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-   -   5th Gen Encourage Ability (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=225412)

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 7:40 AM

Encourage Ability
 
So far we know of two pokemon with this ability:

Hihidaruma and Wooguru.

Hihidaruma is a pure fire type and Wooguru is a Flying/Normal type:


Encourage is an ability that raises the power of moves but removes their secondary effects. A secondary effect for a move is an effect that has a possibility of happening, like burn or paralysis. Basically Fire Punch would be much stronger but would never burn. Moves like Flare Blitz always cause recoil so the recoil would stay because its not secondary.

This ability affects moves that cause damage. Moves like Swords Dance and Agility that are status moves and ALWAYS raise a stat will still be usable.

What do you guys think about this ability?

Are you hoping the power increase is by 1.5x or 2x?

Would you use this ability? You would be basically trading status infliction for power.

Fire Punch = 75 Power
If Encourage was 1.25x = 93.75 Power
If Encourage was 1.25x + STAB = 140.625 Power
If Encourage was 1.5x = 112.5 Power
If Encourage was 1.5x + STAB = 168.75 Power (Increase of Power by 2.25x)

Flare Blitz/Brave Bird = 120 Power
If Encourage was 1.25x = 150 Power
If Encourage was 1.25x + STAB = 225 Power
If Encourage was 1.5x = 180 Power
If Encourage was 1.5x + STAB = 270 Power (Increase of Power by 2.25x)

NON STAB MOVES:

Rock Smash = 40 Power
If Encourage was 1.25x = 50 Power
If Encourage was 1.5x = 60 Power

Shock Wave (and all other never miss moves) = 60 Power
If Encourage was 1.25x = 75 Power
If Encourage was 1.5x = 90 Power

Even with Non STAB moves this ability would be pretty deadly. Rock Smash with a power of 60 even without the ability to drop defenses could be a problem early on in the game. It makes Rock Smash as strong as a move like Magical Leaf. It also makes never miss moves like Shock Wave and Faint Attack as strong as Aura Sphere.

If a Normal type Pokemon had the Encourage Ability and used Selfdestruct or Explosion:

Selfdestruct = 200 Power
If Encourage was 1.25x = 250 Power
If Encourage was 1.25x + STAB = 375 Power
If Encourage was 1.5x = 300 Power
If Encourage was 1.5x + STAB = 450 Power (Increase of power by 2.25x)

Even if a pokemon with Encourage used a non STAB Selfdestruct it would be stronger than Explosion!

Explosion = 250 Power
If Encourage was 1.25x = 312.5 Power
If Encourage was 1.25x + STAB = 468.75 Power
If Encourage was 1.5x = 375 Power
If Encourage was 1.5x + STAB = 562.5 Power (Increase of power by 2.25x)

Even if a pokemon with Encourage used a non STAB Explosion it would be a little under double of Selfdestruct's power! A STAB Encourage Explosion would make Explosion over 2 times as strong!

If Encourage increases power by 1.5x, it would make sense why you would drop the status infliction chance. If a STAB move is used with the Encourage ability it becomes stronger by 2.25x.

If Encourage raised power by more than 1.5x it would make STAB moves WAY too powerful.

In case you wanted to see all of the moves:
http://pokemondb.net/move/all

If the ability is limited to only secondary effect moves that still gives us tons of powerful attacks, and most of the electric and fire type moves.

Magmarizer July 11th, 2010 7:44 AM

This ability seems awsome. It would be devesting if it was super effective witha stab.

Azure-Supernova July 11th, 2010 7:45 AM

Yeah, with a 1.5 or 2x increase, that status effect might as well be discarded.

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 8:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure-Supernova (Post 5957855)
Yeah, with a 1.5 or 2x increase, that status effect might as well be discarded.

Odds are the opposing pokemon isn't going to survive!

Gregora July 11th, 2010 8:40 AM

1.5 is decent enough. But what's evil is that ability coupled with STAB plus the attack, say something like Free-Fall, which I think would be a flying type attack hitting something 2x effective and it all stacking... Just food for thought.

Mujahid July 11th, 2010 8:45 AM

Wooguru + encourage + Brave bird + STAB = RIP !!...

And if it has sky attack..*starts to imagine the carnage*...Gud god !!..that's one thing i'll never want to face

Azure-Supernova July 11th, 2010 8:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5957932)
Odds are the opposing pokemon isn't going to survive!

Exactly... especially if coupled with a STAB move... tack it onto a Pokémon with high enough speed and you could have a lethal weapon here... surely there has to be a bigger downside to this Ability... the loss of a status effect seems to minimal.

The idea of Paralysis or Burn or Poison is to hinder a Pokémon. If you can just 1hKO it then where's the need to hinder?

Gregora July 11th, 2010 8:47 AM

Good bye fighting, grass, and Bug types. Of course, there's also something known as stealth rock to keep the damage minimal.

tangvor July 11th, 2010 8:55 AM

Okay well here's the thing if it removes the secondary effect to cause more power if a move DIDN'T have a secondary effect I don't believe it would have extra power.
Do you get what I'm saying?
Like only moves like fire punch, ice punch, thunderpunch, flamethrower would all sacrifice the secondary effect for more power.
However moves like let's say brave bird don't have a secondary effect on an opponent so I don't believe they would recieve the extra bonus from this ability.

XEL July 11th, 2010 9:04 AM

Screw the hax! I'd love this ability!

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 9:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangvor (Post 5958028)
Okay well here's the thing if it removes the secondary effect to cause more power if a move DIDN'T have a secondary effect I don't believe it would have extra power.
Do you get what I'm saying?
Like only moves like fire punch, ice punch, thunderpunch, flamethrower would all sacrifice the secondary effect for more power.
However moves like let's say brave bird don't have a secondary effect on an opponent so I don't believe they would recieve the extra bonus from this ability.

From Serebii:

Quote:

This ability boosts the power of attacks used by the Pokemon but disables any secondary effect that they have
The way this is worded makes me believe that all moves are powered up, but have their secondary effects removed. That doesn't mean just the status conditions.

Ancient Power would never increase your stats when you used it if you had Encourage.

Basically any move with "May" or "Might" in it's description will be affected by Encourage, but regular moves will still be powered up.

I would say it is a good trade off. There are a lot of moves that have secondary effects. I already saw this ability coming when Dunsparce and Togekiss got the double secondary effect ability.

revelp8 July 11th, 2010 9:26 AM

there's one thing thats bugging me about this ability

drops ANY secondary effects correct?

IF that is true, then Flare blitz second ability is the recoil damage, THEN is the recoil damage nulled?

Mana July 11th, 2010 9:28 AM

I think it might be limited to certain moves (like tangvor said) or maybe only works for moves <60 power perhaps like technician.

It seems a bit overpowered at 1.5 so maybe its a bit lower? Perhaps 1.2? Still enough to make a difference without being overpowered.

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 9:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revelp8 (Post 5958115)
there's one thing thats bugging me about this ability

drops ANY secondary effects correct?

IF that is true, then Flare blitz second ability is the recoil damage, THEN is the recoil damage nulled?

A secondary effect is an effect that has a chance of happening. Recoil damage with moves like Flare Blitz always happen so it isn't a secondary effect. Moves like Flame Wheel that have a chance to burn the opponent won't burn because the chance to burn has been taken away.

Charizard★ July 11th, 2010 9:35 AM

This ability seems really good. I wonder how many more Pokemon will have this Ability. xD

revelp8 July 11th, 2010 9:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5958147)
A secondary effect is an effect that has a chance of happening. Recoil damage with moves like Flare Blitz always happen so it isn't a secondary effect. Moves like Flame Wheel that have a chance to burn the opponent won't burn because the chance to burn has been taken away.

oh boo! oh well, there goes that idea. if its going to OHKO with flare blitz, its going to be taking a lot of damage

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 9:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwiftSign (Post 5958121)
I think it might be limited to certain moves (like tangvor said) or maybe only works for moves <60 power perhaps like technician.

It seems a bit overpowered at 1.5 so maybe its a bit lower? Perhaps 1.2? Still enough to make a difference without being overpowered.

If it was limited to moves with secondary effects then almost every fire move would be allowed.

I added 1.25x calculations to my post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by revelp8 (Post 5958164)
oh boo! oh well, there goes that idea. if its going to OHKO with flare blitz, its going to be taking a lot of damage

It would be taking a HUGE amount of recoil. This ability gives you huge amounts of power in replace of strategy. There isn't much strategy in attacking at full force.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charizard★ (Post 5958151)
This ability seems really good. I wonder how many more Pokemon will have this Ability. xD

Hopefully not a Fighting or Psychic type. If one of those types had this ability they would completely destroy enemy teams.

revelp8 July 11th, 2010 9:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5958173)
If it was limited to moves with secondary effects then almost every fire move would be allowed.



It would be taking a HUGE amount of recoil. This ability gives you huge amounts of power in replace of strategy. There isn't much strategy in attacking at full force.

ah, i didn't read your first post thoroughly...sorry about that ^^;

Woo for overpowered ability, for the most part.

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 9:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revelp8 (Post 5958214)
ah, i didn't read your first post thoroughly...sorry about that ^^;

Woo for overpowered ability, for the most part.

It is only really over powered when you use STAB moves.

Anything higher than 1.5 would make Encourage a little OP

coolfarhan11 July 11th, 2010 2:38 PM

Wooguru's possible Sky Attack + Encourage + STAB + Life Orb = pwnage.

If my math is correct then in an extremely lucky but realistic situation, in the above equation, the variable pwnage = 1865.76 damage.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 2:59 PM

Imagine that thing with choice band/Power orb,ect. It would be uber!

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 3:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5959277)
Imagine that thing with choice band/Power orb,ect. It would be uber!

Yeah it would be uber most likely.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 3:28 PM

What a scary pokemon it is...hope Mold breaker can stop it's ability from working...

Azure-Supernova July 11th, 2010 3:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5958173)
It would be taking a HUGE amount of recoil. This ability gives you huge amounts of power in replace of strategy. There isn't much strategy in attacking at full force.

It'll essentially make the Pokémon with it a reckless 1hKO'er or a 'desperate times' Pokémon.

Gymnotide July 11th, 2010 3:41 PM

It's going to end up being a +10% boost and everyone in this thread is going to cry :D:D:D:D

lx_theo July 11th, 2010 3:44 PM

I wonder if they'll have the opposite as well, a weaker attack, but much increased chances of causing a status effect.

Gymnotide July 11th, 2010 3:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lx_theo (Post 5959402)
I wonder if they'll have the opposite as well, a weaker attack, but much increased chances of causing a status effect.

They already have Serene Grace, which doubles the chance of extra effects. Togepi, Togetic, Togekiss, Dunsparce, Shaymin, Happiny, Chansey, and Blissey have the ability. edit And Jirachi, of course.

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 4:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gymnotide (Post 5959393)
It's going to end up being a +10% boost and everyone in this thread is going to cry :D:D:D:D

That would be a very useless ability if it was that low of an increase.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 4:03 PM

Didn't they already stat the stat increase of the SA when the fire baboon came out?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 4:31 PM

Well it's called Encourage...I think it increases all moves not just stab by 1.25...

-Jared- July 11th, 2010 4:41 PM

Hmmmm...something about the name "Encourage" makes me think this is a double/triple battle only ability, like Plus/Minus. Like, encouraging your partners to do better or something. Is it just me, or does that seem likely?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 4:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikapal642 (Post 5959540)
Hmmmm...something about the name "Encourage" makes me think this is a double/triple battle only ability, like Plus/Minus. Like, encouraging your partners to do better or something. Is it just me, or does that seem likely?

It gave me that feeling too but is it encouraging your team or yourself?

-Jared- July 11th, 2010 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5959547)
It gave me that feeling too but is it encouraging your team or yourself?

Hmmm, didn't see it that way. :\

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 5959553)
Like I said, there has to be some sort of additional catch, and this might be it really, but I don't know. Having it in double battles only seems pretty cheesy. And if taking away secondary effects is the only drawback this ability has, then...wow really, I'm pretty surprised. Something that quite surpasses even Technician(sort of) in useful-ness. o_o


Cheesiness didn't stop Plus/Minus, Lightningrod, Storm Drain, etc from occuring. :laugh: But you're right, it would be weird to have it be multi-battle only....

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 5:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 5959553)
Like I said, there has to be some sort of additional catch, and this might be it really, but I don't know. Having it in double battles only seems pretty cheesy. And if taking away secondary effects is the only drawback this ability has, then...wow really, I'm pretty surprised. Something that quite surpasses even Technician(sort of) in useful-ness. o_o

Maybe the creators saw that as a bigger drawback than we are when they made it...but it really isn't as big as they might have though( if they did think this).

-Jared- July 11th, 2010 5:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 5959664)
Lightning rod isn't a cheesy ability at all if it's Jolteon. I would rather prefer Volt Absorb, but eh, I do see your point. The Pokemon takes damage regardless so in the end I do find those abilities pretty silly.

And muti-battles aren't that appealing to me, so I dunno.

Actually, I find Lightningrod brilliant when on a Ground type. ^__^

And I agree on testing the ability out first. I feel the same way. We'll see how it turns out when Smogon gets it's hands on it. XD

lx_theo July 11th, 2010 6:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gymnotide (Post 5959438)
They already have Serene Grace, which doubles the chance of extra effects. Togepi, Togetic, Togekiss, Dunsparce, Shaymin, Happiny, Chansey, and Blissey have the ability. edit And Jirachi, of course.

But does it reduce attack power? If it doesn't then I mean more like 75% to 90% more likely.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 6:24 PM

The move increases attack power by a certain amount :)

-Jared- July 11th, 2010 6:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lx_theo (Post 5959842)
But does it reduce attack power? If it doesn't then I mean more like 75% to 90% more likely.

No, Serene Grace doesn't lower attack power.

Jerme July 11th, 2010 8:10 PM

question: will it power moves that ONLY have secondary effects, or all moves?

i hope it powers moves that have secondary effects only, because if its for all moves pokemon that have it will be uber

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerme (Post 5959982)
question: will it power moves that ONLY have secondary effects, or all moves?

i hope it powers moves that have secondary effects only, because if its for all moves pokemon that have it will be uber

We dont know the specifics, but the way Serebii worded it makes me believe its all moves.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 8:18 PM

I read on a site that if it's 10 to 20 % then the ability won't be as much as a "Game breaker" as it could be or if the pokemon with the ability has low attack...but the Bird doesn't scream out low attack...quite the opposite actuary...

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 8:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5960018)
I read on a site that if it's 10 to 20 % then the ability won't be as much as a "Game breaker" as it could be or if the pokemon with the ability has low attack...but the Bird doesn't scream out low attack...quite the opposite actuary...

25% isn't much of an increase either. It wouldn't be too powerful unless you were using STAB moves.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5960030)
25% isn't much of an increase either. It wouldn't be too powerful unless you were using STAB moves.

Well the site did mention STAB moves as overpowered if the attack stat was too high...

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 9:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5960060)
Well the site did mention STAB moves as overpowered if the attack stat was too high...

That is because STAB multiplies the power of a move by 1.5x, which is an increase of 50%.

Mooguru is part flying type. He would get STAB from flying attacks. Brave Bird is a 120 powered flying move. Even if the power increase was by 10% the move would be 132 power. The STAB increase would bring it to 198 Power. It is still over powered.

Hihidaruma is pure fire. He would get STAB from fire attacks. Fire Punch is 75 Power. If Encourage was 10% of an increase it would be raised to 82.5 Power. If you add the STAB Increase you would get 123.75 Power. It is still going to be over powered even if it is as low as 10% so long as you have STAB.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5960254)
That is because STAB multiplies the power of a move by 1.5x, which is an increase of 50%.

Brave Bird is a 120 powered flying move. Even if the power increase was by 10% the move would be 132 power. The STAB increase would bring it to 198 Power. It is still over powered.

Well then that proves my statement about this being a game breaker...uh scary though...
Do you think it could secondary effect of Hyper beam and Giga impact which is the pause? Or is it only secondary effects as in recoil? or is it stat causing moves only? Wait but if Sky attack get it then...maybe Giga impact won't cause the need for recharge with this new SA...

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5960281)
Well then that proves my statement about this being a game breaker...uh scary though...
Do you think it could secondary effect of Hyper beam and Giga impact which is the pause? Or is it only secondary effects as in recoil? or is it stat causing moves only? Wait but if Sky attack get it then...maybe Giga impact won't cause the need for recharge with this new SA...

Those arent secondary effects.

A secondary effect is an effect that has a chance of happening like Ancient Power has the chance of raising your stats and Fire Punch has the chance of burning the opponent. Hyper beam ALWAYS requires a recharge so it isn't secondary. The same goes for recoil moves.

Unless the move has "Might" or "May" in its description it isnt secondary.

RECAP:

Encourage wont stop Hyper Beam from causing recharge and won't stop Take Down from causing recoil. It will stop Fire Punch from burning and Ancient Power from raising your stats. Moves that always cause effects like Bulk Up will still work.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5960314)
Those arent secondary effects.

A secondary effect is an effect that has a chance of happening like Ancient Power has the chance of raising your stats and Fire Punch has the chance of burning the opponent. Hyper beam ALWAYS requires a recharge so it isn't secondary. The same goes for recoil moves.

Unless the move has "Might" or "May" in its description it isnt secondary.

Ok then I get it now thanks for clearing that thought out :). Wonder if we might get a SA that stops the need to recharge from those moves though...

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5960330)
Ok then I get it now thanks for clearing that thought out :). Wonder if we might get a SA that stops the need to recharge from those moves though...

We sort of have that already. Slaking's ability.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5960337)
We sort of have that already. Slaking's ability.

Eh I don't count that as slaking has to recharge every single turn anyways no matter what move it uses...

yung_link July 11th, 2010 10:34 PM

so does it power up moves that dont have secondary effects?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 11th, 2010 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yung_link (Post 5960367)
so does it power up moves that dont have secondary effects?

No it powers up moves that have the words "might" or "may" on them, you know like moves that might burn like fire punch, or Sky attack that might have a critical hit...

MistahDude July 11th, 2010 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5960372)
No it powers up moves that have the words "might" or "may" on them, you know like moves that might burn like fire punch, or Sky attack that might have a critical hit...

Critical hits are not secondary because they aren't tied to a specific move. Some moves increase the chance of a critical hit happening but that effect isn't secondary, it is primary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yung_link (Post 5960367)
so does it power up moves that dont have secondary effects?

We do not know if it powers up all moves or just the secondary effect ones. The way it is worded on Serebii.net leads me to believe that it powers up all moves:

Quote:

This ability boosts the power of the attacks used by the Pokemon but disables any secondary effect that they have
The wording for this ability basically means that all moves will be powered up but if they have secondary effects those effects will not happen.

Serene Grace is an ability that boosts the chance of secondary effects happening. Serene grace doesnt boost recoil. If you think about it, a pokemon with serene grace doesn't get -4 special attack if it uses something like leaf storm, yet the stat drop is still considered a secondaty effect. I think Encourage is just like the opposite of serene grace with a boost. It only removes the chances of secondary effects like stat drops, stat boosts, and status.

Haza July 12th, 2010 1:07 AM

"Wargle" will probably be OU with this, and I'm so excited to use one.

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 2:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 5960625)
Just saying that if this generation comes out with its own Ice Beam/Stone edge/stealth rock/priority, it probably won't last in OU for a while.

I guess we will have to wait and see how his stats turn out. If he has decent stats his ability will push him up to OU.

Haza July 12th, 2010 2:24 AM

And he doesn't look like the type to have mediocre stats, but neither did Arcanine or Pidgeot... idk, I have high hopes for this monster.

Charmageddon July 12th, 2010 2:54 AM

Wait... so does it stop all secondary effects? Including the negative ones? Because then we have 100% accurate moves with 180 base power in Close Combat, Flare Blitz, Double Edge, etc... and two of those listed get stab, so that's 270 base power... if it stops the negative effects of those attacks then it will be horrible broken. Unless of course Hihiraduma and Wooguru and sucky stats...

Haza July 12th, 2010 2:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charmageddon (Post 5960743)
Wait... so does it stop all secondary effects? Including the negative ones? Because then we have 100% accurate moves with 180 base power in Close Combat, Flare Blitz, Double Edge, etc... and two of those listed get stab, so that's 270 base power... if it stops the negative effects of those attacks then it will be horrible broken. Unless of course Hihiraduma and Wooguru and sucky stats...

No, just things like status effects, and things that would effect the opponent.

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 2:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charmageddon (Post 5960743)
Wait... so does it stop all secondary effects? Including the negative ones? Because then we have 100% accurate moves with 180 base power in Close Combat, Flare Blitz, Double Edge, etc... and two of those listed get stab, so that's 270 base power... if it stops the negative effects of those attacks then it will be horrible broken. Unless of course Hihiraduma and Wooguru and sucky stats...

Does anyone read the posts before they post anymore? It was said several times what a secondary effect was.

Mujahid July 12th, 2010 3:47 AM

lol this is getting awkward now...READ PREVIOUS POSTS...a secondary effect is like thunder causing paralysis,ember causing burn,ice punch freezing the opponent,charge beam raising special atk,rock slide causing flinching etc...recoil damage,recharge turn,stat drop are NOT secondary effects...they will happen no matter what

Haza July 12th, 2010 4:23 AM

Basically the things when reading a moves description that say "and a chance of causing..."

Numbers July 12th, 2010 4:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5960254)
That is because STAB multiplies the power of a move by 1.5x, which is an increase of 50%.

Mooguru is part flying type. He would get STAB from flying attacks. Brave Bird is a 120 powered flying move. Even if the power increase was by 10% the move would be 132 power. The STAB increase would bring it to 198 Power. It is still over powered.

Hihidaruma is pure fire. He would get STAB from fire attacks. Fire Punch is 75 Power. If Encourage was 10% of an increase it would be raised to 82.5 Power. If you add the STAB Increase you would get 123.75 Power. It is still going to be over powered even if it is as low as 10% so long as you have STAB.

Well... Brave Bird has 120 Power and with STAB is 180. So already it's kinda over powered. Breloom has nightmares about this attack. That's why they have recoil. Imagine someone using Brave Bird with the Encourage ability, yes It's going to be overpowered but damn the recoil is going to be huge.

BUT in my opinion, I think that this ability will have another drawback, I think it only powers up moves that HAVE a secondary effect.
Hmmm... Like a trade. If you want extra power you need to give up your secondary effect. No secondary effect? No extra power! BYE!
I think ONLY having it negate secondary effects is not enough.

As for how much it raises, I'm going to say 25%

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 5:16 AM

I'm glad brave bird has no secondary effect or it would just be over kill...but...Fire blast does...

Haza July 12th, 2010 5:26 AM

We still don't know the exact effect do we? Let's not jump to conclusions and get all comfortable.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 5:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haza (Post 5960899)
We still don't know the exact effect do we? Let's not jump to conclusions and get all comfortable.

Well we do know the effect the only thing we have yet to see is the increase of the attack stat...

Haza July 12th, 2010 5:29 AM

But I think it'll power up all attacks, not just those with secondary effects. That's just lame.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 5:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haza (Post 5960911)
But I think it'll power up all attacks, not just those with secondary effects. That's just lame.

Well that's what the description said when we got the new two pokemon with the ability. Well if it wasn't only secondary moves it would be very broken...

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 5:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numbers (Post 5960842)
Well... Brave Bird has 120 Power and with STAB is 180. So already it's kinda over powered. Breloom has nightmares about this attack. That's why they have recoil. Imagine someone using Brave Bird with the Encourage ability, yes It's going to be overpowered but damn the recoil is going to be huge.

BUT in my opinion, I think that this ability will have another drawback, I think it only powers up moves that HAVE a secondary effect.
Hmmm... Like a trade. If you want extra power you need to give up your secondary effect. No secondary effect? No extra power! BYE!
I think ONLY having it negate secondary effects is not enough.

As for how much it raises, I'm going to say 25%

that doesn't exactly limit that many moves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5960921)
Well that's what the description said when we got the new two pokemon with the ability. Well if it wasn't only secondary moves it would be very broken...

we have other broken abilities. Its not like this is the only one.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 5:57 AM

Yeah our fire baboon friend is fire type, and most fire moves have a secondary effect which is to burn so Bonus from Encourage+ stab = major power!

StratusJm July 12th, 2010 6:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haza (Post 5960694)
And he doesn't look like the type to have mediocre stats, but neither did Arcanine or Pidgeot... idk, I have high hopes for this monster.

arcanines stats are actually quite good its base stat total is 555 which is very high for a non legendary, non psuedo-legendary pokemon

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 6:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratusJm (Post 5961022)
arcanines stats are actually quite good its base stat total is 555 which is very high for a non legendary, non psuedo-legendary pokemon

Also it is only part of a two pokemon line so if it had a evolution...watch out here comes a new Pseudo!
What other abilities are broken anyways?

Ninja Caterpie July 12th, 2010 6:34 AM

It can't and will not be broken.

Why? Because Game Freak is good at this.

Simple as that. Anything that could break it will be tweaked and fixed. That said, I believe it'll only work on moves that have a secondary effect; otherwise, it could be broken. Why only could? Because Game Freak could amp up the whole dang metagame and make everything we would consider broken in our nice little HGSS metagame completely normal.

BeachBoy July 12th, 2010 6:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 5960625)
Just saying that if this generation comes out with its own Ice Beam/Stone edge/stealth rock/priority, it probably won't last in OU for a while.

Looks like they'll both be weak to stealth rock regardless? Then again, SR never stopped Salamence completely, but it was a definite help. I think Hihidaruma, more than anything, has to worry about speed, but that's just me. Wooguru will be the better recipient of this ability, I think, as long as it has the speed. (which I assume based on the Eagle-like look)

And eh, I'm skeptical of calling this "broken," though. I don't feel we have enough information to make such a call. The atmosphere of Black and White's metagame might not give these two such an upper hand. I'm going to continue to wait till I offer my full opinion on the ability, really. It sure is interesting though.

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 6:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Caterpie (Post 5961103)
It can't and will not be broken.

Why? Because Game Freak is good at this.

Simple as that. Anything that could break it will be tweaked and fixed. That said, I believe it'll only work on moves that have a secondary effect; otherwise, it could be broken. Why only could? Because Game Freak could amp up the whole dang metagame and make everything we would consider broken in our nice little HGSS metagame completely normal.

It wasnt part of the actual translation but its possible that it could be that way. I actually thought that was the case until a non fire type got the ability. Almost all Fire type moves have the secondary effect of burn, but very little flying and normal type moves have secondary effects. I don't think GF would give Wooguru the short end of the stick.

StratusJm July 12th, 2010 6:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5961037)
Also it is only part of a two pokemon line so if it had a evolution...watch out here comes a new Pseudo!
What other abilities are broken anyways?

na i think with psuedos the entire evolutionary line has to be released in one generation plus they are always dual-typed from the first form and ya i just dont think arcanine becoming a psuedo would happen sorry! what it really needs is a massively expanded move pool.

the only ability i can think of that could possibly be broken is wonderguard but they compensated for that

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 6:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5961128)
It wasnt part of the actual translation but its possible that it could be that way. I actually thought that was the case until a non fire type got the ability. Almost all Fire type moves have the secondary effect of burn, but very little flying and normal type moves have secondary effects. I don't think GF would give Wooguru the short end of the stick.

Well maybe they did that to Wooguru because it already has high attack (just guessing it has high attack):\

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 6:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratusJm (Post 5961135)
na i think with psuedos the entire evolutionary line has to be released in one generation plus they are always dual-typed from the first form and ya i just dont think arcanine becoming a psuedo would happen sorry! what it really needs is a massively expanded move pool.

the only ability i can think of that could possibly be broken is wonderguard but they compensated for that

Serene Grace is semi-broken. With Dunsparce you can continually spam flinch once you paralyze the opponent.

Between 5% to 15% of an increase for power with Encourage would be ideal, with all attacks not just the ones with secondary effects.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 6:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 5961151)
Encourage + STAB Air Slash? Of course, I'm not saying for sure that its learning Air slash, its just an example.

But I'm thinking it might be this gen's Togekiss, minus the hax.

I can most definately see it as this gen's togekiss...wait does it's SA raise the attack stat of the move? like if it uses Air slash does it raise the Sa?

Ninja Caterpie July 12th, 2010 6:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5961128)
It wasnt part of the actual translation but its possible that it could be that way. I actually thought that was the case until a non fire type got the ability. Almost all Fire type moves have the secondary effect of burn, but very little flying and normal type moves have secondary effects. I don't think GF would give Wooguru the short end of the stick.

Oh, trust me, they don't do that. You know Ambipom and Technician? Yeah, well, funny, Ambipom's most reliable under-60-BP attack is, well, Cut. Pathetic, until they made Double Hit, almost specially for Ambipom to be good.

StratusJm July 12th, 2010 6:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5961155)
Serene Grace is semi-broken. With Dunsparce you can continually spam flinch once you paralyze the opponent.

Between 5% to 15% of an increase for power with Encourage would be ideal, with all attacks not just the ones with secondary effects.

oh i forgot about serene grace! and dont forget the 80% chance of a sharp drop in special defence sky shaymin has with seed flare

and i would say the attack increse will be closer to 25%

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 6:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5961157)
I can most definately see it as this gen's togekiss...wait does it's SA raise the attack stat of the move? like if it uses Air slash does it raise the Sa?

It raises the "Power" of the move which means the base power of the move is increased. It doesn't raise the pokemon's special attack or attack stat.

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 6:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratusJm (Post 5961169)
oh i forgot about serene grace! and dont forget the 80% chance of a sharp drop in special defence sky shaymin has with seed flare

and i would say the attack increse will be closer to 25%

Even with STAB moves a 10% of an increase would make it OP.

BeachBoy July 12th, 2010 7:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5961175)
Even with STAB moves a 10% of an increase would make it OP.

Not true. In a metagame that should still revolve around types that are great defensively against these two, we can't be certain anything will be OU right out of the small info gates just because of an ability. I would not make that call until we know more. The possibilities are there, but you can't be certain.

EDIT: I'm assuming you meant OU over OP?

EDIT2.0:
Quote:

no i think by OP he meant over powered.
Damn. :( I'm always a miss on this.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 7:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5961170)
It raises the "Power" of the move which means the base power of the move is increased. It doesn't raise the pokemon's special attack or attack stat.

Yeah I know, I was just wondering whether it rose the power of Special attack moves or only the power of attack. Thanks again for clearing this up for me :)

StratusJm July 12th, 2010 7:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeachBoy (Post 5961184)
Not true. In a metagame that should still revolve around types that are great defensively against these two, we can't be certain anything will be OU right out of the small info gates just because of an ability. I would not make that call until we know more. The possibilities are there, but you can't be certain.

EDIT: I'm assuming you meant OU over OP?

no i think by OP he meant over powered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5961175)
Even with STAB moves a 10% of an increase would make it OP.

no i dont think 10% percent would really be that overpowered.. although who knows it might be horribly overpowered

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 7:10 AM

I wish we could see the ability at work like we see moves attack. You know a sprite/motion for when they are using their SA! I imagine Encourage to be banging on the ground or flying around in circles :)

StratusJm July 12th, 2010 7:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 5961209)
Even then, it would be doubtful as all we're given is just a new Pokemon and an ability, so I wouldn't jump the gun at this point and call it "overpowered". We don't even know it's base stats yet to be certain of this.

i wouldnt call it overpowered either especially since neither of the pokemon who have this ability look particularly strong. hihidaruma i imagine will be very slow and the eagle thing is a bird and a lot of stuff walls them.. and to the person who said the bird could be an UBER a while back i loled

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 7:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratusJm (Post 5961201)
no i think by OP he meant over powered.



no i dont think 10% percent would really be that overpowered.. although who knows it might be horribly overpowered

A 10% Increase STAB move is 1.65x more than the original power. It makes a move like Fire Punch, 75 original Power, increase to 123.75 Power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratusJm (Post 5961224)
i wouldnt call it overpowered either especially since neither of the pokemon who have this ability look particularly strong. hihidaruma i imagine will be very slow and the eagle thing is a bird and a lot of stuff walls them.. and to the person who said the bird could be an UBER a while back i loled

Hihidaruma most likely evolves, he doesn't look like a final form.

StratusJm July 12th, 2010 7:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5961233)
A 10% Increase STAB move is 1.65x more than the original power. It makes a move like Fire Punch, 75 original Power, increase to 123.75 Power.

i dont think 123.75 power for fire punch would terrify me if i saw a hihidaruma tbh

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 7:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5961233)
A 10% Increase STAB move is 1.65x more than the original power. It makes a move like Fire Punch, 75 original Power, increase to 123.75 Power.



Hihidaruma most likely evolves, he doesn't look like a final form.

wow that move is more powerful than fire blast with Encourage 0_0. How much would fire blast be with that bonus...198...now that's base power 0_0.

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 7:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratusJm (Post 5961252)
i dont think 123.75 power for fire punch would terrify me if i saw a hihidaruma tbh

You are forgetting that Hihidaruma will most likely evolve. He was with the mole and Shimama during that triple battle. He also looks like he would evolve into something huge.

StratusJm July 12th, 2010 7:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5961233)
Hihidaruma most likely evolves, he doesn't look like a final form.

i have a feeling he wont have an evolution or a prevolution though...

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 7:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StratusJm (Post 5961263)
i have a feeling he wont have an evolution or a prevolution though...

Why wouldn't he evolve? He is rather small and not too detailed. He fits the characteristics of a Prevo pokemon.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 7:25 AM

Well Hidarama could be a powerful one stage pokemon...I can see it evolve though into a powerful Fire/fight so that weakens Stealth rock's effect :).

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 7:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 5961270)
Adding onto the fact that we dont even know for certain how much this raises attack by, nor if there's any other catch with this...well yeah, I hope you can see where I'm coming from here.

Well yeah you dont have to say that every time I post a guesstimate. I am just assuming its all moves with a low percentage attack boost.

BeachBoy July 12th, 2010 7:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5961274)
Why wouldn't he evolve? He is rather small and not too detailed. He fits the characteristics of a Prevo pokemon.

I felt like Zangoose could evolve, and Primeape isn't that detailed..

I don't see this one evolving, in my opinion.

Buuut that's straying a bit off-topic. Agreeing with Derk, we don't know the exact increase yet, which is vital.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 7:28 AM

Well we do have a catch we know about and that is no secondary effect...hope there isn't another catch other than that...

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 7:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeachBoy (Post 5961287)
I felt like Zangoose could evolve, and Primeape isn't that detailed..

I don't see this one evolving, in my opinion.

Buuut that's straying a bit off-topic. Agreeing with Derk, we don't know the exact increase yet, which is vital.

Well gen 1 pokemon weren't as detailed as now but you might be right about it not evolving. I hope it does evolve though.

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 7:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 5961295)
Well, going from your 10% guess, wouldn't items like Charcoal and Nevermeltice etc be apparently deadly to have as well? As far as I know, they increase a select type attack by 10%, but they're still apparently useless, so I'm a bit confused here.

It could negate held items, which would make it useless as an ability.

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/165/8/8/Hihidaruma_and_Shimama_evos__by_LilCthulhu.jpg

The above picture has an example of what Hihidaruma could look like evolved, because he is a baboon.

BeachBoy July 12th, 2010 7:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5961301)
It could negate held items, which would make it useless as an ability.

Now there's a catch-22 that would definitely make this interesting.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 7:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5961301)
It could negate held items, which would make it useless as an ability.

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/165/8/8/Hihidaruma_and_Shimama_evos__by_LilCthulhu.jpg

The above picture has an example of what Hihidaruma could look like evolved, because he is a baboon.

I can truly see Hihidaruma evolve into that :)


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