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Melody July 12th, 2010 7:25 PM

Part of what I hate is the part about gender roles where girls can act perfectly boyish and not be ostracized nearly as bad as a guy would be for being feminine. Seriously. If you take a close look at how some people treat gay guys who are just naturally feminine, you'll see that they get picked on far more than a girl would for being boyish and acting/dressing like a man. Seriously, it feels so unfair, especially for guys like me who WANT to try feminine things, but simply cannot out of fear that we'll be harassed if we do.

As Kinarii said, I feel like I shouldn't have to be a typical guy, who likes sports, football and other macho things. Who says I have to let the stereotypes define who I am? Who I am is based upon all of those whom I adore, respect, and enjoy. I learn from everyone, not just guys.

poopnoodle July 12th, 2010 8:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorah (Post 5961929)
That's a pretty strong opinion. Why do you think this? You're on a Pokemon forum, so I presume that you like Pokemon, which is considered masculine. But the view that video games are for males hasn't actually stopped you from playing the games, or at least from joining the forum. If there were any reason for that, it would most probably be because it's viewed as childish.

growing up in a small, conservative town where girls are supposed to behave a certain way, appear a certain way, and the boys believe girls are to submit to them. i've always been sort of outcasted for my more liberal and unconventional behavior and views, so that's why i feel a bit more strongly than others about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinarii

I find that yes, as time passes more emphasis is being put on individuality and less on gender roles. I think it's awesome and makes people focus more on liking someone for who they are rather than what mold they fit, and makes it more possible to form deeper, stronger bonds with one another. After all, aren't quirks, differences, and deviations from 'the norm' what make life and people interesting?

i agree, and for that i'm learning to appreciate generalizations. without social "norms" i suppose we wouldn't discover people who explore beyond the norms, and people-watching wouldn't be as fun xD it's just not cool when people are harassed for expressing themselves in unconventional ways u___u i just wish people were a little more accepting

Guillermo July 12th, 2010 8:13 PM

This tends to be the case at younger years, rather than adult years. Well from what I've noticed, anyway. I don't let stereotypes define who I am, but a lot of the things I do are indeed what stereotypical males would do.

Amaruuk July 12th, 2010 8:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillermo (Post 5963850)
This tends to be the case at younger years, rather than adult years. Well from what I've noticed, anyway. I don't let stereotypes define who I am, but a lot of the things I do are indeed what stereotypical males would do.

Yeah, kids and teens can be cruel little buggers to each other for the most absurd reasons (though adults can be just as irrational). I have found that many people outgrow those ways or learn/figure out how foolish they were.

@Pachy: Yeah, some of my male friends like what might be considered 'girly' stuff but they're still dudes just the same. Real friends don't judge, and if you've got some of those, that's all that really matters, eh?

lx_theo July 12th, 2010 8:43 PM

I think that gender roles are more prominent at younger ages.

At young ages, you are learning, and socially and often induced by family, you'll be introduced to the stereotypes and as a free mind without much thought to it, will most likely attach yourself (usually the one that is your physical gender) to it and learn to be "that gender" gender role wise. But this isn't solely a social movement in one's life. Hormones and other physical traits about each gender will most likely push you to one path as well, explaining the stereotypes of each role beyond physical traits of the adults of each gender.

Soon enough, after you've learned your gender growing up (maybe even learned the other some should you have been pressured towards yours) you'll come to your independence phase come adolescence and find the area of the spectrum that fits you best. Though society has a tendency to hate things that are different than them, and to go too far on the other side of the spectrum will often be frowned upon, and deters too much movement. Adolescence is also a time of finding belonging, and that factors into the implications of the before mentioned society's status.

Adulthood usually makes people less caring of belonging beyond their family, friends, and possibly community (town, neighborhood, country, etc.) rather than society in general. With that in mind, it'll free up the ability to be whoever you are. Though, there are exceptions of course.

TrainerShane July 13th, 2010 12:32 AM

Gender roles have existed since the dawn of the human race and shall continue on until the day our species is extinct.

HOWEVER, we need to understand the difference between cultural gender roles(formative) and real gender roles. Cultural gender roles are laughable constructs fabricated by society for a number of reasons but most without any actual basis in reality. The only ground they can claim as foundation is that of real, true gender roles, the roles determined before we were even born. However, these things are separate.

Take me for example. I am a twenty-one year old male in the United States. I enjoy video games, played High School football and baseball, and generally enjoy most things that society has deemed acceptable. However, give me the choice of skirts or jeans and it isn't a contest-I prefer skirts. I also prefer most female clothing, something which breaks cultural gender roles.

However, it does not have any baring on the actual gender role I was assigned, and as such, has no effective rebuttal in the discussion of gender role.

Fluorii July 14th, 2010 4:05 AM

I hate stereotypes. I never really fit in with other girls; most of my friends are guys. Although, these days, I dress and try to act feminine. I figure I can sacrifice personal expression for social harmony. It's really not that bad. My close friends know what I'm really like.

Alakazam17 July 14th, 2010 2:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pachy (Post 5963716)
Part of what I hate is the part about gender roles where girls can act perfectly boyish and not be ostracized nearly as bad as a guy would be for being feminine. Seriously. If you take a close look at how some people treat gay guys who are just naturally feminine, you'll see that they get picked on far more than a girl would for being boyish and acting/dressing like a man. Seriously, it feels so unfair, especially for guys like me who WANT to try feminine things, but simply cannot out of fear that we'll be harassed if we do.

As Kinarii said, I feel like I shouldn't have to be a typical guy, who likes sports, football and other macho things. Who says I have to let the stereotypes define who I am? Who I am is based upon all of those whom I adore, respect, and enjoy. I learn from everyone, not just guys.

That sounds quite like my situation. I've associated more with girls all my life, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Though I've always tried to hide it, thinking about the harassment I know I will get if I don't. I decided on my own when I was little that I would never tell anyone about it, but that all seemed to crack up last year when I told my four best friends, and earlier this month when I told my little brother. XD

Without gender roles, I do think the world would be better. However, I also think that I'm in the minority with regards to this sentiment. Legally there has been a lot of progress, though socially I think it will always be a problem. But that can be said for basically any form of discrimination against a specific group of people. :/

Dawn July 14th, 2010 2:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alakazam17 (Post 5969756)
Without gender roles, I do think the world would be better.

"In a perfect world..."

There's way too much angst in wishing the death of gender roles. Some of them are completely valid. Some, however, are believed to still be gender roles even after they're no longer the norm for the gender in question. That's a fallacy.

I dare say gender roles are part of individuality, and it would be nothing but censorship to attempt to destroy them. The are after all, just research and statistics.

Bla bla bla Girls n' Boys are not equal and this is a good thing.

TL;DR
Gender roles don't hurt people. People who use gender roles incorrectly hurt people.

Alakazam17 July 14th, 2010 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PkMnTrainer Yellow (Post 5969900)
"In a perfect world..."

Well, I thought that bit was implied. The world would be better without prisons as well, "in a perfect world" where crime doesn't exist.

Quote:

There's way too much angst in wishing the death of gender roles. Some of them are completely valid.
I don't wish the death of them entirely; in fact, I agree that some of them are valid. Little boys most often prefer to play with trucks, and little girls often prefer to play with dolls. That's not something that is imposed on them in most cases. What I do wish the death of is the notion that a boy playing with dolls or a girl playing with trucks is a bad thing. They break away from the norm, but so what?

Quote:

Some, however, are believed to still be gender roles even after they're no longer the norm for the gender in question. That's a fallacy.
I'd have used the term 'ignorance,' but whatever.

Quote:

I dare say gender roles are part of individuality, and it would be nothing but censorship to attempt to destroy them. The are after all, just research and statistics.
I started thinking I agreed with you, but now I'm not too sure. So, for instance, if a male started living under a female's "gender role," would you consider that destruction or not? If yes, I don't agree with you. XD

Quote:

Bla bla bla Girls n' Boys are not equal and this is a good thing.
Definitely agree here. =P

Quote:

Gender roles don't hurt people. People who use gender roles incorrectly hurt people.
And here.

Teara July 14th, 2010 3:19 PM

I enjoy my feminism and use it to my advantage. When I fish, I don't have to bait my hook, because I'm girly :3
On the other hand, I don't carry a purse and like working on cars.

§acred†Beo! July 15th, 2010 12:49 PM

Gender in my mind is just a word to describe the anatomy of a person. It really can't be used when talking about a persons personality though.

For example i'm a male, but at the same time I tend to be more feminine when it comes to certain things.

lx_theo July 15th, 2010 3:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by §acred†Beo! (Post 5972244)
Gender in my mind is just a word to describe the anatomy of a person. It really can't be used when talking about a persons personality though.

For example i'm a male, but at the same time I tend to be more feminine when it comes to certain things.

Nah, technically sex is what refers to biological status and gender is the mental status.

Amaruuk July 18th, 2010 9:24 AM

@Yellow: I agree with that whole post there.

@Pachy and anyone else in his situation: I forgot to mention. For straight guys, I think it's good to have a feminine side, too. From what I know of chicks, even tomboys like myself like a guy not to be totally macho, but to have a bit of both sides. We think it's adorable when a guy likes something we like, just as much as we might like a guy to be 'manly'. Personally I can't stand overly-macho football-jock-gun-enthusiast types. Though, there are chicks that like that stuff too, so no matter what gender you are or where on the spectrum you are, there are others like you, and if people pick on you for it then they can just buzz off. They're not worth it.

Melody August 11th, 2010 7:27 PM

Gender Stereotypes
 
Here's a good discussion point, how many of you have had to tolerate others expecting you to do something which conforms to the norms of your gender (Physical) when the exact thing you're pressured to do is just not within your character? Do you think that the current stereotypes and standards are fair? Discuss them here, but keep it civil and try not to spam the thread up with debates...if it gets heated, Chibi gets crankeh. o.o

Personally I don't think they're entirely fair. Most gender based expectations need to take second seat to the character of the person. Not all men feel like they have to wear drab colors all the time, nor do all girls feel the need to dress up and be girly all the time.

The perplexing thing is that girls can act quite boyish, and no one bats an eye. A guy goes feminine and people either harass him, assume he's gay or generally dislike the person. It seems kinda unfair if ya know what I mean.

If you're going to post hateful things, you will regret them. Please be civil and be extremely careful not to insult others when replying to their side of the debate.

Surmonter August 11th, 2010 8:30 PM

Me being gay, people often think I am more feminine. When really, I am quite masculine, or what people consider to be masculine. However I do not see it that way. I think..I am just me. People will act how they feel. A boy acting like what society classifies as "feminine" isn't really a boy acting feminine in my eyes. It's a boy acting like himself. The same goes for all. Sure, I have so-called masculine qualities, but I have just as many feminine qualities that people would laugh at me for, but really I don't care, because they make me happy.

I do not think the current standards or stereotypes are fair. But I do understand them.

Here is a perfect double standards regarding gender:

A father is worried about his daughter and boys, but not his son and girls. This is because he thinks the daughter is weaker than the son. The thought is completely unintentional, but it's because of societies views on gender-roles and attributes.

And Pachy brought up a very good point. A girl who acts like a guy is perfectly okay. You know why? Society thinks it's good to be male. But when a guy acts like a girl, it's shunned because society thinks it should be shameful to be female.

Again, these thoughts are unintentional, but they are there. That's just how the world's collective social spectrum is.

I don't agree with any of these thoughts that I have noticed, and have read about from other people. I think everyone is equal, I never really understood gender roles in society. Why is it shameful to be a woman? It's not. So why do some people act that way? :| Oh no, slightly different organs!

I hope I worded this right to get my message across. @[email protected] I don't want to offend anyone because I was stupid and worded something strange!

Pikachu_Charmander4eva August 12th, 2010 1:25 AM

I'm a female and my family expects me to be girly and feminine, but I'm not. I have very low self esteem from all the harassment and bullying I've been through in my life, and I blame most of it on gender stereotypes. I am a "bull dyke" even though I am not a lesbian. It's very humiliating and I don't think I'll ever find that "special someone" because of it.

Also hi, I registered this account over five years ago and never used it. :)

ANARCHit3cht August 12th, 2010 1:43 AM

Well, there are these online college commericals, and it tells girls to do something like go grab slippers. (I forget.) But then she says, "Guys, cover up." I found that to be a somewhat insulting stereotype. Also, girls can hug other girls, hold their hands, call them cute etc... but if a guy does basically anything(bar maybe the hug in some circumstances) he is labeled gay/a weirdo. /sigh.

TRIFORCE89 August 12th, 2010 4:54 AM

The assumption that as a male I watch sports fanatically and religiously (let alone at all, which I don't). At family gatherings I don't really have anything to talk about with my male family members nor can I answer even their apparently simple questions.

crymomma August 12th, 2010 5:46 AM

I think that nobody really care about me. when i told them that i was older. when i was put down like a dog on another forum.

Executive Proton August 12th, 2010 8:03 AM

I find it prevalent that my career choice (film production and editing) has a lot less females that it should have because of the assumption that the filmmaking industry has always been a man's game.

In reality, the few females in my porduction and editing classes are usually the best.

Sydian August 12th, 2010 9:50 AM

I find it stupid that when guys make nasty jokes about their genitals, it's fine, but if girl jokes around about sex, she's looked at awkwardly and the joke isn't even considered humorous. It's hard for girls to even be considered funny because of that situation.

BareBones August 12th, 2010 4:45 PM

I think the entire bloody thing is stupid. I'm a girl, I'm bisexual, and I dress and act like a guy. If I make a sex joke I just get a dirty look, but if a guy makes the same joke, it's hilarious. But meh, I couldn't care less.

Gender stereotypes are just stupid. It annoys me even more that it's fine for a girl to be bisexual, or a lesbian (most the time), but if a guy is gay it's disgusting... and I can go out in shirts, boots and jeans, but if a guy goes out in what would be determined as 'girls clothing' he'd probably get beaten up and verbally abused.

Well. I don't care what you do, and what you say, and how you act. I don't look at gender, it's pointless for everything other than making kids.

digi-kun August 12th, 2010 4:57 PM

Personally, I use gender stereotypes, but those stereotypes are mostly stereotypes that I've come to a conclusion to myself. Gender stereotypes in regard to hobbies and such are mostly outdated at this point, but some of the simpler stereotypes stay the same.

So yes, I do use gender stereotypes up to the points where I actually get to know said person, in which I accommodate topics with that person to within their interests.

Taemin August 12th, 2010 5:07 PM

Ohgosh, this discussion. xD; My family is pretty hardcore into gender stereotypes, or at least the belief that you should want to look or act a certain way 'because you're a girl' or 'because you're a guy'. & then there's me, who hates them. I believe everyone has a right to be themselves, no matter what or who that happens to be. For example, thinking a guy should want to go kick the heck outta other guys, or play hardcore sports, and hate chick flicks just because they're a guy. Or with girls, I suppose it would be "Shouldn't she be wearing make-up? She's 17/ 18/ what-have-you now!", and things similar to that, and it always pisses me off when my mom says things of that nature.

I know guys who wish they were girls, or just do girly things, and prefer it that way. Likewise, I know girls who would rather not be girls at all, or are super tomboyish. & They're some of the most awesome people I know, despite not sticking to gender-related norms, and all that. :/


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