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-   -   Do you think Inserting New Tilesets is nescessary for making a hack? (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=217640)

pringles_king May 5th, 2010 5:30 PM

Do you think Inserting New Tilesets is nescessary for making a hack?
 
im going to start making a hack and i'm having trouble with only getting tilesets put into the game so i want to know if it is possible to make a good hack going without it?
what do you guys think? should i work on the hack now
or stop work on attempting the tile inserting?

Banjora Marxvile May 6th, 2010 8:46 AM

Woah, I say not. Despite being the thing I am greatest at, you do not need new tiles. Sure, it makes it look good, but story and scripts take prime place over anything.

Ray Maverick May 6th, 2010 8:47 AM

If you can't insert tiles, just don't. You CAN make a quality hack basin on scripting, details and originality.

simdu68 May 6th, 2010 10:42 AM

well, if you are really good scripter and bad at tiling then you can create a great hack without needing to insert tile....
for me it is different, I'm mainly taking care of the graphics how it looks like coz I can't script well, so for me inserting tiles and making great maps is the most important coz if I can't script at least the graphic looks great and the palyer is pleased to be in such a pretty world^^
so if you can script good you don't really need new tiles......
but if you can do both well this is the best^^

PeregrineFig May 6th, 2010 10:55 AM

New tilesets are definitely NOT a necessity. For my hack, for example, I've only inserted a couple tiles, but I palette edited the default ones to give it a touch of originality. If you can't completely add tilesets, you could do that. AdvanceMap actually has a tool to make it easy in the block editor. Combine that and APE's color picker and gradient maker, and you're good to go.

Mr. Magius May 6th, 2010 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pringles_king
it is possible to make a good hack going without it?

Erm, are you serious? Mostly...actually, all of the good ROM hacks out there have no changes in tilesets, or even graphics, whatsoever. A good hack isn't judged for its looks, though it does make it look flashy, but scripting, mapping and overall quality and professionalism are what are judged for. If the original game was good with its plain graphics, then the hack will be good if you follow the correct procedure.

Don't judge a book by its cover.

Binary May 6th, 2010 12:05 PM

If you want to make it graphically appealing, then maybe. But you can do as much without it as you can with it.

Mr. Magius May 6th, 2010 12:10 PM

...Oh, and you'll probably end up with something even worse than what the ROM gave you in the first place. 99.9% of the hacks in the Tile/Palette Rating Thread use custom tiles, and it's clear that they don't work. Just use the default tiles, unless you're given something better!

Penumbra May 6th, 2010 12:18 PM

Personally, I think some new tile insertions are disgusting, if done overboard. I hate the trend of trying to make everything 3D, like the new games. I mean, new tiles are nice. New tiles, no one said wannabe three-dimensionals.

In my opinion, I think new tilesets improve a game's overall appearance. DEFINITELY not necessary, but it is a big benefit if used properly. I wish I knew the works of tile insertion and the like, but I don't. Basically, if you can't do it, you have three options: A) Move on without it, B) Put yourself through rigorous training in order to learn a new thing C) get someone else to do it.

I'd choose B, but I flat out don't know how to learn about it. So I'm most likely going to do C). To answer the poll, move on if you can't do it. You can try, but don't lose hair over it. It really isn't worth it. After all, scripting and relatively new maps can compensate for the lack of new tiles. Scripts (used for a good storyline) > Anything else, in my opinion.

sasquatchd00d May 6th, 2010 3:44 PM

yeh. new tiles are new. old tiles are old.

nah. for real, you don't need new tiles. the fire red tiles were used for a reason. they just have a perfect fit for a pokémon game. i personally like to insert new tiles though. i find it fun. :)

Muffin™ May 6th, 2010 3:48 PM

Well, it's necessary if your in a cold region (snow) or if your in a warm region, much like Hoenn.


Other than that, no.

Alistair May 6th, 2010 3:54 PM

No, they aren't needed. As stated many times before, you can make a good hack through scripting and the story, but you also have to include a playable world. I fully agree that lately, new tiles can make a hack look worse than what it would look like with official tiles. If you can insert tiles relatively well, I would say try it and ask for opinions. If not, don't worry about it.

violentiris777 May 6th, 2010 4:08 PM

It can be nice, but I've seen plenty of nice hacks without new tiles.

Darkerm May 6th, 2010 4:10 PM

Well tiles are important for a hack. Also good story and good script. I think a hack without new tiles kinda boring to play. So I think new tiles make a hack better.

hackerofdarkness May 6th, 2010 4:22 PM

Well not really mapping and scripting make a great hack like rijion it had the basic tiles and it won hack of the year.

Zeffy May 6th, 2010 5:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkerm (Post 5778234)
Well tiles are important for a hack. Also good story and good script. I think a hack without new tiles kinda boring to play. So I think new tiles make a hack better.

This is so not true. Tiles are not important, you can make a good quality hack with just great mapping and scripting. If you rely on the tiles that is boring.

Chaos Rush May 6th, 2010 6:49 PM

Woops, I voted without reading the polls carefully. I thought it meant, "Don't start tile editing until you know it".

Anyways, I'm fine with using the default Hoenn / Kanto tiles found in R/S/FR/LG/E, because most custom tiles look horrible, to be honest.

Vrai May 6th, 2010 6:56 PM

It's your hack. Do what you want with it. Who cares about popular demand?

And if you can't figure it out, keep moving forward. You'll come back sometime and be like, "Oh! I get this now!"

chrunch May 6th, 2010 9:46 PM

I can Map, Script, Sprite(Although my spriting is horrible), and do everything else in hacking exept insert tiles. But that doesn't stop me hacking. In my opinion, FR tiles look fine, and if you still want to insert tiles, you can just get a rombase.

giradialkia May 6th, 2010 10:15 PM

...
It's a tricky one. I mean, you'll rarely find an RSE hack without a tileset change- but that's because people just generally find them horrible to look at. FR tiles are much better, so they're accepted better. However...
There are an awful lot of Fire Red hacks that use the default tileset. While I agree with what people said- "a hack just needs good maps, good scripts and originality"- it's kinda hard to look original when everyone's using the same tiles, is it not?
Having said that, though, if you can't come to grips with tile inserting right now, leave it. Continue the hack, then go back and try learning again, later.

Shiny Quagsire May 7th, 2010 5:31 AM

I think tiles are nice, but are not needed. However, Most people like a little originality. I you can't insert tiles, try editing the pallets to make it beam a little. A good hack has good scripts and good maps (Maybe some ASM too :)).

Chaos Rush May 7th, 2010 8:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrai (Post 5778686)
It's your hack. Do what you want with it. Who cares about popular demand?

That's exactly what my philosophy is. That's why even if my thread dies, I'm going to continue working on my hack, after all, I still want to play it.

Alice May 7th, 2010 9:04 AM

As everyone else said, no they aren't that important... but it is useful to change some sprites/building tiles etc, if you want your characters to be totally original.

Penumbra May 7th, 2010 1:21 PM

I think, in some occasions (depending on your outlook of your hack's size) new tiles are 100% necessary. For example, let's say you want you region to have a giant bridge. Or you want some event to take place up in the sky with clouds. At times like these, you can't exactly rely on the archetypal tiles of Pokemon: Grass, Cave, City floor..

I mean, if your characters are babbling about this whole event taking place in the sky, and them referring to certain things that aren't even there, the scenario would just end up looking a bit... dumb..

"Oh my gosh, that's a beautifully shaped cloud! It looks like a Rayquaza! (character faces cloud' only to direct the player towards a tree)"

If you plan to make your hack big, as in by using different regions unfamiliar to the rather limited tiles granted upon you, only then should you turn that new tileset into a priority.

Sometimes people might just substitute things with the standard tiles, and it turns out okay. Decent. Not great, but satisfactory. That's the reaction you want to avoid. Pokemon maps are all about visuals, and if your story says something, yet the visuals are totally thrown in a different direction, signals will get crossed and it'll be overall unpleasant.

If you want your cave to have specific things, or a field to have specific tile, I suggest you just substitute it. Only if a MAJOR AREA is in need of tiles that aren't available, only then should you turn towards the looming thought of Tile Insertion.

Just my overwritten opinion.

Xela May 7th, 2010 2:10 PM

In my opinion, no, you don't require new tiles to make a great hack. Sure, it makes it look good, but I only believe in hacks that are based of their features, storyline and scripts, that's what makes it a lot more interesting.

I find it hard to find the right tiles for a hack, and find it hard to insert them the "right" way, so I normally use the normal FR tiles, and maybe do some changes there and there. However, I'm kinda a perfectionist, so if the tile isn't perfect, I simply won't add it. :/

If you can't insert tiles, then don't. But if you can, but don't want new tiles, then don't.
It's your hack, it's your choice.

I've also noticed that when people are looking at screenshots they only care about graphics, and if it isn't good enough, they leave and don't bother. (I'm not pointing at PC members, but lazy visitors, etc.)


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