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-   -   5th Gen Pointless Start Moves (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=225516)

Volroc July 12th, 2010 1:17 AM

Pointless Start Moves
 
As you see with every evolved pokemons moveset you get a bunch of moves it learns threw level up anyways, who else thinks these should be removed for moves more useful, or just plain removed

Pandemonioum July 12th, 2010 1:20 AM

Just no, think about lvl 5 Mamepato launching Sky Attack on you? It would not feel right, or first Koromori you encounter uses Psychic to destroy you, would not be cool.

Volroc July 12th, 2010 1:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandemonioum (Post 5960624)
Just no, think about lvl 5 Mamepato launching Sky Attack on you? It would not feel right, or first Koromori you encounter uses Psychic to destroy you, would not be cool.

you didnt read at all did you?

i was talking bout how whiscash has the first 5-6moves barboach learns plus zen headbutt as start moves

charizard has the first 4-6moves charmander gets plus heatwave

exc.

Azure-Supernova July 12th, 2010 1:48 AM

Yeah, why would you want to RE-learn scratch or Ember?

Volroc July 12th, 2010 1:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure-Supernova (Post 5960656)
Yeah, why would you want to RE-learn scratch or Ember?

my point exactly :( its so pointless :(

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 2:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volroc (Post 5960659)
my point exactly :( its so pointless :(

It was that way for contests. It also makes sense. Why would a pokemon be unable to use what it's previous forms could learn?

Volroc July 12th, 2010 2:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistahDude (Post 5960670)
It was that way for contests. It also makes sense. Why would a pokemon be unable to use what it's previous forms could learn?

but it learns those move TWICE

its starts off with them, then learns them anyways threw level up

its useless space being taken up.

Mana July 12th, 2010 2:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volroc (Post 5960685)
but it learns those move TWICE

its starts off with them, then learns them anyways threw level up

its useless space being taken up.


Only one Pokémon learns a single move twice o.o I just can't remember which one...



Charizard, as in your example, cannot double learn anything by levelling up normally (if you level up at every opportunity). It DOES double up if you press B on occasion, since charmander/charmeleon will learn moves a level or two earlier.

Now you want this not to happen, however this means people who never evolve their Pokémon (and there are a fair few) would be limited to moves for Charmander and Charmeleon a lot.

A Charizard is never going to level up and want to learn Ember, as Ember is Lv 7, unless you've hacked the thing.

So really I don't see the problem? XD

Volroc July 12th, 2010 2:37 AM

Generation IV
Other generation learnsets: I - II - III
Level Move Type Cat. Pwr. Acc. PP Contest Appeal
Start Air Slash Flying Special 75 95% 20 Cool 2 ♥♥
Start Dragon Claw Dragon Physical 80 100% 15 Cool 2 ♥♥
Start Shadow Claw Ghost Physical 70 100% 15 Cute 2 ♥♥
Start Scratch Normal Physical 40 100% 35 Tough 3 ♥♥♥
Start Growl Normal Status — 100% 40 Cute 2 ♥♥
Start Ember Fire Special 40 100% 25 Beauty 3 ♥♥♥
Start SmokeScreen Normal Status — 100% 20 Smart 2 ♥♥
7 Ember Fire Special 40 100% 25 Beauty 3 ♥♥♥
10 SmokeScreen Normal Status — 100% 20 Smart 2 ♥♥
17 Dragon Rage Dragon Special — 100% 10 Cool 3 ♥♥♥
21 Scary Face Normal Status — 90% 10 Tough 2 ♥♥
28 Fire Fang Fire Physical 65 95% 15 Beauty 3 ♥♥♥
32 Slash Normal Physical 70 100% 20 Cool 3 ♥♥♥
36 Wing Attack Flying Physical 60 100% 35 Cool 3 ♥♥♥
42 Flamethrower Fire Special 95 100% 15 Beauty 2 ♥♥
49 Fire Spin Fire Special 15 70% 15 Beauty 0
59 Heat Wave Fire Special 100 90% 10 Beauty 2 ♥♥
66 Flare Blitz Fire Physical 120 100% 15 Smart 2 ♥♥
Bold indicates a move that gets STAB
Italic indicates a move that gets STAB only from an evolution of this Pokémon

this is charizards moveset.

now i see several moves twice, now im sure you can read, so youll see what i mean.

Palkia July 12th, 2010 2:38 AM

I agree. Who would have a level 5 blastoise.

The only reason they are there are for the down to level one dungeons in pokemon mystery dungeon.

vibratingcat July 12th, 2010 2:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volroc (Post 5960685)
but it learns those move TWICE

its starts off with them, then learns them anyways threw level up

its useless space being taken up.

what space? its not like you can learn that same attack if you've already got it, and i doubt it would take up any room on the ds cartridge.
i can see that it's pointless, but it's not like it matters if it's still there in BW.

Mana July 12th, 2010 2:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volroc (Post 5960722)
Generation IV
Other generation learnsets: I - II - III
Level Move Type Cat. Pwr. Acc. PP Contest Appeal
Start Air Slash Flying Special 75 95% 20 Cool 2 ♥♥
Start Dragon Claw Dragon Physical 80 100% 15 Cool 2 ♥♥
Start Shadow Claw Ghost Physical 70 100% 15 Cute 2 ♥♥
Start Scratch Normal Physical 40 100% 35 Tough 3 ♥♥♥
Start Growl Normal Status — 100% 40 Cute 2 ♥♥
Start Ember Fire Special 40 100% 25 Beauty 3 ♥♥♥
Start SmokeScreen Normal Status — 100% 20 Smart 2 ♥♥
7 Ember Fire Special 40 100% 25 Beauty 3 ♥♥♥
10 SmokeScreen Normal Status — 100% 20 Smart 2 ♥♥
17 Dragon Rage Dragon Special — 100% 10 Cool 3 ♥♥♥
21 Scary Face Normal Status — 90% 10 Tough 2 ♥♥
28 Fire Fang Fire Physical 65 95% 15 Beauty 3 ♥♥♥
32 Slash Normal Physical 70 100% 20 Cool 3 ♥♥♥
36 Wing Attack Flying Physical 60 100% 35 Cool 3 ♥♥♥
42 Flamethrower Fire Special 95 100% 15 Beauty 2 ♥♥
49 Fire Spin Fire Special 15 70% 15 Beauty 0
59 Heat Wave Fire Special 100 90% 10 Beauty 2 ♥♥
66 Flare Blitz Fire Physical 120 100% 15 Smart 2 ♥♥
Bold indicates a move that gets STAB
Italic indicates a move that gets STAB only from an evolution of this Pokémon

this is charizards moveset.

now i see several moves twice, now im sure you can read, so youll see what i mean.


And, if you look, you will realise that a Charizard does not learn most of these things by level up ^^.

You are only going to encounter moves from 36 onwards, and none of those are repeated anywhere else in the list.

The 'Start' moves are just for move relearner, or possibly a debug list for when they test the game.

There is no reason to remove them, as they in no way effect the game. Without a list/Hacking you would never know that Charizard learns ember at lv 7 as it would never happen. They also shouldn't be changed as it has the the first 3 moves as 'special' relearn moves, and the others are just from the normal moveset. o_o

Volroc July 12th, 2010 2:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Para-Dox (Post 5960723)
I agree. Who would have a level 5 blastoise.

The only reason they are there are for the down to level one dungeons in pokemon mystery dungeon.

people who use AR for solo runs duh :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by vibratingcat (Post 5960724)
what space? its not like you can learn that same attack if you've already got it, and i doubt it would take up any room on the ds cartridge.
i can see that it's pointless, but it's not like it matters if it's still there in BW.

it does take up space if you add it together after you count all the pokemon&moves, you could remove a few megabits &voila you could get more moves, or more gameplay

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 3:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volroc (Post 5960734)
people who use AR for solo runs duh :P



it does take up space if you add it together after you count all the pokemon&moves, you could remove a few megabits &voila you could get more moves, or more gameplay

all in all it really doesn't matter. They are going to continue to do it and you can't really do anything about it.

Nikolai Fox July 12th, 2010 3:51 AM

I think what he means is, Charizard's movelist shows ember at both level 1, and level 7. It's impossible to learn ember at level 7, so the only way you can learn it is with the move rememberer. But you could still learn ember because ember is still there under level 1. It's just impossible for an un-hacked Charizard to learn ember at level 7.

It's not something to bother about though. I really doubt space was a problem for them.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 6:04 AM

Pointless start moves shouldn't really matter to anyone who doesn't use hacks...and besides it can't learn ember again if it already has it...

Ninja Caterpie July 12th, 2010 6:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volroc (Post 5960734)
it does take up space if you add it together after you count all the pokemon&moves, you could remove a few megabits &voila you could get more moves, or more gameplay

Oh, I'm pretty sure Game Freak knows exactly what they're doing. Everything in the game will be everything planned. I highly doubt anything will be excluded. The only time that ever happened was Red, where the ROM was crammed with crap because the Gameboy was just too small. The DS can hold hundreds of MB of stuff, all of which is now compressed. It's really quite massive, what they can do.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 6:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volroc (Post 5960734)
people who use AR for solo runs duh :P



it does take up space if you add it together after you count all the pokemon&moves, you could remove a few megabits &voila you could get more moves, or more gameplay

Do you use Ar?
Besides I think a move like Ember doesn't even use up a entire MB anyways...

BeachBoy July 12th, 2010 6:40 AM

I always thought we had the extra moves in the final species thanks to Heart Scale? Or something crazy like that.

Frankly, I don't mind the 'almost-extra' moves, they don't bother me a bit.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 6:43 AM

I actually like Starting moves.like Regigigas who can learn all the 3 elemental punches by using a heart scale, I actually use them.

Nikolai Fox July 12th, 2010 8:28 AM

When thing that does bug me about movesets is ones that you get just after evolving. Gyarados for example learns Bite at level 20, which you assume is because it's the kind of move Gyarados would have. It would make sense if you just learned bite whenever you evolved it into Gyarados. But no, say you get a level 20 Magikarp and evolve it, you are stuck with a level 21 Gyarados with Splash and Tackle :/

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 8:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikolai Fox (Post 5961508)
When thing that does bug me about movesets is ones that you get just after evolving. Gyarados for example learns Bite at level 20, which you assume is because it's the kind of move Gyarados would have. It would make sense if you just learned bite whenever you evolved it into Gyarados. But no, say you get a level 20 Magikarp and evolve it, you are stuck with a level 21 Gyarados with Splash and Tackle :/

That annoys me as well >_>

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 5:59 PM

How much can a ds cartage actually hold anyways :)?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 6:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haowakeorden (Post 5963446)
I've heard 128 MB, and I've also heard that Diamond and Pearl didn't even take up half of that.

Well BW is using more than that for sure...I wonder how much space that is...

Ninja Caterpie July 12th, 2010 6:54 PM

For some reason, my Sands of Destruction ROM is 256MB...


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