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gender is weird
being a girl, sometimes i dont think i fit the appearance, if you will, to undertake certain tasks and prefer certain things. i realize there are some things that set men and women apart, i just don't like the superficiality of it all and how society lets sexual stereotypes define the individual. what do you think about gender identity, its state and where its headed?
edit: i'll just quote myself here because some don't seem to be understanding what i'm asking. Quote:
sorry for any misunderstandings in the way i've worded things, i can't say i'm the most eloquent speaker xD |
Well, it stands that due to mental and physical differences, men are different than women, and as such they've developed different roles and general characteristics over the past millennia. Naturally there are, have been, and will be exceptions. I think it would be better to simply acknowledge these exceptions rather than make a big fat hairy deal about it. Here's looking at you, feminism.
As for society stereotyping a person, leave the media to their own devices. They can't actually change you unless you accept the stereotype as truth. |
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i'll put it in simpler terms. gender roles have, more or less, destroyed the individual in a way. not that i'm complaining because it is what it is, i'm just curious about people's stance on the matter, how it affects them, and if they're seeing progress in terms of society's ability to see past the surface of a person. |
I'm trying to think of a time when gender roles didn't exist. It's not working.
I'm now trying to think of a time when Individuality has been overlooked by intelligent people. It's not working very well either. Finally, I'm trying to think of any reason gender roles have anymore power than any other form of generalization. Yeah... not working either. Conclusion? Shallow morons will be shallow morons. If it isn't "gender roles" it will be something else. That's what I think. |
A little while back I read a news article (more of an opinion piece, really) that said society is moving closer to a state of androgyny where people more frequently interact with each other regardless of gender and there is no "mystery" among the sexes. The person who wrote this thought it was a bad thing. I think it's wonderful. I'm going to a wedding tomorrow and the bride has only one bridesmaid but several bridesmen (or whatever the term is) because they're the people she's closest to. I think it's awesome that she doesn't see anything weird with that.
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Gender stereotypes are disappearing now. But you can't do anything about ignorant and uneducated people. Gender differences are still differences, I mean, if somebody does say that you can't beat a guy up as a girl, there's nothing wrong, because that's the way a girl is meant to be. I know, there are exceptions, but it's just an example. However, for other things, being biased is completely wrong. |
I don't think sexism is clearing that much =\, well fortunatly this website shows no sexism which is great! ^.^ It shows i can be a idiotic, selfish, moron until i get banned! Which won't happen, cuz i'm too cool 4 that.
This thread sounds like it's gonna turn into a huge debate though..=/, everybody has suffered from sexism, poopnoodle, the state gender equality is in..uh..it's good on this website like i said before ^-^, if you've got any problems, just tell me noodle, and i will sought those -???- right out! Don't Worry, be happy. ^___^ |
There are differences in tastes, physical differences and all that but for the most part, I don't really worry about all that.
I just do what I feel is right when it feels right, it's the best way to work I think. Each to their own when it comes to sexuality, to some it's rigid, to some it's more fluid, it pretty much depends on the individual. I have my own tastes but don't really want to get into all that here. |
There's a difference between sex and gender. Sex is biological and it's basically what hormones/sexual organs/physical shape you have etc. But gender is different, it is a social construction. Humans are naturally androgynous but we learn gender roles through early Socialisation. As rational creatures, we need to overcome gender more than we have.
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I'd say humans are naturally male or female. It goes past physical appearance- it's a part of a person's mind. Rather than androgynous, humans are naturally malleable at birth. The influences of human interaction apply quickly, leaving us with little information about the state of our minds at birth. However, all of this is really rather irrelevant. I need it to be clearly seen. If what you claim is true, I'll wait and see if people who share that view raise their children in a way that results in a person observing that it's true. Social androgyny, rather than simply encouraged to be bisexual or anything like that. |
As a man...a manly man with a muscular build and epic facial hair...I've rarely felt looked down upon because of traditional gender roles. :D
Seriously, the way I see gender roles, it's more intrapersonal more than interpersonal. I accepted many facets of the traditional male gender role not because it was forced on me, but rather because they fell under my interests and became things that make me feel good regardless. Societal gender roles are are so specific and far-reaching that it'd be impossible for you to fit in perfectly or be a perfect misfit. You're always gonna have some facet of your gender stereotype whether you want to or both and nobody can really judge you for it. XD |
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Well, not entirely. Yes, sex is a biological state of the physical body, but gender deals with your mentality. Have you ever heard of those people who are one gender stuck in the other's body? Its like that. Gender is the mental state and sex is the physical state. |
I'm gonna agree with Yellow here. Men and women are born differently by physically, and mentally, with different instincts and roles that went with them. While the latter two have declined in usage, it's still portrayed in the animal kingdom, especially among pack animals.
Pysically, men are usually taller and stronger *key word is usually, so don't kill me femnazis :P*, which were traits used to protect the family. In modern times, the instinct to protect became the intinct to protect finiancially, hence the term 'man of the house' and all that jazz. Men's larger builds have also made them more common of a sight to see in hard labor jobs than women. Women are usually more delicate and gentle, in both manifestations. Women, being the ones that give birth, are naturally more nurturing. In the times before baby formula, an infant would not survive without its mother or another female that can breastfeed. Women also have more delicate and smaller hands, allowing better percision and there are many jobs in todays world, such as dentists. Granted, there are ALWAYS exceptions to the above, but I'm talking in a more generalized manner |
I don't wanna feel ignorant or stupid, despite not understanding a good deal of what has been said above, but what I have seen in the short sixteen years of my life is that there are people who believe men are superior and women aren't, that women are superior and men aren't, and that men and women are equal. If we're talking about physical build, then it seems like men just naturally become more muscular, etc. as they get older (before becoming old men, I mean) and women are built more towards beauty then physical strength. I'm not being sexist, I'm just saying what I've seen. If you wanna go all Darwinism on me, okay, then wouldn't that be that a long time ago, men were the protectors, hence their strengths, and women were beautiful to attract men to protect them, start a family, hence their beauty, etc.? Personally, I don't believe that the world has been around millions upon millions of years, since there's no concrete proof of that, in fact, there's proof that says otherwise. But anyway, that was what I've seen about men and women physically. Mentally, they seem equal, some would even say women are smarter ( :P ) but I wouldn't know if that's true or not, at school you have guys and girls getting all A's, it doesn't seem like genius has a gender preference. Socially, maybe the reason why you see more guy construction workers then girl construction workers is because men have a build that is more compatible with heavy work? Of course there are exceptions.
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But if you want to go "Darwinism", it would probably be more for women to be child characters, hence breasts, arms shaped perfectly for holding a baby, and a common tendency for a more gentile nature. |
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men have bigger dicks and muscles, girls mature faster and have bigger boobs okay i've said my fair share |
i've edited the original post with this to prevent further misunderstandings of the topic, and here is just a reminder of what i'm asking.
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sorry for any misunderstanding because of the way i've worded things, i can't say i'm the most eloquent speaker xD |
Destroyed the individual? Well gender roles have been around, at least from what we can tell, probably about as long as individuality. So if anything, those gender roles have weakened over the past many years.
Though I get your point. Gender roles push people into interests, development of personality and such rather than discovering life as an individual, at least that's how I interpreted it. An issue, maybe, but a serious one to the point that its destroying individuality, I don't think so. |
I feel I'm not affected by gender role weakening at all. I think that there was a good reason gender roles were put, and I would really stumble upon a society that disrupts them.
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Tl;dr version: I don't treat girls equally as boys, and I'm not planning to. Because I made my personality like this, and I like this distinction of genders. |
You know, an odd thought occured to me.
No tl;dr in this post, just something that I strangely didn't think of before. Quote:
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Do you mean like how some people think it is weird if you are a girl and you play videogames?
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I've never really noticed it, y'know? Genders. It's never concerned me. I have guy friends, I have girl friends. I'm bisexual, they're all just my friends, y'know? It's not like I treat any of them different. I guess it's also because I have a friend who is physically female, but very clearly mentally male. And I'm androgynous mentally, I would class myself as both, so I can't really treat one differently.
Gender only matters when it comes to having sex - and by that I mean it's nice to know if you're having sex with a guy or a girl. Doesn't concern me either way, it's just nice to know. So I suppose I don't treat girls and boys differently, and I don't think I ever will. I know that people are slipping into their genders stereotype, if you feel comfortable with that, then I'm not one to stop you. And that's my answer... unless I misunderstood the question? |
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Of course society can affect how we view males and females, just like everything else. Here's a really simple, basic one. Pink is a "feminine colour". On loads of different products, just by changing the colour to pink, it's now a "female version". I'm sure you must've seen it around, from toys, to bathrooms products, to things as ridiculous as glue sticks. Just look at the genders on this site, pink is for girls, blue is for boys. So, does this mean that, biologically, females prefer pink? Or that socialisation has taught us that pink is a feminine colour? There doesn't even seem to be any advantage to anyone over this stereotype o.o Only that it can help marketing. If males like pink then it seems to be something to be made fun of >_> And everyone knows not all girls like pink, so it seems to be an odd stereotype to have, anyway. Quote:
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I always felt myself not fitting the majority of female 'gender roles'. I've always been a tomboy 'cause when I was little my younger brothers were my only close companions, and all the girls at school were little rich brats with their cliques and wanted nothing to do with me. Due to that I feel more comfortable befriending guys than girls. I guess I'm a bit biased myself about women's behavior in friendships versus men's and can't really understand or relate to a lot of stereotypical female behaviors. I also seem to delight all my guy friends (and my boyfriend) by defying the female roles and stereotypes but still being unquestionably feminine X3
I don't have to be a shoe-hoarding, makeup-caking, glued-to-the-cell-phone, walking stereotype, and frankly I don't know anyone who likes people to be cookie-cutter things like that. It sure is boring and superficial. Everybody has at least something about them that sets them apart; it's why we're humans and not some factory-produced product dreamed up by the media. I find that yes, as time passes more emphasis is being put on individuality and less on gender roles. I think it's awesome and makes people focus more on liking someone for who they are rather than what mold they fit, and makes it more possible to form deeper, stronger bonds with one another. After all, aren't quirks, differences, and deviations from 'the norm' what make life and people interesting? |
Part of what I hate is the part about gender roles where girls can act perfectly boyish and not be ostracized nearly as bad as a guy would be for being feminine. Seriously. If you take a close look at how some people treat gay guys who are just naturally feminine, you'll see that they get picked on far more than a girl would for being boyish and acting/dressing like a man. Seriously, it feels so unfair, especially for guys like me who WANT to try feminine things, but simply cannot out of fear that we'll be harassed if we do.
As Kinarii said, I feel like I shouldn't have to be a typical guy, who likes sports, football and other macho things. Who says I have to let the stereotypes define who I am? Who I am is based upon all of those whom I adore, respect, and enjoy. I learn from everyone, not just guys. |
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This tends to be the case at younger years, rather than adult years. Well from what I've noticed, anyway. I don't let stereotypes define who I am, but a lot of the things I do are indeed what stereotypical males would do.
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@Pachy: Yeah, some of my male friends like what might be considered 'girly' stuff but they're still dudes just the same. Real friends don't judge, and if you've got some of those, that's all that really matters, eh? |
I think that gender roles are more prominent at younger ages.
At young ages, you are learning, and socially and often induced by family, you'll be introduced to the stereotypes and as a free mind without much thought to it, will most likely attach yourself (usually the one that is your physical gender) to it and learn to be "that gender" gender role wise. But this isn't solely a social movement in one's life. Hormones and other physical traits about each gender will most likely push you to one path as well, explaining the stereotypes of each role beyond physical traits of the adults of each gender. Soon enough, after you've learned your gender growing up (maybe even learned the other some should you have been pressured towards yours) you'll come to your independence phase come adolescence and find the area of the spectrum that fits you best. Though society has a tendency to hate things that are different than them, and to go too far on the other side of the spectrum will often be frowned upon, and deters too much movement. Adolescence is also a time of finding belonging, and that factors into the implications of the before mentioned society's status. Adulthood usually makes people less caring of belonging beyond their family, friends, and possibly community (town, neighborhood, country, etc.) rather than society in general. With that in mind, it'll free up the ability to be whoever you are. Though, there are exceptions of course. |
Gender roles have existed since the dawn of the human race and shall continue on until the day our species is extinct.
HOWEVER, we need to understand the difference between cultural gender roles(formative) and real gender roles. Cultural gender roles are laughable constructs fabricated by society for a number of reasons but most without any actual basis in reality. The only ground they can claim as foundation is that of real, true gender roles, the roles determined before we were even born. However, these things are separate. Take me for example. I am a twenty-one year old male in the United States. I enjoy video games, played High School football and baseball, and generally enjoy most things that society has deemed acceptable. However, give me the choice of skirts or jeans and it isn't a contest-I prefer skirts. I also prefer most female clothing, something which breaks cultural gender roles. However, it does not have any baring on the actual gender role I was assigned, and as such, has no effective rebuttal in the discussion of gender role. |
I hate stereotypes. I never really fit in with other girls; most of my friends are guys. Although, these days, I dress and try to act feminine. I figure I can sacrifice personal expression for social harmony. It's really not that bad. My close friends know what I'm really like.
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Without gender roles, I do think the world would be better. However, I also think that I'm in the minority with regards to this sentiment. Legally there has been a lot of progress, though socially I think it will always be a problem. But that can be said for basically any form of discrimination against a specific group of people. :/ |
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There's way too much angst in wishing the death of gender roles. Some of them are completely valid. Some, however, are believed to still be gender roles even after they're no longer the norm for the gender in question. That's a fallacy. I dare say gender roles are part of individuality, and it would be nothing but censorship to attempt to destroy them. The are after all, just research and statistics. Bla bla bla Girls n' Boys are not equal and this is a good thing. TL;DR Gender roles don't hurt people. People who use gender roles incorrectly hurt people. |
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I enjoy my feminism and use it to my advantage. When I fish, I don't have to bait my hook, because I'm girly :3
On the other hand, I don't carry a purse and like working on cars. |
Gender in my mind is just a word to describe the anatomy of a person. It really can't be used when talking about a persons personality though.
For example i'm a male, but at the same time I tend to be more feminine when it comes to certain things. |
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@Yellow: I agree with that whole post there.
@Pachy and anyone else in his situation: I forgot to mention. For straight guys, I think it's good to have a feminine side, too. From what I know of chicks, even tomboys like myself like a guy not to be totally macho, but to have a bit of both sides. We think it's adorable when a guy likes something we like, just as much as we might like a guy to be 'manly'. Personally I can't stand overly-macho football-jock-gun-enthusiast types. Though, there are chicks that like that stuff too, so no matter what gender you are or where on the spectrum you are, there are others like you, and if people pick on you for it then they can just buzz off. They're not worth it. |
Gender Stereotypes
Here's a good discussion point, how many of you have had to tolerate others expecting you to do something which conforms to the norms of your gender (Physical) when the exact thing you're pressured to do is just not within your character? Do you think that the current stereotypes and standards are fair? Discuss them here, but keep it civil and try not to spam the thread up with debates...if it gets heated, Chibi gets crankeh. o.o
Personally I don't think they're entirely fair. Most gender based expectations need to take second seat to the character of the person. Not all men feel like they have to wear drab colors all the time, nor do all girls feel the need to dress up and be girly all the time. The perplexing thing is that girls can act quite boyish, and no one bats an eye. A guy goes feminine and people either harass him, assume he's gay or generally dislike the person. It seems kinda unfair if ya know what I mean. If you're going to post hateful things, you will regret them. Please be civil and be extremely careful not to insult others when replying to their side of the debate. |
Me being gay, people often think I am more feminine. When really, I am quite masculine, or what people consider to be masculine. However I do not see it that way. I think..I am just me. People will act how they feel. A boy acting like what society classifies as "feminine" isn't really a boy acting feminine in my eyes. It's a boy acting like himself. The same goes for all. Sure, I have so-called masculine qualities, but I have just as many feminine qualities that people would laugh at me for, but really I don't care, because they make me happy.
I do not think the current standards or stereotypes are fair. But I do understand them. Here is a perfect double standards regarding gender: A father is worried about his daughter and boys, but not his son and girls. This is because he thinks the daughter is weaker than the son. The thought is completely unintentional, but it's because of societies views on gender-roles and attributes. And Pachy brought up a very good point. A girl who acts like a guy is perfectly okay. You know why? Society thinks it's good to be male. But when a guy acts like a girl, it's shunned because society thinks it should be shameful to be female. Again, these thoughts are unintentional, but they are there. That's just how the world's collective social spectrum is. I don't agree with any of these thoughts that I have noticed, and have read about from other people. I think everyone is equal, I never really understood gender roles in society. Why is it shameful to be a woman? It's not. So why do some people act that way? :| Oh no, slightly different organs! I hope I worded this right to get my message across. @[email protected] I don't want to offend anyone because I was stupid and worded something strange! |
I'm a female and my family expects me to be girly and feminine, but I'm not. I have very low self esteem from all the harassment and bullying I've been through in my life, and I blame most of it on gender stereotypes. I am a "bull dyke" even though I am not a lesbian. It's very humiliating and I don't think I'll ever find that "special someone" because of it.
Also hi, I registered this account over five years ago and never used it. :) |
Well, there are these online college commericals, and it tells girls to do something like go grab slippers. (I forget.) But then she says, "Guys, cover up." I found that to be a somewhat insulting stereotype. Also, girls can hug other girls, hold their hands, call them cute etc... but if a guy does basically anything(bar maybe the hug in some circumstances) he is labeled gay/a weirdo. /sigh.
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The assumption that as a male I watch sports fanatically and religiously (let alone at all, which I don't). At family gatherings I don't really have anything to talk about with my male family members nor can I answer even their apparently simple questions.
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I think that nobody really care about me. when i told them that i was older. when i was put down like a dog on another forum.
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I find it prevalent that my career choice (film production and editing) has a lot less females that it should have because of the assumption that the filmmaking industry has always been a man's game.
In reality, the few females in my porduction and editing classes are usually the best. |
I find it stupid that when guys make nasty jokes about their genitals, it's fine, but if girl jokes around about sex, she's looked at awkwardly and the joke isn't even considered humorous. It's hard for girls to even be considered funny because of that situation.
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I think the entire bloody thing is stupid. I'm a girl, I'm bisexual, and I dress and act like a guy. If I make a sex joke I just get a dirty look, but if a guy makes the same joke, it's hilarious. But meh, I couldn't care less.
Gender stereotypes are just stupid. It annoys me even more that it's fine for a girl to be bisexual, or a lesbian (most the time), but if a guy is gay it's disgusting... and I can go out in shirts, boots and jeans, but if a guy goes out in what would be determined as 'girls clothing' he'd probably get beaten up and verbally abused. Well. I don't care what you do, and what you say, and how you act. I don't look at gender, it's pointless for everything other than making kids. |
Personally, I use gender stereotypes, but those stereotypes are mostly stereotypes that I've come to a conclusion to myself. Gender stereotypes in regard to hobbies and such are mostly outdated at this point, but some of the simpler stereotypes stay the same.
So yes, I do use gender stereotypes up to the points where I actually get to know said person, in which I accommodate topics with that person to within their interests. |
Ohgosh, this discussion. xD; My family is pretty hardcore into gender stereotypes, or at least the belief that you should want to look or act a certain way 'because you're a girl' or 'because you're a guy'. & then there's me, who hates them. I believe everyone has a right to be themselves, no matter what or who that happens to be. For example, thinking a guy should want to go kick the heck outta other guys, or play hardcore sports, and hate chick flicks just because they're a guy. Or with girls, I suppose it would be "Shouldn't she be wearing make-up? She's 17/ 18/ what-have-you now!", and things similar to that, and it always pisses me off when my mom says things of that nature.
I know guys who wish they were girls, or just do girly things, and prefer it that way. Likewise, I know girls who would rather not be girls at all, or are super tomboyish. & They're some of the most awesome people I know, despite not sticking to gender-related norms, and all that. :/ |
My family is also very stereotypical, they don't like girls who act a little bit like guys, or guys that act a little like girls. They are against homosexuals, which I think is wrong. They would always comment on someones sexuality or how the act or dress when they see it. Although in a different language of course so no one could understand them.
My sister brought her gay friend over once and my parents flipped out. I always tell them theres nothing wrong with homosexuals and that they aren't bad people, but they never listen to a word I say. Mainly because my grandma is very religious and taught them to live life normally or something like that. Every time my family gathers they always have a main topic they talk about. Kind of like gossiping, they sometimes talk about certain people, even their own family remember when they are not around. I find it very wrong and I try to stop it whenever I see it. Sorry if I went a bit offtopic >< |
Not really, but sometimes I'm seen as weird because I like cute things. It doesn't really bother me, though.
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This is generally a societal thing. Gender is very strange, I completely agree with the title. What we make of gender is generally reinforced by stereotypes and upbringing / traditional gender roles. I think we've been progressing well in acceptance that gender isn't the defining part of a person's identity, although more complex concepts like "gender != sex" are a long way yet, if ever (especially for more conservative people). However, that's generally for women acting like a man is expected to, though it'll still get you labelled a butch. Men who act feminine are generally treated worse in my experience. I have seen and heard some absolutely horrible, ignorant things aimed at women too.
One problem is that for most people, gender is intrinsically tied with biological sex and sexual preference. There's this belief that a relationship is made up of a man and a woman at the heart, and someone must fulfill the role (even in a lesbian relationship, it's stereotyped as butch x femme..) I know this is getting a bit tangential, but as a bisexual girl, I often see other women identify as butch, femme, etc. If anything this is just a label to describe types of behaviour. It's so silly to me that a woman isn't "feminine" because she cuts her hair short, wears man clothes, and is assertive. And yet even in the lesbian community she is categorised as "butch", even if she is very much a woman, and proud to be a woman, and happy with her femininity. In the end, it's just a commonly accepted matter of semantics. I think it's damaging, but it's pretty much inevitable for now. |
Should any type of steryotypical roles or ideas exist at all?
no. Do they exist? Yes. :C Now why is that? ....I- I don't know? I mean, I don't see a need for it. Oh, you don't see a need for it? You know why that is? I dunno, why? BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT STUPID. It's outwardly ridiculous (in a bad way :D) about how much people go around and label people about how they should act, do, and be interested in. Because thier rather insecure about themselves, they grew up in a family that brainwashed them into thinking this way, or they're stupid all on thier own. The only difference I see in men and women is thier body structure. Sure, I find myself being more engaged in more male-orientated activites, but that's because I'm me. I'm not feminine. People should look at the person for them just being themselves, instead of a freak of nature. I mean, girls can be more of a dominant partner while guys can be submissive partners sometimes, it all depends on the person. Not everything follows the social grind of normality, in fact, many things don't BECAUSE WE'RE ALL DIFFERENT. It's just that most of society frowns upon it, because they can't handle "different." I'm proud to be "wierd," because it means I'm an individual, and not dime a dozen. Gender should never matter. Neither should race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, where you live, etc. |
I can pretty much agree with the majority viewpoint in this thread. Gender roles exist. They're not necessarily bad things. Being ridiculed for not fitting into your biological gender role is lame.
I'm just amazed at the amount of passion that most of you guys have over this issue. I was a boy born and raised in a politically accepting environment (in Texas no less...talk about defying stereotypes) and I eventually embraced a generally masculine gender role. I've had values instilled into me from a young age (by my dad...a staunch Republican no less) to judge people solely on their character, not on any labels I perceive them having, so it was...interesting reading these stories from people who have genuinely had to face such hardships in their life. |
Personally I find many of the 'harmless' male stereotypes annoying. People ask me to do heavy lifting or physically demanding jobs/favours instead of a girl simply because I'm male and therefore, should be stronger. Additionally, the assumption that all guys should like sports is ridiculous, but I'm faced with it all the time. I really don't like sports, I don't like playing then and I don't like watching them, yet people find this weird and really it gives me nothing to talk about with most other guys...no wonder most of my friends are female.
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Yeah, I'm trans, and I want to be a girl. And even if I'm trying to go into a different gender role, I'm not going to follow it. Oh wait, I don't even believe in gender. To me, gender is what one really is (sex is the physical indicator). Or something. I don't really care. I am who I am, and if you don't like it, tough. "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Theodor Geisel One of my favorite quotes right there. |
Yeah, there are waaay too many stereotypes.
And it's really weird, because: 1.I'm the only girl that doesn't wear make-up 2.I still am better than all the boys at running 3.I wear jerseys and soccer shorts 4.I like war games Kinda creepy, isn't it? I'm the ultimate tomboy. But often when I go on forums and don't say if I'm boy or girl, people always refer to me as a "He". Hmm. SometimesI wish I was a boy, too, because everyone keeps expecting me to like Volleyball over everything, love pink, etc. And, really, only a FEW girls are like that! Grrr.... |
Honestly, I feel that if society could be educated in a way that defines gender as the sex of the character and nothing more. Then we could further expand upon the idea by saying that girls don't need to be girly, and boys don't need to be boyish.
That being said, I never did feel as if the stereotypes themselves were completely flawed. They're just enforced improperly. I believe it's been found that being Female is the default gender of the human body, and you don't become male unless you inherited the Y chromosome from your father, which is left largely up to chance...and the rules of genetics. |
That is true. But that only applies to the physical part; mentally, it can still different.
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I just read the title and not the discussion, but I think the origins of gender is kind of strange. If we came from single-celled organisms which are asexual, at what point was it more efficient for there to be 2 different genders needed to reproduce physically?
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That's the you've been raised, now move on and, should you have kids, raise them as you please, without gender stereotypes. |
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I think that the social roles that exist all come from sensible causes, such as the idea (that's being destroyed now) that women should be at home with the children... why did that develop? Because the man would have been out hunting and the babies needed looking after or protecting. Perfectly reasonable at that time, but now it's a belief that is no longer valid, as we have other people to look after our children and we have other jobs that mean we can only work when they're at school for example.
Other views like 'I won't hit a girl' are ones that I still find valid - girls might playfight with brothers or cousins or whatever, but on the whole, if a male hits a girl in a way that hurts her, it will make a big impact to her, physically and mentally. Physically, women are weaker than men and because most of us don't do the whole rough-and-tumble thing as kids, we bruise easier and are generally hurt easier. Mentally, we see the male hitting us as a sign that we did something wrong or that we're inferior, which I would guess is different from how males take it. Obviously I'm speaking generally about what I've witnessed and stuff, and obviously there are exceptions (female wrestlers etc), and I'm only really talking about the developed world, not about the places where genders are still separated or treated very differently. I wouldn't say gender roles are taking away our individuality, I actually think we're coming into an age of time where individuality is the most important thing in our society. I think that definitely, certain gender roles no longer serve the purpose they used to and, along with certain gender stereotypes (girls wear pink, boys play with action figures etc), they should be ignored and removed from society. By the same means, I don't think they should all be removed, some of them are there for reasons, and as many people have stated before men and women are different, which inevitably means they should be treated slightly differently and expected to do slightly different things. I hope our society changes so that instead of people doing what they're expected to do, they do what they want to do, in all areas. I don't think old expectations should restrict people from doing specific jobs or fulfilling specific roles in the family because of their genders. |
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Well, there are times when I fail to notice gender, probably because most individuals now don't seem to fit into any stereotype (and of course, gender stereotypes), so I tend to forget that they even have a sex (it's a little hard to explain. It's like I see their essence as a human being more... okay, creepy.).
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It has been proven, that when a woman has a boy in her womb, it treats the boy as a foreign object, and send antibodies that makes the baby more feminine, causing its gender to be somewhat altered. So there is no 100% boy. But what happens is if the baby has an older brother, then, the body gets used to the foreign object and knows what to do, and the women sends MORE antibodies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PooEhBxh0NY |
The whole issue seems sort of strange to me. I guess it's sort of hard to find overarching gender features and roles when you simply want to look at people as individuals.
I'm a guy, yeah. Do I like feminine stuff? I don't know. Do I like masculine stuff? I don't know. It's sort of hard for me to find the blurry lines that divide people eternally when common bonds are so much more delightful. |
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Perhaps the only part of the fetus that it's attacking are cells which secrete male hormones or cells related to reproduction. Of course since the fetus does possess it's own immune system after a certain point, it may be able to fend the antibodies off long enough to develop them properly. I'm not a doctor so I don't really know what the antibodies and antigens are attacking exactly. Perhaps you could research that?
To be honest I'm the second male child that my mother had, she lost the first about halfway through the pregnancy, but that's training enough for any immune system I'd say. Not to mention that I've always had feelings for guys too, so yeah. I'm bisexual. (Though I try to avoid male relationships when it's possible, but it is sometimes hard to do if the one I like is gay or bi himself.) |
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Maybe it's a necessary part of development though? This is something I want to look into now, among other things. |
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EDIT: Info! It could also not be a physical change, because people who have grown up with non-biological older brother, also turn up gay sometimes because of a psycological change in them, I think it imposes on people telling the boys what it good and what is bad for them. |
Hell, I was the second son, and now I'm on my way to becoming the first daughter. That may say something.
That, and I am built quite femininely. Maybe it was the extra 3 weeks I was in the womb. ;) |
I haven't really looked into this stuff much, but I did learn one thing about it which may be one reason why the fetus is attacked by antibodies. Have any of you heard how if you put a different type of blood in a persons body (Like A positive, AB negative, etc.) then it rejects it. Well if the fetus has a different blood type than the mother, then the mothers body must try to reject it since the blood stream is connected.
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OT: It also goes with Rh positive and Rh negative. When you're pregnant and your Rh factor is negative and the father is positive [for example], you need an injection to prevent the rejection of the fetus. So even if you're compatible blood-type wise, your Rh factor can determine if your body will say "GTFO foreign object" or not. |
Screw the rules. Do what you want. Hell, I'd rather stay at home taking care of kids then have some monkey-suit job. I also think leather is sexy and like the colour purple.
Just have fun. You only live once. Quote:
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Gender stereotypes are annoying and frustrating at times when you come across someone who can't see it any other way. I like to go by the saying, "Arguing with a fool proves there are two." So I just carry on and do whatever I feel like.
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What do you mean trying? We do. Mostly. Their are so few women in few of counrtries. Chile and Germany. That's all I can think of.
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