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CeroPrimero July 12th, 2010 9:25 AM

New Legendary Representations
 
***Edited for clarity reasons***
Something I've been wondering ever since Generation IV is how would the next generation of Pokémon would be able to surpass what Arceus represented. In Generation I the legendaries for the most part represented the seasons and aspects of the weather. Gen. II built a little off of that with the three beasts and Lugia and Ho-Oh as the Guardians of the sea and sky respectively. From there Gen. III brought us the overseers/creators of land, sea, and sky and Gen. IV gave us the pokemon that shaped time, space, and the universe itself. The main question here is how do you go beyond that? How much deeper can the origins go? Its not to say the creators necessarily have to go beyond Arceus but if you look at each generation the legendaries powers and representations have all gone steps beyond their predecessors.

This thread is also to discuss what other representations the new legendary Pokémon may have. Generation IV gave us 13 new legendary Pokémon (14 if you count Phione) and so it is fair to assume that there will be a decent amount of new ones aside from the two we already know with Reshiram and Zekrom. Will they be sculptors of the earth or universe too? What higher representations are left to be covered in the Pokémon World? What are your thoughts and what would you like to see? Discuss here.


Quick rundown. Feel free to add in anything else in case I missed something or made a mistake. I'm going based off of all known Pokédex entries and information from bulbapedia.

Gen. I:
Artucuno: Winter and ice
Zapdos: Summer and thunder
Moltres: Spring and flame
Mewtwo: DNA engineering
Mew: "Ancestor of all Pokémon"

Gen. II:
Entei: Volcano eruptions and the flames that burned the Brass Tower
Raikou: Lightning striking and the lightning that struck the Brass Tower
Suicune: The North Winds and the rain that put out the Brass Tower
Lugia: "Guardian of the Seas" and storms
Ho-Oh: "Guardian of the Skies" and rainbows
Celebi: Time-travel

Gen. III:
Regice: Ice Age
Regirock: Stone Age
Registeel: Iron Age
Latias: Telepathy and invisibility
Latios: Telepathy and imagination
Groudon: Creator of land
Kyogre: Creator of the sea
Rayquaza: The sky and the ozone layer
Jirachi: Wish granter
Deoxys: Extraterrestrial life

Gen. IV:
Uxie: Knowledge
Mesprit: Emotion
Azelf: Willpower
Dialga: Time
Palkia: Space
Giratina: Antimatter
Cresselia: The crescent moon, hope, and good dreams
Darkrai: The new moon and nightmares
Manaphy: "Prince of the Sea" and hydration
Phione: Legendary status is questionable but representation is probably the same as Manaphy
Heatran: Embodiment of volcanic activity
Regigigas: Pulled the continents together
Shaymin: Purity and creator of plant life
Arceus: "The Original One" and creator of the Pokémon universe


Things I can think of:
The autumn season has been left out since Gen. I and the legendary birds.
The full moon could be represented by a new legendary.
A chaos Pokémon that created the egg Arceus was born from. (That would top Arceus)
Legendary Pokémon representing death (although Giratina kind of covers that and this is a game marketed for kids).
If Arceus is the Pokémon God then what about a Pokémon Devil? (Again wishful thinking considering this is a kids' game)
Legendary Pokémon representing parallel universes, wormholes, black holes, or other dimensions (the Distortion World kind of weakens this idea but it could be pulled off).

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 9:29 AM

Well we have yet to have light and dark, Nature and tech which I think these two new legendary pokemon represent ;)

Iceshadow3317 July 12th, 2010 9:33 AM

I would say Life and Death or Light and Dark.
Both of them respresnt a side of the Yin-Yang symbol. Find out what that means and you will know what the represent.

Yamikarasu July 12th, 2010 9:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5961725)
Well we have yet to have light and dark, Nature and tech which I think these two new legendary pokemon represent ;)

I don't think Zekrom really represents darkness... I think the best explanation, imo, is that Reshiram is natural light and Zekrom is artificial light (fire=natural, electricity= artificial).

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 9:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamikarasu (Post 5961744)
I don't think Zekrom really represents darkness... I think the best explanation, imo, is that Reshiram is natural light and Zekrom is artificial light (fire=natural, electricity= artificial).

So it is natural vs. technological/artificial :)

Åzurε July 12th, 2010 9:36 AM

Never thought of it that way, Yamikarasu. It could work, but I'd rather find out when the games come out.

Iceshadow3317 July 12th, 2010 9:37 AM

Quote:

The relationship between yin and yang is often described in terms of sunlight playing over a mountain and in the valley. Yin (literally the 'shady place' or 'north slope') is the dark area occluded by the mountain's bulk, while yang (literally the 'sunny place' or 'south slope') is the brightly lit portion. As the sun moves across the sky, yin and yang gradually trade places with each other, revealing what was obscured and obscuring what was revealed.
Yin is characterized as slow, soft, yielding, diffuse, cold, wet, or tranquil; and is associated with water, earth, the moon, femininity and nighttime.
Yang, by contrast, is fast, hard, solid, focused, hot, dry, or aggressive; and is associated with fire, sky, the sun, masculinity and daytime.[4

So Resh is Day
Zek is Night

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 9:39 AM

Zekrom represents electrical storms and darkness while reshiram represents heat and light.

Oh and this picture doesn't really add anything, it is just sexy:

http://pokebeach.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/reshiram-zekrom-anime.jpg

Iceshadow3317 July 12th, 2010 9:44 AM

Which is why the screen shot with Zek is probably him making it dark.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 9:45 AM

I see where you guys are all coming from any of those can be right actually :)

Iceshadow3317 July 12th, 2010 9:52 AM

It makes sense.

Time/Space
Land/Water
Guardian of Seas/Guardian of Skies
Day/Night

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 9:54 AM

Natural/Artificial makes sense too :)

Hydrath July 12th, 2010 9:56 AM

how does it work if Mew is the ancestor of all pokemon and yet Arceus is the God pokemon that created Emotion, will and knowledge plus the universe... and yet Mew and Mewtwo were suppose t be the mose powerful pokemon.

this game does seem to contradict itself.


Also I think black and white games represent day and night instead of good and evil or light and dark. Though I could be wrong.

Iceshadow3317 July 12th, 2010 10:00 AM

Also the Trio is lible to be, Rain,Snow,Sun or Past Presnt Future.

Hydrath July 12th, 2010 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 5961819)
Also the Trio is lible to be, Rain,Snow,Sun or Past Presnt Future.

or power, courage, wisdom XD

Pandemonioum July 12th, 2010 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hydrath (Post 5961830)
or power, courage, wisdom XD

Triforce Pokémon? xD

Zekrom and Reshiram represent Narute and Industrial world, or so some people think. I think they should just represent Good and Evil.

orange discontent July 12th, 2010 11:53 AM

Since Zekrom isn't a dark type at all considering its colouring it's probably not good vs. evil. That would have been boring and predictable anyways. I sooooo did not see the box mascots, with their monochromatic color schemes (or even the names Black and White for their respective games) as technology vs. nature, did you? Maybe with their tails or names, but just looking at them?

Night and day? Maybe, but I would have expected a dark typing on Zekrom and psychic for Reshiram a la Cresselia and Darkrai. You could twist it that the fire and electric types could be night and day, but you tell me.

With the ominous Black City and serene White Forest, it sounds like Pokemon is going for 'save the rainforests' motif.

Azure-Supernova July 12th, 2010 12:05 PM

I'd actually like to see Game Freak creat a Pokémon representing existence in its purest form: Chaos. I'm a keen student of the Protogenoi geanology and it seems that Pokémon has covered most of the Great 18.

Let's see them make a trio (or just three seperate, unrelated Pokémon) out of Chaos (Void) Inevitability and Generation. Throw them in next to Arceus and then you have a universal power right there.

Storm_has_formed July 12th, 2010 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hydrath (Post 5961830)
or power, courage, wisdom XD

so we'll be seeing the triforce appear soon? i mean in a sorta pokemon way :p

luigimario94 July 12th, 2010 12:24 PM

I don't think an "Evil" Version of Arceus is that far off. I've said that one would happen for two years and I doubt I'm the first to say it.

Agent Clank July 12th, 2010 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamikarasu (Post 5961744)
the best explanation, imo, is that Reshiram is natural light and Zekrom is artificial light (fire=natural, electricity= artificial).

I think thats a great idea.
Natural vs Artifical!

CeroPrimero July 12th, 2010 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 5961819)
Also the Trio is lible to be, Rain,Snow,Sun or Past Presnt Future.

Do you think they'll be Christmas ghosts? XD

Rain, snow and sun have kind of been covered with Suicune, Lugia, Articuno and Moltres but there's always the possibility for more.

I like the night and day concept for Reshiram and Zekrom but prefer the natural-light and artificial-light theory even more considering neither of them are Dark types. If the Team Rocket for these games is really supposed to be called Team Plasma then natural and artificial elements would really work into whatever their scheme is supposed to be.

This thread also isn't limited to the two we know about. Gen. IV gave us 13 legendaries (14 if you count Phione) so what other legendary types do you all think may come out of this? I, like someone else mentioned, would also be really psyched for a pokemon that embodies chaos.

Iceshadow3317 July 12th, 2010 12:36 PM

Well it was said some where that the weather would play a major role in the game.

Azure-Supernova July 12th, 2010 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CeroPrimero (Post 5962117)
I, like someone else mentioned, would also be really psyched for a pokemon that embodies chaos.

Definitely, the perfect accomplice for Arceus. Even if he is a God Pokémon, he can't rule alone and there's no way he made em all himself. With Chaos embodying pure, volatile matter, Arceus would have then shaped the world out of something... even gods have never been shown to simply create.

Åzurε July 12th, 2010 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure-Supernova (Post 5962136)
Definitely, the perfect accomplice for Arceus. Even if he is a God Pokémon, he can't rule alone and there's no way he made em all himself. With Chaos embodying pure, volatile matter, Arceus would have then shaped the world out of something... even gods have never been shown to simply create.

Overruled: Genesis, chapter one. But I see what you're saying, it would be interesting. However, something tells me we won't see a third Pokemon directly related to Zek 'n' Reshi. Yin and Yang are very distinct dual forces, and assuming they're using that sort of symbolism it would be a bit over-the-top to do that.

Haza July 12th, 2010 1:02 PM

I've been saying for a while now that'll be Naturalism vs. Industrialization and it seems that the evidence is adding up for this to be true.

Azure-Supernova July 12th, 2010 1:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Åzurε (Post 5962178)
Overruled: Genesis, chapter one. But I see what you're saying, it would be interesting. However, something tells me we won't see a third Pokemon directly related to Zek 'n' Reshi. Yin and Yang are very distinct dual forces, and assuming they're using that sort of symbolism it would be a bit over-the-top to do that.

You'll have to forgive me, I've never even touched a bible >.> Still whichever way you spin God, something had to have created God or God had to have been formed from something... it simply could have just... been... so by that, there must be a raw state to everything, even God(s).

It could work, maybe not in this generation, but I'd like to see it.

vietazn654 July 12th, 2010 1:07 PM

Life and Death Pokemon. That would be epic. =D Plus there could be other Pokemon that helped Arceus, err... Like a Pokemon of Destiny, Void, Chaos--I'm thinking Greek mythology now am I? :P

Leaf Shinigami July 12th, 2010 1:13 PM

Its Natural vs Artificial

Hence the White Forest against the Black city.

Azure-Supernova July 12th, 2010 1:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vietazn654 (Post 5962295)
Life and Death Pokemon. That would be epic. =D Plus there could be other Pokemon that helped Arceus, err... Like a Pokemon of Destiny, Void, Chaos--I'm thinking Greek mythology now am I? :P

True, most of the Protogenoi already have Pokémon counterparts. Chaos, Phanes, Ananke and Tartaros are the only ones that haven't really been explored. It's not like they're even obscure, Chaos, New Life, Inevitablity (or Destiny) and of course the Underworld.

Here we have the means to pad out the Pokémon universe.

Chaos (Void) to represent the raw state of energy that Arceus needed to shape the world.
Phanes (New Life) to breathe life into Arceus' creations and allow them to procreate.
Ananke (Destiny) to bring balance to New Life. Tying each being with a fate.
Tartaros, which is pretty much Hell personified. We know that Pokémon do die, but perhaps creating a heaven and hell for them would be a step too far.

Arceus needs siblings!

dinosaurodon July 12th, 2010 1:33 PM

Naturalism vs. Industrialization sounds about right, and when when you industrialize nature it becomes a barren wasteland >desert<=>ground<= ground can put out fire and electricity cant pass through it, i don't know the third legendary might just be a ground type. who knows, i haven't put much thought into it but anything can happen.

orange discontent July 12th, 2010 1:48 PM

What would a third legendary be like, anyways? Maybe there won't be a third legend and they'll focus on a different legendary all together like Suicune and Pokemon Crystal.

Gardenia101 July 12th, 2010 1:55 PM

Original One
 
Ummm.... Not trying to spam or anything but, uh, Arceus isn't the original one...

Here, see the movie "Secret Sphere of Influence". In it, Nando tells Ash that the Lake Trio created Dialga and Palkia, and then the trio made spirit and the duo made matter. Mesprit, Azelf, and Uxie are the original ones, the one that "Came from an Egg". That's why the books and stuff always talk about the trio "Hatching from the same egg".

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=8K3R1M52

See it there.....

Azure-Supernova July 12th, 2010 2:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardenia101 (Post 5962573)
Ummm.... Not trying to spam or anything but, uh, Arceus isn't the original one...

Here, see the movie "Secret Sphere of Influence". In it, Nando tells Ash that the Lake Trio created Dialga and Palkia, and then the trio made spirit and the duo made matter. Mesprit, Azelf, and Uxie are the original ones, the one that "Came from an Egg". That's why the books and stuff always talk about the trio "Hatching from the same egg".

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=8K3R1M52

See it there.....

"Ash still wants to knows the full legend of the Dragon trio, and Nando tells the group of the Original One, who helped shape the world by creating Dialga and Palkia before creating three other Pokémon to act as the world's spirit."

To quote Nando himself:

"In the beginning, there was only a churning turmoil of chaos. And at the heart of the chaos, where all things became one." From then on he just goes on to say that the Original One split into three more beings, then it fell into a deep sleep.

Gardenia101 July 12th, 2010 2:16 PM

But I think now they will make a pokemon that lives in the core of the Earth

orange discontent July 12th, 2010 2:18 PM

Quote:

Ummm.... Not trying to spam or anything but, uh, Arceus isn't the original one...
You're right. That's Bulbasaur, Charmander, Squirtle, etc.

It's just a myth about an extremely powerful Pokemon... I can't believe people actually think that Arceus is an honest-to-god, well, god in the pogeyworld. No, Arceus does not need a counterpart. That's Giratina.

Besides, I like the Mew-as-original theory better.

Azure-Supernova July 12th, 2010 2:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange discontent (Post 5962674)
You're right. That's Bulbasaur, Charmander, Squirtle, etc.

It's just a myth about an extremely powerful Pokemon... I can't believe people actually think that Arceus is an honest-to-god, well, god in the pogeyworld. No, Arceus does not need a counterpart. That's Giratina.

Besides, I like the Mew-as-original theory better.

Well so do I, but the Pokémon universe has been spun a different way.

Bloothump July 12th, 2010 2:59 PM

Naturalization vs. Industrialization, and here's why:
Zekrom's tail is like a part of an airplane (sorry, don't know the correct term) while Reshiram's liiks like an old style torch. Likewise, Zekrom's typing is electricity, which is what we as humans use today in our modern civilizations for light, warmth, and several other things in our daily lives. Reshiram is a fire type, the source of light and warmth humans used before electricity was harnessed for daily use. In addition to that, Zekrom is very sleek and artificial looking, while Reshiram is feathery and looks more like a natural animal.
The version exclusive areas are Black City (industrialization) and White Forest (naturalization)

And why do these legendaries have to "top Arceus"? Maybe they can still be amazing without being overly powerful or important towards existence?

Iceshadow3317 July 12th, 2010 3:01 PM

Yall ain't following the yig yang pattern thought.

Yin-yang stand for Day and Night. It has nothing to do with Naturalization vs. Industrialization.

StratusJm July 12th, 2010 3:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloothump (Post 5962819)
Naturalization vs. Industrialization, and here's why:
Zekrom's tail is like a part of an airplane (sorry, don't know the correct term) while Reshiram's liiks like an old style torch. Likewise, Zekrom's typing is electricity, which is what we as humans use today in our modern civilizations for light, warmth, and several other things in our daily lives. Reshiram is a fire type, the source of light and warmth humans used before electricity was harnessed for daily use. In addition to that, Zekrom is very sleek and artificial looking, while Reshiram is feathery and looks more like a natural animal.
The version exclusive areas are Black City (industrialization) and White Forest (naturalization)

And why do these legendaries have to "top Arceus"? Maybe they can still be amazing without being overly powerful or important towards existence?

i think people say they have to top arceus because the legends have been getting more powerful every generation.

i agree with the industrialisation verses naturalisation theme but yin ang yang are also part of it

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 3:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 5962829)
Yall ain't following the yig yang pattern thought.

Yin-yang stand for Day and Night. It has nothing to do with Naturalization vs. Industrialization.

No yin and yang have to do with opposing things, such examples include Male and female, light and dark,land and sea, and also Nature and Industry, there are also other things.

Waki Tobaye July 12th, 2010 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloothump (Post 5962819)
Naturalization vs. Industrialization, and here's why:
Zekrom's tail is like a part of an airplane (sorry, don't know the correct term) while Reshiram's liiks like an old style torch. Likewise, Zekrom's typing is electricity, which is what we as humans use today in our modern civilizations for light, warmth, and several other things in our daily lives. Reshiram is a fire type, the source of light and warmth humans used before electricity was harnessed for daily use. In addition to that, Zekrom is very sleek and artificial looking, while Reshiram is feathery and looks more like a natural animal.
The version exclusive areas are Black City (industrialization) and White Forest (naturalization)

And why do these legendaries have to "top Arceus"? Maybe they can still be amazing without being overly powerful or important towards existence?

Although this is very likely; remember CoroCoro stated in June thatReshiram is the Yang Pokémon and Zekrom is the Yin Pokémon. What has the ying-yang in common with industry and nature?

Again; while Zekrom's turbine, Reshiram's torch and the whole exclusive-places thing makes sense with nature and that; what about the Pokédex entries?

StratusJm July 12th, 2010 3:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5962853)
No yin and yang have to do with opposing things, such examples include Male and female, light and dark,land and sea, and also Nature and Industry, there are also other things.

ya i do believe they are called the white yin and black yang pokemon??

Iceshadow3317 July 12th, 2010 3:14 PM

Ok,I'll go with that,but I still somewhat disagree. I guess we can't get a clear answer untill confirmed.......................which Serebii is lacking today.......

Ya Stratus,you are right

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waki Tobaye (Post 5962857)


Although this is very likely; remember CoroCoro stated in June thatReshiram is the Yang Pokémon and Zekrom is the Yin Pokémon. What has the ying-yang in common with industry and nature?

Again; while Zekrom's turbine, Reshiram's torch and the whole exclusive-places thing makes sense with nature and that; what about the Pokédex entries?

Uh, Yin and Yang involve polar opposites, they don't only stand for Night and day like most think. They stand for opposites and Nature is the opposite of Industry does allowing for it to be used :)

Rengoku July 12th, 2010 3:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5962853)
No yin and yang have to do with opposing things, such examples include Male and female, light and dark,land and sea, and also Nature and Industry, there are also other things.

Yup of course.
When there're males, there'll be females.
When there're lights, there'll be Darkness.
So Natural vs Artifical does make senses.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 3:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rilence (Post 5962876)
Yup of course.
When there're males, there'll be females.
When there're lights, there'll be Darkness.
So Natural vs Artifical does make senses.

It feels nice to have someone who understands the concept is more than Day and night on :)

Iceshadow3317 July 12th, 2010 3:19 PM

Lol,it could be somethign totaly diffrent from what we think. Even if one of us are right. There is still thousands of possabilities. Because mostly everything has an opposite.

I just with Serebii would give us a lot more news. They said they where goign to get tons today,but they have failed to post any.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 3:20 PM

I'm disappointed in the lack of new news so far :(

Iceshadow3317 July 12th, 2010 3:21 PM

Same. So what about the Trio pokemon? What you thinkt hey will be

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 3:25 PM

I think the third one will balance out the attributes like for example if it's natural vs. artificial it would represent that you can live with nature and industry in one :) Same if it's night and dark it would twilight/dawn/dusk :)

Haza July 12th, 2010 3:28 PM

I think the trio should represent my favorite "D's":
Death: Dark/Ghost
Destruction: Fire
Disease: Poison

I'm a sick sick Beauty Killer ;)

Azure-Supernova July 12th, 2010 3:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloothump (Post 5962819)
Naturalization vs. Industrialization, and here's why:
Zekrom's tail is like a part of an airplane (sorry, don't know the correct term) while Reshiram's liiks like an old style torch. Likewise, Zekrom's typing is electricity, which is what we as humans use today in our modern civilizations for light, warmth, and several other things in our daily lives. Reshiram is a fire type, the source of light and warmth humans used before electricity was harnessed for daily use. In addition to that, Zekrom is very sleek and artificial looking, while Reshiram is feathery and looks more like a natural animal.
The version exclusive areas are Black City (industrialization) and White Forest (naturalization)

And why do these legendaries have to "top Arceus"? Maybe they can still be amazing without being overly powerful or important towards existence?

No-one here has been suggesting that they have to "top Arceus"... I just thought this was a thread for brainstorming ideas about legendaries... you know, as well as discussing Reshiram and Zekrom.

I'm not after anything particularly strong, I've never used a Legendary in a team because they just don't fit in with my style :P Because all my Pokémon have to 'look the part' too

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 3:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haza (Post 5962934)
I think the trio should represent my favorite "D's":
Death: Dark/Ghost
Destruction: Fire
Disease: Poison

I'm a sick sick Beauty Killer ;)

Well I don't think the trio that Zekrom and Rashirom belong to fit this but another trio could ;)

Bloothump July 12th, 2010 3:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure-Supernova (Post 5962942)
No-one here has been suggesting that they have to "top Arceus"... I just thought this was a thread for brainstorming ideas about legendaries... you know, as well as discussing Reshiram and Zekrom.

I'm not after anything particularly strong, I've never used a Legendary in a team because they just don't fit in with my style :P Because all my Pokémon have to 'look the part' too

Well I thought I read "how are they going to top arceus?" in the first post.
And considering Industrialization v. Naturalism are complete opposites, it still fits the Yin/Yang entry. I personally haven't seen this pokedex entry, but still. Also, the pokedex is a simple, limited description. I rely on the facts that I see, and make inferences off that. I can't possibly think that Game freak just slapped on fire/electric typing and jet turbine tails and said "HERP DURR DERP IT ARE EVIL/GOOD I ARE SO DEEP LULZ"

Waffle-San July 12th, 2010 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure-Supernova (Post 5962942)
No-one here has been suggesting that they have to "top Arceus"... I just thought this was a thread for brainstorming ideas about legendaries... you know, as well as discussing Reshiram and Zekrom.

The OP mentioned topping Arceus. But I'm extremely glad the thread hasn't branched off this way as there is no need to top any pokemon.

Naturalism and Industrialism is eaily my favourite theory. I mean southern Isshu is pretty advanced but the North is pretty rural for the most part.

Also having a Chaos Pokemon would be so awesome!

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 3:52 PM

Yeah I think they made them represent something, also have you noticed they have one of the types of the legendary birds? Rashiram=Mortres, Zekrom= Zapdos... third one = Articuno ?

Bloothump July 12th, 2010 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5963011)
Yeah I think they made them represent something, also have you noticed they have one of the types of the legendary birds? Rashiram=Mortres, Zekrom= Zapdos... third one = Articuno ?

I'm sorry dear friend but Reshiram and Zekrom are dragon types while Zapdos and Moltres are flying. If that's not what you meant, and you mean that the third should be Dragon/Ice, well that'd be awesome. Not sure how that'd tie in with the story though.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 3:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloothump (Post 5963016)
I'm sorry dear friend but Reshiram and Zekrom are dragon types while Zapdos and Moltres are flying. If that's not what you meant, and you mean that the third should be Dragon/Ice, well that'd be awesome. Not sure how that'd tie in with the story though.

Yeah I meant the elemental type :P. Well ice can be produced artificially and naturally :)

CeroPrimero July 12th, 2010 4:01 PM

I did ask how are they going to top Arceus. I meant it in saying how do you go beyond what Arceus represents? Generation I the legendaries for the most part represented the seasons and aspects of the weather. Gen. II built a little off of that with the three beasts and Lugia and Ho-Oh as the Guardians of the sea and sky respectively. From there Gen. III brought us the overseers/creators of land, sea, and sky and Gen. IV gave us the pokemon that shaped time, space, and the universe itself. The question is more like, how do you go beyond that? How much deeper can the origins go? Its not to say they necessarily have to go beyond Arceus but if you look at each generation the legendaries powers and representations have all gone steps beyond their predecessors and I just can't think of anything bigger than creating the universe except for pokemon representing Chaos or the Void.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 4:02 PM

Well cero I think they might have gone a step back this time :P

インフェルノの津波 July 12th, 2010 4:03 PM

A Legendary that is representing the future, past, and present.

Bloothump July 12th, 2010 4:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CeroPrimero (Post 5963036)
I did ask how are they going to top Arceus. I meant it in saying how do you go beyond what Arceus represents? Generation I the legendaries for the most part represented the seasons and aspects of the weather. Gen. II built a little off of that with the three beasts and Lugia and Ho-Oh as the Guardians of the sea and sky respectively. From there Gen. III brought us the overseers/creators of land, sea, and sky and Gen. IV gave us the pokemon that shaped time, space, and the universe itself. The question is more like, how do you go beyond that? How much deeper can the origins go? Its not to say they necessarily have to go beyond Arceus but if you look at each generation the legendaries powers and representations have all gone steps beyond their predecessors and I just can't think of anything bigger than creating the universe except for pokemon representing Chaos or the Void.

I see what you mean and here's what I see happening: in the past the legendaries have represented physical portions of our world and universe. Once they struck time, space and creation, well, there really was no other way to expand the way they were going. I think now they've shifted gears and from here on out we'll be seeing more morally controversial issues and theories represented by our legendaries. So maybe sixth generation will be anarchy and law. Things like that.

CeroPrimero July 12th, 2010 4:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5963040)
Well cero I think they might have gone a step back this time :P

And I can accept that answer because, although Chaos and Void pokemon would be awesome, anything beyond that would be WAY too complicated for a game that's for the most part aimed at kids.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 4:08 PM

We have had a pokemon of space travel so why not phases of time( like what the person above whose name I can't type due to the characters, said :) )

Rengoku July 12th, 2010 4:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5963032)
Yeah I meant the elemental type :P. Well ice can be produced artificially and naturally :)

Ah!
Now it fits!
I was like hm, could it be Dragon/Ice?
I didn't thought of Ice being able to be produced artificially and naturally lol!
Now it makes sense :P

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rilence (Post 5963063)
Ah!
Now it fits!
I was like hm, could it be Dragon/Ice?
I didn't thought of Ice being able to be produced artificially and naturally lol!
Now it makes sense :P

Yeah I thought of that since we got the types of the mascots :P

Blaziquaza July 12th, 2010 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent Clank (Post 5962089)
I think thats a great idea.
Natural vs Artifical!

Mew and Mewtwo covered that.
Honestly, I think Reshiram and Zekrom repesent good and evil. Yin and Yang anybody? (Yay for me, Captain Obvious)

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 4:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaziquaza (Post 5963090)

Mew and Mewtwo covered that.
Honestly, I think Reshiram and Zekrom repesent good and evil. Yin and Yang anybody? (Yay for me, Captain Obvious)

Well again Yin and Yang don't only mean good and evil...they are opposites, actually this isn't the first time we have seen yin and yang, we saw in in gen 2 with the sky and sea, gen 3 with Land and Sea, gen 4 with Time and space then in Pt it became Time/space continuum and the reverse world filled with antimatter...
So it might not be Good and evil after all.

CeroPrimero July 12th, 2010 4:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haza (Post 5962934)
I think the trio should represent my favorite "D's":
Death: Dark/Ghost
Destruction: Fire
Disease: Poison

I'm a sick sick Beauty Killer ;)

Ooooh... if only that could be done.

I'm thinking from my first post we need a third runner with Cresselia and Darkrai. Something representing the full moon: a werewolf pokemon!

Azure-Supernova July 12th, 2010 4:26 PM

Well forgive my igorance :P When my brain starts going I can't stop myself.

I wonder, are Game Freak attempting to educate us through entertainment O.o Not that it's a bad thing on the whole, I just hope they don't try and squeeze in a racial message -_-

Rengoku July 12th, 2010 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5963095)
Well again Yin and Yang don't only mean good and evil...they are opposites, actually this isn't the first time we have seen yin and yang, we saw in in gen 2 with the sky and sea, gen 3 with Land and Sea, gen 4 with Time and space then in Pt it became Time/space continuum and the reverse world filled with antimatter...
So it might not be Good and evil after all.

^ THIS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_yang
People, read this seriously.

Many natural dualities — e.g. dark and light, female and male, low and high, cold and hot — are thought of as manifestations of yin and yang (respectively).

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure-Supernova (Post 5963098)
Well forgive my igorance :P When my brain starts going I can't stop myself.

I wonder, are Game Freak attempting to educate us through entertainment O.o Not that it's a bad thing on the whole, I just hope they don't try and squeeze in a racial message -_-

racial message? In what way are they doing that?

Bloothump July 12th, 2010 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaziquaza (Post 5963090)

Mew and Mewtwo covered that.
Honestly, I think Reshiram and Zekrom repesent good and evil. Yin and Yang anybody? (Yay for me, Captain Obvious)

Mew and Mewtwo didn't cover anything, they were there for the sake of a little storyline but really weren't representations of anything.
Also, Yin and Yang isn't just good/evil. It's a universal theory that is used to show all opposites or opposing forces carry some of the attributes of the other side, or to show that without one force there cannot be the other.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloothump (Post 5963107)
Mew and Mewtwo didn't cover anything, they were there for the sake of a little storyline but really weren't representations of anything.
Also, Yin and Yang isn't just good/evil. It's a universal theory that is used to show all opposites or opposing forces carry some of the attributes of the other side, or to show that without one force there cannot be the other.

You are very right about Yin and Yang, good another person who knows about it :)

Azure-Supernova July 12th, 2010 4:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5963106)
racial message? In what way are they doing that?

I didn't say they were... I just said I hope they don't...

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 5:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure-Supernova (Post 5963197)
I didn't say they were... I just said I hope they don't...

Ok...but I was wondering why you would hope for that...is their something that makes you think their might be a racial thing going on?

Spinor July 12th, 2010 5:07 PM

Question: Since when are the creators obligated to top ANYTHING from the previous generation?

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdvancedK47 (Post 5963237)
Question: Since when are the creators obligated to top ANYTHING from the previous generation?

They aren't unless they are obligating themselves:\

CeroPrimero July 12th, 2010 5:30 PM

First post edited for clarity purposes. On with discussions/thoughts/opinions.

...Come on Full Moon Werewolf Legendary!

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 5:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CeroPrimero (Post 5963305)
First post edited for clarity purposes. On with discussions/thoughts/opinions.

...Come on Full Moon Werewolf Legendary!

In a way the full moon is represented by Lugia who is seen with a full moon during the opening in SS...but a Full moon werewolf sounds cool, I want it too :D!

Planetes. July 12th, 2010 5:46 PM

How about yin and freaking yang?

CeroPrimero July 12th, 2010 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceDragonite (Post 5963374)
How about yin and freaking yang?

Yin and yang can symbolize lot of different things and has been brought up A LOT in this thread.

Scorpio219 July 12th, 2010 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 5961819)
Also the Trio is lible to be, Rain,Snow,Sun or Past Presnt Future.

how could it be "past present future" when dialga is the creator of time and celebi is already the time-travel pokemon

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire July 12th, 2010 6:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CeroPrimero (Post 5963395)
Yin and yang can symbolize lot of different things and has been brought up A LOT in this thread.

uh, don't even try anymore apperantly people don't read others posts :disappoin:tired:

Silver.Nova July 12th, 2010 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceDragonite (Post 5963374)
How about yin and freaking yang?

Lol, someone needs to read the thread.

Clearly thay ARE meade to represent yin ang yang but which aspects of yin and yang are up for debate. As mentioned numerous times, yin and yang are opposites. They could be any opposing force in the universe.

When they were first revealed I thought their representations would be limited to just that. However, the discussions on natural and artificial are very intriguing and have kinda swayed my opinion.

I have a feeling that if they are going for an Artificial vs Industrial theme that they're trying to hit on a few enviromental issues. (I find it ironic how the region is called Isshu because of this. Issue, Issu XD)

Pokemon's turning into a Social Studies class lol.

Iceshadow3317 July 12th, 2010 7:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scorpio219 (Post 5963397)
how could it be "past present future" when dialga is the creator of time and celebi is already the time-travel pokemon

Umm I never said it was. It was a thought......

Hey the legendary Trio could be

Lion,Tiger and Cheatah or Leapord.

I'm not sure what they would respresent maybe

Choas,Balance,Lawful or City,Forest,Ocean or even Loud,Quiet and something else. That would represent city,country then somethign else.

Aggression July 12th, 2010 8:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5961725)
Well we have yet to have light and dark, Nature and tech which I think these two new legendary pokemon represent ;)

1. Giratina is the "Devil", 6 neck rings, 6 wing spikes, 6 legs. 666
2. Their classifications are Ying/Yang pokemon. Not nature/tech

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 5963739)
Umm I never said it was. It was a thought......

Hey the legendary Trio could be

[b]Lion,Tiger and Cheatah or Leapord.[b]

I'm not sure what they would respresent maybe

Choas,Balance,Lawful or City,Forest,Ocean or even Loud,Quiet and something else. That would represent city,country then somethign else.

...wut...
Suicune is a wolf, Entei is a Lion, Raiku is a sabertooth tiger

Iceshadow3317 July 12th, 2010 8:09 PM

Actuly those are dogs......

They are all considered dogs. Ask almost anyone and they will say they are Legendary Dogs

Astinus July 12th, 2010 9:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 5963831)
Actuly those are dogs......

They are all considered dogs. Ask almost anyone and they will say they are Legendary Dogs

Um, no. Raikou is based on a saber-toothed tiger with its fur pattern resembling a tiger or Tasmanian tiger; Entei shares features with adult male lions and lion-dogs; Suicune shares features with a leopard, a cheetah, and a Shinto god whom wears the skin of a leopard.

Lots of people call them the Legendary Cats. Others say Legendary Dogs. But the easy term is Legendary Beasts.

They have features of both cats and dogs. So they're really not dogs and they're not really cats, either. They're beasts, to avoid arguements. (Or gerbils, but...)

And I agree with those who said that Industrial/Natural is going to be the "theme" of the games. Isshu is a more technologically advanced region, so it would fit.

Guillermo July 12th, 2010 10:12 PM

I doubt they would represent technology, since that doesn't fit with the whole Pokemon theme. Still, a Pokemon that made iPods would be cool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astinus (Post 5963982)
Um, no. Raikou is based on a saber-toothed tiger with its fur pattern resembling a tiger or Tasmanian tiger; Entei shares features with adult male lions and lion-dogs; Suicune shares features with a leopard, a cheetah, and a Shinto god whom wears the skin of a leopard.

Lots of people call them the Legendary Cats. Others say Legendary Dogs. But the easy term is Legendary Beasts.

They have features of both cats and dogs. So they're really not dogs and they're not really cats, either. They're beasts, to avoid arguements. (Or gerbils, but...)

And I agree with those who said that Industrial/Natural is going to be the "theme" of the games. Isshu is a more technologically advanced region, so it would fit.

Suicune has a beard, so clearly it's a goat.

MistahDude July 12th, 2010 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman3317 (Post 5963831)
Actuly those are dogs......

They are all considered dogs. Ask almost anyone and they will say they are Legendary Dogs

They arent legendary dogs. They are beasts.

TheReal July 12th, 2010 11:18 PM

I didn't read all of your posts to know what you are thinking, but I, TheReal, have some words to say to you, about the new legendaries and black/white.
First of all, these games will be a lot about exploration: ruins, talismans, mythological creatures, etc. We will have evo's of old pokémons to myth creatures, like tauros to a minotauros and heracross to an Atlas based pokémon (Atlas is the guy that holds the world in his arms, which needs a lot of strengh, which combines with heracross fight type). Also, we will have that sarcophagus pokémon and others representing the temathic. But this is only an introduction to talk about the most important part... the legendaries!
The new trio will be based on egyptian mythology. They will be all dogs, but really dogs! Not like suicune, entei and raikou that some say they're dogs and other cats and others whatever come to their mind (like goats.. see post above me). This time will be really dogs! An Anubis like will be one of them and the others I can't figure out which of one are they, since we have some egyptian gods dog like. Their meaning won't be the same as the egyptian gods, of course, since most of them represent death and the underworld, temathics not apropriated to Pokémon. They'll have another symbolic meaning.
Now, the principal trio, from which we already know two. Reshiram and Zekrom represent the ying-yang: right! They're the opposite: right! They represent an opposition, artificial and natural life: right again! And it's all. Since we don't have another element in the ying-yang, the third legendary will be out of it. He will be just like Giratina, represents another 'world' (like Giratina represents the distortion world). This time, the ancient world will be represented, the beginning world when pokémon were created by Arceus, where the first Pokémon species habited. He will be a snake like pokémon with a turbine on his tail, just like Reshiram and Zekrom. Also Dragon type. Yes, Arceus won't be topped. He'll never be topped anyways.
That's all TheReal have to say to you. This is true story and for the most skeptics, just wait more two months and see!
(And this is why my signature makes sense, TheReal is God, yes, I'm God and I know everything, because on July Arceus is on vacation, just like many other people.)

Guillermo July 12th, 2010 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReal (Post 5964117)
I didn't read all of your posts to know what you are thinking, but I, TheReal, have some words to say to you, about the new legendaries and black/white.
First of all, these games will be a lot about exploration: ruins, talismans, mythological creatures, etc. We will have evo's of old pokémons to myth creatures, like tauros to a minotauros and heracross to an Atlas based pokémon (Atlas is the guy that holds the world in his arms, which needs a lot of strengh, which combines with heracross fight type). Also, we will have that sarcophagus pokémon and others representing the temathic. But this is only an introduction to talk about the most important part... the legendaries!
The new trio will be based on egyptian mythology. They will be all dogs, but really dogs! Not like suicune, entei and raikou that some say they're dogs and other cats and others whatever come to their mind (like goats.. see post above me). This time will be really dogs! An Anubis like will be one of them and the others I can't figure out which of one are they, since we have some egyptian gods dog like. Their meaning won't be the same as the egyptian gods, of course, since most of them represent death and the underworld, temathics not apropriated to Pokémon. They'll have another symbolic meaning.
Now, the principal trio, from which we already know two. Reshiram and Zekrom represent the ying-yang: right! They're the opposite: right! They represent an opposition, artificial and natural life: right again! And it's all. Since we don't have another element in the ying-yang, the third legendary will be out of it. He will be just like Giratina, represents another 'world' (like Giratina represents the distortion world). This time, the ancient world will be represented, the beginning world when pokémon were created by Arceus, where the first Pokémon species habited. He will be a snake like pokémon with a turbine on his tail, just like Reshiram and Zekrom. Also Dragon type. Yes, Arceus won't be topped. He'll never be topped anyways.
That's all TheReal have to say to you. This is true story and for the most skeptics, just wait more two months and see!
(And this is why my signature makes sense, TheReal is God, yes, I'm God and I know everything, because on July Arceus is on vacation, just like may other people.)

Excuse me, but what are you smoking?

Azure-Supernova July 13th, 2010 2:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magmaruby and Aquasapphire (Post 5963225)
Ok...but I was wondering why you would hope for that...is their something that makes you think their might be a racial thing going on?

I don't know... it was late last night and I was tired... my brain stopped working but my fingers kept tapping... guess Black & White had me thinking Ebony/Ivory.

Iceshadow3317 July 13th, 2010 3:33 AM

Never have I heard them ever called cats. I have heard of beasts and dogs never cats.




Anyways that really isn't the point.

Haza July 13th, 2010 3:46 AM

Lol, the trio could be based on Egyptian mythology, and thats desert could hold the key to them. i'd love to see some Illuminati Trinity stuff going on.

Iceshadow3317 July 13th, 2010 6:29 AM

Peopel sayign Natural vs man is right. look at the new scans some of the areas are diffrent 1 is more old age and the other is more futuirstic.

jjohn779 July 13th, 2010 6:51 AM

I think that artificial and natural would suffice, but day and night just seems more logical... a fire/dragon type represents the day with the sun burning brightly in the sky, and the electric/dragon type would represent the night full of lightning sadness.

but there is a way the artificial/natural way and the day/night thing COULD intersect, say that during the day; you have natural light, but during the night; the only real light you have is artificial(sorry moon, you're just not bright enough lol)

but yah those are my theorys on the main two, but i almost gureentee(misspelled) that there will be another trio but they are not going to represent emotions, because in doing so they are simply copying 4th gen. but i do like the sound of past, present, and future and i already know what the types should be...past; dark/ghost= dark past. Present; fighting/ghost=struggle, not looking at future, only past. Future; Psychic/Ghost=looking toward the future

These are my theorys, i was not looking forward to BW because i thought i was going to be repetitive, but like all pokemon games, i will play and most likely love them.(make a version for the wii XD)

dead-man-walking July 13th, 2010 6:57 AM

Resh and Zek are Fire and Electric right? Maybe Sunlight/Storms theme would do aside from Light/Dark. Zero/Infinity would be awesome but probably impossible for now. Day/Night would also make sense.

Off-Topic: Resh got a hot ass! :D


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