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Planetes. August 9th, 2010 8:02 AM

TMs & HMs Discussion
 
This is basically to discuss the possible TMs and HMs in Isshu and the order

Knowledge so far: TMs are re-useable in Isshu, just like HMs


Personally I love this idea so I don't have to trade for Flamethrowers, and Earthquakes, I think that the move Sky Attack should get a TM tho

dragon0fangz August 9th, 2010 8:24 AM

FINALLY. its about time we had reusable TMs. I just hope you can still delete them. It would suck if you couldnt delete them like HMs.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire August 9th, 2010 8:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon0fangz (Post 6052915)
FINALLY. its about time we had reusable TMs. I just hope you can still delete them. It would suck if you couldnt delete them like HMs.

That would be worse than HM's that aren't in a HM slave if you make a moveset up of TM's...

An Imperialist named Dak August 9th, 2010 8:36 AM

i have the biggest smile on right now, but i bet game freak is gonna put them in the oddest places or make you abuse the itemfinder to get them.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire August 9th, 2010 8:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Imperialist named Dak (Post 6052964)
i have the biggest smile on right now, but i bet game freak is gonna put them in the oddest places or make you abuse the itemfinder to get them.

I think so too, they will only put bullet seed,etc out though but keep the powerful ones hidden -_-...

Kirbychu August 9th, 2010 8:40 AM

This really doesn't affect me, since I've been using AR/the cloning glitch to get by this the last two generations. At least this will give people like me less incentive to hack for these things. I think they'll just add on TMs to the current 90(ish) we have.

I think Ice Shard and Superpower deserve TM slots.

Ho-Oh August 9th, 2010 8:40 AM

Just so you know, I'm only allowing this because we don't have a TM/HM discussion thread, so... yeah try to speculate on new TM/HM's rather than just the re-useable tm feature (which, by itself was merged with the CoroCoro scans thread). :x

Also. I actually hope they decrease the amount of TMs, low level ones as mentioned in MRAS' post (bullet seed) are... sort of not necessary.

Kirbychu August 9th, 2010 8:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever (Post 6052984)
Also. I actually hope they decrease the amount of TMs, low level ones as mentioned in MRAS' post (bullet seed) are... sort of not necessary.

They can still serve a purpose during the beginning of the game. However, Bullet Seed is one of the most awful moves in existence.

Ho-Oh August 9th, 2010 8:46 AM

Well yeah, but still, Bullet Seed...was completely pointless. It probably had something to do with the introduction of new berries, but yeah. XD;

I sense a TM overhaul, which is needed, anyway. HMs, however, eliminate everything except Surf, Fly, Strength (wishful thinking).

Ryu-kun August 9th, 2010 8:50 AM

^^ Or replace Strength with a bulldozer xD

Some TM's just make me go Lolwut for what they contain... Like, why do we need a Fling TM?

alisaie August 9th, 2010 8:51 AM

That would be nice if they can get rid of the other HMs other than those three. Those three and Waterfall, I guess, because that move is pretty powerful in itself. I've never really had any of the other ones on any of my team members.

gah, there was a move that I really wished was a TM, but I forgot it. I'll get back to you guys with that. I do agree in getting rid of some of the pointless ones/the ones that no one had probably ever used anyways.

Planetes. August 9th, 2010 8:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever (Post 6053001)
Well yeah, but still, Bullet Seed...was completely pointless. It probably had something to do with the introduction of new berries, but yeah. XD;

I sense a TM overhaul, which is needed, anyway. HMs, however, eliminate everything except Surf, Fly, Strength (wishful thinking).


every gen has a TM overhaul....


Anyway, I can sense them making us do a Wi-Fi mission for Eartquake or Giga Impact, I really hope they sell Giga Impact though

Kevin August 9th, 2010 8:59 AM

Orealy? That's nice. I remember there was a thread on this, but it's probably dead by now. xD;

Reusuable TM's are good...

Ho-Oh August 9th, 2010 8:59 AM

Oh, I mean complete overhaul.

Max 30 TMs. :) I wish

And if so, Flamethrower must be included.

Cobalt'Scizor August 9th, 2010 9:04 AM

The HMs I think are the better ones are Surf, Fly, Waterfall and Dive, but they'll keep Cut, Surf, Fly, Rock Smash, possibly Waterfall, and maybe Strength, very slight chance of Rock Climb. Inventing Defog as a HM was not right. I also don't get why Flash was demoted, although I never liked it. I think that they should get rid of all except the first 3 I mentioned, and invent 5 new HMs that are good.

Planetes. August 9th, 2010 9:08 AM

I love flash for the Nostalgia

And @ forever, while finding Tms may be annoying, they are useful because they let Pokemon learn moves they don't usually learn
(ex: I can absolutely destroy Lance with Dragon Pulse Rhyperior)

Air Pichu August 9th, 2010 9:42 AM

I think they should definitely keep Surf, Fly, and Waterfall pretty much because they're the best moves.

I don't really like the reusable TMs, it gives me a sign that this game is..... easy.

StratusJm August 9th, 2010 10:19 AM

i <3 reusable tm's! and i think agility and maybe nasty plot should be tm's i mean we have swords dance.

Porygon Z August 9th, 2010 10:24 AM

Personally, I hate this thing.
IMHO, it's too easy in this way.
If they used another way, like buying all TMs, it would be near the same thing, but you have to gain by yourself, to get your Pokèmon stronger (I hope you'll understand).

Anyway, I'd like to have Sky Attack, Lava Plume, and Volt Tackle as TMs.
And maybe they could use all the past HMs, and something new, to get like 15 HMs! :D

Kleinchen August 9th, 2010 11:03 AM

I wonder if the reusable TMs feature means that you won't be able to buy TMs in the department stores anymore? I mean, if you can use a TM over and over again limitlessly then it kind of defeats the purpose of having certain TMs for sale, because if you can find it in the wild then you'll never need to buy one. Hmm.

Not sure how I feel about this yet. But I do hope that they cut down on the number of HMs. Seriously, four or five is the absolute max there should be... Eight is kind of borderline ridiculous.

Xander Olivieri August 9th, 2010 11:15 AM

This is the first feature in Black and White that I don't like TBH.

Competitively, it ruins most of the set up. I mean I can now give my entire team Stealth Rock so no matter who comes out first I can set it up. Same with the Over Powered TMs. It also takes away from HM's unique points.

As for useless TMs, Multi attacking ones I don't see as useless. I mean If a Grass Pokemon had Technician, you'd love the hell out of Bullet Seed.

If they were to remove TMs, I want them to remove the ones that are always on the list and the Auto Hit moves like Aerial Ace. That way they can at least put SOME challenge into raising a Pokemon. Or make the TM unusable until you refresh it like in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, since the update on it that I saw only says that the TMs don't disappear after use and not, TMs can be used over and over without fail.

Planetes. August 9th, 2010 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porygon Z (Post 6053379)
Personally, I hate this thing.
IMHO, it's too easy in this way.
If they used another way, like buying all TMs, it would be near the same thing, but you have to gain by yourself, to get your Pokèmon stronger (I hope you'll understand).

Anyway, I'd like to have Sky Attack, Lava Plume, and Volt Tackle as TMs.
And maybe they could use all the past HMs, and something new, to get like 15 HMs! :D


Don't you ever....say 15 Hms again.

Anyway if TMs are still purchaseable, they will probably be more expensive.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire August 9th, 2010 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porygon Z (Post 6053379)
Personally, I hate this thing.
IMHO, it's too easy in this way.
If they used another way, like buying all TMs, it would be near the same thing, but you have to gain by yourself, to get your Pokèmon stronger (I hope you'll understand).

Anyway, I'd like to have Sky Attack, Lava Plume, and Volt Tackle as TMs.
And maybe they could use all the past HMs, and something new, to get like 15 HMs! :D

How would 15 Hm work we are allowed to use one per gym badge...so it wouldn't work :)

Sammuthegreat August 9th, 2010 12:09 PM

If there's one thing I just don't understand about Pokemon, it's why there are still HMs. I mean, Pokemon are living, breathing creatures, that can walk, run, fly, climb... you name it. They don't only exist in-battle like Digimon. So why aren't HM moves tied to Pokemon's stats? There's so many ways HMs could be handled without needing to hamstring our movesets and team setups. I mean, what's the point in having a 6 team spaces available if you can only realistically use 5 due to needing an HM slave to learn all the useless moves that are needed just to get to the end of the game?! And to top it all off, the moves can't even be deleted!!!

It would be so much simpler if a Pokemon's stats and natural assets decided whether or not they were able to use an out-of-battle move. For example:

Cut could be performed by all Pokemon that have claws or blades, or even teeth, and/or a high enough Attack stat.

Fly could be performed by all Pokemon that have wings or can otherwise fly.

Surf could be performed by all Pokemon that can swim, including small ones who could tow the player along behind them.

Strength could be performed by all Pokemon with a high enough Attack stat.

Flash could be performed by all Fire- and Electric-types, as well as a selection of other Pokemon with a high enough Special Attack stat.

Rock Smash could be performed by all Pokemon with a high enough Attack stat, and/or big enough fists/tails/claws to break rocks.

Rock Climb could be performed by all Pokemon with legs and claws that are big enough to carry a person.

Waterfall could be performed by all Pokemon that can swim and have a high enough Speed stat to swim against the flow of a river.

Whirlpool could act in the exact same way as Waterfall.

Defog could be performed by all Flying-type Pokemon, and all those that have wings.

Hell, the bicycle could be replaced by all land-based Pokemon with a high enough Speed stat that are big enough to ride. There could even be different grades of speed so that everyone can ride their favourite; a Rapidash would go at a faster pace than a Swampert, which would in turn go faster than a Snorlax. I mean, who wouldn't rather ride an Arcanine than a bicycle?!

This wouldn't even be difficult to design. As it stands all HMs are learnable by a specific list of Pokemon; this idea would just make that list make sense. And to stay in line with the current system whereby you can't use HMs outside of battle until you earn the relevant badge, the following could be implemented:

You can't perform Cut outside battle until you earn a licence showing that you are competent enough to perform the dangerous operation of cutting down trees - this licence is achieved by earning the first badge.

You can't perform Surf outside battle until you earn a licence showing that you are competent enough to perform the dangerous operation of traversing long stretches of water unaccompanied - this licence is achieved by earning a later badge, etc. etc.

In no way am I expecting that this will be implemented in Black and White, but it just makes so much more sense than the current system that I literally tear my hair out at having to keep a bloody Bibarel on every D/P team I have.

coolnick37 August 9th, 2010 12:17 PM

how can we even be sure that there are going to be HMs this time, maybe they gave up on them, and we havent seen any rocks to smash, or trees to cut in the previews :/
Sammuthegreat, well that idea sounds nice, but its of course impossible, beacause it would take too much to design.....buuut +.+ i would kill to see me riding my favorite pokemon

rocky505 August 9th, 2010 12:40 PM

TMs no longer disappear means no more AR codes for infinite TMs.

Gymnotide August 9th, 2010 1:22 PM

I've already mentioned this idea in a post before, but here it goes again.

Keep HMs in the game, but also make other moves function as HMs out of battle. This means that you would still need the proper badge to use the move outside of battle, just like HMs. Different attacks have different "Overworld Effects," that I like to call "Skills." Say if you had the attack Slash. It would grant you the Skill to "remove shrubbery" on the overworld. The same would be true for Cut, obviously. HMs are merely there so that you can always have an HM to teach to a Pokemon in case you need it, since not all teams might have the right combination of attacks to navigate the world. Pokemon Abilities should also grant Skills, if appropriate.

Different moves grant different Skills, as listed below.

Remove shrubbery: Cut, Slash, Scratch, Psycho Cut, Night Slash, Air Cutter, Air Slash, X-Scissor, Razor Wind, Magical Leaf and any other move involving cutting or slashing. This will remove the need to use the Cut HM since there are so many cutting moves, but the HM will still be in-game in case you don't have any of those moves on your Pokemon.

Move on water: Surf, Muddy Water, Water Sport, etc. There aren't many moves that fit the right description, but Surf is already such a good attack that it's very much preferred. In addition, Pokemon with the Swift Swim ability should be able to bypass requiring a move.

Scale waterfalls: Waterfall, Aqua Jet, etc.

Move boulders: Strength, Superpower, Bulk Up, Psychic, Confusion, Power Whip, etc. With the addition of Psychic-type moves as well as just pure strength moves, Strength is a lot easier to use on the overworld. In addition, Pokemon with Huge Power or Pure Power, etc. have the ability to do this innately.

Dispel darkness: Flash, Flash Cannon, Doom Desire, Signal Beam, Flamethrower, Tail Glow, and any other attack that involves or uses light, barring most electrical attacks. In addition, any Pokemon with Illuminate or Flash Fire has this ability already.

Travel to another town: Fly, Teleport, Dig, Sky Attack, Tailwind, etc.

Smash boulders: Rock Smash, Cross Chop, Karate Chop, Force Palm (most Fighting-type moves, actually), Crush Grip, Crush Claw, Mega Punch (most punching moves), Head Smash, Rock Wrecker, Rock Blast, etc. Since Rock Smash is greatly useless, it is good to have a lot of bash type moves to compensate for it.

Ram a tree: Headbutt, Zen Headbutt, Tackle, Volt Tackle, etc.

PoketalkCreator August 9th, 2010 1:43 PM

For me, I like it a little bit. I know it makes the games easier, which I kinda like. And also, how can we be absolutely sure that they will last FOREVER like the HMs? Maybe they expire at a certain point.

lucaspontes_7 August 9th, 2010 4:32 PM

Like some people said, it would be too easy if you could use a TM forever. They could make something like, if you use a TM before beating the main storyline, it won't disappear but you won't be able to use it again. After you beat the main storyline, you could "recycle" the TM. Also, limiting the number of times, like 2 "recycles" for every TM would be good.

Planetes. August 9th, 2010 5:59 PM

The TMs will probably be harder to obtain, now that they are infinite use, I think

Karel_Kazuki August 9th, 2010 6:04 PM

GUys,No matter how"Obvious" your"Logic " or "Ideas" are, it wont happen.

There are somethings that Game Freak has stuck by over the Years,Gyms,TMs,HMs, and an evil team to name a few.

We all EXPECT those things because every Generation has had them.Its no turning back on the roots for which the basis was brought upon.

Now Get this Logic. THe Point of Having HMs is not for the moveset, but because it KEEPS you from advancing to the parts of the story you arent supposed to.Thats why you can obtain Cut but cant chop a tree yet but use it in battle.Remember in GSC how you could get Whirlpool but couldnt use it because you didnt have Jasmine's badge ?Or yo u obtained Surf from the Kimono girls but didnt have Morty's Badge?IT is for those reasons that you couldnt reach those areas.

Now lets think of it on a designers side.You Dont wanna spoil the story, but you somehow test to see what would happen if you gave a person the HM early, or as you would say,Let a Pokemon already know the "skill",It already allows you to access the towns , basically ruining the story line.Game Designing only goes so far and Game Freak uses just about the same scripts every game,just adds a little extra in each Generation.Maybe they havent gotten the technology where they can give that to the pokemon without ruining the story, and to me, it sounds impossible.I Know, its my majoring subject right now.So stop trying to say how supposedly pointless the HMS have been because its suupposed to be SPECULATION in this thread.ITs already been announced that there are TMs and HMS, so please stop.

On a new note,I was hoping that the moves with special abilities(I.E.Teleport, Dig,Sweet Scent(from 3rd Gen) would take the place of Hms like Whirlpool because I haven't seen a Sea Route yet.Its could be possible they cut it out.I mean look at the Isshu map...Its basically all land except the islands south of the Starter's town,which only looks accessable by boat.

Zelda August 9th, 2010 6:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoketalkCreator (Post 6054096)
For me, I like it a little bit. I know it makes the games easier, which I kinda like. And also, how can we be absolutely sure that they will last FOREVER like the HMs? Maybe they expire at a certain point.

I don't see a need for TM's to expire. :x Sure, since they'll be an infinite use it won't give us a challenge to go trade for them but, it helps others who don't have good things to trade in return.
If TM's last forever like HM's, I don't see that being a problem..o o It actually will be a relief for many since the only thing we can do is trade for them or obtain them by spending hours playing Game Corner games or battling the Battle Frontier for points to get them.

If they weren't going to last forever I'd be use to it since that's happened all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceDragonite (Post 6054773)
The TMs will probably be harder to obtain, now that they are infinite use, I think

This will make more of a challenge for those who want more challenge, but on the other hand there is a lot of TM's to be obtained so I'm not totally sure either. xD;

Zeturic August 9th, 2010 6:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karel_Kazuki (Post 6054793)
GUys,No matter how"Obvious" your"Logic " or "Ideas" are, it wont happen.

There are somethings that Game Freak has stuck by over the Years,Gyms,TMs,HMs, and an evil team to name a few.

We all EXPECT those things because every Generation has had them.Its no turning back on the roots for which the basis was brought upon.

Now Get this Logic. THe Point of Having HMs is not for the moveset, but because it KEEPS you from advancing to the parts of the story you arent supposed to.Thats why you can obtain Cut but cant chop a tree yet but use it in battle.Remember in GSC how you could get Whirlpool but couldnt use it because you didnt have Jasmine's badge ?Or yo u obtained Surf from the Kimono girls but didnt have Morty's Badge?IT is for those reasons that you couldnt reach those areas.

Now lets think of it on a designers side.You Dont wanna spoil the story, but you somehow test to see what would happen if you gave a person the HM early, or as you would say,Let a Pokemon already know the "skill",It already allows you to access the towns , basically ruining the story line.Game Designing only goes so far and Game Freak uses just about the same scripts every game,just adds a little extra in each Generation.Maybe they havent gotten the technology where they can give that to the pokemon without ruining the story, and to me, it sounds impossible.I Know, its my majoring subject right now.So stop trying to say how supposedly pointless the HMS have been because its suupposed to be SPECULATION in this thread.ITs already been announced that there are TMs and HMS, so please stop.

On a new note,I was hoping that the moves with special abilities(I.E.Teleport, Dig,Sweet Scent(from 3rd Gen) would take the place of Hms like Whirlpool because I haven't seen a Sea Route yet.Its could be possible they cut it out.I mean look at the Isshu map...Its basically all land except the islands south of the Starter's town,which only looks accessable by boat.

Pay attention. There. Did you see it? After a punctuation mark, you put a space before continuing typing.

Other than that, nothing you said made any sense. The people were saying that the better TMs (Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, etc.) will be harder to obtain because they are multi-use.

Yes, HMs were used for exploration. So? Also, you're forgetting something - you need badges to use HMs. Which, is really irrelevant to the rarity of TMs.

Karel_Kazuki August 9th, 2010 6:36 PM

If you would look at some of the posts on the last page or even Gymnotide's post,You'd see what I'm talking about.This doesn't refer to whoever is speaking about TMs.and BTW it says TMs/ HMs so they can be discussed too.

Charizard★ August 9th, 2010 6:51 PM

Wow. Finally. I love TM reusable idea XD

austy14 August 9th, 2010 10:53 PM

I think it would also be cool if they kept the HM system for out of battle purposes, but they should also let you use any move out of battle. These moves might not do anything but maybe a special little graphics show... like, your pokemon uses fire balst and a blast of fire appears in front of you. Now bullet seed would have a purpose, cus you could spit seeds at people (even if it just looks like it though nothing happens) you could also do this to affect the way buildings/trees look while you're there, like burnt trees and puddles! They would disappear when you change route/tpwn though.

WarpstarX August 9th, 2010 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever (Post 6052984)


Also. I actually hope they decrease the amount of TMs, low level ones as mentioned in MRAS' post (bullet seed) are... sort of not necessary.

Since Tm's are "movable" items they kinda have to keep every single TM we've had before so there WILL be 90+ TM's. Every non key item from the 3rd & 4th gen onwards has to be in forth generation (even the useless ones).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karel_Kazuki (Post 6054793)
GUys,No matter how"Obvious" your"Logic " or "Ideas" are, it wont happen.

There are somethings that Game Freak has stuck by over the Years,Gyms,TMs,HMs, and an evil team to name a few.

We all EXPECT those things because every Generation has had them.Its no turning back on the roots for which the basis was brought upon.

Now Get this Logic. THe Point of Having HMs is not for the moveset, but because it KEEPS you from advancing to the parts of the story you arent supposed to.

That makes sense but then they could use the whole "broken bridge"/"fallen tree"/ or you can not advance because a minor inconvenience crap.

Ninja Caterpie August 10th, 2010 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarpstarX (Post 6055529)
That makes sense but then they could use the whole "broken bridge"/"fallen tree"/ or you can not advance because a minor inconvenience crap.

That's sooo LegendOfZelda/MarioRPG/FinalFantasy/EveryOtherRPG.

I also don't understand this bull about killing competitive battling. Are you saying trading to get more of a TM kills it? o_o obviously, whoever reckons multiple of the one move on a team overpowers it has never played real competitive battling. 'specially with SR, because nobody in their right mind wastes slots on SR.

And I dislike the idea of a complete TM overhaul. It's also not possible, because it's been confirmed (has it?) that we can transfer Pokemon from DPPt/HGSS to this. Thus, we must keep the TMs, or we'd get a billion illegal move combos, like Breloom with Thunderpunch + Poison Heal from DPPt era.

Volroc August 10th, 2010 12:27 AM

Personally i think only these should be TMs/HMs:

Attack Moves [37]:
Spoiler:

Flamethrower
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Energy Ball
Dragon Pulse
Dark Pulse
Psychic
Dragon Claw
Sludge Bomb
Flash Cannon
Iron Head
Earthquake
Earth Power
Thief (just cuz i like to steal items :P)
Aerial Ace
Air Slash
False Swipe
Brick Break
Aura sphere
Shadow Claw
Shadow Ball
Signal Beam
X-Scissor
Psycho Cut
Seed Bomb
Thunder Punch
Fire Punch
Ice Punch
Tri Attack
Strength
Facade
Surf
Waterfall
Fly
Cut
Rock Climb
Dive
(Hidden Power should come from a Move tutor,who tells you the pokemons HP& its strength after you teach it to it)


Status Moves [23]:
Spoiler:

Substitute
Calm Mind
Bulk Up
Toxic
Nasty Plot
Swords Dance
Recover
Roost
Synthesis
Trick Room
Dragon Dance
Hail
Sunny Day
Rain Dance
Sandstorm
Taunt
Baton Pass
Wish
Recycle [and a whole increase on pokemon who can use it,theres not that many]
Gravity
Flash
Double Team
Foresight



Basically at least 1physical&special move for each type, a few strategic attack moves.
then the most commonly used Status moves, a few nice In-game Status moves, and 7 HMs being turned into TMs: Surf,Waterfall,Strength,Cut,Flash (already done in gen4),Rock Climb,& Dive.

feel free to quote& edit to your preferences ^_^
but i did this in a, non-competitive way/ competitive way
kept the status moves, but got rid of the over used attacks, & attacks with no effect, no use, or just with bad accuracy.

Haza August 10th, 2010 12:31 AM

There should also be some weaker TMs for the basic staged Pokemon during the early gameplay. Anyway, I really like the fact that you dont have to find more after you use it once, or hack to get 995 of every TM.

Ninja Caterpie August 10th, 2010 12:34 AM

Also, those who say Bullet Seed sucks...well, consider the place that you get it in-game. In RSE, it was really well placed. The only grass move you have at that point is Absorb, which generally sucks more than Bullet Seed. :| In DPPt, it sucked because the grass-types you can find have better moves, but in RSE...it was good.

*Minun* August 10th, 2010 1:18 AM

Haha... I find it funny how Japan is pretty much the most technically advanced place in the world and then when gamefreak sets the game in New York TMs are improved amazingly.

Also, this will probably take the number of TMs up to 100 or more. That would be cool.

And even if they made TMs harder to get or more expensive it would be pointless in the end because you could just make your Gen 4 pokemon hold all the hard to get TMs and send them over after the main storyline. Unless they didn't allow that.

King Gumball August 10th, 2010 2:25 AM

With tMs not running out training pokemon how I want them to be will be much easier. Much, much better addition to this new gen. I love it!

Ho-Oh August 10th, 2010 2:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarpstarX (Post 6055529)
Since Tm's are "movable" items they kinda have to keep every single TM we've had before so there WILL be 90+ TM's. Every non key item from the 3rd & 4th gen onwards has to be in forth generation (even the useless ones).

Yeaaah but I'm thinking that maybe some TMs could just become moves, it... would make it easier to remember the amount of TMs tbh. :( Either way just wishful thinking probably.

Sammuthegreat August 10th, 2010 3:22 AM

Ok... I'm gonna go ahead and quote bits of what you said, and then quote the bits of my previous post that you clearly did not read.

From you:

Quote:

GUys,No matter how"Obvious" your"Logic " or "Ideas" are, it wont happen.

There are somethings that Game Freak has stuck by over the Years,Gyms,TMs,HMs, and an evil team to name a few.

We all EXPECT those things because every Generation has had them.Its no turning back on the roots for which the basis was brought upon.
From me:

Quote:

In no way am I expecting that this will be implemented in Black and White
From you:

Quote:

Now Get this Logic. THe Point of Having HMs is not for the moveset, but because it KEEPS you from advancing to the parts of the story you arent supposed to.Thats why you can obtain Cut but cant chop a tree yet but use it in battle.Remember in GSC how you could get Whirlpool but couldnt use it because you didnt have Jasmine's badge ?Or yo u obtained Surf from the Kimono girls but didnt have Morty's Badge?IT is for those reasons that you couldnt reach those areas.
From me:

Quote:

And to stay in line with the current system whereby you can't use HMs outside of battle until you earn the relevant badge, the following could be implemented:

You can't perform Cut outside battle until you earn a licence showing that you are competent enough to perform the dangerous operation of cutting down trees - this licence is achieved by earning the first badge.

You can't perform Surf outside battle until you earn a licence showing that you are competent enough to perform the dangerous operation of traversing long stretches of water unaccompanied - this licence is achieved by earning a later badge, etc. etc.
So in fact, I had thought of everything you claimed that I had not. Maybe read through my obvious ideas and logic before putting them in quotation marks and ridiculing them.

Weavile05 August 10th, 2010 5:25 AM

I would atleast like forgettable HMs, so that if you went into some deep forest, got to the exit, needed cut to get through, and the only pokemon in your party that could use it was your best pokemon (you know, something you don't want to teach cut to) and you don't have to waste your time going to a move deleter and you can just replace it with either a TM or the next move your pokemon learns. Either that or a move deleter item.

Itstoppedatumbreon August 10th, 2010 5:33 AM

wats the point in HMs then if threy do the same as a TM?

Dominus Temporis August 10th, 2010 5:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itstoppedatumbreon (Post 6055944)
wats the point in HMs then if threy do the same as a TM?

You... have played the games, yes? Field moves? That's what makes them unique, the ability to get around obstacles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Caterpie (Post 6055548)
And I dislike the idea of a complete TM overhaul. It's also not possible, because it's been confirmed (has it?) that we can transfer Pokemon from DPPt/HGSS to this. Thus, we must keep the TMs, or we'd get a billion illegal move combos, like Breloom with Thunderpunch + Poison Heal from DPPt era.

Yeah, it's been confirmed. Besides, not only is your point correct, but we also have to consider that, y'know, with the whole "transferring-Pokemon" minigame like in Gen IV, the TM list needs to be the same since we can transfer items with Pokemon as well. I'd predict... oh, another fifty or so TMs at least? We got around forty additional from the third-to-fourth generation switch.

Karel_Kazuki August 10th, 2010 2:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammuthegreat (Post 6055739)
Ok... I'm gonna go ahead and quote bits of what you said, and then quote the bits of my previous post that you clearly did not read.

From you:



From me:



From you:



From me:



So in fact, I had thought of everything you claimed that I had not. Maybe read through my obvious ideas and logic before putting them in quotation marks and ridiculing them.

Dude, what you are saying is what Game Freak Has done.

THe License you are talking about?The badges.
Note that after every Gym battle they say, the badges now allows you to use(HM) now.That is already implemented.The license design you speak of would just take up Kilobytes for what could be used for something else.


So what you are talking about needing a license for is already done and therefore null.Understand what you say and look at what has been done already.

pkmn.master August 10th, 2010 3:22 PM

Looks like someone actually created a CD player that won't break the CDs...
I like the idea as a competetive battler. When I try to make additions to my team, I find that I use TMs like Earthquake many times. Writing a cheak for 80 battle points is terrible. Getting those is time consuming. A limit to TMs isn't a great idea. There are hundreds of new TMs and people can just trade their Pokemon from HG/SS holding other TMs. I wonder if you'll be able to sell them?

Gardenia101 August 10th, 2010 4:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkmn.master (Post 6057292)
Looks like someone actually created a CD player that won't break the CDs...
I like the idea as a competetive battler. When I try to make additions to my team, I find that I use TMs like Earthquake many times. Writing a cheak for 80 battle points is terrible. Getting those is time consuming. A limit to TMs isn't a great idea. There are hundreds of new TMs and people can just trade their Pokemon from HG/SS holding other TMs. I wonder if you'll be able to sell them?

Well, if you could it would be worth alot of money

That or you wouldn't be able to at all.

Although some of the better, rarer ones could be impossible to sell but the useless ones would be sellable (Like the Moonstones in the Earlier games)

MistahDude August 10th, 2010 5:22 PM

They might just make it harder to get TMs

Blueknight August 10th, 2010 6:40 PM

Now I can re-use those pesky TM's that only come once. (Drain Punch, Charge Beam) or those that cost BP/coins. (Ice Beam, Earthquake) Uuugh I hated those.

They may just add another 50 new TM's or something. Because that's so many, they don't want to add so ways to recollect them all.

ArkansasRazorback August 10th, 2010 7:17 PM

I hate the itemfinder...they better not make it to where you have to use it more

Karel_Kazuki August 10th, 2010 7:33 PM

I just noticed that 92 plus 8 Hms =100, so They could add either an extra 50 or Change around the ones already made.

Cyberglass August 10th, 2010 7:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 6057820)
But who says they're going to use already existing TMs? I would imagine since they're starting fresh, that they would just add a new bunch of TMs that we've never seen before...but then again I doubt this would happen, this would be like, a complete renovation from it's predecessors.

They have to use the already existing TMs, since we can transfer Pokemon, and therefore items, from Gen. 4. It wouldn't make sense to have the TM change its attack when it transfers over.

dragon0fangz August 10th, 2010 9:13 PM

Make every move a TM. No, that would be crazy. but just imagine. also, have more tms available really early, like Return was in Platinum. So i dont have to deal with Scratch for the next 10 levels or so.
Also, I highly doubt you can transfer items over. You couldn't in Pal Park. (to my knowledge)

Sammuthegreat August 11th, 2010 1:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karel_Kazuki (Post 6057162)
Dude, what you are saying is what Game Freak Has done.

THe License you are talking about?The badges.
Note that after every Gym battle they say, the badges now allows you to use(HM) now.That is already implemented.The license design you speak of would just take up Kilobytes for what could be used for something else.


So what you are talking about needing a license for is already done and therefore null.Understand what you say and look at what has been done already.

*FACEPALM FACEPALM FACEPALM*

No. You're not listening to me. You still clearly haven't read my whole original post. I have actually played every generation of Pokemon games, and therefore am completely aware that the Badges do what I have suggested the licences could.

My licences suggestion was a way of keeping the current system, whereby badges allow HM moves to be used outside of battle - as I stated in this part of the post:

Quote:

And to stay in line with the current system whereby you can't use HMs outside of battle until you earn the relevant badge, the following could be implemented:
... but giving a sensible, slightly more believable explanation for why you'd have to wait a certain while to perform such moves outside of battle.

Again if you'd read my post, you'd know that I only suggested "Licences" because it makes no sense for a Pokemon that could innately swim, for example, to suddenly be able to swim after earning a badge. A Seaking doesn't suddenly learn how to swim when it beats an arbitrary Gym. That's why I suggested licences - your Seaking could swim all along, but you as a trainer are only allowed to ride the Seaking when you've proven yourself to be a strong enough trainer to handle the responsibility of undertaking dangerous sea voyages unaccompanied - that is, by earning a licence proving your competence. The mechanics would remain exactly the same - i.e. to use an out-of-battle move, you have to beat a Gym - and you can call them licences or badges, it really doesn't matter because they perform the exact same function either way. At least my explanation makes sense though, unlike the current one - you shouldn't need to teach a fish how to swim, or to teach a dragon how to use its claws to cut down a tree, or to teach a big strong Pokemon like Machamp how to apply its power to move a stone. Therefore HMs make no sense and should be abolished in favour of innate out-of-battle abilities.

There really would be no major upheaval to the game mechanics; my idea would simply remove an unnecessary inconvenience. And how much better would it be to ride an Arcanine or a Suicune across the land than a bike... How much better would it be to actually be towed behind your favourite Squirtle instead of sitting on a random Wailmer sprite when you surf... And most importantly, how much better would it be if your Charmeleon could Cut down a tree using the claws it was born with instead of having to waste a valuable move slot with a useless move!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon0fangz (Post 6058168)

Also, I highly doubt you can transfer items over. You couldn't in Pal Park. (to my knowledge)

You could, which was fortunate, because it meant I got a whole load of Psychic/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Flamethrower TMs onto my Diamond game for free...

Gymnotide August 11th, 2010 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammuthegreat (Post 6058518)
*FACEPALM FACEPALM FACEPALM*

No. You're not listening to me. You still clearly haven't read my whole original post. I have actually played every generation of Pokemon games, and therefore am completely aware that the Badges do what I have suggested the licences could.

My licences suggestion was a way of keeping the current system, whereby badges allow HM moves to be used outside of battle - as I stated in this part of the post:



... but giving a sensible, slightly more believable explanation for why you'd have to wait a certain while to perform such moves outside of battle.

Again if you'd read my post, you'd know that I only suggested "Licences" because it makes no sense for a Pokemon that could innately swim, for example, to suddenly be able to swim after earning a badge. A Seaking doesn't suddenly learn how to swim when it beats an arbitrary Gym. That's why I suggested licences - your Seaking could swim all along, but you as a trainer are only allowed to ride the Seaking when you've proven yourself to be a strong enough trainer to handle the responsibility of undertaking dangerous sea voyages unaccompanied - that is, by earning a licence proving your competence. The mechanics would remain exactly the same - i.e. to use an out-of-battle move, you have to beat a Gym - and you can call them licences or badges, it really doesn't matter because they perform the exact same function either way. At least my explanation makes sense though, unlike the current one - you shouldn't need to teach a fish how to swim, or to teach a dragon how to use its claws to cut down a tree, or to teach a big strong Pokemon like Machamp how to apply its power to move a stone. Therefore HMs make no sense and should be abolished in favour of innate out-of-battle abilities.

There really would be no major upheaval to the game mechanics; my idea would simply remove an unnecessary inconvenience. And how much better would it be to ride an Arcanine or a Suicune across the land than a bike... How much better would it be to actually be towed behind your favourite Squirtle instead of sitting on a random Wailmer sprite when you surf... And most importantly, how much better would it be if your Charmeleon could Cut down a tree using the claws it was born with instead of having to waste a valuable move slot with a useless move!?



You could, which was fortunate, because it meant I got a whole load of Psychic/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Flamethrower TMs onto my Diamond game for free...

tl;dr -- Badges are licenses. You try to use Scyther's sharp blades to cut down a shrub that blocks your path. A police officer comes along and asks you for your license. You show them your badge. That's how it's supposed to work in the games.

big NATE alpha August 11th, 2010 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceDragonite (Post 6053040)
every gen has a TM overhaul....


Anyway, I can sense them making us do a Wi-Fi mission for Eartquake or Giga Impact, I really hope they sell Giga Impact though

Actually... no. They just added TMs in Gen IV, the first 50 were the same as R/S/E/FR/LG.

I want a TM for Signal Beam. It's a Bug move that's actually GOOD for a change...

Karel_Kazuki August 11th, 2010 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gymnotide (Post 6059111)
tl;dr -- Badges are licenses. You try to use Scyther's sharp blades to cut down a shrub that blocks your path. A police officer comes along and asks you for your license. You show them your badge. That's how it's supposed to work in the games.

THANK YOU.
What you are trying to explain is doing nothing but wasting memory on the Game Card.WE ALL KNOW THATS WHAT BADGES ARE FOR.(sorry for caps, I'm Lazy right now.)

Why else would Gym Leaders take the time to say "Pokemon up to(insert level cap here)can now obey you."Thats a sign showing that they are capable of listening to you and they show whatever you are talking about enough to use the HM.

Sammuthegreat August 11th, 2010 1:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gymnotide (Post 6059111)
tl;dr -- Badges are licenses. You try to use Scyther's sharp blades to cut down a shrub that blocks your path. A police officer comes along and asks you for your license. You show them your badge. That's how it's supposed to work in the games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karel_Kazuki (Post 6059487)
THANK YOU.
What you are trying to explain is doing nothing but wasting memory on the Game Card.WE ALL KNOW THATS WHAT BADGES ARE FOR.(sorry for caps, I'm Lazy right now.)

Why else would Gym Leaders take the time to say "Pokemon up to(insert level cap here)can now obey you."Thats a sign showing that they are capable of listening to you and they show whatever you are talking about enough to use the HM.

OH. MY. GOD. I'm sorry I'm getting so frustrated but you're just not getting what I'm saying. I'll try and spell it out as clearly as I can, because I've clearly not done so yet.

Badges = Licences. Yes. I get that. I knew that from the start. I honestly don't give a flying !"($* what you call the things, "licence" was just a placeholder name. I wish I'd said badges instead of licences now, because it honestly makes no difference to me, they perform the same function. I want to keep the system whereby you can't use an HM move outside of battle before you earn a certain badge.

That wasn't even my original point. Now I've clarified that I already understood from the very beginning everything you've said, I can try to make my actual point a bit more clearly.

What I do not like about the game is that you are forced to teach your Pokemon a move in order for them to be capable of performing an action that they should be able to do naturally. It doesn't make any sense to me. To go back to my original example, there's no reason whatsoever that a Seaking should need to be taught how to swim. It's a fish, for God's sake. It knows how to already. Similarly, a Scyther already knows how to cut things; it has scythes for arms. It should not need to be taught how to cut things. A Pidgeot is a bird. It should not need to be taught how to Fly.

Now do you understand my point?

If there were no HMs, then this bizarre piece of illogic would no longer exist in the games. Your Pidgeot has always been able to Fly, but only once you earn Badge X are you allowed to use it outside of battle. If you have to teach a Pidgeot how to use Fly, then that suggests that the Pidgeot did not know how to fly beforehand, which is ludicrous.

Note that this system is exactly the same as the current system in that you need badges (NOT LICENCES, just to avoid confusion) to perform certain actions. But your Seaking ceases to be a fish that doesn't naturally understand how to swim.

I'm not suggesting any sort of major overhaul to the battle system, and this would not take up any extra memory on the game chip. I would like the current HM moves - Surf, Strength etc. - to remain in-battle moves. I just do not understand the logic behind making them moves that have to be taught in order for you to use them outside of battle.

I hope you understand now. Just please don't quote me and then state how "badge" and "licence" mean the same thing, because I might just have a stroke.

Dominus Temporis August 11th, 2010 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon0fangz (Post 6058168)
Also, I highly doubt you can transfer items over. You couldn't in Pal Park. (to my knowledge)

Um... yes you can. My multiple legitimately-gained Master Balls gotten from this method in Diamond are proof of that. Go try it yourself if you don't believe me.

I'm gonna say what I said the first time- we'll have the same TM set as the last generation (except maybe some HMs changed to different moves), along with some added TMs. That's the only way they can keep proper continuity with cross-gen transfers.

austy14 August 11th, 2010 2:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weavile05 (Post 6055925)
I would atleast like forgettable HMs, so that if you went into some deep forest, got to the exit, needed cut to get through, and the only pokemon in your party that could use it was your best pokemon (you know, something you don't want to teach cut to) and you don't have to waste your time going to a move deleter and you can just replace it with either a TM or the next move your pokemon learns. Either that or a move deleter item.

If they did this, you could surf to a little sandbar and make your surf pokemon forget surf. Then you would be stranded... unless you taught it again which completely defeats the purpose. That's why they made HMs unforgettable. Also lets say you were in the middle of surfing and you made the Pokemon forget it... would you just drown? Your Pokemon can't swim anymore! You'd be stuck, again.

And for Pokemon holding TMs... they could make them not allowed, the way HM knowing Pokemon weren't allowed to transfer to D/P/Pt.

Karel_Kazuki August 11th, 2010 3:10 PM

While I understand Your arguement, As I always have,then what would be the point of straegically having a moveset that only allows for moves?That is part of the strategy of the game.Knowing what HMS are good for what pokemon and having a team that can dominate while having said HMs.Its all apart of the trategy Game Freak has Subliminally designed for us to have.If that was possible, I would feel pretty much cheated that, "Why couldnt Cut be a move? or something?"We know that the HMS are powerful moves and you are making them sound like skills.IIf that were the Case, then we could never be able to use fly in battle because its only four moves a set and with the powerful SURF or FLY out of the way(which is one of my favorite moves),Then it would be a free space for moves.I guess I understand the idea, but it wouldnt just feel right now that game freak is far in the game.

austy14 August 11th, 2010 11:42 PM

I think some pokemon should just be able to have the obvious ability, like birds flying and fish swimming. But you have a choice to teach the move! Though that's probably too much to ask and would be weird.

Sammuthegreat August 12th, 2010 1:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karel_Kazuki (Post 6059887)
While I understand Your arguement, As I always have,then what would be the point of straegically having a moveset that only allows for moves?That is part of the strategy of the game.Knowing what HMS are good for what pokemon and having a team that can dominate while having said HMs.Its all apart of the trategy Game Freak has Subliminally designed for us to have.If that was possible, I would feel pretty much cheated that, "Why couldnt Cut be a move? or something?"We know that the HMS are powerful moves and you are making them sound like skills.IIf that were the Case, then we could never be able to use fly in battle because its only four moves a set and with the powerful SURF or FLY out of the way(which is one of my favorite moves),Then it would be a free space for moves.I guess I understand the idea, but it wouldnt just feel right now that game freak is far in the game.


Aha, now we're getting somewhere. Apologies for getting so worked up if you understood my point all along.

As for your point, I agree. Why shouldn't Fly and Cut and Strength all still be moves? I'm totally on board with that, which is what austy14 suggests in this post:


Quote:

Originally Posted by austy14 (Post 6060932)
I think some pokemon should just be able to have the obvious ability, like birds flying and fish swimming. But you have a choice to teach the move! Though that's probably too much to ask and would be weird.

I personally don't think it's weird. Current HMs could be "relegated" to normal TM status, so the in-battle moves Surf, Fly etc. are still just that - in-battle moves, like any other ordinary attack. The out-of-battle part of the moves, however, does not need to be taught; it isn't even a move, it's more just an ability.

Again, to hark back to my very first post on the matter, I don't think this will happen in Black and White, if ever. I just personally feel it would make so much more sense than the system GameFreak did decide to use, and I wish they'd used this system way back in Red/Green/Blue.

MistahDude August 12th, 2010 2:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Sky (Post 6057753)
Well I honestly don't see why this would turn out to be the case. It would make building teams a much harder aspect for people, and I don't see why they'd make it harder. What I personally don't hope they would do is screw with the method of obtaining TMs such as they did with HG/SS with the removal of the game corner. >> Lets keep this game American and American only.

Those who live in Europe have their own versions of the game(I hope I'm not causing offense to anyone in Europe, it's not your fault, it's NoE most likely), and people in America have theirs.

I was talking about higher prices for TMs and possibly higher point values in Battle Frontier places.

Ho-Oh August 12th, 2010 6:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austy14 (Post 6060932)
I think some pokemon should just be able to have the obvious ability, like birds flying and fish swimming. But you have a choice to teach the move! Though that's probably too much to ask and would be weird.

Yeah but then that won't cover the other water/flying types, who fit into that category but aren't birds or fish. Then that'd mean Geodude, etc, would need to naturally have strength and since they aren't creatures...

Sammuthegreat August 12th, 2010 8:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever (Post 6061584)


Yeah but then that won't cover the other water/flying types, who fit into that category but aren't birds or fish. Then that'd mean Geodude, etc, would need to naturally have strength and since they aren't creatures...

It'd be very easy to do. Think about it - currently there is a list of Pokemon that can learn Surf. Those would be the Pokemon that would have the "ability" to swim. Similarly Strength, Cut and all the other HMs.

Ho-Oh August 12th, 2010 8:06 AM

Yeah but that post was in relation to real-life things, such as fish literally swimming, etc.

It could work if it wasn't based entirely on real-life (for that idea, at least).

Westie7 August 12th, 2010 8:16 AM

Reusable TMs, eh?

This is both good and bad for me. It means we're probably going to have to try a lot harder to find them, but they're reusable. So helpful and harmful.

For HMs, as long as we still have access to Surf and Waterfall for (nearly) all Water Pokemon, Fly for all Flying Pokemon, and Strength in some way or another, it's fine with me.

Planetes. August 12th, 2010 8:42 AM

I wouldn't mind HMs if you could delete them easily, but alas you have to go through nearly the entire game until you get to the move deleter.
I hope the Tms are hard to find though, it will add a challenge. They might put one up as a reward for a Wi-Fi quest.

Ho-Oh August 12th, 2010 8:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceDragonite (Post 6061957)
I hope the Tms are hard to find though, it will add a challenge. They might put one up as a reward for a Wi-Fi quest.

There are some who don't have wifi though, which would make it hard for them. D:

Planetes. August 12th, 2010 9:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever (Post 6061979)

There are some who don't have wifi though, which would make it hard for them. D:


wait, U haven't figured out that nintendo is EVIL yet?
They could give a crap who has Wi-Fi, I don't have Wi-Fi and I don't like it one bit.
Nintendo would stash away earthquake in a Wi-Fi mission if it made them money.

Ho-Oh August 12th, 2010 9:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceDragonite (Post 6062131)
wait, U haven't figured out that nintendo is EVIL yet?
They could give a crap who has Wi-Fi, I don't have Wi-Fi and I don't like it one bit.
Nintendo would stash away earthquake in a Wi-Fi mission if it made them money.

...you may think they're evil, but there is something called being fair. The good TMs would have at least two options to obtain them, as opposed to a TM that isn't that known/good, which would be more likely to be in this "wifi mission".

Precious Tears August 12th, 2010 10:06 AM

I love this idea--TMs don't disappear after using...
But I don't think we should put up a smile on our faces yet...
There are chances that new moves will replace some TMs,
and they can be our long-time favorite Ice Beam to the new favorite Stealth Rock :'(...
If they are really gon' change the TMs;
I just hope they'll take out the useless ones like Bullet Seed, Natural Gift etc...
Not the most fav ones!!

MegaKuriboh August 12th, 2010 10:10 AM

YESSS!!! TMs no longer break after use!!!
Thank you Game Freak!!!!!!!

Livewire August 12th, 2010 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceDragonite (Post 6062131)
wait, U haven't figured out that nintendo is EVIL yet?
They could give a crap who has Wi-Fi, I don't have Wi-Fi and I don't like it one bit.
Nintendo would stash away earthquake in a Wi-Fi mission if it made them money.

You can get Earthquake, like, 4 different ways in HGSS, just saying.

Nintendo isnt evil either, they're a corporation, and they need to make money, just like everybody else. And a nintendo wifi connection isnt that hard to obtain.

austy14 August 12th, 2010 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever (Post 6061584)

Yeah but then that won't cover the other water/flying types, who fit into that category but aren't birds or fish. Then that'd mean Geodude, etc, would need to naturally have strength and since they aren't creatures...

I was just using birds and fish as examples, but of course other pokemon with the ability should be able to. Like snorlax swimming, or tropius flying. And it would go to all of the HMs... like geodudes using strength and whatnot. But baybe, for whatever reason, lets say your pokemon couldn't do the skill with you untill you got a certaain badge, then you could magically surf whenever you wanted.

Human August 12th, 2010 4:33 PM

The TM's thing is a welcome change, I think. Too many TM's for common moves seen in battle - like Toxic, Earthquake, or Ice Beam - are scarcely available in the games, or cost a million BP to get.

Mr. X August 13th, 2010 12:55 PM

Good idea but will really kill competive battling.

Perhaps introducing a new class, such as STM? (Super--TM)

The current tm's would be classified by power and ability. Hyperbeam would be a STM, as would Toxic. While your weak bullet seed would be a regular tm.

Regular tms can be reused as much as you like but your STMs would be one time use.

Examples of STM's would be hyper beam, solar beam, overheat, toxic, any hp recovery moves, any ohk moves, and certian other moves.

Edit - Having the elemental hypers as tm's would be nice.

Timbjerr August 13th, 2010 1:03 PM

I see the benefits for building competitively viable wifi teams and appreciate it, but it does remove a lot of the strategy in picking and choosing attacks for you in-game team, making it a bit too easy imo. Perhaps it could be like all the TMs you get during the main quest will be standard one-time use and all the TMs you have left or that you acquire after the E4 will be infinite use. :P

Impo August 13th, 2010 4:58 PM

yaya! reusable tm's :D
they better be easy to find,
it took me forever to get explosion and earthquake in pearl
and there was only one of each :(

and i think there will be a move to make your opponent freeze,
maybe something like icy stare or something :P

Ho-Oh August 14th, 2010 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Impo (Post 6067841)
and i think there will be a move to make your opponent freeze,
maybe something like icy stare or something :P

Although this doesn't exactly relate to TMs, and instead moves, I agree. Though I'm sure there are other moves that can cover it...

Kanto_Johto August 14th, 2010 10:51 AM

TMs don't break when you use them. God dammit.

Am I the only one who is extremely dissapointed with this feature? They're making the games waaayyyy too easy these days.

Amore August 14th, 2010 10:54 AM

I'm guessing they'll cut down on the amount of tms.....maybe 50 again, maybe less.

I love this idea though! I'll deffo be getting the games now I know about this and seasons..


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