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Charizard★ August 12th, 2010 5:11 PM

My family is also very stereotypical, they don't like girls who act a little bit like guys, or guys that act a little like girls. They are against homosexuals, which I think is wrong. They would always comment on someones sexuality or how the act or dress when they see it. Although in a different language of course so no one could understand them.

My sister brought her gay friend over once and my parents flipped out. I always tell them theres nothing wrong with homosexuals and that they aren't bad people, but they never listen to a word I say. Mainly because my grandma is very religious and taught them to live life normally or something like that.

Every time my family gathers they always have a main topic they talk about. Kind of like gossiping, they sometimes talk about certain people, even their own family remember when they are not around. I find it very wrong and I try to stop it whenever I see it.

Sorry if I went a bit offtopic ><

twocows August 12th, 2010 5:18 PM

Not really, but sometimes I'm seen as weird because I like cute things. It doesn't really bother me, though.

Dawn August 12th, 2010 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alakazam17 (Post 5969973)
I started thinking I agreed with you, but now I'm not too sure. So, for instance, if a male started living under a female's "gender role," would you consider that destruction or not? If yes, I don't agree with you. XD

Eeerrrr... totally late answering this. I wouldn't consider that destruction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sydian (Post 6062199)
I find it stupid that when guys make nasty jokes about their genitals, it's fine, but if girl jokes around about sex, she's looked at awkwardly and the joke isn't even considered humorous. It's hard for girls to even be considered funny because of that situation.

I wouldn't call it hard. It's just different. Different humor is enjoyed. So what, y'know? I mean, do most girls where you live like those dirty jokes?


Quote:

Originally Posted by BareBones (Post 6063391)
I think the entire bloody thing is stupid. I'm a girl, I'm bisexual, and I dress and act like a guy. If I make a sex joke I just get a dirty look, but if a guy makes the same joke, it's hilarious. But meh, I couldn't care less.

Gender stereotypes are just stupid. It annoys me even more that it's fine for a girl to be bisexual, or a lesbian (most the time), but if a guy is gay it's disgusting... and I can go out in shirts, boots and jeans, but if a guy goes out in what would be determined as 'girls clothing' he'd probably get beaten up and verbally abused.

Well. I don't care what you do, and what you say, and how you act. I don't look at gender, it's pointless for everything other than making kids.

I'm bisexual too. I would under no circumstances identify myself as having a clear gender roll. I don't see why, even though you admit you don't care, you insist on bashing them. If you don't care, why don't you let nature do it's course instead of a pointless unnatural alternative?

Kylie-chan August 13th, 2010 4:27 AM

This is generally a societal thing. Gender is very strange, I completely agree with the title. What we make of gender is generally reinforced by stereotypes and upbringing / traditional gender roles. I think we've been progressing well in acceptance that gender isn't the defining part of a person's identity, although more complex concepts like "gender != sex" are a long way yet, if ever (especially for more conservative people). However, that's generally for women acting like a man is expected to, though it'll still get you labelled a butch. Men who act feminine are generally treated worse in my experience. I have seen and heard some absolutely horrible, ignorant things aimed at women too.

One problem is that for most people, gender is intrinsically tied with biological sex and sexual preference. There's this belief that a relationship is made up of a man and a woman at the heart, and someone must fulfill the role (even in a lesbian relationship, it's stereotyped as butch x femme..) I know this is getting a bit tangential, but as a bisexual girl, I often see other women identify as butch, femme, etc. If anything this is just a label to describe types of behaviour. It's so silly to me that a woman isn't "feminine" because she cuts her hair short, wears man clothes, and is assertive. And yet even in the lesbian community she is categorised as "butch", even if she is very much a woman, and proud to be a woman, and happy with her femininity.

In the end, it's just a commonly accepted matter of semantics. I think it's damaging, but it's pretty much inevitable for now.

Weatherman, Kiyoshi August 13th, 2010 5:25 AM

Should any type of steryotypical roles or ideas exist at all?

no.

Do they exist?

Yes. :C

Now why is that?

....I- I don't know? I mean, I don't see a need for it.

Oh, you don't see a need for it? You know why that is?

I dunno, why?

BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT STUPID.


It's outwardly ridiculous (in a bad way :D) about how much people go around and label people about how they should act, do, and be interested in.
Because thier rather insecure about themselves, they grew up in a family that brainwashed them into thinking this way, or they're stupid all on thier own.

The only difference I see in men and women is thier body structure.

Sure, I find myself being more engaged in more male-orientated activites, but that's because I'm me. I'm not feminine.

People should look at the person for them just being themselves, instead of a freak of nature.
I mean, girls can be more of a dominant partner while guys can be submissive partners sometimes, it all depends on the person.

Not everything follows the social grind of normality, in fact, many things don't BECAUSE WE'RE ALL DIFFERENT.
It's just that most of society frowns upon it, because they can't handle "different."

I'm proud to be "wierd," because it means I'm an individual, and not dime a dozen.

Gender should never matter. Neither should race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, where you live, etc.

Timbjerr August 19th, 2010 7:18 PM

I can pretty much agree with the majority viewpoint in this thread. Gender roles exist. They're not necessarily bad things. Being ridiculed for not fitting into your biological gender role is lame.

I'm just amazed at the amount of passion that most of you guys have over this issue. I was a boy born and raised in a politically accepting environment (in Texas no less...talk about defying stereotypes) and I eventually embraced a generally masculine gender role. I've had values instilled into me from a young age (by my dad...a staunch Republican no less) to judge people solely on their character, not on any labels I perceive them having, so it was...interesting reading these stories from people who have genuinely had to face such hardships in their life.

SonicThrust August 20th, 2010 8:03 AM

Personally I find many of the 'harmless' male stereotypes annoying. People ask me to do heavy lifting or physically demanding jobs/favours instead of a girl simply because I'm male and therefore, should be stronger. Additionally, the assumption that all guys should like sports is ridiculous, but I'm faced with it all the time. I really don't like sports, I don't like playing then and I don't like watching them, yet people find this weird and really it gives me nothing to talk about with most other guys...no wonder most of my friends are female.

Mirby August 20th, 2010 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew (Post 6063444)
I know guys who wish they were girls, or just do girly things, and prefer it that way. Likewise, I know girls who would rather not be girls at all, or are super tomboyish. & They're some of the most awesome people I know, despite not sticking to gender-related norms, and all that. :/

Gee, I can think of people that fit these roles perfectly... :P

Yeah, I'm trans, and I want to be a girl. And even if I'm trying to go into a different gender role, I'm not going to follow it.

Oh wait, I don't even believe in gender. To me, gender is what one really is (sex is the physical indicator). Or something. I don't really care. I am who I am, and if you don't like it, tough.

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Theodor Geisel

One of my favorite quotes right there.

Gardenia101 August 20th, 2010 12:53 PM

Yeah, there are waaay too many stereotypes.
And it's really weird, because:
1.I'm the only girl that doesn't wear make-up
2.I still am better than all the boys at running
3.I wear jerseys and soccer shorts
4.I like war games

Kinda creepy, isn't it? I'm the ultimate tomboy. But often when I go on forums and don't say if I'm boy or girl, people always refer to me as a "He". Hmm.

SometimesI wish I was a boy, too, because everyone keeps expecting me to like Volleyball over everything, love pink, etc. And, really, only a FEW girls are like that!

Grrr....

Melody August 20th, 2010 5:28 PM

Honestly, I feel that if society could be educated in a way that defines gender as the sex of the character and nothing more. Then we could further expand upon the idea by saying that girls don't need to be girly, and boys don't need to be boyish.

That being said, I never did feel as if the stereotypes themselves were completely flawed. They're just enforced improperly. I believe it's been found that being Female is the default gender of the human body, and you don't become male unless you inherited the Y chromosome from your father, which is left largely up to chance...and the rules of genetics.

Mirby August 20th, 2010 5:34 PM

That is true. But that only applies to the physical part; mentally, it can still different.

SIN1488 August 20th, 2010 6:11 PM

I just read the title and not the discussion, but I think the origins of gender is kind of strange. If we came from single-celled organisms which are asexual, at what point was it more efficient for there to be 2 different genders needed to reproduce physically?

Throat August 21st, 2010 3:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIN1488 (Post 6090415)
I just read the title and not the discussion, but I think the origins of gender is kind of strange. If we came from single-celled organisms which are asexual, at what point was it more efficient for there to be 2 different genders needed to reproduce physically?

Because there will be genetic variation which means there'll be many different genotypes.

That's the you've been raised, now move on and, should you have kids, raise them as you please, without gender stereotypes.

Legobricks August 23rd, 2010 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardenia101 (Post 6089695)
often when I go on forums and don't say if I'm boy or girl, people always refer to me as a "He". Hmm.

'He' is the just the default pronoun in English, since 'it' is only used to refer to objects (or, if used in reference to persons, only pejoratively). Males historically being dominant in society is, I presume, why it's not 'she'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIN1488 (Post 6090415)
I just read the title and not the discussion, but I think the origins of gender is kind of strange. If we came from single-celled organisms which are asexual, at what point was it more efficient for there to be 2 different genders needed to reproduce physically?

Edit: True I did miss the point, SIN1488.

Magik?! August 23rd, 2010 2:02 AM

I think that the social roles that exist all come from sensible causes, such as the idea (that's being destroyed now) that women should be at home with the children... why did that develop? Because the man would have been out hunting and the babies needed looking after or protecting. Perfectly reasonable at that time, but now it's a belief that is no longer valid, as we have other people to look after our children and we have other jobs that mean we can only work when they're at school for example.

Other views like 'I won't hit a girl' are ones that I still find valid - girls might playfight with brothers or cousins or whatever, but on the whole, if a male hits a girl in a way that hurts her, it will make a big impact to her, physically and mentally. Physically, women are weaker than men and because most of us don't do the whole rough-and-tumble thing as kids, we bruise easier and are generally hurt easier. Mentally, we see the male hitting us as a sign that we did something wrong or that we're inferior, which I would guess is different from how males take it.

Obviously I'm speaking generally about what I've witnessed and stuff, and obviously there are exceptions (female wrestlers etc), and I'm only really talking about the developed world, not about the places where genders are still separated or treated very differently.

I wouldn't say gender roles are taking away our individuality, I actually think we're coming into an age of time where individuality is the most important thing in our society. I think that definitely, certain gender roles no longer serve the purpose they used to and, along with certain gender stereotypes (girls wear pink, boys play with action figures etc), they should be ignored and removed from society. By the same means, I don't think they should all be removed, some of them are there for reasons, and as many people have stated before men and women are different, which inevitably means they should be treated slightly differently and expected to do slightly different things.

I hope our society changes so that instead of people doing what they're expected to do, they do what they want to do, in all areas. I don't think old expectations should restrict people from doing specific jobs or fulfilling specific roles in the family because of their genders.

Mirby August 23rd, 2010 2:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magik?! (Post 6096588)
~stuffz~

I'm not sure how to interpret that. On one hand, it sounds like you think that stereotypes are bad, but on the other you say they're good. I'm confused...

Sewzie August 23rd, 2010 6:31 AM

Well, there are times when I fail to notice gender, probably because most individuals now don't seem to fit into any stereotype (and of course, gender stereotypes), so I tend to forget that they even have a sex (it's a little hard to explain. It's like I see their essence as a human being more... okay, creepy.).

Bloo August 23rd, 2010 6:33 AM

It has been proven, that when a woman has a boy in her womb, it treats the boy as a foreign object, and send antibodies that makes the baby more feminine, causing its gender to be somewhat altered. So there is no 100% boy. But what happens is if the baby has an older brother, then, the body gets used to the foreign object and knows what to do, and the women sends MORE antibodies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PooEhBxh0NY

Murmansk August 23rd, 2010 8:32 AM

The whole issue seems sort of strange to me. I guess it's sort of hard to find overarching gender features and roles when you simply want to look at people as individuals.
I'm a guy, yeah. Do I like feminine stuff? I don't know. Do I like masculine stuff? I don't know. It's sort of hard for me to find the blurry lines that divide people eternally when common bonds are so much more delightful.

SIN1488 August 23rd, 2010 9:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlooMilk C. (Post 6096956)
It has been proven, that when a woman has a boy in her womb, it treats the boy as a foreign object, and send antibodies that makes the baby more feminine, causing its gender to be somewhat altered. So there is no 100% boy. But what happens is if the baby has an older brother, then, the body gets used to the foreign object and knows what to do, and the women sends MORE antibodies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PooEhBxh0NY

That's interesting, never heard of that one. But why would the antibodies try to change it, rather than just killing it like they do with smaller foreign bodies?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassino (Post 6096506)


Since we're multicellular and very complex even at that, it's impossible for us simply to divide.

You miss the point though, the question was how did we get to the point that we needed to split? Or, how did we go from being asexual organisms to ones having two sexes?

Bloo August 24th, 2010 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIN1488 (Post 6097254)
That's interesting, never heard of that one. But why would the antibodies try to change it, rather than just killing it like they do with smaller foreign bodies?

I think it is because We're able to fight it off. Though I have no idea.

Melody August 24th, 2010 2:35 PM

Perhaps the only part of the fetus that it's attacking are cells which secrete male hormones or cells related to reproduction. Of course since the fetus does possess it's own immune system after a certain point, it may be able to fend the antibodies off long enough to develop them properly. I'm not a doctor so I don't really know what the antibodies and antigens are attacking exactly. Perhaps you could research that?

To be honest I'm the second male child that my mother had, she lost the first about halfway through the pregnancy, but that's training enough for any immune system I'd say. Not to mention that I've always had feelings for guys too, so yeah. I'm bisexual. (Though I try to avoid male relationships when it's possible, but it is sometimes hard to do if the one I like is gay or bi himself.)

SIN1488 August 24th, 2010 3:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pachy (Post 6100580)
Perhaps the only part of the fetus that it's attacking are cells which secrete male hormones or cells related to reproduction. Of course since the fetus does possess it's own immune system after a certain point, it may be able to fend the antibodies off long enough to develop them properly. I'm not a doctor so I don't really know what the antibodies and antigens are attacking exactly.

All I know is that antibodies in humans attack bodies that it doesn't recognize. For example, if a bacteria got in your system, your immune system would try to fight it off. But some bacteria, like the helpful ones in your stomach, can stay in there without the immune system trying to fight it off. So that's why I find it weird that the body would even try to fight off something that it naturally produces. I mean, without getting into too much detail here, I don't think the body fights off foreign reproductive cells. And since the fetus is produced in a woman's body, why wouldn't the antibodies recognize that? Are they all like: "Yo! You don't belong in this hood, fetus!" :S

Maybe it's a necessary part of development though? This is something I want to look into now, among other things.

Bloo August 24th, 2010 3:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pachy (Post 6100580)
Perhaps the only part of the fetus that it's attacking are cells which secrete male hormones or cells related to reproduction. Of course since the fetus does possess it's own immune system after a certain point, it may be able to fend the antibodies off long enough to develop them properly. I'm not a doctor so I don't really know what the antibodies and antigens are attacking exactly. Perhaps you could research that?

To be honest I'm the second male child that my mother had, she lost the first about halfway through the pregnancy, but that's training enough for any immune system I'd say. Not to mention that I've always had feelings for guys too, so yeah. I'm bisexual. (Though I try to avoid male relationships when it's possible, but it is sometimes hard to do if the one I like is gay or bi himself.)

I have the same situation, but My older brother is alive. I'll look more up! I hope this ends up as an influential thread, so I can discover this more.
EDIT: Info!
It could also not be a physical change, because people who have grown up with non-biological older brother, also turn up gay sometimes because of a psycological change in them, I think it imposes on people telling the boys what it good and what is bad for them.

Mirby August 24th, 2010 3:39 PM

Hell, I was the second son, and now I'm on my way to becoming the first daughter. That may say something.

That, and I am built quite femininely. Maybe it was the extra 3 weeks I was in the womb. ;)


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