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-   -   CONGRATS! US HEALTHCARE REFORM PASSES! (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=211774)

Aurafire March 21st, 2010 9:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi-chan (Post 5642980)
BEFORE YOU SAY SOMETHING COMPLETELY STUPID

Healthcare Bill Summary



Too late.

I'm glad y'all are happy, but...Instead of taking the opportunity to blindly bash Republicans and complain about how we still don't have universal health care, maybe you should actually read the link Chibi posted and try to understand what this bill means in the long run. Because trust me, it's not just *poof* 30 million Americans are now covered with no drawbacks. We'll be paying for this for ages. One trillion dollars is a huge amount of money, and sooner or later, the middle class is going to be feeling the heat in the form of those wonderful things called taxes. Ironic how a bill that's supposed to support the middle/lower classes may actually come back to bite them in the arse in the long run, no?

Please, please, before I die from some these horribly idealistic and naive posts. Try to understand the bill before passing judgement. I don't doubt that many of you will still be 100% in favor of the reform, but at least know that it's not as perfect as it may seem =/

Chibi-chan March 21st, 2010 9:58 PM

Put the link in that quote so people can see it on the second page too D:<

Feign March 21st, 2010 10:03 PM

I wonder what would happen if the government suddenly rellocated a good majority of military spending to health care and educate... oh shi...

The only thing I don't like about Canada's system is how fragile it is. That is to say, all our good doctors were moving south where the money is. No offense to you guys and all, but I hope also with this bill some Canadian doctors will stay in Canada, and benefit our ailing system as well, that is to say, if they feel they need to stay, or are concerned about salary, though it doesn't sound like that would change... XD

Maybe we can make it as a symbiotic relationship? XD

FreakyLocz14 March 21st, 2010 10:09 PM

Not to be too mean, but Canada has itself to blame for its doctors leaving. If it didn't have a socialized system, they wouldn't be leaving.

Socialized medicine gives insurance companies less incentive to invest in newer technologies. They would go for what is cheaper so they can conform to the government's strict standards. Which includes paying doctors less. Why do you think most jobs are going overseas?

That being said I don't think this bill will help Canadians significantly. American doctors will probably still be paid much more on average than their Canadian counterparts.

Feign March 21st, 2010 10:18 PM

Yeah, what I thought pretty much.

I remember my old sociology prof talking about public medical care, and how it could be fixed and such. Though that was a while back :3 (I should find the notes sometime).

In the end though, it seems the insurance companies just want a profit...

FreakyLocz14 March 21st, 2010 10:38 PM

College professors tend to be liberals so I wouldn't trust one without filtering for bias.

And of course insurance companies want to make a profit. Why does anyone start a business? To make money off of it.
The profit motive is what puts the US at the top of the world in the quality of healthcare. The best care and the best technologies go to people who can afford it. In countries with socialized systems everyone gets the same mediocre standard of care.

Feign March 21st, 2010 10:54 PM

I'm glad I have that care to have the care nonetheless ;)

Lol... Profs tending to be Liberal... ROFL!!! *ahem* If you must know, this specific prof was VERY analytical, and thus would judge things on a per basis...

FreakyLocz14 March 21st, 2010 11:03 PM

Well you live in Canada.

I'm speaking about American colleges mostly. Your professor could also be different than the majority. I wouldn't know I've never met them.

Feign March 21st, 2010 11:09 PM

I'm just not sure "Liberal" is the right term...

I mean a Conservative could still be open-minded, just not adhere to another belief...

It makes it sound as though they are the enemy... (I'd call myself a moderate).

And to keep this on topic, I'd assume schooling to become a nurse or doctor in the US, would just be as intense as it is here? Or rather, is it just as expensive?

bmah March 21st, 2010 11:18 PM

I read the summary, and of course the bill isn't going to be perfect (really, did you think it could've?). As mentioned, the bill could be modified later anyhow if stuff doesn't work out the way it should. People won't like the individual mandate, and it's probably not an effective way to mandate health care anyhow, but premiums probably would skyrocket to make up revenue loss from gov't regulations without the mandate.
In any case, I can't complain that the bill would supposedly reduce deficit by $143 billion.

I've been wondering this though:

Americans pay taxes for city maintenance, garbage pickup, and other things related to property, right [correct me on the specifics if otherwise]? Then why do many consider taxes that contribute to health care as "stealing" their money when the access to health care is, I argue, just as fundamental as other services they currently pay for? Basically, why isn't health care treated on the same fundamental level as other services? Really, there are other things that Americans must mandatorily pay for, but I don't hear complaints there.

@Feign: yeah, I'm pretty sure schooling in general, except for perhaps community colleges, would be way more expensive there than in Canada.

FreakyLocz14 March 21st, 2010 11:18 PM

Just as expensive? It's most likely more expensive. The good news is nursing can be done at community colleges if you are satisfied with just having that level of work completed. Grant nursing programs are competitive to be admitted to, a lot of the time even at community colleges.

The economic crisis is forcing schools K-12 as well as colleges and universities to make cuts and up fees. Now is the time to look into a private school (one that doesn't rely on public funds).

Yusshin March 22nd, 2010 4:26 AM

I like the Canadian system; other than dental care not being covered, I know I'm looked after whether it be waiting in emergency for a condition to be analyzed (depending on the time of day, waiting times in my city are 5min-2h, based on severity) and I don't need to worry about costly bills for conception, medication, etc. My sister would normally pay 800$ a month for her diabetic medication, but after insurance and the Health Card, it drops to 10$. If I have to pay taxes over the course of my life to be sure that if something goes wrong with me or my family, I'm going to be okay, then by all means, I'm for it. I may be even paying for someone else's operation with my tax money; but at least it goes to a good place, rather than primarily into the army.

As for doctors leaving, we do have a shortage of doctors, but in Ontario and Quebec, they're trying to fix it by offering bribes to doctors to stay in the community, such as free housing and transport.

Europe has 2x the population of the United States, so I don't see why it can't suddenly take on the European / Canadian Health Care system. It's not biased towards the rich; it gives fair opportunity to all. I personally hate the American system's "Only the rich are treated" mentality. It's inhuman.

Bianca Paragon March 22nd, 2010 6:36 AM

Ding! America has reached First World Nation!
Gratz!

FreakyLocz14 March 22nd, 2010 6:38 AM

If First World Nation means socialized medicine then sorry, we haven't got there yet.

Mika March 22nd, 2010 7:16 AM

Actually, this bill really doesn't do all that much in the current time.

They're giving it a few years; 2014 is when most of this gets enacted to the best of my understanding.

If you'll notice, Obama comes up for re-election in 2012 so he could very well not even be in office when/if the thing's actually enacted. There are already states putting up defensive laws against this damn thing and it's just turning into a horrific little pile of poo all around. If it makes it to 2014, great. I don't really see that happening. What loopholes aren't the insurance companies going to find? What tricks are hospitals going to come up with to still make the biggest potential profit?

I'm torn between trying to move abroad to a place with healthcare and leaving absolutely everything I've ever known behind me within the span of a year. I don't really have much of a choice because I can't afford private premiums. Why? To echo Klippy's comment, because I have pre-existing conditions that make me a financial loss to the health insurance company. I'm disabled because of said pre-existing conditions and have no income because of it. I looked into Medicaid and SSI, I'd be the type of person the system's made for, right? Wrong. My dad makes six digits a year and I don't qualify for Medicaid because of it. I can barely walk at the moment and the doctors have no clue why. Pretty scary considering that starting next January, I'm off my parent's nice somewhat affordable insurance and its somewhat reasonable copays. If they find something, ontop of trying to move, I have to try and handle it if it's life threatening or just try and learn to live with the whole not walking thing.

We, my family that is, just recently finished paying over 5 grand in medical bills. That's after insurance copays. That inflation of prices isn't going to come down anytime soon. Honestly, I think it's going to get worse because these doctor and hospital people are going to want to keep their nice little profits as nice little doctors with big houses do and they're going to charge out the ass for things they're already charging out the ass for. 30 dollars for two pills of medication. 3,989 for a simple MRI. 900 a night for an ER visit. 1800 for a bed, 600 a night for the room the bed's in. 60 dollars for a shot of painkillers/antibiotics. 20 dollars for a hospital gown. He had 12 pills a day. 4 shots a day. He was in the hospital for 6 days. You do the math. [Note: These are ACTUAL PRICES just so you know from when my dad was in hospital last year. Same hospital, in 96 when my sister was hospitalized in the ICU for an entire month? We had a 1 grand total copay and the hospital took off 300 dollars because of special circumstances. They don't do that anymore.]

Now I think people are being ridiculous with comments I've already seen places about how the goverment is going to control who lives and who dies [I've even seen comments about euthanasia of the elderly/sickly children because apparently that's what they do in Canada/Europe/Australia] and ridiculous little claims like that when the stupid bill hasn't even taken full effect yet. Imho, if we cared more about our fellow man than our own well-being and health ["I want my premium healthcare when I'm sick. If Billy can't afford it, it's Billy's fault for not managing his money properly" and/or "Billy's not my problem, I only care about my family and my problems"] then we wouldn't be so firmly against this I don't think. At least to my knowledge, the rest of the world thinks we're nuts for not already having this.

Something to remember tho, healthcare at its core in the US of A is nothing more than a highly profitable buisness. It's not about helping people, it's not about curing cancer, it's not about making sick people better. It's about doing all those things previously mentioned and making as much money as you possibly can while you're doing them. Canadian doctors moved to the US to get more money. People come from India to the US to make money. Becoming a Doctor is the most expensive school track in University in the US.

And I get that it's going to raise taxes; I'm upper middle class and this is going to hurt us. However, with the health conditions that I've had recently as well as stuff that's sprung up with my parents my ridiculously right winged Republican God-Fearing Stay-at-Home sometimes redneck mother has decided that this healthcare thing is worth the stress if it takes the strain off of us financially and makes it so I don't have to wait 6months to see a specialist about my heart murmur to afford the copay or you know, drop out of college for a semester or two to cover ridiculous medical bills. >:l

What's really ironic to me is that the people who seem to be complaining about this healthcare business the most are the lucky americans who don't have a slew of health problems. They can pay the bare minimum nice little premiums and see the doctor maybe once or twice a year no big deal. In a sense, they're getting 'screwed' by this because now they have to pay more. Poor you.

I understand that America is about the American dream and the pursuit of personal happiness but the more you ignore the problems of the people in your country, the worse things get. You don't take care of your people, the rest of the world looks down on you. Not that America isn't already looked down on for a slew of other things One last comment before I shut up, to those of you who think people are going to abuse the system? Somebody always abuses the system no matter what country, no matter what system it is. You can't avoid it you just have to deal with it. Take a great look at welfare in the US if you don't believe me. :>

Melody March 22nd, 2010 8:58 AM

I'll open with a quote by our favorite OC Moderator.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chibi-chan (Post 5642980)
BEFORE YOU SAY SOMETHING COMPLETELY STUPID


Healthcare Bill Summary
Not like any of you will actually read up on what you argue about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feign (Post 5642960)
It's government health care like us. ;)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

Lovely how all republicans were against it. Clearly they would only like to see the rich survive.

Lololol No der. Remember the BS that Dubya pulled in office? You bet your shiney hiney he was oiled! (Meaning he wasn't always defending the interests of the nation, but looking out for BIG OIL COMPANIES)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince_of_Light (Post 5643017)
And this monstrosity was just the perfect way to go about reform, wasn't it? Please.

AND DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO SAY REPUBLICANS ARE OPPOSED TO REFORM.

IT'S JUST THIS PIECE OF CRAP BILL WE'RE OPPOSED TO.


Bull. Friking. ****. Seriously, what did even more damage than Dubya managed to do was the largely REPUBLICAN congress that let not only Dubya's BS by, but allowed even more to pass by them while they acted dumb so the rich could get richer and they could keep their fat-asses in office! Yeah, I blame the economic collapse of 2008 squarely on Dubya, his administration, and the congress that had just closed it's session in november of that year!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klippy (Post 5643050)
My uncle was just in the hospital and he was denied coverage by three insurance companies because he is unhealthy and had a preexisting condition and the companies would have had to pay for his bills, which were costly. So now he has to teach himself to walk again, since insurance wouldn't pay for his physical therapy for six weeks. If "ObamaCare" (The American taxpayers) wants to pay for his bills, then thanks. Appreciate it. I'm sure he does too, since it'll help him walk again, but he's certainly not complaining and he's doing well on his own. I know I'd love to help him, but my family can barely afford our own bills as it is, since we aren't rich like those evil Republicans!

My favorite part of the bill: "Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services"

And I'll say one thing to the people claiming how Republicans are evil and hate the poor. Some of your own, fellow Democrats voted no for the bill, so...why aren't you calling them evil and poor haters? I just find it funny that it's only the Republicans that are evil and not these Democrats, along with the other 55% of America that opposed the bill. But whatever. Ignore the facts that more than just Republicans opposed the bill and continue to say only they are evil. That's easier than accepting that 55% of people just didn't like it. :)

I honestly feel for you. I've seen this BS happen to so many families even right here where I live, in the big middle of the Permian Basin. x3

My heart goes out to you as well Mika.

Honestly, I am happy that this bill has squeaked through. While it's not exactly the cure for the issue it will bring some relief to honest americans who NEED the healthcare.

As for the fine, I'm not worried about that provision, you have until 2014 to be insured or be in the poorhouse so that you aren't required to buy it. x3 Hopefully the next bill that is coming up will pass, which essentially makes some changes to the laws enacted by this bill and improves it. I don't exactly know what all is in the addendum bill, but hopefully it will cut out some of the pork that some of the Republicans probably demanded that be inserted into it so they would vote for it, and improve some of the more controversial portions of the bill which just passed. x3

Netto Azure March 22nd, 2010 10:22 AM

I <3 it.
 
CHIBI CAN I MAKE MY OLD THREAD SO THE OTHERS CAN SEE THIS SUMMARY?


Original thread: http://pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=197741


Quote:

Originally Posted by pokejungle (Post 5642901)
Yay <3

This wasn't about Democrat vs Republican, this was about the health of American citizens. Anyone else ecstatic?

BAWW. I WANTED TO REVIVE MY OLD DEBATE THREAD. ;o;

:'(

Anyways my usual crap has to go in here someplace. :P

Economist Tsung-Mei Cheng three Universal Laws of Health Care Systems:

1. No matter how good the health care in a particular country, people will complain about it.
2. No matter how much money is spent on health care, the doctors and hospitals will argue it is not enough.
3. The last reform always failed.

Currently the a stool in the Domestic policy of the Obama Administration, my favorite topic: Health Care reform, is being publicly debated throughout the United States.

The Current Status of United States Healthcare Reform
(March 22, 2010)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46091000/jpg/_46091242_obama_ap226b.jpg
Healthcare reform has been the top domestic agenda for US President Barack Obama for a majority of his first year


Introduction
“To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans and reduce the growth in health care spending, and for other purposes.”

Summary:
The summary of the bill includes the following elements, among others:

The central changes made by the legislation include:
  • prohibiting health insurers from refusing coverage based on patients' medical histories
  • prohibiting health insurers from charging different rates based on patients' medical histories or gender
  • repeal of insurance companies' exemption from anti-trust laws
  • establishing minimum standards for qualified health benefit plans
  • requiring most employers to provide coverage for their workers or pay a surtax on the worker's wages up to 8%
  • restrictions on abortion coverage in any insurance plans for which federal funds are used
  • an expansion of Medicaid to include more low-income Americans by increasing Medicaid eligibility limits to 150% of the Federal Poverty Level and by covering adults without dependents so as long as either or any segment doesn't fall under the narrow exceptions outlined by various clauses throughout the proposal.
  • a subsidy to low- and middle-income Americans to help buy insurance
  • a central health insurance exchange where the public can compare policies and rates
  • a government-run insurance plan (public option); according to some analyses, the plan would be prohibited from covering abortions
  • requiring most Americans to carry or obtain qualifying health insurance coverage or possibly face a surtax for non-compliance.
  • a 5.4% surtax on individuals whose adjusted gross income exceeds $500,000 ($1 million for married couples filing joint returns)
  • a 2.5% excise tax on medical devices
  • reductions in projected spending on Medicare of $400 billion over a ten-year period
  • inclusion of language originally proposed in the Tax Equity for Domestic Partner and Health Plan Beneficiaries Act
  • inclusion of language originally proposed in the Indian Health Care Improvement Act Amendments of 2009.

Status:

US House of Representatives: Affordable Health Care for America Act (H.R. 3962, introduced October 29, 2009, passed on November 7, 2009)

The United States House of Representatives has passed it's version of the bill by a vote of 220 Yay - 215 Nay.

The bill was supported by 219 Democrats and one Republican - Joseph Cao from New Orleans. Opposed were 176 Republicans and 39 Democrats.

Now the Senate bill has been deemed the basis for the Health-care reform effort. The bill has passed 219 Yay - 212 Nay

With all Republicans opposing the bill along with 41 Democrats.

US House of Representatives
(1st Vote): Bill Passed (220 Yay - 215 Nay)
(2nd Vote):Bill Passed (219 Yay - 212 Nay)

Tri Committee:
House Energy and Commerce: Bill revised/Passed (31 Yes - 28 No)
House Ways and Means : Bill revised/Passed (23 Yes – 18 No)
House Education and Labor:Bill revised/Passed (26 Yes - 22 No)

US Senate: The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (H.R. 3590) is a bill passed by the United States Senate at 7:05am on December 24, 2009.

On December 21, the Senate voted to end the Republican filibuster and vote on their version of health care reform, by 60 to 40.

On Christmas Eve of 2009, the Senate arrived at 7am Eastern Time, the first time the Senate had met on Christmas Eve since 1895, and passed the bill to be compromised by both houses of Congress by a vote of 60-39, with only Jim Bunning (R-KY) failing to vote.

As the basis for the reform effort, amendments proposed by the House will be bundled under a Reconciliation bill that is subject to a simple majority vote. With Vice President Biden casting the deciding tie breaker vote.

US Senate (1st Vote): Bill Passed (60 Yay - 39 Nay)

Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee: Bill revised/Passed (13 Yes – 10 No)
Senate Finance Committee: Bill revised/Passed (14 Yes - 9 No)

No Country for Sick Men: To judge the content of a nation's character, look no further than its health-care system.




[QUOTE]United States - Private system
Private sector funded, with more than half from private sources. Private health insurance available through employer, government or private schemes.

15.3% of population (45.7 million people) do not have health insurance.

Federal government is largest healthcare insurer - involved in two main schemes, Medicaid and Medicare, each covering about 13% of population.

Medicaid - joint funded federal-state programme for certain low income and needy groups - eg children, disabled.

Medicare - for people 65 years old and above and some younger disabled people and those with permanent kidney failure undergoing dialysis or transplant.

Most doctors are in private practice and paid through combination of charges, discounted fees paid by private health plans, public programmes, and direct patient fees.

In-patient care is provided in public and private hospitals. Hospitals are paid through a combination of charges, per admission, and capitation.

UK - Universal, tax-funded system

Public sector funded by taxation and some national insurance contributions.

About 11% have private health insurance. Private GP services very small.
Healthcare free at point of delivery but charges for prescription drugs (except in Wales), ophthalmic services and dental services unless exempt.
Exemptions include children, elderly, and unemployed. About 85% of prescriptions are exempt.
Most walk-in care provided by GP practices but also some walk-in clinics and 24-hour NHS telephone helpline. Free ambulance service and access to accident and emergency. In patient care through GP referral and follow contractual arrangements between health authorities, Primary Care Trusts and the hospital.
Hospitals are semi-autonomous self-governing public trusts.

France - Social insurance system
All legal residents covered by public health insurance funded by compulsory social health insurance contributions from employers and employees with no option to opt out.
Most people have extra private insurance to cover areas that are not eligible for reimbursement by the public health insurance system and many make out of pocket payments to see a doctor.

Patients pay doctor's bills and are reimbursed by sickness insurance funds.
Government regulates contribution rates paid to sickness funds, sets global budgets and salaries for public hospitals.
In-patient care is provided in public and private hospitals (not-for-profit and for-profit). Doctors in public hospitals are salaried whilst those in private hospitals are paid on a fee-for-service basis. Some public hospital doctors are allowed to treat private patients in the hospital. A percentage of the private fee is payable to the hospital.
Most out-patient care is delivered by doctors, dentists and medical auxiliaries working in their own practices.

Singapore - Dual system
Dual system funded by private and public sectors. Public sector provides 80% of hospital care 20% primary care.

Financed by combination of taxes, employee medical benefits, compulsory savings in the form of Medisave, insurance and out-of-pocket payments.
Patients expected to pay part of their medical expenses and to pay more for higher level of service. Government subsidises basic healthcare.

Public sector health services cater for lower income groups who cannot afford private sector charges. In private hospitals and outpatient clinics, patients pay the amount charged by the hospitals and doctors on a fee-for-service basis.

PokemonLeagueChamp March 22nd, 2010 11:04 AM

Liberals: Congratulations. You just successfully helped bring about economic armageddon.

Our taxes will go up almost immediately. Most small businesses will be incapable of paying for their employees' health care, so between fines and layoffs, they'll all disappear, and we'll have high unemployment, to levels we haven't seen since the 1930's. Prices on everything will rise, forcing a rise in minimum wage, driving inflation and the dollar's further weakening.
All this, for what? Porkbarrel spending? Giving "free" healthcare to illegal immigrants(it's not free for the taxpayers the money will come from)?
What should really scare EVERYONE is that Nancy Pelosi said Congress had to pass the bill in order to find out what's in it. Not to mention that from Canada, to much of Europe, and even the state of Massachusetts, socialized health care DOESN'T WORK. It ruins economies. And just imagine what the government will do next. I'm finding it more and more plausible that they will shred the Constitution and make the excuse that it is "no longer relevant to the current time".
I say vote out anyone who voted yes to the bill. If that doesn't work, we may have to revolt once again. I am no anarachist, but I will fight to the death anyone who dares to try and take our rights, if I have to.

.Gamer March 22nd, 2010 11:11 AM

HEY GUYS, AM I DOING THIS RIGHT? :/

Sarcasm aside, I have mixed feelings about this bill. I mean, yeah, healthcare is important, but I feel like the timing of the bill is awful. Its going to add like a BAGILLION dollars to the defecit and we already have like ~10% unemployment so imo its kinda a step backwards. I mean, healthcare is important and all, but apparently lots of doctors are gonna just up and quit/leave the country (hint: thats bad). Also I feel like the congress should be more focused on trying to give people jobs. Whatevs tho, it passed, I still hate all politicians and think we should nuke Washington D.C. and every other capital city in the world and start over. It'll probably be overturned I think.


EDIT: Also, for anyone who thinks there is such a thing as "free" healtcare remember this annogram: TINSTAFL. There Is No Such Thing As a Free Lunch.

PokemonLeagueChamp March 22nd, 2010 11:17 AM

I know someone in the medical field. Their unbiased opinion? They hated the bill.

And around 60% of Americans are against this. Tea Parties(I even went to one)and protests, the people's wishes=IGNORED. The government is saying, "Your rights? **** your rights, we're doing what we want."

Aureol March 22nd, 2010 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .Gamer (Post 5643955)
Sarcasm aside, I have mixed feelings about this bill. I mean, yeah, healthcare is important, but I feel like the timing of the bill is awful. Its going to add like a BAGILLION dollars to the defecit and we already have like ~10% unemployment so imo its kinda a step backwards. I mean, healthcare is important and all, but apparently lots of doctors are gonna just up and quit/leave the country (hint: thats bad). Also I feel like the congress should be more focused on trying to give people jobs. Whatevs tho, it passed, I still hate all politicians and think we should nuke Washington D.C. and every other capital city in the world and start over. It'll probably be overturned I think.


EDIT: Also, for anyone who thinks there is such a thing as "free" healtcare remember this annogram: TINSTAFL. There Is No Such Thing As a Free Lunch.

I'm in the same boat as you. I felt we needed change bad, but I think this is a step in the wrong direction. I'm no genius, so if you asked me, I wouldn't come up with a solution, but this is wrong.

Besides, there's a lot of opposition to this bill; I don't know why Pres. Obama is trying to establish it now, where it will most likely fail, instead of in a few years, and he could just work harder in gathering support. Not that I like him, but this just seems like the smarter decision if I did agree with him.

Prince_of_Light March 22nd, 2010 11:46 AM

I've got a couple of non-taxpayer funded solutions, if anyone wants to have a look.

First, we have to regulate these frivolous lawsuits better. (TORT REFORM!) It's not necessarily the lawsuits themselves, it's that the medical practices have been driven into paranoia with their frequency. Tons and tons of money is wasted on excess testing and procedures when medical practices do defensive medicine. And who can blame them? lawsuits can put them out of business completely, everyone knows know people sue for all they can get, even if they don't need it. It's the selfishness in human nature.

Secondly, the real greedy scoundrels here are the colleges. THEY are the ones who need reform. Tuition is RIDICULOUSLY high for ANY profession, not to mention becoming a doctor takes a good 12 years of school. I saw a dateline documentary a couple years back that investigated all the frivolous spending colleges undertook while their professors weren't teaching and they hiked tuition to insane levels for those of us in the middle class who don't get many grants. The doctors have to spend the first ten years of their income on nothing but loans. If they want to actually be able to make ends meet with their business, however, they will inevitably pass the college cost onto the insurance companies by raising their fees, which forces the insurance companies to raise their premiums on us.

All because some idiot headmaster has to gold-clad their campus and install Olympic-sized swimming pools. ugh.

But the best part about fixing it with these? It doesn't cost the taxpayers ONE DIME, but it saves us tuition money AND helps the insurance companies lower premiums. And the only people who lose out are the lawyers and the stuck-up rich professors and school boards. You crying for them? I'm not.

And please don't accuse me of not wanting to have health care reform. Everyone wants that. To say that Republicans and conservatives don't want health care reform is utterly ignorant, unfounded, and arrogant. Don't say I don't want reform when I'm laying out solutions right here for you.

If there was one thing that really angered me about this whole process, it was that I, as a conservative, have been personally attacked and accused of not wanting reform and wanting people to die.

Anti March 22nd, 2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokemonleaguechamp (Post 5643971)
I know someone in the medical field. Their unbiased opinion? They hated the bill.

And around 60% of Americans are against this. Tea Parties(I even went to one)and protests, the people's wishes=IGNORED. The government is saying, "Your rights? **** your rights, we're doing what we want."

The people collectively elected the people who passed the bill. Just because a lot of people oppose the bill does not mean that the government is in any way ignoring or taking away your rights. I wasn't aware that ignoring a bunch of people carrying signs asking to impeach the president or having him with a Hitler mustache was somehow bad.

As for your previous post about taking up arms, that's absolutely absurd. No one is trying to take away your rights. Pardon me if I'm wring, but the Firth Amendment seems to be perfectly intact to me. But seriously, revolt? Because the other party passed a bill you don't like? Seriously? Just because Congressmen aren't doing what you want them to do doesn't mean that they're violating your rights. They are not obligated to go with what the people want. The way we "revolt" is by voting the people who pass what you don't like out of office.

Mattysaurus March 22nd, 2010 11:51 AM

Quote:

Coverage:

* Would expand coverage to 32 million Americans who are currently uninsured.
What do they mean by this?
After reading everyone's posts, I'm starting to not believe I will get the helpful insurance I need. I haven't had health insurance my whole life. I thought this would really help my family. But seeing what you guys are putting out on the table, I'm starting to doubt this. I really don't know what to think about it anymore. I'm gonna keep up with this thread so I can learn more about it. :/

PokemonLeagueChamp March 22nd, 2010 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti (Post 5644065)
The people collectively elected the people who passed the bill. Just because a lot of people oppose the bill does not mean that the government is in any way ignoring or taking away your rights. I wasn't aware that ignoring a bunch of people carrying signs asking to impeach the president or having him with a Hitler mustache was somehow bad.

As for your previous post about taking up arms, that's absolutely absurd. No one is trying to take away your rights. Pardon me if I'm wring, but the Firth Amendment seems to be perfectly intact to me. But seriously, revolt? Because the other party passed a bill you don't like? Seriously? Just because Congressmen aren't doing what you want them to do doesn't mean that they're violating your rights. They are not obligated to go with what the people want. The way we "revolt" is by voting the people who pass what you don't like out of office.

Bold=just plain wrong.


Representative government=they do what the majority of the people want.
And the government doesn't have the right to force what they've rammed through onto the people.
As for the guy with the Hitler mustache on Obama, that was a radical, and was on the opposite side of the spectrum of the liberals who just proved they will do whatever they want.


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