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-   -   5th Gen TMs & HMs Discussion (https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=228545)

Planetes. August 9th, 2010 8:02 AM

TMs & HMs Discussion
 
This is basically to discuss the possible TMs and HMs in Isshu and the order

Knowledge so far: TMs are re-useable in Isshu, just like HMs


Personally I love this idea so I don't have to trade for Flamethrowers, and Earthquakes, I think that the move Sky Attack should get a TM tho

dragon0fangz August 9th, 2010 8:24 AM

FINALLY. its about time we had reusable TMs. I just hope you can still delete them. It would suck if you couldnt delete them like HMs.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire August 9th, 2010 8:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragon0fangz (Post 6052915)
FINALLY. its about time we had reusable TMs. I just hope you can still delete them. It would suck if you couldnt delete them like HMs.

That would be worse than HM's that aren't in a HM slave if you make a moveset up of TM's...

An Imperialist named Dak August 9th, 2010 8:36 AM

i have the biggest smile on right now, but i bet game freak is gonna put them in the oddest places or make you abuse the itemfinder to get them.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire August 9th, 2010 8:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Imperialist named Dak (Post 6052964)
i have the biggest smile on right now, but i bet game freak is gonna put them in the oddest places or make you abuse the itemfinder to get them.

I think so too, they will only put bullet seed,etc out though but keep the powerful ones hidden -_-...

Kirbychu August 9th, 2010 8:40 AM

This really doesn't affect me, since I've been using AR/the cloning glitch to get by this the last two generations. At least this will give people like me less incentive to hack for these things. I think they'll just add on TMs to the current 90(ish) we have.

I think Ice Shard and Superpower deserve TM slots.

Ho-Oh August 9th, 2010 8:40 AM

Just so you know, I'm only allowing this because we don't have a TM/HM discussion thread, so... yeah try to speculate on new TM/HM's rather than just the re-useable tm feature (which, by itself was merged with the CoroCoro scans thread). :x

Also. I actually hope they decrease the amount of TMs, low level ones as mentioned in MRAS' post (bullet seed) are... sort of not necessary.

Kirbychu August 9th, 2010 8:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever (Post 6052984)
Also. I actually hope they decrease the amount of TMs, low level ones as mentioned in MRAS' post (bullet seed) are... sort of not necessary.

They can still serve a purpose during the beginning of the game. However, Bullet Seed is one of the most awful moves in existence.

Ho-Oh August 9th, 2010 8:46 AM

Well yeah, but still, Bullet Seed...was completely pointless. It probably had something to do with the introduction of new berries, but yeah. XD;

I sense a TM overhaul, which is needed, anyway. HMs, however, eliminate everything except Surf, Fly, Strength (wishful thinking).

Ryu-kun August 9th, 2010 8:50 AM

^^ Or replace Strength with a bulldozer xD

Some TM's just make me go Lolwut for what they contain... Like, why do we need a Fling TM?

alisaie August 9th, 2010 8:51 AM

That would be nice if they can get rid of the other HMs other than those three. Those three and Waterfall, I guess, because that move is pretty powerful in itself. I've never really had any of the other ones on any of my team members.

gah, there was a move that I really wished was a TM, but I forgot it. I'll get back to you guys with that. I do agree in getting rid of some of the pointless ones/the ones that no one had probably ever used anyways.

Planetes. August 9th, 2010 8:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever (Post 6053001)
Well yeah, but still, Bullet Seed...was completely pointless. It probably had something to do with the introduction of new berries, but yeah. XD;

I sense a TM overhaul, which is needed, anyway. HMs, however, eliminate everything except Surf, Fly, Strength (wishful thinking).


every gen has a TM overhaul....


Anyway, I can sense them making us do a Wi-Fi mission for Eartquake or Giga Impact, I really hope they sell Giga Impact though

Kevin August 9th, 2010 8:59 AM

Orealy? That's nice. I remember there was a thread on this, but it's probably dead by now. xD;

Reusuable TM's are good...

Ho-Oh August 9th, 2010 8:59 AM

Oh, I mean complete overhaul.

Max 30 TMs. :) I wish

And if so, Flamethrower must be included.

Cobalt'Scizor August 9th, 2010 9:04 AM

The HMs I think are the better ones are Surf, Fly, Waterfall and Dive, but they'll keep Cut, Surf, Fly, Rock Smash, possibly Waterfall, and maybe Strength, very slight chance of Rock Climb. Inventing Defog as a HM was not right. I also don't get why Flash was demoted, although I never liked it. I think that they should get rid of all except the first 3 I mentioned, and invent 5 new HMs that are good.

Planetes. August 9th, 2010 9:08 AM

I love flash for the Nostalgia

And @ forever, while finding Tms may be annoying, they are useful because they let Pokemon learn moves they don't usually learn
(ex: I can absolutely destroy Lance with Dragon Pulse Rhyperior)

Air Pichu August 9th, 2010 9:42 AM

I think they should definitely keep Surf, Fly, and Waterfall pretty much because they're the best moves.

I don't really like the reusable TMs, it gives me a sign that this game is..... easy.

StratusJm August 9th, 2010 10:19 AM

i <3 reusable tm's! and i think agility and maybe nasty plot should be tm's i mean we have swords dance.

Porygon Z August 9th, 2010 10:24 AM

Personally, I hate this thing.
IMHO, it's too easy in this way.
If they used another way, like buying all TMs, it would be near the same thing, but you have to gain by yourself, to get your Pokèmon stronger (I hope you'll understand).

Anyway, I'd like to have Sky Attack, Lava Plume, and Volt Tackle as TMs.
And maybe they could use all the past HMs, and something new, to get like 15 HMs! :D

Kleinchen August 9th, 2010 11:03 AM

I wonder if the reusable TMs feature means that you won't be able to buy TMs in the department stores anymore? I mean, if you can use a TM over and over again limitlessly then it kind of defeats the purpose of having certain TMs for sale, because if you can find it in the wild then you'll never need to buy one. Hmm.

Not sure how I feel about this yet. But I do hope that they cut down on the number of HMs. Seriously, four or five is the absolute max there should be... Eight is kind of borderline ridiculous.

Xander Olivieri August 9th, 2010 11:15 AM

This is the first feature in Black and White that I don't like TBH.

Competitively, it ruins most of the set up. I mean I can now give my entire team Stealth Rock so no matter who comes out first I can set it up. Same with the Over Powered TMs. It also takes away from HM's unique points.

As for useless TMs, Multi attacking ones I don't see as useless. I mean If a Grass Pokemon had Technician, you'd love the hell out of Bullet Seed.

If they were to remove TMs, I want them to remove the ones that are always on the list and the Auto Hit moves like Aerial Ace. That way they can at least put SOME challenge into raising a Pokemon. Or make the TM unusable until you refresh it like in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, since the update on it that I saw only says that the TMs don't disappear after use and not, TMs can be used over and over without fail.

Planetes. August 9th, 2010 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porygon Z (Post 6053379)
Personally, I hate this thing.
IMHO, it's too easy in this way.
If they used another way, like buying all TMs, it would be near the same thing, but you have to gain by yourself, to get your Pokèmon stronger (I hope you'll understand).

Anyway, I'd like to have Sky Attack, Lava Plume, and Volt Tackle as TMs.
And maybe they could use all the past HMs, and something new, to get like 15 HMs! :D


Don't you ever....say 15 Hms again.

Anyway if TMs are still purchaseable, they will probably be more expensive.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire August 9th, 2010 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porygon Z (Post 6053379)
Personally, I hate this thing.
IMHO, it's too easy in this way.
If they used another way, like buying all TMs, it would be near the same thing, but you have to gain by yourself, to get your Pokèmon stronger (I hope you'll understand).

Anyway, I'd like to have Sky Attack, Lava Plume, and Volt Tackle as TMs.
And maybe they could use all the past HMs, and something new, to get like 15 HMs! :D

How would 15 Hm work we are allowed to use one per gym badge...so it wouldn't work :)

Sammuthegreat August 9th, 2010 12:09 PM

If there's one thing I just don't understand about Pokemon, it's why there are still HMs. I mean, Pokemon are living, breathing creatures, that can walk, run, fly, climb... you name it. They don't only exist in-battle like Digimon. So why aren't HM moves tied to Pokemon's stats? There's so many ways HMs could be handled without needing to hamstring our movesets and team setups. I mean, what's the point in having a 6 team spaces available if you can only realistically use 5 due to needing an HM slave to learn all the useless moves that are needed just to get to the end of the game?! And to top it all off, the moves can't even be deleted!!!

It would be so much simpler if a Pokemon's stats and natural assets decided whether or not they were able to use an out-of-battle move. For example:

Cut could be performed by all Pokemon that have claws or blades, or even teeth, and/or a high enough Attack stat.

Fly could be performed by all Pokemon that have wings or can otherwise fly.

Surf could be performed by all Pokemon that can swim, including small ones who could tow the player along behind them.

Strength could be performed by all Pokemon with a high enough Attack stat.

Flash could be performed by all Fire- and Electric-types, as well as a selection of other Pokemon with a high enough Special Attack stat.

Rock Smash could be performed by all Pokemon with a high enough Attack stat, and/or big enough fists/tails/claws to break rocks.

Rock Climb could be performed by all Pokemon with legs and claws that are big enough to carry a person.

Waterfall could be performed by all Pokemon that can swim and have a high enough Speed stat to swim against the flow of a river.

Whirlpool could act in the exact same way as Waterfall.

Defog could be performed by all Flying-type Pokemon, and all those that have wings.

Hell, the bicycle could be replaced by all land-based Pokemon with a high enough Speed stat that are big enough to ride. There could even be different grades of speed so that everyone can ride their favourite; a Rapidash would go at a faster pace than a Swampert, which would in turn go faster than a Snorlax. I mean, who wouldn't rather ride an Arcanine than a bicycle?!

This wouldn't even be difficult to design. As it stands all HMs are learnable by a specific list of Pokemon; this idea would just make that list make sense. And to stay in line with the current system whereby you can't use HMs outside of battle until you earn the relevant badge, the following could be implemented:

You can't perform Cut outside battle until you earn a licence showing that you are competent enough to perform the dangerous operation of cutting down trees - this licence is achieved by earning the first badge.

You can't perform Surf outside battle until you earn a licence showing that you are competent enough to perform the dangerous operation of traversing long stretches of water unaccompanied - this licence is achieved by earning a later badge, etc. etc.

In no way am I expecting that this will be implemented in Black and White, but it just makes so much more sense than the current system that I literally tear my hair out at having to keep a bloody Bibarel on every D/P team I have.

coolnick37 August 9th, 2010 12:17 PM

how can we even be sure that there are going to be HMs this time, maybe they gave up on them, and we havent seen any rocks to smash, or trees to cut in the previews :/
Sammuthegreat, well that idea sounds nice, but its of course impossible, beacause it would take too much to design.....buuut +.+ i would kill to see me riding my favorite pokemon


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