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Chad - August 22nd, 2010 1:13 PM

Vegetarianism
 
A vegetarian person is someone who practices a plant-based diet that includes fruits, vegetables, seeds, etc.. and stays away from meat products. People often follow this 'practice' for health, religious, environmental, or cultural reasons.

If you are not one, do you support it and do you sometimes consider being one yourself?

And if you are a vegetarian, how does it feel? And what reasons made you become one?

Discuss.

Aether★ August 22nd, 2010 1:22 PM

Negative. I enjoy eating vegetarian food, but not for all the time. Most of the vegetarian dishes are not sated and those dishes, which are sated, are quite expensive to make, though. I have to eat inexpensively, because I'm not rich.

Rich Boy Rob August 22nd, 2010 1:38 PM

No. Humans are Omnivores. We evolved to eat meat, vegetation and fungus which allowed us to reach where we are now. Our herbivorous ancestors are extinct for a reason: We are better.

I do not feel bad about eating animals in any way. If you are a vegetarian/vegan, I ask you; Do you have cat or dog? If so do you feed them dog/cat food? If yes, then how come you have no problem feeding them meat? We are supposed to eat meat just as much as they are.

Besides, if I was a vegetarian I wouldn't survive. Not without bacon.

Charizard★ August 22nd, 2010 1:41 PM

Hmm...interesting topic.


I used to be a vegetarian for 13 years, because of my family and religion. It felt kind of normal to me. I didn't feel any more special just because I was one, although other people used to ask me how could someone be a vegetarian.

Chad - August 22nd, 2010 1:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Boy Rob (Post 6095159)
No. Humans are Omnivores. We evolved to eat meat, vegetation and fungus which allowed us to reach where we are now. Our herbivorous ancestors are extinct for a reason: We are better.

I do not feel bad about eating animals in any way. If you are a vegetarian/vegan, I ask you; Do you have cat or dog? If so do you feed them dog/cat food? If yes, then how come you have no problem feeding them meat? We are supposed to eat meat just as much as they are.

Besides, if I was a vegetarian I wouldn't survive. Not without bacon.

True. And I'm not a vegetarian and I don't have a cat/dog, that is if you're addressing me. This is a random discussion about a certain 'practice', by the way, so feel free to post your opinions and views.

Timbjerr August 22nd, 2010 1:45 PM

Is it bad that I got a laugh out of the fact that I was eating some leftover chicken as I found this thread? XD

Obviously, I'm not a vegetarian, and I do tend to think negatively on people who try to 'convert' regular omnivorous people to vegetarianism. It's a noble effort to try and prevent animal suffering, but the majority of slaughterhouses nowadays do terminate my steaks humanely. :P

FreakyLocz14 August 22nd, 2010 1:57 PM

It is against human nature to be strictly vegetarian. It is also unhealthy. Vegetarians are commonly lacking in essential proteins and amino acids that come from meat.

poopnoodle August 22nd, 2010 2:25 PM

i was a vegan for four years then quit altogether somewhat recently because it's a failed statement and a pseudo-philosophy. the issue lies where animals are being treated on farms, and boycotting meat isn't addressing the cruelty these animals undergo, it's just wasting the meat that fuels our economy. there's nothing unethical, in my mind, about consuming meat (though i can see the discomfort), it's a part of nature "circle of life" etc, but to treat these animals like merely food instead of invaluable individuals, to imprison them in confined spaces in their own filth for their entire lives and separate them from their young, is wicked and inhumane. the morality of it all has a lot of grey areas and every once in awhile i'll argue with myself about it, but that's my general viewpoint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 (Post 6095231)
It is against human nature to be strictly vegetarian. It is also unhealthy. Vegetarians are commonly lacking in essential proteins and amino acids that come from meat.

there are plenty of alternatives

Charizard★ August 22nd, 2010 3:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 (Post 6095231)
It is against human nature to be strictly vegetarian. It is also unhealthy. Vegetarians are commonly lacking in essential proteins and amino acids that come from meat.

How is it against human nature? Humans evolved to eat both, whatever they found. They can also live off of meat or plants. Mainly plants since they evolved to eat them first. Vegetarians are not lacking in essential proteins and such, as far as I know I was the strongest and healthiest when then my whole boxing and wrestling team. There are many other alternatives.

FreakyLocz14 August 22nd, 2010 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charizard★ (Post 6095404)
How is it against human nature? Humans evolved to eat both, whatever they found. They can also live off of meat or plants. Mainly plants since they evolved to eat them first. Vegetarians are not lacking in essential proteins and such, as far as I know I was the strongest and healthiest when then my whole boxing and wrestling team. There are many other alternatives.

It is not human nature to be an herbivore, it is human nature to be an omnivore. An omnivore eats both meat and plants.

Zet August 22nd, 2010 3:20 PM

Vegetarians are horrible people, they're killing the planet faster than omnivores.

I don't care what a person is. If they choose to become a vegetarian, then that's fine by me seeing as how they have to eat more to get the proteins and crap that meat gives.

shot571 August 22nd, 2010 3:22 PM

Just to point out. I dont think they lack essential amino acids its just harder to get them. You need a bigger variety of food. As far as I can remember from my science lesson a few months back. And I dont mind eating meat....I just dont like killing the animals although I am mainly a meat eater so that may sound a bit strange.Obviously though since I'm muslim I get it halal so its done pretty humanely.

Zet August 22nd, 2010 4:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shot571 (Post 6095472)
Just to point out. I dont think they lack essential amino acids its just harder to get them. You need a bigger variety of food. As far as I can remember from my science lesson a few months back. And I dont mind eating meat....I just dont like killing the animals although I am mainly a meat eater so that may sound a bit strange.Obviously though since I'm muslim I get it halal so its done pretty humanely.

If it makes you feel better, their death is fast and painless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by overer (Post 6095551)
no just no, if you're a vegetablrian you could consider yourself dead to me. we are humans therefore i assume we are all supposed to be omnivores, we need essential proteins that come from meat. do you believe that you'll remembner to take your protien pills every day? or are youg oing to live off of peanuts maybe idk but im not interested, especially if they're unsalted. for a human to live, he needs meat AND lettuce, both of which omnivores not vegertarians eat. do you see my point? we eat meat and are not meant for just lettuce soley. sure who doesnt enjoy a good taco but guess what? on that taco is both lettuce and greasy fattening essential beef that is full of proein and tastes better than an unsalted nut or a horse pill that you may or may not forget to take one day. what of thaT? well you could die from malnutrition, that's what of that.

think twice before trying to save yur friendly neighborhood cow. you might just save your own life.

As mentioned before vegetarians have to eat a large amount of food to get the right amount of proteins and crap.

Charizard★ August 22nd, 2010 4:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 (Post 6095446)
It is not human nature to be an herbivore, it is human nature to be an omnivore. An omnivore eats both meat and plants.

Yes I know. But did you also know that they have the choice to eat meat or plants? Humans evolved in an environment where they were scavengers, therefore they ate meat whenever they came across it. But then they slowly became hunters, when that happened they ate meat. But some of the human species adapted by eating more plants then meat. My point is you can't say its human nature to eat meat. :/

revelp8 August 22nd, 2010 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overer (Post 6095581)
lol imagine if all of the vegatarians were fatter than the meat eaetrs and all they were eating is green garbage xD

LOLirony

I went vegan for a few months just to lose some weight. guess what, simply by not eating meat and doing my normal routine, i lost 5 lbs within a months time. I'd imagine i would have lost a bit more if i did exercises as well \lazy\

Im surprised at some of the opinions of the members on vegans though, its not a lifestyle to condemn/to look down upon. its a choice most of the time, and a damn good healthy choice at that.

Rich Boy Rob August 22nd, 2010 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad - (Post 6095179)
True. And I'm not a vegetarian and I don't have a cat/dog, that is if you're addressing me. This is a random discussion about a certain 'practice', by the way, so feel free to post your opinions and views.

I wasn't specifically addressing you, it was more a sort of... general accusation.

[EDIT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by revelp8 (Post 6095624)
LOLirony

I went vegan for a few months just to lose some weight. guess what, simply by not eating meat and doing my normal routine, i lost 5 lbs within a months time. I'd imagine i would have lost a bit more if i did exercises as well \lazy\

Im surprised at some of the opinions of the members on vegans though, its not a lifestyle to condemn/to look down upon. its a choice most of the time, and a damn good healthy choice at that.

Uh... hate to break it to you, but veganism is not really a "damn good healthy choice". Assuming you hadn't changed your dietary habits other than cutting out meat/dairy/eggs/anything else that comes from animals, then you were probably not getting enough Calcium, due to you not consuming any dairy (especially if you are still growing), Protein from not eating any meat (unless you ate a Lo-HOT of nuts) and probably some other things that my brain can't think of at 1:30 in the morning.

tl;dr

You need to eat quite a lot more to have a healthy diet if you are a vegan.
It'd be easier just to cut out fatty foods. Not that you don't need to eat fat anyway.
And if you don't mind possibly gaining weight, but getting fitter and healthier then just more/better exercise.

FreakyLocz14 August 22nd, 2010 7:08 PM

Rapid weight loss =/= Healthy

Anorexics, bulimics, and people who are infected with parasites also lose weight rather quickly. Would anyone say that they are healthy?

Livewire August 22nd, 2010 7:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shot571 (Post 6095472)
Just to point out. I dont think they lack essential amino acids its just harder to get them. You need a bigger variety of food. As far as I can remember from my science lesson a few months back. And I dont mind eating meat....I just dont like killing the animals although I am mainly a meat eater so that may sound a bit strange.Obviously though since I'm muslim I get it halal so its done pretty humanely.

You can get protein and the amino acids present in meat from other places, but, not in sufficient levels to meet the bodies demand. you can get protein from nuts, eggs, etc, but no where near the levels from beef, Pork, fish or poultry

Humans evolved as omnivores, eating meat and plants. Always have always will. If you want to go ahead and become vegetarian/Vegan go right ahead. ^_^ i will continue to enjoy steak and cheeseburgers.

revelp8 August 22nd, 2010 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Boy Rob (Post 6095634)
Uh... hate to break it to you, but veganism is not really a "damn good healthy choice". Assuming you hadn't changed your dietary habits other than cutting out meat/dairy/eggs/anything else that comes from animals, then you were probably not getting enough Calcium, due to you not consuming any dairy (especially if you are still growing), Protein from not eating any meat (unless you ate a Lo-HOT of nuts) and probably some other things that my brain can't think of at 1:30 in the morning.

tl;dr

You need to eat quite a lot more to have a healthy diet if you are a vegan.
It'd be easier just to cut out fatty foods. Not that you don't need to eat fat anyway.
And if you don't mind possibly gaining weight, but getting fitter and healthier then just more/better exercise.

see, that's the thing, there are plenty of subsitutes that provide the same coverage of nutrients. Soy beans...and well beans in general provide more than enough proteins and amino acids...without the fat involved like in all meats. calcium is available through cereals and soy milk.

And eating more? not really. you eat just enough to stay satisfied. that's what most people don't even understand yet, proportions of food meals. have you heard your parents tell you to eat everything on your plate? did you know that one plateful, given the size of the plate is like 9in or whichever the general standard is, filled with food can actually feed two people.

the whole reason why most americans are fat isn't wholly because of the diets they eat, it is because they are ignorant of proportions on their plates. People eat to get stuffed and bloated, but don't realize that people need to eat just enough to stay alive and energetic after a meal. but that's beside the point \rant\

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 (Post 6096047)
Rapid weight loss =/= Healthy

Anorexics, bulimics, and people who are infected with parasites also lose weight rather quickly. Would anyone say that they are healthy?

[out of context]fyi; those are eating disorders and usually tied in with today's culture, but i really don't know why your bringing that up in the first place. rapid weight loss usually means that something is WRONG within a person's body, and parasites aren't usually a good sign altogether

Quote:

Originally Posted by Live_Wire466 (Post 6096053)
You can get protein and the amino acids present in meat from other places, but, not in sufficient levels to meet the bodies demand. you can get protein from nuts, eggs, etc, but no where near the levels from beef, Pork, fish or poultry

Humans evolved as omnivores, eating meat and plants. Always have always will. If you want to go ahead and become vegetarian/Vegan go right ahead. ^_^ i will continue to enjoy steak and cheeseburgers.

Yes, you do get more proteins and such from meats but you also get the lovely bonus of fat as well, i do know that fat is beneficial towards a human body, but not in ridiculous amounts. and some meats, like sausages and [vomits] hot dogs are actually higher in fat than they are in proteins. *shudders*

you wouldn't enjoy a cheeseburger anymore if you actually knew what it was made of. then again, I live in california, and thereby, we have the best burgers in the west made at In n Out, so i can't complain XD

MushroomZOMBIE August 22nd, 2010 9:15 PM

I personally find the whole ethical argument for vegetarianism hypocritical. So it's ethical to consume non-animal products and nothing from animals? Just because non-animals don't have a face, that means that you can consume them without feeling guilty? Because they are ALSO living things, after all.

And it's not exactly healthy as many vegetarians say. You get a higher chance of lacking certain vitamins and minerals that the body needs. As some people above said, we're naturally omnivores. It's much too restrictive to a human to forgo meat.

Katie_Q August 22nd, 2010 9:22 PM

I went vegetarian for a while, but since at the moment I live with both my parents and grandparents who make seperate dishes, it was hard making a 3rd dish and I could see it was bothering everyone. plus i love chicken. I will go vegetarian again, but I'll probably cut chicken out slowly (it's really basically the only meat I like the taste off, besides bacon and ham). I'll maybe occasionally get meat from our local butcher, who thinks it's disgusting some ways animals are killed, but the truth it i really don't like meat, never have. Sure I said I liked bacon and ham, but even then half the time I don't even want it if offered. I don't find it that great. But some nice seasoned or crumbed chicken...mmmm... I won't go vegan though. I just don't think I'd be good at that. Plus I won't touch soy. Don't ask. And I love my eggs and dairy.

When i was a vegetarian, i did just fine. Well ok, I did faint one. the docter said it would have just been my body adjusting most likely. But still I had iron tablets a few times a week just incase that was the problem and amultivitimens (I'm a bad speller! xD ) everyday. well thats a lie, I used to forget to take them for days some times weeks at a time. But I was fine, other then the first week. I think you can be healthy as a vegetarian providing you research what type of foods can replace what meat gives you. I never really ate anymore then I used to. In fact my diet barely changed aside from dinner, and sometimes my family would have meat for lunch and I'd just have vegemite and lettuce sandwiches. It actually tasted good to me. And I enjoyed my vegetarian dishes a lot more. Oh sweet, sweet vegetarian lasagne.

But anyway, the main thing I think, is that no one should be discriminated over what they eat. And if some people don't think I'm a human for wanting to go vegetarian, well that's not my problem. Why do so many humans have to discriminate against each other over the stupidest things anyway? (diet, race, clothing, gender, whether somebody's going to college/uni or not) But whatever, we all live our lives differently and thats our choice right?

EDIT: sorry for my little rant

nSpire August 23rd, 2010 12:30 AM

Tofu is absolutely disgusting if you ask me, and I simply couldn't live without meat.

Kirozane August 23rd, 2010 12:55 AM

I agree with a lot of this, but at the same time I can't help but nitpick a lot of it too...

For instance, as true as it may be that vegetarianism is a "good choice" and MAYBE more people should turn to it, there are multiple reasons why a lot of people can't, maybe shouldn't, and probably won't. I know quite a few I am about to mention are true because they are reasons hindering myself and my family, especially.

The iron consumption issue. I know, there are supplements to fix it, but I doubt many people realize how important it is to keep an eye on what you consume along with those supplements as well. Iron in plants is not as readily absorbent as iron in meat. This is mostly because of all of the inhibitors that plants have on iron absorption. Fiber, for instance is an Iron inhibitor found more often in plants. And the oxalates in leafy greens also inhibits the process. And then there are the meat-free, more artificial products that bring up the same problem. Tea, coffee, chocolate... Basically anything with caffeine or iron inhibiting phosphates. I had to do extensive research on this due ot not only my anatomy class, but the fact that my mom, who was vegetarian at the time, had a hysterectomy and was diagnosed with iron-based anemia shortly thereafter. She then had to (and still has to) eat foods that are rich in Iron, but not iron inhibitors.... Which are, you guessed it, MEATS. Perhaps the fact that she did not consume enough vitamin C in accordance, which actually cancels out the inhibitors to an extent, may have had something to do with it. But a lot of people make the decision without enough research to keep them adequately nourished in the terms of essential vitamins and minerals. They are essentially blinded by the "Do it because its better for you" argument and don't really tend to research it until it is too late.... Until something goes wrong. But then, that's how a lot of people tend to be... especially Americans. (I can easily say this, for I am one.)

Which brings me to my next reason. Procrastination/laziness. A lot of people will look at labels extensively, combing them inside and out for any meats/animal products or nuances to such or calorie intake, but that tends to be as far as they go. As true as it is that Carbs, nucleic acids and proteins have less calories than lipids (the first three convert to 4 calories per gram I believe, while lipids convert into nine) It's really a win/lose. Though many people don't realize it and thus the recommended caloric intake is greatly exceeded by non-vegetarians, vegetarians sometimes don't meet the recommendation. It's usually too much, or not enough... From what I've seen, there aren't many people who can hit and stick to the healthy median without the research that those who don't meet it tend to forgo. Again, blinded by the fact that it is "better for you."

And also, omitting one of the four organic molecules is a BAD IDEA. They're all necessary to life for a reason... and really there is no way to fully omit them luckily. Each one serves at least one function that is vital to survival, and thus cannot be carried out as well when replaced by another. For instance. Those who consume more carbs than lipids tend to be more or less sprinters. Due to fewer calories from their intake, they don't have enough caloric energy to burn to really have exceptional endurance. Thus they are USUALLY more suited for sports that require bursts of energy, rather than a long extensive store. However, if those who consume enough lipids do not train their bodies to use as much of the store as possible at a time (AKA exercise) the body will store it for emergency needs... Thus weight gain. To have a PROPER energy store, there needs to be a balanced consumption of all stores, though in the end, lipids will make up most of your energy capacity, as they have a little over double the calories. After all, your body burns fat as a priority over everything else.

The last point I will bring up is more a personal preference than anything, but I've heard enough complaints about it to make it countable. FLAVOR. I understand some things have to be sacrificed, as most of the time, flavor comes from fats. Which is why meats tend to be naturally more flavorful than vegetables and such. I can't even begin to fathom how rich I'd be if I had a nickel for every time I heard that someone would go vegan if it didn't cost so much to make it taste better.

I guess the point of this incessantly long rant is that not enough people have extensively pointed out a few of the problems with it as I have tried to do... (I may have failed since it is 3 AM here.) They tend to stick to more of the positives and try to defend themselves when negatives are thrown out. But really, believe it or not, I DO believe that the decision is solely up to the person in question. I choose not to, due to all of the negatives I have seen... but I actually will not condemn someone for choosing that particular path. It's all a game of tolerance, which a lot of people tend to not know how to play due to exposure to opinions when younger.

Okay I think I'm done now.

インフェルノの津波 August 23rd, 2010 1:12 AM

I became a vegetarian because I don't like the taste of meat. And I hate the fact of where it comes from, especially eggs (UNBORN CHICKENS! YOU MONSTERS!)

That's pretty much it, I eat organic cause of pesticides. I needs meh brains.

As for how I get my vitamins, MorningStar and other companies contribute in that. I'm also a gluten-free person, just so you know.

Katie_Q August 23rd, 2010 1:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nSpire (Post 6096477)
Tofu is absolutely disgusting if you ask me, and I simply couldn't live without meat.

What is tofu exactly? despite once being a vegetarian I never tasted it. I had a packet of it but never actually tasted it.

Sewzie August 23rd, 2010 4:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 (Post 6095231)
It is against human nature to be strictly vegetarian. It is also unhealthy. Vegetarians are commonly lacking in essential proteins and amino acids that come from meat.

This basically.
Although there are multi-vitamin capsules that vegetarians can take in order to receive the same amount of nutrients non-vegetarians receive with eating meat.
Still, omnivore all the way. :)

NarutoActor August 23rd, 2010 4:53 AM

I was raised spanish, where a lot of the meals involved meat. So I don't think I would ever become a vegetarian. Plus meat is sooo yummy!

Elite Overlord LeSabre™ August 23rd, 2010 9:34 AM

I need my daily source of meat. I could never be a vegetarian. With that aid, I do accept their dietary choice, as long as they don't force it on others. I don't need people telling me I'm cruel just because I eat what used to be animals. Guess what? I'll counter with the argument that plants are living beings too. (Obviously I wouldn't be able to use that argument with the person who solely eats nails, lumber, VCR's, and car windshields, but I have yet to meet such a person).

Long story short, I eat meat, I'll accept your dietary choices as long as you accept mine.

poopnoodle August 23rd, 2010 10:36 AM

@ the argument "we evolved to be carnivores":

yes we did, because meat was available. if only vegetables were available, we would have evolved to be herbivores (though i think meat had the necessary nutrients that boosted our evolution rate, correct me if im wrong).we weren't "meant to eat meat," it's not "anti-human" to object eating meat, it's a personal decision and stop being so intolerant. now that we have the resources people can choose to be herbivores and stay healthy.

@ plants are also living creatures:

sure, but we can reasonably argue that they don't have the ability to feel pain unlike the animals we eat. and that's where the problem lies, treating animals cruelly, and while i see the discomfort in "consuming cruelty" as PETA would put it, i don't think boycotting meat for that reason solves anything. buT tHaTs jUST mE

FreakyLocz14 August 23rd, 2010 11:06 AM

Those who choose to be vegetarian have the right to make that choce, still they should work with a doctor or a dietician to be sure that they are getting the levels of vitamins needed to remain healthy.

And no, the human digestive tract is designed to be strictly herbivore. Strict herbivores have special bacterias in their digestive tract that break down they vegetation they consume. Humans do not have such bacterias.

Rich Boy Rob August 23rd, 2010 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revelp8 (Post 6096117)
you wouldn't enjoy a cheeseburger anymore if you actually knew what it was made of. then again, I live in california, and thereby, we have the best burgers in the west made at In n Out, so i can't complain XD

I know pretty much what goes into fast-food burgers and it does not bother me. They taste nice and as long as you eat them realistically (as in not eating fast food exclusively) they do no harm.
Besides 9 times out of ten we make our own burgers anyway so I know exactly what goes into them: Mince, ketchup and possible extras such as apple and/or onion, I think there may be another bonding agent aswell, but don't quote me on that. Other than that, we have shop bought burgers and most supermarket burgers aren't too bad for ingredients. Depends on the source.

ThatKidMike August 23rd, 2010 11:50 AM

Being a vegetarian is something I wouldn't ever do, simply because I don't hold the same set of beliefs that many vegetarians do. That being said, respect to those that do something like that and stand up for what they believe in.

At the same time, a lot of vegetarians are some of the most pretentious people you'll ever meat (haha, I'm so lame) I've met some that'll go to some wild extents to shove their beliefs down your throat, and I can't stand that.

Also, Tofu is delicious.

Bloo August 23rd, 2010 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbjerr (Post 6095188)
Is it bad that I got a laugh out of the fact that I was eating some leftover chicken as I found this thread? XD

Obviously, I'm not a vegetarian, and I do tend to think negatively on people who try to 'convert' regular omnivorous people to vegetarianism. It's a noble effort to try and prevent animal suffering, but the majority of slaughterhouses nowadays do terminate my steaks humanely. :P

Not to be off topic, but Kosher foods trweat the animal well if that's what you are worried about. What if we ate food from animal how died of natureal causes? Would that be bad?

Rich Boy Rob August 23rd, 2010 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by インフェルノの津波 (Post 6096530)
I became a vegetarian because I don't like the taste of meat. And I hate the fact of where it comes from, especially eggs (UNBORN CHICKENS! YOU MONSTERS!)

Well... not really. They'd only be unborn chickens if fertilised, which they aren't. It's as much eating unborn chickens as ingesting sperm is eating unborn children and people do that all the time. Swallow sperm that is, not eat children.

Quote:

Originally Posted by インフェルノの津波 (Post 6096530)

That's pretty much it, I eat organic cause of pesticides. I needs meh brains.

I always considered organic food to be one of the biggest, most successful scams in history. I mean, why pay more for food that hasn't been treated to deter insects, bacteria and the like from munching on it?

Esper August 23rd, 2010 6:41 PM

I feel compelled to post every time a vegetarian thread pops up.

I became a vegetarian when I realized that you could feed more people on the plants grown in any given field than by using a field of the same size to grow food for animals and then feeding those animals to people.

Warning: Science content!


It's a simplified example, but the principle is there. There's simply more food. What that means is more food to go around, more that counties like mine (the US) can export for profit or give to people in need (like the flood victims in Pakistan).

I know that a single person not eating meat doesn't really do anything to the big picture, but if enough people cut out or cut back on the meat they eat it could change things. In my experience people eat more meat than they really need anyway. You can get all your body needs by eating meat around 3 times a week (assuming you have a healthy diet already - for instance, if you include beans, rice, squash, and nuts in your diet you'll have all the protein you need). If people just cut back on how much meat they ate I'd be pretty pleased even if they still ate a couple of poor wittle cowses. I'm a practical vegetarian. And a healthy one.

Gyarados Girl August 23rd, 2010 7:23 PM

I've been vegan for years now and think vegetarianism / veganism rates are going to grow quicker as the population raises mainly due to the argument Scarf posted above.

Although it requires you pay attention and would not have been practical for people in the distant past, there's really no effective arguments for meat eating today in my opinion; especially when one considers the food shortage worldwide.

Livewire August 23rd, 2010 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revelp8 (Post 6096117)
see, that's the thing, there are plenty of subsitutes that provide the same coverage of nutrients. Soy beans...and well beans in general provide more than enough proteins and amino acids...without the fat involved like in all meats. calcium is available through cereals and soy milk.

And eating more? not really. you eat just enough to stay satisfied. that's what most people don't even understand yet, proportions of food meals. have you heard your parents tell you to eat everything on your plate? did you know that one plateful, given the size of the plate is like 9in or whichever the general standard is, filled with food can actually feed two people.

the whole reason why most americans are fat isn't wholly because of the diets they eat, it is because they are ignorant of proportions on their plates. People eat to get stuffed and bloated, but don't realize that people need to eat just enough to stay alive and energetic after a meal. but that's beside the point \rant\



[out of context]fyi; those are eating disorders and usually tied in with today's culture, but i really don't know why your bringing that up in the first place. rapid weight loss usually means that something is WRONG within a person's body, and parasites aren't usually a good sign altogether



Yes, you do get more proteins and such from meats but you also get the lovely bonus of fat as well, i do know that fat is beneficial towards a human body, but not in ridiculous amounts. and some meats, like sausages and [vomits] hot dogs are actually higher in fat than they are in proteins. *shudders*

you wouldn't enjoy a cheeseburger anymore if you actually knew what it was made of. then again, I live in california, and thereby, we have the best burgers in the west made at In n Out, so i can't complain XD

Trust me i know what goes into making a cheeseburger. Yummy Grease, cholesterol, fat, etc. mystery meat, etc

...and Hotdogs. its pretty much common knowledge that Hotdogs/Sausage are bits and pieces of leftover meat-stuff, organs, etc, from a variety of animal sources, stuffed inside the intestinal membrane of a pig usually. And they are oh so wonderful after a few minutes on the grill. xD

Back to the vegetarian argument, i like the idea of conserving resources/being Eco friendly, it is easier on the ecosystem to be Vegan/Vegetarian, but i start to get turned off when it gets to PETA levels though. :/ but in the long run i think the argument for it runs out of steam. you cant ignore mother nature forever.

Spinor August 23rd, 2010 8:28 PM

Vegetarianism? What the hell is that!? Is this another religion thread?

Now where the hell is my raw meat?

Kirozane August 23rd, 2010 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Live_Wire466 (Post 6098875)
Back to the vegetarian argument, i like the idea of conserving resources/being Eco friendly, it is easier on the ecosystem to be Vegan/Vegetarian, but i start to get turned off when it gets to PETA levels though. :/ but in the long run i think the argument for it runs out of steam. you cant ignore mother nature forever.

Not quite, actually... In terms of production methods, yes, being vegetarian IS indeed more Eco friendly... but at the same time it is not. And there is also a reason why the meat "normal omnivorous humans" DO consume largely is from herbivorous/omnivorous animals, and it's not just because of the extra nutrients obtained through it. (even if we only receive 10% of what they received, thus only 1% of the photosynthetic energy the plants received from the sun.)

It's, ulteriorly, a way to keep a type of check/balance. If we suddenly stopped consuming meat, even if we could still obtain a healthy amount of nutrients from such a lifestyle, it would be a terrible decision when you look at the ecosystem developmentally. We are now what keeps a lot of herbivorous species in check... Livestock more specifically. (even if we are also the reason they're on the verge of ballooning out of control in the first place...) If we suddenly stopped killing them for food, and let them produce at will, even if another animal started to pick them off, it wouldn't be at as rapid a pace, thus the population of these creatures would swell out of control... and thus an overconsumption of plants would occur, causing their lifespans and growth patterns to shift dramatically.

If I need to back up this argument, allow me to go off topic with my basis. Wolves. In Yellowstone more specifically.

Spoiler:
Humans feared the wolves, and thus ran them to the point of extinction, completely running them out of the area. They were the main predator keeping the deer population in check. Without the wolves keeping their numbers to a reasonable level, the population swelled beyond the area's carrying capacity. This caused the deer to eat what they could find, including stripping saplings and other trees of their bark, which caused the trees to reach maturity faster, and shrinking the area's average size compared to those that had been around before the wolves' "expulsion". Essentially, the overcrowding of herbivores was killing the area. Finally when the wolf was reintroduced, the deer population started to slowly dwindle back to optimum levels, and the area has since begun to recover considerably.


Basically, If humanity all decided to go vegetarian due to just being more Eco friendly with production methods, we would be essentially exhausting the world's resources faster than nature could recover from. It would bring about mass conflict over who controls the more rapidly dwindling resources and how to portion it "fairly" (though the past has shown that is never the case...) which would, of course, spiral further out of control.

So, I think what I'm trying to say here is, as good of an idea as it is, we are currently in a spot where the omnivore population has to considerably outnumber the herbivore/vegetarian population of humanity to keep a type of check or balance in order.

Believe it or not, I actually agree to an extent, Live. It's just AP Bio has taught me to really nitpick these types of things. I just couldn't keep the "flaws"/missed details I spotted to myself.

Though I may just be looking too far into it again... I always find an argument at 1 AM.

Kynareth August 24th, 2010 12:16 AM

1. I'm a Vegetarian.
2. It's by choice, and no it's not OMG THEYZ KILLIN TEH ANIMULZ AND HARMIN TEH WORLD. That really doesn't bother me, too many animals are killed en-mass nowadays for food anyways.
3. It's not to be healthy or any of that crap, I probably consume more chocolate than I do other foods.

I was raised a vegetarian but with the option of meat because of my mother, who is a Vegetarian, however, I live in a house with my grandmother and father who are both meat-eaters. So I do have the option to have meat if I so wish, it was never forced on me.
I'm not a fully fledged Vegetarian in a way, because I've had plenty of sausages in my lifespan, but not enough that I'd consume them even on a monthly basis, I'd have them maybe once every 9 months or so and that's not planned or anything it's kinda just if I'm offered them by friends or at gatherings I'll take some to be polite. So I actually don't stand for people shoving Vegetarianism down peoples throats, and personally I think going Vegan is a bit too much.

My diet consists of:
Potato's, Beans, Rice, Pizza, Pasta, Noodles, Soup, Bread/Bread Rolls, Milk, Cheese and then some forms of vegetables mixed in with my potato. (For the record I'm Irish :P )
I absolutely love Italian food and will try anything vegetarian that comes out of that country.

That literally is more or less my diet, I've maybe forgotten a few things but not much I'd bet.

By habit actually rather than OMG I NEED TO GET LEVELS OF THIS AND THAT, I end up drinking at least 2 litres of water in a day, usually I'll end up drinking around 4-6. Which I've been told time and again is very healthy. Which I've told is quite a helpful hand see'ing as I'm vegetarian.

I've never had problems with Iron Tablets, Vitamin Supplements I tend to only take if I'm under the weather for an extra boost, I DO NOT TAKE THEM REGULARLY.

I had stress related heart problems 3 years ago, and because of this I took all kinds of dietery tests performed to see that it wasn't related to foods I was eating or anything like that. It was quickly confirmed that it was stress of school and I was told to tone it down a little. But that my diet consumption was fine and there was nothing wrong with it and nothing that needed to be improved on, even from a full medical standpoint, I'm a healthy human being and my diet doesn't consist of meat or any artificial supplements.

So for all you ignorant people saying that we evolved this way or that we need meat, you don't as long as you take care of yourself you're just as bad as the people that try and force Vegetarianism down your throat, because you're doing exactly the same. You need to be open to the idea before you become biased like that and your argument starts to fail.

I eat what I please and I've been suriving all my life pretty fine. /rant

Mind you though if anyone has any questions relating to me directly feel free to ask, I'll have no problem whatsoever answering.

o0PinkSquid0o August 24th, 2010 12:53 AM

I HATE vegetarians and vegans for one reason... that reason is:

What the hell is the point in you rambling about how vegetarian you are and how awesome you are because of it.. then you go sit on your leather couch, put on your leather shoes and use whatever other animal product stuff you have!!

Just shut up and eat the damn meat, you not eating meat isn't going to stop the animals from being slaughtered to make meat AND clothes AND Furniture etc.

anyway, thats my rant ;)


I<3U meat

Dawn August 24th, 2010 12:53 AM

I eat meat, but only because it's there whether I eat it or not. Thrown into the wild, I would never be able to kill and eat an animal. Come to think of it, my stomach would probably not take kindly to that. I believe I read somewhere that our bodies unfortunately don't handle raw meat very well anymore.

If I were in the wild, not being handed meat ready to eat, I would definitely be a vegetarian. That's completely ignoring the fact I might very well die. Never claimed I was ready for the wild now did I >.>

Kaylenn August 24th, 2010 1:46 AM

oh my!
 
i love being a vegitarian....
i had to give up on meat because it made me sick.
and when my family eats it i can't be near them..
like you can eat poultry and drink milk...
but thats kind of the bare minimum of being one.. do you ever run into sterio type people who say your not when they see you eatting something thats not exactly meat or what ever?

Katie_Q August 24th, 2010 2:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Boy Rob (Post 6098118)


I always considered organic food to be one of the biggest, most successful scams in history. I mean, why pay more for food that hasn't been treated to deter insects, bacteria and the like from munching on it?

Because some people don't want to eat chemicals and prefer the natural way. Pretty obvious.

Kynareth August 24th, 2010 2:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylenn (Post 6099194)

like you can eat poultry and drink milk...
but thats kind of the bare minimum of being one..

I wouldn't exactly consider Poultry being vegetarian, but excluding Dairy is generally Vegan rather than Vegetarian in my opinion.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylenn (Post 6099194)
do you ever run into sterio type people who say your not when they see you eatting something thats not exactly meat or what ever?

I have plenty of times come across people like that, it's just silly sometimes.

Katie_Q August 24th, 2010 2:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by o0PinkSquid0o (Post 6099119)
I HATE vegetarians and vegans for one reason... that reason is:

What the hell is the point in you rambling about how vegetarian you are and how awesome you are because of it.. then you go sit on your leather couch, put on your leather shoes and use whatever other animal product stuff you have!!

Just shut up and eat the damn meat, you not eating meat isn't going to stop the animals from being slaughtered to make meat AND clothes AND Furniture etc.

anyway, thats my rant ;)


I<3U meat

I don't think you should put ALL vegs. in that steriotype. i agree a lot are like that, but plenty of them won't use anything from and animal, including leather. Also they don't all shove their beleifs down your throats. But I see how you could come to that conclusion, so many of them are like this

インフェルノの津波 August 24th, 2010 2:55 AM

Organic is not a scam. In fact, I'd rather a a grasshopper that ingest pesticides.

I think pesticides are scams. Sure I understand locust, but seriously how come in other countries they use no pesticides and are still living, breathing and possibly better than us?

Besides, even if they used pesticides that had no side effects, I'd trust nature, because it's helped me a lot. And it came before us.

Peach Fresca August 24th, 2010 8:54 AM

I've only recently become a vegetarian. When I was little, I had to eat chicken and turkey because everyone else did. We never ate mammals.

Personally, I just get sick at the thought of eating something that once had a face. :| Although I don't care if someone else eats meat. Just don't talk about how delicious it is and I'm fine with it.

Dawn August 24th, 2010 9:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by インフェルノの津波 (Post 6096530)
especially eggs (UNBORN CHICKENS! YOU MONSTERS!)

You're aware that farmers specifically sell eggs that are unfertilized, as in, there's no baby chickens in them, right? ._.

Also. I'm just going to throw the definition for Vegan out there. Seems like there may be a bit of confusion as to what one is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Google
Vegan: a strict vegetarian; someone who eats no animal or dairy products at all


Rich Boy Rob August 24th, 2010 9:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katie_Q (Post 6099227)
Because some people don't want to eat chemicals and prefer the natural way. Pretty obvious.

But why pay more, more for food that has not been treated with chemicals that the farmers pay for in the first place. The chemicals don't hurt you any way and bioaccumilation can be averted, so I see no reason to pay more for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylenn (Post 6099194)
i love being a vegitarian....
like you can eat poultry and drink milk...

But... that isn't vegetarianism. Poultry is meat. Vegetarians are people who don't eat meat. It's just like people who claim to be vegetarians but eat fish. Fish is a meat. It is the flesh of an animal, therefore it is meat.

revelp8 August 24th, 2010 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Boy Rob (Post 6099944)
But why pay more, more for food that has not been treated with chemicals that the farmers pay for in the first place. The chemicals don't hurt you any way and bioaccumilation can be averted, so I see no reason to pay more for it.


But... that isn't vegetarianism. Poultry is meat. Vegetarians are people who don't eat meat. It's just like people who claim to be vegetarians but eat fish. Fish is a meat. It is the flesh of an animal, therefore it is meat.

Organic food is a limited supply, that is why its more expensive than conventional food, not to mention loads of variables that need to be taken into consideration about growing organic food, which inevitably means its going to be expensive. And yes, pesticides do actually cause harm. pesticide poisoning, not only to us the consumers, but to the actual farmers harvesting your food. But to tie this back in to the topic...errr nevermind.

There are many different kinds of vegetarianism as well. Yes, chicken is a meat, but its a WHITE meat. therefore, it would be called semi-vegetarian and so forth. And that's acceptable too as well, its a person's choice.

Livewire August 24th, 2010 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirozane (Post 6099046)
Not quite, actually... In terms of production methods, yes, being vegetarian IS indeed more Eco friendly... but at the same time it is not. And there is also a reason why the meat "normal omnivorous humans" DO consume largely is from herbivorous/omnivorous animals, and it's not just because of the extra nutrients obtained through it. (even if we only receive 10% of what they received, thus only 1% of the photosynthetic energy the plants received from the sun.)

It's, ulteriorly, a way to keep a type of check/balance. If we suddenly stopped consuming meat, even if we could still obtain a healthy amount of nutrients from such a lifestyle, it would be a terrible decision when you look at the ecosystem developmentally. We are now what keeps a lot of herbivorous species in check... Livestock more specifically. (even if we are also the reason they're on the verge of ballooning out of control in the first place...) If we suddenly stopped killing them for food, and let them produce at will, even if another animal started to pick them off, it wouldn't be at as rapid a pace, thus the population of these creatures would swell out of control... and thus an overconsumption of plants would occur, causing their lifespans and growth patterns to shift dramatically.

If I need to back up this argument, allow me to go off topic with my basis. Wolves. In Yellowstone more specifically.

Spoiler:
Humans feared the wolves, and thus ran them to the point of extinction, completely running them out of the area. They were the main predator keeping the deer population in check. Without the wolves keeping their numbers to a reasonable level, the population swelled beyond the area's carrying capacity. This caused the deer to eat what they could find, including stripping saplings and other trees of their bark, which caused the trees to reach maturity faster, and shrinking the area's average size compared to those that had been around before the wolves' "expulsion". Essentially, the overcrowding of herbivores was killing the area. Finally when the wolf was reintroduced, the deer population started to slowly dwindle back to optimum levels, and the area has since begun to recover considerably.


Basically, If humanity all decided to go vegetarian due to just being more Eco friendly with production methods, we would be essentially exhausting the world's resources faster than nature could recover from. It would bring about mass conflict over who controls the more rapidly dwindling resources and how to portion it "fairly" (though the past has shown that is never the case...) which would, of course, spiral further out of control.

So, I think what I'm trying to say here is, as good of an idea as it is, we are currently in a spot where the omnivore population has to considerably outnumber the herbivore/vegetarian population of humanity to keep a type of check or balance in order.

Believe it or not, I actually agree to an extent, Live. It's just AP Bio has taught me to really nitpick these types of things. I just couldn't keep the "flaws"/missed details I spotted to myself.

Though I may just be looking too far into it again... I always find an argument at 1 AM.

No no im not saying everybody should go vegetarian, or vice-versa because its easier on the environment. Production wise, its less costly, that what i was getting at. Its hard on the environment to support either of them really. like you said, that balance is so thin any change can have disastrous consequences. Not many people realize how much money it takes to produce the meat we buy from the grocery store, or the fruits and vegetables we buy.

Interesting tidbit:

it takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of processed beef, from birth to slaughterhouse.

Organic foods can cost 50-100% more than their counterparts at the store

Zeph. August 24th, 2010 12:12 PM

Each to their own I suppose. If you're a vegetarian, then be one - just don't get your hopes up that it'll stop animals being slaughtered.

I myself am not a vegetarian. I think it's perfectly natural and harmless to eat other animals. And, let's face it, meat is gooood... o_o

Rich Boy Rob August 24th, 2010 3:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revelp8 (Post 6099991)
There are many different kinds of vegetarianism as well. Yes, chicken is a meat, but its a WHITE meat. therefore, it would be called semi-vegetarian and so forth. And that's acceptable too as well, its a person's choice.


veg·e·tar·i·an (vj-târ-n)
n.
1. One who practices vegetarianism.
2. A herbivore.
adj.
1. Of or relating to vegetarianism or vegetarians.
2. Consisting wholly of vegetables and vegetable products: a vegetarian diet.


Noun: pescatarian ,pes-ku'teh-ree-un
A person who eats fish and shellfish but not meat
- pescetarian

Pollotarianism (also called pollo-vegetarianism) is a neologism to denote a dietary choice, in which a person does not consume mammalian meat such as beef, pork, and lamb, but does consume chicken. As with lacto-ovo vegetarianism, there are usually no restrictions on non-flesh animal products such as dairy and eggs.

Annoyingly I couldn't find a site with all 3 definitions, so enjoy the mish-mash.

BareBones August 24th, 2010 5:53 PM

I'm not a Vegetarian. I do, however, support Vegetarians fully. I just couldn't live without chicken. But if I go to my Vegetarian friends house I'll eat whatever she cooks me, I don't expect her to cook any meat for me.

Livewire August 24th, 2010 7:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BareBones (Post 6100950)
I'm not a Vegetarian. I do, however, support Vegetarians fully. I just couldn't live without chicken. But if I go to my Vegetarian friends house I'll eat whatever she cooks me, I don't expect her to cook any meat for me.

See of my friends down the street from me and his family are practicing Hindus, so they don't eat meat, and i absolutely love eating dinner with them. The food his mom makes is simply amazing. ^__^ granted its so spicy it can singe your eyebrows haha

Kirozane August 24th, 2010 7:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Live_Wire466 (Post 6100264)
No no im not saying everybody should go vegetarian, or vice-versa because its easier on the environment. Production wise, its less costly, that what i was getting at. Its hard on the environment to support either of them really. like you said, that balance is so thin any change can have disastrous consequences. Not many people realize how much money it takes to produce the meat we buy from the grocery store, or the fruits and vegetables we buy.

Interesting tidbit:

it takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of processed beef, from birth to slaughterhouse.

Organic foods can cost 50-100% more than their counterparts at the store

Yeah. I think I just got carried away.
But as true as it would be that it would be less costly to let the meat die of natural causes, it wouldn't be as healthy that way, in any sense of the word.

Basically, we're in a hole where we have to expend the resources we do in order to keep balance. If switching diet was all it took (and oh man I wish it were...) I would do it gladly.

And I THINK Organic foods cost more because there might be some issues still without the use of chemicals which could be worse than side affects when they are used. I believe they are being cautious in case of a problem like that outbreaking in their particular crop(s).

Katie_Q August 24th, 2010 11:27 PM

A bit off topic, but to do with the organic thing. I've seen pesticide being sprayed on crops. The sprayers were wearing protective clothing and head gear, which means that it's dangerous. So yeah it's a bit stupid. And because of organic being more expensive (I think it's because they aren't using the chemicals to kill off the bugs, so theres not enough crop all the time. But I'm not sure...) not everyone can afford it. My family prefers organic, but we have so many loans to pay off and just can't afford it. Which is annoying.

Rich Boy Rob August 26th, 2010 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katie_Q (Post 6101472)
A bit off topic, but to do with the organic thing. I've seen pesticide being sprayed on crops. The sprayers were wearing protective clothing and head gear, which means that it's dangerous. So yeah it's a bit stupid.

That's because breathing in gallons upon gallons of insecticide would be lethal. However the tiny percentage that remains on the individual harvested crops is by far and away no where near a lethal dosage and that's before the harvested crops are cleaned. That is unless you ate something like an entire fields worth of crops without them being cleaned, as the poison would accumulate.

BakingBluePotatoe August 26th, 2010 4:59 PM

I'm one of those in-betweeners.

see, I'll gladly take some Chicken or Turkey or whatever. But if it's not a bird, I Will. NOT Eat it. The ONLY exception I'm making are the Chillidogs from Sonic. Those things are AMAZING. (I MAY on occasion eat a small bit of Grandma's Meatloaf. I dunno how she does it, but whatever she does, it's REALLY good!)

Oh, and as for eggs and milk...
Milk, for whatever reason, makes me get a stomach ache if I get too much at one time. So I don't really drink much of that stuff now. I'll just take Silk if I can.
and Eggs? I don't ever remember being particularly fond of them for some reason-They always had to have at least 2 other ingredients with them, Cheese, Ketchup, on a sandwich with Turkey and Lettuce, ANYTHING, JUST NOT PLAIN.

It's really just a diet thing... not so much the eggs/milk thing though. (then again I never particularly liked Red Meats to begin with... Uhg, I hate Sausage. (though, I really loved pepperoni)

and as often as meats and now EGGS are getting recalled... yeah.
But, I'm still growing, I really should have SOME sort of meat, and for whatever reason, Chickens seem to be like Superman. XD (not to say that Chickens haven't been recalled before... I just can't remember it happening in a long while)


yeah. Either I suddenly became VERY picky, or I'm overly paranoid. I dunno.

EDIT: my dad is vegetarian, so that kinda influenced me.

Belinda August 26th, 2010 7:15 PM

I've tried being a vegetarian multiple times, however being by a carnivore family always, I just couldn't resist to go back to eating meat. I got sick of being one last time I tried it merely lasted a month, afterwards back to being a meat eater. I have gotten the idea to be partial vegetarian and meat eating (half the month green friendly the other half meat eating). And that's how it is now.

FlameDancer August 26th, 2010 8:09 PM

I'm vegan for ethical reasons. I always wanted to growing up as well, but since I was so thin and was a dancer, my parents were concerned I wouldn't get adequate nutrition. In my junior year of high school, my teacher wanted me to dissect a house cat and when I refused, he made it an issue and told me that if I did not complete the dissection he would fail me despite my other good grades in his class. When I did my reseach online to see if this was legal, I came across SO many websites and facts and pictures that changed my life, and I knew that after being exposed to what I had seen I couldn't continue on not being vegetarian anymore.

As I see it, humans don't need to harm or consume animals to thrive at all, so why would we? I can eat my dinner, and enjoy it thoroughly, without an animal having to suffer and die for it, so I can't imagine not living my life that way...it seems cruel to me

I am not a judgemental person, and I live this way for myself only. I do not push my personal thoughts or ethics on anyone, and I appreciate it when people respect my decisions like I respect theirs. Soooo that's my story :)

Richard Lynch August 26th, 2010 11:27 PM

I thought about becoming a vegetarian... for about a business day. I started thinking about the implications; not of the food, but of the philosophy. Veganism in particular perplexes me... the entire philosophy is not eating anything living or anything derived from something living. So, how can you then eat green, when that green was once living? Eating fruit: citrus abortion. Why wash your hands when, in doing so, you kill microorganisms? What denotes a life? And if this is the case, do vegans then empirically claim that their lives, and the lives of other blooded animals, are more important than the lesser lives of plants and cells?

Afterall, you never see an activist group holding signs that say "Save the bacteria!" or "Free the cancer cells!"

Perhaps people can answer my questions here. I'm not mocking the vegans, I'm just curious about the philosophy of it.

EDIT: Just saw this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by revelp8 (Post 6099991)
And yes, pesticides do actually cause harm. pesticide poisoning, not only to us the consumers, but to the actual farmers harvesting your food. But to tie this back in to the topic...errr nevermind.

There was a time when pesticides could be dangerous, but not really anymore. In fact, most of the commonly used pesticides can be broken down into harmless substances (phosphoric acid, for example - this is actually a preservative) with just water and time. That's how they're made: they're intended to keep crops clean while they grow, and to break down before they reach the shelf. We've advanced enough in this science to bring the pesticide poisoning level to virtually zero. Organic activists, I've found (and no offense to organic activists here) are generally uninformed about that which they fight against. At least in the scientific aspects of it. Just remember that when you eat organic, you're eating food that was grown in cow poop. Simple as that. ;)

poopnoodle August 27th, 2010 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Lynch (Post 6106770)
I thought about becoming a vegetarian... for about a business day. I started thinking about the implications; not of the food, but of the philosophy. Veganism in particular perplexes me... the entire philosophy is not eating anything living or anything derived from something living. So, how can you then eat green, when that green was once living? Eating fruit: citrus abortion. Why wash your hands when, in doing so, you kill microorganisms? What denotes a life? And if this is the case, do vegans then empirically claim that their lives, and the lives of other blooded animals, are more important than the lesser lives of plants and cells?

before i quit my vegan diet my philosophy wasn't about the value of life but the discomfort in eating something that has suffered and died for our gratification. we can reasonably assume that plants and the like don't experience the pain more complex organisms do, so with that mindset, there's less guilt with eating greens. but there are people who only eat what has died naturally, i forgot the name of that diet.

Weeaboo Name August 27th, 2010 1:12 AM

I'm a strict vegetarian, not a vegan but i only buy milk from brands that i cantrust and i very rarely have eggs (unless i buy them from a farm shop, living in Norfolk i don;t have to go far)

It's 100% for ethical reasons. Yeah, that's about it.

Katie_Q August 27th, 2010 3:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Lynch (Post 6106770)

EDIT: Just saw this:



There was a time when pesticides could be dangerous, but not really anymore. In fact, most of the commonly used pesticides can be broken down into harmless substances (phosphoric acid, for example - this is actually a preservative) with just water and time. That's how they're made: they're intended to keep crops clean while they grow, and to break down before they reach the shelf. We've advanced enough in this science to bring the pesticide poisoning level to virtually zero. Organic activists, I've found (and no offense to organic activists here) are generally uninformed about that which they fight against. At least in the scientific aspects of it. Just remember that when you eat organic, you're eating food that was grown in cow poop. Simple as that. ;)

I'm not sure about you, but I actually WASH my food just incase it had cow poop in it. You do know that cow poop isn't always used for organic food though right? ;) Yeah, bit of a failing argument. But I'm no good at arguing so i can't talk. I'd rather eat as naturally as I can. Nature's made earth last a heck of a time, so I think I'd rather trust that then something with chemicals in it thats been around for such a short amount of time. Being in school and doing science, and so far not learning anything about it, I don't want to look up EXTRA science to back me up. (I'm so lazy, right?) But since I've not really heard that organic will harm me, in fact just the opposite, and the fact that natures a little more powerful then me, I just feel better with organic.

But hey, thats just me.

Master Bait August 27th, 2010 4:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad - (Post 6095072)
And if you are a vegetarian, how does it feel? And what reasons made you become one?

Because I hate plants. Eating plants makes me feel strong though.

Richard Lynch August 27th, 2010 8:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katie_Q (Post 6107053)
I'm not sure about you, but I actually WASH my food just incase it had cow poop in it. You do know that cow poop isn't always used for organic food though right? ;) Yeah, bit of a failing argument. But I'm no good at arguing so i can't talk. I'd rather eat as naturally as I can. Nature's made earth last a heck of a time, so I think I'd rather trust that then something with chemicals in it thats been around for such a short amount of time. Being in school and doing science, and so far not learning anything about it, I don't want to look up EXTRA science to back me up. (I'm so lazy, right?) But since I've not really heard that organic will harm me, in fact just the opposite, and the fact that natures a little more powerful then me, I just feel better with organic.

But hey, thats just me.

Oh, of course it's not always grown in cow poop. But (at least here in the States) in order for something to be certified organic, it must be grown using natural fertilizers (poop). I'm not anti-organic by any means, I just think the movement has gone too far... there are people who want EVERYTHING to be organic (as in, mandated by law), and I don't agree with that. The fact of the matter is that chemicals help crops grow faster and larger, and help grow more of them, which means more food for the world. If everything was legally bound to be organic, our food supplies would diminish drastically (and, variably, the price would increase), which means that more people would starve. That's my beef, not with organic food, but the hard-core organic food activists.

Guillermo August 27th, 2010 9:25 PM

You need to eat meat for various reasons, a big one being health.

With that said, humans are natural plant-eaters.

Rogue planet August 28th, 2010 4:43 AM

In theory I think it's a very nice idea.

In practice I think it's inconvenient.

I simply don't care enough to fuss about what I eat over. So I'm not a vegetarian.

I have respect for anyone who decides to be vegetarian or vegan, I have the same amount of respect for anyone who doesn't. I don't have respect for anyone who tries forcing others to adopt a particular diet. In the end, it's all down to personal preference. In the end some people are always going to eat meat, if some people choose not to that's their choice, but either side trying to persuade the other to change their dietary ways is just silly.

Also people can remain perfectly healthy with a vegan diet.

MissFrederick September 7th, 2010 10:27 AM

I'm actually a vegetarian. I follow a diet that doesn't include meat. It does include eggs, milk, etc. The rest of my family however, eat meat (and my Grandma once told me not to be stupid when I said I was considering becoming a vegetarian) while I choose to follow the path of vegetarianism.

Why did I become a vegetarian? because I hate meat. I don't like the taste of meat, and I really don't like the texture of meat. That's the only reason; I just don't like meat. When I was kid and we had roast dinner, I would trade the meat on my plate for the potatoes on my brother's plate. I just eventually thought 'What's the point of eating something if I don't like it?' And that's how I became a vegetarian.

I've been a vegetarian for around two and a half years now and I don't regret it. My Mum has been supportive of my choice too. And I don't understand why people feel the need to apologise when they eat meat products in front of me. Eat your meat products, it's none of my business to tell you what to eat and where. x3

I also feel that people who eat meat help to keep the world in balance.

Kleinchen September 7th, 2010 11:26 AM

I'm not a vegetarian, but I have considered becoming one. Mostly for personal health reasons -- I have several stomach problems that makes digesting meat rather unpleasant for me if I consume large amounts of it. But my family is definitely a meat-eating family and because I'm still living at home, going vegetarian would be very inconvenient and somewhat impractical. So instead I've just tried to limit my meat-eating to just a couple times a week and try to stick more to white meat and fish instead of red meat. It's been working pretty well for me -- I still get to eat foods I enjoy but on a level low enough that it's not making me sick. :]

PlatinumDude September 7th, 2010 4:36 PM

I'm not a vegetarian, but I respect the decisions of those who choose that path because I know that people can't eat meat all the time.

twocows September 7th, 2010 5:07 PM

I'm not going to say I always respect peoples' decisions (because to me, that implies that I think it is a good decision), but I'm usually tolerant unless their decisions negatively affect others. Vegetarianism doesn't really hurt anyone, so I don't have any problems with it. That said, it's something I wouldn't do myself. I can see the reasoning for it but it's not something I'm interested in doing.

Åzurε September 7th, 2010 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocows (Post 6137171)
I'm not going to say I always respect peoples' decisions (because to me, that implies that I think it is a good decision), but I'm usually tolerant unless their decisions negatively affect others. Vegetarianism doesn't really hurt anyone, so I don't have any problems with it. That said, it's something I wouldn't do myself. I can see the reasoning for it but it's not something I'm interested in doing.

My words have been taken from me and posted on the internet before I could type them.

Rapidash September 8th, 2010 4:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Boy Rob (Post 6095159)

Besides, if I was a vegetarian I wouldn't survive. Not without bacon.

Thiiiiiiiiiiiis. I need bacon.

To me, humans are omnivores, it's just the way it's meant to be.

Bear September 8th, 2010 5:45 AM

I've been vegetarian for a few years now. It started out with me discovering one day that I hate the taste of pork. It's a dirty animal and you can taste it.
Perhaps I'm just naturally Jewish.

From there I decided to do a bit of reasearch and to familiarise myself with what I'm feeding myself. A few scary documentaries later I made the full transition. It was pretty easy, really. There are loads of different substitutes for meat that are delicious. Plus plant fibre is broken down much faster in the stomach than meat fibre, so you can literally eat all day long and not gain any weight.

Aquacorde September 8th, 2010 7:56 AM

I agree that some meats and whatnot are filthy foods, but I also know that meat animals that were bred&raised by small-time farmers or hobby farmers are very clean.
I don't agree with vegetarianism because humans are biologically omnivores, and our entire system is tuned to take advantage of it. Poultry and fish are especially good meats.
A misconception that I see a lot is that if you are not vegetarian, you are not expected to eat vegetables. Obviously this is not true. Humans need vegetables as much as other foods because vegetables provide so many nutrients that the body can take advantage of. And the richer the color of the veggie, the more packed it is with good-for-you nutrients.

Metatron September 9th, 2010 1:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSmartOne (Post 6138221)

I don't agree with vegetarianism because humans are biologically omnivores, and our entire system is tuned to take advantage of it.

....Very debatable. Anatomically, humans are far more similar to herbivores than carnivores or omnivores. We have the same intestinal tract length, stomach acidity, alkaline saliva (weaker digestive enzymes ), etc as herbivores. Though we are capable of digesting the flesh of other animals, that does not mean that we are biologically suited to do so.

I have been a vegetarian for going on 3 years now. The decision to cut meat from my diet wasn't something that took much thought beforehand; I literally just woke up one day and decided that it was against my moral character to consume animals simply for how they taste (not to say that I'm "morally superior" to anyone else; it's totally your choice what you want to eat).

...And for the record, I am totally healthy ._.

Yingxue September 11th, 2010 8:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Boy Rob (Post 6095159)
Do you have cat or dog? If so do you feed them dog/cat food? If yes, then how come you have no problem feeding them meat?

Because they're obligate carnivores, I am not.

I decided to do it because for me, I cannot justify eating meat. I have no need for it, and I don't even really like the taste/.texture...>>; I also found I lost a lot of weight cutting out meat and fried foods, and I feel better.

People shouldn't be so impolite about a personal decision like what one eats...>>;

MrsNorrington September 11th, 2010 11:07 AM

I'm a vegetarian for life! <3


It's not really about whether or not humans have evolved to eat meat. It's already scientifically proven that we are meant to be herbivores-study our digestive system, and our teeth, if you don't believe me. It's the fact that the food industry is so cruel and inhumane towards animals.



Personally, I think murder is evil, no matter what species it is your killing, it's still murder. But if humans feel the need to eat meat, they should do so the way that Native Americans and other ancient society's went about doing it-they had the utmost respect for all animals, they never inhumanely tortured animals, they would only kill what they needed, they would pray for the soul of the creature and thank it, and they would not let a single part of that creature go waste. But if humans are unwilling to do so, then it is completely wrong to eat meat.



Vegetarianism is the right thing to do, any other lifestyle is mindblowingly wrong. Eating meat is crueltly toward animals, destroying our environment (deforestation, greenhouse gases causing global warming, food shortages, etc), and it is unhealthy for our bodies.



Here's some of my favourite quotes:



“If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian.”

Paul McCartney


"While we ourselves are the living graves of murdered beasts, how can we expect any ideal conditions on this earth?" -George Bernard Shaw

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.-Mahatma Ghandhi

"If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who deal likewise with their fellow men. Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission - to be of service to them wherever they require it." -St.Francis of Assisi
...
"The eating of meat extinguishes
the seed of great compassion." -Buddha

"The love for all living creatures
is the most noble attribute of man."-Charles Darwin

As long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seeds of murder and pain cannot reap the joy of love.
—Pythagoras

When a man wants to murder a tiger, he calls it sport; when a tiger wants to murder him, he calls it ferocity.
—George Bernard Shaw

When a human being kills an animal for food, he is neglecting his own hunger for justice. Man prays for mercy, but is unwilling to extend it to others. Why then should man expect mercy from God? It is unfair to expect something that you are not willing to give.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer

A man can live and be healthy without killing animals for food; therefore, if he eats meat, he participates in taking animal life merely for the sake of his appetite. And to act so is immoral.
—Leo Tolstoy

Even in the worm that crawls in the earth there glows a divine spark. When you slaughter a creature, you slaughter God.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer

twocows September 11th, 2010 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsNorrington (Post 6146741)
Vegetarianism is the right thing to do, any other lifestyle is mindblowingly wrong. Eating meat is crueltly toward animals, destroying our environment (deforestation, greenhouse gases causing global warming, food shortages, etc), and it is unhealthy for our bodies.

This is the kind of response that really ticks me off. If you want to refrain from eating meat due to what you think morality is or isn't, feel free to do so. However, you have no right to say that the rest of us are immoral for believing otherwise. I give blood four times a year and have donated over $200 to the Red Cross in the past three years (despite not having a steady source of income). I don't care to be told that I'm a bad human being for choosing to live my life the way I do. And what about people who eat meat out of necessity? Are you going to tell the nomads in Africa that they're evil, horrible people because they are physically unable to survive without hunting?

It is THIS attitude that makes me so hostile toward many vegans. Feel free to live how you wish to live, but don't try to force your moral system on others.

Bear September 11th, 2010 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsNorrington (Post 6146741)
Personally, I think murder is evil

...

So anyway, I agree with twocows. Whenever I've told someone irl who isn't vegetarian that I am one, I've been met with this preconceived idea of vegetarians being these uppity, earmuff-wearing hipsters who look down on the feeble minded meat-eaters (meaters?) and then promptly walk away with a Bob Dylan record in one hand and a celery stick in the other...
or whatever.

My point is this - MrsNorrington, you can't preach that eating meat is mindblowingly wrong and that it causes deforestation, global warming and food shortages. Not because it's incorrect (which it is), but because, like, people then assume I think that too.

,_,

Christopher September 11th, 2010 11:54 AM

I have no problems with the non preachy Vegetarians hey more meat for me.
as for me being evil for eating meat hardly its not cruel. is a lion some evil demonic creature because it eats a Gazelle ? Call me evil if I eat you okay. plus if everyone stopped eating meat we would starve we cannot produce enough food (Vegies/Fruits) to sustain the earths population, also Main source of protein is meat I'm not one for rabbit starvation so....yeah.

wobbadude1 September 11th, 2010 12:01 PM

I used to respect vegetarians until I had one as a housemate- then I discovered that they can be very narrow minded, rude and insensitive to other people's beliefs (diet or otherwise). Don't forget Adolf Hitler the evilest man who has ever lived was a vegetarian! Having said that- I understand that's just a minority of people as with anything. My point is just cos they are vegetarian doesn't mean they are nice and sensitive.

My personal beliefs is to try everything- I embraced the French culture recently and tried snails. Delicious!! :D

Metatron September 11th, 2010 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wobbadude1 (Post 6146868)
Don't forget Adolf Hitler the evilest man who has ever lived was a vegetarian!

What flawless logic. By making a personal decision not to eat meat, a decision which does not affect you or any other meat-eater in any way whatsoever, all vegetarians are comparable to a man responsible for the deaths of 17 million people. Brilliant.

Well guys, guess I should go indulge myself in a hamburger. I mean y'know, it's not like I want blood on my hands. /sarcasm

...Get the hell out.

Charizard★ September 11th, 2010 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wobbadude1 (Post 6146868)
I used to respect vegetarians until I had one as a housemate- then I discovered that they can be very narrow minded, rude and insensitive to other people's beliefs (diet or otherwise). Don't forget Adolf Hitler the evilest man who has ever lived was a vegetarian! Having said that- I understand that's just a minority of people as with anything. My point is just cos they are vegetarian doesn't mean they are nice and sensitive.

How can vegetarians be rude and incentive? Thats like saying, Carnivores are mindless eating machines.

Esper September 11th, 2010 1:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charizard★ (Post 6147020)

How can vegetarians be rude and incentive? Thats like saying, Carnivores are mindless eating machines.

The same way anybody can be rude and insensitive.

I'd like it if everyone who's had a bad encounter with a vegetarian could think of it as a bad encounter with a person who got on their nerves and who only happened to be a vegetarian rather than think that it was bad because the person was vegetarian and that being a vegetarian turns you into an annoying person. Or in other words, that self-righteous people are just like that and they'll find one thing or another to be self-righteous about no matter what.

Yeah, that'll be the day. Now I'm going to go eat a salad.

MrsNorrington September 11th, 2010 1:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocows (Post 6146765)
This is the kind of response that really ticks me off. If you want to refrain from eating meat due to what you think morality is or isn't, feel free to do so. However, you have no right to say that the rest of us are immoral for believing otherwise. I give blood four times a year and have donated over $200 to the Red Cross in the past three years (despite not having a steady source of income). I don't care to be told that I'm a bad human being for choosing to live my life the way I do. And what about people who eat meat out of necessity? Are you going to tell the nomads in Africa that they're evil, horrible people because they are physically unable to survive without hunting?

It is THIS attitude that makes me so hostile toward many vegans. Feel free to live how you wish to live, but don't try to force your moral system on others.

Not trying to upset you. I won't hate you if you eat meat.

But it is true that it is morally wrong. How is it okay to kill animals, how is it okay to destroy the planet, and how is it okay to hurt your own body?

Rich Boy Rob September 11th, 2010 2:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsNorrington (Post 6146741)
Personally, I think murder is evil, no matter what species it is your killing, it's still murder. But if humans feel the need to eat meat, they should do so the way that Native Americans and other ancient society's went about doing it-they had the utmost respect for all animals, they never inhumanely tortured animals, they would only kill what they needed, they would pray for the soul of the creature and thank it, and they would not let a single part of that creature go waste. But if humans are unwilling to do so, then it is completely wrong to eat meat.

You see this is why I hate how native americans are presented in the american school system. Do you know how they hunted Buffalo (strictly speaking they're Bison, but meh)? They cause a herd of them to stampede and lead them towards a cliff. Mass death ensues. Don't tell me they used all of the animals either. They may have had uses for all parts, but they didn't harvest an entire herd from top-to-bottom, they just used what was needed.
So I ask you, is that more humane than a bolt of electricity through the brain which is never felt?


Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsNorrington (Post 6146741)
Vegetarianism is the right thing to do, any other lifestyle is mindblowingly wrong. Eating meat is crueltly toward animals, destroying our environment (deforestation, greenhouse gases causing global warming, food shortages, etc), and it is unhealthy for our bodies.

I'll give you deforestation and depending on your moral standpoint, animal cruelty, but as for global warming, it would far, far, far worse if no meat beef were eaten. You see with the amount of cattle there is in the world now, they account for a huge portion of the greenhouse gasses emitted, but if we stopped eating them, then their primary predator would be gone causing a massive bloom in the population, in turn increasing methane released. Also, the population bloom would mean that too much vegetation would be eaten, leaving less for other herbivorous species, thus upsetting the ecosystem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsNorrington (Post 6147146)
But it is true that it is morally wrong. How is it okay to kill animals, how is it okay to destroy the planet, and how is it okay to hurt your own body?


1. Morals are not in any way universal.
2. It is just as okay for us to kill animals as it is for other predators. Especially as we do it humanely nowadays.
3. See above comment about global warming.
4. You mean like how on average, vegetarians are lacking in certain vitamins?

Livewire September 11th, 2010 3:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsNorrington (Post 6147146)
Not trying to upset you. I won't hate you if you eat meat.

But it is true that it is morally wrong. How is it okay to kill animals, how is it okay to destroy the planet, and how is it okay to hurt your own body?

Eating meat is not even in the slightest morally wrong. We are animals, and we eat meat like every other carnivore on the planet. That's how things work. Morals do not exist in nature.

Luck September 11th, 2010 4:01 PM

I'd never be able to do it, my spirit is just to weak to give up chicken. I know it's perfectly reasonable to be one, but chicken is the only thing holding me back from being a vegetarian/vegan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metatron (Post 6140040)
....Very debatable. Anatomically, humans are far more similar to herbivores than carnivores or omnivores. We have the same intestinal tract length, stomach acidity, alkaline saliva (weaker digestive enzymes ), etc as herbivores. Though we are capable of digesting the flesh of other animals, that does not mean that we are biologically suited to do so.

Our inability to digest cellulose would be pretty crippling, humans would be crappy as being anything of either side. We also have the teeth of omnivores and we have eyes in front of our heads instead of to the side.

MrsNorrington September 11th, 2010 5:13 PM

It wouldn't bother me as much if humans would humanly do it. But they don't, because they are too greedy.

twocows September 11th, 2010 6:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsNorrington (Post 6147146)
But it is true that it is morally wrong. How is it okay to kill animals, how is it okay to destroy the planet, and how is it okay to hurt your own body?

1. How is it acceptable to kill animals?
I think a better question is, why is it not acceptable to kill animals? Animals lack conscience, emotion, or moral understanding. And all known animal species except apes, elephants, and bottlenose dolphins lack self-awareness. In my eyes, killing something that has never been and is never capable of being self-aware is no different than destroying equipment or property: bad to do without reason, but acceptable if it benefits humans.
2. How is it acceptable to destroy the planet?
Of course it's not acceptable to destroy the planet, but there are laws and standards in place to prevent any damage brought on by the meat industry. There are many industries that contribute far more to the destruction of the environment than the meat industry (the automotive industry, to name one). And there are tribes in Africa and South America whose existence relies on what is known as a "slash and burn" lifestyle, which is extremely harmful to the environment, but necessary for their survival.
3. How is it acceptable to hurt your body?
Provided you understand the consequences, it is your body to do what you please with, and as long as it doesn't bring harm to others there is no problem with it. Personal freedom is one of the core values that free societies are based upon, and nobody should have the right to take that away when it does not bring harm to others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsNorrington (Post 6147768)
It wouldn't bother me as much if humans would humanly do it. But they don't, because they are too greedy.

If you have ever been to a meat factory or slaughterhouse, you would know that the way meat animals are killed is perfectly humane, if rather unsightly. Death occurs instantly and the animal feels no pain (not that they could understand it if they did).

wobbadude1 September 12th, 2010 7:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metatron (Post 6146943)
What flawless logic.

I have met 5 vegetarians in my life. 3 of them are idiots (not cos of their dieting beliefs- they just are). The other 2- nice down to earth people. Finish reading my point. Just cos someone IS a vegetarian doesn't mean they are a friendly person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charizard★ (Post 6147020)

How can vegetarians be rude and incentive? Thats like saying, Carnivores are mindless eating machines.

If you met my ex-housemate you would withdraw that statement! Also, technically we're omnivores. We eat both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarf (Post 6147032)
The same way anybody can be rude and insensitive.
.

Thank you! Well said! Exactly my point!

Ficher September 12th, 2010 9:28 AM

I don't mind or care if anyone is vegetarian, since it's your choice and I should respect it at least, I love my meat and chicken.

bna_li September 12th, 2010 10:50 AM

I don't care whether you're a vegetarian or not. It's all the same to me. Just as I respect your lifestyle choice, you should mine.

What I want to talk about are people who eat chicken and fish and say that it's vegetarian -.-

Gymnotide September 13th, 2010 1:52 PM

This post is to help you get yer emblem, Chad.

Anyway, I am not a vegetarian, but I enjoy eating vegetarian-oriented foods a lot... Even vegan foods sometime, but that's another story. There's just something enthralling about eating meat substitute. Though, I don't get enough protein, even through vegetarian-friendly foods.


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