from the people you (arguably) care the most about, please don't just blatantly post "you should all just say it"; it's ignorant and, IMO, very rude.

People think it's just a matter of saying it and being done with it. If it were that easy, I would have told my parents right when I figured it out.

At 14, I thought I was bisexual simply because I couldn't accept myself as being homosexual. Now how could anyone expect me to tell my parents, my rather masculine friends, and my overtly "cool" acquaintances, when I'm an insecure teenager in high school, unsure of how anyone would react to it, and having to bear the added weight of homophobic slurs on top of the ridicule I had to put up with? I wasn't ready to tell myself I was gay, much less my parents.

I mean, both know now, but it took me 3 years to tell myself I was gay, and another two to tell my mom; and almost another year after that to tell my dad. A lot of it is insecurity; some people don't understand what's not the norm.

With others, it's simply a matter of the environment you're in. My family is extremely liberal, so thank God both of my parents accept me (pardon the pun), but some families are religious to the point where, if you're upfront about it, you're treated like an animal. It's not the easiest thing to say with how society still views it in general. You might be seeing a lot more widespread acceptance of it, but until we get marriage legalized in the US, it'll be pretty clear on how society as a whole stands on it. As sad a reality as it is, a lot of fear of coming out has to do with society's view on it as a whole, whether you, your friends, or your parents are the ones who share society's view of things.

tl;dr: it's not as easy as you'd like to believe it is. blatantly saying "come out already" isn't gonna make us come out any faster; we'll say it when we're damn well ready, kthnx.

Harmonie February 20th, 2010 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Objection! (Post 5569735)
Well, you do choose. Just like you choose to be straight.

No... You do not choose who you are sexually attracted to.

Why do people even doubt this? I know that some people don't understand what sexuality really means and they think that being able to tell if somebody is attractive or not means that they are attracted to them, but no, we DO NOT choose what sex we are attracted to in that way.

Jesus oƒ Suburbia February 20th, 2010 11:21 PM

Why do I get the feeling that 'Objection' was made for this thread? >_>
I'm bisexual, I was born like that.
It's just your guardians who make you believe that everyone is straight and ****.
That's my opinion.
Don't kill me for having an opinion. >:

DonRoyale February 20th, 2010 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Objection! (Post 5569735)
Well, you do choose. Just like you choose to be straight.

When will people realize that this is not something you can control? You don't wake up saying to yourself "I'm going to be homosexual today." You are or you aren't. If you've seen someone change, it's likely because they're insecure about their own identity and are trying to find themselves by seeing what they like and what they don't. It's not a matter of choice; it's a matter of finding where you feel you're most comfortable.

I mean, we all love to pick the side of the spectrum where we have to endure being looked at as prissy little queens who take it up the behind, hairstyle every famous artist imaginable, and sound like a fat tramp from the 60's. (I'm sure the female side can paint a more colorful picture than my idea of "butch biker lesbian" as the ridiculous stereotype.)

Rebelling against society's norms, eff yeah!

...Seeing a problem here? I sure am.

Objection! February 20th, 2010 11:38 PM

Quote:

No... You do not choose who you are sexually attracted to.
I never said you do. I said you don't automatically choose which gender you would like to most... erm...

Anyway, it's a matter of subconciously deciding what type of person you would most like to be with, and then following up on that.

You aren't born as anything. When you're born you could be the next Abraham Linchon or the second coming of Adolf Hitler. You are influenced and you make decisions.

Quote:

When will people realize that this is not something you can control? You don't wake up saying to yourself "I'm going to be homosexual today." You are or you aren't. If you've seen someone change, it's likely because they're insecure about their own identity and are trying to find themselves by seeing what they like and what they don't. It's not a matter of choice; it's a matter of finding where you feel you're most comfortable.

I mean, we all love to pick the side of the spectrum where we have to endure being looked at as prissy little queens who take it up the behind, hairstyle every famous artist imaginable, and sound like a fat tramp from the 60's. (I'm sure the female side can paint a more colorful picture than my idea of "butch biker lesbian" as the ridiculous stereotype.)

Rebelling against society's norms, eff yeah!
Yes, you can make your own decisions. You are not born gay or straight, you are not born predetermined to take it up the behind or chase poon. It's all about decisisons.

The way you live your life can influence you, and you can't just run around screaming "I can't control it! Don't look at me, I'm just fate's ragdoll to toss around as she pleases!"

You need to stand up for yourself and say "Yes, I did choose to be gay. I did choose to live this way, and I won't let any of you idiots put me down!"

I'm not saying it''s easy, but you can't use that excuse every damn time.

Quote:

Why do I get the feeling that 'Objection' was made for this thread? >_>
I wasn't made for anything, I've merely become interested with this thread.

Quote:

I'm bisexual, I was born like that.
Bullcrap. Read the above.

Shiny February 20th, 2010 11:41 PM

Scientists have proven that gay people are born like that, and it's not any factor of their choosing.

Objection! February 20th, 2010 11:43 PM

I don't believe you. Prove it.

And even if they did, how would they explain Bisexuals?

helix February 20th, 2010 11:45 PM

If I must plaster a title on myself, well, I'm pansexual.
In my opinion, attraction is something that occurs, unrestricted by biological gender or otherwise. It shouldn't be suppressed or denied, and it just happens quite naturally- your tastes align with the person and attraction happens.
I choose to keep my preferences to myself because any sort of same-gender attraction is rejected in the country I live in, and can even be persecuted. I don't want to be judged or stuck with labels merely because I am not exclusive to feeling attraction towards one gender.

DonRoyale February 20th, 2010 11:45 PM

Why would anyone consent to decide to be a label of society and take all the ridicule and stereotypes that come with that?

Like, I didn't choose this. I chose to be bisexual, it didn't work for me because I just never thought about women that way...

By your logic, you can choose to be gay, though. Ask your parents, your friends; "What if I was gay?", and tell me the answers you get.

And try forcing yourself to be attracted to the same sex.

It doesn't work. Period.

Shiny February 20th, 2010 11:47 PM

You prove me wrong, prove to me that people make their own decision to be gay.

Objection! February 20th, 2010 11:52 PM

Quote:

Why would anyone consent to decide to be a label of society and take all the ridicule and stereotypes that come with that?

Like, I didn't choose this. I chose to be bisexual, it didn't work for me because I just never thought about women that way...

By your logic, you can choose to be gay, though. Ask your parents, your friends; "What if I was gay?", and tell me the answers you get.

And try forcing yourself to be attracted to the same sex.

It doesn't work. Period.
You're not listening. If I wished to be attracted to men, I could be, but I don't want to be, so I'm not.

I am fully aware of what their reactions would be, don't play the victim card with me.

You would consent to being a label of society so that you could move to erase those labels. You're saying it's wrong, so by your logic Martin Luthur King Jr. was wrong.

You would stand up to the jack***'s that decided to make fun of you because you were different. You would set an example, saying that you were strong, and you weren't less than they were.

I'm not urging you to, because I realize how difficult that would be, but I'd rather you do that before saying "I can't control it, I was born that way."

Because that is untrue.

entrancer: Heh, I should go first to prove you wrong even though you were the one who brought up the topic first. Well, if you'll read any of my previous posts on the subject, you'll see my reasoning.

We aren't robots prepackaged to be certain things. We make our own choices and we have to accept them.

Tyrantrum February 20th, 2010 11:54 PM

I'm straight. I don't care if someone is gay or not, and I was friends with them. Wouldn't bother me one bit.

Luck February 20th, 2010 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Objection! (Post 5569772)
I don't believe you. Prove it.

And even if they did, how would they explain Bisexuals?

When a woman has babies, her body treats the baby as a virus of some sort and produces estrogen. It becomes easier for the female body to do so after having more male babies. Almost every science institute agrees that this happens mostly through the role of genes.
Well, that and I don't think anyone wakes up in the morning and says 'I think I'll just switch sexual preferences.' I have never met anyone who thinks like that.

Objection! February 21st, 2010 12:02 AM

The amount of estrogen or testosterom in ones body does not effect anybody's sexual preferences. I know, I asked it in Health class awhile ago. XD Case and point: I have 3 older brothers and not one of us is gay.

I did not say you change at the drop of the hat. I said gradually through changes a decisions on your part, you become straight, or gay, or bisexual.

Don: No, I did not mean my unfortunate pairing of words that way. I meant in general. Like a rapist must live with his sins, a burglar must deal with his guilt, and a lawyer must live with the fact that he is ruining people's lives.

I didn't mean it that way. People are saying you're born gay or straight, which in my opinion, isn't true. I was implying that it wasn't predestined for me to be straight, and if during my life I had felt attracted to men, I could have turned out gay. Nothing is set in stone.

I have gone through it fyi, my previous school was non too sure of which "team I played for", and my social life suffered for it. But I didn't let them put me down, and it eventually blew over because they knew I didn't care.

It's helping to erase it because back when being black was a crime, Martin Luther King, Jr. embraced the colour of his skin, and it inspired other people. I'm not saying you need to do something on such a large scale, Ii'm actually not saying you have to do anything, but I'm saying that's what I see a strong-willed homosexual doing.

This is all a matter of opinion, you must remember that. That, and the fact that I'm not calling you out, I'm perticipating in this thread, not trying to make anybody feel bad.

Ausaudriel: Dang, it does? Well, I apologize for that.

DonRoyale February 21st, 2010 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Objection! (Post 5569786)
You're not listening. If I wished to be attracted to men, I could be, but I don't want to be, so I'm not.

You're the one not listening. I said in an earlier post that I wished I was attracted to women back in my teenage years. I tried it. It didn't work. Regardless of how much I tried to like women, I always felt awkward and uncomfortable around them.

And why exactly don't you want to be gay today, Mr. Objection!? Is it because you don't feel you're attracted to men? Guess what, I'm not attracted to women. But I can at least say I've made the attempt. Until you do, your point remains invalid to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Objection! (Post 5569786)
I am fully aware of what their reactions would be, don't play the victim card with me.

Then do it. It becomes a whole different game when you're the victim, regardless of the degree to which you're said victim. Everyone doesn't treat you the same, accepting or not; you're suddenly "the gay guy", "the gay one", etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Objection! (Post 5569786)
You would consent to being a label of society so that you could move to erase those labels. You're saying it's wrong, so by your logic Martin Luthur King Jr. was wrong.

Consenting to a label to erase it? Pardon? How is that doing anything to erase it? You're doing society a favor by painting a target on your forehead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Objection! (Post 5569786)
You would stand up to the jack***'s that decided to make fun of you because you were different. You would set an example, saying that you were strong, and you weren't less than they were.

Some people don't feel the need to be a martyr for people who are too insecure to outright say it themselves. If you want something that'll help push people out of the closet, and be a trailblazer, how about this: Get the world in general to stop being so damn ignorant about it. Maybe that oughta help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Objection! (Post 5569786)
I'm not urging you to, because I realize how difficult that would be, but I'd rather you do that before saying "I can't control it, I was born that way."

Because that is untrue.

OK, as of tomorrow, I'm going to stop thinking about how attracted I am to guys. I'm going to become straight, and be attracted to women.

Because clearly, that works with everybody.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Objection! (Post 5569786)
We aren't robots prepackaged to be certain things. We make our own choices and we have to accept them.

You have worded this extremely poorly. You say that as if there are consequences for "choosing to be gay", which is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard due to how utterly ignorant it is. If you have simply said the wrong thing, that's fine, but as is, you have made an extremely poor choice of words. And if you mean it, I downright pity your ignorance. :|

DonRoyale February 21st, 2010 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ausaudriel (Post 5569860)
There are a surprisingly large number of gay people around here... it's actually funny sometimes. XD;

Part of me wants to ironically blame this on the fact that society at large thinks Pokemon's "gay". XD

RE: That argument:
*shrug* k =D

Feign February 21st, 2010 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ausaudriel (Post 5569860)
Gay and been through the birth vs. choice debate with far bigger fish than Objection, etc., so I'm not going to get into it on PokeCommunity of all places. Looks trollish anyway.

There are a surprisingly large number of gay people around here... it's actually funny sometimes. XD;

It does seem a bit trollish indeed :3

It is funny, indeed.

I'm still laughing at the fact that this thread was made on the same day I came out (or at least am starting to).

Serene Grace February 21st, 2010 12:56 AM

I'm straight. I've just never found myself attracted to men and even having sex with them seems slightly repulsive. But then, meh, that's just me. I respect gays because they get so much hassle for who they are. Sometimes I think it's the same as racial discrimination except maybe there are no groups out there to kill them. Most of my friends are gay, and I don't judge them - they are people not to be judged by their sexuality but by who they are.

Haza February 21st, 2010 1:02 AM

Seriously, the majority of Pokemon forums are run by us... and soon, the WORLD! Naw Im kidding... what r re talkin about???

Feign February 21st, 2010 1:03 AM

I think the funny thing is, as it is also a misconception, is that all gays like gay sex. I don't find that enitrely true... It's just like a relationship between a guy and a girl, it doesn't mean that the guy just wants to see her naked or something, and have sex with her (at least with serious relationships).

While sex does come, for the most part, part and parcel with being in a relationship, it isn't necessarily the end all thing... Even then, I know I'd rather go slow... Find a cute guy and go from there... Kind of like how a guy might go with a girl.

Of course there can be the whole talk of alternatives, especially for girls, but that's something else.

That's how I feel anyway, I don't feel overtly sexually charged or whatever.

Reina February 21st, 2010 1:57 AM

Just figured I'd jump in here after reading up on it.

I'm straight and have plenty of bi / gay friends and don't discriminate against them for it. Most of them are completely like my straight friends; of course, their personality not being decided by their sexuality. Except for one... I know the post above me by Feign brought up that they don't all like gay sex, but there was a short (about a week?) point in my life where I got angry with the idea of homosexuals in general because of this one fellow.

He's still my friend now, even though he gets on my nerves quite often. Every time we have a conversation, he somehow brings up gay sex. Not sex in general, just gay sex. It disturbs me, actually. I tell him "Just because I'm straight doesn't mean I bring up straight sex all the time". He gets angry with people for making fun of him for being gay, and I tried to explain that the fact that he always says things such as "buttsex!" and "gaysex!" randomly doesn't exactly help his case.

..of course, like I said before, I realized that this was just him in particular and of course have nothing against LGBT.

magikarptrainer February 21st, 2010 3:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entrancer. (Post 5569579)
You can't say, "it never happens." Yet when I prove you wrong, say it's the exception.

Well, the point is people are struck by lightning. But that doesn't mean we live in fear of it happening. Because it is so incredibly unlikely.


Having said that. If I was gay, I would probably be very controlled about what I displayed. Not out of fear of physical harm, but just petty discrimination.

Quote:

Originally Posted by entrancer. (Post 5569769)
Scientists have proven that gay people are born like that, and it's not any factor of their choosing.


You certainly don't choose to be gay. At the same time, you are not born gay, and there is no science that proves that. When you are born, you are not even sexually developed. You have at minimum 10 years of biological, social and psychological influences before sexuality starts to develop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feign (Post 5569880)
I think the funny thing is, as it is also a misconception, is that all gays like gay sex. I don't find that enitrely true... It's just like a relationship between a guy and a girl, it doesn't mean that the guy just wants to see her naked or something, and have sex with her (at least with serious relationships).

If we're talking about an adult relationship. Then sexuality is a huge part, regardless, gay,straight,whatever

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reina (Post 5569930)

He's still my friend now, even though he gets on my nerves quite often. Every time we have a conversation, he somehow brings up gay sex. Not sex in general, just gay sex. It disturbs me, actually. I tell him "Just because I'm straight doesn't mean I bring up straight sex all the time". He gets angry with people for making fun of him for being gay, and I tried to explain that the fact that he always says things such as "buttsex!" and "gaysex!" randomly doesn't exactly help his case.

Yeah, I totally understand. It's a really awkward, uncomfortable situation. It's nothing to do with him being gay, just a bit socially slow. We use different topics of conversation depending who we are talking to. It's because we know what our friends/peers/etc are interested in or what's appropriate to talk about with them. Some just DON'T get it.

The Cynic February 21st, 2010 4:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envy II (Post 5569714)
Oh yeah, being gay is a sin. Just like a million other things that so many Christians conveniently "forget about".

Christianity is hilarious when it comes to homosexuality. Christian homophobes always quote Leviticus 18, completely overlooking the fact that Leviticus 11 prohibits the eating of pigs. Last time I checked the majority of Christians will happily eat bacon.

I'm pretty sure I'm straight. I thought I was bisexual during my teenage years before concluding that men were actually not that great.

My motto in life: "Try everything once. Except incest and folk dancing."

I heavilly dislike the using of "gay" as an insult. People use it as a sort of swear word you can get away with.

In the UK, and in most of Europe, homosexuality is tolerated 100% and we have actually got to the point where the country adores gay men as style icons and lesbian women as comedians. I'm not sure if this is right or not, but at least it shows we are tolerant, if slightly stereotyping. The US is wildly different though. I don't think that some states are liberal enough to tolerate it at all *frowns at Alabama*.

I have plenty of LGB friends and I treat them as I would my straight friends. I do hate giving people labels though. We shouldn't see people as "gay" or "straight" or "curious" but by the person they are.


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