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Dying?
Hi, I'm QM, co-creator of Pokemon Shattered Dreams and the now defunct Eon Legends. Lately it seems to me that rom hacking is dying. Now I use the word dying because it can apply to various aspects. It could mean that its popularity is dying or the creativity is dying or that the originality is dying. You decide which one you think it is.
To me it seems that the creativity and originality of hacks is dying. A lot of hacks are just remakes or rehashses of old hacks. Not that anything is wrong with doing what you like, but seriously? When you bring nothing but the same to the table, what seperate your hacks from the others? I know a few people who have the mentality Why would I wanna play your hack when it's not different from his hack? Maybe its just me but it seems like the overall quality of hacks has dimished, and i don't see rom hacking living much longer with this many competitors doing the same old thing. Thoughts? PS: This has nothing to do with me or my personal hacks. I can honestly care less about how strong my own hack is going, its about the other hacks in these forums. Sometimes I want to kick back and play someone elses hack, to see what i can bring to the table, and frankly I've found very little hacks that i can get into and enjoy playing. To be honest we've (Team Vortex) done over 3300 downloads, i would be satisfied with 100; either way it means that what I'm doing appeals to someone else. |
I would like to think that the popularity of Rom-Hackers is actually increasing. I remember when I joined here 3 years ago. I don't remember as many threads of hacks, sub-sections like progressing hacks and all. It could be that we couldn't fit it all in one sub-forum XD. At the same time, the number of tools are increasing; knowledge is increasing day by day. I doubt it could be easier than this really. It might just be that we're all being a little too lazy, a little too dependent.
The last time I checked, there were quite a lot of new-ish threads in the Progressing Hacks. I don't remember, nor can I compare with the past. But, I don't think rom-hacking popularity is going down; I don't think it ever will. I do see a couple of threads now and again with boring stories. That might just be a little lack of creativity. But then I see some threads with a really interesting story, features and so on. I think the amount of G/S/C remakes is going down too. XD; I remember a lot of people trying to remake G/S/C a couple of months ago, but there's an improvement in the numbers. XD Frankly, I don't know how I can make my hack different from others. People are doing new features and an awesomely cool storyline all the time. I don't know whether I can differentiate or not. There are many competitors, they're doing the same things, that just means that rom hacking is more popular than ever really, even if they are doing the same old things. A few might pop up with something completely different, original and unique, eh? I'll just stop here. .__. o/ |
Well, I've always liked to try new ideas in the games I made (in rom hacking and otherwise) so I did just that in my new(first) hack. In fact, there aren't even any battles in it. (I wont go into details so people don't think I'm advertising it,) but if nothing else, I'm trying new ideas.
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I would disagree, alough some hacks are getting less updates, which my take is school or busyness with life, as this is happening with some games also. about originality, there is not a whole lot of ideas that work in pokemon that have not been used. i mean beat 8 then e4 right? ofcoarse some are different, or have cool unknown featurs or something, im making no sense here. This is probally gonna end like up the name thread. closed :x not. haha.
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Dying? I thought this place was getting more lively. Especially when they made this private, but then they made it public again to get even more attraction xD
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The quality is seen to be dying, but there is no true original ideas anymore because... Well, most that are possible have been taken. Hacking is getting more popular, but variety is dying more and more (such as what is being hacked. There used to be a fe more DS hacks, but now... Everyone hacks FR or Ruby, everything seemed better when there was more balance with people studying the 4th gen more)
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I am not seeing creativity and originality in current hacks, for it's maybe due to the fact that ideas are not available, as in used already by others. However, there is and will always be room for a lot of unique hacking and one should just scratch his head a little more.
Regarding the issue that ROM hacking is "dying", I don't really see it that way. A lot of new users are interested in hacking and it seems to be spreading a lot, through many popular sources. Nevertheless, real hackers are not so common now; you know, the ones that actually developed the tools, made a scripting language from scratch, and so forth. I'm not saying there aren't any good, capable hackers now, because there are. Let me be honest for a second. Take Pokémon Seinna for example, a hack developed by Manipulation. When I first joined PC, it was because of hacks like it and because it attracted me the most, being a hack of FR. It's indeed a 100% quality hack, one of which I rarely am seeing now. There are interesting, capable hacks, however, they do not appeal to me as much as Seinna and few other hacks do. Hacking is an art that will not die anytime soon, and will eventually be something common between Pokémon fans. I will stop writing now, seeing as I said what I want and expressed my view on this. |
I'm going to have to disagree with the OP here.
If you think a lot of the newest hacks that are in the progressing hacks section have no creativity, think about who the hacks were made by. I'm pretty sure we have lots of Ten year olds on this forum that decided to give hacking a try right :3? But thats not the point. I think Rom Hacking is just starting to get fired up.. When was the last time a hack made it to the Showcase? 2 days (That would be my hack) :P Also all the ideas being taken up is not a very good excuse for lack of creativity. I can think of at least 6 ideas that would make great hacks due to those ideas being diffrent from the others. Creating a hack is the same as telling a story. You've got your plot, your middle, and your ending. Some people may read (play) your story (hack), some may not, but with each new person that plays a new hack, something inside of them may make them want to start hacking on thier own. Rom Hackers create other Rom Hackers right? |
I gotta agree with Psychicboy. I am by no means an expert hacker, but when i first started visiting this forum, there was so much creativity. Now it seems to be filled with pretentious little kids who think they will be awesome at hacking... but then dont reaise the commitment it actually requires.
Like i said, i'm being very modest about my talent (if youd call it that), although from an onlooker's point of view, the quality is indeed declining. |
Last year when I first joined, all I see was crapbox scrapbox threads being very active. When they removed scrapbox, activity became slow but hackers got urged to do more in their hacks. Like there was a hack in the scrapbox before that had nothing but an idea and features, and now the hack's creator applied his ideas to the ROM and now...its a good hack! :D
tl;dr: Hacking takes time. Since there is no more scrapbox, activity lessened and hackers got urged to do more in their hacks so their hacks can be accepted. It's not necessarily dying, in-fact its progressing. Well that's my two cents, don't take it for gold or anything. :P |
I hardly see creativity in hacks anymore. Rom Hacking is definitely not dying, but I'm hardly ever seeing a hack that I really want to play anymore. the majority of hacks in the Progressing hack section seems like the same old thing to me. someone makes a storyline, the same thing almost every time, involving a legendary, 8 Gyms, and the evil team. they put a rombase on it to make it look attractive, then post it.
What I'm saying is, most hacks in progressing hacks are just the same thing with edits like the rombase, or the story. nothing really shines in the progressing hacks. nothing that makes me want to play a hack real badly anymore. yet, when I look back at rom hacks in 2008, or 2009, most of them have things that make me want to play them. I think the quality of Rom Hacking is decreasing. |
I really agree. I won't name any hacks, but some of them are just plain horrible. I hope quality will increase in the future.
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We need to change that, I hope.
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This forum can change. If the people cooperates, that is. |
This seems to be an age old debate. Personally I haven't seen much difference in the flux. Every once in a while a new good hack is out and everyone flocks to it. It seems that its been a while since a new hack with this caliber has caught the attention of anyone. Well certainly if you look deep enough you will find there is that gem somewhere. That in my mind being Sienna currently as the gem of the forum. Also don't just stay here to look for good hacks, look all around the net and you will find some.
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I think my hack can compete with Sienna, I just need a bit more time to make others realise the same thing :3 |
to me the standout hacks on this site hands down is Sienna & Light Platinum.
Now on subject, I do agree with some of the reasons stated for the time I been here which I think is a little over a year I haven't seen lots of hacks that stood out to me, there is only 2 hacks that really stand out and those are what I stated. Though I found one still in the progressive forum that to me I'm finding some interest in it. Hope to see some more standout hacks in the future. |
Honestly, there's only one hack currently, that I really want to play. One hack that I like alot. That's Identity. It doesn't have a rombase to conceal any mapping, it looks amazing without one. as well as a great storyline and good mapping, great scripting.
back in 2008 (yes, I realize I wasn't around back then), and 2009, there were lots of amazing gems. more of them than now. now, all there is is 1 or 2. |
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Now back to the main point. I was just stating an example. ;P |
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I think the OP is...kinda right. Kinda. There are a lot of hacks there that I really enjoy, and a lot that just really bore me (that goes for the showcase too). BUT! It is possible that a lot of hackers could be trying to hide most of the storyline and such, as they may want the player to find out for him/her self. |
I haven't played sienna because I don't want to download Winrar or one of those rar opener programs that give you viruses and are annoyinh but I'll say I had a pretty fun time playing Rijon Adventures and Turquoise.
Honestly, I think Rom Hacking has lost some of its populace to Game Development as there is more room for creation in Game Dev. I mean look at Torzach, potential as an All-Star HACK, now where is it? The Game Development Showcase. That's where. |
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Anyway, I hate this argument completely. As far as I'm concerned ROM Hacking is getting better and better daily. Everyone who says 'bro ROM hacking is dying and needs to get better' is trying to hide their own inadequacies by pointing the blame at others. ...now, that's just my opinion and has been ever since people started this argument. |
Here is my opinion on the subject, and a thoughtful idea:
If you define "dying" as "the overall quality of hacks is diminishing", then I would agree that it is dying. However, if you define it as "the popularity of hacking is dying", then I would disagree, and I think it's awesome that there are a ton of people learning to hack! I first came to PC about 7 months ago, (I think?) and the hacking scene has changed a little since I've been around. Today, there seems to be many more new hacks being created which suggests that people are extremely interested in hacking. At the same time, I think most of these people don't know what they're getting into, and this results in a generic hack that dies after little time. I was guilty of this when I first joined PC. I had read around this forum without becoming a member, and then I thought it would be awesome to make my own starting hack and post it for everyone to see! To my dismay, I quickly discovered that it takes a lot more work than I expected, and my first attempt died. Now, I have put together a much better hack simply because I gathered myself and did a lot of experimenting and learning. My proposition: Perhaps, to solve this problem of the great number of "blah" hacks, ROM hackers of this community should form like 10 primary teams of hackers (just throwing a number out there). Each team would create a hack of its own, of course. We could also balance the number of experienced, and intermediate skilled hackers on each team. This way, each team would be capable of producing a high-quality hack, would it not? Everyone would feel included, too. This would eliminate the ridiculous number of team threads, and stop people from joining more than one team. When people join that many teams, they're work can become low-quality and inefficient. In theory, this system would transform the high number of low-quality hacks into a low number of high-quality hacks! Here's the way I view a community system like this: The Good: This system would eliminate the number of "blah" hacks, and ensure that we are creating high-quality hacks as a community. It could create a better sense of synergy throughout the PC ROM hackers. People will learn more from each other because you will always be connected to your team which will have all levels of hackers in it. The very unorganized system of the "Team Discussions" threads will become organized. The Bad: Naturally, people want to start they're own hacks, and they won't want to work in a big team. It could be difficult to coordinate teams. It would be hard to determine who gets to be in charge of teams. So what do you think? I am having a hard time coming up with "the bad" simply because I thought of the idea, and it's hard to think of bad things for ideas you come up with... Anyway, let's discuss this. |
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So I started a new hack lately and will keep stuff about it sheer up until I REALLY have progress to show. I'll be doing everything alone, and moving slowly, for the sake of quality and not quantity. People like Spherical Ice and hacks like Azure Horizons show those exact traces of clarity in ROM Hacking. Anyway, end of rant. OT: What I think is dying is time for hackers to do their hobby. Most of us who started earlier realize after some time that they have less and less time to work on their precious hacks. And that's how my cookie crumbles. I'm one limited git in this situation. Finally, about SiennaL I think it's the best hack showcased for 2010 so far (not the best of all times, though, sorry) and I'm even happier about Harry and Max because I see they do things about their hacks that others don't: they get deeper than deep, outsaide the box, and even though the original nintendo formula is maintained, I don't give a brownie whether it's original or not, in that case. It's one hell of a jewel-in-the-rough-box and it's certainly good to play. Have fun trying to be picky, everyone. |
Maybe mods could be less lenient on hacks they let in to the progressing section. Some hacks there are complete and utter pieces of *bad word*. No offense to any of these hacks authors but they should not post them so fast and work on getting them ready. Maybe some more rules should be implemented in order to help siphon out some of these hacks with low quality. Also maybe its just me but standards have changed. I remember in '07 that I was new and every hacked looked awesome since the seen was way different, and I mean waaaayyyy different. Hackers were either in the know or outcasted scrapbox thread creators. Hacks which "made it" had to have some skills and mods then just said no when they felt a hack did not deserve to be recognized. (meaning that they new quality from others...). Also there was NO progressing hacks section meaning you had to have quality to get it moved up, you had to have progress and you had to have skill.
Times have changed though and on this site there are indeed still good hacks. Just look around. :) |
How about a hack rating system? We could have a "New Hacks" section, and every time a new hack is posted there, everyone who sees the thread will vote, and if it receives a score of say... 5/10 or higher, after a decent amount of votes, it will be moved to progressing hacks. If the score is less than 5/10, the thread will be closed, and whoever made the thread can repost it after 3 days. This gives them plenty of time to think about what's wrong with the hack, and will keep that section of the forums from being flooded with repeat hacks that haven't been improved upon enough.
I think this idea would actually work really well. What are the mods' opinions on this? You'd have to make it so every thread in that section automatically has a poll for us to vote 1-10 on the hack though, or just make the poll a specific part of the posting guidelines. |
The main one I see for "dying" is that many hacks are not being finished... either people run out of ideas or can not figure out how to fix an existing problem.
I don't think the quality is diminishing by any means... |
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to make their own hack. I definitely don't want a team. I want to do ROM hacking myself, for example, and I'm sure there's a lot more people who want to do that. I don't think It'd work. D: |
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To be honest, I think having a "Brainstorming" section instead of a thread would kinda help, buut it brings us back to what the Scrapbox created - tons of SPAM threads. And even less quality. But then people would have a thread that had rated ideas, and criticism before being posted as a proper hack, so they can easily improve their ideas from the start, instead of making something with poor quality and releasing that straight away. |
Maybe once a Thread is approved by mods, let the community have a chance to approve it, and if not then it gets closed and can be re-submitted when the hacker fels ready, that cuts ouut the spam, and lets everyone have a say.
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I really agree, it will minimize the amount of spamhacks out there.
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Surely that'd just be giving the members moderator powers? If the members are (hypothetically) knowledgeable enough to know what should an shouldn't be accepted (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying some of us don't), surely they would've have been noticed and modded?
Anyway, I don't think the hacking scene is dying at all. I just think people are rushing in and want the fame more than anything. If people don't spend some time working before posting there hacks, maybe we'll have a nicer selection. Perhaps a rule in which progress up to, say, the first gym, or the equivalent (say, 10% progress?), it can be approved. I dunno if that'd be pushing the restrictions of Progressing Hacks so much so that it's the Hacks Showcase, but, I'm not sure. Any suggestions with the Scrapbox or something similar will most probably be ignored by the way, because it was failure (not trying to talk on behalf of the moderators, mind). |
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to be fair the showcase should be for COMPLETED hacks, as its a showcase.. although that will never happen, But Spherical Ice, your idea was probably best.
either way, i wasnt saying give the Members moderator powers, because the mods would have the first say. |
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Which is why the quality check idea should be considered?
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Anyway, this has changed into a 'noobs must die we want to be best' thread and is now just pitching ideas for new sections. We eradicated the Scrapbox for a reason, there's currently no plans to change up the sections at all and that's that. I'll just close this now because the topic has changed completely. Closed~ |
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