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Thunder Dome!
Hey guys!
So yeah, I don't know if this falls under a question.. but I did some searching because I was curious about what happened to the T-Dome way back when.. and discovered it was closed because people could not conduct themselves properly and it became a flame war. (Yep, I did my homework.) I know back then there was a different restriction on it, but I was wondering if I could give a suggestion about bringing it back perhaps for 18+ or even 19+ Or even adding screening some member posts or something or having a sort of.. post-prerequisite to joining. (Member has had to have at least 200 posts) or something like that. Anyways, I wanted to post a blog earlier about a mature subject (Obesity, and about something I read called the Fat Acceptance Movement where which some people have turned into a cult that endorses feeding females into extreme obesity.) But I decided not to because I felt that the general PC community is too young. I was just wondering if it would be ok to suggest bringing back the T-Dome for a place that people can discuss world events like this, only this time bringing it back with a better age restriction and better rules enforced in the area. (Like allowing certain subjects not allowed to be posted.) Or maybe if anyone has other suggestions on how to make it work, give out some comments. What would you allow? And what does the staff think about this? |
I'm new here, what exactly is the thunderdome? Also: 100 posts is A LOT for those of us who do not spam. Can we get that lowered maybe? It'll probably take me MONTHS to get 100 posts.
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Ahh, in that case I'm 100% in support of it existing, but making it 18+ and ACTUALLY HAVING 18+ DISCUSSIONS without punishment. I'm not saying porn and whatnot (There is millions of porn websites) but textual and even visual 18+ content.
However, the post count thing I'm kinda against. An example is that there is a forum that I've been a member of for over six years and I have around 1,000 posts. See how long it'd take me to get 100? If people are making accounts just to post there, let them. I don't see it being much of an issue because of the fact that they could just go get their smut or mature conversation elsewhere if it's really that important to them. DO have a post count limit, but make it more like 25, not 100. |
Yea... lets bring back one of the worst things to be on PC... But this time with better rules, and more "mature" people on it.
Here are the old T-Dome rules.... Quote:
Yea we can only let people with 100 posts in. Yea we can have more stronger rules. Yea we can only let people above such age in. Yea we can have all of this and still the forum will turn into yet another hell hole. I'd love a debate forum, but this is what you have on PC... "Person 1: I'm right, and here's why. Person 2: Nope, I'm right and here's why. Person 1: Your points are stupid, I know I'm right." Oh, it's not only a debate forum you say... it's a forum for "mature" members to talk about things. Yea... sort of like how the members are mature enough to handle rep.... yea we brought that back and look how well that went over. And don't say "Well, rep has nothing to do with this". The members weren't mature enough to handle rep, so they're not mature enough to take something like the T-Dome. I'll go as far as to say the members back then were more mature then the members we have now. And on top of that, being 18 doesn't make you mature. You can't be 17, horse around, throw jokes, cut up, and so on. And then when you turn 18 some force of nature makes you "mature". I've seen 13 year olds more mature then people above the age of 18 (right here on PC). So the whole "Well, it'll be different now... people only 18 and above will be let in" doesn't fly with me. And people can change their age in their profile, no different then back in the days of the first T-Dome. So we're going to have them fill out a paper to show that they're mature? I'm pretty sure we did that in the old T-Dome as well (at least at first). Bottom line is... PC won't be having another T-Dome type forum (or any "mature" type forum... just to make it clear), I was Staff back then, I (and many many others) looked after the forum, I supported the idea when it first came up, and now I see it as one part of PC's dark history. If you can't talk about it in OC (because OC is the off topic forum) then you have no place talking about it on PC. |
↑ That. Down to a tee. I don't think even older members can go into the Thunder Dome without starting a flame war. Age has next to nothing to do with maturity really. =/ |
I don't think I was here long enough to see the Thunder Dome (sort of glad I wasn't here that long, though) But by what I hear, I know it'd probably be a pretty big risk to bring back.
However there is one thing that is for sure. Demographics have changed since so many 6 or 5 years ago. Parents are probably more aware of where younger children go on the internet. Yes, we are still having people who are about 10 years old join. But age is just a number in reality. As Arcanine said, some people in their younger teens tend to be more mature than some "adults". Although, the recent failure of the reputation system does prove the immature demographics in PC at the moment. So because of this, and age possibly being fake (Like in my case :P) I propose that not an age filter, but a manual filter be imposed if the T-Dome can be brought up again. As in, invite only, or some other way. Yeah, it may be a hassle, but I wouldn't think it'd be harder than managing the ROM Hacking/Gaming/Roleplay. |
I don't think it should be added back; this is a Pokemon forum, after all, and I don't think we should be encouraging that kind of material, filter or not. It might just push younger kids to lie about their age in their profile / on sign-up / whatever.
It'd be a hassle anyway. I'm 18 this year and everyone my age that I know personally act as mature as 13-year-olds. The entire issue should just be avoided. |
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Taking what Advanced said (invite only), Why don't you just make a private group? If it goes crazy a group would be easer to remove than a whole sub forum me thinks. And since most noobz don't even know about groups it would just be all that much easier to manage. |
Invite only would work but you'd need a lot of really active admins who can consistently add people to the list. And there would have to be a message somewhere saying it exists.
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I'd almost say that it would better unmoderated. You have the age limit and the post limit, so you know you won't have some 13 year old going "Wahhh Imma tell my mommy you said ****!" and just let it go. Discussions will get hot, discussions will get angry... but let it go.
IMO, the problem with the old one was that there was too much moderating. Before anything could get intense, it was killed. Kinda killed the point :\ inb4 the upper staff attack me |
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Unmoderated would be a huge issue.
If someone started breaking rules, then who would punish them, and how long would it take? No, It needs to be moderated, but the moderation could be a little more relaxed. |
Hi there. Don't think we'll see the T-Dome cone back anytime soon, but let mr reiterate something before making my main point. Age doesn't prove maturity. Post count certainly doesn't either. Invite only wouldn't necessarily work because there would be a huge amount of biased views on who should get in. Not saying the people in charge are bias, just that looking into the past and seeing all the other things where someone had to call the shots on someone else... it just doesn't seem to work.
I propose a diplomatic solution. There is an appeal thread in Questions and Feedback where people can ask to be let into the T-Dome. The staff call votes on each person privately and it's done discreetly. Seems like it'd cause the least amount of conflict anyway. I don't see it coming back anyway. PC's general population has proved time and time again that it's too immature to deal with things like that, what with the reputation disaster and god knows what else. |
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Well, I do like the idea, but I just don't like the age restriction thing. Some people are mature enough when there age 12, and other's aren't mature enough when there age 21. If you can make a better rule about the age thing, I'm all for it, but either way, I think it's a good idea. xD |
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Sounds rational to me, at least. |
As someone who was an S-mod at the time the old T-dome was around, I'd pity the current staff if it ever came back. >_<
The problem with the T-dome was that people weren't so much debating in the debate threads as there was flaming eachother's opinions, and given the liberal lean PC has on most issues, those in the conservative minority were the biggest offenders. The 18+ age limit is no different in the end than the 13+ age limit the old one had. This site has a just as many mature 12-13 year olds as there are immature 18-19 year olds. things get out of hand too quickly and you get a whole forum at war over some silly debate. XD Besides, there were very few good debate threads in there anyways...most of the old T-dome threads could be summarized by saying, "lol, sex jokes are funneh!!!11"...real mature forum eh? |
Sounds like a bad version of FireBot lol. People on PC clearly aren't mature enough for this if you just look at the LGBT/Straight thread controversy.
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I'm looking at it right now... we had the forum up 4 or 5 months, there were 188 threads (not counting the rules) in that forum, that's 9 and a half pages. Only 18 of them 188 threads were locked. More then likely some of them 18 were duplicate threads, only 6 of them 18 had 20 posts or more, only 3 of them 6 had 100 posts or more (and yes there's many other threads in there that has over 100 posts). So it's not like we shut the talks down right away. I'm sure Staff were there saying "Cool it guys", but over all the members got to talk about what they wanted to talk about. And then it got out of hand, no one would listen to the Staff when we said to respect others, no bashing and flaming and so on. So what did we do? We took the forum away from the members, it's that simple. But what you're saying is... no Moderation at all. Give the members free reign to flame everyone, cuss out the other members, bash their points of view, and so on. Just another forum to break the rules right? I'm sure we all need that on PC, I mean we all have to vent right? Lets do it on PC by randomly yelling at other members for no reason at all. And don't say "Well they can't spam, they have to stay on topic" you just said "Discussions will get hot, discussions will get angry... but let it go." so we're ok with flaming, blashing, cussing out the other people, so why not get rid of the "off topic" rule for the forum as well? Yea it's what everyone wants, a forum with no Mod oversight. I will say this again... the members are not mature enough for a "mature" forum. Yea, I was one of the posters in the T-Dome, yea I was in the debate threads, yea I still love to debate. But that doesn't mean I'd vote for another. In fact I bet I can speak for most of the Higher Staff when I say... if you didn't get to see the T-Dome then sorry, there won't be another. |
I don't like the idea of a restricted section. I think that whenever the staff have to deny someone access to a part of PC there has to be a very good reason for it, like how staff have their own area for discussing things that relate to running PC and regular members don't need to be a part of that so it's not available to us. Having a forum where you have to pass a maturity test to get in is too subjective and in my mind defeats the purpose of this being a 'community'. (Besides, people can be more mature in some instances and less in others, like how loud and talkative people can quiet down when they go to a library.)
I'd like to have something like the Thunder Dome, but I see why it wouldn't work. |
I wasn't around in the time of the ThunderDome. I was probably eight and didn't yet have the internet. But I like the idea, though some people aren't very mature about touchy subjects (no pun intended). Like whenever a LGBT thread is made, it turns into a flame fest with "your wrongs" being shoved back and forth from both sides. Though some people are mature at age 13 (ex. me) and some are immature when they reach the age 18. To keep it from turning into a flame forum, the mods+ can let anyone enter yet if they are judged to be immature they will be kicked out for a while, similar to booted out for a while just with a forum though not the whole community.
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People have brought this up time and time again but alas the argument against the creation of such a forum is much to strong. I've been attacked, ridiculed, made fun of, etc. for even supporting this before because "Other Chat is more than enough" to conduct such discussions. |
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I still don't support this on a forum meant for an E-rated game. Maybe if the main goal of the forum wasn't around an E-rated subject, but in this case, it is, and it's out-of-place and inhabited by minors for the most part, and of those who are legal adults, most of them are immature. I never saw the T-Dome, but I can imagine what it would become. |
From the sounds of it, the staff has already decided.
I think it is a topic to sore to be brought up. :( |
I have to agree with what Andy is saying. No matter how many times you try to make it better, there are always going to be people who will bend the rules. Besides, this IS a pokemon forum and it wouldn't seem right for us to have a place where we discuss things that are 18+. D: Do you realize what that would bring to members... even PARENTS who allow their children to come here? Whether it was hidden to just older people or not...
There a lot of serious debaters out there who get to into these things. Even the smaller debates in OC are closed because it starts becoming a huge flame war when people can't accept one's opinions. The thunder dome isn't going to be any better and it will only have the same outcome, if not worse. I was there when they had it but... at the time, I wasn't actually IN it... I just know it was closed pretty much because of what Andy and Kura had just mentioned. D: |
Alot of people discuss those topics already, they do it just being discrete.
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Well, Take it from me, a veteran who was around to see the T-Dome founded, and disabled not too long afterwards...The T-Dome was no better than the smelliest armpit of the internet known as /b/.
The trolling, flaming, and general disrespect was rampant and having a mature discussion/debate was impossible thanks to the little kiddies who'd just post a wall of insults to anyone opposing their viewpoints. Needless to say, the censor was often pissed on so many times, it's a wonder that the T-Dome lasted as long as it did. It was, admittedly, part of PC's shameful past, just like the first and second reputation fiasco was. With all that being said, I would support the comeback of the T-Dome if it weren't for the fact that this forum is simply far too immature. There are far too many kids who would likely register a new account under a proxy, sockpuppet their way to the required number of posts and gain access to the T-Dome just to piss and **** all over anyone who disagrees with them, because they lack the maturity and paitence to conduct a calm, intelligent, and mature debate. Now, theoretically, one might argue that a veterans only requirement (People who've been here for 3+ years) could probably seal out that danger, but keep in mind that even us veterans aren't always mature, and the section would either repeat it's own history and burn down, or it'd just collect dust and rot away from the lack of people to post in it. Either way, the entire idea is hosed, simply because it's not possible to enforce the level of moderation necessary in there without forcing all threads/posts to be moderated. We'd need like 10 or 15 moderators for that section, to ensure timely post/thread approval in order to keep discussion moving at a timely pace. Not to mention, that selecting that many moderators at a time could take an insane amount of time, since moderation of this section would require maturity greatly above and beyond what is typically found in members nowadays. Additionally, all the veteran staff members are burned on the idea. Getting their vote of approval on this would be more difficult than getting blood from a turnip. X3 |
Unfortunately, there is no way to filter out all immaturity from an online community; what could we do? Over-the-internet Skype interviews? I don't think so. Even if we did something like that, the mods and admins would have absolutely no break time.
Maturity is an individual thing: you can't group an age group and declare them "mature" and decide another is "immature." It doesn't work. I like to think that PC is a generally mature community; I mean, look at all of the biiiig words we're using! And as for the Thunder Dome itself, it's been tried and tested, and was taken down once. Do you think that new rules and more admins will make a truly mature forum? Nah. It's impossible to weed out everything. |
Well then that's sad to see, Andy. I see your points, and obviously I know that there are lots of mature people who are younger than 18, but I do see a LOT of immaturity in high school kids (and younger) who claim that they ARE mature.
Anyways, yeah I get all your points, and heck.. I just think it's super sad to see that basically NONE of you can't see the community acting maturely about anything. No one really trusts anyone else with actually.. conducting themselves in a good manner. Like.. what kind of community is this, then? :/ I guess a place filled with children who don't have respect for each other or something? It's sad, yeah.. because there can be so much to talk about if only people on here respected each other more. But that being said, I respect your points, too, Andy, and I guess perhaps it's just best to go someplace else. Somewhere where we can talk about real world issues, life issues, work issues, health issues, and basically anything that doesn't involve weeaboo paraphernalia or games geared for people under the age of 12. Don't get me wrong, I love Pokemon, and this community is great, I just wish sometimes that everyone would grow up a bit. You know? Instead of talking about how Lady Gaga ROXXORS MY SOCKS OFF. We could talk about her career, her fashion, and how her view is on the world. But if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. If you guys don't like it, no big deal. I'll find another place to talk about that sorta stuff. It's just too bad that the rest of the community will be missing out. |
It's not that we don't want to; it's just that it would never work. We come here to talk about Pokemon, mainly. You don't just come here to talk about Lady Gaga, do you?...
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I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with what so many people are saying. My opinion doesn't matter in a vote, seeing as how I'm not part of that, but I don't see anything wrong with the threads I'm looking at in the TDome backup forum right now. None of these seem to be what I expected from some of these replies and I've only spotted a few of them that I can understand for some of these opinions that are being stated. Most of the threads that ended up being closed were religion based threads, from what I've seen, and I'm looking at the threads started from the beginning.
It'd be nice to give it a try. Reputation doesn't seem grounds enough for shooting it down. Reputation is basically like power for some people; they have the ability to basically make or break someone. Most people don't know what to do with power they're granted and abuse it immediately. I don't think how members acted with reputation should really influence a mature discussions forum, especially if it's put under some kind of exclusiveness like required amount of posts. The forum itself just seems like another OC + sexual and real life discussions. Maybe I'm missing something? |
Guys, uh, didn't want to discuss this directly in the thread, but I kinda have an idea regarding this situation.
http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=5748314#post5748314 <-- only for staff/supporters to see btw, but it could be helpful-ish? |
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Reputation of 7 years of PC members is the grounds to say it will never come back. We can't do age limits. Some of the worst members we've had (as far as flaming, trolling, etc.) were over 18 and even into the later 20's. We can't do post limits. People will just spam. for it. We can't do a VIP status. Younger kids will pester their parents non-stop to get mommy to pay for them to get into the "big kid" area, which will either end up with someone really immature who got in there or a parent after Steve. Also, supporter benefits are to be benefits; not the reason people donate. PC members cannot do it. We are a community based around Pokémon. A game meant for kids of all ages. A mature forum does not work here. The userbase is not at a level they can handle it. There are plenty of mature members here, and honestly, when they want to discuss something mature, they take it to PMs, MSN, or what have you. Hell, even some of the staff couldn't handle a T-Dome. |
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The main problem is, this forum is mostly full of people between 10 and 16, so I don't think that board is really appropiate for it. I'm a member of another forum full of people over 18, most of them in their late 20's, and these topics get ugly quite often, so I'm really iffy about trying it here. About a general debate forum, I'd happily support it as a subforum of OC if there were enough thoughtful debate threads, but there aren't. I think that's also the official stance of many staff members- Other Chat isn't at the top of its activity, so sending all the debate threads that pop up once per week or so to another board could be a bad blow for it. |
Other Chat already has topics that the t-Dome basically covered.
There's a thread about Atheism, another about euthanasia, 9/11, and the Day of Silence and those are all pretty "hardcore" topics Looking at the t-Dome now, there's a thread about your life after PC, "Do you believe in God?", and other topics I see every day in OVP/OC, so...I don't see how making a t-Dome when we've practically already got one called Other Chat makes much sense. If we're just talking about allowing more mature discussions in Other Chat, then it practically seems like we've got that already. Granted, like Went said, the only other discussion that really could be housed is sex topics and that doesn't necessarily need to be on a child cartoon's forum. |
I disagree with the reasons for shooting it down people before Went posted. The topics aren't at all the vile discussions I thought them to be from reading some of these posts. I agree with how it's pretty pointless to add it, since after viewing the forum itself, it's just another OC forum with sex and religion, like Went and Klippy pointed out.
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Plus factor in that Other Chat is where most of these "mature" topics should go and I just don't see the point. This "mature" forum would be the final nail in the coffin for an already ridiculously dead Other Chat. The way I see it, if a topic is too heated or too "mature" for the general populous of PC and needs to be hidden in a special-access forum, it just doesn't belong here. I know it's not entirely related, but consider rep. We originally abolished it from the forum because the members back in 04/05 (or around then) couldn't handle it. They were too immature to handle a mere FEEDBACK system. These are the same members who couldn't handle the T-Dome. What happened when we gave reputation another trial run? The members of today couldn't handle it. I honestly just assume the T-Dome will happen the same way. And since most "mature" discussions that do spawn in Other Chat end up in borderline flames (if not outright flamewars), I just don't see a reason to bother trying again in this case. (And special attention to Shadow's "some of the worst members we've ever had" point... yet another reason why an age limit would not help.) |
An age restriction? Really? I think that would just homogenize the flame war.
A post restriction would be more reasonable, but I really think the more things PC has that encourages members to +1 the more they will. And the donation status restriction? Really? Not only are donors just as likely to be immature as non-donors, but don't they already have a board for certain tiered donors to chill out? I don't think this forum's return is needed since mature discussion (as in, civilized debates, not explicit) is already permitted in OC. And lol @ sexual topics. That's unfortunate but a pretty funny realization. |
Lately, there have been some very intensive conversations, some that I find very mature and really shouldn't be discussed within amongst kids of younger ages, but are still fit to be discussed in OC. The conversation is good, but sometimes they do get a bit on the dangerous side in terms of content. In all honesty, there has rarely been any large amounts of flaming like there used to in OC. Heated arguments and witty trolling, but not (much) immature conversations.
I'm actually ready to support a TDome, as long as there is that age requirement and possibly a postcount expectation. It'd also require that the discussions should be approved before the threads are made, so we won't get like, "OBAMA SUCKS: Discuss." But yeah, PC's getting older and so are the members. I think the discussion is maturing too. Alas....I don't know what would happen to OC if this happened. ): There are rarely any non serious discussion there that doesn't belong in OVP or the Post Your Problems Thread, you know? |
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