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Zet May 13th, 2010 7:57 PM

Apple hits the fan
 
So with the current mass amount of companies suing Apple for patent infringement, what is your opinion on it? Mine would be that Apple is getting what they deserve. Seriously, they have been biased for years, sell you over priced crap and release a new better version the next year just for you to throw more money at them.... And besides the suing, there's also Apple trying to get rid of flash even though Adobe has supported Apple for years.

Lucy Lu May 13th, 2010 9:50 PM

Wow, that is insane. Poor Apple. Well I guess they do deserve it. They overprice their stuff. If it wasn't the case I would love to gotten more Apple stuff. All I have is iPod Touch, and that is all they are getting from me.

I think maybe they will get out of the rut and rebuild. Got to wait and see.

Zet May 13th, 2010 11:00 PM

Well people who buy the mac usually doing it for video editing and stuff so they will purchase adobe premier for the editing but if Apple removes all connections to Adobe, a lot less mac will be sold(not like there are any sales, hur hur)

linkinpark187 May 14th, 2010 3:05 AM

Actually, you really don't need a Mac for video/photo editing anymore, either. Think about it. Now that the world has HDMI, if you get a PC with HDMI outputs and you have a monitor/TV with the inputs, then you have a great quality screen (I know, because I have this particular setup at home). I probably would have bought a Mac years ago if I could have ever afforded one, but I can't.

I knew about them trying to out Flash, which is just ridiculous, because about 99% of sites that have content on them is in Flash (not an actual figure, but that seems to be the way it is in my experience). I think they're going to be making an enemy out of Adobe if they don't cut it out.

That's something else that bugs me about Mac is it's founder, Steve Jobs. He thinks that Apple is the ultimate company in everything. Don't tell me he doesn't, just watch his video on revealing the iPad. He even comes out and says (in a general manner) that the iPad is far superior to the netbook. Can't wait for the HP Slate to come out. Then we'll se which is superior. Muah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! lol

Zet May 14th, 2010 3:34 AM

Well at least he had a cry over how the Android phone had more sales in the first quarter than the iphone did.

linkinpark187 May 14th, 2010 4:18 AM

Yeah, I heard about that. I'm sure when he heard about that, he probably died a little inside. :laugh:

Dawn May 14th, 2010 5:27 AM

It's his own stupid fault for being such a jerk to developers and out'ing flash. Android 2.2 will have flash, you know. That to me says Android will have the iPhone by the neck.

Apple's getting what it deserves. I've grown sick to the point I want to puke of Apple's illegal, misleading, unfair behavior.

Apple gets away with everything Microsoft gets put down for. It's absolutely infuriating to watch from the comfort of my home.

>8/

I can understand Linux getting away with stuff, because it's free / open source.

But Apple products are the polar opposite of open source.

In short, I hope Apple gets put in it's place once and for all.

Cherrim May 14th, 2010 5:34 AM

I don't really care much about these lawsuits. :( Probably sucks for Apple.

But I did lol over Steve Jobs's "omg flash sucks because it is not open source!!!" essay while he's sitting on top of the app store which, imo, is far, far worse as far as being accessible, open-sourced, etc. :|

(Also lol'd at Pixar who supposedly has a very close relationship with Apple--the Toy Story 3 website is flash-based. Bet Jobs was thrilled!)

linkinpark187 May 14th, 2010 6:12 AM

That's funny. It's kind of like Pixar just gave a big old f' you to Apple. Now Pixar just needs to start moving over to PC. That would really upset Lord Jobs. :laugh:

Dawn May 14th, 2010 9:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning (Post 5798925)

(Also lol'd at Pixar who supposedly has a very close relationship with Apple--the Toy Story 3 website is flash-based. Bet Jobs was thrilled!)


I had no idea Toy Story 3 was coming out!!! D=

Also, is anyone besides me still fuming over the fact that Mac gets to push it's favorite Browser, Safari, while in the EU, Windows is forbidden from doing so?

That's just one of the reasons I don't feel any sympathy for Apple.

Zet May 14th, 2010 6:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning (Post 5798925)
I don't really care much about these lawsuits. :( Probably sucks for Apple.

But I did lol over Steve Jobs's "omg flash sucks because it is not open source!!!" essay while he's sitting on top of the app store which, imo, is far, far worse as far as being accessible, open-sourced, etc. :|

(Also lol'd at Pixar who supposedly has a very close relationship with Apple--the Toy Story 3 website is flash-based. Bet Jobs was thrilled!)

Jobs said flash was a resource hog and caused Macs to crash, but Adobe's CEO said "If Flash is the #1 reason Macs crash, which I'm not aware of, it has as much as to do with the Apple [mac] OS"

Also, Portal runs twice as fast on Windows than it does on an Apple computer.

edit: Oh wow an Apple store that has discrimination, that's just sad. http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2010/05/07/2010-05-07_untitled__2apple07m.html

twocows May 15th, 2010 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PkMnTrainer Yellow (Post 5799236)

I had no idea Toy Story 3 was coming out!!! D=

Also, is anyone besides me still fuming over the fact that Mac gets to push it's favorite Browser, Safari, while in the EU, Windows is forbidden from doing so?

That's just one of the reasons I don't feel any sympathy for Apple.

That's bugged me for a while. Apple's far more monopolistic than Microsoft is, and yet Microsoft catches all the crap for whatever reason. Apple forces you to buy their hardware if you want to use their software, and bundles a lot of their in-house software with their OS. You can't buy Apple unless you buy EVERYTHING Apple, this is the definition of monopolistic behavior. Quite frankly, I'm surprised they haven't been sued off the face of the earth. Microsoft even has an open source foundation now; they've done a lot in recent years to change my opinion of them.

Aureol May 15th, 2010 1:04 PM

Bill Gates and Steve Jobs... hard to tell who I hate more sometimes :| Both of them are greedy punks. I like the Mac computer more, but I hate both companies a lot. Whether one company gets more crud than the other I don't care, but they are both trying the same things. I guess I feel a little bad for Microsoft because Apple's gotten away with more, but still...

Saltare. May 15th, 2010 1:28 PM

The only Apple thing I own is an iPod Touch and that was around $300...I don't blame them being sued. Everything is overpriced...

.Seth May 15th, 2010 1:57 PM

I admit Apple's overpriced, but their products far outshine most of what's on the market. I have an iPhone 3GS, and I could never go back to a samsung, or any other phone. I'm interested in trying out a Droid, but Android doesn't have that luster that I see when I look at my iPhone. And no, I'm not some rich stuck-up Apple fanboy, I just bought a $200 phone and it's simply awesome. :/

Their computers are what's really overpriced. A Macbook Pro 13" is on my wishlist, and it's over twice as expensive as the hardware I have now (500GB HD, 3GB DDR2, to be brief).

I'm not that surprised that they're being sued, but HTC's doing something a bit drastic IMO, trying to halt all of Apple's sales.

And, as far as Apple not being open-source, this is why people jailbreak their iDevices, to open up many goodies that Apple doesn't like, which is what makes their products truly shine. MyWi (instant wi-fi and usb tethering) is a lifesaver at times, and things like Winterboard (theming, think: custom icons, your own wallpaper in the springboard) and so much more. A little tinkering, and their locked-down products can be a lot more open source, with thousands of developers making tweaks and apps that Apple won't allow available.

wakachamo May 15th, 2010 3:17 PM

My brain hurts so much from all of these posts.

First off this has nothing to do with Flash. The patent issue is actually a counter-attack from HTC. While I agree that Apple's been detrimentally anti-competitive these past few months, Flash is not related in any way to this. I don't get why you're all complaining about this. Apple's still allowing development of Flash on OSX (in fact they started encouraging it since a few months ago), it's just not for their mobile devices. That's a decision that, in my opinion, a manufacturer is entitled to take. If something's not up to performance standards, then they should have the right to not include it.

People are moving away from Flash. 26% of video is now H.264-ready compared to January's 10%, and more and more companies are abdicating from flash as a general-purpose webdesign utility and are beginning to explore the actually standardized HTML5 techniques.

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkinpark187 (Post 5798656)
Can't wait for the HP Slate to come out. Then we'll se which is superior. Muah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! lol

Actually, the HP Slate was canceled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PkMnTrainer Yellow (Post 5798918)
It's his own stupid fault for being such a jerk to developers and out'ing flash.

That, of all other things, is definitely not true. They provide stellar, rock-solid frameworks and environments (before you say anything, I'm not pulling facts out of my ass), and even the Mac platform is extremely developer-oriented right out of the box. (Windows doesn't include Ruby (and Rails)/Python/Java dev environments, while OS X has them all)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zet (Post 5800357)
Also, Portal runs twice as fast on Windows than it does on an Apple computer.

Comparing an open beta to a solid graphics engine that's been around for years is kind of dumb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocows (Post 5801074)
That's bugged me for a while. Apple's far more monopolistic than Microsoft is, and yet Microsoft catches all the crap for whatever reason. Apple forces you to buy their hardware if you want to use their software, and bundles a lot of their in-house software with their OS. You can't buy Apple unless you buy EVERYTHING Apple, this is the definition of monopolistic behavior. Quite frankly, I'm surprised they haven't been sued off the face of the earth. Microsoft even has an open source foundation now; they've done a lot in recent years to change my opinion of them.

Apple's frameworks are actually based on several open-source projects to which they have endlessly contributed. Both companies are equally devoted to open-source software.
Quote:

Originally Posted by .Seth (Post 5801220)

And, as far as Apple not being open-source, this is why people jailbreak their iDevices, to open up many goodies that Apple doesn't like, which is what makes their products truly shine. MyWi (instant wi-fi and usb tethering) is a lifesaver at times, and things like Winterboard (theming, think: custom icons, your own wallpaper in the springboard) and so much more. A little tinkering, and their locked-down products can be a lot more open source, with thousands of developers making tweaks and apps that Apple won't allow available.

Open-source software doesn't have anything to do with jailbreaking your device. There are several open-source projects on the App Store, a prime example being Colloquy Mobile. You're thinking about freedom of development, which is a much more complex issue, not "open-source".

While I agree that Apple is slowly starting to become the very company they criticized and feared, some of these points are unfounded and make no sense. This is basically a counter-sue by HTC and is primarily based on interface-related issues and conflicts, not an immature war between who makes the loudest cry.

Zet May 15th, 2010 5:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .Seth (Post 5801220)
I admit Apple's overpriced, but their products far outshine most of what's on the market. I have an iPhone 3GS, and I could never go back to a samsung, or any other phone. I'm interested in trying out a Droid, but Android doesn't have that luster that I see when I look at my iPhone. And no, I'm not some rich stuck-up Apple fanboy, I just bought a $200 phone and it's simply awesome. :/

Their computers are what's really overpriced. A Macbook Pro 13" is on my wishlist, and it's over twice as expensive as the hardware I have now (500GB HD, 3GB DDR2, to be brief).

I'm not that surprised that they're being sued, but HTC's doing something a bit drastic IMO, trying to halt all of Apple's sales.

And, as far as Apple not being open-source, this is why people jailbreak their iDevices, to open up many goodies that Apple doesn't like, which is what makes their products truly shine. MyWi (instant wi-fi and usb tethering) is a lifesaver at times, and things like Winterboard (theming, think: custom icons, your own wallpaper in the springboard) and so much more. A little tinkering, and their locked-down products can be a lot more open source, with thousands of developers making tweaks and apps that Apple won't allow available.

Nice to know you don't enjoy multi-tasking and won't be able to use OS4 because you bricked your iphone for jailbreaking it,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aureol (Post 5801107)
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs... hard to tell who I hate more sometimes :| Both of them are greedy punks. I like the Mac computer more, but I hate both companies a lot. Whether one company gets more crud than the other I don't care, but they are both trying the same things. I guess I feel a little bad for Microsoft because Apple's gotten away with more, but still...

Bill Gates isn't a greedy douche bag like Steven Jobs. Gates actually does charitable stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakachamo (Post 5801468)
Comparing an open beta to a solid graphics engine that's been around for years is kind of dumb.

I saw a test done between windows and mac when running Portal.

here's a link to it: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3726/quick-look-mac-os-x-portal-performance

twocows May 15th, 2010 6:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aureol (Post 5801107)
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs... hard to tell who I hate more sometimes :| Both of them are greedy punks. I like the Mac computer more, but I hate both companies a lot. Whether one company gets more crud than the other I don't care, but they are both trying the same things. I guess I feel a little bad for Microsoft because Apple's gotten away with more, but still...

Bill Gates is about as far from a "greedy punk" as you can get with someone at his level of wealth. He's a huge philanthropist, he founds and contributes to his own charity organization that helps millions of people.

Steve Jobs, on the other hand, sues people for talking about his products.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakachamo (Post 5801468)
Apple's frameworks are actually based on several open-source projects to which they have endlessly contributed. Both companies are equally devoted to open-source software.

The way I understand it (and I could be wrong), Apple is required to contribute to the open source projects they... "base" their software on. Perhaps I'm entirely off-base. Still, they're extremely locked down and closed off with everything else, and their ethical decisions are atrocious at best. You said it best yourself; they're becoming the company they once hated (or at least the one that Woz hated).

twocows May 16th, 2010 4:13 PM

I believe the topic was "what is your opinion on what's currently happening with Apple," in which case I have to say they're getting what they deserve. The app store nonsense and refusing to support Flash were a huge slap in the face toward developers; tack that on to all the other questionable stuff they do and I have no sympathy for them. Additionally, they were the ones that filed the suit initially, and against HTC, a company I have a lot of respect for. I have no problems with Apple being sued into the ground; I say it's about time someone called them on their crap.

Zet May 16th, 2010 6:28 PM

I really should have generalized what I posted when the thread title as "Apple hits the fan" but really it's to do with all the crap Apple has been doing lately and what's happening to them.

Also Jobs wants freedom from porn

twocows May 16th, 2010 7:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zet (Post 5805991)
I really should have generalized what I posted when the thread title as "Apple hits the fan" but really it's to do with all the crap Apple has been doing lately and what's happening to them.

Also Jobs wants freedom from porn

Wow, what a douche. "Freedom from porn?" Isn't that just censorship? And the line about needing to create things to be important? Oh jeez. He just dissed a lot of people. Does the Red Cross create anything? Does the Electronic Frontier Foundation create anything? For that matter, does APPLE create anything? No, they don't; Apple builds on things that already exist like most people, only difference is they claim to be "inventing" when they're really "marketing."

Zet May 16th, 2010 9:57 PM

It's also as bad as when Apple censored some cartoon/comic strips for ipods and what not. I guess Apple is the China of Operating Systems, hur hur.

wakachamo May 17th, 2010 9:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocows (Post 5805448)
I believe the topic was "what is your opinion on what's currently happening with Apple," in which case I have to say they're getting what they deserve. The app store nonsense and refusing to support Flash were a huge slap in the face toward developers; tack that on to all the other questionable stuff they do and I have no sympathy for them. Additionally, they were the ones that filed the suit initially, and against HTC, a company I have a lot of respect for. I have no problems with Apple being sued into the ground; I say it's about time someone called them on their crap.

I don't see how it's a slap in the face for developers. If Apple wants to maintain the quality of their distribution channel, then that's their problem, not yours. Besides, developers aren't forced to use Apple's platform. And even then, their own frameworks aren't really that hard to use. Like I said before, Apple focuses a lot on developer support and always has.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zet (Post 5805991)
I really should have generalized what I posted when the thread title as "Apple hits the fan" but really it's to do with all the crap Apple has been doing lately and what's happening to them.

So this thread is now a "Let's bash Apple thread". k.
Quote:

Originally Posted by twocows (Post 5806128)
Wow, what a douche. "Freedom from porn?" Isn't that just censorship? And the line about needing to create things to be important? Oh jeez. He just dissed a lot of people. Does the Red Cross create anything? Does the Electronic Frontier Foundation create anything? For that matter, does APPLE create anything? No, they don't; Apple builds on things that already exist like most people, only difference is they claim to be "inventing" when they're really "marketing."

Bash me if you can't resist but Apple does innovate. This isn't to say that they've demonstrated the capability to create something completely new, but they definitely have the skill to build upon a concept and make it solid and appealing. The iPhone has spawned an entirely different market that manufacturers didn't even know existed. Since then, pretty much every manufacturer has decided to hop on the bandwagon.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zet (Post 5806521)
It's also as bad as when Apple censored some cartoon/comic strips for ipods and what not. I guess Apple is the China of Operating Systems, hur hur.

I take it the "strips for ipods" is in reference to the App Store, which in my opinion Apple has the right to moderate since it's a distribution channel that they host and provide. Their policies are and have always been explicit to the developer, and thus they have the right to make decisions based on those policies.

I'm not saying they haven't screwed up in the past with the App Store, which they have. But so far they've been quick to solve any issue that's come across and have even let go of some boundaries that were initially present.

twocows May 17th, 2010 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakachamo (Post 5807381)
I don't see how it's a slap in the face for developers. If Apple wants to maintain the quality of their distribution channel, then that's their problem, not yours. Besides, developers aren't forced to use Apple's platform. And even then, their own frameworks aren't really that hard to use. Like I said before, Apple focuses a lot on developer support and always has.

It's not about quality. They will (very often) veto a genuinely useful app in favor of another ten fart apps. That's hardly quality. And "developers aren't forced to use our platform" is an ages old ad hominem argument (you may notice Steve Jobs used it himself in that link, it certainly wouldn't be the first time). Nobody's saying they are forced to use it, I certainly never said people were forced to use their platform, but that doesn't change the fact that it is quite terrible.


Quote:

Bash me if you can't resist but Apple does innovate. This isn't to say that they've demonstrated the capability to create something completely new, but they definitely have the skill to build upon a concept and make it solid and appealing. The iPhone has spawned an entirely different market that manufacturers didn't even know existed. Since then, pretty much every manufacturer has decided to hop on the bandwagon.
Why would I bash you? Please don't make assumptions, I do not flame people over a bit of debate. I agree that Apple has the ability to improve upon existing designs, but my beef isn't with that, it's that they claim to invent things while doing it. They "invented" the smartphone, they "invented" touch screen, they "invented" multi-touch. No, they didn't. They didn't invent any of things, they did exactly as you said: they improved upon concepts and designs that already existed. Also, the iPhone is probably a poor example of your point (which I actually agree with); the smartphone market was already entirely established, all that changed with the iPhone was the general design of the things (and personally, I hate the new design; give me my tactile response back, please).

Quote:

I take it the "strips for ipods" is in reference to the App Store, which in my opinion Apple has the right to moderate since it's a distribution channel that they host and provide. Their policies are and have always been explicit to the developer, and thus they have the right to make decisions based on those policies.
No, their policy is not explicit. It's "we can reject your stuff for any reason." Good luck trying to find what that reason is; they only tell if it's getting them bad press, like with the Google App and a few other high profile ones.

TRIFORCE89 May 17th, 2010 10:32 AM

I brush aside the patents. This happens all the time, regardless of the companies involved. It just escalates when the company or product in question is a success. May be legit, may not. And if it is, that's a shame. But, nothing out of the ordinary is what I'm saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zet (Post 5798183)
Seriously, they have been biased for years, sell you over priced crap and release a new better version the next year just for you to throw more money at them....

Then don't "throw money at them". Welcome to capitalism. That how it works. No company is out there for your best interest aside from ensuring that their products don't harm you - because that'd be another lawsuit. They want money. Every company wants money. Period. They release stuff they think will sell. If you don't want to buy it, then don't, and tell them otherwise. Supply and demand. Just because it exists doesn't mean you need to own it. I have one MacBook Pro and one iPod (and an old mini, but that was free so it doesn't count). I don't run out and buy new stuff all the time. I don't need to. This stuff is built to last. If you want to latest and greatest and keep shelling out money for it, that's your problem (and a corporation's dream).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zet (Post 5798183)
And besides the suing, there's also Apple trying to get rid of flash even though Adobe has supported Apple for years.

Nothing personal, just business. I *hate* Flash websites. I don't have an iPhone, iPod Touch, or an iPad, but if I did have one I don't think I'd be missing out on much. I would be missing dinky flash games however, and that's where I think this all came out of. The apps. A lot of apps are basically dinky Flash-like applications and games. So, close up the hole for free alternatives I guess. Makes business sense to me. (All that said, I still think Flash should be supported).

The same applies to what apps are made available. Its Apple's distribution channel. If they figure that something is against their best interests, they block it. It's not being mean. Again, capitalism. You have choices. Don't like how the App Store operates? Grab a Google phone or a Blackberry and browse their stores.

There is a lot of questionable and unethical goings-ons in business. Except for maybe the patents (which I don't really know the logistics of), improving your product and protecting your brand are really the most trivial of things.


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