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I don't have "complete and total knowledge of a mythical beast", nor have i ever said anything that related, but when it comes to dragons, i know A LOT, definetly more than you!
Again, this disscussion is not pokemon related so... |
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look at the quote above, is speaks only in metaphores, that's not right. You speak in metaphors all the time like "They Are!" and "They Always!" it speaks as if you know everything for sure, when most of the above quote is based on OPINION not absolute fact. Also, i feel you're becoming kinda hostile. Quote:
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Okay, I think everyone should relax for a bit...
There's one question I'd like to ask you, draggy. How many of the things you know about dragons are based on the assupmtion that they exist? I got myself a nice definition of 'dragon' here: A mythical monster traditionally represented as a gigantic reptile having a lion's claws, the tail of a serpent, wings, and a scaly skin. Offtopic: By the way, Xilfer, a metaphor is something different XD |
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If this list makes you agree, then I guess everything´s fine. If you don´t, you can request a revote. I don´t know much about the old Den, but it´s now a club for Dragons, not just Dragon-typed Pokémon. We don´t judge on looks, but on wether a Pokémon is a Dragon or not. And we spend a lot of time and though into debating about that. With that being said, darn, it feels like everyone´s in some kind of fight. |
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2) Sorry but this is a very bad definition, I'll tell you why: 3) Mythical... sure, but monster..., I wouldn't go that far, cause word monster defines absolutely nothing. There are so many objects that are defined as monster, so that really doesn't help you decide what something is by just calling it a monster. That's like trying to explain someone a horse, and just calling it an animal... 4) No, not all dragons are gigantic, sure, some are big, maybe even gigantic, but definetly not all of them. 5) Wait, "lion's claws"? And where's a difference between lion's and reptile's, or bird's claws? A claw is a claw. But true, all dragons have claws, as all reptiles have claws. 6) Again, "the tail of a serpent"... Really it looks to me like the person who wrote that did his best to make dragons seem like a fusion of other animal's parts. A tail is a tail, and all reptiles have tails. 7) I think I said this earlyer. Not all dragons have wings, nor did all of them fly. There are dragons that lived in caves, underground burrows, in sea, etc. that didn't have wings. They lost them by evolving, as they didn't need it. 8) Again "scaly skin". O.o If it's a reptile, it'll have scaly scin, what else kind of skin should it have? |
Terribly sorry for the inactivity, all. My computer died, so I'm not sure when I'll next be on. It shouldn't be too long since I need a computer for school anyway.
It seems I've left at a bad time... |
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Let me ask you all those who oppose to Altaria being a dragon, why is Altaria in the same egg group as Kingdra, Dratini, etc. who are considered dragons? Aren't they dragons as well? Let me remind you, if they can interbreed, they are supposed to belong to the same species, biologically speaking. Isn't more than an enough proof that Altaria is a dragon regardless of its physical appearances? |
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If I'm not mistaken, and I'm not, Tyranitar, Gyarados, Charizard and Aerodactyl were in all previous Dens. They're no dragon typed, yet they were in the club. If a Pokemon that isn't Dragon typed can be in the den, why wouldn't a pokemon that isn't dragon typed be discluded if it obviously isn't a dragon... http://b.domaindlx.com/cg103006/sky_wondermails/images/334.jpg If this is a Dragon to you, you should get your eyes checked. |
Being Dragon-typed is a heavy-weighing argument on decideing wether a Pokémon is a Dragon or not, but it's never final. The very moment you add a Pokémon into the group that isn't Dragon-typed, the club isn't for Dragon-types, but for Dragons. Logically, this means Dragon-typed Pokémon who we believe aren't Dragons can be removed through a voting.
Also, the egg groups don't mean much either. Farfetch'd can breed with Dewgong... And Ekans would be a Dragon too. |
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It's so hard not to take a side in this argument. :O |
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And my response to you is: if you think Altaria isn't a Dragon apparently you can't read. |
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No matter how you look at it, Altaria is a Bird. Name one Dragon-like trait it has. |
So if Game-freak says oddish is a Fire type, you'd see it as a fire pokemon?
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That's probably not the best example, Draggy :/
But indeed, if GameFreak made, let's say, Swellow a Dragon-type, would you buy that? Probably not, right? Altaria is a bird. Only birds have beaks, and dragons are reptiles. Which aren't birds. |
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Also, another fact to be taken into account is that Altaria is the only Pokemon to be Flying and Dragon egg groups. I think Nintendo wanted Altaria to be an exception to the stereotypical set of Dragons. It's true that egg groups are just mechanics of the game, but they provide a basis for linking Pokemon together. |
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Could we maybe now start discussing the 5th generation Dragon types? The games are going to be out soon and i'm sure everyone here has seen the pokémon already. |
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What I'm trying to say is, a bird is not a Dragon, and anything with a beak is a bird. But, for the last time, you can request a revote. It's not up to any of us what Pokémon are in the Den, it's up to our majority.
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I will request a re vote but I think it will be no use, cause you guys will just say no. SO yeah, I'm requesting a re vote and I vote YES
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I would like a revote on the altaria
can we by any chance disscuss sceptile??? it looks dragon-ish to me more like garchomp style though |
I love the way my post was absolutely ignored.
I say we go ahead for a re-vote. |
You're not supposed to vote here publicly.
Send PM to tkallab with your vote. BTW, tkallab my vote is coming to you right away... @treecko0 No. We already discussed this, Sceptile is a lizard, and there's nothing dragonic (adjective used to adress something dragon related) about it. |
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--------------------------------------- Is Altaria a Dragon or not? Our current debate and vote. The Dragon/Flying Pokémon Altaria was removed from the Dragon's Den some months ago because the majority of Dragon's Den members voted him not a Dragon. Recently, this decision has been questioned, and for this reason, there will be voted again. Here are the official rules: Every voter will send me a PM (not VM) The majority gets their way In case of a draw I will disregard my own vote The minority will accept their loss Let the votes come in! |
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Look, we discussed this already, Sceptile isn't a dragon, and you won't be able to find any arguements, cause there aren't any. Some Dragon moves that Sceptile can learn isn't an arguement at all! Quote:
I strongly disagree with this! Why should your vote be any less important?! I say, if it's a draw, the situation remains the same. That's perfectly logical. |
Wow. o.O I think everybody needs to calm down! Let's go to another topic while we are voting. We don't need to be ganging up on each other. We are all dragon lovers here. So someone please make another topic.
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Which Dragon pokemon (not only Dragon type) should be strongest (in any way you want) in your opinion?
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I think I'll leave the Den. I have little time to post and school will start for me in a couple weeks, and I have to get ready, so farewell...
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@Hijax
Sorry, but the rules of pokemon groups say you need to be a member to post in a group... And a lot of pokemon are dragon egg group that have no resemblance to dragons, such as: Ekans, Arbok, Magikarp, Treeko line, Seviper, Zuruggu, Zuruzukin, so this arguement can be easily used against Sceptile. @angel Fine, I'm OK with that too, but I don't think tkallab's vote should be disregarded. |
No, Hijax is a member. I'm afraid I overlooked you when I was adding the new members, Hijax. Sorry! I'll ad you the list right now.
Also, Draggy, Pokémon in the Dragon egg group that aren't Dragons but evolve into them are justified, of course. -------------------------------------------------------- Notice: All votes need to be pm'ed to me. If you have posted yours in the thread earlier, you will still have to pm it too, because I'm not gonna search for everyone's votes later. |
@Dragonite Me either.
Bye Tony! |
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Let me just break this down to you... -.-"
None of you decide what a Dragon is. There is no proof any such thing exists... In the topic of pokémon, Game Freak decide what a dragon is - not you... I see no point in voting either... And where the hell did tyranitar come from? o.O I can't wait for you all to complain about Reshiram and Zekrom. Neither look Stereotypically like Dragons... Finally got that off my chest... |
Dragonite should be the strongest dragon, I think. One: because it's big. Two: because it's the original dragon. Three: because the thought of a pokémon that cute being the strongest is a nice thought.
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Favorite Dragons? Rayquaza,Giratina,Flygon, the Lati Twins,Garchomp, Dragonite,Kingdra,Dialga,Palkia,the list is too long!XD Should Garchomp and/or Salamence be Uber? GARCHOMP.DEFINATELY.Salamence is...Meh. Lance or Clair? Lance.Erika is right, the cape is ugly.Also, is she wearing a...Power Ranger suit?!?XD Which Dragon looks best Shiny? Flygon,the Lati Twins, Charizard and Rayquaza.Flygon and the L Twins are so beutiful in gold, and black is pretty awesome. Giratina is pretty cool too. Giratina: 'Origin' Form or 'Another' Form? ORIGIN!The reason I beat the game is to get the G Orb and Decimate the E4 without Bertha giving me Trouble! Whats your Dragon Team? Erm...None yet XD. Dragons are hard to find in HG/SS! Should Tyranitar be a Dragon? Definatley.that would explain TTar having Dragon Dance. What is your favorite legendary Dragon? Giratina. Soooo.... Now that I answered the questions,can I Join? :). ¬RulerArceus |
Welcome Ruler Arceus.
I'm sure that tkallab, the co-owner, will add you to the list soon. Now, if you see couple of us in a strong disscussion, don't be discouraged to join in "the fight", cause we do this quite often here... XD |
I'm joining! :3
Favorite Dragons? Dragonite, Altaria, Palkia, Giratina, Garchomp, and so on. Should Garchomp and/or Salamence be Uber? Of course, they're pretty cool. Lance or Clair? Clair, I prefer female dragon trainers. xD Which Dragon looks best Shiny? I really like the shiny form of Altaria. Giratina: 'Origin' Form or 'Another' Form? Origin form is epic! Whats your Dragon Team? Too many. :3 Should Tyranitar be a Dragon? It doesn't look like one. What is your favorite legendary Dragon? Palkia. XD |
Which Dragon pokemon (not only Dragon type) should be strongest (in any way you want) in your opinion? Thats too many conflicting opinions you have just given me,Dragoniteuser! I'd say Rayquaza.The Lati's a close second, with Dragonite getting third place. ¬RulerArceus |
Sorry, didn't think it'd get confusing...
But i agree, Rayquaza SHOULD be the strongest, it's just so epic! http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/2/21775/767349-rayquaza_super.jpg I mean, if this doesn't say: Power, I don't know what does! |
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But yeah, Rayquaza is the Leader of the Hoenn Trio,wich explains both why it's a dragon type and why it's so awesome<3. |
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In a way, we do decide what Dragons are. The Dragon type is an Element, assigned to some Dragons. But there are other Dragons that do not have that typing, the best example being Charizard, the very definition of a Western Dragon. So we add some Dragons to the list. In the same spirit, Altaria is hardly a Dragon. Because of that reason, he was voted out of the Den long ago. But because he's a Dragon Type, he's still a topic of discussion and should be added in the Den, Dragon or not. The voting is to make things happen democratically to make sure the majority is happy. Moreover, it's the way to do this I got used to :/ Tyranitar was already in the Den when I got here, but he was a subject to discussion some time ago and I think I'm the cause that he's still here, even though I was for removing him at the end... Can't wait for Reshiram and Zekrom either... In my opinion, they're both just Dragons, really cool ones at that too... Also, please don't forget to vote, people! I'll send pm reminders around too, I guess :/ |
And when excatly is the voting over?
The sooner the results are in, the sooner will all this end. |
I'll figure that out when I stop being ill. But there are only a few people who have voted this far. So I'll go pm a lot of members later, and then we'll see.
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Are the results in????????
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Oh, I'm sorry, not yet. There are still people who need to vote, and it really wouldn't be fair to continue without their votes, because they expressed their opinions very clearly in the thread. I said I was going to pm them, but I haven't done that either, because I need to figure out tho whom I send the pm' then, and I haven't found the time to do that because of IRL stress.
I sincerely apologize, but it's gonna take just a little bit longer. I'm gonna try to make some time today, I've decided. |
At the beginning of the show/games I thought Dragonite should be the powerfulest dragon. Now I'm not really sure, so I'm sticking with Dragonite.
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http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/4756/dragonitec.gif
Well i always said picture says a thousand word! |
I agree with you. A picture does say a thousand words. That's a moving picture so its more. Dragonite is one of the strongest dragons in the Pokemon games. Remember Lance's Dragonite? How hard that thing was to beat?
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Lance's Dragonite was hacked. He had Light Screen, iirc.
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So...
Dragonite can learn light Screen, don't know why waste move slot though... :/ But it's true Dragonite is VERY strong, i always use Dragonite, and it's always the strongest Pokemon I have... |
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Oh, sorry, I meant Barrier. Which Dragonite can't learn. I'm calling Hax here >:(
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Can I join? Love Dragon Pokemons. :D
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i'm sure lance's moveset for dragonite was
Outrage Light screen Wing attack ??? don't know the last one long since i played fire red sorry i wasn't active internet sucks :| |
Well, we can just check Bulbapedia or Serebii then, can't we?
In Generation I, his dragonite has Agility, Slam, Barrier (hax) and Hyper Beam... So yeah, I'm pretty sure he owns a GameShark. @VarimathraS, I'll add you to the list. |
IMA BACK!
Oh! people, i thought you were gonna take better care of this place while i was gone! look at this mess! it's pretty close to the bottom this place is! HAHA!
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Haha, don't know if I'm allowed to do this, especially as I'm probably not going to see the replies, but who cares? Here's a topic:
Are you going to have a dragon pokémon in your team on Black / White? Before I get accused of being hypocritical with my spoilerisation of all Gen V, you don't have to mention any names of pokémon :D Have fun guys. |
You ruined my comeback! NVM.
Yeah, if i even bother to get B/W, I probably will have it someday, so yeah, hey did you know that they've already got B/W here! they show the advert here all the time, and there's this cereal called froot loops wich gives away B/W games plus an extra 3DS. |
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I'm going to improvise as I run through Unova. Since I don't know anything about the game other than the starters and the region name, it's just going to have to be that way. :P |
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Yes, beacause Haxorus is pretty awesome. ~RulerArceus |
~I'd like to join please!~
Giratina: 'Origin' Form or 'Another' Form? I like it's Origin Form better. It looks better to me and is stronger. |
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You're supposed to either welcome me or Phear me!!! tsk, ugh! is no one surprised to see me back here XD.
Hey, where's the real spice of this club? tkallab and Draggy? where'd they go? soup land? LOL New topic: ARGUMENT TIME! LETS MAKE AN ARGUMENT FOR ME COMING BACK :D The Eon Twins Should we keep the eon twins as dragons? are they true dragons? or are they just some kind of glider thing? you decide! Sorry if we did this before, it's all i could think of. |
We're not even done with Altaria (thanks to me BTW) and the Eon twins are absolutely dragons, in my and probably most others' opinions.
I'm currently Nuzlocking Black, so I don't have any control over wether I get any Dragon Pokémon, but if I get one, I'll use it. Also, I'll add you, Vaporeon7. Welcome to the Dragon's Den! Anyway, I'm finally finally FINALLY gonna take some actio regarding our Altaria voting. Everyone, expect a PM later. |
I disagree with altaria as a dragon type
the only thing it has thats dragon are moves and stats but thats not what makes it a dragon for starters, a beak what dragon in fairytales or strories has a beak? no talons? it has no talons or claws except its chicken feet all other dragon pokemon are superior to it it's known as the blue PHOENIX pokemon phoenix's are birds it evolves from a bird type a FLYING type gym leader uses it and finally Drake is the ONLY elite four/gym leader who uses one which is dragon and that pretty much wraps up my point its not a dragon fair is fair. |
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*Tackles Xil* Welcome back. XD
I feel stupid asking this but who are the Eon twins? Welcome Vaporeon7. :3 |
I think of Altaria as a Dragon type.
My reason beside of its in game typing is that Lance owned one in HeartGold/SoulSilver. Think about it. He owned other dragon-like Pokemon such as Aerodactyl, Gyarados and Charizard despite their non-dragon typing. This shows that Altaria's dragon typing is not the only reason he owns it. They had other dragon Pokemon he could have: Kingdra, Flygon but no he has a Altaria meaning it must be a Dragon. |
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Latias and Latios are known as the Eon twins because, according to their Pokédex entries, they are Eon Pokémon. But I don't think anyone has any reason to have a discussion over them, sorry Xilfer :)
Anyway, I sent everyone a PM, please read and reply to it asap. |
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He never even used it, ever! |
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LOOK HERE! AND SCROLL DOWN TO SECOND BATTLE! |
Yeah, you're right..., sorry, didn't see that.
But that still doesn't make it a dragon... |
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Latios and Latias, don't worry about it, i know loads of others who made the same mistake, we call them that because they are both the "Eon" pokemon, it's a custom fan name i suppose, i've never officially heard it. well, i'm not really up to date on the new members but hey! welcome Vapo7, enjoy your stay here. |
^^ Good. We missed you too.
Oh, ok. Thank you guys. ^^ Even if Lance had Altaria it doesn't make it a dragon to us. That's what the creators chose for its type. |
Me:Altaria looks like a flying bird hidden by clouds. Ethan:Um...How does that make it a Dragon? Me:Exaclty. See?This short conversation pretty much sums up why its not a dragon. CASE CLOSED. ~RulerArceus |
I don't really understand why Altaria isn't a dragon. Nintendo mas made it a Dragon type, and no one can change it. I know that the obvious answer that I'd get is that this is a club for dragons, not Dragon types. Tell me, if Forretress was made as a Bug/Steel type, would you argue against that?
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Actually, we tried arguing against Forretress being a Bug in the Bug Fan Club, but we came to the conclusion that he was some kind of a bagworm surrounded by metal.
Anyway, a lot of people have sent me their votes, I'm happy this time we get more than, like, five votes :) I'll wait a bit more to see if more members are still gonna vote. after two days without anymore answers, I'll announce the results. |
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I wouldn't say Forretress sucks. But, that's not a dragon topic, so I'll leave my opinion at that. Quote:
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Double post much needed for activity. New topic: Which legendary dragon would you give a pre-evolution to? |
I haven't posted in forever, but i have been following along via e-mail. I don't want to be kicked out, but just for future reference, i do understand what's going on.
on topic: I would give one to Rayquaza. Rayquaza is epic right now, so a pre-evolved form would be terrifyingly cute or just as epic, but at a miniature scale. As for the topic of the eons, I have no idea why they're called the eon "twins." In the movie, Latios is older, and Latias, therefore, (waiting for the "Captain Obvious" remark) is younger. Even in most fan-fics, they aren't twins. I have actually never seen that. I have heard people refer to them as that, but never seen it in typing. |
In the movie, they are indeed just brother and sister. But you can say 'twins' in one syllable, which is of course much shorter ;)
And in the games, they can be found at the same level. But anyway, it's just a fandom term, like [email protected] And considering pre-evolutions, I'd give Kyurem one for now, while he doesn't have a backstory yet. If no one sents me anymore vothes today, the results will be announced tomorrow! |
I would give Giratina a pre-evolution, seeing as how you can get one as an egg (technically), and it is at level one. I guess the same goes for Dialga and Palkia.
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Actually no...
If you check the movie more closely, you'll see that Latios is Latias's older brother. Which means thy're not twins, but they're not a pair either... And the pre-evo... I'd like a baby [email protected] |
Can I join?
My favorite Dragons: Dragonite, Salamence Which dragon looks best shiny? Either Gyrados or Dragonite. What's your drgon team? in the sig. |
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But to the topic... I'd give Rayquaza a pre-evolution. I think that would be epic. |
Are we really arguing about fandom terms..?
First I started thinking of arguments why 'Twins' and 'Pair' are correct terms, but really, they are just names given by the fandom to show that those Pokémon have something in common. So basically, any term is right, as long as it reflects that. Anyway, didn't I mention something about announcing the results? Why, yes I did. --------------------------------------------------------------- Out of the 22 votes I got in, which I believe is a record amount of votes sent in the history of the Dragon's Den, at least Version 4, there was a majority of 12 votes, meaning that the two opinions almost got the same amount of votes. It really was a close call for the winning side. Now then, the winning side was... Spoiler:
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Zapdos is right.
Those were the father and the son. @tkallab Told ya. New voting isn't gonna change anything, but i think that now we can finaly give it a rest... |
Since the votes were pretty close, I suggest you just state that the position of Altaria as a dragon is disputed. Imposing the will of the majority is tyranny, not democracy.
If this was the parliament, something like this would be passed only with 3/4th majority anyway. :P |
Here's what you said:
Sure, the democrats got the majority of votes, but it was pretty close, so let's vote again XD Quote:
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But yeah, this is very democratic. And if you're going to call on rule 3, it was the minority who requested the voting... So yeah. I say we've concluded the whole Altaria mess with this. But it isn't fair to say that it'll always stay this way, because there might be a shift in opinions later on. Let's just say this can't be discussed anymore until september or something, in half a year. |
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