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revelp8 August 24th, 2010 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Boy Rob (Post 6099944)
But why pay more, more for food that has not been treated with chemicals that the farmers pay for in the first place. The chemicals don't hurt you any way and bioaccumilation can be averted, so I see no reason to pay more for it.


But... that isn't vegetarianism. Poultry is meat. Vegetarians are people who don't eat meat. It's just like people who claim to be vegetarians but eat fish. Fish is a meat. It is the flesh of an animal, therefore it is meat.

Organic food is a limited supply, that is why its more expensive than conventional food, not to mention loads of variables that need to be taken into consideration about growing organic food, which inevitably means its going to be expensive. And yes, pesticides do actually cause harm. pesticide poisoning, not only to us the consumers, but to the actual farmers harvesting your food. But to tie this back in to the topic...errr nevermind.

There are many different kinds of vegetarianism as well. Yes, chicken is a meat, but its a WHITE meat. therefore, it would be called semi-vegetarian and so forth. And that's acceptable too as well, its a person's choice.

Livewire August 24th, 2010 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirozane (Post 6099046)
Not quite, actually... In terms of production methods, yes, being vegetarian IS indeed more Eco friendly... but at the same time it is not. And there is also a reason why the meat "normal omnivorous humans" DO consume largely is from herbivorous/omnivorous animals, and it's not just because of the extra nutrients obtained through it. (even if we only receive 10% of what they received, thus only 1% of the photosynthetic energy the plants received from the sun.)

It's, ulteriorly, a way to keep a type of check/balance. If we suddenly stopped consuming meat, even if we could still obtain a healthy amount of nutrients from such a lifestyle, it would be a terrible decision when you look at the ecosystem developmentally. We are now what keeps a lot of herbivorous species in check... Livestock more specifically. (even if we are also the reason they're on the verge of ballooning out of control in the first place...) If we suddenly stopped killing them for food, and let them produce at will, even if another animal started to pick them off, it wouldn't be at as rapid a pace, thus the population of these creatures would swell out of control... and thus an overconsumption of plants would occur, causing their lifespans and growth patterns to shift dramatically.

If I need to back up this argument, allow me to go off topic with my basis. Wolves. In Yellowstone more specifically.

Spoiler:
Humans feared the wolves, and thus ran them to the point of extinction, completely running them out of the area. They were the main predator keeping the deer population in check. Without the wolves keeping their numbers to a reasonable level, the population swelled beyond the area's carrying capacity. This caused the deer to eat what they could find, including stripping saplings and other trees of their bark, which caused the trees to reach maturity faster, and shrinking the area's average size compared to those that had been around before the wolves' "expulsion". Essentially, the overcrowding of herbivores was killing the area. Finally when the wolf was reintroduced, the deer population started to slowly dwindle back to optimum levels, and the area has since begun to recover considerably.


Basically, If humanity all decided to go vegetarian due to just being more Eco friendly with production methods, we would be essentially exhausting the world's resources faster than nature could recover from. It would bring about mass conflict over who controls the more rapidly dwindling resources and how to portion it "fairly" (though the past has shown that is never the case...) which would, of course, spiral further out of control.

So, I think what I'm trying to say here is, as good of an idea as it is, we are currently in a spot where the omnivore population has to considerably outnumber the herbivore/vegetarian population of humanity to keep a type of check or balance in order.

Believe it or not, I actually agree to an extent, Live. It's just AP Bio has taught me to really nitpick these types of things. I just couldn't keep the "flaws"/missed details I spotted to myself.

Though I may just be looking too far into it again... I always find an argument at 1 AM.

No no im not saying everybody should go vegetarian, or vice-versa because its easier on the environment. Production wise, its less costly, that what i was getting at. Its hard on the environment to support either of them really. like you said, that balance is so thin any change can have disastrous consequences. Not many people realize how much money it takes to produce the meat we buy from the grocery store, or the fruits and vegetables we buy.

Interesting tidbit:

it takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of processed beef, from birth to slaughterhouse.

Organic foods can cost 50-100% more than their counterparts at the store

Zeph. August 24th, 2010 12:12 PM

Each to their own I suppose. If you're a vegetarian, then be one - just don't get your hopes up that it'll stop animals being slaughtered.

I myself am not a vegetarian. I think it's perfectly natural and harmless to eat other animals. And, let's face it, meat is gooood... o_o

Rich Boy Rob August 24th, 2010 3:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revelp8 (Post 6099991)
There are many different kinds of vegetarianism as well. Yes, chicken is a meat, but its a WHITE meat. therefore, it would be called semi-vegetarian and so forth. And that's acceptable too as well, its a person's choice.


veg·e·tar·i·an (vj-târ-n)
n.
1. One who practices vegetarianism.
2. A herbivore.
adj.
1. Of or relating to vegetarianism or vegetarians.
2. Consisting wholly of vegetables and vegetable products: a vegetarian diet.


Noun: pescatarian ,pes-ku'teh-ree-un
A person who eats fish and shellfish but not meat
- pescetarian

Pollotarianism (also called pollo-vegetarianism) is a neologism to denote a dietary choice, in which a person does not consume mammalian meat such as beef, pork, and lamb, but does consume chicken. As with lacto-ovo vegetarianism, there are usually no restrictions on non-flesh animal products such as dairy and eggs.

Annoyingly I couldn't find a site with all 3 definitions, so enjoy the mish-mash.

BareBones August 24th, 2010 5:53 PM

I'm not a Vegetarian. I do, however, support Vegetarians fully. I just couldn't live without chicken. But if I go to my Vegetarian friends house I'll eat whatever she cooks me, I don't expect her to cook any meat for me.

Livewire August 24th, 2010 7:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BareBones (Post 6100950)
I'm not a Vegetarian. I do, however, support Vegetarians fully. I just couldn't live without chicken. But if I go to my Vegetarian friends house I'll eat whatever she cooks me, I don't expect her to cook any meat for me.

See of my friends down the street from me and his family are practicing Hindus, so they don't eat meat, and i absolutely love eating dinner with them. The food his mom makes is simply amazing. ^__^ granted its so spicy it can singe your eyebrows haha

Kirozane August 24th, 2010 7:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Live_Wire466 (Post 6100264)
No no im not saying everybody should go vegetarian, or vice-versa because its easier on the environment. Production wise, its less costly, that what i was getting at. Its hard on the environment to support either of them really. like you said, that balance is so thin any change can have disastrous consequences. Not many people realize how much money it takes to produce the meat we buy from the grocery store, or the fruits and vegetables we buy.

Interesting tidbit:

it takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce a pound of processed beef, from birth to slaughterhouse.

Organic foods can cost 50-100% more than their counterparts at the store

Yeah. I think I just got carried away.
But as true as it would be that it would be less costly to let the meat die of natural causes, it wouldn't be as healthy that way, in any sense of the word.

Basically, we're in a hole where we have to expend the resources we do in order to keep balance. If switching diet was all it took (and oh man I wish it were...) I would do it gladly.

And I THINK Organic foods cost more because there might be some issues still without the use of chemicals which could be worse than side affects when they are used. I believe they are being cautious in case of a problem like that outbreaking in their particular crop(s).

Katie_Q August 24th, 2010 11:27 PM

A bit off topic, but to do with the organic thing. I've seen pesticide being sprayed on crops. The sprayers were wearing protective clothing and head gear, which means that it's dangerous. So yeah it's a bit stupid. And because of organic being more expensive (I think it's because they aren't using the chemicals to kill off the bugs, so theres not enough crop all the time. But I'm not sure...) not everyone can afford it. My family prefers organic, but we have so many loans to pay off and just can't afford it. Which is annoying.

Rich Boy Rob August 26th, 2010 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katie_Q (Post 6101472)
A bit off topic, but to do with the organic thing. I've seen pesticide being sprayed on crops. The sprayers were wearing protective clothing and head gear, which means that it's dangerous. So yeah it's a bit stupid.

That's because breathing in gallons upon gallons of insecticide would be lethal. However the tiny percentage that remains on the individual harvested crops is by far and away no where near a lethal dosage and that's before the harvested crops are cleaned. That is unless you ate something like an entire fields worth of crops without them being cleaned, as the poison would accumulate.

BakingBluePotatoe August 26th, 2010 4:59 PM

I'm one of those in-betweeners.

see, I'll gladly take some Chicken or Turkey or whatever. But if it's not a bird, I Will. NOT Eat it. The ONLY exception I'm making are the Chillidogs from Sonic. Those things are AMAZING. (I MAY on occasion eat a small bit of Grandma's Meatloaf. I dunno how she does it, but whatever she does, it's REALLY good!)

Oh, and as for eggs and milk...
Milk, for whatever reason, makes me get a stomach ache if I get too much at one time. So I don't really drink much of that stuff now. I'll just take Silk if I can.
and Eggs? I don't ever remember being particularly fond of them for some reason-They always had to have at least 2 other ingredients with them, Cheese, Ketchup, on a sandwich with Turkey and Lettuce, ANYTHING, JUST NOT PLAIN.

It's really just a diet thing... not so much the eggs/milk thing though. (then again I never particularly liked Red Meats to begin with... Uhg, I hate Sausage. (though, I really loved pepperoni)

and as often as meats and now EGGS are getting recalled... yeah.
But, I'm still growing, I really should have SOME sort of meat, and for whatever reason, Chickens seem to be like Superman. XD (not to say that Chickens haven't been recalled before... I just can't remember it happening in a long while)


yeah. Either I suddenly became VERY picky, or I'm overly paranoid. I dunno.

EDIT: my dad is vegetarian, so that kinda influenced me.

Belinda August 26th, 2010 7:15 PM

I've tried being a vegetarian multiple times, however being by a carnivore family always, I just couldn't resist to go back to eating meat. I got sick of being one last time I tried it merely lasted a month, afterwards back to being a meat eater. I have gotten the idea to be partial vegetarian and meat eating (half the month green friendly the other half meat eating). And that's how it is now.

FlameDancer August 26th, 2010 8:09 PM

I'm vegan for ethical reasons. I always wanted to growing up as well, but since I was so thin and was a dancer, my parents were concerned I wouldn't get adequate nutrition. In my junior year of high school, my teacher wanted me to dissect a house cat and when I refused, he made it an issue and told me that if I did not complete the dissection he would fail me despite my other good grades in his class. When I did my reseach online to see if this was legal, I came across SO many websites and facts and pictures that changed my life, and I knew that after being exposed to what I had seen I couldn't continue on not being vegetarian anymore.

As I see it, humans don't need to harm or consume animals to thrive at all, so why would we? I can eat my dinner, and enjoy it thoroughly, without an animal having to suffer and die for it, so I can't imagine not living my life that way...it seems cruel to me

I am not a judgemental person, and I live this way for myself only. I do not push my personal thoughts or ethics on anyone, and I appreciate it when people respect my decisions like I respect theirs. Soooo that's my story :)

Richard Lynch August 26th, 2010 11:27 PM

I thought about becoming a vegetarian... for about a business day. I started thinking about the implications; not of the food, but of the philosophy. Veganism in particular perplexes me... the entire philosophy is not eating anything living or anything derived from something living. So, how can you then eat green, when that green was once living? Eating fruit: citrus abortion. Why wash your hands when, in doing so, you kill microorganisms? What denotes a life? And if this is the case, do vegans then empirically claim that their lives, and the lives of other blooded animals, are more important than the lesser lives of plants and cells?

Afterall, you never see an activist group holding signs that say "Save the bacteria!" or "Free the cancer cells!"

Perhaps people can answer my questions here. I'm not mocking the vegans, I'm just curious about the philosophy of it.

EDIT: Just saw this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by revelp8 (Post 6099991)
And yes, pesticides do actually cause harm. pesticide poisoning, not only to us the consumers, but to the actual farmers harvesting your food. But to tie this back in to the topic...errr nevermind.

There was a time when pesticides could be dangerous, but not really anymore. In fact, most of the commonly used pesticides can be broken down into harmless substances (phosphoric acid, for example - this is actually a preservative) with just water and time. That's how they're made: they're intended to keep crops clean while they grow, and to break down before they reach the shelf. We've advanced enough in this science to bring the pesticide poisoning level to virtually zero. Organic activists, I've found (and no offense to organic activists here) are generally uninformed about that which they fight against. At least in the scientific aspects of it. Just remember that when you eat organic, you're eating food that was grown in cow poop. Simple as that. ;)

poopnoodle August 27th, 2010 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Lynch (Post 6106770)
I thought about becoming a vegetarian... for about a business day. I started thinking about the implications; not of the food, but of the philosophy. Veganism in particular perplexes me... the entire philosophy is not eating anything living or anything derived from something living. So, how can you then eat green, when that green was once living? Eating fruit: citrus abortion. Why wash your hands when, in doing so, you kill microorganisms? What denotes a life? And if this is the case, do vegans then empirically claim that their lives, and the lives of other blooded animals, are more important than the lesser lives of plants and cells?

before i quit my vegan diet my philosophy wasn't about the value of life but the discomfort in eating something that has suffered and died for our gratification. we can reasonably assume that plants and the like don't experience the pain more complex organisms do, so with that mindset, there's less guilt with eating greens. but there are people who only eat what has died naturally, i forgot the name of that diet.

Weeaboo Name August 27th, 2010 1:12 AM

I'm a strict vegetarian, not a vegan but i only buy milk from brands that i cantrust and i very rarely have eggs (unless i buy them from a farm shop, living in Norfolk i don;t have to go far)

It's 100% for ethical reasons. Yeah, that's about it.

Katie_Q August 27th, 2010 3:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Lynch (Post 6106770)

EDIT: Just saw this:



There was a time when pesticides could be dangerous, but not really anymore. In fact, most of the commonly used pesticides can be broken down into harmless substances (phosphoric acid, for example - this is actually a preservative) with just water and time. That's how they're made: they're intended to keep crops clean while they grow, and to break down before they reach the shelf. We've advanced enough in this science to bring the pesticide poisoning level to virtually zero. Organic activists, I've found (and no offense to organic activists here) are generally uninformed about that which they fight against. At least in the scientific aspects of it. Just remember that when you eat organic, you're eating food that was grown in cow poop. Simple as that. ;)

I'm not sure about you, but I actually WASH my food just incase it had cow poop in it. You do know that cow poop isn't always used for organic food though right? ;) Yeah, bit of a failing argument. But I'm no good at arguing so i can't talk. I'd rather eat as naturally as I can. Nature's made earth last a heck of a time, so I think I'd rather trust that then something with chemicals in it thats been around for such a short amount of time. Being in school and doing science, and so far not learning anything about it, I don't want to look up EXTRA science to back me up. (I'm so lazy, right?) But since I've not really heard that organic will harm me, in fact just the opposite, and the fact that natures a little more powerful then me, I just feel better with organic.

But hey, thats just me.

Master Bait August 27th, 2010 4:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad - (Post 6095072)
And if you are a vegetarian, how does it feel? And what reasons made you become one?

Because I hate plants. Eating plants makes me feel strong though.

Richard Lynch August 27th, 2010 8:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katie_Q (Post 6107053)
I'm not sure about you, but I actually WASH my food just incase it had cow poop in it. You do know that cow poop isn't always used for organic food though right? ;) Yeah, bit of a failing argument. But I'm no good at arguing so i can't talk. I'd rather eat as naturally as I can. Nature's made earth last a heck of a time, so I think I'd rather trust that then something with chemicals in it thats been around for such a short amount of time. Being in school and doing science, and so far not learning anything about it, I don't want to look up EXTRA science to back me up. (I'm so lazy, right?) But since I've not really heard that organic will harm me, in fact just the opposite, and the fact that natures a little more powerful then me, I just feel better with organic.

But hey, thats just me.

Oh, of course it's not always grown in cow poop. But (at least here in the States) in order for something to be certified organic, it must be grown using natural fertilizers (poop). I'm not anti-organic by any means, I just think the movement has gone too far... there are people who want EVERYTHING to be organic (as in, mandated by law), and I don't agree with that. The fact of the matter is that chemicals help crops grow faster and larger, and help grow more of them, which means more food for the world. If everything was legally bound to be organic, our food supplies would diminish drastically (and, variably, the price would increase), which means that more people would starve. That's my beef, not with organic food, but the hard-core organic food activists.

Guillermo August 27th, 2010 9:25 PM

You need to eat meat for various reasons, a big one being health.

With that said, humans are natural plant-eaters.

Rogue planet August 28th, 2010 4:43 AM

In theory I think it's a very nice idea.

In practice I think it's inconvenient.

I simply don't care enough to fuss about what I eat over. So I'm not a vegetarian.

I have respect for anyone who decides to be vegetarian or vegan, I have the same amount of respect for anyone who doesn't. I don't have respect for anyone who tries forcing others to adopt a particular diet. In the end, it's all down to personal preference. In the end some people are always going to eat meat, if some people choose not to that's their choice, but either side trying to persuade the other to change their dietary ways is just silly.

Also people can remain perfectly healthy with a vegan diet.

MissFrederick September 7th, 2010 10:27 AM

I'm actually a vegetarian. I follow a diet that doesn't include meat. It does include eggs, milk, etc. The rest of my family however, eat meat (and my Grandma once told me not to be stupid when I said I was considering becoming a vegetarian) while I choose to follow the path of vegetarianism.

Why did I become a vegetarian? because I hate meat. I don't like the taste of meat, and I really don't like the texture of meat. That's the only reason; I just don't like meat. When I was kid and we had roast dinner, I would trade the meat on my plate for the potatoes on my brother's plate. I just eventually thought 'What's the point of eating something if I don't like it?' And that's how I became a vegetarian.

I've been a vegetarian for around two and a half years now and I don't regret it. My Mum has been supportive of my choice too. And I don't understand why people feel the need to apologise when they eat meat products in front of me. Eat your meat products, it's none of my business to tell you what to eat and where. x3

I also feel that people who eat meat help to keep the world in balance.

Kleinchen September 7th, 2010 11:26 AM

I'm not a vegetarian, but I have considered becoming one. Mostly for personal health reasons -- I have several stomach problems that makes digesting meat rather unpleasant for me if I consume large amounts of it. But my family is definitely a meat-eating family and because I'm still living at home, going vegetarian would be very inconvenient and somewhat impractical. So instead I've just tried to limit my meat-eating to just a couple times a week and try to stick more to white meat and fish instead of red meat. It's been working pretty well for me -- I still get to eat foods I enjoy but on a level low enough that it's not making me sick. :]

PlatinumDude September 7th, 2010 4:36 PM

I'm not a vegetarian, but I respect the decisions of those who choose that path because I know that people can't eat meat all the time.

twocows September 7th, 2010 5:07 PM

I'm not going to say I always respect peoples' decisions (because to me, that implies that I think it is a good decision), but I'm usually tolerant unless their decisions negatively affect others. Vegetarianism doesn't really hurt anyone, so I don't have any problems with it. That said, it's something I wouldn't do myself. I can see the reasoning for it but it's not something I'm interested in doing.

Åzurε September 7th, 2010 7:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twocows (Post 6137171)
I'm not going to say I always respect peoples' decisions (because to me, that implies that I think it is a good decision), but I'm usually tolerant unless their decisions negatively affect others. Vegetarianism doesn't really hurt anyone, so I don't have any problems with it. That said, it's something I wouldn't do myself. I can see the reasoning for it but it's not something I'm interested in doing.

My words have been taken from me and posted on the internet before I could type them.


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